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from Eaglebleeds Monday, September 01, 2003 - 03:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I totally agree!!! (reply to this comment)

from neez Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:47 (Agree/Disagree?) I propose we setup a bad-guy database (which can double as a dating service for all the 'bad-girls' out there) No one can register here unless they've gone through a series of rigorous 'bad-guy' screening examinations. A 300 page report must be handed in explaining to eveyone just what a shiner..er good-guy you really are. & how there isn't a shred of 'badness' in you. Better yet MooingUdder.. if you have a particular bad-person in mind.. why don't you just grow a pair & name him/her so we can see just how good..er bad(now I'm confused) they are at defending themselves. Does being a total wuss make you a good person or a bad person? (reply to this comment)

from Nancy Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 21:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Unfortunately, using other members to spy, harrass or abuse one another is an all too familiar tactic. Look at Patty Hearst. A cult convinced her to take up arms and rob banks. In the Family, it wasn't much different. Reporting on others was encouraged, if not required. Family leadership turned spouses against each other. They continually singled people out and required everyone else to shun them. If you stood up for someone, or even sympathized with them, the abuse they were suffering would be turned on you. It's really sad. But, those were the twisted politics of an abusive cult. There were also young people who were put in charge of children and were told to "discipline" them a certain way. Many of the abuses which occurred in Victor Camps and some combos were dictated by higher up leadership. The whole beating young teenagers and tying them to beds, shouting and screaming and having exorcisms and hard labor and all that torture came directly from Berg and his treatment of Mene which was held up and written about as an example of how to treat children and teenagers. The truest guilty parties were cult leadership and the adults who followed their example and abused children. It's not quite the same thing when a child themself is the one being directed or ordered to carry out some abuse by an adult. Further, anyone who left the abusive cult known as the Family as a mere child or teenager is a damn strong individual. It wasn't easy. It may have been all you knew your whole life. You may have had no place to go. You may have had to run away. Making such a life change for the better, forever, takes strength. You decided that you were not going to be a party to all the evil of that cult. You are to be commended. The Family made it as hard as possible. Back 12 years ago, when I left, they made it almost impossible. Those who ran away were slapped and beaten when they were found. They were starved and locked in rooms. They were shunned. It was like escaping prison. Anyone who takes a stand and risks that abuse, so they can better their life, is a damn "good guy." We also have to be aware that it is a cult tactic to try to smear and defame those who have left, even those who left as children and had to run away in foreign countries to escape sexual and physical abuse by leadership, by accusing them of being somehow responsible of the abuse they themselves suffered. It's old. It's tired. It's a tactic. (reply to this comment)

from I don't want your marcy Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 23:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Who needs your marcy, give me a break and start singing a new song and when you talk about ''those SGAs who were key players in the f....'' who are you talking about????? I mean- does anybody have something a bit more intersting to write then the same old stuff????????????????????????????? this site suks, boring-boring! (reply to this comment)

From Sir Rantalot Wednesday, July 16, 2003, 03:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Very true. If you love debating with mature, intelligent people try these Boards: www.bluelight.nu Their Thought & Awareness forum is brilliant, I've found it very helpful as a sheltered ex-Fam to get exposed to a wide array of philosophies & schools of thought. www.barbelith.com An underground discussion board, an offshoot of a site dedicated to Grant Morrison's Invisibles, VERY clued-up people here & excellent for discussing politics, religion, Magick & subversive ideas. www.mrspencer.co.za An SA dance scene forum, but great friendly people if you want to talk about parties, DJs & electronic music..As well as moan about typical clubbers woes. www.thehive.ws For the scientifically-minded, discuss organic chemistry & physics. www.nerve.com Post essays and read others essays. Hope someone will find those sites useful, come here ONLY if you have unresolved issues or if you want to find an old friend. (reply to this comment)

From Jules Wednesday, July 16, 2003, 17:35 (Agree/Disagree?) If this site is boring, it must be all Tim R.'s fault. He's crazy that way. :) Actually here's a question I have been thinking about for awhile. Do you think it's healthy to hang out (virtually or otherwise) with exmembers from the Family? When I first left I didn't have any contact with anyone at all, and I thought that people that did room and hang with other exers were quite lame. I've made some wonderful friends since being on this web site, and gotten back in touch with some people I used to know, but I don't know sometimes. Someone (Miko?) said something about how it's almost like a high school reunion. No matter how old or successful you get, the dynamics between people who grew up together never seem to change. It's true. Not only that, but there's a lot of stuff in regards to the Family that I personally would rather just forget. This might sound a bit strange coming from me, but I've gone back and forth between these two opinions (it's great to be in touch with people I can connect with/I want my life before all this back) a lot over the past months. (reply to this comment)

From Eaglebleeds Monday, September 01, 2003, 03:30 (Agree/Disagree?) The same question enters my mind alot. I`ve come up with, being in touch with other xers that have moved on physically and spiritually, going somewhere and those that are successful encourage me. But all the negative stuff just brings up the past that I`ve put behind and don`t want to deal with in any way. I`m not talking about true stories and facts. Those I want to know cause I like being informed. But I think some who left have become assholes and I`m not interested in what they have to say. All of us who left chose different lives. Unfortunately alot chose the scum of society. As much as I wish them the best I wouldn`t keep in touch. Just like in H.S. , you don`t feel a bond with everyone. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Monday, September 01, 2003, 06:39 (Agree/Disagree?) IMO it's all a case-by-case situation. I don't select those I maintain contact with by whether or not they have been in the Family - I think that would be stilly! I have good friends who have been, or are still, in the Family, and I have others who have never been in the Family - and who have hardly even heard of it! I like having a broad base of friends, and enjoy learning of their own unique backgrounds, cultures, and heritage. I don't see any harm in remaining friends - or even reviving, or beginning friendships - with people who have been, or are, in the Family. But I most certainly don't do it BECAUSE of that, but because I respect them as an individual.(reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Wednesday, July 16, 2003, 18:32 (Agree/Disagree?) I think it depends how you look at it, and how you look at yourself. If you consider being an ex-member a central part of your identity then you haven't "moved on", and if you hang out with people you wouldn't hang out with otherwise just because they are exers, then you are probably still nursing some wounds, and hoping they can help you with that. (They usually can't, but that's another topic) (reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, July 17, 2003, 09:35 (Agree/Disagree?) The people I count as my friends, exers or not, are people I respect, support and love. I would have to say honestly that there people I interact with because they are exers that I never would in "real life". I don't think it's because I hope they can help me with my wounds though. My personal situation (in regards to this web site) is a bit unique. It's interesting though. I don't think being an "exmember" is a central part of my identity, but on some level, being raised in the Family is. I don't think that's unique and I don't think there's really anything I can do about that. Any sort of conversation involving where I come from, my family or anything else and it's apparent I didn't have a the white picket fence parents or a typical upbringing. Anyway, that's not really my point. There's no one I know, exer or not who does not have issues about something. My question is whether or not it is healthy to hang out with people who are in some way part of your past. While it is easier when you don't need to explain any back story, I think it's normal to define ourselves by the way others see us and so do the tendencies to label, judge and assume, the way so many of us do so often, perhaps regress us? I have not lived with my parents since I was 12, and whenever I visit them, after a few hours I'm having a pillow fight with my sisters, arguing with my brother, rolling my eyes at my mom, and basically acting like a teenager. It's quite embarassing. Perhaps that explains the obnoxious behaviour from otherwise mature, intelligent and sensitive people on this web site. Is it just regression? Is that really a good idea? (reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Thursday, July 17, 2003, 10:20 (Agree/Disagree?) The issues you have with your siblings are universal. Generally I think it's unhealthy to be in any relationship where there is no mutual respect for personal boundaries, as is so often the case with siblings. It generally brings out the most immature and undignified aspects of all of our characters, and any unilateral attempt to behave in a normal or educated fashion will usually result in your siblings/parents/partner's dishing out a strike below the belt to bring you back down to the level they are more comfortable with you on, even if sarcasm and bickering is the only communication possible on that level.(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Thursday, July 17, 2003, 06:38 (Agree/Disagree?) I do tend to agree with you, PJ. I still define myself very much as an ex-member. I have no close friends that were not raised in TF and sometimes I feel that I am stuck back there in the past in a lot of ways. I have only left fairly recently though, so I am sure this will change in time. Another factor in the equation is that I have been a fulltime mum for years so I do not get out much and have not had a lot of opportunity to make aquaintences with people. On the other hand though I don't think that any of us can escape the fact that our background is and always will be a central part of our identity - Surely every person in the world is a direct product of their upbringing, whether good or bad, and no amount of denial or determination to forget where we came from will change the fact that it did shape us and our characters. One reason why I find it difficult to have "outsider" friends is that I am one of those people who absolutely loves to talk - I cannot keep from getting myself into long conversations on all sorts of subjects and have to get deep (for want of a better word - I know it's corny) and analytical at every possible opportunity. This means that I feel extremely uncomfortable trying to have a conversation with someone who doesn't have the same background - I just do not feel that someone who doesn't know exactly where I'm coming from would be able to get half the stuff I say. Oftentimes, my words tumble out of my mouth before I even have time to consider what I am saying, and it's hard to remember to filter out all the strange and unusual terms and such that only an ex-mem would understand. I would hope that this will abate after some time as I have more practice in relating to others, because I do think it is vital that I make friends outside of those who I have known for years. (reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, July 17, 2003, 10:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Something that I think most of us did when we first left was make a definite effort to change our language and vocabulary. For me it took a few months of consistently watching the words I said and changing things that were family terminology to more normal phrases and expressions. At this point now it's a little weird to even hear that lingo. It's funny though, every cultic group (Hare Krishnas, Republicans, Microsoft) has their own dialect, and I think it's one way to make the members feel both elite and isolated.(reply to this comment)

From wordnerd Thursday, July 17, 2003, 13:22 (Agree/Disagree?) I think it's also a way to obstruct outsider's view into what is being said, because the actual meaning behind the same words can have a very, very different content and emotional charge than elsewehere, in the cases where one is not using a different word entirely.(reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Thursday, July 17, 2003, 11:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Let's not forget liberals and their PC jargon, the vicious watchdogs of public morality who want to rewrite the dictionary everytime a new strain of "bad attitude" is detected.(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, July 17, 2003, 20:36 (Agree/Disagree?) So, liberals are the "vicious watchdogs of public morality"? Hmm...I distinctly remember a certain conservative President who was dethroned by a liberal due to his overconcern for public morality and lack of concern for the "capitalistically challenged" (good one, Jules!). (And just in case anyone feels a burning desire to comment on that particular liberal's morality....please do try and say something unique and imaginative that we haven't heard already, remember we've all "been there, done that"!!!:))(reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Friday, July 18, 2003, 10:42 (Agree/Disagree?) I am having a "caffeinne challenged" morning, and because of this I'm having trouble deciphering your euphemisms. Perhaps you could clarify your cryptic historical references and we could discuss this over in "All my politics" - I'll watch for your new post over there. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Friday, July 18, 2003, 11:45 (Agree/Disagree?) My dear PJ, as informed and intelligent your replies are (well, mostly!!!), I'm quite amazed that you would see my comment as "cryptic historical references". Perhaps once you've had a chance to "get the victory" over your "caffeine challenged" state of mind it will all make sense to you! I would love to spell it out, but, since my reference was hardly "cryptic" I'm sure someone of your intelligence can easily figure it out!!!(reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, July 17, 2003, 13:22 (Agree/Disagree?) We generally prefer the term capitalistically challenged.(reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Thursday, July 17, 2003, 10:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Just remember that what you are experiencing is not strange at all. The fact is that understanding and caring, non-judgemental people are extremely hard to find. This is equally true of ex-members, but with exers the understanding and non-judgemental part comes from the shared background, it doesn't mean that they posess these qualities as individuals. Quite to the contrary, if you look over most of the longer threads on this web page, and then compare with almost any other discussion board on the internet you will see that as a group we tend to be extremely condescending, rude, demanding, insulting and disrespectful of each other plus two or three times worse with "outsiders" who happen along. You will find friends who have never been in a cult, and some of them will be more caring and selfless than anyone you ever knew in the group. In relationships they will never decide to "put God first" and when you are old or sick they will never decide to "let the dead bury the dead" if they find you doing something illegal they will rarely rat you out to gain favor with the powers that be, they will never try to pressure you to conform to their spiritual of political viewpoints and will probably never point out your spelling mistakes or give a shit about your lack of education. (reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, July 17, 2003, 10:25 (Agree/Disagree?) "as a group we tend to be extremely condescending, rude, demanding, insulting and disrespectful of each other" PJ, if I can ask a pointed question here: IMO you have been one of the worst for this on this site. You've been quite up front about that as well, even with your choice of screen name. If you recognise this, and please let me know if I am misreading you, but you seem to be saying it's a bad thing, why do you do it? (reply to this comment)

From Mir Thursday, July 17, 2003, 12:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Here we go!!!! I can feel a Jules and PJ fight coming on!!! Excellent! Hours of entertainment ;-)(reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Thursday, July 17, 2003, 10:52 (Agree/Disagree?) If I knew, maybe I would change. Thinking about it though, I think it might be kind of a defense mechanism, sort of like the arms race, nobody wants to be the only one with no guns. If you refer to my comment to you on the topic of sibling rivalry I think the same things happen here, after all, how would you describe our sick relationships with each other if we're not some kind of unwilling half-siblings? (i'm not talking about you and me specifically Jules, but if the shoe kind of seems to fit sometimes)(reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, July 17, 2003, 13:29 (Agree/Disagree?) I definitely agree with your point about the lack of boundaries. I've often thought that exers are like relatives, cousins I guess, and personally I think dating someone who also grew up in the Family would be quite weird. I can see your point about abrasiveness being a defense mechanism. I think I do that as well. In real life I don't disclose information about myself without watching closely for visual clues as to the reaction in the other person, and if there's any hesitation or rejection I quickly change topics. You can't really do that online, so it's easier to sprinkle some insults in something that is a bit too personal. Given the Family being what it was, you never know, maybe you and I actually are half-siblings, although the only thing we seem to have in common is that we are both very opinionated.(reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Thursday, July 17, 2003, 17:37 (Agree/Disagree?) I've dated a few girls who are ex members, and though every situation is different and I would hate to generalize, I think there's plenty said by the fact that I'm not with someone like that now. The girls I dated that are ex members are all wonderful people, but they needed help I couldn't give them, and I needed someone LESS compassionate, someone who wouldn't understand the wierdnesses I attribute to my upbringing, someone who could force me to leave it behind and be better than all of that. (reply to this comment)

from And you are? Monday, July 14, 2003 - 23:28 (Agree/Disagree?) If you want people to take your question seriously, you should tell us who you are, or at least what programs you were in, and when etc. The fact that someone was better at "playing the game" then you doesn't make them bad. What did they actually do to you? Most all of us were committed Family members at one point, and squealed on each other, sat by while others were beaten down etc. But this stuff happens in "Normal" high schools too. Kids can be cruel, that's just life. If I went after every little teen who ever told on me, or raised their hand in a Public Exposure to point out yet another of my NWO's, there'd be no end to the bloodshed. The blame lies with the FGA's. I strongly disagree with your attempts to lay a blanket condemnation on anyone who ever succeded at anything in the cult. Maybe things changed after I left, but the only complaints I've heard from some younger exers was that some SGA excommed them unfairly. I wish they had excommed me, when I tried to leave I got locked in a room for a month, and surrounded by adults every day trying to beat me down, verbally AND physically. And yes, the other teens just sat by and occasionally chimed in to support the adults, just like I did when they were being raked over the coals. It seems to me that you have a personal grudge against someone. You say: "..they should find no mercy among us." Who is "They" and who are "Us"? I was never in a position of authority, but I had plenty of things to apologize for when I finaly woke up, and plenty of people who needed to apologize to me. Thank God I never ran into anybody with your vindictive attitude. (reply to this comment)

from EyesWideShut Monday, July 14, 2003 - 21:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Reading this post and these comments, I am reminded why I don't hang out on these boards anymore. (reply to this comment)

From PompousJohn Tuesday, July 15, 2003, 10:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Sunny, this topic is a dead horse. Just walk away, nothing to see here. the fact that this person had to comment on his own article 4 times under different aliases just to get any attenton drawn to it shows that there isn't much intersted in this topic. I think most people got there fill of it in the "Sunny James" thread, I know I did.(reply to this comment)

From EyesWideShut Wednesday, July 16, 2003, 10:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey, John. Totally agree. How's everything?(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Tuesday, July 15, 2003, 00:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I hate to point out the obvious, but how can you be "reading this post and these comments" if you "don't hang out on these boards anymore"? (Actually, I really like pointing out the obvious, I just prefaced my sentence that way for purposes of grammatical effect. Toodles!)(reply to this comment)

From Jovi Wednesday, July 16, 2003, 00:06 (Agree/Disagree?) maybe because some of us get on this site every once in a blue moon, trying to see if ther's a new interesting articule or perhaps checking for an old friend- so when you get on and you read the same boring old stuff makes you wonder why you loged in, so you just get out hoping that 5 months later when you might log in again you find what i wrote above. see you in 5 month!(reply to this comment)

from moving out Monday, July 14, 2003 - 00:31 (Agree/Disagree?) I say --that more needs to be light on this mater. (reply to this comment)

from no mercy Monday, July 14, 2003 - 00:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Any of these former Ass holes better wish they never meet up with me cause id be more than glad to give them a good beating! (reply to this comment)

from make love Monday, July 14, 2003 - 00:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude MAKE LOVE - NOT WAR (reply to this comment)

From FUCK U Monday, July 14, 2003, 00:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Thats right -- go fuck your self.(reply to this comment)