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Getting Real : Faith No More
I Need answers | from dawnbringer invictus - Friday, October 03, 2003
accessed 2789 times Just posting under my husbands name but had a question for you, Ricky. My name is Maria. I grew up in TF as well. I’m kind of ½ in ½ out at the moment and have been evaluating things, my personal belief structure etc. It was very interesting to read your viewpoints and about your experiences. I always figured you would have had a pretty difficult childhood. We all experienced the constant drilling to "be a good sample" but the amount of pressure you were under as a child to be just that must have been incredible.
I did see some abuse as a child but not an enormous amount. Most of my friends (out of TF) have seen or experienced some too. However, when that abuse is rationalized, denied or downplayed by someone religious it becomes all the more appalling. What James Penn said about abuse always being blamed on "weak Family members misinterpreting the word" is true. I always bought into that explanation until reading some of your posts, James article and a few of the things Deborah said as well.
I just need to know. Did you personally see/have knowledge that (not just suspicion) Berg sexually abused young teens/ children? Did you ever personally experience abuse? I know the latter is a very personal question and I know you’re probably sick of being "public property" but I really need to know. I was extremely disappointed that your mom didn’t answer the questions posed to her by a few SGA’s in the letter posed on this site. I desperately wanted to hear her say, "No, those things never happened in our house." Unfortunately, she could "neither confirm or deny" and I just can’t live with that. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from shins
Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 06:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
I hope you are out now- for the sake of your children you care so much about!
(reply to this comment)
| from krush
Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 01:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
An interesting thread has come out a few times in the comments on this article. "Do you miss the Word?". It seems that a huge importance was placed on this when we were kids and personally I think this would possibly have been a factor for me pre-Berg' death. Once the inspirational writings had disappeared and dependence on hearing from the spirit world and more fantastical writing became the “norm” then the Word lost most if not all of its allure. Plus Zerby had a way of harping on everything to the point of absolute frustration. She over simplifies everything, yet comes out with the most absurd and bemusing thoughts.
(reply to this comment)
| from anovagrrl
Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 12:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
Look deep within yourself, grasshopper. You know the answer to your question. But if you must prove it to yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt, click on this link: http://www.nevskiy.orthodoxy.ru/center/sprav/distruct/semia/izo_davida_berga.html
Your will find an illustration of Berg in a sexually seductive embrace with a naked little girl, most probably Techi, since the adult female in the picture looks like Zerby. It's from a Mo letter called The Little Girl Dream, which was published and distributed by TF. The Russian comment reads: Cult image of the prophet David, in the form of a saint with a halo overhead, with small girl during incest. Berg made no secret of his sexual exploitation of children--he published literature where he boasted about it.
As to whether Ricky was sexually abused: There's a photo of him in The Davidito book at about age 2 where his nanny Sara Davidito is performing fellatio. That meets the definition of child sexual abuse in just about every country.
(reply to this comment)
|  From Blondie_B78
Thursday, October 16, 2003, 23:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanx Anovagrrl! I checked out the link. Do you know if Davida left with similar stories? As I mentioned in my original article, I feel bad asking some of this stuff as Ricky and Davida both have their own lives now. Unfortunately (for them) they were the "prototypes" for our generation so their lives did have a lot of bearing on ours. If anyone wants to email me instead of posting you can reach me on - Blondie_B78@yahoo.com. I'm still technically FM but am making my decision this month. The biggest fear I have is failing - failing God, failing myself, failing my children. I've got to know the truth though. I've always taken things "by faith" but there's faith and there's stupidity...and there's fear.....fear to look because you might not like what you see. I can live with things that happened in my past. I can deal with them. My life doesn't only effect me anymore though. I have two children and I owe it to them to find out the truth. I sure any other mothers and fathers out there can relate.....(reply to this comment) |
| | From tigress
Monday, October 20, 2003, 07:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
Getting out when your kids are small is much easier, and I highly recommend it as they adjust better to a 'normal life'. Not so easy if you are single, but all is poss. When I think about how God and others helped us, then I know He is still there, TF or not. Working hard definetly got us into a good situation, esp. the kids. I never regret having left.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Eaglebleeds
Friday, October 17, 2003, 00:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think the best thing would be for that fear of failing God, failing yourself and failing your children to be tossed out. If you leave TF no one can say you've failed. I think you need a breather from propaganda. There's good Christian speakers out here and their only desire is to help others. Those are the ones to listen too. I don't know how much access you've had to Christian material outside TF but that belief of TF being the best and God's highest will is absolute bull. Any Christian that's not part of a cult or fanatically involved with a Church or trying to convert you will tell you that God's plan in each persons life is not to make them missionaries. What would happen if everyone was a missionary? That be a laugh. TF has got so much propaganda and I'm guessing thats all you had to read. When I was FM and reading only F materials I believed it all. It felt good to me to be part of a group that professed being the best in the world. My pride felt good and I believed. TF is full of SR people. There are sincere Christians in TF and I applaud them. But in truth, I believe TF is not a good place to raise Children. It never was and still isn't. You're not failing God or anyone when you do what you believe is right. Without faith its sin so you gotta go but what you believe. Watch out for propaganda though. It's been a stumbler for me in the past. I think you're on the right course and once you're completely out you'll find satisfaction in Loving God and passing on that love to others in any walk of life you choose. I recently read a book called "A Life God Rewards", boy it was good. It really helped me decide between what I believed and what I was trying to believe to look good. Just one last thing. Look around you, at the children raised and being raised in TF. Do you want your kids to turn out like them? Although TF has changed and could be argued that it's a good environment to raise children, it's still not the best. Private Schools aren't the best either but the provide a whole lot more then TF does and the only thing it lacks is spiritual and moral teachings and love and thats where their family and home comes in. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Blondie_B78
Friday, October 17, 2003, 21:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanx for the thoughts Eagle. At the moment getting involved with a church or reading Christian material is the last thing on my mind.
I'm examining my whole belief structure at the moment. I don't want to throw everything I have believed (up until this point) out the window. I would rather believe nothing at all than a lie. I was recently asked by a well-meaning family member, "Won't you miss the Word?" (Meaning, of course, publications from TF). My answer to that is - Yes. I have read Family publications every day for the past 20+ years. I was a sensitive child. I took things that I read very seriously. Whenever I went through personal difficulty I held onto what I had read, what I believed to be true. I have done my best to follow. Of course, it makes you feel good to believe that you have a special destiny, that you are important, that you are going to "rule the world someday", that of all Christians of earth you were personally chosen to be born into TF, Gods "elite troops"..etc..... But just because something makes you feel special doesn't mean it is true. That general attitude isn't unique to TF though but is prevelant in many other groups as well.
I don't believe that my children would be at risk of abuse if I were to remain FM. However, I do want to make sure that my "legacy" to them is something worth having though. I want to be the best mother I can be. Of course, I don't expect to find out the whole "truth" in one month but I can start with booting out unecessary crap and see where we go from there...
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Christy
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 15:45
 (Agree/Disagree?)
One of the main ways TF has hung onto its membership is through fear. They try to convince people that God will strike them dead if they "get out of God's will" (in other words, leave the group). Think letters like the Traumatic Testimony series, IRFERs Beware, The Stipping of the Slain, God's Vomit, and many more. Fear also comes into the picture more subtly, because TF has kept people off the job market so long and has discouraged education so people are afraid they won't be able to support themselves or their family if they leave.
Another method TF uses is propoganda. For example, all those appeals to the few, as in "We are It" use falacious logic. Critical thinking is discouraged by TF. I don't remember a whole lot from my logic class, it was one of the first classes I took after leaving, but maybe someone who knows more about it can point out all of the logical falicies that TF uses in order to keep people from leaving. Once you get away from the propoganda, you start to realize that there is so much more to life than the small world that TF has tried to convince you is the only truth. The least you can do is step back from it for a time to figure out what you really believe and how you want to live your life.
I know you're busy and have a family to take care of, but if you're able to do so, I'd highly recommend taking a few classes, perhaps at a community college. Particularly helpful would be a psychology, a woman's studies class (such as sociology of gender), and maybe a logical reasoning class. You may be surprised to realize that the ways in which TF has attempted to control your thought patterns and belief system are nothing new. You may even begin to wonder if these manipulations are used intentionally. After all, most of TF's top leaders are well-educated, yet they do everything possible to keep their general population from seeking out higher education or even high school education.
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| | From Blondie_B78
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 17:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
I can definitely relate to what you said about fear. I think the verse "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.." has been overused. Letters like "IRFers Beware" used to terrify me. One topic that came up in the course of conversation with my dad was tithing. He suggested that, as I wasn't going to tithe to WS, perhaps I could tithe to a nearby home - that way the Lord would still bless me etc... Actually, the thought had crossed my mind but when I mentally broke it down I realized that tithing because you think it will gain you God's blessing is like trying to buy Gods protection. To be fair, perhaps most people in TF don't tithe because of that but because they want to give to Gods work. I can only speak for myself.
I've actually been working (fulltime/parttime) for the past couple years. When I went for my first job I had to get a couple certificates before I could commence work. Just completing those gave me a big confidence boost. Because of my work I have access to studying (free) for any certificates/diplomas/undergrad degrees etc. from a local polytechnic as well. Been thinking about studying Psychology. I've noticed that a few people on this site have/are studing Psychology - would appeciate any thoughts/suggestions. Because of my age (mid-20's) I wouldn't have to show proof of former education (I don't have any records :-) but wonder if jumping right into it would be too difficult. ?? Any parents out there juggling kids, work and studying? Would love to hear any tips..(reply to this comment) |
| | From Christy
Monday, October 20, 2003, 21:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
When I first left, I continued tithing for a few months. I did it mostly to try to relieve some of the guilt and maybe, as you put it, to buy God's protection. I also did it because I believed it to be a Biblical/Christian principle. I soon realized that I wasn't even opening the fat envalopes of pubs I was receiving from WS. I stopped tithing without feeling the least bit guilty. I realized that I did not want to support a group whose doctrines and practices I cannot stand behind. I have since also come to understand that Jesus never taught his disciples to tithe. Instead, he taught them to give to the poor and needy.
I still donate occasionally to various causes, including some Family members (only people that I personally have worked with and know to be genuine, hard-working missionaries). Suze Orman's Nine Steps To Financial Freedom outlines some very good principles of charitable giving. Even from a non-Christian perspective, giving brings on blessings in our lives. However, the way TF teaches giving ("If you don't give, God will take a collection" and other such indoctrination) is as bad if not worse than the Pharisees (churches) they condemn.
Even though I'm still a Christian, I have not been able to bring myself to attend a church service of any kind. It's something that I feel I should be doing but organized religion has left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to again participate in religous activities. (reply to this comment) |
| | From tigress
Monday, October 20, 2003, 07:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
I had four kids at home, a full-time working husband and I went to school for one year, also full-time, 16 subjects, esp. computer programms, housework to do and made it with good grades,which was also a confidence booster, always being made feel 'stupid' in TF. I had no job papers and in this country you need papers for everything...(reply to this comment) |
| | From porceleindoll
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 21:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was in such fear of God punishing me I finally got sick of it and told God that if He ever punished me through my kids I'd never talk to Him again. It was just ridiculous that I was so terrified of my kids being abused, abducted, tortured, whatever, I finally had to face it dramatically and 'have it out' with my fear.
About tithing, according to the NT it is NOT a requirement to being a Christian, and many Christians, not just TF are deluded about it. Jesus never taught us to tithe. Just a thought to consider. I agree with your assessment that it's like trying to buy God's protection. It also becomes a form of lipservice after awhile.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Lauren
Monday, October 20, 2003, 09:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
Added to the tithing issue is, as far as I have been able to understand it, the fact that in the Old Testament the tithe was never about money. It was about land and animals (a land and animal tax, if you will). People who did not grow food or raise animals did not tithe. The tithe was meant to feed the priests and provide a real big picnic for anyone else hanging about the temple on the day it was given.
I reasearched this more in depth when it shocked the pants off of me to find out that modern day Jews do not tithe and most of the ones I've talked with haven't the faintest clue what I'm talking about when I ask them about it.
Much like you, Blondie, when making the decision about leaving the Family and especially right after the fact, I was terrified of God's wrath. It was mainly fear that kept me in the Family. -- Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't know. You may, like myself & many others I know, find out that once you leave the Family and stop buying in to all the "if you want God's blessings you'd better....." that you are more "blessed" than you can possibly imagine. Personally, if "God's blessings" are the criteria on which the decision of whether one should be in or out of The Family is based, then it would appear that God wants people OUT.
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| | | | | From Hanna_Black
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 06:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Funny, when my hubby and I decided to leave, I was asked the same question of wether we would miss the "WORD". Since I didn't want to start any sort of discussion on Beliefs, I said, "Well, I always have my bible and my link to God...!" That was when I was still a Christian, which I can't state at the current moment. My main reason I left was BECAUSE of my kids, and wanting to be able to give them the choice of choosing what they want to believe in themselves, without it being drilled into them leaving no room for questions. I had my own doubts about a lot of things, and couldn't read Family Publications to them of things I didn't believe...it didn'T feel right. Back then, I felt the same way you did, not wanting to have to throw out everything I believed in. At the moment I am not sure as to what exactly I believe in, if anything, but I am not worrying about it. It'll come to me. My kids on the other hand, do believe in God and Jesus and they like going to Sunday school or reading bible stories. If that fades when they are older and they don't want to do that anymore, that's up to them and I feel that is the way it should be. I don't think ANY belief, no matter how good it is, abuse or no abuse, should be forced on a child without giving it the option of choice. Otherwise, that kid might realize one day that everything taught to him was not the one and only way to do it, and I doubt that an experience like that is good for your psyche. I think it's better to not concentrate so much on the religious side of life, but just to live it to the fullest and enjoy. If part of you enjoys religion, that's fine. But if your whole life and each of your actions are just about your beliefs and you are afraid of doing things against those, it might be more of an obsession than you know.
My feelings anyhow.
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| | From Blondie_B78
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 18:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree that kids must make their own choices eventually. Parents have to both prepare for and expect that. It's extremely difficult for me to seperate what I believe (from the Bible) from what I have believed all my life (pubs from TF) and I'm sure it will be a lengthy process. Perhaps that's the reason why a fair number of SG ex-members end up agnostic, atheistic or in non-christian faiths. Partially because religion has left a bad taste in their mouths and partially because it is so difficult to seperate basic Christianity from everything that has been drummed into you all ur life (in TF). Not trying to stir up a hornets nest or judge anyone. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.
The fact that I have kids has made this decision all the harder. If I'm right in leaving I have nothing to worry about. If I'm wrong not only will my kids miss out on "our wonderful heritage" but I may also be risking the judgements of God falling on me and thus on them. It sounds stupid but for example....
I woke up a couple nights ago and my son (just turned 2) had a very high fever, he sounded out of breath... my first thought was, "Bronchitis or Pneumonia.." He has been rushed to hospial a few times over the past year. The doctors can't agree on which one it is. Second thought..."OMG..what if he's sick because of me...I haven't read much of anything over the past few weeks..I'm in the process of leaving TF..." I pray desperately that if God is trying to "speak to me" that I'll get sick instead of my baby. The fear is indescribible. My stomach turns when my children get sick as I frantically rack my brain to find what I have done to bring this on them....I just want them to get better...
Ok..at this point many people would tell me that I'm insane... This is, however, totally believable to people who grew up in TF. Have any of you had the same thoughts before? Don't you know people who have? I remember, starting at the age of 7, filling out forms about why I was sick whenever I came down with something. And no, it couldn't be, "I went outside without a sweater and caught a cold". "I was disobedient and went outside without a sweater.." would possibly do the trick though... The thing is, once you have children of your own, your "sins" not only bring sickness, accidents etc. down on your head but on your childrens as well because, hey, you'll pay more attention. Don't we all love our children.......(Ok..this has been way too long... :-) )
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| | From Banshee
Monday, October 20, 2003, 09:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
I so totally relate...It really was a thing in TF, though, basically that whatever happened to you (usually regardless of who originally caused it) was brought on by your sins/weaknesses/"NWOs", etc. But when you stop and think back, you'll see how often it was that, although we, the bottom-feeders and peasants and vassals were being punished for our sins, when anything happened to the leaders or their children, it was because "God was trying to teach them to have a broken heart...God wanted them to learn to trust Him...they were learning to be closer to the Lord..." and on the BS went.
Now, I am no Bible scholar, and I am in a similar place you are as far as "finding my faith," so I haven't done a Bible study on a ton of topics recently, but I dare say that you will not find a lot of connection in the NT that shows that every cold or cut is a punishment from God.
Personally, I just started getting so sick of all this stuff TF would concoct about God and His punishments and rewards system. It just never coincided with their supposed "God of Love." Seriously, think about it...what kind of loving God would punish your children for your mistakes? Have you ever disciplined one of your kids for something his sibling did? What a crock! God, it makes my stomach churn sometimes to think that I swallowed all that for so long...damn!!
NEway... my two cents, ha!(reply to this comment) |
| | From porceleindoll
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 21:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Totally relateable! About the fear and kids and the immediate "What have I done wrong to deserve this" reaction. It is such a lie the Family has hoisted on us to keep us in control. Believe me, your kids will not miss out on their wonderful heritage, if God and Jesus are who they say they are, they will always be there when your kids decide to turn to Him. In view of millenniums of time, I don't see how one little lifetime can make such a huge difference in your place in God's kingdom. And to be honest, if the Family is right, I would almost prefer having a little cottage somewhere on the new earth to living in Heaven with them.
The Family has also drummed into us the caste system and leadership and levels of importance, which are so stupid. I could care less who is more spiritual or of a higher level of importance in God's or anyone's eyes right now. I am important to the people who count, and we are equal to each other. It's a very stuck-up society. Of course, when I was in the group I was all-involved in the ladder society and who was better than I or more spiritual blah blah bullshit.
My youngest sister told me the other day she was a sinner. I asked what she had done to make her a sinner, she told me, "Everyone is a sinner, right?" And I said, "No, I'm not a sinner anymore, I just make mistakes once in awhile."
But we are not as bad as the Family would like us to believe. We are people, if God made us, we are perfect to Him, we screw up, we make mistakes, errors in judgement. The term sinner I believe was created to control people. If you can convince them they are sinners, you can exert control over their actions.
You aren't a sinner though, you are a person doing your best in life and taking life as it comes to you. You can't spiritualise everything, it's too silly to try and do that, and the Family had us doing it constantly. When I first left the group I thought I was going crazy and needed to see an expert of some sort.
One of my favorite quotes and one that was a foundation for many of my decisions regarding God, faith and the Family goes something like "It's a sad day when man lives in fear of punishment or hope of reward after death." Isn't that what we were doing in the group?(reply to this comment) |
| | From farmer
Sunday, October 26, 2003, 01:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think the family & it`s leaders have a great responsibilty
in perverting what is sin & what is good...(there`s even an OT
woe to them that call good evil & evil good)...I mean how many
died having been struck dead leaving the family...if anything I am healthier & happier now...by the way PD, if we`d know our Bibles well, we`d realise that Jesus came to free us from the
accusations (Romans 8:1)...If a group claims to follow Jesus
& makes so many mistakes knowingly or unknowingly, or should
I say crimes ...or sins...well, then it`s obvious you won`t
get punished if you leave them...it`s only in the minds...(reply to this comment) |
| | From KD
Monday, October 20, 2003, 10:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
I remember when my little girl would get sick I would ask my husband do you think I did something wrong that maybe I don't know about and God is trying to show me something through my daughter's illness, or, I would ask my husband who has no clue of any of my psychological disturbance&;(because he was never in TF or even heard about the group) some weird question like are you sure you not doing anything bad (trying hard not to use the word sinful or out of God's will wherever that is) our daughter has a cold.&;
Or sometimes I'd just take the longest time making any important and sometimes even small decision afraid of going out of God's will and in the end I realized I had just wasted a whole bunch of valuable time&;and opportunities&;and never got anything done because of being afraid of God and His will. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Tim R
Monday, October 20, 2003, 02:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
That was one of the things that always bothered me about them, one minute they would talk about their life of sacrifice and how much they gave up for the Lord, and then they'd start planning their golden heavenly mansion, and dreaming of a time when they would "Rule with a rod of Iron" etc. The Family was very mercenary when it came down to it, they all thought they'd be the aristocrats of the future.
If you left the Family though, it was down in the basements with the boots and the backsliders. LOL!(reply to this comment) |
| | From Eaglebleeds
Saturday, October 18, 2003, 04:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was alot like you in that I took what I read seriously and tried to implement every aspect of it into my daily life and when I'd go through something I'd hold on to it. But that doesn't have to change once you leave TF. I'm Christian and love the Lord and do my best to stay close to him. At first I did worry about what I'd read to stay strong because I thought only TF had Christian teachings, but that was total bull. I don't go to Church or hang out with Church people basically because my Christian beliefs are different from theirs. I just read the scriptures, books that teach me stuff that go along with what I believe and try to be a decent person. I think you're headin the right direction, for yourself and your family. I'm not trying to get you to read Christian stuff ......just hope you find whats best. My opinions can be a bit strong because I was wastin my life till I became Christian and I see so many X-members doing the same. I believe once someone finds a spiritual truth that they believe in their life changes for the better. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Eaglebleeds
Saturday, October 18, 2003, 04:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
My "tune" is still the same. If you'd actually read my full posts you'd know that or maybe you just get too confused while reading. And whats your "key"? The only thing you seem to add is lame juvenile criticism and have given the impression that you're high on dope too often. And is mockin one of my words the best you got? You're in aussie; where words, lingo and expressions are constantly being changed.(reply to this comment) |
| | From neez
Saturday, October 18, 2003, 22:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
No I don't read your full posts.. You use to many words like 'stumbler' to be taken seriously.
My tune would definately have to be Cafe Del Mar - Energy 52(Timo Maas Remix), A true classic.
But I would think one needs to learn to sing(privately, in the shower maybe) before one starts belting out said tune.
& just to clear up any apparent confusion. I've smoked various things, but I've yet to come across any 'dope'. I guess the Japanese must've hijacked the enitre 'dope' market at the end of the 60's when the last reported sighting of 'dope' occured. You still crack me up though.. you sound like my dad did many years ago.
As far as aussie words(lingo's & expressions are words) being constantly changed, that's news to me. Would you care to elaborate?
Oh.. & you mispelt 'mocking'
Tune it up EagleBoy..(reply to this comment) |
| | From SpellingNazi
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 06:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
Neez,
If anything Eaglebleeds uses 'too many' such words - not 'to many'.
Your 'tune would definitely have to be...' - not definately
As lingo is the general term for colloquial language, and not just for specific words, there is no need to pluralize it unless you are referring to lingo from more than one region or country. In which case, the correct spelling would be lingoes - not lingo's.
And just to make this that little bit more fun... the correct spelling is misspelt - not mispelt.
That doesn't even cover your grammar yet, in which you neglected the space before opening parenthesis; capitalised after a comma; and began a paragraph with a punctuation mark (ampersand).(reply to this comment) |
| | From sailor
Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 20:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
I normally would not correct anyone's spelling but since this is the "SpellingNazi" I just couldn't let this one go. It's "misspelled" nazi man, not "misspelt." If you are using semicolons to separate items in a series, there must be some form of puncutation other then a semicolon following the word or phrase which is preceded by a semicolon.
I suppose that you are in England, otherwise you would be breaking rules regarding punctuation preceding quotation marks.
Dude, I'm sure that I am going to make many mistakes in this posting, but I am writing a quick online posting, not a paper for class or a dissertation.
Christy, what you said about taking psychology and logic classes is so true. I took a course in logic a while back and I understood the Family's tactics much better after that course. It was interesting to learn about how fear is used to control people, especially the part of the course which desciribed the methods used by Koresh and Jim Jones which were very similar to the methods used by the Family leadership. The screwed up thing is that most Family members have been taught for so long not to doubt that they would never listen to alternative viewpoints with an open mind. (reply to this comment) |
| | From SpellingNazi
Wednesday, October 22, 2003, 07:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
Copied from www.dictionary.com:
2 entries found for misspelt .
mis·spell ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ms-spl)
tr.v. mis·spelled, or mis·spelt (-splt) mis·spell·ing, mis·spells
To spell incorrectly.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
misspelt
Misspell \Mis*spell"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Misspelled, or Misspelt; p. pr. & vb. n. Misspelling.] To spell incorrectly.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Benz
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 19:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Despite the minor punctuation and grammar infractions, Neez is far better written than his counterpart.
As for the slur directed at Neez’s credibility merely due to “constantly changing lingo(es)”of a particular country, that is hardly noteworthy much less relevant seeing as it occurs in every country, to every language and there is no evidence to show it occurs more in Australia than the US or Japan.
At least most of our songs are in one language, unlike Japan where songs are strewn with indiscriminate English sentences among Japanese lyrics.
Neez, lets get Roy & HG to take the piss out of this Galah.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Benz
Monday, October 20, 2003, 22:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
Mediocre pun by the way. - May we assume your entire knowledge of Australia is what you’ve seen in the movies (recalling your previous comments regarding Dundee, Steve Irwin & now the Lindy Chamberlain story), you will probably appreciate: http://au.geocities.com/bellejazz_oz/movies.html, a terrific information source for your future research.
Or, you could get BabelFish to help…
By the way, my humorous jibes are forms of endearment, not of callous rage/ anger. You’re free, however to view them the same way you do your art (any which way you wish).
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Monday, October 20, 2003, 23:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
Since I named (most of) the sections of this site, you should know by now my humour is rather cheesy. I can entertain myself for hours, which is the important thing. As you also probably recall, my entire knowledge of Australia is what I have read from Douglas Adams.
It is nice to see you back Benz (though didn't you promise to shake the dust off of your feet?)(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 01:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Mmmmm. Can’t remember the last time I quoted a Bible verse but I’ll take your word I said that about the feet shaking.
I was satisfied when you resigned as chief editor/ administrator (aka: non-descript overlord). Increased transparency of the newly appointed organisation contributed further to making my decision allowing you to be so marvellously graced with my presence once again. (Though I agree the site it remains wholly inadequate).
But, the main reason I’m now posting: I discovered my destiny, in an episode of divine and supernaturally predetermined altruism I realised my life’s purpose to be a shining light to all the members of this website. Not merely a shining light though, but an undeniable source of wisdom, support and guidance, a symbol of hope, truth, decency, goodness, generosity, tolerance, magnanimity and benevolent humanity!!
So you see, it’s fate that binds me to this junk-yard of cyber space (and subsequently to its largely desultory participants).
(reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Wednesday, October 22, 2003, 13:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hmm I seem to recall you saying something similar. I doubt however that it is "Fate" that keeps you around but more your insatiable need to "rescue and nurture those who don't see their full potential" . You said "the main reason I’m now posting:.. I realized my life’s purpose to be a shining light to all the members of this website..." Are you sure your not just back cause your back in school now and home more often and need a little entertainment between assignments? = P lol To be honest I'm a little surprised to see you back after the things you've always said about the site.
Oh and what exactly would you know about "wisdom, support and guidance, a symbol of hope, truth, decency, goodness, generosity, tolerance, magnanimity and benevolent humanity"?LOL I hope your just trying to be funny cause it's really funny that you would see yourself as such when your quite the opposite. However it is nice to see you back, if anything I'm sure the participants on here could use a little entertainment and you can be very entertaining. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Wednesday, October 22, 2003, 20:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hm, sarcasm darling, sarcasm….
One tear for you
One for this site,
Believe that it’s true
And entirely contrite,
Life is a satire
And we are its mark,
Thrown to the pyre
Is cruelty so stark,
Unbothered by the lurk
Of meddlesome prioress
Shameless pryer of irk
I live, dream, impress!!
I thank your dragging thoughts into this confabulation.
Question: Exactly who or what are you trying to defend, or was that “rescue”??
- Kisses and love to all your family…Curtsy, bow and adieu, dearest irksome pryeress.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 01:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
No need for tears
No need to taunt
Was just pun to my leers
Not written to daunt
So if I'm a pryeress
Deity of my irkness
let ME bow to you Highness
and continue beguilness
and in this end
I'm but a rook
yet forsee pin
but the chance I took
Unlike you
Sameless it be that I do
you live, dream, impress!!
I live , I do ,and all undresed
As for your poem I'd say I was pleasantly intrigued and may go so far to say completely decieved .. however to say such would only be a disgrace as I've been told in the matter of poetry I have vulgar taste.
So I stoop, dip, bend and fare you well too. Don't be aloof as it's but for the day. I intend to continue and hope to persuade.
As for your question "Exactly who or what are you trying to defend, or was that “rescue”?? It was nothing for how can you rescue someone if you cannot even save yourself.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 19:21
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Pointer on beguiling:
Never assume the subject of your game has the desire to play with you.
Desire is ruled by the mind which in turn is ruled by our senses.
No offence but my senses tell me the glass is only half full with stale beer and rife with other people’s backwash. – I’d therefore rather not touch it, drink from it, or play its game.
On the other hand, Jules seems unwilling to finish a game she started. I duly assume she has conceded defeat being no match for such incredible wit, or is just a coward.
Meanwhile, a fondle farewell to you darling!!
(reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 20:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok, now that last comment of yours was completely unnecessary and I ask you to withdraw it. You have no reason to say such things about me. I was only having fun and paying you a compliment and I never have said anything mean like that to you nor to anyone one this site esp. not something so crude. You have no reason to say such cruel things about me as I have never said anything to cause such personal insults. If you feel that your comments were merited please let me know why as I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to explain yourself..unless your just simply just a nerdowell who thrives off cruelty and hurt of others.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 20:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Under no circumstances will I withdraw! – Merely a standard reply to someone who shamelessly touts of beguiling as if it was acceptable and desirable conduct.
You put yourself in the position for such a remark, and I will not be held to blame for your “hurt”.
- Provoke not, & you will not be offended. – I on the other hand, cannot be offended or hurt by you.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Friday, October 24, 2003, 13:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was not "hurt" merely disappointed that someone of your prestige would recourse to such loathly jolts. I had higher expectations of you. To resort to personal insults is usually a move made only when stumped. As for the use of "beguilness" I realize that may have been to diverse a word. I meant it only as "pleasurably, engaging" Hmm now that I think about it I can see how that might sound like a position but certainly not one of provoking.
For what should I feel shame for? I'm not the one letting senses rule my mind.
And while you speak of half full glasses in plenty, I'd rather be half full then empty and dry.
Before I go thanks for the fondle and farewell to you also Darlin(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Sunday, October 26, 2003, 22:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
The weekend now is over. The numerous half EMPTY, stale, backwash rife beers upon which I glutted myself have led me to consider I may have been overly harsh toward your good self.
In an exceptional feat of recantation I now revise my opinion of you. - Now not a beguiler (though certainly not guileless).
In a spirit of compromise I now wish that we might part amicably upon a mutually acceptable recitation of an Australian rendition of the Lords Prayer as follows below:
AUSTRALIAN MANS PRAYER
Our beer
Which art in bottles
Hallowed be thy sport
Thy will be drunk
I will be drunk
At home as I am in the pub
Give us each day our daily schooners
And forgive us our spillage
As we forgive those who spillest against us
And lead us not into the practice of poofy wine tasting
And deliver us from Tequila
For mine is the bitter
The chicks and the footy
Forever and ever
Barmen
-----
AUSTRALIAN WOMANS PRAYER
Our cash
Which art on plastic
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Cartier watch
Thy Prada bag
In Myer
As it is in David Jones
Give us each day our Platinum Visa
And forgive us our overdraft
As we forgive those who stop our Mastercard
And lead us not into Katies
And deliver us from Sussans
For thine is the Dinnigan, the Akira and the Armani
For Chanel No 5 and Eternity
Amex
- Salam Ou Alakum
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Sunday, October 26, 2003, 22:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
The weekend now is over. The numerous half EMPTY, stale, backwash rife beers upon which I glutted myself have led me to consider I may have been overly harsh toward your good self.
In an exceptional feat of recantation I now revise my opinion of you. - Now not a beguiler (though certainly not guileless).
In a spirit of compromise I now wish that we might part amicably upon a mutually acceptable recitation of an Australian rendition of the Lords Prayer as follows below:
AUSTRALIAN MANS PRAYER
Our beer
Which art in bottles
Hallowed be thy sport
Thy will be drunk
I will be drunk
At home as I am in the pub
Give us each day our daily schooners
And forgive us our spillage
As we forgive those who spillest against us
And lead us not into the practice of poofy wine tasting
And deliver us from Tequila
For mine is the bitter
The chicks and the footy
Forever and ever
Barmen
-----
AUSTRALIAN WOMANS PRAYER
Our cash
Which art on plastic
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Cartier watch
Thy Prada bag
In Myer
As it is in David Jones
Give us each day our Platinum Visa
And forgive us our overdraft
As we forgive those who stop our Mastercard
And lead us not into Katies
And deliver us from Sussans
For thine is the Dinnigan, the Akira and the Armani
For Chanel No 5 and Eternity
Amex
- Salem Ou Alakum(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Eaglebleeds
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 21:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
You wrote, "As for the slur directed at Neez’s credibility merely due to “constantly changing lingo(es)”of a particular country, that is hardly noteworthy much less relevant seeing as it occurs in every country, to every language and there is no evidence to show it occurs more in Australia than the US or Japan. "
I didn't say Australia changes their lingo more then other countries. I said he should understand when a word is changed slightly in pernounciation because Aussie's do it too. And his credibility wasn't slurred for the above reason. I questioned it because of the fact that he only critisizes and mocks, never offering anything worth reading.
And since you did bring up Japanese songs, they make alot more money and way more popular then Aussie ones. I'm not trying to defend Japan here, just stating the facts.
You also wrote, "Despite the minor punctuation and grammar infractions, Neez is far better written than his counterpart. "
I can see why you'd think this. Obviously you also don't read everything I write or just don't understand what you read.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Sunday, October 19, 2003, 22:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
You’re right Aussie artists are far less popular/ successful THAN Japanese ones.
Bands, groups and singers like:
AC/DC, Inxs, Powderfinger, Machinegun Fellatio, Men at Work, Cold Chisel, Kylie Minogue, Regurgitator, Spiderbait, Midnight Oil, Hoodoo Gurus, Ice House, Ben Lee, Casey Chambers, Savage Garden, Tommy Emmanuel, Keith Urban, Delta Goodrem etc.
- are practically unheard of and the entire sum of their achievements would be eclipsed by the recent album by Mitsubishi Shogun Wasabi (or was that Toyota Ramin Pachinko?).
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Eaglebleeds
Monday, October 20, 2003, 02:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
The only ones I've heard of are Savage Garden and Kylie Mingoue. So either my knowledge of Aussie bands is very limited or they just aren't that famous. Probably the first. But at the same time you don't know much about Japanese music. I'm no fan of it but it's the biggest seller in the Asian Market.
Neez and Benz,
I don't know why we're always goin at each other, mainly Neez and I, and I'm not even sure who started it anymore. It's obviously pointless cause it's gotten to fighting, mockery and not debating, which it should be. I say let's just drop it and stick to facts and constructive criticism. We're supposed to be helpin each other out. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Eaglebleeds
Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 03:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
No shittin.......but if you want to carry on that's cool. I just don't have the time for it cause I'm very busy. Although, when I get provoked it's hard to stay away. So, when I get the time I'll do my best to answer your criticism. But I'm starting to wonder if they're really provocative questions or if you're just trying to get a laugh. Whichever, it's fine by me.
Have we ever met? (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Christy
Thursday, October 16, 2003, 22:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Out of curiosity, do any older former members remember seeing this picture in a letter, or remember a letter by that title? It seems made up to me. I'm not saying Berg never molested any young girls; I believe Ricky's accounts. I also read enough while in the group (before and after the book purges) to know what was going on. However, I really don't remember ever seeing or hearing of this particular "letter". (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Blondie_B78
Friday, October 17, 2003, 18:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok. This is asking the obvious but what was the "Little Girl Dream" about? Was "Grandpa" shagging a little girl or something?? I remember "Sex with Grandmother". That was pretty scary. I'm sure she turned over in her grave over that one. Also had an unpleasant flashback when someone (not sure if it was here or perhaps on the James Penn site??) mentioned one of the final chapters in Heavens Girl - the one where Berg comes back in the spirit and shags "Mama" and Techi in the same bed. Ewww... (reply to this comment) |
| | From Aita
Friday, October 17, 2003, 08:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
I remember it, and I'm not as old as some of the others here. There was also a condensed version of it in one of the DB's. I think they cut it out during one of the purges. But if you have any of the DB's (since you say you're FM) you'd probably be able to see the title in the index.
If I'm not mistaken, in the DB version there was a small photo of a young girl at the beginning of the letter. This original drawing was only in the long Volume version.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Blondie_B78
Thursday, October 16, 2003, 23:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanx for the replies guyz. I'm married to Dawnbringer. I don't remember "The Little Girl Dream". Perhaps I was too young. Was that in Volume 6? I was an early reader but my mom never let me near that book. She nearly flipped out when she caught me reading the ESing section in one of the "Heavenly Helpers" books when I was six. Pretty sure I was reading it for the 3rd time though and to this day I still have the "how to check for VD" instructions vividly etched in my mind.... maybe that's a good thing.. hahaha.. Do you have a copy of "Heaven's Girl"? When was that recalled? Wasn't it in the early 90's? (reply to this comment) |
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