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from tastypants Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 02:30 (Agree/Disagree?) not to offend anyone but "fuck the family" i was in it till i was 14 and i thank god that my parents left. they are a bunch of wierdos. im glad that i was younger and didnt have to deal with this shit. i was one of the problem kid and got sent to victors camp where i did whatever i wanted but got introuble for it. but i didnt care. all that they did was make us read gay shit and work. they made us clean nasty ass shit that you couldnt pay anyone to clean. i dont care because dawn was there she was hot shit if anyone knows where she is or how to contact her it would be great i think her name was dawn miller her dad was abner (some big shot) she had a sis michelle cathren miller or somethin like that. last i heard she left taiwan for romania but i dunno i would love to get in contact with her so help a brother out. (reply to this comment)

From Meathead Friday, August 20, 2004, 03:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Yo Dude U want to get in contact with Dawn Miller i hav her sistaz e-mail adress and if u want i can ask. Dawn's sis, Jenny, is my broz ex Gf. dats how i have it. I no wat you mean Dawn was absolutely "Da bawmb" i lyk had a crush on her a cupla years ago. but back to the subject. my e-mail address is mike_barta1@hotmail.com so if u want it just e-mail me and ill give it to u if i can get it. Peace brotha.(reply to this comment)

From Meathead Friday, August 20, 2004, 03:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Yo Dude U want to get in contact with Dawn Miller i hav her sistaz e-mail adress and if u want i can ask. Dawn's sis, Jenny, is my broz ex Gf. dats how i have it. I no wat you mean Dawn was absolutely "Da bawmb" i lyk had a crush on her a cupla years ago. but back to the subject. my e-mail address is mike_barta1@hotmail.com so if u want it just e-mail me and ill give it to u if i can get it. Peace brotha.(reply to this comment)

from Anthony Friday, March 19, 2004 - 19:48 (Agree/Disagree?) It strikes me as queerishly irresponsible and fucked-up to blame an old dead Jew for one's proclivities! (reply to this comment)

From dina Friday, April 09, 2004, 16:00 (Agree/Disagree?) If you took the time to read what venus_fly_trap wrote you should be able to understand that his/her “proclivities” and understanding of sexuality, came as a direct result from her experiences in TF and as such “that old dead Jew” and his followers are very responsible. (reply to this comment)

from exister Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 15:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Sex was yet another tool used to control the flock. A lot of people get all hung up on the question of whether or not the control was an intentional conspiracy. It doesn't really matter. The possibility that top leadership really believes the drivel they are spewing does not reduce their responsibility for all of the harm they have caused. You make a good point about our oversexualization as children. One of the saddest indicators of this is the massive boon that SGA FM girls have been to the strip club industry in the US. It is a statistical aberration for that many bright young girls to become strippers. I don't look down on any of them, but I feel they constitute a sad legacy of the Family's "Sexy Culture." (reply to this comment)

from xhrisl Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 03:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Insightful and poignant. (reply to this comment)

from Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 16:06 (Agree/Disagree?) I echo Sunny: true! Thank you for writing this brave article. I identify with all of the experiences you relate of what we saw from the adults' behavior and what we were exposed to. I am thinking that you may be slightly younger than me. Maybe only a year, the revolutions and counterrevolutions happened very fast in TF. I recall a very confusing episode of being molested as a young child. Curiously, it was right at the time the Letter was published "The Devil Hates Sex...But God Loves It!" where Berg famously declared no barriers applied, age, relative, whatever. When I was 12, I was an "adult." I was allowed into weekly video night, the weekly wine ration. I was also deflowered by the shepherd, after being sent to him by his wife who had been given a Power of Attorney by my parent, now 1000 kms away, and to whose care I had been entrusted. I became his regular snack and was the target of other adult men as well. As an "adult" I had the dubious treat of being included in "romantic night" as well. Some of my starkest memories involve hearing about the "first time" of adults around me and the descirption of a steppparent who was there for "retraining" about how they liked "it" (that was what they drew out of a hat). I recall one of my peers in tears at the sexual question she drew, and I recall boys younger than me getting the prize of sharing in the trailer with an Auntie who is now on Family Care Foundation's site as a project manager. This was a prize for bobbing for apples. The "marrytime" dream and "child brides" were the rage letters. Then it was declared that chidlbirth by one younger than 16 was risky. Plus, we should not get knocked up because it was around 1986, when as we knew, the AC was to begin his 7-year reign, and in 3.5 years those of us not already martyred would be fleeing into the wilderness with no food, and worse, no Bibles except what we'd "hid in our hearts." Babies and toddlers and bellies were counterindicated. The next trend I remember was Teen Homes (instead of the teens being at the Combo). I was a bad apple, so I was back and forth in teen homes and other homes. There were sharing schedules among the teens, as first, "Liberty or Stumblingblock" had been issued and promptly burnt, followed by "Flirty Little Teens Beware!" but second, Berg had declared a delay in the arrival of the Great Tribulation, so there could be pregnancies if the girl was to give birth by 16. There was a questionnaire where you filled out your top 3 choices for time in the basement (where codified interactions could take place, other things were banned). It was patiently explained that some people would be in greater demand thus you might not get your top choice. However, during "video night" you were not supposed to sit by somebody you "liked." No displays of affection were allowed unless it was not somebody you "liked." Soon there was the "Make it Work!" vision where the kids were to get married and start popping out the babies. At this time, birth control was still a complete taboo. During this time I was kept away from the other teens, and was shunned, so I never got stuck in that trend. Then I escaped. I never had a relationship or any interaction at all with anybody who was not much older than me. I will not even go into how alienated I feel from the whole experience of "romance" in the regular sense (not "romantic night" sense). The whole experience growing up has seriously interfered with my self-image and affected my sexuality. While I have been able to overcome the lack of education (by getting one) and have gotten to the point where I don't feel inferior "achievement" wise, I have been seriously stunted in the area of romance/sexuality. And don't I have as much of a right to a healthy expression of that faculty as the next person who was not born in a sex cult? (reply to this comment)

From farmer Tuesday, March 16, 2004, 14:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Again & again shocking to read what many/most of you had to go through, but I believe that earthly & higher justice will take care eventually of rotters described here & elsewhere.. As TF considered itself to be the spearhead of Christianity, I like to respond to the very good article as such: I believe, Berg hated the principles of the NT regarding sex & marriage...he wanted more "freedom" to live out his fantasies... So from the Christian point of view, the Devil loved him for these ideas & through them, Berg polluted the minds of his followers. I never liked the title of that letter... the Devil doesn't hate sex, IMO, he likes his kind, without love, which is of God...I think there are plenty of examples. The lie was, that Berg's idea of "pure sex", although in contradiction with the NT, was of God...he blamed literally Paul for having gotten things confused & wrong. The bad fruits from Berg's ideas concerning sex, plus his never fulfilled prophecies, should be enough for F-members, to say good bye to TF, not to speak of the LJ-rev. of Zerby. Ironicically, Berg got on the wrong track concerning the interpretation of many verses also through a lack of education...In the Old Greek you find several words in use for love...e.g philia and agape, in the NT you don't find the word eros:love between man & woman...therewith Berg reached many wrong conclusions, twisting the meaning of scripture. (reply to this comment)

From jez Tuesday, March 16, 2004, 12:20 (Agree/Disagree?) I know exactly what you mean, you're probably a bit younger than me, but I had the same experience of being an adult at 12 and joining in the wine drinking/sharing/videos etc. The horrible thing was i was the eldest and one of the eldest 2nd gen in the entire TF, so all the sharing was with women the same age as my mum. I too experience problems in relationships, mainly to do with mistrust and a sense of alienation as I don't feel anyone understands what I've been through and when I do tell them, they react with shock and treat me like 'damaged goods'. I ended up marrying at 16 to a 'systemite' (I wanted a wife for myself, not a communal one) the same age as me, as she was pg and TF were shitting themselves at the possible repercussions from her well-connected family. She joined as well and we were both sent to a 'babe's ranch' were we went through the usual training lots of dishes/cooking/provisioning/memorising etc. At the age of 18 we sneaked out of the home we were in at 4 am, causing a bit of a panic and untold misery for other teens, who were then locked in their rooms at night. We have since divorced, as seems to be the case with many marriages formed in TF, there's no animosity between us and I visit my children as often as I can, seeing as they're on the other side of the world. I too don't feel like an under-achiever, as they're doing well in school and I'm at uni myself. Considering the obstacles I've overcome, I am actually rather proud of what I've managed to do, it's just difficult to impart this to my girlfriend without sounding like a freak. (reply to this comment)

from EyesWideShut Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 12:41 (Agree/Disagree?) True, true, true, true, true. (reply to this comment)