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from tuneman7 Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 01:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Jon knows the worst of it I'm afraid. He knows what happened in Macau. He knows what happened to Merry Berg. He also knows about the rife abuses of all sorts. He struck me as an honest guy at one point, thought he had balls. But the dude pretty much whimped out. I guess he thinks of himself as a big fish in a very small and strange pond. These people have to be in horrific violation of their own conscience. So this massive denial and overcompensating on the other end, is a way of I suppose dealing with it. The "comparative. ... " whatever it is, is pretty much nonsense. You can't compare two things you know not very much about. I remembered the guy to be quite down on himself in terms of his own abilities etc. ... When I told him that I was going to leave and go to University, he said, "You should do it." Also the guy knew that the whole money thing was a sham as well, and railed on the group's stupidity in not having any sort of financial planning etc. ... Anyhow, the issue is, everyone is going to get old and die, and before they do they're going to have a conversation with themselves. I can't imagine this guy is going to feel very cool about himself. People distract themselves from thinking about the inevitability of that conversation. Nonsense. (reply to this comment)

from true Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 17:04 (Agree/Disagree?) i think its for jon amstrdam and i belive i lived with him at the HCS he was always a geek and slob no girls like him and im sure his dad did him in his ass because his dad if a fag too.... and he likes young girls makes them have sex with the lie that this is what jesus wants you to do...... your whole family is full of sickos (reply to this comment)

from Phoenixkidd Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 17:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Anyone have a pic or know a link to a pic of this guy?-- former Victor here! (reply to this comment)

from Jon is not afraid Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 17:36 (Agree/Disagree?) "We are not afraid." - No your are complete pussies "We post with our names in full, not hiding behind endless initials and multiple aliases" -you trying to be ironic? Which TF have you been living in? "and we will not go away" -You have to actually be present before you can go away, your Dad is an expert at going away, running and hiding like any great King would. (reply to this comment)

From monger Tuesday, June 14, 2005, 18:24 (Agree/Disagree?) "We post with our names in full, not hiding behind endless initials and multiple aliases" It's ironic indeed that he has the audacity to goad people over using initials to protect their privacy, while he himself is using a pseudonym. His legal name is Christian Kelly, not "Jon-A".(reply to this comment)

from ameliaus Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 21:17 (Agree/Disagree?) {Jon} It is a wonderful thing that you can capsulize and set aside your years of unjustified abuse. This is a difficult psychological feat, and though you call it easy (anyone can do it); in fact it's hard. Anyway this process and forgiveness have enabled you to stay with the family and perpetuate your father's work. Well good, in your eyes. In your myconclusion article you spoke of that forgiveness as key to your present stance, yet in bringing up personal attacks and threats of dissolution of TF, you are livid - without insight, fearful and certainly without graciousness or forgiveness. My conclusion is that assaults against defenseless children and teens are forgiveable but verbal threats and insults against adults are not, in your eyes. Is the the criteria in when it occurred and to whom it is directed? (reply to this comment)

from xolox Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 12:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Tell Jon, that when/if someone finally offs that STD ridden father of his, that his new found capacity to adopt a "forgive and move on" strategy for coping with wrongs perpetrated against him will come in handy. Nice how that comes back to bite the ass, huh? You may also comunicate to Jon, that demanding from (Peter's) victims, apologies for a man whose ruined thousands of young lives and severely cramped the style of hundreds of others, who claims apologies have been made, (1. apology, an admission of guilt. 2. Where's the compensation? not all of us stand to inherit ridiculous amouts "tithe" money.) is INA-FUCKING-PROPRIATE! Tell Jon, that when he's done sucking Jesus' dick, he can move on to mine! (reply to this comment)

From true Sunday, June 12, 2005, 13:49 (Agree/Disagree?) word up then he can suck my dick too dude the family is full of cock suckers for real.... true(reply to this comment)

from Interesting? Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 11:27 (Agree/Disagree?) "When your self-concept has been shredded, when you have been deeply injured and made to feel the injury was all your fault, when you look for approval to those who can not or will not provide it—you play the role assigned to you by your abusers." http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/andrew_vachss.html (reply to this comment)

from Skanska Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Jon A.'s real name is Christian Kelly. He is one of the most frequent pro-COG editors of the Wikipedia articles on this group. He uses the screen name "Audiofree". An article about him can be found here: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Christian_Kelly (reply to this comment)

from true Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 09:06 (Agree/Disagree?) jon you are not right in the head i my mother is in the family but if she was killed so that the evil that is the family is stoped i will be happy i know your dad peter and from what i rember he was a nice guy but im shure if i could replay lioke a video his life with what i know now i would say he is guilty and he may not think what he did is wrong bucause every one in the family is fucked in the head true (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 08:40 (Agree/Disagree?) From this way this is written it sounds like you are Jon. I have no intention of killing your father, but I’m afraid the cold hard truth is that he does deserve to die. He knew the extent of the abuse that was happening in the 80' s probably more than anyone else did, and instead of trying to stop it he (and his heartless lover) did his best to cover it up and keep the world from finding out the horrors that took place in the so-called Family of Love. Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were murderers, but they never claimed to be saints. Peter is pretending to be a “faucet” of God’s life giving words, while instead he is a conduit for ignorance, abuse and unspeakable evil. Who is worse: someone who is openly evil, or someone who pretends to be good and all the while is perpetrating ghastly horrors? There is no doubt in my mind that if anybody ever deserved to die, Peter Amsterdam does. But simply death is too good for him: real justice would see him forced to listen to the stories of each of his victims (which would no doubt take months), before dying a torturous death. Jon, you won’t be able to hide from the truth forever. You may be able to continue deceiving yourself until you’re more than 40 years old, like my parents did, but waking up will be all the more difficult when you are that age. You know in your heart that the Family is abusive. You know that Berg is not a prophet – how many of his hundreds of prophecies came true? You know that he was a pervert. What would you call anyone else who has sexual relations with his daughter and granddaughter? Your Father knows that Berg was a pervert, but he still perpetrates the foolish notion that he was “God’s endtime prophet”. I could go on and on, but why should I? Take a look around. If you start listening to all sides of the story, the truth will become clear pretty quickly. (reply to this comment)

From di Monday, June 13, 2005, 04:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said.(reply to this comment)

From ErikMagnusLehnsher Sunday, June 12, 2005, 19:56 (Agree/Disagree?) "From this way this is written it sounds like you are Jon." It looks like a basic summary of his myconclusion statement. http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/28/jon-a-speaks-out/(reply to this comment)

From Nancy Monday, June 13, 2005, 06:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Unbelievable! Can someone please copy that and paste it into an article here. It needs to be perserved. I know I'm not the only one who noticed that article and what critical information it contains. Here we have Steve Kelly's own kid admitting he was subjected to the abusive treatment of not one but several victor programs. Regardless of how he a deluted cult member characterizes the treatment, it's huge!!! Then, he also admits his father, the leader of the cult and supposed perfect model of a loving father, abandoned him to go live with Berg. I mean wow! Somebody put that man on the stand. Cross examination unnecessary. He basically hand delivers you every confirmation you need in his own words. Unbelievable! This cult really is not as smart as they would have you believe. I personally think myconclusion is better exposure of this dangerous cult than movingon. The poor education, lack of basic care, the abandonment, the abuse, even the tactics used are all revealed by the words of the current members of this cult on myconclusion. Someone needs to be preserving these articles they write on myconclusion. Someday they will be the best evidence and cooberating evidence of all the cult did to hundreds, no thousands, of children. (reply to this comment)

From Elle Monday, June 13, 2005, 07:58 (Agree/Disagree?) That being said, I wonder how long it will take before the article is mysteriously removed from .(reply to this comment)

From Elle Monday, June 13, 2005, 07:59 (Agree/Disagree?) ... My Conclusion.(reply to this comment)

From no matter Monday, June 13, 2005, 10:24 (Agree/Disagree?) 1/28/2005 Peter Amsterdam’s Son Speaks Out! Name: Jon-A Age: 28 years old, born and raised in The Family Parents: Peter Amsterdam and Abi I have been greatly disturbed by this pointless loss of life. I knew both Angela and Ricky, and still cannot quite comprehend the needless death that took place. It’s not every day someone you knew well was murdered, and rarer still, someone you knew who just four years earlier seemed like a normal individual, change to the point where he’d be willing to take the life of someone as sweet and harmless as Angela. I’m telling you, everyone reading this has done more harm to others through unloving acts than Angela, she was truly an angel. Writing is not something that comes easy for me or that I enjoy doing, but the wish to have my voice heard overrides that difficulty. I’ve been hearing far too long about the “many” vocal former members, and have seen some of their threatening website postings, so I was thrilled that someone put up a site like this, and even more so by the 200+ young people who have stepped forward so far to contribute with their views and condolences. I wanted to add my personal story and views on growing up in the Family, “abuse” in the past, and some thoughts on current claims from our detractors. I would say that my life was not that typical of a young person in the Family. Because of who my parents were, much was expected of me, and as a kid, naturally I resented that fact. I recognize now that it was to be expected. Any child with prominent parents, in any walk of life, has more expected of him than others. When I was two years old, my dad left to work with David Berg and Maria. I didn’t have much contact with him during my childhood years. My mom lived with me (or close by) for most of my life, but due to her leadership responsibilities, I was mostly cared for and raised by nannies and teachers. I lived in World Service Homes till I was a pre-teen, at which time I moved into big school-type situations. I lived in the Philippines “Jumbo”, the Japan “HCS”, the Macao “Teen Home” and subsequent “DTs”, and the Peru “Enterprise”. I also went through my share of disciplinary type programs, such as the “Victor programs”—one in Japan and one in Peru. Both of those were typical of the types of programs used by the Family in some parts of the world in those days. In my opinion, these programs were no more harsh then their counterparts in secular society. There was silence restriction, extra labor and some corporal punishment—all to be expected from that type of system. These programs have not been used in the Family for many years—most likely for good reasons. However, considering that disciplinary boot-camp type programs are still actively used throughout the secular and Christian world today, I fail to see how one could be so up in arms about their previous use in the Family. Sure, some of you may have been in a program like this yourself, but that was a long time ago. I’m sure you’ve “moved on”. I mean really, who can’t take a little silence restriction? Almost everyone’s been spanked, and had to work. You’ll live. I promise. Since these programs are no longer in use in the Family, if based on your experience, you feel it was terribly harmful, why not go and “rescue” the many young people currently in similar programs in secular society? Naturally, no participants especially like these types of intensive boot-camp programs, but it’s a disciplinary style used by some parents for difficult young people. The effectiveness of programs such as these can be debated on either side, but in the end, it’s the parents’, not the young peoples’, decision. The one program I was in that I would consider excessive by way of corporal punishment and hard labor, was the DT (detention teen) program in Macao during the late 80s. There were under ten young people admitted to that program, so its use was certainly not widespread, nor was this program duplicated elsewhere. I know for a fact that half of the participants are still in the Family, and the other half have left. Those who were negatively affected by this program, I personally feel sorry for. I don’t think some of the things that went on were justified or necessary, and I consider it a failed experiment at best. It’s something I feel was unfortunate, but I lived through it, and I’ve put it behind me. And most importantly, I forgave those who I feel wronged me. That’s what I consider the bottom line here: it’s about forgiveness! In life, you have to forgive people, just as you need to be forgiven. I’m sure there’s not one person reading this—including those who are seeking vengeance or retribution—who hasn’t needed forgiveness for something they’ve done. I would say a great percentage of people around the world could find something to criticize in their parents or upbringing. If you choose, there are always people or circumstances to blame for any problem in life. Those who succeed are those who choose to forgive and go on. I am grateful for the life I have led despite any difficulties. Had the dice been rolled differently, I could have been born in the jungles of Africa and had very little opportunity for education. I could have been born into an abusive family and been introduced to a life of drugs and crime at an early age. I could have been born into a wealthy family, where education and success were all that mattered to my parents, with no love whatsoever. For any of the above reasons and more, I could have ended up hating my parents, teachers, or for that matter, anyone who had anything to do with my upbringing—an upbringing that I perceived as not to my liking or choice. When I think of the millions of people in the world who’ve had it so much worse than I have, it makes me thankful. So I will add my voice to the many others in saying I was raised in a loving environment. I had good teachers and loving parents all throughout my childhood. As I mentioned above, in my early teen years I went through things that were not ideal, but I’ve moved on. I choose not to allow one small part of my life to negatively overshadow the rest. Sure, I could dwell on that difficult time in my life, mulling it over again and again, allowing it to grow in my mind, and I’m sure before long, it would be so blown out of proportion that it would take on a life of it’s own. But I chose the path of forgiveness, and because of it I’ve been able to continue to live a life free of bitterness and hatred. It’s a simple choice. Anyone can do it. Before changing topics, I want to pre-state here that I know many young former members have moved on and are well-adjusted members of society, although they may not agree with everything in their upbringing, they don’t spend time thinking and planning how they can destroy the family that raised them. I realize this is the majority, and the below is not questioning you or the life you have chosen. I have many friends that have left our organization, and I am happy they have found a life that suits them. But now I want to address the most recent rhetoric of our detractors: You try and tell me that you are on my side; you say you’re not after me, a “poor and abused” second generation Family member. You say you’re only after a handful of “abusers”. You say you have respect for the decisions and choices I have made, that you have no personal vendetta against me, and that you wouldn’t want to stop me from living a life of service to others. But I say to you: BULLSHIT! Do you take me for a fool with a short memory? You can’t gloss over your previous threats; you can’t make me forget what your true motives have been all along, no matter how you try to spin it now. All one has to do is read previous postings on the “notmovingon.org” to see your true motives. How can I forget previous threats from the likes of your very own “Safe Passage Foundations” public relations officer Daniel Roselle who said in mid 2002, “Prepare yourselves for a future of fighting for your very survival as an organization. The tidal wave will grow. You will be washed away.” If the recent tsunamis showed one thing, it’s that tidal waves are indiscriminate. Your true hope is to wash away the organization—which is all of us! Don’t try and change your story now when you feel it will better suit your own ends. Mark my words, this “washing away” will never come, and don’t you dare threaten us again! Take a good look at myconclusion.com and see the hundreds of young people standing strong! We are not afraid. We post with our names in full, not hiding behind endless initials and multiple aliases as many do on your websites, and we will not go away. We’re your brothers and sisters, and this is what we’ve chosen for our lives. Nothing you say or do will move us. Your “wave” is no tsunami. It may wash around our feet as you try to whip up the media and others for your own ends, but nothing more. I would like to end here with one request: I have heard numerous apologies from the Family and Family leadership for former mistakes and abuses in the past, and I have truly forgiven them. I have not, however, seen any apologies from our detractors. I’m talking here of the few who have threatened our organization for years, and who have mocked and ridiculed us. Some have even threatened my father’s very life. I would like to see an apology from each of you who are guilty of these things, or who have supported and encouraged them. You have stated that the second generation in the Family has never hurt you and that you have no quarrel with us young people. I, however, have a quarrel with you! If I see an apology with changed actions following, I will forgive you. That is what I got from the Family, and it was enough for me. Can you not do the same? —Jon-A Jon-A is a second-generation member of the Family International. (reply to this comment)

From Benz Thursday, October 13, 2005, 04:19 (Agree/Disagree?) There will be no apologies for those guilty of crimes against humanity.... TF - YOU ALONE are responsible for what happened with Ricky, he was your prized product, and damn you to hell for it (reply to this comment)

From moon beam Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 10:08 (Agree/Disagree?) I'll mock and ridicule and critise all I damn well like. Isn't that something, TF have been doing that to the 'system' and "backsliders" since word go, but it's okay for them to do it. wheres they're apologies for it? Whatever! (reply to this comment)

From tudaisy Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 09:52 (Agree/Disagree?) You just proved that you are a fool with a short memory, you contradicted what you said in the beginning with your closing statement. You speek of forgiveness, and understanding towards intentional physical, mental and emotional abuse that you confess to having been a victim of, and for a moment made us belive that you trully had found the path to enlightenment and forgiveness. But then you show a hateful and vengeful lack to tolerance towards people who have never committed a crime or harm to you or anyone for that matter, only because you feel threatened and uncomfortable by individuals who are for the first time in thier lives being allowed to take advantage of the 1st amendment. And an FYI to you, no one is going to apologize because no crime has been committed! (reply to this comment)

From jez Wednesday, June 15, 2005, 15:03 (Agree/Disagree?) would that be 'A' as in arsehole?(reply to this comment)

From true Tuesday, June 14, 2005, 18:55 (Agree/Disagree?) your a fool and you need to wake up and see the truth.......(reply to this comment)

From ErikMagnusLehnsher Sunday, June 12, 2005, 19:58 (Agree/Disagree?) I meant that it looks like someone else read his article and is conveying the main points here...not that he is summarizing his own article.(reply to this comment)

from a couple thoughts Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 08:36 (Agree/Disagree?) I think it's natural for someone to "justify" their biological parents. We all need a sense of love and belonging, and maybe that's why he thinks the way he does. The thing that irks me the most, however, is the way he (and those in the Family) constrast the poverty and abuse we endured in the cult to the fact that millions of people in the world were worst off (such as cannibals in the jungles of Africa or people living in a favela in Rio de Janeiro). This comparision is ridiculous because our parents were poor, deluded and messed up BY CHOICE. Most first gen members came from good families who did not abuse them and gave them every opportunity to go to college and succeed in society. Instead, they chose to take drugs, they chose to join and cult and live a life of poverty, and offer nothing to their children. (reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Sunday, June 12, 2005, 22:07 (Agree/Disagree?) Every single FGA that I personally know did NOT come from a "good family who did not abuse them and give them every opportunity......" They will actually claim they grew up normally then go on to describe: teen pregnancy, teen sexual abuse, spousal abuse, depression, murder, incarceration, mental illness and severe learning disabilities. All these things happened in the lives of the FGA members I know, during their supposedly normal childhoods. Surprisingly, none of them had problems with drugs, just everything else! I maintain that FGAs most all had seriously problematic childhoods which left them particularly vulnerable to cult tactics. That is not to excuse their choice to join a cult and live a selfishly deluded life. I think they are simply continuing the same screwed up life they had as children. Different lifestyle, same mess.(reply to this comment)

from one who wonders Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 06:50 (Agree/Disagree?) How is it that you are Jon's spokesperson? (reply to this comment)

from Removed Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 02:33 (Agree/Disagree?) [Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment)