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Getting Real : Faith No More
Personal Satan | from Gothsmack - Sunday, November 14, 2004
accessed 4152 times I recently came to the conclusion that Satan is a personification for the driving force in my life: it is darkness, the inevitability of death that encourages me to live life fully whilst I'm still alive! Regardless of my beliefs on an afterlife, regardless of whether or not I consider myself Pagan or Wiccan, and regardless of how I believe we came into being. Satan is what I love in life. In this particular time in my life it is: Love, affection, music, nature, parties, pleasure, and above all, self-empowerment.
As an individual I have always found it hard to do all of the above. My brain just doesn't let me. So I have gone through life struggling against every social convention and dogmatic principle, against organized religion and social taboo. It hasn't been a smooth ride!
I have yearned for a master, someone worthy to instruct me, as I cannot tell if how I live my life is good. So I chose Satan, the personification of intelligence and rebellion, enlightenment, happiness and indulgence. I think deeply, gather some aims and objectives, and then in my mind I attribute the motivation to Satan, who is me, and this personification simplifies my direction. Although Satan is not real, he is still a figurehead under whom I work.
Most people feel like they need someone to tell you to look after yourself, sort yourself out, and make yourself something. God is not that figure, Satan is. Satan is not interested in people who can't get things done, unhealthy parasites or failures. Satan makes me want to make myself strong because Satan represents strength and fulfillment, success and attainment, and also represents my own primary muse and Patron Saint.
Satan's instructions for me are self help, happiness, stability, friends, intelligence, all those unheavenly Satanic traits that are just perfect for the real world!
Satan, if anything, represents vital existence independent of reliance on any God, Savior or benevolent spirits. Depending on others is not conducive to happiness, especially when they don't even have the courtesy to appear in person or help you materially. Self-help is the order of the day. There is no ultimate feel-good factor, it's not all going to be OK, you are going to die.
The second of the 9 Satanic Statements is "Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams". We live to make our lives happy now without any of the pretence that an omnipotent being is going to come and offer us eternal bliss. Satan is a good everyday reminder that fate does not give a shit about you. Make the most of life!
Satan also represents darkness, ultimate death, ultimate hopelessness, the existential void, loss, decay and entropy.
But all of these things, hanging over your head, serve only to make life more urgent! I must live for as long as possible, because reality does definitely not give a shit about me! So Satan is muse for me to take long term plans, not to get myself killed, not to neglect my mental or physical health.
Only Satan represents these things and forces me to make my life so productive! I do not whine, moan, and whine, I only progress and look forward. Find my own shortcomings so they don't catch up with me. Avoid mental entropy!
The dark side, that after life there is nothing but utter oblivion, combined with the inspiration to make my life happy and worthwhile matches perfectly well with my melancholy. A slight sadness, but much happiness within that! Sentimental sadness that I cannot last forever, but happiness that I'm not dead yet and still have many glorious hours to look forward to.
It is incredibly useful to us that the dumb, bigoted and ignorant will presume that a Satanist is an immature person who sneaks around graveyards at night time because it allows us to immediately filter out a whole set of people who are not ready (and may never be) to perceive us. Satanism is not about accepting people for what they are: We change people. We teach people. We do not want to become inundated with dumb-asses whom we have to spend time coaching them, rather than using them.
I wear a pentagram, I did in the Family, and I do now. The pentacle has this effect:
If you are stupid and judge me by appearance, the pentacle will keep you away. What a shame.
If you are religious, then you suddenly feel nervous about talking to me of religion. Oh well.
If you are sensible, you ask me about it. Ahah! A question! There's nothing better than good old knowledge!
Righteous Rebellion
It allows me to rebel, and yet remain logical and factual. I enjoy dispelling illusions; and Satanism is one of the most instinctively misunderstood philosophies.
Satanism has at its core a solid atheist philosophy; for the reasons laid out on this page I call myself a Partial Satanist. Thus another advantage emerges; that I have a cause to fight for. Obviously it's not as important as say, having a job and being happy. But a cause it is, something to stand for, something that you feel is good. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from FalseProphet
Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 18:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thats so cute, although you have only barely started childe. Try taking it a step further boy, Be your own God. You don't need Satan you don't need "God". Reguardless of whether or not they really exist I'm not the one to tell that. You will have to figure that on your own. But trust me on on this boy, or don't. Berid yourself of the chains that hold you back. Take control, you don't need a muse, the only thing you need is yourself, you are your own god you make your own reality. You don't need this Satan of your's, trust me he's not all that. oops i think i might have said to much hahaha, whatever. Mabey at least you might atleast learn something new from this my child.
(reply to this comment)
| from Christian
Friday, April 01, 2005 - 21:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
I to agree to most of the ideas and beliefs of "Satanism" ohhh it sounds so bad doesnt whatever1037? I mean the beliefs and philosophy of it not the stupid superstition worship the "evil" christian diety. I find a lot of the philosophy to suit me but i dont understand why you have to use the label of Satan? Why cant you just use yourself as god and strive to to all those aspirations and beliefs by yourself? Why not believe in yourself and all that why do you have to give it the label of Satan? Maybe its all the same but i was just wondering.
(reply to this comment)
| from exister
Friday, April 01, 2005 - 09:01
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Satan is just another boring deity in the boring pantheon of gods conjured up by humanity. Christians need God to convince them that they are good, and you need Satan to convince you that you are bad. In both cases the devotees are abdicating their responsibility to be their own moral authority and casting it on to some imagined higher (or lower) power.
So, to be fair, God is Dead, and so is Satan. They had a gun duel and both bullets hit their mark. This happened back in the 19th Century so all of you need to catch up on recent history.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from anovagrrl
Friday, April 01, 2005 - 08:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Satan is a cultural artifact. I have no problem with your basic philosophical assumptions, which show a lot of thought, but I do wonder why you have chosen to personify those assumptions with a concept that is the product of Middle-eastern monotheistic religion. Outside of Islamic & Judeo-Christian cultures, Satan or a "personal god" has little meaning or relevance. In some cultures (e.g., Buddhist), emptiness/the void is thought to be the true nature of reality. So how does Satan fit into that world view?
(reply to this comment)
|  From Gothsmack
Friday, April 01, 2005, 17:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
I choose Satan as the symbol to personify my life simply because the traits represented are found in virtually no other symbollic entity. I savor rebellion, intelligence, pride, and numerous other traits which are considered negative in virtually every other religion. Basically, Satanists are esoteric agnostics. We don't believe there is a God, and if there is...then we hate his guts. We dislike those religions that claim to have an "absolute truth" rather than something that seems to fit well with a particular individual or their lifstlye. "Satan" suits me very nicely...and that includes the negative "evil" connotation that comes along with it. (reply to this comment) |
| | from Roland
Friday, February 18, 2005 - 06:35
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Apparently you had a pretty *&^%^%$ up life. I don't know why you need to choose one deity at all! The power to change and grow comes from within! The choices we make and the life we choose to lead are our own! Freedom of choice is what it is all about, if you choose to be under satan then that is your whim to follow. Those who choose to be under something to me show that they have no power of their own and have to cling to some Image or symbolism that empowers them. All it is is a horse of another color. If you still need to embody the force of life and intelligence by some misguided representation of evil then you are still bound by the past which you so wish to be free from. I pity you.
(reply to this comment)
| from Roland
Friday, February 18, 2005 - 06:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Apparently you had a pretty *&^%^%$ up life. I don't know why you need to choose one deity at all! The power to change and grow comes from within! The choices we make and the life we choose to lead are our own! Freedom of choice is what it is all about, if you choose to be under satan then that is your whim to follow. Those who choose to be under something to me show that they have no power of their own and have to cling to some Image or symbolism that empowers them. All it is is a horse of another color. If you still need to embody the force of life and intelligence by some misguided representation of evil then you are still bound by the past which you so wish to be free from. I pity you.
(reply to this comment)
| from metal_chick
Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 12:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Jay, I totally agree woth ur article.....can't wait to lead a life like u..I'm geting there slowly and I know I'll be totally satisfied with my life one of these days...this is Lyd btw....
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until literacy became widespread & after that
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until literacy became widespread & after
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until literacy became widespread &
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until literacy became widespread.
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until literacy became
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that unti
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that until
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote that
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really wrote
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who really
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the ones who
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was the
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church was
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the church
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that, as the
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that,
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned that
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I mentioned
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones? I
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the western ones?
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you reading, only the
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are you
(reply to this comment)
| from Otter
Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 11:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear "Steam",
Whose history are
(reply to this comment)
| from steam
Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Just thought this line from"otter" was funny: "What needs to happen is look farther back in history & uncover what man originally believed". Sounds like Aslan "The witch needed to know the deeper magic from before the dawn of time". Anyway I am not a Christian, but I can say that almost all cultures that centered on a religious theme became violent in their beliefs with very few exceptions they would sacrifice to the Gods and many had human sacrifice. So these "peaceful tribal cultures" are very rarely if ever in evidence, and didn't last.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | from Otter
Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
If you go back to the spred of Christianity. They Brought Satan with them. If you view old religions that they stamped out through torture & violence. You don't find any trace of one called satan until the christians came along. It's the biggest scam of all time. If they can't get you to worship their "good" god then worship their other god. In a religion you have to have both good & bad in order to keep people in line. Now say that the christian good & bad gods are some kind of force in the universe. What better way for them to work the world over & blind everyone into worshiping only their "good" or "bad". So either way they have you in their "fold".
What needs to happen is look farther back in history & uncover what man originally believed. They have perverted all the other religions, because they have written history the way they want to. When the christians were conquering the world (by extreme force & violence), only the Priest & monks knew how to write. So all of the religions that were before have been twisted by their view on things. Trying to force everyone to only worship their gods. If you believe in Satan then your still joining hands with the christians. They brought their Satan into the world to control & give another side to their religion. This way they can get wether you want to or not.
Stand up for your rights & find what was before they destroyed the peaceful tribes & cultures depicting them as part of their religion. Go further back & make sure what your reading has not originated from Christian authors. It's their big net to drag everyone into serving them. Be it the "good or "bad" of their religion.
(reply to this comment)
| from Baxter
Friday, November 19, 2004 - 06:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Gothsmack, this is one of the best debates we've had in a while. I salute you. Better to burn out than to fade away!
AVE!
(reply to this comment)
| from professional
Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 15:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jesus: Cast the dark Demons of the Devil back to hell where they belong, through the power of the Keys of the Kingdom!
All the power of Heaven and DOMINION over Hell is given to the children of David through the Keys of the Kingdom, their reward.
I am proud to call myself one of David's children. You sorrry wretches have no power over us, burn in hell!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | From xhrisl
Friday, November 19, 2004, 02:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
At the risk of sounding patronizing please allow me to clarify; Mama has specifically mandated that no Family member should be visiting this site. Namely because she in her wisdom (as prophetess) has decided that this site posses to great a spiritual danger to “the children of David” ---emphasis on children! By visiting this site you will be exposed to opinions contrary to your own, and faced with the testimony of people who have experienced (at the hands of TF) many of forms of abuse. Should you continue to frequent this site your unquestioning faith and idealism will be tarnished. Opps, I hear a distant call beckoning you…’snowflake, snowflake, where are you?’(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Siolo
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 21:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey, you forgot that us "sorry wretches" can't burn in hell, according to your stupid religon, once we are saved it's forever. I know, I know... I'll be on a lower floor in heaven, but that's fine by me I always wanted to live in a ground floor apartment. That way I'll be closer to the fair grounds in the great pyramid. See you there.
Or is Jesus contradicting the bible in this little prophecy? I can see it now: 'Mama Maria recieves a prophecy (contradicting the entire new testement) that now salvation can be lost!' I guess that would just make you all Catholic. On the upside that would make loving Jesus easier on the guys, they would just have to pretend to be little boys instead of women, less of a stretch if you ask me.(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Saturday, November 20, 2004, 12:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
to Mr Siolo
When, When will you see the diference between christian religion and TF for crying out loud. Scince when does Maria have the power to change shit and make the rules ,thats what you dont understand .
And as for the being saved thing i think if it was up to maria she wouldnt prophecy anything just to fuck you up and leave you with you're way of thinking , because belive it or not whoever came up with that "losing your salvation is imposible"
is or was very very wrong
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from professional
Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 15:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
The fact that you all, you who had the greatest truth ever available to millions of Christians the world over, and rejected it and became the miserable wretches you are is enough to make me weep. What are you thinking? Do you think that in your misled delusions your lives will become any "better" than they were when you had the truth? God bless you, whatever1037, for opposing these sorry outcasts. The depths to which they have fallen are so pathetic, they are laughable!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | From Gothsmack
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 16:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
The only reason I'm replying to your comment and not to "whatever1037" is that surprisingly you at least managed to express your thoughts and opinions in a clear manner. Even then, its hardly worth my time to try and explain to the reason why many of us on this site have chosen alternative religions to what we have been deluded with as children. I sincerely hope that I'll never have to explain this again, so for all of you Family members who like to come and visit this site: take note. First of all, you claim that we have rejected the truth. Logically speaking there is no way that we will ever know "the truth" otherwise the problem of religion would have been solved thousands of years ago. At least I can say for myself that I've tried God and found that he usually has a 50 percent chance of answering prayer. The same result can be achived by simply waiting to see what fate would supply you with. Satan? He doesn't answer my prayers. Why? Because he doesnt exist in your limited understanding of the term, and therefore I do not pray to him. I am my own god. I choose my fate and my future. Even in your bible it tells us...
Psalm 82:6 Ye are gods and all of you are children of the most high.
Johm 10:34 Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods.
Go figure. At least I can say that I've tried both options and now have made my choice. I don't need some creature, or some supreme being either in me head or up the sky telling me what to do. I don't need someone to forgive me from my sins either by listening to me at confession or by dying on a cross, because I don't need forgiveness. I learn what is right and wrong through my experiences, and I feel no guilt, only the need to learn and move on. I don't need a list of rules to keep, especially if there isn't even a shred of reason behind them. I do what I want. I live how I chose, an I fucking enjoy it. Hail Satan!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from Baxter
Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 06:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think some of you have definitely missed the point. We are not espousing a new religious faith- we don't give a shit between two pillows. what we call 'Satanism' most of you call self-affirmation, nihilism, hedonism, etc.. What we are doing is simply imposing an anchronism over the subject. If that seems simplistic, childish, weak -WHATEVER. We don't care what you think of our labelling. This 'Satan' is merely a symbol. That we choose him as our symbol may very well be an act of rebellion, and you might also label it childish. Again, if we cared we would not be 'Satanists'. We accept that our emotional responses may be subjective and myopic, and we understand that people might see it as offensive, but hey, we're not telling them what to call it, we're not telling them what to think, and you and they can dismiss it however you please: it's not for you, it's for us. If you don't like the designation, then don't use it. Call us or yourselves what the fuck ever you want to.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from xhrisl
Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 00:35
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Just a thought, but doesn’t the western religious dichotomy of good/evil, God/Satan seem a trifle archaic? Presupposing that you left TF in search of truth, balance and self-actualization it seems to me that by merely swinging the proverbial pendulum in the opposite direction you have only traded one oppression for another. Free thought is not about choosing one dichotomy over another but about having the personal integrity to live life on your own terms.
In accepting one binary system over another you simply perpetuate the myth of opposites, good/evil, male/female, heterosexual/homosexual.
Such dichotomies are neither factual, nor representative of the world at large, where truth and falsehood are not the only realities. Life is full of contradictions and various shades of gray. If there is any advantage to accepting without critically evaluating the tenets of a particular philosophy or belief system they lay in the fact that they enable the converts of such belief systems to simplify the world into two camps---us versus them. Furthermore, for individuals so inclined, such simplistic reasoning allows them a moral escape clause, not dissimilar to that used by the guards at Auschwitz---namely, “I was only following orders.”
With regard to Satanism, you’ve missed the point! I suggest you read Starhawk’s The Spiral Dance. Learn the tenets and history of your faith. Neopaganism is about embracing life, and unearthing the perversions and oppressions perpetrated by Christianity and patriarchy upon the ancient Goddess religions.
(reply to this comment)
| from Zed
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 20:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Word!
(reply to this comment)
| from porceleindoll
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 17:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know if I agree with calling my present belief system Satanism. I agree with not living your life dictated by a religious belief, enjoying it, living for today, but I don't want to exchange one religious system for another, Christianity for Satanism. Satanism gives the idea that you are in essence worshipping Satan, even if the idea is that you are Satan. I don't agree with that. I still think Satan represents his own identity. I turn away from any forms of worship, be they to a 'god', to 'nature' or to 'man'. I looked into witchcraft out of interest, but the idea of worshipping the 'gods and goddesses' didn't appeal to me. I find peace in simply living life, doing what I can to be a decent person, but not allowing others to dictate what is good or bad. I don't however want to give this way of life a label such as Satanism, or Buddhism, or Christianity, I want to be free of all forms of religion or labels that would dictate my life.
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| | | | | | | | | | from Phoenixkidd
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 12:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
Shall I serve the Lord or Satan? HMMMM, On the one hand we have an old man sitting on a throne with a great big book where he's "writing everything down". He punishes you when your bad and then sometimes he punishes you again for no reason at all just to keep you "Humble". Serving the Lord is just damn tiring and boring, your a slave all your whole life and then you get to live in Eternity.
Then you have the Devil, uurrghhh, (just the word sends shivers down my spine), he plays rock music, is the creator of most ple, gets people to engage in nasty sex, lying and cheating and smoking and basically tells you can live the life you want with no regrets untill the end where he takes this miserable thing called a soul where you still have some conciousness to suffer in hell where its hot. Yes he is hot too he's always runnin around naked with horns and a pitchfork and is generally much younger looking than God.
Hmmm, choices choices choices, I want the best of both. So since I've served the Lord for the first 22 years of my life. I shall enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season and yes, "serve the devil" (ughh there goes that shudder again) and then when I am old and in a senior home I will serve the Lord and bake cookies for the other homeless, donate a dollar to feed children in the 3rd world and serve soup for the homeless and read the bible everyday. I suggest everyone follow this pattern that way we will have the devil and the lord fighting over us and increase our demand and we can get more benefits on either heaven or hell.
(reply to this comment)
| from Joe H
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 10:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
"the personification of intelligence and rebellion, enlightenment, happiness and indulgence. " Gosh, you're sweet. But my name isn't Satan -- it's Joe!
(reply to this comment)
| from banal_commentator
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 07:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
Puh lease, like you're the first person that thought of this.
(reply to this comment)
| from JudasChrist
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 06:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
I Agree! As a professionally employed writer, I know think my old posts (certain of them), and my website to be somewhat amateur. The beliefs however, still remain. Visit it at:
www.goddamngod.20megsfree.com
Also, if you haven't already, the Lesser Key Of Solomon is a great and insightful read. Influencing Crowley and others. I also have copies of the Emerald Tablets, a fascinating bit of words to look upon.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from thepersoniamnow
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
Satanists are the elite driving force of mankind even if you don't know ur one but still think like one.
To the ignorant person they assume the hollywood stigma (that you worship the evil deity of christian mythology).
In this day and age, nothing else dissects the raw truth, cuts through the lies and offers a completely reasonable and fact-founded path through life as Satanism.
It also makes you a better person Satanism compels you to be true to yourself and accountable.
Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence.
Satan represents vital existance, instead of spiritual pipe dreams
Satan represents UNDEFILED wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates.
Satan represents vengence, instead of turning the other cheek.
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires.
Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those who walk on all fours, who, because of his "devine spiritual and intellectual development" has become the most vicious animal of all.
Satan represents all of the above so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he's kept it in business all these days.
Got enlightenment? Read the Satanic bible!
Hail Satan motherfuckers!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Baxter
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
If you don't read Aleister Crowley, you'll love him; also Freidrich Neitsche (probably do already).
I totally agree. THE
(reply to this comment)
| From Baxter
Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 04:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
(finishing up from where I got cut off!)
the conceptual nature of Satan makes for an excellent symbolic motif. While I too have no interest in ritualistic nonsense, or pseudo-deic crap, the representation of the antithesis of all pretentious, life-sucking social morality has a definite place in my attitude. It can in itself become pretentious, but only when it falls into the same traps as everything else. I think as long as you stay to true to the basic them- there is no truth, nothing is forbidden, you make your own rules and you recognise your own ego- the rest of the myopic, self-denying world both hate you and be scared of you, which ain't half bad.(reply to this comment) |
| | From banal_commentator
Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 08:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Is it really this concept of "God" vs. this concept of "Satan?" In my opinion, man's primary conflict stems from the need to pursue his wants as an individual vs. the duty to conform to the norms dictated by society, or rather civilization. We are consistently plagued by individualistic vs. collectivist goals. Indeed, we are animals with instincts to kill and tendencies to fuck everything in sight. But what distinguishes us from animals is the burden that has been inflicted on us by modern times; and that burden is civilization. The burden that it is not acceptable to murder, steal, rape (because we must now live with others who also have these tendencies) and the burden that if these crimes of ID (Freudian term) are commited they will be met with punishment. Look at politics, it's Communism vs. Capatilism and Democrats vs. Republicans and statesmen vs. federalists (this is in no way to say that these words are interchangable, so please do not take them as such. And if one were to argue that these vast generalisations are not suitable to support my thesis then I will willingly refute them). And look at yourself; you probably want to kill your neighbour so you can steal his car and fuck his wife. But will you? Nay, because then you will have to answer to authority and in biblical times authority morphed into the Judeo Chirstian God. This idea of "God" (or should we say "others") and this abhorence of "evil" (or should we say "self") was a necessary precedent to launch man into the modern age where selfishness is a sin and "loving your neighbour" a moral virtue; thanks to "God" we are now civilized creatures who walk upright and who can work together to become the greatest race that has ever walked the earth. But despair not, my fellow man for when the burden of civilization is crushing your human spirit and when your collective memory has you longing for days of old when our sole concern was feeding our bellies and satiating our lust and killing the biggest monkey, and when you wish you could smack your lazy co-worker that talks real slow with that southern accent and make her choke on her candy but you can't cause then everyone would think you're really weird, you can always go fishing. (reply to this comment) |
| | from thepersoniamnow
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 04:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hell yeah dude!
(reply to this comment)
| from cassy
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 02:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is perfect food for fodder for Zerby. I can just see it being printed in the next GN as a warning of "see what happens when you leave" scare tactic.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from Lance
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 02:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow! Hey buddy, you sound as if you've spent too many nights playing dungeons and drangons for your own good.
(reply to this comment)
| From whatever1037
Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 22:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Let me get this very STRAIGHT then , you personified satan to get your life straight and everything is going good so far.
Well lemme tell u somthing dude satan does not help people for free, even tough u think you are doing all the work it aint so. You might go big yes but that only means he has a job for you , once you're on your two feet it'll be pay time , not to god to him , and you'll be owing him a favor . Even tough you say he's just in your mind thats cause hes testing you to see if you go all the way and if you accept belive me or not he'll be waiting for you one of these days with a big task . Not in your mind but in your bedroom in person ,maybe when you get back from work or from a party . Then you'll have to chosse yes or no . In 99% of all cases people have said yes ( Hitler , Buddah , Alexander the Great u namem u should know ) but you also know all these people are history
although the people of this world love'm . However the people that are NOT of this world , are not about to conform ourself'ves with any of that . OUR glory is greater and its hard for me to understand how an ex-member can reach this state of mind . I mean what human who knows about GOD would conform himself with this , this shithole , sorry to put it that way but dude but you've been here before and even if you dont remember you ARE NOT A COMFORMIST anybody alive is not.
I say you've been "here" already but I am talking about when you didn't comform yourself to whatever it was that was offerd to us (you AND me). Even tough i dont remember what it was ,thats because its all in the past now, and its a shame that most of us dont ever look back on those "times" even tough somtimes I do. Still not a clue ???
Picture this , you are running a race (a life) your competitors are about 2 million people with your same resources , however nobody told you it was a race , somhow you fell it maybe at times you even felt tired and didnt want to continue but you kept running , but why with so little information you run so fast maybe it was your heart and leeme tell you that doesnt lie.anyway yes you did win.Against all the odds and the temptations .
Ring any bells ???
Scientist's call it the proces of fertilization its how you
(a male sperm fused with an ovum) turned into what you are today right now. But if you thought it stoped there you were
wrong , and if you've ever stoped to take a look at all the people and think what are we here for .. duh you did it before in the past and you're doing it again the question is are you winning or losing .
How is it people that have won these kinda races
before with no kind of information , seem to stray precicely when they get the map (The Bible).
Obviously you have no clue who made you and who wants to meet you. Thats right the only person or better said Spirit that loves you. Why does He make it so hard, belive me ive also been trough the family and am out now , but if it was up to me i'd yell "raise fucking hell" its been smoth sailng so far , ive beat obstacles before and im not about to let anything , anybody , no sect , no economic problems , no temptations , no riches , no glory , no power , no sexual expirience , no high , no party nothing get in the way of meeting HE who made me ,he can see me, he can hear me , he knows me , i am made in his image , because to him be ALL THE GLORY AND THE POWER FOREVER AND EVER AMEN .
I got my map and i aint letting go. The bible says we will recive persecution ... if u guyz couldnt handel the persecution we got from our own people (their false teachings) how in the hell did u guyz think u guyz were gonna withstand the end time and the antichrist's false teachings , ever hear of your faith going trough fire????
Well I just proved it to you.
As for those who think they have a chance with Satan the Bible calls them temptations of which Jesus obviosly proved
them not being worthy of fighting for. God makes the temptations belive it or not we se that in the book of JOB
and also see that Satan works for God and can do nothing wothout his permision , and if you're gonna complain God says:
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Also
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial WHICH IS TO TRY YOU, AS THOUGH some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man(in other words on big deal): but God is FAITHFUL, who will NOT suffer you to be tempted ABOVE that which ye are ABLE to take; but WILL WITH the temptation also MAKE A WAY TO ESCAPE IT, that ye may be ABLE TO BEAR IT.
More proof
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is NONE BESIDE ME. I AM the LORD, and there is NONE ELSE.
7 I (GOD)FORM THE LIGHT AND CREATE THE DARKNESS: I make peace, and create EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS.
As to what lays ahead JESUS SAYS
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the PORTOR(GOD) openeth; and the sheep(me) hear his voice: and he calleth his OWN sheep by NAME(in my case Steven), and leadeth them OUT(of this dump).
4 And when he putteth forth his OWN sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a STRANGER will they NOT follow, but will FLEE from him: for they know not the VOICE of strangers.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From where to begin?
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 08:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
The first few sentances sound like a 10 yr old Hollywood film starring Robert De Niro.
Those people you said "were history" is because they lived along time ago and the age of death is mainly under 100. So it has nothing to do with the Devil.
I believe people have choices and sometimes they choose the wrong one. This is down to all sorts of reasons, social, psycological, ecconomic and the ego and id part of ourselves. (Sometimes the choices are good for them but not for others.)
You say you are proof that "God puts your faith through the fire" alluding to the cults teachings, and that you have escaped and remained "faithfull" basically they did not destroy your inner faith in God. I don't see this as proof of anything except you like a million other people don't agree with TF's nonsense!!
About the race analogy; We were born with a desire to seek, to explore the world around us, thats what drives us on.
On Gods promise; (He does give) many people do go through more than they can bare and are not here to tell the tale. So so much for that promise!
The last verse about sheep you say is proof, proof of what? proof that a farmer wouldn't climb in to the pen because he would go through the door, thats obvious. And anyone not going through the door would be a theif or have some other suspicious reason, that also seems quite straightforward. And if you've been on a farm of course the sheep answer to the shepard and his dog, they have been trained! (reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 15:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
who said the last verses were proof
obviously you didnt get the article but dont read it again
why ? let me show you
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would LOVE me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of MYSELF, but HE SENT me.
43 WHY DO YE UNDERSTAND NOT MY WORDS? even because ye cannot HEAR MY WORD.
44 YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL AND THE LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER YE WILL DO. HE WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, BEACAUSE THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a LIAR , AND THE FATHER OF IT.
maybe that you'll understand. OK ?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Baxter
Friday, November 19, 2004, 02:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
What is truth, genius?
All I see is a reject from the Pentecostal church spouting the words of a dead misrepresented, misconstrued, exploited jewish mystic as if they are the pillars of the universe. Whether or not you left the Family, whiz, you are still brainwashed enough to think that the 'Word has power'. Furthermore, you miss the entire point of practically the whole discussion. So I'm gonna make it easy for you to understand.
I curse God, I curse Jesus. I curse the Bible. I curse your faith. I curse every verse in it. Not because I have access to any satanic power, but because it offends you and every stuck-up, myopic religious freak who thinks he has access to the whole truth. Your diatribe is meaningless to all except the naive and the intellectually infantile. All your ranting and raving means nothing to us.
GOD IS DEAD.
You know who said that. You probably don't know what it means, but anyone here will explain it to you.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Baxter
Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
Where am I?
Oh, shit, i forgot I was in sunday school!
Mate, are you for real? If I claimed I was the son of God, would that make me the son of God? Quoting someone's words does not imply anything other than the fact that you said it, and you think they said it - you can't even prove that they said it.
Why do you still think that the bible is anything other than a bunch of words like any other book in history? Let me make this real clear for you, you brainwashed psycho:
THERE IS NO POWER IN THE BIBLE!!
you cannot cast out demons, save souls, work miracles or change people's minds simply by quoting it! It is totally pointless to do so. Now unless you can come up with a coherent relevant argument outside of bible-class, your babbling is redundant.
Go read something else, before your brain collapses from misuse! (reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Friday, November 19, 2004, 10:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
I hate to bust your bubble, but you might want to research where the whole "Son of God" concept began (Hint: Council of Laodecea).
Steven, just for the benefit of everyone here, please do us the favor of answering this one question:
Do you believe that you have and know the one and only truth?
Your answer will be most beneficial in helping to determine what angle you're coming from.
It's sadly ironic that the most fanatical followers of Jesus (a man who is said to have been of great compassion) are the most intollerant of opposing opinions.
The manner in which you write and the way you defend and support your beliefs imply that you feel threatend. But, your not a child anymore so I'm sure you have a more valid reason for your aggressive tone.
Some of us are more than a decade older than you and many of us have at one point been of the same opinion as you. So try for a moment to take a step back and see if you can put yourself in our frame of mind. See if you can think of what it was that made us change our views on religion.
Your posts come eerily close to sounding like a certain JF. If you don't know the guy, I recommend you sign up on the Ex-family Yahoo group. You two would form a great Mutual Admiration Society.
In closing, let me add that quoting Bible scripture to support your arguments has the same effect on many of us as it would on you if you were being witnessed to with verses from the Bhagavad-Gita. It is of no relevance to us.
I have nothing more to say to you.(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Saturday, November 20, 2004, 12:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wrong again . The son of god began the first time he preached
and ended when the scribes asked him "are you the son of god"
to which he replied yes and was later crucified.
And as for the truth that christians have that nobody else has and never will is so simple i dont know how you dare to ask , but dont fret i'll answer you.
ever hear of John 3:16 ??? ring any bells
thats a truth of which people didnt get in those days and dont wanna get today. Who else is gonna save you from the bad things you do Budahh?? Krisna ?? everybody needs to be saved .
not from God but from Satan , the bible shows us that satan is the one that acuses us before God and the worst part of it is that hes right.thats why God send Jesus.
look in the old testament people used to sacrifice lambs for repentance of their sins . now this lamb had to be White , perfect , without any scars, very healthy etc.. but people forgot WHY they where doing what they were doing, somthing i can also see today , which is why god did what he did. that is why God gets so pissed of when , and says whoever rejects
my son that i send to you , not because i have to but because i love you will also be rejected by me. and when satan is acusing you before the angels and god , jesus says:
whoever didnt say " yes i belive in jesus" out loud , I will say " i dont know him and i've never seen him ". And thats when satan's gonna laugh at you real hard.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Saturday, November 20, 2004, 23:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dude, seriously, it was a simple question that required a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Your diatribe on the history of salvation was superfluous.
As to my being 'wrong again' (you'll need to remind me of when exactly it was that I was wrong the first time), apparently, you're forgetting that the four gospels were written long after Jesus ceased to keep his disciples physical company. You're also not taking into account that there existed many gospels written by other devout followers of Jesus which made no mention of him being the son of God and, in fact, portrayed him merely as a wise man, a human like the rest of us--no divinity involved.
More than three centuries after Jesus' death, the Council of Laodicea (a group of men whose great-great-great grandfathers would have had the chance to meet Jesus) decided on which of these several dozen accounts to canonize and which to discard. Obviously, they settled on only the four gospels that are found in the Bible today.
There's a lot more to be said about this council and the reasons why the settled on the four current gospels, but suffice it to say that I, for one, no longer fully believe in Jesus' divinity. Whether you, believe it or not is entirely your perogative. And I respect that.
Steven, what have I ever done or said to you to deserve the caustic tone of your replies? I am no Satanist and do appreciate not being conversed with as if I am one.
Can you not grant me the same respect I have given you?
You may not be aware of this, but 5 years ago, I would have taken the same stance that you are taking now. I would have argued in the same incoherent way. Admitting that I was wrong about any aspect of a belief I had given my life to was not easy to do. I had made the danger of thinking that I had and knew the only right way. I was too proud to admit that an opposing view could possibly hold truth to it. I tremendously limited my potential for spiritual, mental, and psychological growth.
I see my "past self" in you, Steven.
Anyway, if you're interested in a logical debate on this issue (and believe me, I will drop the debate if you cannot remain coherent), feel free to contact me through my profile.(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Sunday, November 21, 2004, 03:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
why is it hard for me to respect you ???
first of all this is an article about satan and in his favour.
obviously i was the first to oppose to it and as a result of that contradicted by many people on the site ,mainly the ones who personified satan in their lives. but whats worst than that is , the only person who aproved to my objection is a family member . so i am being insulted and juged by everybody
yet when i make a comment i am "judging". but worst than that is the so-called christians ,who are not christians at all, on this page have tended to get in the way of the discusion . Why do i say they're not christians ? if they were they would stand up for him and defend him , which they dont. all they say is i need to show compasion . how do show "compasion" to someone who doesnt need it and doesnt want it ?? so when you come along was it not obvious what i was gonna do ?
but scince you werent oposing me i ask that you forgive my lack of respect ok ??
remember i still am human ??
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Wolf
Sunday, November 21, 2004, 09:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dude, don’t make yourself out to be some kind of martyr. You’re not getting picked on because you’re Christian, but because the stuff you’ve written here is both incoherent and dogmatic – not to mention the mistakes that a simple spell check could remedy. I consider myself a Christian, and I don’t recall ever getting picked on for my faith on this site.(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Monday, November 22, 2004, 02:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
So let me ask you a question. And it would be good if you answerd with the truth. If I would have writen an article called MY PERSONAL JESUS , with the same things gothsmack said in his article. Blabing on about how i personified Jesus now that I was out of TF . And how i wear a cross (which i dont)
and all the other stuff he wrote but using Jesus instead .
Who here wasnt gonna take their best shot at me and say i was full of it. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Baxter
Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh boy!
Why don't you read what other people have written in response, GENIUS?
If you had presented your beliefs in the same fashion as Gothsmack did, you would have recieved the same treatment. Gothsmack just endured responses from both sides. Some agreed with him, some didn't. Everyone bar you and some other wack dude whom I think was having a laugh tried to answer in a coherent, logical fashion. Even gothsmack's original argument simply contained a series of ideas and personal assertions. He never felt the need to babble a bunch of dogmatic nonsense, and then insist that there was no room for argument because of what he had said. If you had done the same thing you would have been accorded the same level of respect.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From porceleindoll
Monday, November 22, 2004, 03:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think some of us did write a few comments to the article in essence that we didn't personally agree with his viewpoints. But then you see, Gothsmack hasn't attacked us for not agreeing with him (her?). Whereas you on the other hand have continued criticising, judging and condeming those of us who don't adopt the same belief as you do.
The beauty of life is we are free to believe as we choose. And despite our upbringing in the cult, we don't have a duty to convert or convince anyone else of those beliefs. People who are Christian know what they believe and are convinced of it, you don't have to defend Christianity for them. People who are Satanists are happy with their belief system, and I wouldn't want to change it, etc.. But I don't appreciate anyone, Christian or otherwise, judging me, condeming me, forcing me to make choices or admit 'truths' that I personally don't believe in.
You don't have a duty to defend Jesus on this site. He can take care of Himself, and those here who believe in Him probably didn't hardly even read the article.(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Monday, November 22, 2004, 15:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
First, i was and still think was the only one to oposse. And yes i was criticized although not even by gothsmack but by other people . Second, everybody here has judged and critiized
so dont put me as the bad guy like if i was the only one. third , the cult has nothing to do with my beliefs. I dont know about you but i was taught i was a child of david and not of Jesus. Yes there was a little Jesus and a little bible. But most of it was just Berg's ramblings about sex and politics. true? And believe it or not i have and is my duty to stand up for him as much as i possibly can. Whether here on this page or to my friends or at a party ,everywhere.Why?
i already told you :
8 "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God.
9 But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From porceleindoll
Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 01:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well then, I'm sure Jesus will receive you with open arms when you arrive in Heaven and utter those reassuring words of "well done thou good and faithful servant, enter thou into the joy of the Lord", and as for me, I'll be happily shining shoes in the basement along with whatever friends and family make it there as well.
Actually, in the words of Mark Twain "I'm sure Heaven's great, but for meeting old friends there's no place like Hell."(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From JohnnieWalker
Monday, November 22, 2004, 16:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
Steven, I respect that you feel it is your duty to point out to the author of the article the error of his ways. But seriously, your idea of what is right is entirely relative. So is mine, for that matter.
True, you were the only one to actively oppose what Gothsmack has said, but that by no means makes you the only one to disagree with him. Those of us who do not see eye to eye with Gothsmack on this issue see no need to persuade him of our own convictions (or lack thereof).
He has chosen what he wants to believe in, and so have you. The only difference, it seems, is between the fervor with which you both discuss and defend your individual beliefs.
Your comments imply that you believe you cannot be wrong in your current faith. I've found that's a dangerous position to let myself be in.(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Monday, November 22, 2004, 03:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
The thing is, your truth is somewhat different, maybe very different to another's.
People have written articles about their faith in God and when people have commented, they are picking apart the reality of Jesus as Gods son and the biblical accounts along with scientific eviedence to the contrary.
In this article the writer doesn't say that the Devil exsists apart from an idea-he dosen't believe either are real the way you do! (reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Sunday, November 21, 2004, 06:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
and i'd also love a chance to debate .. well not debate , more like talk about the subject. of course you know that us ,the christians ,dont have much proof . we survive on faith and a very old book. so in that case you probably will have more facts than me . but then i will also have more fairy tales than you , and after that comes the moment of truth .
You take the blue pill and you belive in what you see.
you take the red pill and stay in wonderland.
(thats from the matrix by the way)(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, November 21, 2004, 12:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Agreed. There is nothing I could possibly do to try and make you give up your faith--and I would never attempt such a thing. You have the right to believe in whatever you choose to believe in, so long as it does not harm anyone, including yourself.
The reason I chose to validate my beliefs was because I had had religion crammed down my throat for so long, that I could no longer tell the facts from the fairy tales.
Why don't I believe in Santa Claus? There is far too much evidence proving that he does not exist. I cannot fully embrace in Jesus' claim to divinity for much the same reason. There is a lot of evidence around. Many people however, choose to brush it off or ignore it because the repercussions on their life would be far to extreme for them to handle. I was not afraid of those repercussions.
I wanted to--rather, felt compelled to--find out if my faith was made of pure gold or was only paper faith, so I threw it into the fire of research and logic. When I pulled it out, I was surprised by how much of it had turned to ashes.
You're right, Christians don't have much proof. But I would paraphrase what you said just a little: They survive on faith IN a very old book. They rely merely on the stories. When they say they believe in Jesus, they are in essence saying they believe in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's faith in Jesus.
I have found that whenever my faith must be based on the faith of another person, it is easily destabilized.(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Monday, November 22, 2004, 03:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have also done my share of reseach when i left TF . Yet i would say the thing that kept me a christian , cause reseach really is putting your faith trough fire , would have to be the way God comes into my life excactly the way he described he would in the Bible . Coincidence ? I dont belive in them .
Fate ? Thats is one of the truth's i forgot to mention earlier
and which the Bible state's i have one. So now i narrow it down to coincidence or a creator. And after that the moment of truth to which i choose God. So now that coincidence is out i have the bible . And the thing about the Bible is that if you belive in just one verse even in one letter. All the other verses are connected and those eventually are connected to one thing. The GREATNESS OF GOD. So I will also do a little paraphrase: When we say we belive in Jesus we are actually saying that we Belive in somthing so Big that not even the whole universe can contain. Sombody that says
" IS NOT MY WORD LIKE FIRE ? AND LIKE A HAMMER THAT BREAKS THE ROCKS INTO PIECES .
To that i say : it defintely did the trick with me.
Without it i would feel like an ant that swears on his life
the moon , the stars , the universe isnt real just cause he cant comprehend it.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Monday, November 22, 2004, 15:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
Steven, I'd be interested to hear your opinion of the following article. There are many links in the text that branch off to more detailed articles, so reading it may take a while (it did for me).
http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/jesus.html
Mind you, my opinion is that the material at this link should be taken with a grain of salt because the author is apparently biased, but the facts and suggestive evidence are laid out quite well, the extrapolation is relatively conservative and all arguments are referenced extensively.
Since you are a firm believer in the Bible, I would be interested to hear what you think about this.
No hurry. Just whenever you get around to it.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From whatever1037
Monday, November 22, 2004, 15:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
i never said anything about anybody setting fate a for me. What i did say is that the Bible speaks about fate and even though i dont understand it completly , i know i make my own fate , which is why it can't be changed. Example : I am writing this article , it is my fate and i could have done nothing to change it . But I still was the one to write it.
What did i write to gothsmack in short words?
Change your fate in destiny.
thats from Sanders Klienenberg by the way
It's very complex(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, November 21, 2004, 20:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
I apologize for the misunderstanding on your part. I should have placed a paragraph break immediately before that sentence.
My mention of 'evidence' was in reference to the decisions made by the Council of Laodicea and the political reasons behind them. All of this is documented and accessible to anyone with a functioning Web browser. (If I find the time, I will see if I can dig up some of the links to the information I am referring to here.)
While I realize that one cannot "prove" a negative, (i.e. it would be impossible to prove that Jesus was not God's son), there is enough evidence at hand to strongly suggest that Jesus' divinity was fabricated in order to appease an influx of superstitious new converts.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From porceleindoll
Saturday, November 20, 2004, 17:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hmm, I think your core problem here is the assumption that everyone is bad and needs to be saved from their badness, and that Christianity is the truth.
There's a lot of people and religions in the world that don't believe the same thing. It's a very arrogantly small-minded belief system that excludes a lot of groups.
I have a very hard time swallowing the fact that I'm 'bad' or a 'sinner'. I'm not, that's the plain truth. I am far from perfection, I get upset at my kids, I have a short temper, I eat too much chocolate, I can be vain, but I'm not a 'sinner'. I don't lie, cheat, kill, steal, murder, rob, .... and I'm not saying this in pride, but as matter of fact, overall I do my best to be a good person, to help those around me, to be a good mother and wife, and live my life honestly. I think the majority of persons on this website do the same.
To say that I'm a 'sinner' and need saving from my 'badness' is an incredible insult, not just to me, but to anyone else who does their best to live life decently. I realise that to you this will sound incredibly bad and will be a prime example of the type of person who 'needs Christ' but doesn't realise it, but in all reality, I live a much better and wholesome, good life than I did 5 years ago as a Christian. Abandoning my religion to discover who I am without it has done wonders for me.
Whenever I come in contact with a person who is so stuck on their religion that they cannot accept the fact that there may be flaws in it, or they cannot acknowledge that perhaps their religion is not what everyone they come in contact with needs, it reminds me again that I don't want to ever again be dictated by a religious belief to the point of closed-minded arrogance. I've already offended and cut-off too many people throughout my life by doing so.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Lance
Friday, November 19, 2004, 01:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Christian, you seem to have an affinty for run-on sentences. And I will also add that you don't seem to direct this comment towards anyone in particular. Such rash generalizations can only help you sound like an elitist pig(never mind that I think you actually are an elitist pig).
I would recommend that you read the book The Art Of Styling Sentences, by Ann Longknife and K.D. Sullivan.
Also, please learn to punctuate correctly if you plan to make an effective arguement. You make my eyes sore and make yourself just seem ignorant.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Siolo
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 00:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Umm... I think you took a wrong turn mr. 'Whatever1037.' But there is a nice family youth site on yahoo where those of you who are still playing sheep to Zerby (or who ever you baaa down to) can go talk about God and praise yourselves silly. This site is for those of us no longer in the family. No hard feelings, I'm sure you just misunderstood. Now run along to Jesus Land where you can register under your own name instead of using a fake name everytime you post. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Siolo
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 21:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Worthy of reading? Steven, your article was incoherent, misspelled and largely made up of quotes from the Bible, which we have all read a number of times. Looks like the family still isn't educating thier youth, very sad.
Regurgitating other people's words is niether a sign of intelligence nor is it a proper way to make your argument. Grow a personality, enter into real dialog with the world, stop being a stupid sheep! Or just run along and leave the big kids in peace so we can have real conversations that are not just someone elses' prerecorded coments. (reply to this comment) |
| | From GoldenMic
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 17:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, you really mangled the English language in that last statement! Of course, your thinking in the previous few posts was pretty much equally confused and irrational.
Its interesting, but it is comments like yours, full of condemnation and judgement and self-righteousness, that cause me to be a little embarrassed at my own Christianity. While I am comfortable with my own vision of God as a loving Father, I try not to forget the simple truth that the Bible was written in the context of rigid paternalism, and that the very concepts of hell and the devil are actually post-Biblical add-on's from Hellenistic philosophy and the Mithraic religion of early Rome.
So, I try to celebrate ANY person who is willing to seriously seek truth. Whats the big deal when some youngster (literally or emotionally) decides they need to use the symbols of a particular spirtuality on their journey to wholeness? Don't you trust God to be at the end of ANY road that seeks understanding and wholeness? This is especially true for those of us who have been maimed by despots and thugs who used Christianity to oppress us, and whats the big surprise that we might need to begin the journey in a way that also allows us a certain rebellion to concepts and words that were used to screw us?
I believe that Jesus reserved his condemnation and inflexibility hostility primarily for pharisees, self-righteous blow-hards who thought they were so perfect, FAR more than he aimed it at the "sinners and publicans and prostitutes"... where do you fit?(reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 18:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
sorry if i was a bit on the ofense there but i dont think you read what gothsmack had to say.
if you did i dont know what kind of christian you say you are If you are a christian then tell me what was wrong in my first article. And if there's nothing wrong with my first article then how is it the only thing you've posted so far has been in
correcting me . dude or chick or whatever pick a side and dont play both . I was having a discusion with gothsmack and you are obviously in the way . how is it you have things to say to me but on the actuall article you've posted nothing at all .
cut the BullShit and dont get in the way . Remember hot or cold for crying out loud(reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Friday, November 19, 2004, 11:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
"i dont think you read what gothsmack had to say." I was just about to tell you the same thing. I don't think Gothsmak was referring to Satan as in the Satan you read about in the bible. I think "Satan" was being used more as a representation or symbol of what she believes in.
For example "Satan" in the family represented "Evil" and Evil" represented all the fun things I couldn't do, all the good things I couldn't eat, all the feelings I wasn't allowed to show, all the questions I wasn't allowed to ask,The books I couldn't read, movies I couldn't see. and most of all the person I wasn't allowed to be....etc.
"God" on the other hand was supposed to represent "good" but the family's idea of "good " equaled every thing I hated, Like the days being locked in rooms fasting and praying to get closer to God, Isolation from family and friends, being ordered to not wear a bra to prove I was one of Gods "Mountain Woman" or being told I couldn't shave cause God likes natural women, The hrs walking down streets postering hungry and tired but not being able to stop till our quota was met. Having to eat rotten food or discussing food I hated just because the bible said "eat what is set before you.." Have to "share Gods love" with ugly smelling people. Hrs of memorizing chapter upon chapter of useless words, when I could have been learning to be a doctor that could save lives, or making money so that I could better help the poor. (honestly what do you think they would really choose if you gave them a choice of medicine or food vs. saying a prayer)
My point is when we left and were allowed to do all those things that were considered "evil" and of "Satan" We found how wonderful life could be. So in a way "Satan" = Life for some of us. Does that make sense at all to you?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Shackled
Saturday, November 20, 2004, 23:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
I believe I'm not mistaken but 2 definitions of dumb are lacks the ability to process data and shows a lack of intelligence.
You've managed to show both. You can't process others opinions or maybe your reading skills lack as much as your writing and spelling. And ass, well, physically you've got one and in a manner of speech you've proved to be one. Dude, you win the DUMBASS award. I'll have it gift wrapped and sent to fairy tale land cause I know you aren't here in the real world. And you also did mention it earlier.
And for someone that uses bible verses to support his opinion how did you not read the proverbs? If you believe the bible believe it all. Respect others opinions and have an open mind if you want to debate. This site is for all exmembers so respect it's members. Whatever you do, hide yourself, cause you make bible believers look bad. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Baxter
Friday, November 19, 2004, 02:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
HANDS UP, ALL CHRISTIANS IN THIS ROOM!??
Mate, you are most definitely in the wrong website! Go smoke some weed, go get wasted, get laid, get into a scrap....LIVE YOUR OWN FUCKING LIFE, STOP READING BERG'S BIBLE CLASSES AND TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE THEIR LIVES!
Hot and cold, wtf?
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Libriscan Worshiper
Saturday, November 20, 2004, 23:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
What the fuck is this Bible you keep talking about? Have they started selling toiletpaper in hardcovers instead of rolls?
The Book of Condolences was written over 3,500 years ago by a man, Libriscus Syrebus, who not only claimed to be the Brother of God, but proceeded to let himself be beheaded by the emperor with a dull scalpel (an extremely painfull and slow death) as a sign to his followers of his sacrifice for them and guarantee of their after life in the glorious Ravibana (or heaven).
If that kind of a sacrifice isn't love, then what is?
The Book of Condolences was written for the souls of all mankind. Your Bible seems to have been created for wiping the asses of all mankind.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From porceleindoll
Thursday, November 18, 2004, 20:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
One thing that pisses me off is Christians full of their own righteousness and ready to point the finger at everyone else. Using scripture to convince others they are wrong, you are still stuck in the Family's warp! Get on with it man! Be a true Christian, the kind that Jesus taught, compassion, understanding, tolerance, fogiveness. It's your perverse form of Christianity that drives those of us who may one day return to religion far far away. Take some lessons from the Christians on this site who have the grace not to 'rub it in' and attempt to make those of us who aren't feel like shit.
JUDGE NOT THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED! I believe this was Jesus. Or was it VENGEANCE IS MINE SAITH THE LORD, I WILL REPAY? (reply to this comment) |
| | From whatever1037
Friday, November 19, 2004, 09:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
FORM PORC..
the kind that Jesus taught, compassion, understanding, tolerance, fogiveness.
1st of all:
32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33 But whoever DISOWNS me before men, I will DISOWN him before my Father in heaven.
2nd of all:
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring PEACE to the earth. I DID NOT COME TO BRING PEACE, but a SWORD.
35 For I have come to turn
" a man against his father,a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--
36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
3rd.
37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Now if you really are a christian (love jesus more than your moma) how can you just sit there and say nothing to defend him but when sombody (hmmm, yeah me,i may suck at it but i am trying)does defend you come and correct him .
You sound like a pharisee to me , telling me how i cant heal on tha sabath day
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From whatever1037
Sunday, November 21, 2004, 03:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
lets get this discusion very straight shall we ???
all the christians or people who call themselves christians
should just say it.
and everybody who's not a christian should just admit it dint you guys think so ???
if not come up with A BETTER SOLUTION . why?
example.. when i oposse sombody you guys say i should have an open mind. but if you guys are oposing me i could ask the same thing which i havent . from the beginning all i've asked for is one thing . the people who are from this world say "aye"
and the people who consider themselves not from this world just say it. and if you consider yourself from this world but at the same time call yourself a christian . that has to be another discusion.
what do you people say ???
(reply to this comment) |
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