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Getting On : Lovers
Les Rêves D'Amour | from Anthony - Saturday, November 09, 2002
accessed 2463 times The title is french for "Dreams Of Love", and I know I'm going to asked who it is addressed to. He was the one, the man of your dreams; you had just left the cult and felt like a terd out of the toilet. He was attracted to you because you had an innocence that so many young women have when leaving the sheltering and ignorant isolation of religious cults. Of course, he didn’t know this right away, in fact, at first he mistook your sweetness as a ploy to empty his wallet; yes, he thought you were a prostitute or the like. But that all changed once he got to know you and hear your story, now he understood what made you seem different than all the other women he had known and still knows. More importantly, he accepted you for who you were, which meant the world to you. Of course, later, during heated arguments he would use your upbringing against you, put in your place, cut you down, way down, but that was later and this was then. You had never been given this much gratifying attention prior to meeting him – it seemed to be happening so fast, like a fairy-tell, cupid’s spell. You were like the typical corn-on-the-cob farm bitch from Kansas who moved to the big city and became an instant celebrity, prettier than a fantasy, but dumb as, well, a dumbass, to put it mildly. You still felt inadequate and insanely insecure, but he made these horrendously horrible feelings disappear like a rabid rabbit into the hat of nevermore, gone, quiet away.
What was it about him that attracted you? He was average looking, or maybe better, moderately successful, sure he was old enough to be your father – oh, was that it? Was his age reassuring? His maturity? Maybe subconsciously he filled the voided holes your father failed too, (no sexual innuendo implied here). Now, you had dated ex-COG boys of your own age group, but they were dealing with ex-cult issues and internal turmoil just as you were, struggling to find themselves, many were broke losers, and you decided, quiet correctly, that it probably would be better not to continue doing so, better date someone with a different background. So what went frightfully wrong? Why is he no longer your knight in shining armor, but more like the night in blinding terror? He may or may not have done anything physically or emotionally harmful to you, but that’s almost beside the point because what we need to understand is where you were emotionally when you met him and where you are presently. Merde à la fin!
It’s been a few years since you left the cult, good choice, and now you are worldlier, no longer ghastly gullible, stupidly simple, and disconcertingly dependent on him. Sure, you enjoy the occasional corn-on-the-cob, especially when he’s out of town on business and you just can’t remember where you hid your dildo, (it’s hard to take the country out of…blah, blah, blah). But you’re at totally different place in your life now, and he’s just a bad habit you confuse as love, you don’t need him the way you used too, and you see that he really isn’t that great of guy, in all honesty. I mean, after all, he did use you for his gratification, that sweet and rare innocence, his greedy hands and eyes all over you, but I guess the relationship was symbiotic; however, it turned pathetically parasitic, now only one of you in feeding off the other, but which one is it? It’s hard to make the move and leave him because you’ve invested so much time with him, you don’t hate him, far from it, but you don’t love him either, at least not as you once thought you did and would always. And the kids, oh the kids, that’s a whole other issues. I hope you both don’t use your children as human yo-yos to get back at each other, back and forth, south and north, as that would really suck a pig’s tit. It would constitute emotional cannibalism. The residents in your head disagree on the course of action you should strategically pursue; it’s all so confusing. You didn’t get the love you needed from the people who where supposed to be your “family”, and you sure as shame aren’t getting it here either. Besides, when he’s about to go over the hill and kick the bucket, you will be the age he is now, now that’s a funny thought.
“So, what the solution Anthony?” “What should I do?” LOL, who said there was/is a solution??! There’s just life and death, love and hate. It’s impossible to truly love without hating, for in order to truly love someone or something, something or someone must be hated in equal measure. To have life there necessarily must be death.
She said she it's fine being a queen
And if she had her way
She would kill the old king
‘Cuz he’s forgotten how to play
Regards,
Anthony
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from gfk_au
Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 02:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is exactly the story of my first relationship out of TF. My ex would always ask why i was so different. One nite i made the mistake of telling him.......and i thought that if he was going to love me i wanted him to love all of me including my past. how wrong i was. from that moment on things went downhill. everytime we argued "my cult" came up and he would go on how fucked up i was. blaming everything i experienced as a child as my fault. of course he was just a fool immature person, but it definitely scarred me for further relationships.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Tankard
Monday, November 11, 2002 - 18:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm *totally* pissed, and have *no* idea what your article was about dude (whoever you are, man) but I just want to point out that a) County Antrim whiskey whips the llamma's arse and b) "terd" should be spelt "turd".
Otherwise, r0x0r on! Alice Cooper 0wnZ man!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002 - 16:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
What about you men, do you like older ladies? If yes or no, why and why not?
(reply to this comment)
| | | |  From dave
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
For the record, I like younger ladies. It seems though, older ladies don't seem to require too much from the younger guys and they don't seem to carry too many issues. My opinion is that older ladies are generally greatful (or rather, desperate) to have guy younger than them. Disclaimer: I am not setting myself up as a expert on the issue though. LOL! (reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have to disagree with this statement. I like a guy younger then me every now and then but it’s certainly not because I’m “desperate” in general they’re a bit more lively and open to try new things the can be taught to do things just the way you want and usually will try anything you want. They are not yet set in their ways yet. Plus they have incredible stamina and can keep up better then most older men even ones my own age cause men are at there sexual high at the age 21-25. I will be honest though not always but usually women will go to a younger guy mostly just for play and meaningless sex we don’t usually actually consider having a relationship with them.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Joe H
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
It's not so much that I like older women, I just can't stand the ones my age. Don't get me wrong, they're plenty cute, but after what we've been through we're at least a few years ahead of them, and I really don't want to feel like a parent as they go thru experiences and issues that I dealt with years ago. In addition, older women have more experience, and have less inhibitions and issues about their bodies (for the most part). (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Pharmaboy's back
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 07:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't mean to over generalize, but ex-fam chicks can be some of the most naive girls I've met, & could have avoided most of the hardships they went through if whey wouldn't have been so freaking dumb & proud. You'll meet them some years down the line and they'll be giving themselves airs and acting like smart, streetwise "women". they're not all like that, but most I've met do win the gold medal in stupidity! It takes 'em a few years to realize that having more than one sleeping partner/boyfriend is not "cool". They'll end up being considered the village whore...I stay away from ex-fam girls like the plague.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Bella
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 15:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
PharmaBOY - I wish to opine, however, I cannot figure out exactly what you are saying. Do you mean to state that us "ex-fam chicks" (ohh love that) could have avoided the hardships we went through in TF if we, quote: "wouldn't have been so freaking dumb & proud." OR, do you mean that we could have avoided hardships SINCE leaving TF if we, again quote: "wouldn't have been so freaking dumb & proud."
Please clarify.(reply to this comment) |
| | From pharmaboy
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 04:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, I did over-generalize, for the fun of it and 'cause it's a sensitive topic. I meant after being in the fam.
I never really take myself seriously, and you shouldn't either :-). I could write a book on all the crazy things ex-fam chicks have done/gotten themselves into. Initially I pitied them & tried to help them avoid making utter fools of themselves, but they thought: why take
advice from some fam dude, I'll hang out with the real men of the world. Yes, men that would give you nice colored little pills, screw you, let their friends screw you and you'd think, wow, this is what fun is all about. These people are my friends, we just connected!
I may have left officially a year ago, but I've been living on my own for 10 yrs, going to "system" school & working. Or one chick was riding in my car with me & it had a slight carb problem, chick says: you know, you really shouldn't change gears so much, just keep it on one, it'll drive much better....Their stupidity wasn’t their fault, but hell, at least accept advice from someone who went the same path and you’ll avoid many mistakes…I’m through with playing the good Samaritan, fucking let them learn the hard way! Blaming other people for your problems won’t get you anywhere ( I’m not talking about rape, beatings, etc), you are responsible for your own life & it’s what you make of it. I have met people who you could say had been cheated in life, non-exfam, and they pulled though & refused to let the people that wronged them condition the rest of their life. I also have non-exfam friends that still go on about how difficult their past was & that’s why they can’t make it in life, and it’s a damn bore to be around them. Not all family girls have gone through the same hardships, I’m talking about minor ones, but it’s nice to have everyone feeling for you.
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| | | | | From Bella
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 15:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
JoeH darling please, I'm not an idiot and neither am I dumb nor ignorant. The person I am dealing with here (that would be Pharmaboy in case you weren't sure) certainly is though. Therefore, because he is such an ignoramus, I felt it imperative that I should include the word "quote" prior to his statement so that he is clear that, yes, it really was something coming from his dirty little mouth.
Thanks for looking out for me though smarty-pants. Imagine the horror if I had heard that from one of my PhD Professors of philosophy!!
Oh, and you "stay cool" too. (Note that in your case, I didn't have to reiterate that the statement was indeed, a quote) ;-)(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From DodgyTodger
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 08:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
"our girls"? - that sounds like a Mo quote "son".
Anyway sorry to say this but most ex Fam girls took a while to learn some basic facts about how not to be labeled a slut.
Here are a few obvious points but you'd be surprised how many girls I know got it sooo wrong
1. when a guy offers you food or drink he wants to "sleep" with you.
2. when a guy offers you a job he wants to "sleep" with you.
3. when a guy offers you drugs he's not just cool, that shit is expensive, he's just making it easier for him to "sleep" with (or in this case violently sodomise) you
4. when a guy tells you you could be a model, he's not only terribly sleazy -he also wants to "sleep" with you
In short - there are no angels sent from heaven to help you along, if you get any attention whatsoever from men realize that the motivation is sex so start from there and make them prove otherwise. - unless of course what your after is a hasty shag in which case go for it!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Bella
Monday, November 18, 2002, 02:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Uhh sorry Pharmaboy but I don't exactly know what you mean about me needing to get off my "fucking high-horse."
Naturally, it is a sensitive subject and that is why I asked you to clarify what you meant by "ex-cult chicks" could have avoided their hardships by not being so "freaking dumb and proud." Now that I know that you meant "since leaving TF," I do not have as big a problem with your view.
There are MANY things that I could have avoided by not being so naive when I first left. But, in all fairness I believe that many of us (boys included) have made mistakes simply because of the way that we were raised. How in the world do you expect someone who was raised in a bubble, to instantaneously know what to do with themselves in the "real world?" Interestingly, I was reading my old diary I had kept during my first days and months out of the family, and believe me, I cringed many a time as I remembered some of the decisions I made concerning such things as men, money, sex, drugs, alcohol, work, friends, everything! I would be lying if I claimed that I "knew exactly what to do, the minute I walked out the door." I cringed as I read, however, because I have since learned those things which are both good and bad for my mental, physical, and psychological well being. Ultimately, isn't that what is important? --Not the mistakes that we make when we first left, but the lessons we have learned (and continue to learn), since leaving?(reply to this comment) |
| | From pharmaboy
Monday, November 18, 2002, 06:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's true, Bella, It wasn't anyone's fault for not knowing better. Isn't that exactly what should make you extra careful then, realizing your own ignorance once out? I saw this in quite a few ex-fam young people. Maybe it was my brainwashing in the family, but I have always felt the need to help others, not in a material/financial way, but more by being a no-second-motives friend to people I could help from my own background (junkies, manic-depressives & ex-fam). I know when in 6th grade, first time in school, I wished for someone who would "show me the ropes", because I knew how ignorant in the ways of the world I was. What I just don't get is how of 5 "family girls", all of them preferred the hard way. We'd go partying, use responsibly, avoid shady charaters & situations & just have a good time, not regreting any unwise decisions the next day. But hanging out with another ex-fam just wasn't cool enough for them. The rest is history, and they went through alot of shit they could have avoided. When I'd see them some time later when they'd be moaning on how they were mistreated & all they went through, I saw the need for attention & the need to blame their problems on someone/some thing. Similar to a ranting depressive so eager to tell you his/her issues and how they just might end it all(I was like that). I'm writing this plural, not to generalize, but because their behavior patterns were so similar, apart from different times, places, ages, etc. Situations and people do influence you and your outlook on life, but ultimately YOU decide how your life will turn out: by choosing good friends, a positive outlook on the future & most importantly, realizing that you just don't(and never will) know it all: take advice(I tell myself this regularly). I have a friend that suffers form bipolar disorder and when she starts telling me(for the Nth time!) her lifestory and how her mother and fiancee died in the same 3 months, how she was wronged in the past, I'll tell her simply: you're not getting any sympathy from me, just encouragement when you make progress. Others I know blame their current adiction or habit on their hard past, which is no excuse really, that's just the easy way out. Of course this doesn't mean let Zerby & Co off the hook, but don't enjoy being the victim all the attention that goes along with it.
Thee I go ranting again, I also read rob's thread and the comments on it, and this is my thoughts on that thread as well. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
Don't you think a lot of it has to do with a man's education though? I totally agree with you guys about not being able to relate to men my age, until I started going out and subsequently am about to marry a highly educated man - who is only 2 years my senior. It just seems like an educated man is just a whole lot easier to relate to, regardless of age. There is something about a smart man that is incredibly sexy.
However, if you are just looking for a roll in the hay - then you can just tell the stupid little hottie to shut up and get with it ... or if you are like Anthony, "paint your face and start tossin'" =)(reply to this comment) |
| | from dave
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 13:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dude, this is great. Are you sure that BA was in IT, or was it Literature? lol. You're brilliant bro..
Later,
Dave
(reply to this comment)
| from Anonymous
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 12:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
It is a known fact that women are attracted to older men. When I say older, I don't necessarily mean that a twenty-five year old will date a man who's seventy-three. What I'm saying is that relative to their own age, women, in general, will date men that are a few years older than themselves. So if a woman is twenty, she'll date a man in his thirties. If she's thirty, she'll probably date a man in his forties and so on.
Most women will admit that they want a strong man who can stand his own ground and be confident. Back in the day, this meant an egg fertilizer with blessed genetics who could hunt to feed his family while protecting them from predators.
Of course, today we live in a more civilized society. Women no longer need a mate, hunter or protector (they now have sperm clinics, supermarkets and police officers to do that). But because of her upbringing, a woman still expects a man to provide for his family. She now expects her man to be mature and provide financial stability along with long-term security.
The Romantic Era and current television soap operas have inspired women to seek out men who have the sexual experience to enlighten the consummate. Women want men who have more than just oral sex on their minds; they want men who know every single sensual spot on (and in) their bodies, and who take the time to explore them thoroughly. (this does come with experience and thus age)
All these traits can be found in most men that are eighteen or over. But more often than not, women will associate older men with the capability of providing all the aforementioned traits. The only thing older men need to do is seduce them. Older men are usually more experienced at seduction then younger men. Older men are also more confident then younger men. Ask any women and she’ll tell you that confidence is appealing.
(reply to this comment)
| From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 14:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know about the older men stuff . . .I'm more into a man that is several years older than me (not more than 5 or so). But nothing in their 40's. Younger boys (than me) are just "boy toys" and I pretty much use them for sexual purposes (they just keep going and going and going) as opposed to securituy with an older man. JMHO.(reply to this comment) |
| | From JoeH
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 17:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jules already responded to you below. While some of what you've said is true, you're kind of all over the place and should try to arrange your thoughts in a more coherent fashion.
To your mess of pottage I'd like to add something which may be taken as a misogynistic remark: women like to think that they are more mature than the men of their age group, so they date men who are older than they are. Another view is that they want to be dominated, which in some cases is unfortunately quite accurate, and a man who is older than they are is more capable of this.
But while we're criticizing women, what about the men who date younger women? What's going through their minds? I have some ideas about this: insecurity and a need for a power fix. Not to mention shallowness and vanity. They like the respect and worship they get from younger women that an intelligent mature woman their own age would never give them. So they settle for the stupid bimbo who thinks they're something really special, when in reality they've got nothing on the average guy their own age, but they can lord it over the young guys that they have "experience" and "security/stability"
So in conclusion, very few human problems can be defined in sexist, or feminist terms. The reality is that people are idiots, and we do idiotic things.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Monday, November 11, 2002, 13:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok, I think this is about due, and hey Joe, what are friends for?
I propose we open a "Get Joe Into Therapy" fund. With some help he could get a handle on his issues with women, have better luck interacting with them, and possibly even get some. Less sexual frustration equals more happiness and joy all round and less wasted time for everyone else reading this constant flow of sexist comments from him.
We could sell "Get Joe Into Therapy" t-shirts, with all proceeds donated towards helping our friend in need. (reply to this comment) |
| | From TimR
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 01:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
Brilliant idea! Much better than my previous T-shirt concept: "Get Joe into his own Victor camp" (lol)
You could start a web campaign like that girl who couldn't pay her credit card bills. (savekaryn.com) I think this could really catch on, ala "Killroy was here"
The best part would be giving our parents matching "Get Joe into therapy" shirts for Christmas. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Sex
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 18:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh come on, women don't date older men because of some misplaced idea that they are more mature than men their own age. No, there is a simple and more carnal reason why we like men who are older. The simple fact is they are better in bed. They know exactly what they are doing. They know how to please a woman. And when you are tired of trying to teach that to a man your own age and just want to have good sex for a change, then you know you can rely on a man with experience.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Sex
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Alright Tim R.!! You know what you are talking about. I date a 40 yr. old and he is in great shape, runs everyday, looks likes he's 23 year-old, and has absolutely no problem with the "physical performance of an 18 year old," and, he doesn't take anything. I think the idea of "old" is changing these days with people taking better care of themselves, living healthy, eating right, and exercising. But of course he has the maturity and experience of a 40-year-old. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From JoeH
Monday, November 11, 2002, 15:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
young guys, take note! apparently we all need to get down to the local library and read up on the complex topic of women's bodies, because we can't very well permit old guys to kick our butts in that department now can we?
That being said, if we're doing a shitty job, just tell us how to do it right! The lack of communication is the real problem. If I'm with a woman who's sucking in more than one sense of the word, I'll give her some pointers.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
Old guys are given to much credit for their years of "experience". As far as I'm concerned, and that's pretty far, they're chained eagle, missinonary position style foggies.
Old Guy: "ugh,you want me to put my tongue where???...blush, blush, schock, schock. I thought tossing salad is what you do in the kitchen" (reply to this comment) |
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Monday, November 11, 2002, 07:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, these traits (I would all them SKILLS) CAN be found in 18 year olds, but usually AREN'T.
Someone asked why, if 40 year old men are so much better in bed, why Viagra is so agressively marketed to them? well there are two very good reasons which fit within the theory that older men are better in bed.
1) While older men can invariably sustain an erection longer, and have generally overcome any tendency to premature ejaculation, they will rarely, without some kind of chemical aid be able to enjoy sex more than once or twice in a night.
2) In the case where said 40 year old has been with the same partner for a number of years, he may need an extra boost in order to be as turned on about her as he was when they were both younger.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from Tea
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 05:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
Good work, bro.
(reply to this comment)
| from MercyCan'tBeBotheredToLogIn
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 03:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
THE MAN KNOWS!!!
(reply to this comment)
| from
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 03:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
(reply to this comment)
| from Tim R
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 00:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well said Tony! Sometimes the answer is that there is no answer.
(reply to this comment)
| from C'est Moi
Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 23:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Antonius, for verily thou shalt...whatever. Aaargh!!
(reply to this comment)
| from Jules
Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 22:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Damn you Anthony.
How the hell did you know this stuff?
Asking the tough questions is fun, answering them is not so much.
(reply to this comment)
| from JoeH
Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 19:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
brilliant!
(reply to this comment)
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