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from Banshee Monday, October 27, 2003 - 06:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't know if this is what you want, or if it will help, but I have proof that TF lied about some of their recent "revelations" and visions (particularly all these demons and whatnot...) U can email me if you're interested, and if it will help answer some questions. It sure opened my eyes. Peace (reply to this comment)

from Anthony Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 22:50 (Agree/Disagree?) It’s ironic, or at least interesting, that our abusers in the cult are referred to as “immature Family individuals misinterpreting the Word.” When in fact, these were the dedicated, sold-out, on-fire (many with herpes) disciples following the word in all its essence and manifestations resulting in our many festering. The real individuals misinterpreting the Word and/or deliberately disobeying it were those who chose not to harm our siblings and us. They were in the cult for whatever reason(s), and that alone is a demonstration of their lack of reason and pure stupidity; yet, they were still decent enough not to have trashed their humanity for the sake of Jesus, Berg and Co. Admittedly, they were few, and not a very strong presence, but they did provide a refuge from the monsters, if only an ephemeral one. (reply to this comment)

from Joe H Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 14:51 (Agree/Disagree?) It blows my mind that you cult members can obsess over whether or not the "allegations" are true, while completely ignoring the stuff that's printed in the Mo letters in black and white. Have you read the Mene series? Or had it read to you while someone beat you with a 2x4? The stuff they'd admit to is just as perverse and damning, perhaps more so, because thousands of kids experienced the same kind of "exorcisms" as a result. Maybe you should start reading the word critically for a change, it's got all the answers. (reply to this comment)

From Blondie_B78 Thursday, October 23, 2003, 00:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Joe, sorry if you feel that I'm "obsessing over whether or not the allegations or true". I have never doubted that many of our generation experienced abuse of some kind or other. I experienced it myself. However, I never realized that the abuse extended (or should I say "filtered down from") to Zerby and Bergs household. I probably only read "The Last State" once and only vaguely remember it. I'm glad that a lot of literature was purged but it does make it difficult at times when you only have your memory (of what you have read NOT what you have experienced)to go on. Reading excerpts of purged literature on this and other sites has been helpful though. It has been a good 12 years or more since the "purges" and my memory is, admittedly, a bit hazy. The reason I felt the need to ask these questions was because, inspite of what I experienced, I believed what WS said about the abuse being due to misinterpretations of "the Word". I have tried to follow what I have been taught to the best of my ability. I have always been a sincere believer. As it turns out, I may have also been a gullible idiot. To me personally, the dishonesty (on the part of leadership) is of bigger significance than abuses that occurred. I'm not saying that those abuses don't matter.They do. The hurt experienced by many of our generation is real - it has not been given more than a token acknowledgment at best. What I'm trying to say is - there are a lot of criminals in the world but not many claim to be "good people" let alone "God's annointed. (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Monday, October 27, 2003, 12:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Well then, it sounds like you have your answer. What the hell are you waiting for? Get out of the cult already!(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, October 23, 2003, 10:25 (Agree/Disagree?) TF's claim of a few weak people "missinterpreting" the word is BS!! There could be no missinterpretation when Berg's own writings depicted graphic adult child sex with pornography included, vivid descriptions of group sexual acts that included his own daughter, Faithy, as well as detailed accounts of the fondling and molestation of his own younger children, written as a guide for cult childrearing none the less. There are so many more examples that it would take several books to list them all!!! While you may or not remember these things, for those of us unlucky enough to grow up right smack in the middle of all this, it was just a fact of daily life for us. Stop and think for a minute, why would they have to destroy so much of the sacred "word of God" if there was nothing incriminating in it?? That alone should speak for itself, but still you have the testimony of thousands of ex members as well as the testimony of his own children who lived through it. While I admire you for seeking answers and being willing to question, please understand the frustration we go through as the children who lived through it, yet are called liars and apostates by the very same people who abused us. There are thousands of us who have made it very clear that we were infact abused and it did indeed happen, there are documented accounts from Bergs own writings of horrific sexual and physical abuse of the children closest to him, yet people still question and have doubts as to the validity of these claims. I don't know what else to do to make people like you wake up and "smell the coffee"!! Please, you seem like a smart girl, go with your head and with logical reasoning and for a moment try to put out the emotional head trips TF puts you through and you will see the truth!!(reply to this comment)

From Blondie_B78 Thursday, October 23, 2003, 15:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Thanx Joyish. I totally understand why there are many x-members (FG & SG) who are so upset and outraged. When you have suffered nothing hurts worse than being called a liar. Over the past year there have been a good number of pubs coming out about dealing with & handling the "lies and exaggerations" being told by x-members. You would be hard pressed to find someone in TF who doesn’t have a loved one or relative who has left so it is definitely an issue. It’s easy to call someone you don’t know a liar but not someone you know, love and trust. Basically, TF is being advised to: . avoid sites like these :-p . that while x-members do have some legitimate complaints, these have been addressed and apologized for . for parents not to "give in" to guilt and condemnation over raising kids in TF (as long as they weren’t the abusers themselves). . that assorted demons plague and influence "apostates" to embellish and exaggerate their negative experiences and at times outright lie. . the end goal is to draw people away from Gods service thus titles like, "None of these things move me" & "Stay on the wall". I am 24 so while I did not see as much abuse etc. as many of you have, I did experience it. I know writing a detailed account of what happened to me might validate my position in the eyes of some people here but, for personal reasons, I choose not to. I still have family in the group. I want to gather as much info as I can for my own benefit but also for my parents. I’m not asking these questions because I doubt the stories posted on this site but because I want to understand and need as much information as possible. Has anyone put together a compilation of Bergs writings about child sex, incest etc ? (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, October 23, 2003, 18:54 (Agree/Disagree?) I know for a fact that several of the higher up leaders in The Phillipines in the 80's knew of one certain situation and let it go on for a long time. I have recieved neither an aknowledgement nor an apology from anyone. So, I beg to differ on the statement that all issues have been addressed and apologized for!!! And when you hear a leader of a large organization comprised mostly of children state "None of these things move me" with regards to claims of child abuse in her organization, doesn't it make you wonder???? As well as the statement that as long as it wasn't the parents themselves that were doing the abusing they should feel no guilt or condemnation at all when their children are abused?? Please, your answers are right in front of your face!!!(reply to this comment)

From Blondie_B78 Friday, October 24, 2003, 05:40 (Agree/Disagree?) I totally agree with you. Let me stress that the statements I mentioned were supposed to reflect WS sentiment - not my own. (reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, October 23, 2003, 17:58 (Agree/Disagree?) There is a brief compilation of some of Berg's writings regarding incest on this site. http://www.movingon.org/test/documents/incest.pdf(reply to this comment)

from sarafina Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 14:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I have someone who you can ask, she lived w/ David, Peter & Maria for yrs and grew up w/ Ricky but shes left also, all for very similar reasons. She doesn't go on this site though and I can't post her name. Send me and email and I'll forward it to her. (reply to this comment)

From sarafina Wednesday, October 22, 2003, 14:12 (Agree/Disagree?) PS. She was also there when all that hapened to Mene, she saw it all and Mene is still a friend of hers but is still pretty messed up, the story is actually pretty disgusting and sad but all true.(reply to this comment)