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from ack Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 12:06 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh wow, I'm receiving a message from beyond! It's from oh... here it comes... one of the germs who lived on Maria, but passed on... ...trying to tell me something... oh. It's gone... one of the enemy's spiritual antibiotics has attacked, sorry to dissapoint you all. But stay tuned, 'cause I'm pretty sure some pus will try to talk to me next... (listening...) wow, it's name is Agapleximegmacondari, best go grab a key. (reply to this comment)

from thepersoniamnow Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 19:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Hahahahahahahahanyayayayayayayaya....how can a person(s) take themselves and their shit so seriously. This is so sad its funny. (reply to this comment)

from sister Monday, May 24, 2004 - 13:55 (Agree/Disagree?) sorry, to clarify - the Patrick mentioned by Vicky (reply to this comment)

from sister Monday, May 24, 2004 - 13:53 (Agree/Disagree?) The above mentioned Patrick, is my little brother and I would like to state for the record that we WAS NOT trying to rejoin the Family and had no one was trying to get him to rejoin. My parents have been FM for about 10 years but pretty much live a normal life and they don't enforce in any way Fam doctrines on the kids. My brother has been having mental problems for several years now and it wasn't due to any recent contact with Family members. (that's not to say he wasn't affected by issues as a child) He's been working full-time, long hours, doesn't really have any friends, very quiet etc. He'd been doing wierd stuff off and on for a few years.... talking to himself, not making any sense, asking wierd questions, sometimes way too much energy, wanting to punch walls or asking to be punched - very strange. All that to say, Bi-polar/manic depression runs in my family. My grandmother was diagnosed with it and sufferered most of her life till the day she died. There hasn't been an officially diagnoses for what he has but they're pretty sure just from talking to him for the past couple days that he is bi-polar. He's never been on medication so hopefully they'll get that all worked out and he'll start to feel better again. (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Monday, May 24, 2004, 14:10 (Agree/Disagree?) First let me say I hope that you are alright. I imagine this must be a very difficult time for you, and you and your brother and your family have my deepest sympathy. Secondly, I hope that you don't feel I was mocking the tone of your parent's request as I can understand that they are dealing with the situation in the way they feel is best, and perhaps asking for prayer is one of the only ways they know to get some moral support. While I might not agree with TFs views on mental illness I fully respect your parents' right to deal with their issues in whatever way they feel they should. Thirdly, it was the comparison to Joe that got me, I have to admit. I haven't actually read the related GN yet so I really can't comment on it in any relevant way, but I have heard a general account of the things Zerby and Kelly said about that poor guy, and it made me pretty mad to say the least. And finally, since I spoke without really knowing what I was talking about, I apologise if my comment caused any distress.(reply to this comment)

from Jerseygirl Monday, May 24, 2004 - 11:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Why do we keep getting ourselves all worked up over GN's and policies of a cult we are no longer part of?(no flame intended) I have to admit that I'm sometimes curious to read it if for nothing other than just the hilarity and ridiculousness but for some reason it always leaves me so pissed off. I think the devil is trying to show me that I've had enough wordtime already to last me a lifetime. Here we are in a world that could really use some people who truly want to help and make a difference and TF, who claim to do this very thing, are just sitting around making and breaking silly little policies and rules.Christ!--Use three sheets already! What a bunch of hypocritical psychos! (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Monday, May 24, 2004, 12:09 (Agree/Disagree?) The only reason why I bother is because my whole family is still in and I want to maintain an idea of their beliefs and the general environment in which they're living.(reply to this comment)

from Big Sister Monday, May 24, 2004 - 10:08 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm not a doctor but how does this make sense: "45. * If you have had sex with outsiders, you will need to get an HIV test six months after your contact with the outsider(s), and you must abstain from sex with anyone but your mate during the six months until you have the test. That's not a punishment; it's simply to protect the Family from any possible disease."? Wouldn't that mean you could still pass HIV/AIDS to your mate who could then spread it around? If you were the mate wouldn't you want to totally abstain or use condoms until your partner got a negative HIV test? And what about all the other diseases you can catch and pass on to your mate? (reply to this comment)

From Shackled Monday, May 24, 2004, 19:19 (Agree/Disagree?) I heard that mm'ers can have sex with outsiders but cm'ers can't. And apparently cm'ers now have a new classification, like fg or something. (reply to this comment)

From Jedran Monday, May 24, 2004, 23:46 (Agree/Disagree?) It's FD and it stands for Family Disciple (how original). Although it doesn't mention it here, the mate of someone who's had sex with an outsider is not allowed to have sex with anyone outside their husband or wife until the second HIV test is negative. They are also supposed to use a condom (as far as I recall).(reply to this comment)

From exister Monday, May 24, 2004, 12:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Congratulations! You found a loophole in the logic of babbling culties.(reply to this comment)

from exister Monday, May 24, 2004 - 09:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Well Fucking Yeay! (reply to this comment)

from heywood jablome Monday, May 24, 2004 - 08:16 (Agree/Disagree?) I swear the more articles I read on this web site, the more I just want to choke the shit out of someone. And to think I actualy was in this group. fuckin A..... (reply to this comment)

from Monday, May 24, 2004 - 07:18 (Agree/Disagree?) 2 words come to mind;Desperate and Trap! (reply to this comment)

from Aita Monday, May 24, 2004 - 05:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Have you guys noticed this? You will receive amnesty for all of the following excommunicable offenses: * A member 21 or over engaging in consensual sex with a 16- or 17-year-old. This gives all the leacherous old men leaway to go after the young girls.....16-17 year olds. (reply to this comment)

From cm Monday, May 24, 2004, 10:31 (Agree/Disagree?) I think you read that wrong. It says that they would NOT receive amnesty for these excommunicable offense. ....and no, my name does not reflect my status in the group. (reply to this comment)

From Aita Monday, May 24, 2004, 10:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, then apparently over 21 year olds having sexual contact with 16-17 year olds is not an excommunicable offence. Read it again: 49. You WILL receive amnesty for all of the following excommunicable offenses: * Any male-with-male sexual interaction. * A member 21 or over engaging in consensual sex with a 16- or 17-year-old. * Those under 21 kissing teens out of their age range. * Substance abuse. * The continual voicing of doubts, criticisms, or skepticism, in a destructive manner designed to foster strife and schism, of Dad, Maria, Peter, the Word or the Family. 50. You will also receive amnesty for all probationary status offenses as listed in the "Charter Amendments 2003" GN, "Offenses Warranting Probationary Status." * (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Monday, May 24, 2004, 10:34 (Agree/Disagree?) ummm, no, I think you read it wrong...(reply to this comment)

From cm Monday, May 24, 2004, 10:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I stand corrected.(reply to this comment)

From heywood jablome Monday, May 24, 2004, 08:52 (Agree/Disagree?) I think amnesty is a desperate attempt to maintain their present number of personel. If they excommunicate all the child molesters, and sadists, Oh... and closet homosexsuals, in the family. Than there would be about 10 genuine missionaries left. Excluding lady bitch zerby and kelly. (reply to this comment)

from Vicky Monday, May 24, 2004 - 01:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Jules, are you considering posting portions of the GN outlining TFs views on Megan's tragic death? I am very interested in reading some of it. Speaking of outlandish attempts at control tactics, here is a prayer request I read recently, showing the degree to which some people are taken in by anything Zerby comes out with: "...This is an urgent prayer request for our son Patrick, 21 years old.On Wednesday May 19th, he suffered a severe mental collapse, which led to him having a "psychotic episode" very similar to what Joe went through as brought out in the recent Gn's "Choices and Consequences", including the very bizarre and shocking behaviors,violent tendencies, and talking but not making sense, etc. He was taken to a Mental Health Treatment Facility and is being held and treated with strong medications,etc.Patrick had in the past rejected both the Lord and the Family, but recently had had a change of heart and was trying to get back to the Lord and the Word. The Enemy has been attacking him very heavily with depression and negative thinking and the like for quite some time, and he was making an effort to go the Lord's way ,but was in a very weakened state of mind..." Does it not strike you as ironic that this poor guy suffered this 'episode' while in the process of re-establishing his contact with TF??? And yet, they seem to completely disregard the posibility that he may have suffered a mental breakdown at least in part as an indirect result of fam. influence on his obviously weak mental state? I don't know much at all about mental health but I would venture to say that surely the fam. environment with its complete control and fear-tactic policies could play a part in a mental breakdown!? Anyone studying this kind of thing who would like to offer an opinion? (reply to this comment)

From exister Monday, May 24, 2004, 09:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Cognitive Dissonance.(reply to this comment)

From anovagrrl Monday, May 24, 2004, 06:14 (Agree/Disagree?) My heart just aches for these poor kids with brain diseases who are in TF. Reconnecting with TF is likely to have put this young man in a place where he was encouraged to quit taking antipsychotic or mood stabilizaing medication. Finding the right medicine at the right dosage can be a difficult and lengthy process, which is why people with brain diseases are encouraged to continue treatment after discharge. There are very few magic bullets, and the side-effects of some meds can be seriously distressing. Decreased libido is one of the more common side-effects, which is often a major reason why people refuse to take them. Not all doctors/psychiatrists are equally skillful and knowledgable about medications, either. A major study in the US indicated that less that 30% of patients treated for a diagnosis of schizophrenia were medicated according to evidence-based standards. In the US public mental health system, doctors spend as little as 15 minutes during an outpatient visit reviewing medication issues with the patient. Family support is an extremely important factor in recovery from brain disease, inasmuch as they can advocate with the medical system for better treatment of their loved one. (reply to this comment)

From cheeks Monday, May 24, 2004, 06:32 (Agree/Disagree?) I believe they are called mental health issues. A brain disease is more like Caner and the like.(reply to this comment)

From anovagrrl Monday, May 24, 2004, 09:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Brain disease is the preferred term for the schizophrenias, bipolar disorders, major depressive disorders, and anxiety disorders used by the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI). When a medication radically alters symptoms like hallucinations, extreme mood swings, and obsessive-compulsive behaviors like pulling out your hair or handwashing 25 times day, the implication is that there is a neurochemical basis to the problem, i.e., a disease. Violence, poverty, and emotional, sexual & physical abuse are mental health issues. So is recreational drug use. Some forms of brain disease (post-traumatic stress disorder, which is an anxiety disorder) are the direct consequence of traumatic injuries to the central nervous system and the limbic system. It's similar to having a heart attack (a disease) as a consequence of environmental stressors like obesity, smoking, lack of exercise, etc. Nevertheless, the brain is "diseased" inasmuch as the bioneurochemistry of the brain is "not balanced." Some forms of brain disease--particularly with those that have a strong hereditary influence--are aggravated and made worse by mental health issues like violence, poverty & abuse, including substance abuse. All of us experience imbalances in our neurobiology in varying forms. For example, with Pre Menstrual Syndrome, the endocrine system goes into a hormonal flux that prompts symptoms such as extreme irritability, crying, etc. Neurobiologists are only just beginning to understand the relationship of the endocrine system to brain functioning, but there is a large body of evidence that points to these factors as significant components of mental health. Since there is a wide variation in what is a "normal" amount of imbalance, we can evaluate whether serious disease processes are taking place by looking at the impact that symptoms have on behavioral functioning. Irrational beliefs and unrealistic attitudes often attend brain diseases like bipolar disorder major depressive disorder. These are mental health issues. We create intrapsychic stress on brain functioning through the impact of certain mental constructs (the mind). For example, if I believe I have to always sacrifice myself and my needs for the sake of others, I can and do create a lot of stress on my neurochemical functioning. That stress often leads to symptoms recognized as defining major depressive disorder. The best analogy for what occurs to the neurons and synapses of the brain is like that of a long-distance runner on a hot day. If the runner doesn't replenish the body fluids lost by the sweat of exercise or respond to the approximation of internal body heat with external heat temperatures, that person will go into heat exhaustion and/or shock. The brain does the same type of thing when we persistently deny the physiological needs of the nervous system. If you persisently deny yourself simple pleasures (reading a book, listening to music, writing a letter, going for a walk, planting a garden) because you believe you must meet the needs of other people first or obey some external authority and "die to self" or that the salvation of humanity depends on your heroic self-sacrifice, your brain will become diseased. What happens (in the simplest terms) is that your seratonin and dopamin neurotransmitters go "dry." These are chemicals that make us feel good and keep our mood states and perceptive processes balanced. So maybe I decide to smoke some weed and "chill out." That's called self-medication, and it is one of the major reasons people abuse recreational drugs. What I am describing are disease processes. However, health is maintained and supported by social conditions. If I do not have social support, it is a lot harder to recover from hip surgery. If people are telling me "it's all in your head" (i.e., not real, doesn't exist) or "just get over it" or "examine your life for disobedience and sin and rebuke Satan," then I I will have a very hard time healing and recovering from hip replacement surgery. In fact, if I think it's all in my head, and I decide to run the Boston marathon instead of going to physical therapy, I'm likely to do so much damage to my hip that I permanently loose a leg. These same things hold true with recovery from brain disease. One other point: alcoholism and other drug addictions are also disease processes. There is a HUGE body of scientific literature on this subject, and it's no longer considered debatable whether alcoholism and addiction should be treated as diseases. When we consider the complexity of neurochemistry and how psychoactive substances like alcohol, crack & marijuana affect neural processes, it is easy to understand how we put our brains at risk for disease through irresponsible recreational drug use. Abuse of drugs and alcohol will cause permanent, irreversible changes in the neural structures and chemical processes of the brain the same way eating a diet of nothing but Big Macs, fries, and soft drinks will cause permanent, irreversible changes in our body metabolism. (reply to this comment)

From ack Wednesday, January 12, 2005, 11:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Jesus fucking Christ! So write a book already.(reply to this comment)