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from professional Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 15:41 (Agree/Disagree?) The fact that you all, you who had the greatest truth ever available to millions of Christians the world over, and rejected it and became the miserable wretches you are is enough to make me weep. What are you thinking? Do you think that in your misled delusions your lives will become any "better" than they were when you had the truth? God bless you, whatever1037, for opposing these sorry outcasts. The depths to which they have fallen are so pathetic, they are laughable! (reply to this comment)

from My opinion Friday, October 22, 2004 - 09:01 (Agree/Disagree?) I can hear your fustration! Have you recently left? If so it sounds like your concerned that alot of people are staying in TF, out of fear of what god will do to them! (They should be more frightened of what Zerby et al and TF's dynamics are doing/ have done to them and their families.) Explain that Berg was a false prophet and back it up with the events he predicted that have not come to pass, look it up in the bible for varification-something they are quite clever at twisting to suit their perspective ie. free love, sexual preditors, abuse of children and the dismantaling of free will and choice. Explain that if they are "saved" they have just as much right to go to heaven and live in "Gods spirit" anywhere they like. The Bible doesn't say "Behold, Thou shalt join the COG before you can get into the kingdom of heaven" Because their biblical past it's easier to fight with the scriptures first and remind them that what they say they believe is against the more accepted, run of the mill, moderate and not taken literaly interpretations. They say they have so much freedom yet it is they that take some bits in the bible as fact, where by very nature of translation, it can't be. King David in the Bible was a murderer and TF say he was forgiven by the Lord. Well he was but not till after he had suffered and had repented, begged the Lord for forgiveness. TF has done none of those things. (Quite the opposite) Once they leave and they realise that nothing much changes unless you asign fantasy and embeleshment to "miracals" and "answers to prayer "Oh good I wanted it to rain today! oh thank you Lord for answering my prayer!" When TF say "It's best not to dwell on past mistakes" they don't consider these acts of abuse in all it's forms, as evil. Nor do they wish to bring these evil-doers to justice, which is pretty funny as they are always fighting the flipin things, Oh yes they do it in "the spirit" from their loving Jesus and anyone else they can get their hands on, and singing stupid songs and habada sheebada time. Not really very helpfull. They are so interested in how evil the world is and say how we are going to pot. Well LOL what time are they referring to, the last century where victorians used children and blacks as slaves? or a time befor in the dark ages where children were sent of to fight for riches and land in the East? or in the Romans time where it was a free for all and children were castrated ? There has NEVER been a more fair and equal society in which to hand down to our next generations (maybe the pagans-before the Start of Kings) esp in the west. Which most of them came from, but they ran away! They didn't want it, "Doctors??? Hell NO we just need to pray" "Individualality! heck no, we need to become robots who just do as they are told" (reply to this comment)

From moon beam Friday, October 22, 2004, 09:17 (Agree/Disagree?) "No man *cometh* unto the father but by me." They now actualy do want you to "come" to Jesus Dear God, can you teach Jesus how to wank himself off? Your son is blackmailing us into having sex with him! ;((reply to this comment)

from Baxter Friday, October 22, 2004 - 02:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Jeez, let the dude vent some rage in peace! we've all done it before! (reply to this comment)

from Shackled Friday, October 22, 2004 - 00:32 (Agree/Disagree?) Did you just leave TF or what? You asked: "Now, that last paragraph will give lots of people something to think about. Pretty interesting huh?" Hate to hurt your feelings but I doubt anyone is thinking about it and it certainly is no longer interesting. You see, those ideas have passed through our heads long ago. You're not offering any new info. I suggest, as Shaka has, that you read more and write less. (reply to this comment)

From oden77 Friday, October 22, 2004, 01:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Like I said before. MY ARTICLES ARE MEANT FOR PRESENT DAY FAMILY MEMBERS AND NOT FOR THE FORMERS. Cause I know that they are watching and reading. AM I CLEAR ENOUGH!!!(reply to this comment)

from jpmagero Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 23:03 (Agree/Disagree?) I am no Christian, but I don't see anyone reading this text and coming away converted to whatever the hell it is you are trying to preach. (reply to this comment)

from Shaka Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 11:10 (Agree/Disagree?) I suggest you read through this website thoroughly before you inform us anymore that the Family is bad etc..etc.... WE WERE FUCKING THERE!!! (reply to this comment)

From oden77 Thursday, October 21, 2004, 13:32 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh Yeah!!? SO WAS I. And you obviously are still are.(reply to this comment)

From Shaka Thursday, October 21, 2004, 19:03 (Agree/Disagree?) You are so fucking dumb I don't even know where to start. Read just one or two of my posts and you will be munching on your foot in no time. (reply to this comment)

from The Pedantic Prick Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 11:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm giving this article the "Well, DUH!" award of the month. We're all happy you've come to these extremely obvious conclusions, but don't assume you're enlightening the rest of us. Ta-ta. (reply to this comment)

From oden77 Thursday, October 21, 2004, 13:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe you folks didn`t read the beginnng of my article seeing that alot of TF`s are reading our stuff. It was meant for them! Live well!(reply to this comment)

From The Pedantic Prick Friday, October 22, 2004, 13:02 (Agree/Disagree?) Touché, oden. But, do you really think your aggressive, argumentative style will do anything but put current cult members on the defensive? Surely, any of us can lay out the rebuttal that a cult-member would undoubtedly give, and, though it may fall apart when analyzed by anyone with a fully functioning cerebrum, you have to remember that Jesus ate their brains! Seems like a better approach would be to get them thinking (as difficult as that may be), rather than attacking their belief system outright. I'm reminded of a proverb by the wise King Solomon, to wit: "A soft answer turneth away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger."(reply to this comment)

from steam Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 06:27 (Agree/Disagree?) I am not a christian. I currently have no set belief system that I can really say I am convinced of. I do believe that at the time of death whatever inteligence or force that makes us an individual, does not cease to exist in some form. That said this article was not written by an individual who has given serious mature thought to christianity or the person of Jesus. I think it is obvious to anyone with an open mind, that Jesus was a very amazing individual. His life has definitely had a greater impact on the human race than any other individual who ever existed, by a long shot. I doubt that the precise words attributed to him in the new testament are perfectly accurate and therefore "following his teachings" is something on could not do without more certainty. However there is no depth of research or logic in the simplistic dismissals in the post. (reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Thursday, October 21, 2004, 11:44 (Agree/Disagree?) By that reasoning, Moses or Abraham would be even greater men than Jesus. Had they not existed, Jesus would never have had the Jewish platform to found his religion upon. Few Christians realize how much of their religions, beliefs, and traditions stem from Judaism. So in that light, Abraham and Moses have affected all Jews and Christians combined. You're right about not being able to "follow [Jesus'] teachings ... without more certainty". It's virtually impossible for any honest Christian to claim they believe in Jesus. The most anyone can claim, is that they believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's accounts of Jesus' life. In fact, all Christians, whether they admit to it or not, can base their belief only upon stories. Even the early church was divided on the subject of Jesus' teachings, and I wouldn't be surprised if the kind of changes that came about in The Family after Berg died reflect what took place in the early Church after Jesus' death.(reply to this comment)

From cassy Thursday, October 21, 2004, 13:26 (Agree/Disagree?) True. And the Gospels were written about a hundred years after he died, plenty of time for things to be embelished and added.(reply to this comment)

From The Pedantic Prick Thursday, October 21, 2004, 11:49 (Agree/Disagree?) "honest Christian" I smell a potential addition to my list of oxymorons!(reply to this comment)

From oden77 Thursday, October 21, 2004, 13:37 (Agree/Disagree?) "honest christian"? HELL NO, NOT ME!!(reply to this comment)

From oden77 Thursday, October 21, 2004, 08:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Christianity was forced on the world especially during the darkages and renaissance. It was done by force. I think you should study thru the realy truths in this link http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/tcont.htm(reply to this comment)