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from Sam.A Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 15:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Who are you? You don't even have a name with your profile. Damn your'e as bad as WS. & don't be stupid enough to actually compare the sexual ,mental and phyisical abuse to little children in the family to fucking vietnam or africa, and what messed up soldiers did.These people obviously were not "SERVING GOD" Dumbass. (reply to this comment)

from MariaKL Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:24 (Agree/Disagree?) So now speaking up about the RAMPANT abuse that occured in The Family is wasting the Family's time? What about our time that you used to try and brainwash us into thinking that being abused was o.k.? And juut cause kids get abused all around the world DOES NOT make the Family a safe place for children FUCK YOU JEREMY (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, February 10, 2005, 11:08 (Agree/Disagree?) Not to mention the mind numbing devotions and pow wows before breakfast, cleaning and housework,looking after all the children, endless hrs walking, witnessing, selling posters and tapes day after day, (door to door, ofice to ofice, shop to shop, huge army bases) sometimes without lunch or enough water. Then for a night of listening or watching the adults screw and maybe one of them screwing you, OH the fun, the memories.(reply to this comment)

from Bella Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 18:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Your post is so god damn rude! How disrespectful to not only Daniel but to ALL victims of abuse. God help you Jeremy. (reply to this comment)

From Regi Sunday, January 30, 2005, 18:32 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree 100 percent. Jeremy, do you think it's easy for people to speak up about past abuse? Give me a break!(reply to this comment)

from Shaka Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 18:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Ummmm, wrong Daniel. Please, oh pleeease let this not be the intelligence level of the whole Family. I don't want to start feeling pity for you when you're being mopped off the floor in the courtroom. (reply to this comment)

from Rebecca C. Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 16:10 (Agree/Disagree?) Ok I to try to be really nice, so if I say somthing ugly Jules please don't put me in the trailer park. If I understand this letter correctly you are saying that because he didn't claim to have suffered abuse before he is now simply making it up. Recently I had a discussion with my mom who had worked in WS for years she personally handled all the mail that went to bergs home. You in the Family should remember her she wrote the letter Bury em'. Anyhow we were discussing the Family and who are leaders now and were they abusers before. I told my mom of a secret my sister and I had kept for over 22 years. How when we were six and went over for a sleep over at another home. With another Family we had known for years. My parents trusted them, as they had recently come from Bergs home. We were molested at their home when I was six and I finnaly told my mom when I was 28. I have been out for eight years and only recently feel secure enough with who I am, to discuss with some of my Family, my story. Does this mean it didn't happen to me? I have lied for the Family. When we were raided in France, you better believe I told them I was never abused. So who do you think we should have told? Perhaps I should have told the doctor who examined me exactly how I lost my virginity. Perhaps, I should have told the shrink what happened to me in the Jumbo. Perhaps I should have told the police who arrested my dad exactly what was going on in the home and about the tn who was in the attic courtesy of the visiting NAS who at his home base was screwing a fifteen year-old. You think you are so smart and so blessed by the Lord you can come on here and spew your idiocy on us and we will be dumbfounded. I want to know and I challenge you to answer me. How many people has the Family reported to the police? Don't give me that crap about we didn't know. My mom typed up the report and sent it to Zerby. Did you report him? His name in the Family was Francesco he was a Nas in France. Was he reported? Let us be honnest for one minute, I hope it doesn't kill you. The Family would have shit a brick had we gone to the "romans" and reported anything. One more thing, I want to understand. Because there are worse abuses out there, does that mean what happened to me doesn't count? Does that mean I don't hurt? Do I not feel victimized because some was else has a worse fate than I? Your logic escapes me. You have failed the very children you were given to protect. You have failed me and you have failed Daniel and you have failed all those others that are on this site. We were your children, and we were your victims. How do you make an account for that? How do you stand in the mirror and look at your reflection and not wonder what you did wrong, how you Zerby will have to give an account. Do you stay awake at night and think of all the kids that were paddled and put on silence restriction, had prayers of deliverance for spirits they were never possessed with, fasted and quarantined. Do you ever wonder what you did wrong with Ricky? Do you ever think maybe it was your fault and the blame lies with you. Your son, Zerby, your child. I think on this site we have cried more tears for him than the whole Family put together because we understand his pain. We understand his fustration and his rage. And you have the audacity to ask if Daniel was abused. WE ARE YOUR CHILDREN AND WE ARE YOUR VICTIMS. (reply to this comment)

from BS filter Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 14:18 (Agree/Disagree?) You are severely missing the point here - and what we are all about, we are not about "revenge" we are about accountability, remember the letter "taking the blame" TF want us to take the blame for the pain we suffered, the message has been and always will be suck it up! we won't suck it up, we were thrown out penniless, homeless and clueless. TF took everything we had, my older sister died because she felt guilty about taking medicine - being sick wasn't allowed because it meant you didn't have "enough faith", over and over again I've heard of people being refused medicine when they were at deaths door! Thailand, Sri-lanka and Indonesia just suffered a huge disaster, I sure hope the perverts that molested children were washed away by the tsunami, let me spell it out for you perverts who touch or suck children's genitals, rape them and steal their innocence deserve the death penalty. TF is trying to go "legit" it ain't going to wash you are like the white sepulchers, clean on the inside but inside you are full of perversion and excess. It's not upto Daniel to "prove" he was abused, it is upto TF to step up and start having some sense of accountability for what happened and that ex members are duly compensated for our losses (I'm sure that cash is no object after all the money you have embezzled from your members). (reply to this comment)

from enigma Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 13:35 (Agree/Disagree?) So let me see your logic. Because there are other problems in the world Daniel should not focus on something that affected him and many other he knows? What if the pimps that run the child prostitutes in the places you mentioned (Romania/Thailand) told someone who was out to expose them “why are you focusing on us there are so many other problems in the world. Get a life”. Do you understand how illogical that is?I’m also glad you liked the early training you received on how to make money that you are so proud about. In civilized countries they call that child labor which was banned a long time ago. I know I sure as hell hated begging. There are so many other ridiculous things you mentioned it is not even worth my time discussing them. Oh by the way, check your facts before you write such an idiotic diatribe. Did it ever occur to you that there is more than one person named Daniel? He did not write “The Professionals”. And just because my dad and mom and 2 sisters say he was not abused does not mean they are telling the truth. (Yes I am Josh, Daniel Roselle’s Brother.) First off, my older sister lives with Zerby so obviously she is going to say that. Second, my other sister is 16 (I think) and was not even born during the specific time he mentioned. Third, my parents were rarely around us when we were kids as they were traveling around as “Shepherds”. Plus they are so invested in The Family of course they are going to lie. I am very proud of what Daniel and MANY OTHERS are doing: exposing the abuses that we all know took place. You act as if we were never in the Family. I remember clearly being told what to say if “systemites”,“the enemy” or reporters came to the house. We were told to lie and say “No, we have never been abused”. So go back to your life that you love so much. If you did not abuse anyone then you have nothing to worry about. Josh R. (reply to this comment)

from Gothsmack Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 12:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Does the existance of something in our society define it as acceptable? I think its a well known fact that there are numerous abuses and injustices in the world. (shit happens) It still doesnt make it right. I don't care how many abortions happen every day. If you go out and kill a baby, saying you were justified simply because abortions happen would be absurd. People die of starvation every day. Should we now starve our children? Rebel soldiers in africa cut off the hands of their victims? Should I now cut off your hands to keep you from writing what I consider to be a sensless article? If you are a christian, and I suspect that you are, a statement from the bible would help define this point. Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! (reply to this comment)

from frmrjoyish Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:36 (Agree/Disagree?) It's despicable the way TF keeps taunting it's victims with "well, prove it then". For the most part many victims don't even know the real names of their abusers or where they live. They know this and continually hold it over the head of their own children! It's sickening! (reply to this comment)

from katrim4 Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Now that we've established that you are confusing two different Daniel's, why don't you crawl back into your little hole and ask Jesus to show you (maybe through prophecy) what you should post next. You obviously didn't pray very much about this post as it turned out to be wrong on several accounts. On another note, please kindly define abuse for me. What do you consider abuse? It seems to me that more and more, The Family's definition of abuse is straight up rape. Maybe that wasn't rampant (although I've heard from plenty of people that it did happen a lot) but that's not the real defenition of abuse. A simple look at dictionary.com shows 8 definitions for abuse, here are the top 4: To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile Number 3 clearly states that it is "to force sexual activity on; rape OR molest". There is no need for rape to have occured for abuse to have occured. And that's just when we aply the defenition in a sexual context. Not all abuse is sexual, there are countless other forms of abuse, many of which we were subjected to as children. I really wish that The Family would clearly give their defenition of abuse every time they put out a statement claiming there was no rampant abuse. If they did, it would be so much easier for those of us reading The Family's statments to understand what they are defending themselves from. (If you still don't think that abuse was widespread and that the family denounced all forms of sexual abuse back in 1986, please kindly refer to the Summit Jewls of '95 for Maria's complete answer on this. Thank you.) (reply to this comment)

from EyesWideShut Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 10:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Haha! Waaaay off, dude. Get a clue. (reply to this comment)

From Saturday, January 29, 2005, 10:32 (Agree/Disagree?) Wow what a wonderful "Sample" (Example) he is of the power of the keys. HAHAAAHA hA LOL (reply to this comment)

from JohnnieWalker Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 09:34 (Agree/Disagree?) xbytejp, you might want to do a bit of research before you stick your foot in your mouth like this. Daniel Roselle is not the author of the letter that sparked the "Professionals GN". That would be the person posting here as "thepersoniamnow". I hate to embarrass you like this, but just thought I'd point that out. (reply to this comment)

From xbytejp Saturday, January 29, 2005, 20:34 (Agree/Disagree?) I stand corrected. But the point I'm trying to make is that the cases of abuse in the Family are very few and are not happening anymore. There are cases of abuse happening all the time now in society. If you want to make a dent in the fight against abuse it would be better to attack the problem where it is the most prevelent. Again I'm sorry I made a mistake in mixing up the two Daniels. (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, February 10, 2005, 09:55 (Agree/Disagree?) The only people who are saying these "cases are few" are you and TF. I know they aren't just a "few", and seeing how TF have hidden themselves away, indoctrinated and taught us the "wonder working miracle of lying", we apostates have to be quite vocal in getting our side heard. There are organisations, charities and pressure groups doing all they can to help rid the world of poverty, death, child slavory and prostitution.( which I do support) Who is there to keep an eye on self professed groups, who hide themselves away and keep their children locked up, enduring these nightmares? If no body can see the crime taking place how do they know they must act against it? · When an individual wishes to stand in opposition to authority, he does best to find support for his position from others in his group. The mutual support provided by men for each other is the strongest bulwark we have against the excesses of authority. (1974) Stanley Millgram No one supported anyone else in TF, they divided our loyalties and made us tell on our friends, family etc.. With numbing regularity good people were seen to knuckle under the demands of authority and perform actions that were callous and severe. Men who are in everyday life responsible and decent were seduced by the trappings of authority, by the control of their perceptions, and by the uncritical acceptance of the experimenter's definition of the situation, into performing harsh acts. …A substantial proportion of people do what they are told to do, irrespective of the content of the act and without limitations of conscience, so long as they perceive that the command comes from a legitimate authority. (1965) Stanley Millgram (reply to this comment)

From AMC28 Thursday, February 10, 2005, 09:35 (Agree/Disagree?) "the point I'm trying to make is that the cases of abuse in the Family are very few" You are so full of crap it's hard to read. First of all, I consider standing on a street corner begging when your parents have the ability to find paying jobs abuse. Using your children to make money while you sit on your ass and receive prophesy is abuse. Child neglect is the same as child abuse. Being offered to grown men at the age of 8 and 9 abuse. Spanking to the point of beating is abuse. When a child has to stay in the house or covered from head to toe because the got a "spanking" it is no longer a spanking. That is abuse. Putting a child in solitary confinement and forcing them to fast to get rid of "demons" is abuse. Forcing children to make false confessions is abuse. How many of us received "prophesies" and "got the victory" just to get out of more torture? Those are a very few examples. Don't tell me abuse wasn’t rampant. Don’t tell me it isn’t today. You have a warped idea of what abuse is. You have been told what abuse is by people who have been trying to excuse their actions and who have been lying about it for decades. We were children More was expected of us than should ever have been. I think you all forget when you try to tell us to get over it, that we were children. Some of us were young teenagers but still more children than adults. We didn’t choose to be born in the Family. Our life was chosen for us. We didn’t know any different. There were some who were lucky enough to have been born outside of the Family and had some idea what normal was. Some of us even got to go to school until our age posed a threat to the Family way of life. An unsupervised child in a “system” school has all day to run their mouth about their “Aunties” and “Uncles”. Imagine the damage we could have caused back then if we weren’t so afraid. So back off jackass! You know nothing. Most of the abuse wasn’t reported because we were afraid and there was no one to report it to. I was told to get over it, get the victory, be an example of God’s love. Screw that and screw you! The Family needs to stop lying and take some responsibility.(reply to this comment)

From C.D. Thursday, February 10, 2005, 07:46 (Agree/Disagree?) I find it odd that you say the "cases of abuse are very few and not happening anymore". When I was growing up they happened everyday. Perhaps not sexual abuse, but physical abuse. We were beat with wooden paddles hand made to produce the most pain as possible. It started when I was 5 years old and lasted untill I left at 16. I challenge your statement, I have friends who grew up with me who would as well. The reason that it doesn't happen anymore is because we have stood up and our voices have been heard. I would imagine it would still be a daily occurence if you Family members were not afraid of legal reprocussions. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Thursday, February 10, 2005, 08:29 (Agree/Disagree?) I remember this Spanish "uncle" hand made these "rods" carefully crafted to produce different levels of pain, so depending on your infraction you might get a softer or harder one.(reply to this comment)

From FGA with sis still in group Saturday, January 29, 2005, 21:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Stop taking the focus off of TF and start taking responsibility...that's all they are asking! Why would you even WANT to be in a group that EVER had a problem with abuse??? Doesn't that say something to you? "But the point I'm trying to make is that the cases of abuse in the Family are very few and are not happening anymore." And the fact that they have NEVER really admitted how bad it was??? Open your eyes...you're not stupid...stop believing everything you hear your "leaders" say and start thinking for yourself...it really IS liberating! (reply to this comment)

From xbytejp Sunday, January 30, 2005, 02:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Now what if I'm not in the group anymore? I still choose to believe what the Family stands for even if I'm still not a part of it. I have a good job, I make a decent living, I'm on good terms with my parents, I still see other Family members from time to time. I'm not blinded by any leaders, I can make my own descisions. If I want to believe and support the Family that's my own choice. Just because I believe in something that you don't believe in anymore doesn't make me a mindless robot. (reply to this comment)

From Jaded Thursday, February 03, 2005, 18:48 (Agree/Disagree?) What I find telling is that all the apologists say it was a wonderful environment for kids but are rather quick to put it on par with the ghetto or trailer-park to make their arguments. I don't understand how saying that worse things happened somewhere else makes it suddenly right. And if you can manage to justify child abuse and worse then, yes, you are a mindless robot.(reply to this comment)

From Lance Sunday, January 30, 2005, 04:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Please tell us what it is that you believe in. What is your theology that follows so closely to the families complete lack of a theology? What do you believe in? Is all that you believe in consist of distorting our claims? That isn't a belief or doctrine. That is denial! Just because you have a good job and make a decent living doesn't mean that you have free will. You are so used to throwing yourself in front of the bullet that you don't recognize a spade as a spade. You're so attached that I actually feel more sorry for you then angry at you. So I ask you again: What do you believe in? Or is it what the family told you to believe in? What do you FUCKING believe in?! (reply to this comment)

From xbytejp Sunday, January 30, 2005, 03:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Let me add that this has got to be one of the worst forums I've ever been on. There are lot's of stupid, smart ass comments floating around here posted that serve no purpose. Frankly if all you want to do is sit around reminiscing about the past and all that shit, go right ahead. But I'm not going to waste my time on a bunch of people who are so filled with hate & anger that it consumes them 24/7. This is already taking so much time from me as it is, I have a job, I have things I want to do and I don't need to post things here that get put down just because it goes contrary to the majority of the people's beliefs. So for all you who hate what I believe & stand for, this is the last you'll see of me here. I'm sure you're all thrilled to see me go. You only accept people who believe as you do and I'm not one of them. So long. Get a life, I'm tired of Ya'll. (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, February 10, 2005, 09:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Can you answer the Question? So far the beiefs of TF have had a negative effect on it's members,i.e not thinking for themselves, being unable to question, not being incharge of their children, sexually abusing children, beatings and intimidation, control, cencored letters and reading material,condemnation, treating people like children, treating children like adults. What are these new beliefs you speak off? (reply to this comment)

From conan Sunday, January 30, 2005, 18:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude, you have got to stop the damn noise coming out of your mouth long enough to listen to it. Are you insane???? Yes, you are right in that not every single family member, or ex-member to be more precise, was sexually or even phisically abused. The question however is not to find out who was or who wasn't abused. It is common knowledge to those who were in and to those who are in who have been so for more than 15 years that abuse not only occured but was rampant. For you to use the same ideaology as TF in comparing our "poor rough childhoods" to those who have suffered far worse is not even logical. DUH you A-hole!!!! Of course people out there have had it worse than us. But they were not raised in an environment where "love is the most important thing". Am I getting through to you at all??? Is any of this sinking in??? Not every ex-member on here is an "apostate" or determined to see TF brought to an end. Many of us merely want justice. And justice, my friend, is blind (or should be anyways). Which to me means that no matter how isolated the sexual abuse cases may be (which they're not by the way...u try getting abused and then freely discussing it with the world so that everyone associates you with "damaged goods" or "scarred" labels) the victims have the right for retribution. And that is something that TF is not willing to allow but something that many of us on this web site are not willing to leave alone. We demand justice for the wrongs done to us; no matter how "slight" or "isolated" they may appear to be to your blind, brain-washed perspective. That's it I'm done! I refuse to complement your idiocy with any further declarations of enlightenment. (reply to this comment)

From Lance Sunday, January 30, 2005, 04:05 (Agree/Disagree?) With all do respect; that would be respect that is due to you. No, scratch that! With all disrespect! I am completely hostile to all people who convey themselves as complete morons while holding up some imaginary banner of intellect. What is it that you believe and stand for? Oh god, do tell me! I am more then eager to hear it. Really! Please tell me about the moral highground that somehow diminishes your capacity for the truth? Inlighten my obviously inferior mind, you dumb,incapable and obviously illiterate motherfucker!(reply to this comment)

From Wolf Sunday, January 30, 2005, 06:38 (Agree/Disagree?) You ain’t all that smart yourself. (Do respect? Inlighten?)(reply to this comment)

From Lance Sunday, January 30, 2005, 22:10 (Agree/Disagree?) A few spelling errors only prove that I didn't run spell check. But I formally acknowledge my error to you and all the other grammer nazis. Blow me!(reply to this comment)