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from Wolf Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 00:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I haven't made up my mind about monogamy yet, but when I do it's going to be 100% my decision, not a result of some stupid cult that I grew up in. I think it's ridiculous to blame promiscuity on your upbringing -- just like blaming violence or drunkenness on your upbringing. Sure, our parents were whores and pimps, but other people grew up in trailers with drunken, abusive parents -- ultimately we can either make our own destiny or let our destiny be made for us. I, for one, prefer to determine my own. (reply to this comment)

from AMC28 Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 14:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude, growing up in or out of the Family, everyone gets bored and wonders what it would be like to be with someone other than our spouse/current partner. I think that the sexual freedom we witnessed growing up in the Family may have given us a more flippant attitude regarding how we view cheating, but I don’t think that it’s specifically related to growing up in the Family. I personally have gone the complete opposite direction and have zero tolerance for cheaters and infidelity in general. I find it inexcusable no matter what the circumstance. (reply to this comment)

from tuneman7 Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 13:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Monogamy is possible. I've always rebelled against the "Law of Lust" doctrines from the time I was a child. Everyone was getting hurt and was emotionally messed up as the result of it. When not in a committed relationship I sometimes find myself not having too many boundaries and perhaps being a little more free wheeling than I should be. But I've had the experience of someone that I loved deeply cheating on me, and it absolutely devastated me. Sexual compulsion is something a lot of us have to deal with, I'm not going to say that I'm not immune to it. But I remember seeing how much women hurt in the group, and how men hurt and all the nonsense this law of lust foolishness caused, and how much I hurt when someone I cared about was going off to kick it with someone else, and vice versa. Get your Ya yas out of your system before you're together with someone is all I have to say. Open relationships don't work either, neither are they very healthy from a raw statistical perspective, most ending up in divorce, etc. ... Anyhow, good luck with your situation. If you've found a beautiful woman you love and who loves you, that's a rare thing, don't waste it for a piece of ass that you can get anywhere anytime. That's my opinion, I may be wrong, but I feel pretty strongly about it. I loved a beautiful girl one time who slept with another man, and it devastated me. (reply to this comment)

From exister99 Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 13:47 (Agree/Disagree?) While we are on the subject of things that are possible: Zerogamy is also possible. Not a lot of fun, but definitely possible.(reply to this comment)

from Spring Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:58 (Agree/Disagree?) I think monogamy is absolutely possible, although I suspect that as a group we might have a more difficult time with it than most. I was with the same guy for nearly 10 years (6 of them married) and was always faithful ... not necessarily because I wasn't interested in other people but because I knew how hurt my ex would be if I had cheated. At one point early in our relationship we had discussed my upbringing and I had rather flippantly stated that I didn't necessarily see a problem with swinging as long as everybody was mature enough to handle it, etc., and he was shocked! Later on it came back to bite me after my babies were born and he suggested he could see somebody on the side until I was "ready" again, but by then I had realized that I wasn't as selfless as I might have believed previously. These days I vote for serial monogamy. As far as the whole "law of love" thing goes, I can't speak for others on this site but it seems to me like it was more a "law of lust". People got hurt all the time. I don't think most people can handle it, myself included. (reply to this comment)

from steam Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Upbringing can handicap us (in the sense that a golfer has a handicap) but we cannot use it as an excuse to hurt others and perpetuate these cycles. Bottom line, if at the time you got married you knew she believed you were commiting to a "forsaking all others 'till death do us part" relationship, then you need to live up to your commitments. (reply to this comment)

from cynic Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 08:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Of course it's possible. Let's not make too many excuses for ourselves on the basis of having had a screwy upbringing, for goodness' sake! -- If you don't want to cheat, you won't. If you want to badly enough, you will, it's that simple. So just make up your mind, do what you want, and take responsibility for your actions and the consequences. If you can't deal with the prospect of having sex with only one person for the rest of your life, you either have to end it with your s/o or explore the possibility of an open marriage. But, I'd imagine that most women (including, it seems, your wife) would not be thrilled about that prospect unless they had an inkling that you leant 'that way' at an early stage in the relationship. (reply to this comment)

from a girl... Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 02:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Before I met my present partner (been together 7 years) I didn't really grasp the concept of faithfulness. I basically slept with anyone I found remotely attracted to and had casual, non-committed relationship. But for me personally I think it was just that I hadn't met anyone I loved enough to be committed to. I can honestly say that I've never even wanted to cheat on my present partner. He's the only person I want to be intimate with. But even if I didn't feel that way, I know how much pain it would cause him if I was unfaithful so I would never want to do that to him. Have you considered seeing a therapist to see if perhaps there is some deeper issue causing you to be unfaithful? I know it sounds like a lot of nonsense, but I know for myself that part of my cheapened attitude towards sex with multiple partners was a lack of self esteem (a nice little pressie from TF). Not that I'm saying it is the same case with you, but you never know what might be going on subconciously. (reply to this comment)

From Jazy aka Alfred Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 13:48 (Agree/Disagree?) To all who've responded so far, thank you. However, to clarify the issue a bit further, we (my wife and I) do have a somewhat "open" relationship. After much debate and discussion, (and 11 years of marrieage) we both decided to explore the "swingers lifestyle" and see if it was something we could relate to. Turns out it is, and from time to time, we enjoy other couples together in the same room, with full consent from all involved. Fully understanding that it is strictly sex, without emotinal attachments from anyone. It's not something we do weekly or even monthly, just a different spin to spice up our relationship now and then. We also see a couples therapist, who is fully aware of our choices and decissions and seems to believe that our biggest problem is communication with each other, more than who we choose to sleep with. Even though I've shared bits and pieces of my past with her, I still find it very difficult to go into any level of detail about the darker parts of my childhood/adolecent years with her without feeling like I'm re-living it all over again. As far as self esteem, I long ago got over the idea that was so greatly instilled in us that we as individuals were useless and should submit to the will of the shepherds and be humble and all that bull crap that was always hidden behind the excuse of "it's God's will". So I don't think that's a problem, on the contrary, while in TF I was always being diciplined for being "too proud" or talking too much about worldly things. I'd say my self image is quite good and healthy. I's more of the desire to mess around with other women that I wonder about if it's just me, or if being born in TF and being stuck in it till I was 15 might have had an undue influence on how I perceive monogamy in general, or if it's a common thing with ex TFers. I do appreciate all the comments so far, I never knew this website was even around, when I left I tried real hard to sever any and all ties that would in any way remind me of what I'd been through, yet somehow the past still seems to haunt me now and again. It wasn't till about 2 months ago while chatting with one of my sibblings about how we all turned out that she mentioned this site to me. In a perverse sort of way it's a good feeling to know I'm not the only one that went through all those things.(reply to this comment)

From Christy Sunday, April 02, 2006, 09:50 (Agree/Disagree?) You didn't mention whether or not you have children, but if you do, the repercussions of your chosen lifestyle could effect more than just your marriage. Trying to keep it secret from them doesn't always work. Plus there are other potential dangers that you could be exposing them to if these rendezvous' take place in your own home.(reply to this comment)

From steam Wednesday, March 29, 2006, 06:18 (Agree/Disagree?) You may end up finding this "just sex no emotions" thing doesn't exactly work out that way. No one can predict the future, but I would give far better than house odds that if this continues indefinetly someone will end up with emotions involved as well.(reply to this comment)

From exister99 Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 14:07 (Agree/Disagree?) The whole "swingers lifestyle" is a bit of a sociological curiosity which is made just a little more laughable by the fact that its practitioners seem to think that they are on some sort of behavioral cutting edge. You're basically just doing what we humans have been doing since we were lower order primates, except that now it is mutually consensual and you are in the same room. Woohoo! If awareness of all things is the ultimate good then I guess you have reached the nexus of your existence. The main problem I have with all of this swinging business is that it's just structured infidelity being used in a failed attempt to replace the soul crushing boredom of structured fidelity. It is a failed attempt because structure makes all things lame, even things as fun as fucking around. Have fun with couple's therapy, or as I like to call it "Gang up with your therapist and verbally assault your husband" Time.(reply to this comment)

From cynic, back and ten times more cynical Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 14:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe i'm being overly pissy tonight but I think you're being extremely unfair to your wife in expecting her to go along with your swinging fancies just because you grew up in a sex cult. It seems to me (going by your first posting) that there are problems with your and her differing views on sex outside of marriage, and I'd be concerned that your wife is being made to do something that she does not enjoy, perhaps out of fear of losing you. This will surely build resentments within your marriage and will probably end up being the beginning of the end. But then, I suppose that if she really didn't want to, she should be strong enough to just say no, and make you choose between your 'wonderful love' with her and the fresh pussy. Meh, relationships suck!(reply to this comment)

From some guy Wednesday, March 29, 2006, 13:13 (Agree/Disagree?) WOW, I guess this site is not only filled with bitter people, it's also has an overly abundant supply of sarcastic, narrow minded, self righteous better that thou type assholes. If you read carefully, it was discussed, and agreed upon by both parties, not forced onto one by the other, but hey, be a cynic all day long, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.(reply to this comment)

From cynic, feeling slightly less cynical today Wednesday, March 29, 2006, 15:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Listen, buddy. The guy came on here to talk about his difficulties in getting his wife to understand his issues with monogamy, right? That clearly implies that they have had (and most probably continue to have) problems in reconciling what are probably very different attitudes in regard to the sanctity of marriage and all that nonsense. He then goes on to say that after much debating (let's seeeeee, who do you think might have had reservations about fucking around, in this particular scenario, hmmmm?), they're now doing the swinging thing... Are you getting what I'm getting at here??? Jesus fucking Christ, I never said that there was anything 'wrong' with swinging, per se, just that in this case I don't see that it is necessarily the healthiest way to approach the problems within their marriage. I'll bet his precious little wifey who he so adores isn't half as pleased as he is with their little arrangement. Meh, relationships still suck.(reply to this comment)

From chill dude Wednesday, March 29, 2006, 15:01 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't think anyone was accusing you of being complicit in the rape of your wife, it sounded more like he was suggesting coercion or persuasion. Perhaps your enthusiasm might have clouded your ability to notice that she may not be all as keen as you are. You did say that you have differing views on monogamy and that you have a problem with it. If she doesn't have a problem with monogamy, why would she want to see you having sex with other people? (reply to this comment)

From exister99 Tuesday, March 28, 2006, 14:12 (Agree/Disagree?) One pleasant side effect of swinging was the election of Senator Barack Obama. When Jeri Ryan revealed that her creep husband Jack was forcing her to go to swinger's clubs that was the final nail in his political coffin and assured Obama's victory. So keep on swinging, you creepy, swinging swingers.(reply to this comment)