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from DeeJay Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 20:51 (Agree/Disagree?) I can't say that i was ever made to feel that way by my peers. I think all the other kids I grew up with there were just as naive as i was, and we were all after the same things - trying to extend "get-out" time, and get away from our parents and onto the basketball court during "family time". Escaping "dish duty", getting the easiest job on "JJT". Oh and getting the honey-dip doughnut when we had to go "personal witnessing". I do have to say however that sadly this was not the case with my parents. They were most definitely,"second-class". If there was a personal problem in the home, they always had to be the first to apologise and "admit" their wrongdoings. If someone was to sleep in the basement cuz there was one room too few, they had to "acknowledge their spiritual elders". many of which i might add had been members for considerably shorter periods than they had. Being that they were not from the west, which as you say the TF was from, they had to "prove their loyalty" to whatever extent the leaders thought satisfactory (which in my opinion, was never to be attained. somehow since they were from a different country, they could never truly understand what TF was about). My parents were never allowed positions of leadership or responsibility. ie: home shepherd, until TF decided they wanted to try translating "the tools" into the local language. Even then, it had to be under the supervision of someone who know nothing of studio work simply because he was, "strong in the Lord" and could therefore make more "prayerful decisions". One point that i have to mention is the constant ridicule of their limited english. Wasn't voluntarily joining and the suicide of your own life in the name of TF enough? I think this was a ridiculous and hypocritical attitude to come from people who were supposed trying to "win" more "disciples". How do you expect to reach people and ridicule then at the same time? Lastly, when my parents needed financial help due to the government instigating a health system, THEY WERE TOLD TO GO FM because ah....WE CAN'T HELP YOU. Fucking assholes. After a lifetime (24 years) of service. If that's not a fuck you in the ass and then lick it up yourself, i don't know what is. I guess this applies not just to non-europeans/americans. The effects that it has had on my life: I do not speak my own national language. I have no credible schooling, which makes it very difficult to succeed. I will never truly relate to my own countrymen and peers. They will forever see me as an "outsider". I have never been to the States or Europe, but i hold many of their views, opinions, and ideals. a plus at times, but it definitely doesn't help my "fitting in". In the eyes of my relatives, my parents THREW THEIR LIFE AWAY, and i am expected to repeat their failures. (reply to this comment)

from Cual es mi patria? Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 18:51 (Agree/Disagree?) I think that that is a very interesting point, although I as a national in Mexico can´t say that I was descriminated in the least, I can´t really speak for all of the nationals, because my parest were always shepherds. I always lived in sheperd homes & was one of the "special" kids in lots of ways, not that I even noticed that then. ( my Dad tried to make up for it by telling our care-takers to be extra strict with my sister & I so we didn´t let it go to OUR heads....yeah right) My parents didn´t have money of their own, but I htink that they made a lot of shepherd friends & made a name for themselves in TF very quickly & while they were very young so we had a lot of special treatment with the other shepherds kids ( mostly American) and a lot of crazy shit that we had to see & go through because those homes were the ones that always did the fucked up shit. But still I remember that it wasn´t very easy either because usually my sister & I were the ONLY national kids of the bunch of part of the few & there were times when we felt left out in some ways, like comparing our relatives & gifts that we would get from them etc.. And there were times as a kid that I can honestly say that I wished I was from the states, not because I really wanted to be from there, but I felt very confused because I was almost raised as an American & yet I knew I wasn´t & I had no nationality to relate to. I am very glad that my younger brothers & sisters are in school here in Mexico & they know about their country & about their history, because to this day I know more about American history & Brasilian history than I do about Mex. history & that is embarrassing & a shame, it is still hard to realate to my own nationality.....but that is something that I have to deal with every day because I don´t think this will ever go away.... (reply to this comment)

From The latina wanna-be! Friday, May 21, 2004, 20:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey girl! I know how you feel. My situation is a bit different. Although I am blond/blue eyed (and absolutely fabulous! hehe) I always considered myself a "latin" woman. Although I may not "look" latin, I feel and act like a "latin" woman. I love the Spanish language, latin music and yes, OH YEEESSS, the latin men!!! (Any of you latin men reading this?) Coming to the States after 23 yrs of living overseas was like a culture shock! OMG! You can drop a quarter in a coke machine and out comes your soda! NO more going to the "abarrotera" to buy your "Esprite" in a plastic bag with a straw in it! Or how about buying a bag of already made tortillas from the supermarket shelf? No more standing in line with all the other "senoras" with a little towel in my hand to wrap the freshly made tortillas. Instead of going to the slaughter house and telling the butcher which part of the cow's body you wanna take home, now you can have a nice little pre-season/cooked piece of meat that you can prepare in minutes! (in the freakin' microwave, for cryin' out loud!) Sigh! Even with all the conveniences of a modern country, I still miss all the little things (and crazy things) I used to do in Mexico. Like going to the market, standing in line for my tortillas, running to catch the 100 yr old city bus that only comes around every 5 minutes, making my little "atoles" at night, eating "conchas" for breakfast and having to run to the back yard with only my towel on because I forgot to light the pilot of the propane water heater before getting in the shower! I felt so "one" with the people that most of the time I didn't even realize they were staring at me because I looked different. Even though I'm an "American citizen" I don't know much about America (not that I don't want to) its simply that I haven't lived here long enough. You remember Estie when you and I used to take the city bus to our downtown "office" in Mexico City? Man, I remeber we were a traffic accident waiting to happen! You caught the eye of every man in town. We used to get into a lot of trouble too.Especially with B & R! We first met each other in Brazil. Try and guess who I am!(reply to this comment)

From katrim4 Thursday, May 20, 2004, 19:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey, I bet I know you. I grew up in Mexico most of my life and for the most part my parents were "in the know" in Mexico. You can look me up by my profile. But I know what you mean. I never even set foot in the US ( I am 1/2 american) until I was 10 yrs old. My dad was afraid that he wouldn't be able to cross the border with us. But I always felt more american than mexican just because we spoke english at home, were goverend by americans and related to native Mexcans as outsiders. At the same time though, being "native" carried an alomst shameful type of feeling to it. Even though I live in the States now, I would love to some day be able to move back to Mexico as I do think that that is where "home" is.(reply to this comment)

From Cual es mi patria? Friday, May 21, 2004, 19:02 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah I know you , my profile is under the nick "Estie"....you can look me up, I think I hung out with your sister Christina a lot as a kid. Yeah, if anyone knows what I´m talking about is you ....you guys were there.(reply to this comment)

from Jedran Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 00:04 (Agree/Disagree?) I spent most of my childhood in Thailand and there the national kids were always treated as special cases while we had to do all the work. They had language classes and extra activities while we had to do their work so I don't think they were mistreated. Of course this was at the time when they were pushing for all national kids to look good and be able to speak their own language. (reply to this comment)

from Christy Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 07:51 (Agree/Disagree?) My stepbrother, who is from South America, was occasionally discriminated against. He grew up speaking only English and and from the time he was quite young, didn't live in Spanish-speaking countries. I was appalled when some silly teen girls started calling him "Mexican"--in a derrogatory sense of the word. Later, I found out that a few Family adults also made demeaning comments and treated him like he was a secondary citizen on account of his skin color or race. However, even though he experienced some discrimination in the Family, it was very little compared with what happened when he moved to the States. He was almost automatically profiled into a particular group or catagory on account of his skin color and last name. From what I understand, this was a major culture shock for him to have to deal with. It's been interesting for me to see that after leaving, my brother has identified more with the Hispanic culture in the States than with the white culture. This may seem natural to some, but I feel like he grew up in a very "white" environment, and it would make more sense for him to blend into a white or racially mixed social group. He has even started speaking English with and accent, something he never did before coming to the States. (reply to this comment)

from Christy Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 07:47 (Agree/Disagree?) My stepbrother, who is from South America, was occasionally discriminated against. He grew up speaking only English and and from the time he was quite young, didn't live in Spanish-speaking countries. I was apalled when some silly teen girls started calling him "Mexican"--in a derrogatory sense of the word. Later, I found out that a few Family adults also made demeaning comments and treated him like he was a secondary citizen on account of his skin color or race. However, even though he experienced some discrimination in the Family, it was very little compared with what happened when he moved to the States. He was almost automatically profiled into a particular group or catagory on account of his skin color and last name. From what I understand, this was a major culture shock for him to have to deal with. It's been interesting for me to see that after leaving, my brother has identified more with the Hispanic culture in the States than with the white culture. This may seem natural to some, but I feel like he grew up in a very "white" environment, and it would make more sense for him to blend into a white or racially mixed social group. He has even started speaking English with and accent, something he never did before coming to the States. (reply to this comment)

from monique Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:25 (Agree/Disagree?) in japan none of the japanses kids spoke their language. many of the children we cared for spoke a hybrid we called "japalish." this was of course english and japanese mixed together. their grammar was horrible and there was really no understanding of either language in spelling or composition. now that they have grown up and left many of them have had to learn their native language on their own. leaving the cult and only speaking english had to be a very strange experience. i've heard stories of many of them feeling very ostracized from society. with no education, no understanding their native language and no skills with which to get a job. very very sad... (reply to this comment)

From idntfs Friday, July 22, 2005, 00:13 (Agree/Disagree?) the kids in japan spoke english not japalish or japlish.it was like this the parents would speak in japanese to there kids and the kids would reply in english.within the family in japan it was considered very uncool to be japanese.there was always this subtle racism.maybe thats why learning english and forgetting how to speak japanese was easy.and now its kinda hard for some to identify with there own country cause of all of that.(reply to this comment)

from highonhigh Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:19 (Agree/Disagree?) TF was always about money. Nationals that came to the TF with money where treated better usually had a position of leadership so the kids of this nationals had privilages that other kids of the lillte nobody grassroot people did not. Here in latin America leadership was always American with the help of the rich nationals. For example if Juan was just a humble little nobody peruvian. International leadership wouldn't have giving him so much power over the whole latin area. The main reason he has the position he has as top leader is because of his MONEY.And his children enjoy all the privilages of a rich daddy even above american children who's parents didn't have much money to impress the sect. (reply to this comment)

From blue Thursday, April 22, 2004, 12:23 (Agree/Disagree?) I totally agree with you, highonhigh. My mom was a "national" in South America. We came from a comfortable situation and my mom gave up all she had to TF, needless to say they were overjoyed. Presently, she does not even have a roof over her and my younger siblings' head and TF could not care less. She has given the best years of her life to this group and they have completely turned their back on the hand that fed them years ago. It's a long story, but let me tell you that Juan would never go thru a situation like that. I met Juan a couple of times, he would come and visit the homes driving the latest car/vans and all of his group would be wearing the best brand clothing and all he cared to ask me was if my dad (who has never been in TF) was sending us money every moth. Can you believe it? I wish I could give him a piece of my mind now.(reply to this comment)

From CHOLITO, pantalón blanco Thursday, April 22, 2004, 21:26 (Agree/Disagree?) does anyone know this guy´s real name, where he lives, etc... after all, he was part of Berg staff for some times, he knows things first hand. why don´t we put this guy into Jail here down South.(reply to this comment)

From blue Thursday, April 22, 2004, 12:23 (Agree/Disagree?) I totally agree with you, highonhigh. My mom was a "national" in South America. We came from a comfortable situation and my mom gave up all she had to TF, needless to say they were overjoyed. Presently, she does not even have a roof over her and my younger siblings' head and TF could not care less. She has given the best years of her life to this group and they have completely turned their back on the hand that fed them years ago. It's a long story, but let me tell you that Juan would never go thru a situation like that. I met Juan a couple of times, he would come and visit the homes driving the latest car/vans and all of his group would be wearing the best brand clothing and all he cared to ask me was if my dad (who has never been in TF) was sending us money every moth. Can you believe it? I wish I could give him a piece of my mind now.(reply to this comment)