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from HEH! apostates.net Monday, April 04, 2005 - 09:44 (Agree/Disagree?) http://www.apostates.net/ (reply to this comment)

from moon beam Monday, April 04, 2005 - 09:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Very interesting website there. Did you know Micheal Jackson was bought up a Jehovah's witness? (His current trial is all over the news right now) "Many pedophile truly bond with their prey. To them, children are the reification of innocence, genuineness, trust, and faithfulness - qualities that the pedophile wishes to nostalgically recapture. The relationship with the child provides the pedophile with a "safe passage" to his own, repressed and fearful, inner child. Through his victim, the pedophile gains access to his suppressed and thwarted emotions. It is a fantasy-like second chance to reenact his childhood, this time benignly. The pedophile's dream to make peace with his past comes true transforming the interaction with the child to an exercise in wish fulfillment. IV. Sex with children is a shared psychosis The pedophile treats "his" chosen child as an object, an extension of himself, devoid of a separate existence and denuded of distinct needs. He finds the child's submissiveness and gullibility gratifying. He frowns on any sign of personal autonomy and regards it as a threat. By intimidating, cajoling, charming, and making false promises, the abuser isolates his prey from his family, school, peers, and from the rest of society and, thus, makes the child's dependence on him total. To the pedophile, the child is a "transitional object" - a training ground on which to exercise his adult relationship skills. The pedophile erroneously feels that the child will never betray and abandon him, therefore guaranteeing "object constancy". The pedophile – stealthily but unfailingly – exploits the vulnerabilities in the psychological makeup of his victim. The child may have low self-esteem, a fluctuating sense of self-worth, primitive defence mechanisms, phobias, mental health problems, a disability, a history of failure, bad relations with parents, siblings, teachers, or peers, or a tendency to blame herself, or to feel inadequate (autoplastic neurosis). The kid may come from an abusive family or environment – which conditioned her or him to expect abuse as inevitable and "normal". In extreme and rare cases – the victim is a masochist, possessed of an urge to seek ill-treatment and pain. The pedophile is the guru at the center of a cult. Like other gurus, he demands complete obedience from his "partner". He feels entitled to adulation and special treatment by his child-mate. He punishes the wayward and the straying lambs. He enforces discipline. The child finds himself in a twilight zone. The pedophile imposes on him a shared psychosis, replete with persecutory delusions, "enemies", mythical narratives, and apocalyptic scenarios if he is flouted. The child is rendered the joint guardian of a horrible secret. The pedophile's control is based on ambiguity, unpredictability, fuzziness, and ambient abuse. His ever-shifting whims exclusively define right versus wrong, desirable and unwanted, what is to be pursued and what to be avoided. He alone determines rights and obligations and alters them at will. The typical pedophile is a micro-manager. He exerts control over the minutest details and behaviors. He punishes severely and abuses withholders of information and those who fail to conform to his wishes and goals. The pedophile does not respect the boundaries and privacy of the (often reluctant and terrified) child. He ignores his or her wishes and treats children as objects or instruments of gratification. He seeks to control both situations and people compulsively. The pedophile acts in a patronizing and condescending manner and criticizes often. He alternates between emphasizing the minutest faults (devalues) and exaggerating the looks, talents, traits, and skills (idealizes) of the child. He is wildly unrealistic in his expectations – which legitimizes his subsequent abusive conduct. Narcissistic pedophiles claim to be infallible, superior, talented, skillful, omnipotent, and omniscient. They often lie and confabulate to support these unfounded claims and to justify their actions. Most pedophiles suffer from cognitive deficits and reinterpret reality to fit their fantasies. In extreme cases, the pedophile feels above the law – any kind of law. This grandiose and haughty conviction leads to criminal acts, incestuous or polygamous relationships, and recurrent friction with the authorities. V. The pedophile regards sex with children as an ego-booster Subteen children are, by definition, "inferior". They are physically weaker, dependent on others for the fulfillment of many of their needs, cognitively and emotionally immature, and easily manipulated. Their fund of knowledge is limited and their skills restricted. His relationships with children buttress the pedophile's twin grandiose delusions of omnipotence and omniscience. Compared to his victims, the pedophiles is always the stronger, the wiser, the most skillful and well-informed. VI. Sex with children guarantees companionship Inevitably, the pedophile considers his child-victims to be his best friends and companions. Pedophiles are lonely, erotomanic, people. The pedophile believes that he is in love with (or simply loves) the child. Sex is merely one way to communicate his affection and caring. But there are other venues. To show his keen interest, the common pedophile keeps calling the child, dropping by, writing e-mails, giving gifts, providing services, doing unsolicited errands "on the kid's behalf", getting into relationships with the preteen's parents, friends, teachers, and peers, and, in general, making himself available (stalking) at all times. The pedophile feels free to make legal, financial, and emotional decisions for the child. The pedophile intrudes on the victim's privacy, disrespects the child's express wishes and personal boundaries and ignores his or her emotions, needs, and preferences. To the pedophile, "love" means enmeshment and clinging coupled with an overpowering separation anxiety (fear of being abandoned). Moreover, no amount of denials, chastising, threats, and even outright hostile actions convince the erotomaniac that the child not in love with him. He knows better and will make the world see the light as well. The child and his guardians are simply unaware of what is good for the kid. The pedophile determinedly sees it as his or her task to bring life and happiness into the child's dreary and unhappy existence. Thus, regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the pedophile is convinced that his feelings are reciprocated - in other words, that the child is equally infatuated with him or her. He interprets everything the child does (or refrains from doing) as coded messages confessing to and conveying the child's interest in and eternal devotion to the pedophile and to the "relationship"." http://samvak.tripod.com/pedophilia.html (reply to this comment)

from Monday, April 04, 2005 - 08:57 (Agree/Disagree?) According to the definition of destructive cults (totalitarian sects) given by the contemporary researchers studying this phenomenon in this country and abroad, the organisation of "Jehovah's Witnesses" has all the characteristics of such. The organisation aims to achieve total alienation of its members from the "outside world" and all other people. All the values of normal human culture are aggressively denied: religious, spiritual, political , economic, national and legal. Their activity and propaganda rouses religious and national dissension, leads to family and state brake-up. They preach ideas of an absolute superiority of one group of people over the other, which is damaging for traditional ways of life. Spreading lies and threats insults religious and national feelings of others, ruins self-respect. The activity of the Jehovah's Witnesses' organisation presents serious danger to society. Awaiting the imminent end of the world arouses fear, nervousness, psychosis and contains potential danger of "initiating" the catastrophe by terrorist acts. The activity of Jehovah's Witnesses is incompatible with international law of human rights and Russian legislation on freedom of worship, education and so on. It also violates the tenets of the Russian Constitution on personal and family rights and freedoms and security of the state. http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=2180 The contents of their sectarian propaganda, that is taking place under the disguise of their religious preaching, deprives people and organisations of self-respect, undermines mutual understanding and co-operation in society as a whole: on public, state, religious, national and cultural levels. The activity of the organisation does not conform with the purposes and objectives stated in the official registration certificate. The preaching of establishing of totalitarian regime in society, mass repressions, state terror, threats of wars and violence is utterly unacceptable in Russia. It is especially insulting to the Russians, who in the recent past experienced numerous sufferings brought upon them by totalitarian regimes. These people have not yet fully recovered from the tremendous losses they had to bear. Consideration of all these factors against the background of instability existing in Russian society, makes the activity of Jehovah's Witnesses and similar organisations extremely dangerous. That is why the government should undertake urgent steps to provide a legal defence of Russian citizens by decisively suppressing the activities of destructive cults (totalitarian sects) on the territory of Russia. (reply to this comment)

from Sonderval Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 14:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Why are you posting this here? I doubt anyone here has really supported the Jehovah's Witnesses and to be honest I don't really think they're guilty of quite the same crimes as The Family, they're just an organised religion with some odd beliefs, pretty similar to catholicism, protestantism, or any other large organised religion. The people at the top of any hierarchical structure always profit from those on the bottom, that's just how life is, this isn't a general religion bashing site this is a site for ex-members of a cult that is far more closed, paranoid and historically abusive that the Jehovah's Witnesses, you will find few interested people here, we've got bigger fish to fry. (reply to this comment)

From DannyHaszard Sunday, April 03, 2005, 14:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Jehovah's Witnesses 'soul raped' 3 generations of my family and got all our money,i didn't have my first girlfriend until age 46 (i'm a 'normal' guy). I haven't seen my MIA JW family or know even who's dead or alive for 15 years. I have a colostomy bag because of mismanaging my ulcerative colitis due to Watchtower prophetic promise defaults and blatant lies viz. '1975' end of the world prediction. Do a comparative internet search and we will find that per capita disgruntled ex JW pages outnumber the mainstream religions about 4 to one. Jehovah Witnesses are a destructive cult big time... (reply to this comment)

From Tim R Monday, April 04, 2005, 01:59 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree, I've heard some pretty disturbing things about the JW's. It's strange how certain patterns seem to repeat themselves in these type of groups.(reply to this comment)

From moon beam Monday, April 04, 2005, 08:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Me too! I've read up on them quite a bit as well as mormons and moonies, same tactics, same institutionalised abuse stratagies, same control and simular technics. Hence they are all considered cults due to their unhealthy, destructive and damaging enviroments. RITZVILLE, Wash. Jan. 22 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Child molesters in the Brooklyn-based Jehovah's Witness church are "routinely given sanctuary, protection, sympathy and support" from church officials according to a new civil sexual abuse lawsuit filed today in Washington state. The leadership of the 1 million member denomination was charged with negligence in the suit. A Sacramento woman is seeking damages from a Jehovah's Witness leader who repeatedly raped her during childhood and from the New York-based denomination. Erica Rodriguez, 23 years old, is suing Manuel Beliz, the Othello Washington Spanish Jehovah's Witness congregation, and the church's official national governing body. Last August, Beliz was convicted of raping and molesting Rodriguez and was sentenced to 11 years in prison. Rodriguez says that Beliz abused her approximately once a week from the time she was four until she was 11, when her family moved to California. The case is significant because it is one of a relatively small number filed against the Jehovah's Witnesses' national headquarters. "The criminal case was to protect other kids from a dangerous molester," said Rodriguez. "This case is to protect many more kids from a dangerous denomination." She contends that "perhaps thousands" of youngsters are victimized because official Jehovah Witness policies enable known molesters to avoid detection and criminal prosecution. During the three-day criminal trial last year, Rodriguez testified that she reported the abuse to two Jehovah's Witness elders in Sacramento, Carlos Chicas and Milton Malendez. The men pressured Rodriguez to keep quiet, threatened to "disfellowship" or excommunicate her, and promised "we will take care of it," the lawsuit indicates. Chicas contacted Othello elder John White but no action was taken. After hearing Rodriguez' allegations, the Othello congregation protected Beliz as an elder within the church and shunned her family, Rodriguez said. Eventually, Rodriguez contacted the Sacramento police and Beliz was questioned and later prosecuted. "This pattern of forbidding abuse victims to contact police or 'outsiders' is standard operating procedure all Jehovah's Witnesses must follow, by direction of the national organization in New York," said Rodriguez' attorney, Timothy Kosnoff of Bellevue, Washington. By failing to contact civil authorities, the Jehovah's Witness elders violated Washington's mandatory child abuse reporting law, Kosnoff said. Rodriguez is also represented by Jeffrey Anderson of St. Paul, Minnesota, who has filed more than 400 cases of sexual abuse cases against clergy across the nation. Last summer, Anderson filed a civil suit against Jehovah's Witness leaders in New Hampshire for failing to report two women's abuse allegations to civil authorities. "The Jehovah Witness church and the Watchtower Society must protect kids and not molesters," said Rodriguez. "A lot of pain and suffering could be prevented if they would forget about the church's image, take sexual abuse seriously and start reaching out to the victims." Rodriguez believes Beliz molested other girls too and hopes her suit "will encourage them to seek justice and begin healing as I have." Two juries found Beliz guilty of victimizing Rodriguez. His first conviction was overturned when the deputy prosecutor admitted trying to exclude younger women during jury selection. An appellate court then ordered a re-trial. At both trials, dozens of Othello Jehovah's Witnesses and Beliz' family members spoke or wrote to the judge urging a lenient sentence. At the second trial, fifteen current and former Jehovah's Witnesses from across the country came to support Rodriguez and express their disapproval of the church's hierarchy. Rodriguez' backers were led by church elder William Bowen of Calvert City, Kentucky, who quit his job last year to lobby for improvements in Witness policies towards abuse victims. Bowen heads "Silent Lambs," the only national support group for men and women abused by Jehovah's Witness officials (http://www.silentlambs.org, 1-800-WTABUSE). "It took a lot of courage for Erica to overcome her trauma and speak out," said Bowen. "She should be praised for helping to save other children. Instead, her church has vilified her. Witnesses have treated other victims in the same way, and this 'shooting the messenger' has to stop." Today's civil suit, filed in federal court in Washington's Eastern District, seeks unspecified monetary damages. Beliz is now incarcerated at the Washington penal institution in Walla Walla. There are approximately one million Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States and six million across the world. http://www.usnewswire.com/ (reply to this comment)

From Sonderval Monday, April 04, 2005, 08:58 (Agree/Disagree?) In which case I apologise for my previous comments, I was speaking from ignorance it would seem, I just reacted to what was posted above, and although hurtful it wasn't criminal, the things listed in this comment clearly are so it would seem that perhaps the JW are guilty of some of the same things as The Family. The one difference is that JW may protect their members when accused of this stuff, but The Family advocated and encouraged it among it's members, which does not of course excuse JW for their policies above. I wish you all the luck in the world in your campaign, the only thing I'd advise is be careful of the banner you fight under, you'll probably have more success if you have a clear agenda that isn't 'destroy the evil cult'. If you're campaigning against the policy of silence above then go for something along the lines of requiring a full apology and open investigation into everyone involved in the debacle, a clear change in the policy and steps taken to make sure the change is enforced, that kind of thing. Also make sure that you clearly state that you have nothing against the organisation etc etc, you must be careful that you do not come off seeming as crazy as them or people will just ignore you. The problem when fighting groups of this kind is if you appear to be attacking the group as a whole they immediately start shouting about religious persecution and hiding behind 'freedom of religion' etc etc, so you need to be very careful that you clearly state that you are not trying to deny them their right to exist (however crazy and potentially damaging you might personally believe their beliefs to be) you are just targetting criminals and institutional problems within the organisation, push for reform, not dissolution. As I said earlier, you cannot take away people's right to be stupid, it's particularly hard to accept when it's your own family but that's how it is. Good Luck(reply to this comment)

From moon beam Monday, April 04, 2005, 09:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Just to say that yes, the major difference in TF was the blatent teaching, and documentation of the belief. This has been why, IMO, over the last 10 or so years TF has hit the headlines and gained the attention of media and TV. INFORM(UK) and other such bodies work with and speak on behalf of the main cults, mormons, moonies, JWs, and more recently TF. (reply to this comment)

From Sonderval Sunday, April 03, 2005, 15:09 (Agree/Disagree?) You may have been "soul raped" many of the people here have been ACTUALLY raped and otherwise physically abused, yes your religion may well have been controlling, exploitative and whatever else, that's what religions do and you're not going to be able to stamp them out, and if your family is stupid enough to dedicate their lives to their organisation and haven't chosen to keep in touch with you then that's THEIR CHOICE. The freedom of belief is not something that many people here have a problem with, what we have a problem with is actual crimes, real life physical crimes that The Family has encouraged and perpetrated over the years, I'm sorry you couldn't get a girlfriend after you left but that's not really on the same scale. I'm sorry you chose to believe that the world was going to end and so didn't look after yourself properly, but you cannot take away people's right to be idiots.(reply to this comment)

From Fish Sunday, April 03, 2005, 18:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Hear, hear!!(reply to this comment)