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Getting On : Faith
Reach out and touch Set | from Fish - Friday, December 10, 2004
accessed 1689 times “Hear me, Lord of the stars,
For thee have I worshiped ever
With stains and sorrows and scars,
With joyful, joyful endeavor.
Hear me, O lilywhite goat
Crisp as a thicket of thorns,
With a collar of gold for thy throat,
A scarlet bow for thy horns.”
All this debate about Christianity vs. Satanism has me somewhat puzzled. If one is to think deeply about any of this one would see that they are essentially the same thing. Worshiping the stain merely deifies the cloth, while worshiping the cloth will but draw attention to the stain. In the traditional sense (Judea-Christian), the devil is equated with evil, while “god” is good. He most obvious flaw in this theophany to me is the fact that not only are “good” and “evil” highly subjective, they are also by nature HUMAN.
As the Bible clearly states, “God is not a man” it then follows “can a man judge God?”
No of course he can't. It follows then that the Judea-Christian God is neither good nor evil, not by human standards at least. Perhaps God was “good” to make man while the serpent was also “good” to grant him sentience.
However, all of this is neither here nor there, as I am currently of the opinion that they are all one. The devil is the personification of earthly power, just as God is the epitome of universal power. Just two poles of the magnet, both the same, yet not. Every culture has had its “devil”, however in most cases he was just another force of nature. Set vs. Osiris is a good example. Osiris was the civilizer and ruler of the dead, while Set was the desert storm, and ruler of the beasts. Same old Solar vs. Phallic. The Egyptians worshiped them both. To quote Crowley “All the double phenomenon are only two ways of looking at a single phenomena; and that single phenomena is peace.”
The reason I even bother to bring this thelemic/zen rhetoric up is that frankly, extremists irritate me. On the one side we have the righteous Solars, with they’re “I’m so enlightened” attitude, and on the other we have the even worse Phallisits (sounds like and STD), who think they’re “bad”. It’s very well and all to be a Satanist, but there’s no reason to run around wearing pentagram bling-blings, saying Ave Satanis, hoping to impress someone. While were on the subject there’s no call for supposed “Christians” to try to force their ideas on others. If they are right we will all know soon enough. Furthermore, there’s nothing more nauseating then an argument based on a few fragments of some set card.
Personally I don’t believe in much of anything, but I try to “hear with an eager heart, and think with an open mind”. I find this to be a wise attitude given the available facts. (Or lack of them) So the point to this lengthy doggerel is that you should all be more like me. Yep, that’s it! |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Baxter
Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 05:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
I still ain't figured out who you are, but wtf, I imagine you were as entertaining when I knew you as you are now. I'm getting the impression that the above prose is the result of long mental deliberation. By this I do not mean to patronise or mock you, it's all very well- reasoned logical stuff; I'm just wondering if you've been doing any reading between your introspections, and if so, what you were reading.
Cheers. Keeping reaching for the void, or whatever.
(reply to this comment)
| from shikaka
Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 21:04
  (Agree/Disagree?)
God is a wanker, and Christians are cum dumpsters.
I'll be here all night.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | from Jonnyboy
Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 04:52
 (Agree/Disagree?)
God is a Spirit & that Spirit is only GOOD! That great good Spirit created other Spiritual beings like the devil & the other angels. They were created good, but with the freedom of choice!
They rebelled against the Great GOOD Spirit, their Maker, & became evil, but retaining the powers & abilities with which they were created (The gifts & callings of God are without repentance), & began using them to pollute & corrupt all they could from the goodness of God, like a Virus corrupting good computer files, & good hard-disk space.
But before God created any of them He had created the TRUTH (Jesus, the beginning of the creation of God) & within that truth He stored the entire DNA sequence for the restoration to the harmony of good of all creation, or at least all that would CHOOSE to be saved & follow the Truth...& has been working to restore (or save) all things since that time!
The work is almost done, but He has just a little way to go (about a thousand years of Millennium) till ALL things are COMPLETELY restored & "All things are made anew"! Rev. 22
That's at least how I see it...or ONE of the ways I see it! ;-)
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | |  From Cultinvator
Monday, December 27, 2004, 01:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
That is the linear Christian view... I've heard it so many times, he represents it as most traditional christians do. But there's nothing revealing about it.
There is shadow and light, and there will never be only one or the other... they coexist and they complement each other. Without pain there is no pleasure, and each has it's own market. When I hear christains gab about Jesus bringing everlasting salvation it makes me want to puke, when I hear bitter satanists shuving crucifixes up their asses to try to abase christianity I laugh. But I don't take any of them seriously really. Jesus was an innovator, and so was Anton Lavey in his own way (Founder of the Church of Satan) I think that after a while we figure out different ways of reaching for the light and darkness... we don't usually eat people that much these days, or stone those who oppose us for the most part... we evolve and find sophisticated ways of pretending to be good and evil. When it comes down to it, evil is mostly a sin of ignorance and as long as there are dumb asses in the world people are going to be evil.
Good is also a tricky word... it changes in some ways with culture and subjective bias. What's good for the lion is bad for the lamb. But evolutioin might make it possible for them to become both vegetarian at some point, then the plants still hurt... and then what? Everything hurts something.... Sacrifice is the seed of change.
Sacrifice plants so that we may live.... try to sacrifice the least to get the highest benefit... ? I don't fucking know.
I just think christianity came out because it was a political option mature for it's day... a crutch or an inspiration... that's all in how one behaves. A faith is merely behaviour with an excuse. Satanism, it's just the rebellion of people who are tired of being told that their sexual urges and animal primal emotions are the souce of problems in this world, the kid in the classroom that makes fun of the teacher. The teacher is the tradition of the past... the student is the teacher of the future... Do they have a serious following. I doubt it... their baser nature got the best of them with excessive drugs, sex, and being rebellious just to be rebellious... I still find them more entertaining than the average christian.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Marc
Saturday, December 25, 2004, 10:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jonnyboy: I am going to assume you are either in the group or have _just_ left. My assumption is based on a simple observation: Your usage of ampersands ("&") instead of "and" throughout your post.
An ampersand should _rarely_ be used in logos or headlines but _never_ in text. That was Berg's silly "rule"; he was trying to save "space and money" in his writings.
Grab a book, any book (not published by the group), and try to find a single ampersand in the text. I dare you too!
PS: I understand that this is not a big deal (along with the over-usage of "Ha!" and abbreviations), but it just reminds me so much of the group's writings that I had to write something.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From geo
Saturday, December 25, 2004, 08:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah evil must have just created itself cus theres no way god would have created it...
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (Is 45:7)
One thing the bible is big on is the fact that god created everything, you'll see that over and over in the bible. It even says he created the wicked for Judgment. But one thing I've never seen in the bible is where it says we have free will, christians talk about that all the time but theres certainly no reference to it in the bible.
I guess theres no such thing as a smart christian but do you all have to be so fucking ignorant. If youre going to base your faith on the bible at least know what the hell it says.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Jonnyboy
Saturday, December 25, 2004, 09:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sorry, I guess I musta' pushed the wrong key & posted it before I was finsihed..sorry 'bout that!
I started to just say Hi, & get to know you a bit so we don't have to get this discussion off on a nasty note!
You're right...that scripture does say that the Lord creates evil & in a sense He does!
God is a many splendoured thing. He is love, He is also a consuming fire! He does make evil, because in the state that the world exists now sometimes evil is necessary...until such a time that all things ARE made anew! But Because He is in ultimate control he limits it, & mixes it with generous portions of His grace! "Where iniquity does abound, grace does much more abound!"
But that verse is speaking of evil in the abstract sense, the choice to do evil rests ultimately with us, & being the intelligent person you obviously are I'm sure you don't need a Bible scripture to prove to you we all have free choice...all you need there is a mirror & little common sense! ;-) But if you want a scripture that proves we do have choice all you have to do is read Genesis & the story of the fall of man & that proves that despite what God had told them they CHOSE otherwise...God didn't stop or prevent them from doing it...& that's how sin or evil (which already existed in the abstract sense due to the fall of Lucifer) came into the perfect world that God had created. God has created the material world in a large effect to reflect the Spiritual, even tho' we may not always understand it all!
Another specific scripture (if you want an exact referance to freedom of choice) is in Isaiah 1:18:
"Come now, let us reason together saith the Lord. Though your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow; Though they be red like Crimson, they shall be as wool."
Which very clearly shows that the Lord is willing to reason with us to try to get us to follow Him & His ways, which are always the best & are designed with our good in mind, & wants to make things easy for us to obey & even forgive us for past mistakes & sins in an effort to save us!
That's the kind of loving God I believe in & tho' He may create evil, it's all in the end ultimately for the good!(reply to this comment) |
| | From Nick
Thursday, January 06, 2005, 09:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Gezuz Crist! Is this pervert back again? I thought he was banned from this site?
OK, well just for the benefit of all that don’t know this nutter, I will explain why his posts come across so fucking demented.
For a start Jonathan is clinically insane. Not just in a metaphorical sense, but literally. He has been in and out of mental institutions and on medication since the cult kicked him out for his weird ranting which he claimed were prophecies.
Then we have his continual vocal support of child abuse and child rape and his support of the cults abusive ways. Dismissing all accounts of abuse. For example, and I know some of you remember this, there was a person writing about how she was sexually abused at 12 years of age. Jonathan smugly responded with a comment about how if these girls were really honest with themselves they would admit that they actually enjoyed it and it was good for them.
That probably explains why he was arrested and charged with abusing his own son a few years back. His X wife finally had enough of him beating and abusing his kid, (He probably did it while shouting weird bible verse and prophesies at the poor kid) and she called the cops on him. To bad he got off the hook on that one, he would have gotten to be somones bitch and then we could have told him that if he was really honest with himself he would admit that he actually enjoyed it.
OK, then I don’t even know where to start about his many many marriage proposals to just about every women on this site that gave him the time of day even tho he never met the women. I don’t want to name the names of these women, but they can confirm this if they feel the need. There was one woman on this site that he wrote about 30 or 40 of these long love letters to, without getting any response back to him at all. Each new email would come as if it was a reply to the one that she sent back to him even though she sent none. It was like he was having a conversation all in his head. I read these emails and they were just weird!
Then there was the poor girl in the UK that made the huge mistake of letting him meet her with ought really knowing him and man was she stalked! He would come at all hrs of the day and night to her flat even after being physically kicked out by her flatmates. Come down to her work to give her unsolicited money because “the lord told him she needed it more than him” (OK, I admit free money ant that bad a thing.)
Well I could go on and on, but I need to get back to work, but I just thought I would let my mean and hateful side come out and expose this child abusing pervert for what he is.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Gothsmack
Tuesday, January 04, 2005, 20:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Heres a tribute I've dedicated to you, JF.
(Sung to the tune of "We will rock you!")
(intro...crowd cheers, claps and stomps, eagerly waiting for Jules to boot him off the site once again)
VS. 1
Jonny your a boy making big noise
fucking up our site,
just a dirty old man I'd say
you've got cum on your face,
a big disgrace,
posting your shit all over the place.
Ch.
Singing, we will we will rock u!
Vs.2
Jonny your a sad man fat man,
acting like a dork,
gonna be a big pig some day
you'll have blood on your face,
a total nut-case,
Nick, please spray some mace in his face...
Singing....(repeat chorus.)
(sing song as many times as desired)(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Baxter
Thursday, January 06, 2005, 05:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dickhead, either go find yourself a logically defensible argument, or find a website where people will be nice to you and agree with whatever you say.
When either you or one of your Christian fogies comes back with a logical justification for your blind faith, when it is argued in a coherent and sensible manner, I'll stop disputing it, but as long as you keep babbling your assuption-reinforced verbal clutter, don't expect any niceties from me. Whatever else we are, at least we ain't sycophantic. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Fish
Monday, December 27, 2004, 04:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dear Culti, you are quite wrong about that. Kali is the devil. The followers of Shiva believe that ultimate perfection lies in the absence of matter. Shiva does destroy, but that would be more likened to the world being purified by fire then to Satan. You misquoted the thelemic rhyme as well. It goes:
With the wand createth He,
With the cup preserveth He,
With the dagger destroyeth He,
With the coin redeemeth He.
It is believed to refer to the elements and the name of god, not to Hinduism(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Jonnyboy
Saturday, December 25, 2004, 15:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Not meaning to be pedantic, but it's Jonnyboy!
Well, I wasn't exactly "witnessing" as such, but if you want to call it that I suppose you could! I was more giving an opinion on a subject which by definition is abstract, in the sense that we're not discussing solid objects, but abstract theories that can't (or haven't so far) been conclusively proven..at least not in any sort of "scientific" realm...nor can they be...as God is not a Chemical or something that can be completely comprehended with the human understanding!
I was merely taking another stab (like countless thousands & millions before me have) to explain (as I see or perceive & understand them to be) just some of the mysteries that have baffled & puzzled some of the "wisest" men throughout history! And for which the only conclusive explanations for which I believe to be found in the Bible...the Word of God, as He is the only one who completely understands them at all...since He created & runs the whole operation!
I'm sorry that my (admittedly imperfect) attempts to have a stab at it does not meet the approval of such a "wise" sage (yes you may conclude I am being sarcastic here...for indeed I am ;-) as yourself, but to be honest I didn't post it for your approval or to necessarily be found "logical" in your eyes. Nor do I consider that yours is the final authority on which I may test the conclusiveness of my logic. Nor do I concede that you even correctly summarized what I was trying to say! Therefore I cannot accept the inference of your statement that I was "being dumb"!
I therefore leave you to your opinion....(although I'm not sure exactly what it is, as you haven't made an attempt at showing me the veracity of YOUR logic on the subject but have contented yourself with TRYING to debunk mine).....as I'm sure you won't begrudge me mine!
As for where I should go to "be dumb"......I'll go where my discression leads me....as I think you probably should too!
Until we can agree on some subject (I assume you do also indulge in that form of discussion....or is it only unfoundedly knocking down others' opinions that interests you!) I bid you adieu!(reply to this comment) |
| | From geo
Thursday, January 06, 2005, 06:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
You’re trying really hard to sound smart and that’s good for you. I am by no means a grammar expert but here’s a few more pointers to help you with that sounding smart thing: Besides your incorrect usage of ampersands, try not parenthesize every other sentence (comma's work most of the time) A single period at the end of a sentence will do just fine.......... Capitalizing whole words and ending every sentence with an exclamation point doesn’t help add weight to your argument, though it does make you sound like you’re still in 2nd grade and LIKE to YELL all the time!
>>I therefore leave you to your opinion....(although I'm not sure exactly what it is, as you haven't made an attempt at showing me the veracity of YOUR logic on the subject but have contented yourself with TRYING to debunk mine).....as I'm sure you won't begrudge me mine!
Yes your right, I never did attempt to show you the veracity of my logic. I usually try to avoid the subject of logic all together when talking with your kind. Believe it or not, you aren’t the first person who's tried to explain the inanity of their religion to me, from experience I know what a waste of time a discussion with you would be. Usually I try to just ignore these ramblings, like I would anything else I find incredibly ignorant, but occasionally I'll make insulting comments, whichever is easiest.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Cultinvator
Monday, December 27, 2004, 01:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jonnyboy, it's not that we hate you so much (well, I speak for myself) but we just find you very ethnocentric and a bit appaling that you're only looking into your own ass of religion and not really checking out any other options as possible truths. Like most churchgoers who only speak of their bubble of the universe, it seems your philosophically quite inbred and not really looking to any other truths out there. I guess if it makes you happy that the earth is flat, fine be that way, but you might get dissed by those who actually walk out of their flat square of land and find out it is quite round.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Lauren
Sunday, December 26, 2004, 21:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
JF, go be crazy somewhere else.
Stick to your inane ramblings on the yahoo exfamilyyouth group where nobody has to read them. Once you actually begin to comprehend the fact that you are insane -- you know -- like really not all there in the head -- as in medicated -- as in having to take a trip or few to the looney bin -- once you've actually comprehended that, actually begun to understand what it means, then maybe you'll also understand why NOBODY on this site wants to read what you write.
Please get the point: You are a nut case. You have no discretion, you have no point, you don't make sense, you_are_crazy. Take your meds.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Cultinvator
Monday, December 27, 2004, 01:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
You can always expect a salvational christian to be just that, give him a break, he's just like we all were before we jumped out of our fishbowl. One day hopefully sooner than later he'll find out that the millenium isn't here yet, and that the antichrist is just a fear tactic to keep people tithing so that the all rich god, who owns the universe but somehow nees a group of dummasses to support a crazy prophet's dream, can keep his ever changing face from dissapearing in another dead god mythology.
(reply to this comment) |
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