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from cyborcosmic Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 04:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Why do you want to join a group? Have you ever thought about what your motivation is? The biggest misconception of all the organized religions about finding the truth is the belief that everyone must approach the truth in the same way. The path towards the truth is a highly individualized process. You cannot say, “This is the way, and this way applies for everyone.” (reply to this comment)

from highonhigh Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 11:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I have also travel to several countries & have seen lots of family members young and old but it is always the same. TF fighting for their own survival, feeding each other with the we are it doctrine, alianated from the real world & ALWAYS thinking of themselves better then the rest of the Christian world. But the truth is that now days TF are as far away from the basics of Christianity by putting the words of Zerby & Peter above the Word of Jesus in the BIble. The Bible is no longer the foundation for TF. How can a real born again Christian ask their 14 year old brother or son to belive in the loving Jesus revelation & practice. Do you know what the Bible says about the calling of spirits, messing it up with the departed ? What about all the false prophecies that never came to pass for example, when the leadership came out with the dead speaking (Marlin Monroe, John Lennon etc) they put out a whole GN with "jesus' speaking of the great sucess this new books will be around the globe.That never came to pass. What about "good works" compare with people that are dedicating their lives doing charity & helping others, TF is not even a drop in the ocean. As far as witnessing. TF does not have the power or the annoiting to witness the truth becasue they don't have the truth, again, compare them with the Christians of the world that they called numby pamby, wishywashy, this church Christians are leading peolple to the real Jesus of the Bible & not to some fake crazy nut they called jesus. Take a look at their work ,their fruit, their music, their witness. How the say in spanish "la familia se quedo atras hace mucho" Some of this musicians that TF called their music dirty waters are shinning with the true light. You also mention that the crimes commited are the individual's fault & that the group shouldn't be blame. But that is not so. Recently when Brasil was excomunicated one of the things the leadership was asking their member was to take their children out of school & discourage young people to persue a higher education. That for me is a very severe crime, because all the kids that have no one to defend their rights are being abuse & they have no way out. I wish with all my heart that insted of you go back to continue to be part of this deciving group, you would join the efforts to expose what the TF really is. Probably you will only understand how I feel if you have defenselss love ones still inside, receiving a mediocre education, washing dishes & cleaning batrooms until they are old enough to leave. (reply to this comment)

from merrily Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 05:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Thou alone hath the words of life. What does this scripture mean? Let's break it down. "Thou" they are refuring to Jesus. "Alone" meaning Him only. Hath the words of life. I think you answered your own question. There are so many other ways you could serve God and help mankind with out going that route. Sereously read your bible and find out for yourself what Christianity means to you. Then make an informed decision. Because if you are going back for the good works alone you are not making an informed decision. (reply to this comment)

from Mydestinyismine Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:23 (Agree/Disagree?) You asked questions that I think you should've been able to figure out yourself, if you could think clearly. Obviously you can't and still haven't broken free from the brainwashing. And trying to comment on the other stuff you said would be a waste of time. Plus others have already done a good job at that. But there is one thing that hasn't been said that I'd like to say. You said, "Personally I believe a lot of the SGs in the Family are being blamed for the mistakes of their parents and even a very select few of their peers. To me this doesn’t seem fair!!!". When you rejoin you realise that you're accepting all current beliefs and doctrines of TF and accepting responsibility for TF's actions: past, current and future. When TF is brought to trial for actual events what will you say? You do know that you can't say, I believe in this group and we've changed and according to our belief we forgive and forget? And I could be wrong but, the SGA's aren't critisized that much on this site. One other thing, from what you said it seems you lived in some sort of fake home. Maybe you should try traveling around abit and finding out the truth. Do you really think you left because of slander that isn't true. It's all true! When I left the only help I got was to move out. Alot of my friends were kicked out. The root is rotten and you should know the verse on that one. Have you actually read all TF's doctrines? When's the last time you read your bible? Most in TF don't read their bible to learn more. They read WS publications that they believe are based on the bible or prophecy. If you actually checked your bible you'd realise that TF is so contrary to alot of stuff. Didn't you ever wonder why Berg critisized St.Paul so much? It's because TF doctrines didn't go along with St. Pauls. Berg picked what he liked, what he could twist and disputed the rest. I understand your desire to help others. But like someone clearly posted on this site somewhere else, "A missionary is someone that gives to the community and not someone that takes". You should seriously consider that. There's lots of other groups that you could participate in. I'm wondering what you been doing the last year. You obviously still believe churches are bad or are in a country where you can't speak the language. You're way of thinking is still very family orientated and I think you need to let go of that. One suggestion that might fancy you, rejoin and fuck non-stop until you're pregnant or impregnate someone. Have the kid and then think about that childs life. If you still don't figure it out then you still aren't thinkin straight. (reply to this comment)

from AA Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 20:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Gee Whiz, I left the a coupla years back and recently became a Christian. I became a Christian by going to a Pentecostal Church and following the Bible. Not Zerby and Peter's version where being loving includes having sexual relations with other peoples partners and saying it's okay to have sex with children, (remember that doctrine has never been retracted, only stopped because of the authorities). And also other anti bible doctrines like don't work a job, the bible says labour with your hands (work)so you'll be able to look after your self and your family and help those in need. The Apostle Paul was a tentmaker.I know the "system" hasn't got the answers but I assure you neither has the Family. In fact the Family is the system with even more problems than normal. If you want to know what serving God is really like I suggest you meet up with Christians who don't twist the Bible for their own cultish purposes. Although I see u want to join a cult that has "the law of love sexually" so I guess u won't jump at that opportunity. (reply to this comment)

From Wolf Sunday, February 08, 2004, 01:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, I think the central point is that Gee Whiz wants to do other people's wives.(reply to this comment)

from steam Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 20:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Gee Whiz, After reading all the thought through comments, with many good points rationaly presented (as well as a few emotionaly charged ones that would have been hard to take due to their offensive nature regardless of their validity) I am curious to know if you see the points brought up as valid. I left awhile back, but for awhile when I was in although I saw a lot of the ridiculousness of things I still believed the line about Zerby and Kelly being sincere. After reading the articles James Pen wrote with very pointed and clear evidence, and their evasive replies, it became clear to me that at best they are sincere only to the extent that they sincerely think they are absolutely above all laws and moral requirements. They can lie and deceive at will, publish corny prophecies about how they are the greatest thing ever and tell themselves they are not subject to basic Christian requirements of honesty and making amends. Please post a response if you have a different perspective now because knowing that once I was an absolute believer, I would like to respect you. But you would have to actually face serious issues head on. Are you going to entrust your entire life and spiritual welfare to someone that you cannot trust to be completely honest? Have a great day. (reply to this comment)

from KD Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 19:14 (Agree/Disagree?) You pathetic loser you have certainly written the stupidest thing I've ever read. You want to rejoin TF because they are Christians? what a dumb fuck you are, do you even know that Christians are suppose to base there beliefs on the Bible, well you obviously haven't been reading yours because Zerby couldn't be further from true Christianity if she tried. I'll tell you one thing if Zerby doesn’t pay for all the crimes she's committing (and clearly the facts are against her) not only will she have her sorry ass behind bars as she deserves, but she will burn in hell for eternity to come. After reading what you wrote its obvious why you can’t possibly be a Christian on your own (or a normal human being for that matter), you’ve got no brains for company. And as for you trying (very lamely) to defend them, well it just makes me wonder if you are not as much of a criminal as they are, unless of course you really are as stupid as you sound. (reply to this comment)

from enigma Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 12:46 (Agree/Disagree?) Why should we convince you not to return to TF? Like you said you didn’t want to leave in the first place. Like a dog return to your vomit. TF will receive you with open arms unlike the world where you have to work for everything you receive. I expect in the near future to see a testimony in an up coming GN on how the “system” was hell and you are so glad to be back where you belong in TF. Talk about being used. (reply to this comment)

from moonbeam Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 12:23 (Agree/Disagree?) This isn't the cult appreciation society. (reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Friday, February 06, 2004 - 23:29 (Agree/Disagree?) You said: "Personally I believe a lot of the SGs in the Family are being blamed for the mistakes of their parents and even a very select few of their peers. To me this doesn’t seem fair!!! " You also said you would still be associated with the Family if it weren't for the slander you received that is attached to the Family. So, why don't the SGs who want to give their whole life in dedication of service to God and in the service of others form a separate group entirely and make a clean break from the Family? That would give them a group for support, a clean name that isn't tainted by the crimes of their parents, and a they can continue giving their lives in service for what they believe. Perhaps you could stir up some of your friends who are still dedicated to God's work and form such a group? It would take a lot of work, effort and dedication, but it would probably be worth it to bring about a new missionary movement that will be able to get it right the second time around. (reply to this comment)

From farmer Saturday, February 07, 2004, 06:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Goood idea.I could think of supporting that, but FCF, the TF socialwork-facade, on the other hand never.(reply to this comment)

from farmer Friday, February 06, 2004 - 21:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Whom do you mean, by quoting: you alone have the words of life? If you love reading the Bible & compare it diligently with TFpubs you cannot help but finding huge, severe misinterpretations & may be it's true, that TF is too blind to see it...the blind leading the blind...would I know of any other group better than TF?To start with, it has to some degree been discussed on various boards, whether TF could be counted still as a Christian group.Read Rev. 2:18ff if you think, that Jesus could tolerate a behaviour as we have it within TF??!!!...It'd be too lengthy, too repetitive & boring for many to repeat all the scripture, that TF is breaking, much of it you'd find described here or by Ed Priebe etc. So I am sorry..no I am not sorry, I am glad to tell you, TF has only at the surface "words of life"...just do some research about the various Christian Sects & you'd be amazed, how many claim to follow more than others the Bible...I hope, that you don't mean Zerbies pseudo-prophecies with words of life... To answer your question: You are still very young & could get a very good preparation for serving in a group that deserves the label Christian....I bet, that in almost any area of the world you'd find a Christian group with a better record than TF...granted, not all live together, not all perform miracles, but how many healing miracles have you witnessed?? Few I bet...it's one thing which puzzled Keda years back... too many cases of meningitis & deafness as a result of trusting, "having faith"...including death cases! And believe me, this bad feeling of missing loved ones can be countered....I don't see any good reason why you should join. I tell you, since I left, I met people more dedicated & "clean" than TF, I wish I had met them instead of TF.But I learn from that mistake of having joined,having been deluded for a long time.Can you learn now!!!???(Or is this a "testballoon" ,like Holon could assume, of TF) (reply to this comment)

From Wolf Saturday, February 07, 2004, 00:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah, Mr. GeeWhiz, look what happens to people who spend most of their lives in the cult...BTW, what on earth is a testballoon?(reply to this comment)

From farmer Saturday, February 07, 2004, 07:21 (Agree/Disagree?) 16years of tithing etc. are an awful long time...however not most of my life or I'd be of an age I'd like for some reasons ; ) my wrong...would weatherballoon be more appropiate? The analogy is about sending something up in a region/sphere, where you don't normally live to get information & data you need for something somewhere else, but since it's not always & only the weather people are interested in, may be that's why I heard & read that more in my language...suspecting difficulties in understanding that, I put the quotation marks.(reply to this comment)

from Earth to Author Friday, February 06, 2004 - 21:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Permit me to inform you that the Family's continued espousal of the Law of Love will make it hard for them to find society's acceptance. So much for trying to escape reproof based on what is supposedly "in the past." Look at what the English judge had to say (from subheading "The Evidence on Sexual Attitudes Generally": The oral evidence was overwhelming that the members of The Family generally adopted a freer lifestyle than was the norm in any of the countries in which they live. [...] I find the Law of Love to be a pernicious doctrine because in liberating the ordinary sexual inhibitions, the Law of Love empowers those with strong sexual urges but poor judgment to act indiscriminately and it put pressure upon the weak to succumb to that which does in fact harm them and infringe their freedom. In short the Law of Love was liable to be abused and was calculated to be abusive." (reply to this comment)

from Nan Friday, February 06, 2004 - 20:20 (Agree/Disagree?) We must not be talking about the same child-abusing cult. WE'RE talking about the group known as the Family. What are you talking about? It's not necessary to "slant" anything. Child abuse is child abuse. Rape is rape. Medical neglect is medical neglect. Exploitation is exploitation. Facts are facts. "Above average education"? By whose standards? Not any established traditional standards. Your grammar, logical reasoning, sentence and paragraph structure are about at the fifth grade level. Are you eleven, the age you should be in fifth grade? I should say, are you ten, then that would make your education level "above average". We haven't moved on? You mean we haven't forgiven unremorseful child abusers who have never even made attempts at a personal, sincere apology and have not committed to make any sort of meaningful repairs, much less stopped exploiting, in many cases, our younger siblings? Well, then I refer you to my "forgiveness" article I just posted. Why haven't you moved on? Why are you here condescending and judgmental of people and events you admittedly have never experienced and really don't even understand? Move on deary. Move right back into the comfort of a delusional cult. No wonder you can't hack it in the real world. It's a tough place for people with delusions. (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Friday, February 06, 2004 - 17:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Your post is very similar to what I would’ve said two years ago. I also have happy memories from my time in the cult, especially the last few years when I was in a young people only home where we lived as we wanted. And I also value helping others, which I suppose is what you mean by “serving the Lord” (after all, Jesus repeatedly said that serving him meant serving others). I agree that being a missionary is much more pleasant if free sex is involved. I can’t say I ever liked sharing my things, but if that’s your trip, that’s fine with me too. I also agree that the Family in it’s current state is often misrepresented on this site; that’s probably because many of the individuals who post here have not been in the group any time recently. Allow me to tell you about some of the ways my mind has changed in the last two years. This is by no means a comprehensive list: 1. The Family has become more benign outwardly. The leaders, however, are the same criminals they always were. Don’t take my word for it; read portions of Berg and Zerby’s (Maria) old writings such as “the Little Girl Dream”, “Rape”, “Sex With Grandmother”, “The Girl Who Wouldn’t”, “the Summit Jewels”. Then read Justice Ward’s judgment on the BI case (yes, it’s long, but it’s the most descriptive and fair document available on the Family. Trust me, you’ll come to the same conclusion after reading it). You’ll see that any changes the leaders have made are cosmetic. The Family’s current leaders still believe that Berg was acting “in love” when he had sexual contact with his daughters, granddaughter and other teenagers, and exposed his son to orgies. They still believe that adult / child sex is OK (as evidenced by the quotes on the subject that Maria included in the Good Thots) – a careful reading of Maria’s writings makes it clear that she outlawed adult / child sex only because of the legal trouble. They still believe in protecting rapists, and silencing rape victims (I hope you realize that sex with a child is rape even if it’s consensual). And first in foremost, they believe in lying for their cause – lying to everybody and anybody, including (most of all) their own members. I also believe they sincerely believe they are “winning the world for Jesus”. However, they have a very singular view of what that means: enforcing their control over the group by any means necessary, including lying (after all, dumb sheep often can’t take the strong meat of the truth). If you don’t believe me, write them asking some pointed questions about things that can be proven from Family publications (such as, did David Berg have sexual contact with his daughter Faithy Berg?) 2. You wrote “when I left the Family it was not weird” – what’s your definition of weird? Do you enjoy masturbating to Jesus? How about the new demons that the leaders think up every other day? And I would really like to see your key that morphs into a sword – or did you leave that behind in the cult? 3. One of the requirements for being in the group is believing that David Berg is not only a prophet, but “the endtime prophet”. I challenge you to compile a list of everything that Berg predicted, then mark an X by the ones that never happened, and a tick by the ones that did. I can tell you right now what the results will be: you’ll have about two ticks and at least 100 X’s. An individual of average intelligence guesses the future correctly more often that David Berg. And don’t start on “that’s because the end time isn’t here yet” – I’m talking about things that David Berg said would happen in his life time. Any of these ring a bell: nuclear war, communist take over of the world, it could happen this year (every year starting 1978), the Russians winning the Falkland war, Israel invaded, the crash of the dollar, need I go on? 4. What do you think about the current leader’s “prophetic” abilities? Have any of the following come true: Y2K disasters, The cult becoming a financial power, a mass returning of former members, the Activated magazine selling (bugging the shit out of people until they take a subscription doesn’t count), etc. 5. I agree that children in the cult are no longer in serious danger of sexual abuse. However, they are still being abused mentally and physically: they are discouraged from getting a good education (I hope I don’t have to tell you why CVC doesn’t count), they are required to lie and beg for money or handouts, and in some cases they have to live in sub-standard conditions, because their parents are too lazy to do some real work. 6. Of course Peter was a nice guy when you met him. What would he live on if he went around acting like an asshole? God forbid that he should get a real job (flipping burgers is probably his only marketable skill, or maybe he could be a gigolo for Jesus). Being “nice” doesn’t make somebody right, or a good person. I’m tired of writing; if you want to rejoin, please don’t let anybody stop you. Don’t be surprised if you wake up with the fleas, though. Or more appropriately, if you wake up one day in the same cell as that “Peter” guy you like so much. (reply to this comment)

from Are you that lonely? Friday, February 06, 2004 - 15:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Looking for a group with TF:s "zeal", the free sex and a missionary cape which will make you feel good but minus all the weirdness...??? Do you have any idea of what that leaves, dude? If you liked the exclusiveness, the missionary role, the dedication and the sex so much (and seeing that Peter and Maria are such wonderful people) why did you ever leave? I just think you miss the tightness of being part of a group (and having sex so readily at hand) which is why you're working so hard on a pro-list to go back. (reply to this comment)

from Holon Friday, February 06, 2004 - 15:51 (Agree/Disagree?) I think this might be some sort of family propaganda I dont know, but last I heard and I may be wrong about this but the family doesnt "wish people good luck"Now I may be old school I dont know ,I have been out for 14+ years.But sence when does the family wish anyone "Good Luck"? (reply to this comment)

from frmrjoyish Friday, February 06, 2004 - 15:39 (Agree/Disagree?) This article has pissed me off more than anything else I've read on this site! Since anything I say would be on the same line of what those below have so eloquently stated, I'll just say one thing: You obviously can't hack out here in the real world, so go ahead and take your Family loving, childabuser supporting, ignorant, naieve, and condescending ass back to The Family! You surely won't be missed!!!!! (reply to this comment)

from Vicky Friday, February 06, 2004 - 15:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Perhaps one of the reasons most of the comments on this site do not deal with happy memories is that a lot of the people who post here don't have many happy memories! I happen to know that some people (including myself) do talk about the fact that we have very good memories and plenty of positive things to look back on. I am glad that you have positive memories; I am also one of those who had a good, happy childhood - In fact I was happy a lot of the time during my teen years too, or at least that's the way I remember it. But I think you need to face the fact that many people will not have had the happy times that you had. If you came here expecting a family appreciation club then you will be in for a shock - It's logical that if people loved it so much they would still be in TF and not posting on this site... There are some people who post here who endured years of terrible abuse, and no one has the right to tell them that they should be looking on the bright side. "Moving on" happens differently for different people, and for many who are still angry about how they grew up, thrashing it out here is one of the ways they can eventually get it out of their system. As far as your opinion that people should "get over" the things that happened long ago, well, I wonder how you would feel if you, your little sister or maybe a brother had been sexually abused, even years ago, and no one cared? Does it not bother you that it's the SAME people who run the family now and that they still have not accepted that these things should not have happened??? You say, "Having personally met Peter..." - how long did you personally meet him for? - A day, a week perhaps? People who are unscrupulous can still come across as charming, kind and sincere. It's a fact, for example, that most sexual abuse is carried out by trusted family members or close friends, to the point that it can go on for years without a child's parents (or relatives, in the case of incestuous abuse) suspecting anything at all. It is obvious that many of those perverts are perfectly capable of putting on a nice show. My point being that just because Kelly was really "nice", encouraging and charming to you for a while when you met him at some meeting, does not necessarily mean that you should trust him, Zerby or anyone else with the power to completely control your life and what you do with it. If you decide to join the family again then that's your prerogative, you can do what you want, but I think you should be careful that you are not just going back to what is familiar and "safe", instead of really lettin go of the past and working to make something out of your life. I am also wondering why you mentioned "The Law of Love" as one of the main characteristics of the organisation that you would like to find? Why is it that important to you? Can you not change the world or do good things without mixing it with that kind of stuff - I mean, I know most men fantasise about free sex and unlimited sexual partners ; ) but dressing it up as some kind of divine commandment that makes you more holy than the next guy is a bit much in my book! And before you say that the Law of Love is so much more than just promiscuous sex without a guilty conscience to struggle with, let me say that I know it may mean more in theory, but to be honest I think the sexual part is the only one that most family members ever bother to put into action. I wonder if you ever really did leave the family in heart, because I know that I lived 'outside' for a number of years without really making the final break psychologically, and it completely held up my progression on the path of finding myself, figuring out what I truly wanted from life and how best to accomplish it. If you haven't yet looked for an alternative - without the idea in the back of your mind that TF is the only place to be, the highest calling, etc, etc - then I think it's too early to run back to TF just for the sake of it. If you want to do something fulltime that will satisfy your desire to do something altruistic with your life then why not try going abroad and working with a voluntary organisation? - You don't necessarily have to work in a religious capacity in order to do God's work. Why not try a few more avenues before you make your decision, keeping in mind that the things that made you leave are still going to be there if and when you do go back to TF! (reply to this comment)

from seeker Friday, February 06, 2004 - 12:31 (Agree/Disagree?) You sound outraged by the fact that FGAs sexually abused children in TF. Good. Possibly many people here are wondering why you are planning to rejoin a group whose current leaders institutionalised the sexual abuse of minors for years, not to mention a lot of other horrible stuff. These same leaders have repeatedly refused to come clean about this, nor have they offered to help the thousands of children who suffered as a direct result of their policies. Instead, the leaders still claim to be the direct voice of God, the leaders of God, and demand that CMs give them unquestioning loyalty. Many members of the group are guilty of crimes, but the current leaders are some of the most guilty. The Family is not some benevolent group. It all hinges on Maria and Peter. Take them out of the equation and the group would cease to exist as we know it. So if you join and defend the group, you will inevitably be censured by "normal" people who find Maria and Peter's policies and past track record horrific. And any adult, whatever generation, who chooses to remain in the group and accept and defend Maria and Peter's actions and doctrines has to accept some sort of collective responsibility and accountability for the sins of the organization. Belonging to the group means something. It says something about you. After all, if the FG members had taken direct responsibility and accountability for their actions instead of abdicating them, they would have refused to go along with Berg and all the crap would never have happened. I don't have a lot of sympathy for most adults, whatever generation, still in the group. Zerby has repeatedly asked any doubters or the like to leave. They have chosen to stay, signing declarations of unquestioning loyalty and pledging fealty several times. Their tithes support Zerby and co. Many may not be guilty of crimes, and many may be trying to do some good, but they all have to take some responsibility for perpetuating what is essentially a criminal organization. (reply to this comment)

From GeeWhiz Friday, February 06, 2004, 14:49 (Agree/Disagree?) "I don't have a lot of sympathy for most adults, whatever generation, still in the group. Zerby has repeatedly asked any doubters or the like to leave. They have chosen to stay, signing declarations of unquestioning loyalty and pledging fealty several times. Their tithes support Zerby and co. Many may not be guilty of crimes, and many may be trying to do some good, but they all have to take some responsibility for perpetuating what is essentially a criminal organization." I think at this point in TF's history most of the issues are of a more theological nature, rather than criminal. Perhaps you are refering to things that happened over a decade ago?(reply to this comment)

From cassy Sunday, February 08, 2004, 08:52 (Agree/Disagree?) I see what you're saying and understand because your experiences were fine, it's hard for you to imagine anything else. I think what's so difficult about this (and not just in the family) is usually people who commit crimes also have a good side to them, even Hitler! What made me choose to withdraw my support from the Family leadership was because they refused to acknowledge the reality of the situation, of SGA's who were broken and bleeding and hurt. I lived in Zerby's home and know first hand the deception. they do not trust their own members. In fact, they use the good intentions of "normal" family members, people like you and me, to cover for themselves? Doesn't that make you sick? Why would you want to join a group whose leader you can't talk to, can't know where they live, and see for yourself first hand what they are like? I know first hand how WS doesn't care about the individual. They want to perserve their group. And if you get in the way, you'll be cast aside faster than you can blink an eye. Does that match up to the sample of Jesus? I'd be interested in hearing your comments on what I wrote in "Character Assassination No More" on this site. If you do feel that you need to work in a group, I met a couple recently who after leaving had joined the Salvation Army and I was quite impressed with it all. I could give you possibly get you in contact with them. The other thing is, there's a great study done by a friend on the Family's interpretation of the Law of Love and how unbased on the Bible it is. I think what you have to decide is whether you want to be Christian or not. If so, you gotta follow the Bible. If you're looking for a mix of your own beliefs, then so be it. But why would you want to give your life for something that you know is, on the least, not based on any real fact. If you re-read Acts and other books that study the life of the early disciples, they all had other jobs and ways of supporting themselves. They didn't beg for a living. Is that living by faith? I am personally involved in Charity work and I am impressed with how they operate and support themselves, and find myself humbled and in awe with their motivation, purity and dedication. I beg to differ that the Family is in any way superior. (reply to this comment)

From Karie Saturday, February 07, 2004, 08:21 (Agree/Disagree?) This is very much indeed a criminal matter. We are not only talking about things that happened decades ago, but about things that happened one, two, three years ago, and surprise—still happen today. Child abuse is a sickness. It is not something that desperate prayer can take away. Unless the abusers have received professional help, and have atoned for their actions in some way, and are no longer allowed to be around children, I am certain abuse will continue. I am not just speaking out of my ass here. A couple years ago I received info that a minor (12 yr. Old) was being sexually abused (I would add emotionally, and educationally but that is harder to prove). I reported this info to my parents who essentially told me that I am letting my own bitterness cloud my judgement. I then wrote a letter to Zerby and Co., who never replied. I then spoke again to my dad who agreed to speak to a CRO. The CRO reasurred him that I was a "bitter ex-member". Finally, the victim got the courage to report it herself and the abuser received a slap on the wrist. To make a long story short, the abuse went on for a couple of years until finally something was done about it. His punishment was extremely mild compared to what he deserved, but at least the child is nowhere near him. I tell this example to point out that the leaders (in this case Zerby, Kelly and a CRO) knew about it, and my parents knew about it, but still nothing was done. Again, this was only a couple years ago, not decades. Why was it allowed to continue? Because to the family it is not a big deal. I had to put pressure on them to do anything about it. Until they thought they had something to lose they were perfectly content to let things go on. It was their job to make this a big deal, not mine! All I should have had to do was mention what I heard, and they should have been outraged enough to begin an investigation. That is what normal, "good" people do. Child abusers choose to ignore the pleas of their children. I should also point out that he had admitted to molesting her. This was not a figment of the victim’s imagination or mine. I could go on with many more examples of criminal behavior happening in the last couple years, but I don’t have the time, energy or articulation to delve into this huge topic. Suffice it to say they are all criminals. They have either: Participated first hand in criminal activities Witnessed the abuse and did nothing about it Heard about the abuse from their children or others and yet did nothing about it Helped to cover up their own or someone else’s abuse Or simply Read the writings of their prophets and chose to raise their children in a group that promoted child abuse. I believe that at least one of the above applies to all FG family members.(reply to this comment)

From Banshee Friday, February 06, 2004, 16:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude, I am sorry, but you have swallowed TF’s lies hook, line, and sinker! You are just sitting there repeating the “PR” quotes that TF publications has fed to their underlings ever since the court cases forced them to clean up their public image. And the reason I know this is because I was saying the same thing you were not too long ago myself, even though I was a victim. Ironically, I tried to repeat all the same pat justifications, one of the reasons being because I wanted to believe that I was okay, that I truly wasn’t victimized. I gag on those justifications today. Because of your age, you were too young to remember the stifling sexual atmosphere that most of us older SGs grew up in and were forced to endure, not to mention that you do not know even a small portion of the stories behind the people that you are now attempting in your ignorance to psychoanalyze. Although others already have said this to you, and I know how much people hate to have to read repetitive posts, you are apparently lacking some common sense (in spite of your declared “above average education”), so I must repeat it, for your sake: JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS NOT WRONG!!!! As long as a crime is not rectified (and believe me, TF’s crimes ARE NOT rectified) it will never be right, no matter how many purges and PR stunts TF wants to pull. Why do I feel, though, as if I am talking to a wall? Oh, because I am.(reply to this comment)

From seeker Friday, February 06, 2004, 15:29 (Agree/Disagree?) No, I'm talking about things like tax evasion, harboring criminals, systemically defrauding the public, unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. The Family, as an organization, is guilty of all these offences and many many more. Just about every top leader that I know of is either guilty of the sexual abuse of children, or aiding and abetting those who did abuse children. Anyone who has been a leader in the group for any length of time has had to commit criminal acts, conspire to commit criminal acts, or stands by while others do. People like Juan, Dawn, Abi, Silas, Endureth, Philip, Abner, these people have all been directly involved in criminal behaviour. Look at Matthew, Sam Perfilio -- right up there with Maria and Peter. He's a lecher and flirty little teen molester of the worst sort. Just take the whole financial structure for example. Hundreds of thousands of dollars gets moved around every month with no accountability. How many currency control regulations are broken every month by Family members? Why no financial accountability if they have nothing to hide? How many Family members lie every day to the public, just to survive? whether it's balooning "we help drug addicts" or crossing borders or filling out visa forms -- it's a way of life, a culture built on lies. They lie to the public, they lie to the media, they lie to each other. Deceivers yet true. They do it without realising it. World Services is incredibly criminal. And this is true of their front organizations, like Family Care Foundation. They lie and knowingly mislead the public, the IRS, and any authorities? Do you think Grant Montgomery tells people the truth about the FCF-Family connection? Not a hope. He deliberately conceals it. The Family is a criminal organisation and it has a criminal culture. And if you have any position of responsibility in it, you have to adapt a criminal mindset just to operate. You either have to commit criminal acts, or watch others do it and cover up, or defend or deny past criminal acts, such as child abuse. As Berg used to say, "If you run with wolves, you learn to howl." (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Friday, February 06, 2004, 15:19 (Agree/Disagree?) "things that happened over a decade ago" I'm surprised you ever left the cult at all! Milosevic, Pinochet, and countless other criminals are on trial for things that happened over a decade ago. Time does not heal all things! No one has an obligation to forgive and forget. Read up around here a bit. We hear this bitterness lecture ("Why don't you all get over it?") every month.(reply to this comment)

From Albatross Friday, February 06, 2004, 15:11 (Agree/Disagree?) The Family is covering up and protecting known child abusers in its midst. This is not an issue of a theological nature. It is at the very least an ethical issue, and in some cases may be criminal, if Tf knowing the history of the abuser, allows him/her to work with children.(reply to this comment)