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from unhappy camper Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 10:25 (Agree/Disagree?) It was very heart renching to read this story of how you endured so much abuse & abuse of every kind, from physical to mental. I was wondering if anyone could take the "shepherds", or Mama herself to court over the "Victor programs". The reason I say Mama Maria is, is that everthing was closely shepherded,in that everything was sent in email to Mama everyday about things that happened in the schools & homes. It must have been Mama's vision or Grandpa's to start the Victor programs. Nobody made that major of a chnage in a home without it coming from the folks home,which could only have been Karen or Grandpa. They knew exactly what was going on. If they didn't they are still responsible for allowing this to happen, as being leaders. If they want the title, they take the responsiblity to. From reading what you said they did to you in the victor's program, I could name quite a few of actual criminal offences, where people if convicted would have to spends years & years in prison over. One thing is obvious, is the abusive spankings they would give you, the lack of no education, child labor, isolation & some human rights taken away. In most countries if your kids miss even 3 days of school the parents can go to jail & get in trouble. I wish that somehow the adults that practised these ruthless, abusive & inhumane forms of "childcare" could have to pay severely for their "sins." I heard that some of the adults where showing delegates from other homes & other countries & the SGA's,how to spank teens. Some teens would get spanked in front of a bunch of adults. I also believe that some adults in TF actualy enjoyed spanking the kids & teens, like a pervert. In some homes the adults would even threaten to spank the SGA's. I heard that this one girl got it at 18. The Family from what I've read about cults. The Family is a cult. All cults make it's members tithe & obey every order that the leader says & if you doubt it your not a member. All cults have had stories of abuse, people obey blindly & feel that God or some other being will strike them dead if they don't stay close to the cult & it's practises. You are told not to think with your carnal mind. It's just so awful to think that people in TF let others & leaders do things to them & their kids, because they were the shepherds. I don't undertstand how adults would do things without question, even if it was wrong, unloving ,cruel & inhumane. I guess we SGA's got smart & left. I would never let anyone do such things to my kids or let someone treat me in the manner that they would treat people in TF. I remember when I left TF, how I was able to make sense of life. I could see how so twisted TF really was, & how people in the world were not devils. It really freaks me to look back & realise how kids in TF actualy thought that anyone who was not in the Family was a devil. The ones who suffer the most are the kids, they are helpless victims of any cult. At least when you are an adult, you can leave if you want. But of course they put this feeling on you like your so bad & out of it. I really don't like to think about what has happened to everyone in TF, as it's so horrifying & inhumane. But the fact is ,is that you can't just shake off your whole childhood. You want to think that you had a good childhood, but you still have memories that are hard to break. If some people start having to pay for what they did, then it would be a little sigh of relief. It would also help, that people would know that no, they can't do whatever they want to people & will get punished. (reply to this comment)

from exister Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 11:58 (Agree/Disagree?) "Every minute I stay in this room I get weaker. And every minute Charlie squats in the bush he gets stronger." Capt Willard, "Apocalypse Now" (reply to this comment)

from SuzieQ Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 10:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Ha ha! As far as concentration camps go my brother hit them all; the Jumbo, Macau and the Victors for good measure. Hell he even got his own series "the James Series" I am fortunate enough to only have the Jumbo and Macau under my belt. I do have to hand it to the good folks at the Jumbo for the most creative methods of punishment/torture. Then again, there was no snow. Good luck with your rage. Cheers! (reply to this comment)

from Gothsmack Monday, October 25, 2004 - 17:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Here's a tribute to the pain and beatings I suffered at the hands of "shepherds" while in the family. (Sung to the tune of: "Quacky was a duck") VS.1 Uncle Spanky would give spanks and some nasty spanks gave he, with bats and sticks and paddles as crule as he could be, he lived down the hall in a room not far away, and if I was being naughty this is what he'd say... Ch. Smack smack! It seemed he always knew, the way my butt was hurting, my cheeks were black and blue, smack smack! And when I was being bad, he always made me mad with a smack. Vs. 2 When I was in the Family, we weren't allowed to play, instead Uncle Spanky would beat me everyday, I'd sit down beside him, he seemed to be high on crack, He'd beat me till I was bloody, but still I'd answer back... (Repeat Ch.) Vs.3 (Sung slowly and sadly (but with an evil happiness inside)) One day Uncle Spanky, got sick and so I tried, to make him get sicker untill he finally died. But I think of Uncle Spanky, even though I do not pray, He's in the Lake of Fire and I'll be with him there some day. (reply to this comment)

From Baxter Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 04:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Okey, now that just makes me wanna go and kill TF people! It's all rather anthemic actually, painfully funny; I'm laughing and cringing at the same time!(reply to this comment)

From The Pedantic Prick Monday, October 25, 2004, 22:47 (Agree/Disagree?) Very nice, Goth. I had that stupid tune stuck in my head for two hours thanks to you!(reply to this comment)

From Fish Monday, October 25, 2004, 19:08 (Agree/Disagree?) Not bad!! (reply to this comment)

from longlivelove Monday, October 25, 2004 - 17:17 (Agree/Disagree?) It is really sad to think that people in the Family would do such inhumane things to kids, like some of the things you explained. I feel really bad for you & I don't know you, but I feel for you & I believe it's true. I myself have never been in the victor's program but I've heard plenty. I bet every person who has grown up in the Family has some horrific story to tell. No one has apologised for the mistreatment & it's sickening. I think somebody should of done something. But even the adults who weren't the leaders back then, just went along with everything,as nobody dared to say anything,as they were afraid of being called a doubter,etc..I personally feel that the leaders had way too much control on people in the family. The parents should be allowed to decide how they would like to care for their own kids. One thing that has bothered me the most is not getting an education. It was like they don't care what happens to you, not just an education. If you want to get you r driver's license, or if you need medical help. Ultimately they're not going to pay it, but everyone has to put all the money in the common pot. Sounds like communism. I remember at 12 needing braces & the adult who took me there said well, Jesus is coming backsoon, so I don't need to get it fixed. Everyone needs a basic high school education, & actually they need to go to college too,to get a good paying job to support your self. Well being married & having kids, it's hard to go back & study even for your GED. I also had to fight just to get my driver's license, as if I'd never need it. I think that a lot of the kids that grew up in the family wouldn't want their kids to grow up in the family, as everything they went through. Yes there have been some good times & I believe that there were some sincere people who just wanted to be a missionary family. But the leaders made everything so complicated & where they focused on peoples problems,(that they considered problems) then actually witnessing. When we get to Heaven we'll see who the Lord is going to bless. (reply to this comment)

from Cosmicblip Monday, October 25, 2004 - 17:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Being blacklisted from Japan came in handy during the time of the first “Victor Programs.” Of course, our home in Korea found that they could do their own little abusive program, utilizing the visiting shepherds & our homes own private perverts. Though, after the programs officially ended, or we graduated, it seemed that everything was run as a “Victor Program.” Demerits, spanks, extra dishes, missed movie nights, & the ever grammatically incorrect “silence restrictions,” etc. I think you were even in Korea while some of this happened. I think you once mentioned something about getting demerits for cracking your knuckles, accidentally. You were someone I looked up to. I wanted to be rebellious & stubborn but was not good at it, at least not outwardly. But I guess we did what we had to to survive. I always pictured you moving to Europe & leaving the cult in the dust, never to be bothered with it again. I was living in Matsumoto years after all of this happened & we of course were asked by the owners of that property to return it to its original condition. So we went in with hammers, saws, knives, etc., & tore the place a part. It was one of the ugliest, most depressing clot of buildings I have ever seen. It's long gone now. (reply to this comment)

From Cosmicblip Monday, October 25, 2004, 17:07 (Agree/Disagree?) m'kay, you might not be who i thought you were. in any case, the above still mostly applies.(reply to this comment)

from Phoenixkidd Monday, October 25, 2004 - 15:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Oden, I think I know you. I was also in that 2nd Victor program, e-mail me sometime and catch up. Back to your article, The best way for me to describe the Victor shennangan is a cross between concentration camp and a Nazi boarding school. It was hard work, degradation, corporal punishment, amounting to abuse and constant verbal harrassment. By that time I had gotten pretty used to playing the "Good Boy" game, so I wouldn't get punished as much, but I remember some others getting such severe punishment. These included taping mouths over with Gum Tape, which caused mouth chapping, even bleeding in the cold dry weather, regular spankings, I was stressed out for the first week I made myself sick. One guy said he couldn't sit down, I asked why and he promptly showed me his rear, which was just one big bruise, all blue, I've never seen anything like it in my whole life!! I remember Ricky and Elaine came once, to get everyone all riled up for something, and found out that we were turning into mindless zombies with hours of grueling work and various forms of discipline. I remember they tried to lighten things up with the current leadership and told us we could leave whenever we wanted. I actually believed this offer was open, recently I heard from someone who was a victor she tried to leave and they wouldn't let her! The leadership certainly didn't want this to happen because that would prove that the program didn't work and give power to children to leave this awful place. It was almost as though they were making themselves special and "chosen ones" by proving a formula to help the 2nd gen kids to stay in the family---Work?--NOT! The victor program and the type of practices they used to control us, ruined me to an extent. I was such a zombie for the next 6 years and just believed everything my leaders told me. I even feel that certain of my personality traits and lack of creativity or lack of courage to venture from the norm, is due to the constant demeaning and degrading work we had to do as kids i.e. asking people for money, begging for free food, cleaning slop, wearing clothes that were cast-offs, washing dishes for 200 people and on and on. Overall I wasn't physically abused but emotionally and mentally abused. I have since realized the human mind is extremely strong and enduring. I have come to regard it my only reliable defense and my strongest asset. Afterall it is the most powerful force in the Universe, not some God and his "love" or his "Chosen ONes" and all their Bull Crap! (reply to this comment)