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Getting Real : Ask Alf
Destroy the Family... | from Alf - Sunday, March 31, 2002
accessed 3744 times OK, so I''''d like to hear some practical suggestions from people. Really, how hard could it be to devise a strategy to break up and discredit (!) a bunch of borderline mental cases? Mmkay kids?...As far as I can see, there is quite a profusion of ''''crush the Family'''' type sentiment, but not a whole lot of practical (semi)intelligent discussion about action that people are prepared to take. Aside from pointless memoir writing and empty lawsuit threats what can really be done? Could anyone concerned with the destruction of ''''the Family'''' as a viable organisation really be bothered to take concrete steps?
Considering that the Family is effectively an organisation of quite deluded personality types, why should the destruction and breaking-up of such a group prove so difficult? Granted the problems are:
- obsessive paranoid secrecy/security
- extremely close knit mutually supporting psychosis within the group
- unwillingness to accept reality
Is it possible to convince Family members of their own mental incompetence? How could this be gone about? I''''d really like to open up a big discussion on this, so please... suggestions.
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from jesus josephes
Monday, March 17, 2003 - 05:59
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Recognize the Golden Rule: He who has the gold rules. It is so simple. The leadership or should I say the closed-mouth tight-fisted ones have the gold that has been willingly handed over to them. If they don't have the gold they can't rule.
All religious groups,sadly, would fit into the same analysis as you gave of the Family. To fight them you would have to fight human nature and the need to believe in something.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Followthegravytrain
Monday, March 03, 2003 - 10:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
As some people have already said, we can not get them on Child Abuse, as it is far too difficult to prove, and even then the Family will simply sacrifice a few members and the Top stays free.
Brain washing doesn't work either as it is impossible to prove.
Only one way to do it, Money.
The Majority of the Family is not NGO or any other registered charity, so they are required to pay taxes, my Dad was once a "Media Spokesperson" and I put this question to him, his answer was simple "Don't you think anyone has already thought of this, if there was any proof then we would have already been prosecuted"
That was an amazingly frank statement from a Family member, so I spent a long time trying to keep track of where it went.
For this example I will use South Africa.
The money is divided between a fair few people so as not to attract attention, first it is raised by the poor people in Homes, then given to a nice VS, in this case Andrew VS, yep he is still at it, he carries this cash around in his personal bank account as long as possible.
Then it is moved up a level, to the CROW (family name Galileo) when the CROWS (what does that stand for anyway) money is moved to WS.
In my opinion there is no WS bank account where the countless millions are stored for Maria's spending, it is more likely that many "trusted" members are keeping it, if it stays below a certain amount it doesn't really "register" on the Radar, such as the legal amount one can carry from one country to another in travellers checks.
This method is often used by Drug Cartels and Terrorist organizations, it's just plain old money laundering
I think the key would be to find out as much information of the people who hold this cash, and have some sort of Audit run on them all at the same time, this would show how much money was had.
Again a problem arises, these people have no real legal affiliation with one another, so there is little way to prove that all the money is being help by a singular group making it impossible to sue for tax fraud
Only thing I can think of at this time is to actually leak the idea of a Tax Audit being run on them, we all know how paranoid these people are so it could in theory halt movement of funds and even slow general activity within the group.
IN conclusion, the Family owes a lot of people a lot of money, we must find a way of informing these people where it is.
Disclaimer: I realise that this account has many "loop holes" as well as the plan itself but at the time I left this was pretty close to the facts
(reply to this comment)
|  From Hobbit
Monday, March 03, 2003, 19:50
 (Agree/Disagree?)
i lived in several Cro's home, and the most amazing thing was to see the amount of money they would spend in their own families. Juan daugthers, Leila, Mikol, Fechi, Esther, i remember they all had an platinium or gold credit card. they would always shop at las Condes( which is the most high- high mall their is in Chile). but our home couldn't take in a single mom because she would be a burden to the work of god.(reply to this comment) |
| | From J.
Wednesday, March 12, 2003, 17:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hobbit, I suggest before you go claiming to "know" all about what happened in the Cro's homes you should be sure to have your facts straight.
I am one of Juan's daughters and never once did I have either a gold or platinum credit card in the family. My dad never treated us any different than the other young people in The Family.
When and where in Chile did you live?
I am very much against the Family, and in no way am defending it, but if you're going to name off examples about stuff in The Family at least know what you're talking about. --No one wants to waste their time reading exaggerated and concocted bullshit, when there are so many other "real" issues to be concerned about.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From .JESS
Thursday, March 20, 2003, 11:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Really? Who's "me"? Frankly I don't give a shit, I just think it's hillarious that you're all gutsy to throw out whatever you feel like when it comes to something you have no clue about, but then when it's time to your name, you don't even have the balls for it.
I'm not surprised you didn't like me or my family, becuz I probably didn't like you to begin with. I don't much like hanging around people who aren't up front and honest--and unfortunately you...um, I can't decide which of the 10 names you posted here I should use --aren't! (reply to this comment) |
| | From to Jess
Saturday, April 12, 2003, 03:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
the person who has written above under "me" was suplanting me or "Cholito, pantalón blanco", which is my nickname. anyway Jess, i´m not poblete, in fact, i do not even know that guy. i knew you when you were living in Santiago, and i remember i used to like you very much, but then my good old friend Jo... told me how was your behavior in terms of fidelity and i truly think that you have used him, i don´t think that´s fair, i´m not making a judegement here, but you know, Jo... used to be a good friend of mine and the poor guy has suffer a lot because of you.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From me again
Friday, March 14, 2003, 12:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Just wanned to say in honor of trueth that you guys might be right about jess, but at the same time i know that you can't judge ppl the way they used to be 10 or 5 years ago. one thing is the way they used to be in the cult, but out it's defferent, you know, living on your own teaches you things that make you grow, maybe that's the way she was be fore but i'm sure now she's different, it's not the same to be Juan's daughter or janes or any sheapher 's kid for that matter,inside the cult, out side you're on your own.
I don't really care if they ever had a gold card or not, really as a daddy i'll give my kids the best and that's their own business.I used to live with Lei like 10 years ago and I know for a fact she didn't have this kind of cards, cause or home was a real financial desaster and she didn't have a penny.
Going back to the start; life bring things to your path which make you be better or sweeter I don't know if this is jess reality but i know a lot of people who weren't very nice inside the group but now are mature and nice.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Mikol
Monday, March 10, 2003, 10:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would just like to say that this is comment about me having a gold or platinum credit card is totally NOT true. Not only is that not true but I never did live in Chile so it would be impossible for me to "always shop at Las Condes" as was stated. I didn't own a credit card until I left the fam. 5 years ago and I can assure you that I got that one on my own. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Cultinvator
Monday, March 24, 2003, 23:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have a gold card.... I'll take you out for dinner if you want to see it...
Kidding. I met your sister in Brazil. You girls are a bunch of cool chicks by me! Believe it or not I used to sing the rayitos de amor songs from that orange tape when I was a kid and some of the songs still resonate in my mind... you were my 4 yr old day idols...lol!
BTW how's life?
Jonathan. (I don't know you personally, but got pretty close to meeting you in Texas once) (reply to this comment) |
| | From Cultinvator
Monday, March 24, 2003, 23:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have a gold card.... I'll take you out for dinner if you want to see it...
Kidding. I met your sister in Brazil. You girls are a bunch of cool chicks by me! Believe it or not I used to sing the rayitos de amor songs from that orange tape when I was a kid and some of the songs still resonate in my mind... you were my 4 yr old day idols...lol!
BTW how's life?
Jonathan. (I don't know you personally, but got pretty close to meeting you in Texas once) (reply to this comment) |
| | From Cholito, pantalón blanco
Saturday, March 15, 2003, 13:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
"... but i never did live in Chile..." there was once upon a time a wedding in the house in "La Reina" where your mother used to live, and though i have a limited sight, i´m nearly sure that i saw you there, in fact, i have a picture of yours with the bride, Mikol, that took place in Chile, so, someone is foulting the true here.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Mikol
Thursday, March 20, 2003, 09:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Whoever you are get your facts together. I was indeed in Chile visiting my family who lived there and it just so happened that the wedding took place during my visit. And for the record I am only posting this here to make you look like an idiot and not to defend myself. Stupid comments deserve stupid answers.(reply to this comment) |
| | From cholito, pantalón blanco, botones en la cintura
Saturday, April 12, 2003, 02:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
"...I am only posting this here to make you look like an idiot and not to defend myself. Stupid comments deserve stupid answers..."
if i am an idiot, and my comments are so stupid, why one would like to spend a single second trying to prove her point, or defend herself. I´m fond of your politeness, specially when uttering those tender comments about my intelectual skills and your very particular view with respect to my not very cleaver speech, as you so politely put it. best wishes, Cholito
(reply to this comment) |
| | From me again
Saturday, March 15, 2003, 14:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
she was just visiting cholo, I was there too and really, what's the big deal about shoping in the nicest moll of a city, what's the big fucking deal about having a gold card or what ever card you wanna have, when you guys become fathers or mothers you'll do the same for your kids evry one has the right to give their kids what ever they fucking want.The point here was about ''distroying the fam'' not about the ''Rosas'' family which by the way fuck them too!(reply to this comment) |
| | From cholito...
Saturday, March 15, 2003, 17:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
one thing is to give everything you can to your children with your own money and the fruit of your work, as i´m sure you do, but another thing, as in the case of mikol, jess, esther, etc, is to give things to your children due to the sacrify of several poor misionaries, i mean, is not their foult to get what daddy gave them with the money of the fam, is juan´s mistake, i think. when you were in the family, were you able to give everything you wanted to to your kids, perhaps you were not, but i´m sure juan could because of poor misionaries money(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Isa
Saturday, March 22, 2003, 13:11
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Mikol;Just to show the nature of this site,idiots who have nothing else to do than just getting in here and write stupidities such as this.
I know that some people do express hurt feelings and are honest, but let's face it; most of these is just pure b-shit, if anything- articules or comments like this one- make you wonder whether most the things in here wirtten are true.
That was my wedding, we all know you were visiting at the time.
and about the golden card or whatever card they were talking about your dad had given you I was telling somebody last night that i wish lei had had one of those in this one home we used to live, cause we were so broke that a golden card could have been a real help at the time.
Even though I ve been out for more than a year now, I can't really lose the respect that i have for ppl who did a lot for me in a good way, I don't know how your dad was to other ppl, but with me the guy was always very nice, leila is a sweet heart, she's very simple and sweet, how can someone turn against someone like her or even think on hurting them or their children in anyway by ''destroying the family''
All i'm saying here is that you can't put the entire family in a box and think every one in it has no right to exist,and all the crap you hear.
Anyway, take care!(reply to this comment) |
| | From to Isa
Saturday, April 12, 2003, 03:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
déjate é weiar y chuparle la corneta a ehtoh weone, hahta cuándo shushitumarre?
who r u to come and question the above? you think ´couse u r a father you don´t have to have principles? i´m sad for you man, you don´t have to beg for the crumbs of friendship these guys, i mean the "Rozas" family, are dropping to the floor of indignity, i´feel very sad for you Isa (reply to this comment) |
| | From bintoro
Sunday, March 23, 2003, 20:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Agreed to some extent, but I wouldn't now categorize this site because of a few obvious "underprivileged" losers. You will find the weak and critical in every group you frequent or belong to. I wasn't born into TF but joined later in life.
I was brought up a Catholic, and though there were (and are) definitely some tried and proven pervies in the group, I don't blame everyone, nor would I find it necessary to try to destroy them. I also think the Pope is a cool guy, very sincere, and doing more than most, especially at his age. Juan and others did try their best. Sorry that it bothers some people that he has money. I never felt like he was that much nicer to his kids than anyone else. It just appears like that if you are looking from the wrong perspective-envy. I recently went to a wedding and picked up the tab at a restaurant in San Diego for $600 plus 20% tip. I don't really have that kind of money but it just seemed like the right thing to do because the other parties I was eating with were paying the bulk of the other activities which were much more pricey and way out of my league financially. It felt good actually, and at the wedding itself since food drink etc. everything was already taken care of, we were all pretty equal "financially". But then the next few days some of the others rented jaguars, played golf daily, etc. and I just had to bow out because I don't have that kind of income. (even if I did, that isn't what I would have chosen to do ) These guys were loaded. I had a choice, to disclaim them because they are rich, hate them because they didn't treat me equally, or just bow out and do what I normally do for fun. I chose the latter and I had a great time. If I would have spent all my time thinking about all they could do and how life isn't fair to me I would have ben f....d. The answer to every problem is not to disclaim it and destroy it. I have found better results in doing what I like to do and get on with my life and not worry what others are doing. I had a screwed up childhood, and some of my brothers and sisters blame all their ills on my poor dead father. Me, and some of the others let it past. It's a waste of time and energy. I barely have enough time to take a day off every week with all that's going on in my life without spending hours brooding over who didn't treat me right. God bless you Mikol, and Isa for coming to her defense. That's the beauty of this site. We can make it what we want it to be. Positive anything is better than negative nothing. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Nan
Monday, March 24, 2003, 13:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
I do NOT want to become involved in petty personal feuds. I would, however, like to respond to what, as I read, seemed to be one of the points of a comment/comments above. There are some people whose families and parents were exploited by the cult. There are others who were allowed special privileges which contravened cult doctrine and policy due to their parent’s or family’s status or money. I can understand their resentment. The cult itself is hypocritical.
Most families and children lived in poverty. If their parents came into any money or possessions, they were meant to be taken away and given to the “home.” I can recall lots of children, including my own siblings, never having proper clothing or shoes or dental or health care. When our personal family was given clothing by our relatives, it was always taken from us and given to other children in the home, mainly the “home shepherd’s” children. I did, however, notice that mainly children of “leadership” had not only nice clothing, but they had jewelry. I can remember several CRO’s children who were repeatedly receiving clothing from their grandparents, while some other children in the home had less than two outfits of clothing or one pair of shoes. It was a double standard. Some people in the cult exploited their positions of power. It wasn’t right, but neither was anything which had to do with that cult.
Those who experienced these inequalities have more than a right, in my mind, to voice their grievances. They have right to be bitter or unforgiving. They don’t owe anyone here anything. They certainly don’t have to give their name when demanded or have to be “positive.” This is not your mama’s cult no more. The same sick rules do not apply. Those who are grieved have right to bitch. They have right to speak their minds. I, personally feel based on my reading of the law, that they have a right to name names. I, personally, support the airing of all grievances against that cult. It’s healing. It’s cathartic. It’s legal. It’s just. It’s needed.
I’m so tired of the same mentality the cult constantly proposed of being “positive,” being “forgiving” or being “happy.” Screw that! It was one of the ways in which they oppressed people and have managed to continue to bully people into silence. No more silence! Silence keeps people living in pain. If someone wants to complain about the abuse they suffered, if they want to complain about something as small as having been unfairly treated in comparison to the hypocritical cult leadership and their personal families, then more power to them. I take issue with anyone who defends someone as powerful as Juan. I do not have personal issue with him, but he is nevertheless the embodiment of the cult. He is the cult’s own tool. For his position and power, he was the cult. He’s near as culpable as Berg and Zerby themselves. He was complicit all those years. Through him, Zerby and Berg exploited thousands. If it were not for people like Juan and his counterparts, Berg and Zerby would not have had such far reaching effects over so many lives. Juan was their accomplice which makes him equally culpable under criminal law theory. It is the same theory by which military generals and their immediate officers are tried for war crimes. Even when one did not give an order, if they carried it out, then they are equally culpable.
So, cry me a river for Juan and anyone else with equal position in that cult, but I’m not buying it. He may not have harmed you directly, but he harmed plenty more. I have no thoughts on his family or children, unless they participated in a leadership position and were complicit in exploitation. I do, however, see no harm in allowing those grieved by the double standard in the cult to speak their minds. No forum has previously existed. Truth is an absolute defense. I’m sure as they have in the past, the cult will nit-pick their complaints to death if they get some detail wrong.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From 1984
Saturday, April 12, 2003, 03:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
agreed, very well written Nan. the problem with some people like Isa is that they don´t want to see facts, reality, they see Juan, Zerby, Berg, etc as part of their experience through life, what a naive and candide point of view, there is so much to get ride of yet in these poeple´s minds.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Isa
Monday, March 24, 2003, 22:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
You see Nan, most of us, at least my wife and I and a few others who i know, who have left the family for what ever reason we- in this case is; ''I''- might have to do so, don't really feel like being negative anymore about certain friends we still have within the cult.After i left i lost contact and the trueth is i didn't wanna see anyone who was part or used to be part of the fam.I know what you mean when you talk about people having more than you, my wife was a single mom when I met her and I know how she felt and things she went thrugh as a young single mom. cause on top of it all the f.baster who got her pg never bought a f... diaper for the daughter,BTW he was an SGA.So what fucking right you have to say you take issue on anyone who defends Juan, in the first place who is defending him I don't know about'' bin whatever name he has'' but i was stating a point about writting the trueth, if you don't like him or zerby or Peter that's your f... problem i couldn't care less what you think on him or maria or peter I couldn't give a shit if your opinion on him is bad.the guy was nice to me and that is my fucking problem and If I feel like saying it don't worry about it. there're people in the fam who I don't want to see or talk to, because of the things they did to dear friends of mine or even to my self but this guy or his wife and sam and lei are not in that category, untill now they've only showed me kindness and to my children and that speak for itself.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From 1984
Saturday, April 12, 2003, 03:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Isa, Isa Isa... what you seem to avoid here is the main point of everything written above. Berg was also nice to many people, specially when they lived in those poor places in Spain, in fact, he was the one who put water to a whole little town in the country side, so, following your system of argumentation and logic, these people, who were the beneficiaries of Berg´s charity concider him as a good man. but, what do you think Deborah or Mene would think of him? would they think he is a good man, the same guy who was molesting them? as an advice, stop defending people (Juan) who were accomplece in Berg´s crimes. (reply to this comment) |
| | From
Saturday, April 12, 2003, 13:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Right on, '84. And on top of all that, these "handouts" were bought with money we children earned on the hard pavements of the globe, all the while, being abused in ways unimaginable to outsiders. The aggrandise themselves for their own advantage with our blood, sweat and tears (when I say "they," I am including Cruella Zerbylle, who has been praised to high stinkin' heaven for her "kindnesses" as though that made false anything that James Penn revealed).
On the days when I think there might be a Buddha, I pray that justice will be done, whether in this incarnation or any other. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Nan
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 01:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
"What you are speaks so loudly, I cannot hear what you say."
Ever hear the term "Uncle Tom?" I think we have an "Uncle Juan" here.
BTW, dude, you are a perfect example of what JoeH speaks when he talks about defiling the English language. It ain't nice to say, but you like old Bin[boro], have pissed me off. I cannot even follow your comment for it is replete with so many grammatical errors. Further, it is so logically redundant I know not where you go or come. You argue yourself into a knot that I cannot follow. "What fucking right" do I have to take issue with anyone who defends Juan? My fucking civil rights, those of free fucking speech. I take issue with anyone who defends the leaders of a sexually and physically exploitative religious cult whose primary victims are and were children, and that Einstein, "speak[s] for itself."
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Isa
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 21:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
BTW, dude you're a perfect example of an elementary reduced brain, not only that ,but to get pissed off with my english, it shows how well mannered you have become after leaving the cult and that speak for it self ,You said you couldn't even follow my comment ,yet, you replied to it making mention on your''civil rights''.
I wanna see you writing my mather language, can you write or even think on a second language besides English, I doubt it. Could you even express a whole idea in another language the way I do it, I don't think so.that's the problem having a debate with reduced people like you, or going too much down to your level, your kind always get ahold of unimportant details such as grammar mistakes , instead of getting the point.
You make general statement about leaders abusing children,but I ask you, were you fucked by them did they all line up to do you??, if they did so I don't give a shit cause I don't buy from you! from anybody else but you. I have read a lot of articules written by other people here,educated ones, and there's something about them which makes me believe them, but you suck, I wouldn't believe a thing from you, you're the typical unoriginal kind who sigs the same song everybody else sing. do me a favor and sing something new for a change and have a better argument then just picking on grammar mistakes.
Get help, I told you this before, doctors treat your type of illness.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Isa
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 13:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Is that all you can come out with?????????an English grammar lecture????????? fucking looser ! get some help, they are some very good profesionals who see people like you.
Again you missed the point; which is about writting the trueth, not deffending particulars but facts.
Now, did you fallow this time, or you're such a stupid that you can't understant my point, be original don't give me your grammar shit, that's so lame.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Nan
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 18:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
I love this! I don't even need to respond to that. I should just cut and paste what you said again. It speaks for itself, well, speaks is a stretch, with some interpretation. "Writting the trueth?" It were the trueth? Yous spake the trueth? Is trueth more true than truth? Man, this is fun. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. You's one knowing trueth person, and you seys whats you know. You sure does know what is the trueth, cause you's a be knowing. Everyone else should just fallow you. Leads on trueth speaker! We's a be fallowing yous. You's the pied piper of trueth telling. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Isa
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 19:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
You hide your losing self by making fun in the way I write, you're a joke! get a life fucking loser, was that well spelled?? you gave a lame answer once more, but again missed the point.
you're just a fool who has no better argument than pointing out spelling mistakes, is that all you can do??
You know what I think of you, I think you're just a stupid fool who cero in on spelling and grammar mistakes cause with me you have no argument.
You told the other guy:''I'm sick and tired of this family mentality of being positive and feel happy''
What kind of a stupid fool are you???
Don't you know that that's not a ''family thing'' if you wanna be negative and feel bitter about what ever happened to you that's your own problem , but if the other guy or me feel like having fun in life and moving on and get somewhere in life and also help my kids to do the same, by having a positive attitude in life that's my problem,and that's the way i think and a lot of ppl who didn't even grow up in the cult.
You talk b-shit, you are a b- shiter,you wrote something but said NOTHING, was that well spelled, did you follow this time?, STUPID FOOL!! did i spell that well???eager to hear back from you.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Nan
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 23:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dude, how does one "cero in"?
No, please go about your merry little ignorant way "having fun in life." Don't let me or anyone else who doesn't get your "trueth" speak, stop you.
With you I have no argument? Oh, I'm hurt. Cause the respect of insignificant little Ebonics speakers like yourself is so important to me. Puleeeeaaassseee, don't let me stop your "trueth" speaking. Carry on, Einstein! Enlighten us all! Or should I say, inliten us all, so you'll get it. And do tell us all the missed point. I wait with baited breath.
No one is trying to lose themselves by making fun “in” the way you write. Although, one could easily get lost in your writing, if one wants to generously term what you do with a keyboard, writing. I think you meant making fun OF the way you write.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Nan
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 23:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear Isa ben waiten,
Dude, take some advice. Resist the urge to tell others what they need. And thanks for trying out for Mr. Bi-polar Personality, but this website is not big enough for you and your paranoia. If any of your future comments contain anything resembling a point, then feel free to try out for the team of the literate again.
Best of luck to ya! May I suggest Hooked on Phonics. I think they have an easy payment plan which would suit your ambitious little self like a hand and glove.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Isa
Wednesday, March 26, 2003, 10:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'll do the following , nan,since I have better things to do with my successful, positive and happy life than getting in here to answer to such an elementary, reduced, unhappy, negative person like you who has no real argument with me, I'll just leave you talking to your self.
You know what's our difference, to me you are a joke, a spelling practice time. I been getting in here just to see what's your next lame answer, but for you this site is your life.Get some help fucking loser.
''Dude,take some advise Resist the urge to''... give lame answers and get a life, starting by getting medical help.
To me you were''time to practise my spelling'' now that you have bored me there's no need to keep wasting my precious time cya in the next life!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From You did...me too
Monday, March 24, 2003, 22:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
That is quite a statement there! Wonder where u lived. I lived with Juan for many years in different teen homes where we were never told to take off our bras. Most young teen girls as we were didn't need or want to wear them, but soon did to avoid looking like "throw'm over your shoulder" older women. Hard labor??? Oh you were in some kind of camp, these statements are exaggerated and again support the theory that alot on this site is made up and lies. Stick to facts. Sorry if you felt molested I never was witness to that. By the way most girls looked for attention got it, liked it and bragged about it. Not to say he is perfect maybe it made some feel uncomfortable but I think that is thinking in retrospect and not the way one felt at the time.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Gag and Wretch
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 01:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
You did.. wrote: "..most girls looked for attention got it, liked it and bragged about it"
This is a typical, tired old ploy. Seriously, I thought we heard the last of that with "Flirty Little Teens Beware". This is just another attempt to blame teenagers for behaving the way you DEMANDED they behave.
I witnessed a number of men, (Especially that SOB "Josiah") use that excuse whenever they got caught with their hands in some 14 year olds shirt. "The woman gave me, and I did eat.."
Men like Juan and Jo were in charge of the group, (I have nothing against his daughters) they were responsible for EVERYTHING that happened, it doesn't matter if that little teen "wanted it", he was the adult, he is responsible for his actions. END OF STORY!!! If he did abuse a teen in his care, then he needs to answer for it, regardless of her level of involvment. He is the Adult.
If you disagree, then try to stand in front of the average judge or jury and convince them that it was her fault---HA!!! (reply to this comment) |
| | From Nan Gag Fan
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 01:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
What he said!
The term is consent, which a court does not recognize from a minor. "The child made me do it. The child wanted it." You might as well claim the devil made you do it. It would be a more successful argument, one of insanity. Because consent of the minor is no defense. It is a strict liability offense; therefore, there is no excuse or defense, not even mistaken age, much less "she wanted it." I think some redneck gang rapists claimed the same in the case upon which "The Accused" is based.(reply to this comment) |
| | From From one who suffered
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 12:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
When I was 14 I had a huge crush on my home Shepherd, we had just arrived from another country where they were incredibly strict and he was really nice to me. It didn't ocurr to me that we should take it any further but he did. I wasn't ready for a full-on relationship with an adult, I was only a kid, and he took advantage of my crush to have sex with me. I was under huge pressure, yet had you asked me at the time I would've said that I was 100% willing, I felt grown up and in control, but I wasn't. I really wasn't... (reply to this comment) |
| | From
Monday, March 24, 2003, 22:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Not the way one felt at the time"? Speak for yourself.
Moreover, if you were a child in The Family, even if you feel you didn't mind it then, that kind of thing is even more unethical because done to powerless people trained thoroughly to submit and go along. I am so grateful for my non-exer friends (and the exers who do see how twisted that stuff was, unlike you, it seems).
As for hard labor, that's what I did most of my days since the age of 12 in The Family. You must have been in some kind of retreat.
You claim "a lot on this site is made up and lies." Your kind of Denial strikes me as precisely that! (reply to this comment) |
| | From to set the record straight
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 09:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
I just want to clarify that I agree that the perverted old men who took advantage of any speck of power to lord over, demand or justify their fondling of, flirting with or any act unbecoming of an adult is completely unjustifiable. I was witness and targeted many a time, what I was refering to hear was the acusation that Juan forced girls to work with out bras which is untrue. And when you mix truth with lies it sheds doubt on your whole statement. I am not saying he didn't fondle the girls at times, which was wrong and unnessesary especially due to his position. But one thing is not linked to the other.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Gimme a Break
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 12:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
For you to be able to say that it was "untrue," you would have had to have been there. One problem when it comes to people recounting experiences in the Family is that there were tons of 'homes' in many countries. Were you tagging along with Juan on all his visits to homes and seeing what he did?
Were you at the Mexico TTC by any chance? If you were, and if you were a female "teen," you shouldn't be so doubtful about the bra issue. At the Mexico TTC we were given sarongs, basically, a rectangle of cloth from under your armpits to above your knees, that attached at the top in front (maybe a bit off to one side). No way to wear a bra with that. They were the most vulnerability-producing clothes to wear. I hated wearing them but was forced to in order to be truly "revolutionary." (reply to this comment) |
| | From Puff
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 16:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
The sarongs were definetly not my choice before or now and yes it is not bra clothing, nevertheless what does that have to do specifically with Juan. That is a practise that Berg taught not changing from the hippy days. But that did change over time, I did live with Juan and surely I didn't travel with him all over but his attitude was not to enforce upon us to not wear bras.. remember we are debating that. I think enough is said about the subject we all agree that those were not the best time of our lives, TG at least for me I didn't feel this horrible oppression. I am sure that Juan and others regret being led so blindly by Berg and since have gone to opposite extremes. I stand by my word that it is untrue that it was an enforced rule.
Who are u by the way? Maybe we know eachother well and could laugh about the old days, seems we were in similar situations.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From bintoro
Monday, March 24, 2003, 20:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Agreed, Speaking out is great. I was referring to allegations that are being made about Mikol and others who were innocent bystanders. Yes, speak out-but don't just b..ch about how Miki's daddy had more money than my daddy and she had nicer clothes and on and on. Kind of sickening in my opinion. I feel bad for many young people in TF and out that their parents don't see to it that their kids have proper dental care and clothes etc. Seems to happen a lot in TF. Maybe some peoples parents are more "spiritual" and "heavenly minded" and they think they don't need credit cards and clothes to make them happy. I think a lot of people in TF fall under that category, and seems many made the mistake of trying to force force that same belief on their children. I'm amazed sometimes at what contempt some people in or out of TF have for material possessions, their teeth, the care of their car, their yard, the cleanliness of their house, the way their kids dress, etc. Blame Juan if you want, but it might be safer for some of us to blame our parents for not doing anything. In any organization, company, band, etc. the most powerful, hardest working, talented and competent will often rise to the top in no time while the laid back will drift downwards. That's just life and it's our choice where we end up. It never ceases to amaze me how little some people seem to be happy accomplishing in their lives. Again, my point was, sure get it out, but make sure you are bashing in the right direction. Mikol is not the enemy here,and neither am I. (reply to this comment) |
| | From wildirishrose
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 08:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
What is wrong with you? The point being made here is that there were so many political double standards in TF, that there was always a very definite "haves" and "have-nots" line drawn, and the leadership was almost always on the "haves" side, or else the families with a huge amount of monthly "support." They were always treated differently, better, and them and their kids always had what others did not. It often had NOTHING to do with the fact that my parents were too "heavenly-minded" or "spiritual", but simply because they had to live on the side of the line labelled "Have-nots" because they were not leadership nor did they have monthly support pouring in.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Nan
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 01:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
Bin, you're peddling a bunch of crap! I can personally cite you my resume that would put you and a whole cult of people like you to shame. I have success, money, education and professional accomplishment to spare. But, it didn't come easy. It was ten times harder because of that damn cult and its leadership. So, don't come here with your damn high and mighty crap and start telling anyone you're amazed at "how little some people seem to be happy accomplishing in their lives." It's because many of us, if not all, revolted against that damn cult and everything it taught that we are where we are today. Don't make those of us who are more successful than you think start pulling out our resumes. Further, I know it's not nice, but you've pissed me off, you should, at least, learn to f'ing spell before you start accusing anyone of being lazy or accomplishing nothing.
Also, that damn Juan is directly responsible for stopping the dental and health care of the children in the Mexico area in 1989/1990. He came and said that dental work was "a waste of the Lord's time and money." It was ordered that those of us whose parents had paid for our dental work have our braces or bridgework removed and cease treatment. It cost my parents thousands that they invested in their children's teeth. I later paid more than $20,000 for maxio-facial surgery, dental work and orthodontic treatment to have the damage to my teeth corrected. That is just dental work. I won’t even begin to mention all the children who never received necessary medical treatment. I know one woman who now cannot have children because the combo in which she lived refused to take her to hospital in time. Just so happened the combo was in South America, which last time I checked was under Juan’s control. Juan was also a sadistic, dirty old man. He came to the Guadalajara teen Combo around 89-90 and told us that if anyone broke any rules or got out of line, the teen girls were going to have to pull down their underwear and be spanked. We were 13-17 years old. Your term “sickening” seems much more appropriate for him, than for the grieved victims, and who are you to regulate the appropriate topics on which one may voice their opinions? What he ordered was clear sexual abuse, and he said he was told this directly from “the folks.” Oh, but he was nice to you. Well, that changes everything. Since Bin thinks Juan’s nice, then he must be. And nice is the criteria by which we all make judgement. Of course! Thanks for clearing that up for us. Praise God!!! I feel so positive all of a sudden.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Isa
Sunday, March 23, 2003, 23:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
Interesting point, and good post!
Just for the record; the opinions on literature, latest news or even some of the articules which have expressed a real heart cry from those who in some way were wronged I don't really mind or won't call them liers cause is not my place, and won't ''categorize'' this site due to those articules, and you might be right about that.But is the stupidity or things written that one knows aren't true about people which makes you wonder whether you'll be the next one or just shows how some people aren't really responsible when it comes to write things, it's always; ''well, i have heard...'' or ''someone told me...'' en fin... enough of this and thanks again!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From bintoro
Monday, March 24, 2003, 20:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm sorry that you find me so annoying. I was only speaking my opinion. I just don't see what we have to gain by making enemies amongst ourselves by putting each other down. The tabloid side of this site is all very interesting and I enjoy the batter, but at least throw something at me that I can respond too other than annoying and ugh. What is it you don't like? That I'm a gentleman? That I don't like to see people distort the facts and see people get hurt and s..t thrown at them that they had nothing to do with and that is tainted by the way that certain individuals interpreted the situation? Let's all pounce on me now for trying to do something decent. Sorry that I was born a few years before most of you. Does that make me the enemy? (reply to this comment) |
| | From A former SGA
Monday, March 24, 2003, 22:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
I say that u make your points quite well and it is refreshing to hear a well rounded opinion. It is sad that unless one is bashing, arguing or agreeing on the negative they feel another is out of place. I thought all were welcome on this site, and since we are all just giving our own opinion, all such opinions should be welcome and in this case I agree with bin no matter what age group he is in since they no longer exist in out non cult state.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Vicky
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 06:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear SGA, I think you need to try to understand that for some of the people on this site anger and rather extreme rhetoric is part of the therapy that they need in order to make sense of themselves and their upbringing. I've only been on this site a couple of months and I must confess that at first I was slightly shocked by the strong language and so on, mainly because I was quite happy in TF and never had anything awful happen to me at all so I don't feel the degree of anger that many that post here do. But I decided early on that I would have to be willing to let people vent their frustrations in any way that they want without getting defensive and coming down on them - I feel that I have no right to judge and if I don't agree with some of the more severe comments I just take it with a grain of salt. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From me to cholo
Sunday, March 16, 2003, 17:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
Cholo; I think you're a bit wrong here, when I was in Lima Juan was a very giving person, practicly all the nice cars we the homes there had was only due to his nice sharing attitute. I know the guy's not perfect I've heard not nice stories about him but it's just that stories.I personaly don't believe he would go around using the missionaries money to give it to his family.
But if you ask me I know of people who weren't nesesary ''leaders''in the fam but just home sheapher who did use the homes money for their own interest treated people who were supporting them and their kids,very bad, would make people do all the servil tasks of the home but they couldn't even wash their own plate cause they had to go and ''pray'' and plan every ones lives for next day.
Don't you remember Pablo and Perla, they were a joke the only time I saw that guy selling videos was after the charter when no one wanned to live with them and he had to move to chile right b4 getting exom.THERE WERE LOTS OF THOSE people in the fam, not just leaders but funky home sheaphers who took adventage of a lot of stupids who would put up with this.
So cholo, just to be fare here with Juan he's one guy who has no need to ''steal'' the family money.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From highonhigh
Saturday, March 15, 2003, 19:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Juan always had plenty of money of his own. He was a rich dude in Peru & he was top leadership. The problem is tha othe people tha also came from rich families put TF firs tby forsaking all. My dad was one of those that was always forsaking all & we usually just got what everyone else did the provisioning, all his money went somewhere else. By the way Mikol was in our home in Colombia when I was just a little kid so I don´t remember if she had a credit card, I was only 7back then.TG my whole family is out. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From followthegravytrain
Tuesday, March 04, 2003, 05:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is so true, within the Family's little "morale" structure there is a huge amount of actual corruption going on, for instance in SA my dad was involved in a very "fruitful" car business, he had no need to go out witnessing as he made more than enough money from the business.
We were one of the highest tithing homes in the city, time and time again I saw us get special treatment when it came in inter-home disputes, I even saw my dad giving "cash gifts" when the VS's came around for small favours.
Just like any other organization he who gives the most cash gets the best treatment.
It is always made me laugh how these people consider themselves to be on this "morale high ground" when they are simply just another cartel, constantly fighting over territory and contacts.
As I said before we must find a way to get them on tax evasion, like the German government did to the Sciencetoligists.
Beany(reply to this comment) |
| | From Mir
Monday, March 24, 2003, 08:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
hum... TF were all over my dad like a rash until his money ran out, after that they couldn't give a rats backside what happened to him or us. My family was given special privileges as my grandfather was a "King" and could get them into all kinds of "influential" places in SA. My parent's got to live alone with one chosen childcare worker (who ended up abusing my sister) and even sent us to school for a few years. When my granddad and grandma died (late 70's-early'80s) , they fell on us like freaking vultures, fleeced my dad of his inheritance and left us with bugger all. Mind you, my dad was a bit daft... He could've just left and kept the money, but he didn't. I was in this home once in the UK when this couple, Mark and Anna, (he was Australian and she was Swedish I think...) just up and left. I woke up one morning and discovered that all their stuff was gone including their camper van! LOL! The home I lived in had about 50 people in it, and everybody knew that this couple kept on having to go out to sort our "business" because one of them had just inherited a large amount of cash. The area and home shepherds were rubbing their hands in glee and couldn't wait to get their grubby hands on it, and then POOF! They disappeared! Good for them I say!!! (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from Hit'm Where It Hurts
Tuesday, September 10, 2002 - 06:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
I know they make their money (In the US) by begging at large shopping malls and department stores. 10% of their income goes to it's leaders. Stop the individual homes from making any and the top will suffer.
Start writing letters to management complaining about the illigitamate charitable organizations like "The Family" they are letting pan handle in front of their stores. I suggest everyone does the same in their local area.
(reply to this comment)
| From conan
Monday, March 17, 2003, 11:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
You're pretty fucking stupid whoever you are. Were you ever in the Family?? I hope for your sake that you weren't but if you were than you should realise that 'where god alfuckingmighty closes one door, he opens another'. In other words, dipshit, how the fuck can you stop the homes from begging as you so succintly put it. They'll just pop up somewhere else like cockroaches. Your hairbrained idea didn't even come close to answering the question posted by Alf. Yes, the family has money. And by the way people, why do you think interpol was looking for Berg?? For tax evasion. It wasn't the CAN. Interpol wanted Berg cause they knew he had a lot of money in off-shore accounts which will not turn up on your tax returns because it's not claimed. In fact it's not on paper anywhere that you earned it so it doesn't legally exist. They knew he had it maybe because of CAN but they failed to lock him up.
For example, I am in college on Federal Aid. I file taxes. My dad, being a cultist, does not. I needed him to sign my papers to get my preliminary approval for the financial aid. I got approved because records showed that while my dad did have ten kids...he never filed taxes once in his life. Hence he was legally too fucking poor to send my sorry ass to school. If he was in the upper echelon of WS, he would more than likely be able to afford it. Not that he would give me the money but he would be able to.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from False Alarm
Monday, September 09, 2002 - 14:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
If I had addresses I'd set off a few smoke bombs in their basements at 3am then call the fire department and police.
Talk about raids without warrants. The firefighters and police would get a nice tour of the place before they found just smoke.
I'm not talking about real fires here. Just a simple smoke bomb.
email me some addresses: smokebomb@mad.scientist.com
Or post them here.
(reply to this comment)
| from Sharon
Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 10:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Could you also send it to mothhater@hotmail.com
Greatly appreciated
(reply to this comment)
| from Craven de Kere
Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 00:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Everyone has a right to exist, they don't have a right to abuse.
There are plans in the works that involve things that won't be discussed here.
I just want to let you know that people ARE working on it.
It's the only thing I want in my life.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | From Cultinvator
Tuesday, March 25, 2003, 00:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
I got the pw to the site, but the GNs are still only downloadable by PGP keys... need those too! only a matter of time. (at least the GNs that have the really dumb irrational shit that would make them look like the fruitloops they are) All this key bull is so general that they might as well say, we are part of a group that has keys to a real lock that opens doors to a real place that leads to a different state of mind than before...(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from chesco
Monday, June 03, 2002 - 12:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
killing the two dumbasses in my book is the best thing that could happen.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Homo Boy
Monday, April 22, 2002 - 17:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
That sounds like some kind of homo thing!
(reply to this comment)
| from Jules
Monday, April 01, 2002 - 19:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Personally I have no interest in "destroying the Family". As an organization they have every right to exist. Lots of people have strange beliefs, and freedom of religion is their right. What I personally would like to see would be the people responsible for illegal, harmful actions take accountability for what they did. I think though that most of all, "living well is the best revenge".
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | From Ricky
Saturday, May 18, 2002, 01:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
The Family has absolutely NO right to exist! Granted, in the beginning, they did. But they renounced that right as soon as they started abusing children, prostituting their women, and using their twisted and perverted interpretation of the Bible to enslave the minds and souls of good people. About the only "rights" I would accord to 1st generation Family cultists is the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Conqueror of Uranus
Tuesday, December 10, 2002, 01:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sorry Ricky, the Family reserves every right to exist. I'm in Japan so I'm not sure about the rest of the world. But in Japan the Aum Shinrikyo, who commited murder, money embezzelment, tax evasion, firearms manufacturing, and a terrorist nerve gas attack are still publicly operating under the new name Aleph. Schools are banned by law from discriminating against Aum members, and every court case held to prevent Aum members from building new operational centres has failed.
Granted, they have this right bcause they; handed over the guilty individuals, allow authorities to freely enter and search the premises of all Aum centres, renounced controversial pratices such as; mind control, extreme meditation, etc.... (reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Sunday, June 09, 2002, 18:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree that a group that is entrenched in illegal activity has no right to exist. The issue here is that the Family has successfully managed to sidestep the entire topic of the violation of basic human rights of children in the Family whenever this issue has been brought into the public arena by crying "religious persecution". The religious lobby in countries such as the US is powerful and well established, and as we all know, through well packaged presentations, the Family has wormed it's way into affiliation with these people.
My personal opinion is that a consistent focus on the actual issue (people who commit crimes against children must be held accountable for their actions) is the key to enuring that justice is served. We are the good guys here, and the law, fate and karma is on our side. If people are held accountable for their actions, I think the issue of the Family's existence will take care of itself. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Vicky
Thursday, March 13, 2003, 14:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree with you.
Although I have some issues with the fam. my parents are happy and doing something that they feel makes a difference (And may I add that they ARE doing something concrete, however small a project it is - At least they aren't living the missionary life in name only) and i feel that I have to respect their choice of beliefs and the way they live their lives.
There are plenty of sweet, simple and decent people living in the grassroots of TF and they are the only ones who would be hurt by any sort of quick-fix "solutions" that aren't thought through very carefully.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From conan
Monday, March 17, 2003, 11:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
Whatever the fuck ever.
The Family has no right to exist. The individuals who comprise this collective group do. Let them all worship god and his rod if they all so desire. But, if we could effectively disband the group to the point where there is no longer a central 'government' or a code of rules, I think we'd all be happy with that. I have problems with what my parents do, yes. But I wouldn't care as much if they did the same shit without the fanatical and deluded beliefs and customs they adhere to. You follow? That is how I think the Family needs to be destroyed. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From conan
Tuesday, March 18, 2003, 14:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
If kelly and zerby were neutralized, while there is a supposed contingency plan in place, the group would fall apart. I'm sure they have enough "word" stored away with new 'revelations' and shit to continue to periodically send out if something like that were to happen but...seriously. if k&z were gone, it would only be a short time b4 the rest of the family caves. (reply to this comment) |
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