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from Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 12:37 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm not sure why anyone would have thought that THIS man could or should run the country! Dude has never really done anything admirable, nothing courageous, nothing real interesting. How is it that anyone thought he would be a good candidate? It's interesting to me how this country is a democracy, yet we still have our own version of a royal blood line. It doesn't seem to matter how stupid the idiot running for president is, just that he has the right last name. Kennedy...that's a go, Bush...that's good too, Kerry...not so good. He should have taken his wife's name, maybe he would have been elected. Or...maybe it's time for a woman! Oh no! I didn't just say that! Shhh! (reply to this comment)

from Goldy Friday, September 09, 2005 - 13:22 (Agree/Disagree?) “An unmitigated, total fucking disaster.” That’s not a quote from Mike Brown, but rather, a quote describing him. And most disturbingly, it’s not even a reference to his dismal performance as director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). This blunt critique was emailed to me from a regular reader who was apparently attracted to HorsesAss.org by her passion for politics and her love of Arabian horses. "I think I’ve told you that I’m into Arab horses. Well, for 3 years Michael Brown was hired and then fired by our IAHA, the International Arabian Horse Assoc. He was an unmitigated, total fucking disaster. I was shocked as hell when captain clueless put him in charge of FEMA a couple of years ago. He or the WH lied on the WH presser announcing him to FEMA. IAHA was never connected to the Olympic Comm, only the half Arab registry then and the governing body to the state and local Arabian horse clubs. He ruined IAHA financially so badly that we had to change the name and combine it with the Purebred registry." Yes, that’s right… the man responsible for directing federal relief operations in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, sharpened his emergency management skills as the “Judges and Stewards Commissioner” for the International Arabian Horses Association… a position from which he was forced to resign in the face of mounting litigation and financial disarray. And what of that misleading White House press release? "From 1991 to 2001, Brown was the Commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association, an international subsidiary of the national governing organization of the U.S. Olympic Committee." I can’t even begin to fact check the dates or IAHA’s alleged relationship to the US Olympic Committee, because of course, the IAHA doesn’t exist anymore, so there’s nothing to Google. But it begs the question… how the hell did his prior job experience prepare Brown to head FEMA? Well, judging by his agency’s performance over the past few days… it didn’t. http://www.horsesass.org/index.php?p=965 (reply to this comment)

from Mack Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 20:17 (Agree/Disagree?) From the looks of xolox profile it would appear he finger paints for a living …when he’s not sniffing the paint of course. It’s a shame idiots like xolox post political articles on moving on which do nothing to help fulfill the purpose of why this site is here to begin with. It's also interesting how virtually uneducated buffoons are bashing people on here who have done some thing productive with their lives. Fortunately enough some ex-members on this site did manage to move on and have done productive things with their lives like getting an education and a job in the “system.” Yet others are still locked in a world of bashing the system, blaming the government for a person’s action instead of holding people accountable for their own actions/decisions or lack thereof. Ultimately people like xolox waste people’s time with their views and stupid political “Reposts” on here, almost as much of a waste of time it was trying to sell the same bull when they were in the Family. Instead of doing/posting an article to help people get out of TF or “move on.” Xolox has a sad existence what ever it is he does or doesn’t do. One statement xolox made in one of his comments was “I trust you read this in High School ?” I will point out this question he asked is proof of how far distant he is from most people on this site particularly ex-members who didn’t go to high school. Not attending high school was also the case with hundreds of other ex-members some of which now have gone to college became lawyers work in the military or government and very successful in life. Although I never went to high school I can say from hearing the term (and understanding it as an academic of course) is that xolox has a “high school mentality” or even grade school in some of his comments. Xolox you should post your political articles or conspiracy theories on End Time News? They would love to have you as one of their reporters and for a start you would fit in fine with this “REPOST.” (reply to this comment)

From Saturday, September 10, 2005, 16:40 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't consider, "doing something productive" as joining the army. Why do army guys think they are so cool? Sheep! OFF course you have to question the goverment, TF or no TF!(reply to this comment)

From Monday, September 12, 2005, 14:29 (Agree/Disagree?) It is interesting that they would consider the business of destruction as something productive.(reply to this comment)

From Nick Monday, September 12, 2005, 15:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah, your totally right! Infact I have a wonderful idea, lets just totally disband the armed forces since all they ever do is "destructive". I mean we all know the army never does anything productive... like protect your sorry ass from invasion. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Saturday, September 10, 2005, 12:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Shouldn't you be in Iraq making unfortunate "collateral damage" out of Iraqi babies?(reply to this comment)

From Nick Monday, September 12, 2005, 14:03 (Agree/Disagree?) OK, that’s taking things way to far. Not only is that extremely off-color and insulting to Mack's time spent in the Armed Forces, but it's entirely untrue. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 12, 2005, 14:31 (Agree/Disagree?) You're absolutely right, that was wrong. I apologize for that Mack.(reply to this comment)

From sarafina Monday, September 12, 2005, 10:59 (Agree/Disagree?) You know Mike; I’d just like to add my two cents in as well cause I’m too am tired of all your critical, rude,hauty and below the belt remarks. First, I did not write the anonymous comments below but I can tell you they are not full of shit and are not far from the truth. I’ve never met you either however I know 3-4 people who have (your reputation proceeds you) who have pretty much said the same thing about you. In fact one of them actually busted out laughing when you wrote “I don’t, smoke pot all day” maybe technically you don’t smoke “ALL” day but you sure do a lot if not half the day or every day. From every one I’ve met who knows/knew you have all said you are a major pot head in fact some of them have even been over to your house and have smoked with you. But big deal, who cares, I don’t care you smoke, we all have our vices. What I do care about is the way you’ve been talking to people on here. I wasn’t going to jump into this conversation but I too am getting tired of all your judgmental comments, bashing and name calling. I normally just ignore your babbling as it is a public site and are free to say what you please but when you start bashing and putting down decent good people and friends, people who value life, self worth and others far more then you then I feel I at least need to ask you “why you do it?” Are you just bored? Do you get off on it? As for attacking Mack, that was just low. I’ve known him for years now; he is a close personal friend. He is one of the nicest guys/friends you can ever meet. He is always offering help to those who need it, he has offered to take in younger brothers and sisters of SGA’a who weren’t established enough at the time to help their siblings who wanted out. He offered to teach them to drive, help pay for their education, get a job, loan them his car, and share his house with them on more then one occasion. What, may I ask, are you doing these days to constructively help someone? Let’s look your whole excuse for your lack of ambition. You say it’s because you don’t want to be “another idiot in that machine” Besides bordering close to sounding like a bergisim that is a really poor excuse. There are many, many jobs where you don’t have to go “stepping on those below to suck the dick of those above” You CAN make a decent living you just have to get off your ass and look. You know Mr. Xolox,, It’s fine that you don’t give a shit about money or financial gain, or that you don’t care to progress and one day own a house, you can live like a lazy bum all you want but what I dislike about fathers like you and the question I want to ask you is…. what about your family? You know, a lot of people have told me they really feel sorry for your wife and kid (yes, I’ve heard that from more then one person now). Did you ever think of them when you made the decision to settle for that mediocre life? Why should your wife and kid have to sacrifice a could be better life on your behalf? Don’t you want them to have the best? Don’t you love them? Why not do it for them? Why not start saving so your kid can go to collage and succeed and be wealthy and enjoy the luxuries of money, something that they (unlike you) may want to do. I’m sure you did not disclose your lazy life plan of settling for the bare necessities when you were saying your vows, (oh wait, you haven’t even had the decency to say any vows) but to be fair you should have. You are so lucky to have the beautiful, sweet, wonderful, supportive wife/mother of your child (or whatever you call her), because really, you don’t deserve her. All that to say, you are no one to be down talking anyone, YOU ARE NOT ANY BETTER then anyone here, your not even going anywhere in life nor care to, and self admittedly are proud of it. So pleeeeeease, just because you have a bigger mouth, and more time then the rest of us, could you try, oh please try ....to be a diamond of dust..and just float by. J/king (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 12, 2005, 13:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh sara(not so)fina, I can dig it if you have a problem with my comments, many of them are off color. But when you listen to random rumors to make assesments about a person, you're not better than the very thing you criticize. Fuck you. (reply to this comment)

From Monday, September 12, 2005, 13:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Unfortunately what she was referring to is not random rumors but actual facts! But whatever, I would not have expected you to really argue anything that she posted. You know it's all true. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 12, 2005, 14:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, she's wrong about the college savings thing. I'll admit I used to smoke way too much, no longer so. As far as my relationship goes, I don't give a shit what the little bitties gossip about. I'm sure she thinks she knows a lot about the matter, but she does not, and frankly should keep herself out of it. I know you'll disagree, be my guest.(reply to this comment)

From sarafina Monday, September 12, 2005, 17:01 (Agree/Disagree?) No, I’ll agree to the fact that it probably wasn’t my business talking about your relationship or personal life on a public forum. In fact this is the first time I can remember in all the years I’ve been on here that I have said anything that personal about anyone at all and I certainly don’t plan on making it a habit. I also agree that stooping to your level doesn’t make me much better. I will admit I was pretty riled up with some of your pervious comments to fellow survivors. I’m sure there may be a few insignificant / minor details I may have gotten wrong like maybe you have in the past few years started a college fund ,if so good for you. But my general assessment of your character was really based on your own behavior and comments on this site. I suspect you calling it all gossip and rumors is just an attempt to deflect from real point I was making, which was, that everyone, (you and my self included) has their own problems, issues, bad habits and room for improvement and we all could use a little encouragement and help. What we don’t need is a bunch of negative energy thrown around at us every time we make an attempt to post an opinion on here; we all get enough crap dealing with our everyday lives. I’m not saying or even asking you to like or agree with everyone on here. I just think there are other ways you can disagree, banter, debate and even argue without telling people to “fuck off” or calling them names or making vulgar references every time someone says something you don’t like; Or spouting off some demeaning, smart aleck comment that has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the discussion like a regular high school bully. You are constantly putting people down right and left for no good reason. You aren’t that better off then most on here and therefore have no merit to be trash talking everyone else. And maybe I should have just said that instead of dragging on about that other stuff about you. I appreciate the apology to Mack, It was a notable effort, and maybe you aren’t that bad after all. You may not see eye to eye with him, nothing wrong with that, but I’ll tell you one thing, he would give his life to protect or save most all of you if he were asked. If you needed a place to stay he’d help you, he’s a pretty selfless guy and I haven’t met too many like him. He’s a good guy to have at your back, wither in the military or out.(reply to this comment)

From Monday, September 12, 2005, 11:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Right on! well said... (reply to this comment)

From vixen Saturday, September 10, 2005, 13:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Honestly, guys! This personal feud is beginning to get tedious. Can't you take your tit-for-tat somewhere else? Please???(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Saturday, September 10, 2005, 16:12 (Agree/Disagree?) I'd like to think there's enough content in here that we can each read the comments we choose.(reply to this comment)

From Friday, September 09, 2005, 08:36 (Agree/Disagree?) He said he has no conspiracy theories, however just a few months ago he posted some long rambling post about how the UK bombings were the UK governments fault and they knew all about it. When people actually believe that crap it just goes to show what nut jobs they really are. It's just like Berg always blaming everything on the Jews. (reply to this comment)

From Sunday, September 11, 2005, 10:31 (Agree/Disagree?) No intention of being a conspiracy theorist when I ask: Why Halliburton was awarded the reconstruction bid in N. O? Is it like a wal-mart thing, is it because they have been awarded a whole country that they can do these things much cheaper than anyone else?(reply to this comment)

From Sunday, September 11, 2005, 12:12 (Agree/Disagree?) No need to be a conspiracy theorist there either, since it's too simple. They're cronies of those in power.(reply to this comment)

From Saturday, September 10, 2005, 16:43 (Agree/Disagree?) You should at least look at the evidence. History is an amazing puzzle.(reply to this comment)

from Victim's account Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 18:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Note: Bradshaw and Slonsky are paramedics from California that were attending the EMS conference in New Orleans. Larry Bradshaw is the chief shop steward, Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790; and Lorrie Beth Slonsky is steward, Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790.[California] Their tale in just one of this type now appearing in many newspapers, online and with listservers. The fact they are paramedics is largely irrelevant to the tale, however, there are many EMT/Paramedic personal accounts online - some even more incredible. Pleae do not write to us for permission to reprint, interview, etc. They do not work for EMSN. Their story is a reprint they disseminated. Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked. The dairy display case was clearly visible through the widows. It was now 48 hours without electricity, running water, plumbing. The milk, yogurt, and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers, and prescriptions and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's windows, residents and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and hungry. The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized and the windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters. There was an alternative. The cops could have broken one small window and distributed the nuts, fruit juices, and bottle water in an organized and systematic manner. But they did not. Instead they spent hours playing cat and mouse, temporarily chasing away the looters. We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days ago and arrived home yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of the TV coverage or look at a newspaper. We are willing to guess that there were no video images or front-page pictures of European or affluent white tourists looting the Walgreen's in the French Quarter. We also suspect the media will have been inundated with "hero" images of the National Guard, the troops and the police struggling to help the "victims" of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but what we witnessed,were the real heroes and sheroes of the hurricane relief effort: the working class of New Orleans. The maintenance workers who used a fork lift to carry the sick and disabled. The engineers, who rigged, nurtured and kept the generators running. The electricians who improvised thick extension cords stretching over blocks to share the little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck on rooftop parking lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators and spent many hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of unconscious patients to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in elevators. Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing" boats to rescue their neighbors clinging to their roofs in flood waters. Mechanics who helped hot-wire any car that could be found to ferry people out of the City. And the food service workers who scoured the commercial kitchens improvising communal meals for hundreds of those stranded. Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had not heard from members of their families, yet they stayed and provided the only infrastructure for the 20% of New Orleans that was not under water. On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in the hotels in the French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists, conference attendees like ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels for safety and shelter from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone contact with family and friends outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly told that all sorts of resources including the National Guard and scores of buses were pouring in to the City. The buses and the other resources must have been invisible because none of us had seen them. We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came up with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. Those who did not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket were subsidized by those who did have extra money. We waited for 48 hours for the buses, spending the last 12 hours standing outside, sharing the limited water, food, and clothes we had. We created a priority boarding area for the sick, elderly and new born babies. We waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the buses. The buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the arrived to the City limits, they were commandeered by the military. By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water. Sanitation was dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair increased, street crime as well as water levels began to rise. The hotels turned us out and locked their doors, telling us that the "officials" told us to report to the convention center to wait for more buses. As we entered the center of the City, we finally encountered the National Guard. The Guards told us we would not be allowed into the Superdome as the City's primary shelter had descended into a humanitarian and health hellhole. The guards further told us that the City's only other shelter, the Convention Center, was also descending into chaos and squalor and that the police were not allowing anyone else in. Quite naturally, we asked, "If we can't go to the only 2 shelters in the City, what was our alternative?" The guards told us that that was our problem, and no they did not have extra water to give to us. This would be the start of our numerous encounters with callous and hostile "law enforcement". We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on Canal Street and were told the same thing, that we were on our own, and no they did not have water to give us. We now numbered several hundred. We held a mass meeting to decide a course of action. We agreed to camp outside the police command post. We would be plainly visible to the media and would constitute a highly visible embarrassment to the City officials. The police told us that we could not stay. Regardless, we began to settle in and set up camp. In short order, the police commander came across the street to address our group. He told us he had a solution: we should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the greater New Orleans Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us out of the City. The crowed cheered and began to move. We called everyone back and explained to the commander that there had been lots of misinformation and wrong information and was he sure that there were buses waiting for us. The commander turned to the crowd and stated emphatically, "I swear to you that the buses are there." We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center, many locals saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we were headed. We told them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few belongings and quickly our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us, people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and others people in wheelchairs. We marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep incline to the Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our enthusiasm. As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move. We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans. Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from the rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the center divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned we would be visible to everyone, we would have some security being on an elevated freeway and we could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet to be seen buses. All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned away. Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others to be verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the City on foot. Meanwhile, the only two City shelters sank further into squalor and disrepair. The only way across the bridge was by vehicle. We saw workers stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi-trucks and any car that could be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to escape the misery New Orleans had become. Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole a water delivery truck and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for looting! A mile or so down the freeway, an army truck lost a couple of pallets of C-rations on a tight turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in shopping carts. Now secure with the two necessities, food and water; cooperation, community, and creativity flowered. We organized a clean up and hung garbage bags from the rebar poles. We made beds from wood pallets and cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the bathroom and the kids built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of plastic, broken umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food recycling system where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations (applesauce for babies and candies for kids!). This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs were met, people began to look out for each other, working together and constructing a community. If the relief organizations had saturated the City with food and water in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the ugliness would not have set in. Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water to passing families and individuals. Many decided to stay and join us. Our encampment grew to 80 or 90 people. From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media was talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked what they were going to do about all those families living up on the freeway? The officials responded they were going to take care of us. Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to it. Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food and water. Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because the agencies would force us into small atomized groups. In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we scattered once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill policies. The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day, made contact with New Orleans Fire Department and were eventually airlifted out by an urban search and rescue team. We were dropped off near the airport and managed to catch a ride with the National Guard. The two young guardsmen apologized for the limited response of the Louisiana guards. They explained that a large section of their unit was in Iraq and that meant they were shorthanded and were unable to complete all the tasks they were assigned. We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift had begun. The airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught in a press of humanity as flights were delayed for several hours while George Bush landed briefly at the airport for a photo op. After being evacuated on a coast guard cargo plane, we arrived in San Antonio, Texas. There the humiliation and dehumanization of the official relief effort continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a large field where we were forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the buses did not have air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds if us were forced to share two filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to make it out with any possessions (often a few belongings in tattered plastic bags) we were subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches. Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations had been confiscated at the airport because the rations set off the metal detectors. Yet, no food had been provided to the men, women, children, elderly, disabled as they sat for hours waiting to be "medically screened" to make sure we were not carrying any communicable diseases. This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the warm, heart-felt reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw one airline worker give her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers on the street offered us money and toiletries with words of welcome. Throughout, the official relief effort was callous, inept, and racist. There was more suffering than need be. Lives were lost that did not need to be lost. Sep 6, 2005, 11:59 By Parmedics Larry Bradshaw and Lorrie Beth Slonsky (reply to this comment)

from shocked Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 08:44 (Agree/Disagree?) What are the actual statistics on this? Or is this another meme that has gotten out of control, because there are some dramatic videos and exciting stories that tap into people's hopes and fears? Of the people who broke into stores, how many were getting food and water for their families or others in need? Given the situation there, I don't blame them at all. I would have done exactly the same thing for my family, and so would you. Anyone who talks about "zero tolerance" in this context is an idiot. Of the remaining people, some broke into stores and took things of value, but not for survival. (I've got to say, taking a TV in a shopping cart when your city is flooding doesn't seem particularly bright.) This has to be stopped to preserve law and order, but this isn't Somalia yet. And even there, if I had my family to protect, and no resources, laying in something of value that I could trade for food and water later might look pretty attractive as civilization crumbles around me. What would you do? If you didn't have a gun, lots of other people did, you wanted one, and you could grab one at the local unoccupied WalMart, would you do it? OK, some of the people were protecting their families, perhaps, but some are nut-cases and some are genuine bad guys. Right. But how many? Someone shot at a rescue helicopter. Did this happen once, or does it happen every time a rescue helicopter comes? It's bad no matter what, but you have to expect isolated nuts and bad guys in this situation. Are there really large numbers of organized gangs taking control of territory? I hear all these stories, and some of them have pictures or videos. But we know how that distorts reality. (You don't want people talking about Bush playing that guitar, do you?) So don't play the same game with violence in New Orleans. Otherwise, it sounds like everyone is lining up to blame the victims here, to make sure no one at higher levels bears any responsibility. Except God, who sent Katrina, of course. 'm not going to defend the genuine criminals there. I'm sure there are some. I'd bet you dollars to donuts it's less than the media portrayals suggest. (Or is the MSM accurate here, while it exaggerates the bad news in Iraq, eh?) But don't talk about "zero tolerance", or you're going to be hanging the proverbial kid who steals a loaf of bread. Meanwhile, I'm seeing a frantic effort to try to isolate the Bush administration from responsibility for competent governance, yet again. I'm sure you're going to dismiss me as a "Bush basher", but look at the pattern. The Bush administration goes into Iraq with a "lean, mean" fighting force that swiftly destroys the Iraqi army, but then is woefully inadequate to maintain law and order on the ground. Terrorism and anarchy take root. The Bush administration comes into power with a substantial budget surplus, which it then blows on rebates and tax cuts, leaving the US with the largest deficit in history. Apologists point out that the beginning of the economic downturn started during the Clinton administration, but then they can't explain why their actions made any sense. Hasn't anyone heard of saving for a rainy day? The Bush administration sees a major hurricane coming in from the Gulf. With five days notice, it is clear it will do major damage to several states, and quite possibly catastrophic damage to New Orleans. People are told to evacuate, but without enough resources to help those who can't afford a bus ticket, or who don't have anywhere to go anyway. People have been discussing the potential for disaster in New Orleans, and the levees specifically, for decades. With five days warning, watching the hurricane approach, why weren't preparations for the aftermath farther along when it hit? The response time speaks for itself. Now I'm seeing all this buck-passing. The governors should have done this. They mayors should have done that. No one could have anticipated the levees breaking. (Hah!) The looters make it impossible to help anyone. Come on! Not to mention the subtext that it's really the fault of those Muslims, and Blacks, and poor people. If they don't have money for bus tickets, they should drive! "Let them eat cake!" This goes way beyond incompetence. The most charitable interpretation I can imagine for this pattern is that the Bush administration lives in Fantasyland. The decision-makers have built a world of illusion, in which everything works out their way. They actively resist evidence that this illusory world might not be the real world, in which their actions have consequences different from what they hope. Grownups, IMHO, actively seek out contrary evidence, to test and improve their understanding of the world they live and act in. This is an everyday version of the scientific method, but that gets into a whole other discussion. But these people have power, so they take their actions, consequences happen. Levees break. People drown and die of thirst. Terrorists rejoice and flock to Iraq to enjoy and encourage the collapse of civilization there. (We may now be making slow and painful progress in Iraq, climbing out of a hole where the Bush administration did a lot of the digging.) The deficit continues to spiral out of control, and the administration doesn't know how to be responsible about spending. No one worries about global climate change. But it's always someone else's fault. As far as I can tell, the Bush administration has no concept of governance. Of planning for multiple contingencies, taking into account uncertainty about what's happening. Of making responsible investments for the future while restraining discretionary spending. They just don't know how to govern. They live in Fantasyland. I apologize for losing my temper here, but this is truly awful. (reply to this comment)

from Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 06:27 (Agree/Disagree?) TRAGEDY THAT EXPOSES THE RIGHT AS SO WRONG 8 September 2005 The mirror WHENEVER I harbour doubts about socialism, there's a few tricks to re-ignite the flame. Out comes a Dennis Skinner tape or The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. Or out I head to a certain Fulham pub to hear voices so far back they precede Adam, whining about life's big problems. Like whether to spend a gap year in Kathmandu or Klosters. But this week all I've had to do is watch the heartbreak in New Orleans to see the finest advert for socialism since Victorians sent infants up chimneys. Hurricane Katrina has exposed how the Third World is encouraged to fester just below the surface of the First World. How the richest nation on Earth stays rich by keeping millions of its people poorly paid, poorly educated, and badly looked after. So that when catastrophe strikes, the weakest stay mired in their own cesspit, while the well-paid, well-insured, well-educated ones get out. Advertisement How do you end up with corpses floating past the hungry and thirsty six days after a hurricane in the USA in 2005? Simple. You vote in a right-wing, neo-con government that sees collectivism, subsidies and community projects as the devil's work. You slash the engineering budget to build up New Orleans levees and privatise parts of the national emergency agency, to give tax cuts to the rich. You divert resources and manpower to a war in Iraq, fought on behalf of oil companies, paid for by the blood of soldiers who come from the same poor people you leave to rot in their shacks. You ignore evidence which says corporate America pollutes the planet so badly the Gulf of Mexico is two degrees hotter, making hurricanes more lethal. And when Katrina strikes, and the poorest have been left destitute and dying, what do those same leaders do? George Bush carries on playing guitar for fundraisers in California while Condoleezza Rice laughs along to Spamalot on Broadway. Then they blame everyone but themselves, set up their own inquiry into their own criminal negligence, and shamelessly hand the rebuilding contracts to their friends at Halliburton. THE same Republican donors given the contracts to rebuild Iraq, after their naked greed flattened that land. New Orleans happens when leaders take the cult of individualism to extremes. When voters buy into the notion that all government needs to do is pay for a police and an army to protect wealth and property, then let those who are able, fill their boots. And to hell with those who are unable. It's a philosophy they spread across the world in land-grabs like Operation Freedom. A freedom to covet even more of the planet's riches. As though those riches are theirs by right. Because they've got the muscle to steal them. I'm a socialist for selfish reasons. I want the world to be as peaceful, secure and happy as it can be, so mine and my kids' lives are worth living. For that to happen, we all need to feel we have an equal right to peace, security and happiness. Because when people realise they haven't, you get the grotesque anarchy we're seeing in cities as far apart as New Orleans and Baghdad. Spot the link. God bless George Bush's America. (reply to this comment)

from Ne Oublie Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 04:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I think this is a pretty fair commentary on the various levels of responsibility as per the American political structure. Mistakes were made at numerous levels, and from both sides of the American political divide in addition to the grassroots level of local emergency personnel. Responsibility should therefore be accepted at each level, rather than petty finger-pointing and partisan political game playing. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,23889-1770245,00.html (reply to this comment)

from Looky here Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 17:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Astounding! http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05023/446341.stm (reply to this comment)

from Gag Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 16:46 (Agree/Disagree?) http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197 (reply to this comment)

from Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 12:11 (Agree/Disagree?) By Steve Watson Imagine an America where everyone is displaced. It's survival of the fittest as all law and order has broken down. Martial law has been declared with 24 hr curfews, Posse Comitatus has been overturned and there are troops on the streets shooting anyone who disobeys their orders. Thousands and thousands of people are starving but the authorities will not allow aid in any significant amounts. Large crowds are quelled with the use of sonic lasers, whilst overhead drone aircraft monitor the area, checking for any anomalous activity. Any form of Local and State government has been abandoned and officials have been forcibly removed against their wills. The elite infiltrators of the Federal Government watch on from afar, in control of everything, answering to no one and getting fat off the profits of their own corrupt inactivity which brought about the situation in the first instance. They like it that way, it suits them down to the ground, why should they do anything to improve the situation? This is the nightmare situation of a New World Order takeover in America. It is what we have been warning the world about for years. It is no longer some distant possibility on the horizon that our children may have to endure and fight against, it is here, it is now. New Orleans is a testing ground for this exact scenario, all this is going on there now. We are witnessing in New Orleans, the construction of a microcosm for a "New America" and a New World Order. If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break The overriding issue that is simply being ignored by the mainstream media is that it was the federal government itself that lowered the guard in cutting off key funding to protect Louisiana from natural disasters. The New Orleans district of the US Army Corps of Engineers bore the brunt of a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding for fiscal year 2006. The Army Corps of Engineers sought $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans, while the White House slashed the request to about $40 million. Congress finally approved $42.2 million, less than half of the agency's request The Bush administration has been cutting funding for federal disaster relief funds since 2001 while doubling funding in other areas to pump up the biggest growth in government for decades, easily outstripping that of Bill Clinton. A report from the Best of New Orleans news website outlines the details. "...Among emergency specialists, 'mitigation' -- the measures taken in advance to minimize the damage caused by natural disasters -- is a crucial part of the strategy to save lives and cut recovery costs. But since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed and tossed aside. FEMA's Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half. Communities across the country must now compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars." The Bush administration's move to merge FEMA with Homeland Security meant that the two had to compete for funding. Straightforward projects that would have massively reduced the devastation we are now seeing, such as raising houses, were cast aside in favor of anti-terrorism measures. In early 2001, FEMA issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City!. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all." But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana was quoted on June 8, 2004 in the New Orleans Times-Picayune, as saying "It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us". Ultimately, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is directed, along with 15 other agencies, by the Federal Emergency Management Agency. "It is FEMA who is really calling the shots and setting priorities here," Lt. Gen. Carl A. Strock, commander of the corps has said. CONTINUED AT http://www.infowars.com/articles/new_orleans/new_world_orleans.htm (reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 12:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Paul Craig Roberts has held a number of academic appointments and has contributed to numerous scholarly publications. He served as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Regan administration. RELATED: Click here to listen to the full interview Roberts followed up his commentary Impeach Bush Now, Before More Die with an interview on The Alex Jones show on Monday 5th September 2005. The former Assistant Secretary had noted of the New Orleans disaster "If terrorists had achieved this result, it would rank as the greatest terrorist success in history." and went on to spell out how the disaster was left to happen. He succeeded these comments on Monday by laying out the facts again and asserting that the Federal government has been criminally negligent and should be held up to accountability. Mr Roberts believed that such comments would bring him much criticism from so called Patriots (the flag waving kind), yet he was surprised at the amount of people who agreed and even informed him that it was far worse then what he'd gone on record with. Roberts reviewed the way in which the federal government had slashed funding for flood prevention schemes and pumped everything into the war in Iraq and the war on Terror. He also went on to admit that the military was turning on the people, treating them as subjects, overturning the Posse Comitatus Act. Roberts agreed that FEMA has deliberately withheld aid, and cut emergency communication lines, and automatically made the crisis look worse in order to empower the image of a police state emerging to "save the day". He even insinuated that the shoot to kill policy was part of the overall operation in order get an awful precedence set to aid the military industrial complex takeover of America. "The power of the Federal Government is now greater than at any time, it'll never go back and the Posse Comitatus Act has been eroding ever since it was passed in 1878..." Roberts asserted. Roberts further commented "There is no excuse for this, we have never had in our history the federal government take a week to respond to a disaster...this is the first time ever that the help was not mobilized in advance. The proper procedure is that everything is mobilized and ready to go" Mr Roberts commented that the American people are being "brainwashed" and no longer believe what the founding fathers said over and over, that your worst enemy is always your own government and never confuse Patriotism with support for the government. He asserted that the mentality is "like that of the brown shirts that followed Hitler" and that the government is deadly dangerous, "you can't let the military take over policing". On the question of where this is all leading and what the government is gearing up for, Mr Roberts suggested that "It does look like there is a push coming from inside the bowels of the police authorities and it seems to be independent of whoever the President is or who or whatever party is in office. It just gets worse and it's hard to say that it's Bush doing it, he may not even know what's going on... it's enough for us to say that New Orleans demonstrated massive federal incompetence, if it were laid on private people would be tantamount to criminal negligence... some kind of accountability has to be exercised" The private corporations own and run everything and are turning America into a third world police state, when questioned as to how we can stop this Mr Roberts stated: "The longer it goes on it will be harder and harder to stop...It depends on how much resistance or what kind of resistance they meet, but I think one thing we can do is demand accountability for this failure, do not buy the Karl Rove lie that this was a failure of State and Local Government" Roberts urged listeners to look at the Patriot Act, which suspends Habeas Corpus, where they can now suspend you indefinitely, a massive erosion of civil liberties. He was quick to point out though that we should not assign the government omnipotence, we can make people aware of the situation and try to explain illogical actions that have no reasonable explanation. Roberts read out an email from an emergency management official who said that the feds are involved in everything they do, everything has to be approved by the feds. FEMA sets the table, Mr Roberts suggested, every major agency in New Orleans has been federalized, the State and Local officials have no authority. "They might screw up occasionally but why is it that NOTHING that was supposed to be done was done?" Roberts questioned. "The whole problem is...failure, massive unacceptable failure, criminal negligence... it has caused the US it's largest and most strategic international Port through which 25% of all our oil and gas comes... look at the price of gasoline, this is a tremendous impact... I don't see how a recession can be avoided... We have lost our most influential port through what appears to be INTENTIONAL incompetence, it's very hard to understand" Roberts went on to stress that this event is WORSE than 9/11 because it was announced days ahead of the event and contingency plans were intentionally ignored. The officials on the scene have said there was a complete stand down of the government and intentional incompetence. Furthermore they did nothing ON PURPOSE in order to provoke the resulting chaos and anarchy so they could say "look how out of control everything is - we have to have limits on freedom and troops on the streets.(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, September 08, 2005, 08:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Excellent points made there.(reply to this comment)

from vacuous Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 02:45 (Agree/Disagree?) There have been some snide remarks in several columns mentioning Kyoto and this being a wake up call to america in its ignoring its greenhouse gas emissions etc. Do you think this disaster will cause a change in the invironmental policy of the US? (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 03:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I read an article a couple days back (sorry, can't find the link) which addressed exactly that issue. The fact of the matter is that this hurricane has absolutely nothing to do with global warming. Meteorological records show that the rate hurricane strikes has not increased over the past century. If anything, the average number per decade has decreased from 19 in the 1850's to 14 in the last decade (if I remember the numbers correctly).(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 03:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Though not the one I originally read, this is an article on the same theme: http://bigcatchronicles.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/9/1/1186567.html(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, September 08, 2005, 05:13 (Agree/Disagree?) You're a smart guy, Ne Oublie, so if I were you I'd be careful about getting your science information from some anti-liberal, anti-environmental internet blog. Why don't you take a look at the peer reviewed scientific journal the article was ridiculing then make your decision? The truth is that most of the world's coastal towns were built during a period of relatively low hurricane frequency. Ecologists and meteorologists have been predicting something like Katrina for years yet no one listened as usual. You just can't build on a swamp and hope to hold back one of the largest rivers in the world forever. New Orleans was a ticking time bomb from its beginning and so are many of our coastal communities. Global warming, now more accurately called global climate change, has the consesus of the scientific community. It's the non-scientists and politicians who debate most frequently. The trouble is trying to pin point one hurricane on global warming. You just can't say Katrina is a result of global warming but Dennis wasn't. It's not that simple. You have to look at the changing chemical composition of the atmosphere then relate it to changes in climate change patterns, not single incidents but climate change patterns. It's here, it's happening whether you want to acknowledge it or not.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Thursday, September 08, 2005, 07:32 (Agree/Disagree?) PS: If you want to address the properties of and scientific basis for global climate change, I'll gladly do so. However, I suspect starting a new article to do so would be advantageous.(reply to this comment)

From xolox Thursday, September 08, 2005, 08:50 (Agree/Disagree?) And perhaps your comments on the subject could be remanded to said forum.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Thursday, September 08, 2005, 05:43 (Agree/Disagree?) In posting the link I stated 'Though not the one I originally read, this is an article on the same theme'. The original article I read was in The Times, a well respected broadsheet in the UK, and definitely not known for being 'anti-liberal'. As I said in my first post, I had trouble finding the link to the specific article (timesonline.co.uk tends to archive articles pretty regularly) so I simply did a Google search, which pulled up that blog.(reply to this comment)

From vacuous Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 02:46 (Agree/Disagree?) thats spelt environmental....sorry about that.(reply to this comment)

from Mack Monday, September 05, 2005 - 16:06 (Agree/Disagree?) George Bush and the federal government are not to blame for the disaster we have witnessed in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. In fact, the primary responsibility for the disaster response lies with New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco and other local officials. Yet leading Democrats and their allies in the major media are clearly using this disaster for political purposes and ignoring one obvious fact. This fact – which needs to be repeated and remembered – is that in our country, state and local governments have primary responsibility in dealing with local disasters. The founding fathers devised a federal system of government – one that has served us remarkably well through great disasters that have befallen America over more than two centuries. But if we believe the major TV networks, George Bush, FEMA and the Republicans in Congress are all to blame for the current nightmare. Let's remember that FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, was created only in 1979. It was formed to coordinate and focus federal response to major disasters – to "assist" local and state governments. Common sense suggests that local and state governments are best able to prepare and plan for local disasters. Is a Washington bureaucrat better suited to prepare for an earthquake in San Francisco, a hurricane in Florida, or a terrorist act in New York? After the Sept. 11 attacks against the World Trade Center, no one suggested that the Bush administration should have been responsible for New York's disaster response or that federal agents should have been involved in the rescue of those trapped in the buildings. Last year, four major hurricanes slammed into Florida. Governor Jeb Bush led the disaster response and did a remarkable job, with nothing happening like what we have seen in New Orleans. The primary response in disasters has always come from local communities and state governments. First responders and the manpower to deal with emergencies come from local communities: police, fire and medical. Under our federal system, these local departments answer to local authorities, not those in Washington. These first responders are not even under federal control, nor do they have to follow federal orders. In addition to local responders, every state in the Union has a National Guard. State National Guards answer first to the governor of each state, not to the president. The National Guard exists not to defend one state from an invasion by another state, but primarily for emergencies like the one we have witnessed in New Orleans and in other areas impacted by Katrina. (See: http://www.arng.army.mil/about_us/organization/command_structure.asp) The media would have you believe that this disaster was worsened by a slow response from President Bush and his administration, though the primary responsibility for disaster response has always been with local and state governments. It is true that federal response was not as fast as it could have been. The president himself has acknowledged that fact. But the press has focused on the first 48 hours of federal response, not uttering a word about the fact that New Orleans had 48 hours of warning that a major Category 4 or 5 would make landfall near the city, yet local officials apparently did little to prepare. Obviously, Gov. Blanco did not effectively deploy her state's National Guard. And New Orleans' city leaders did almost nothing to evacuate the portion of the population with no transportation. In failing to follow their own evacuation plan, these officials did little to pre-position food, water and personnel to deal with the aftermath. I was surprised Sunday to watch Tim Russert, on his show "Meet the Press," tear into Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff. During his encounter with Chertoff, Russert did not suggest once that local government had any role in dealing with the disaster. Russert also asked for Chertoff's resignation. It wasn't until after the first 29 minutes of his show – 29 minutes – that Russert raised the question of local responsibility. And when he did so with Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard, he did so in a passing way. Broussard brushed off his question with a non-answer. Broussard began his interview claiming that the nation had "abandoned" New Orleans. That is nonsense and a lie. Broussard, who was never identified by "Meet the Press" as a Democrat, spent much of his time attacking the Bush administration, as has Democratic New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin. Broussard then ended his performance as he collapsed in tears with a demand: "For God's sake, just shut up and send us somebody!" His tears didn't wash with me. My sympathies lie with the tens of thousands of people who have suffered or died because local officials like Broussard, Mayor Nagin and Governor Kathleen Blanco, also a Democrat, failed monumentally at their jobs. As former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial told Russert, the disaster in New Orleans was "foreseeable." In fact, New Orleans has long known that such a disaster could take place if a major hurricane hit the city. The municipality even prepared its own "City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." The plan makes it evident that New Orleans knew that evacuation of the civilian population was the primary responsibility of the city – not the federal government. The city plan acknowledges its responsibility in the document: As established by the City of New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response. City government shall coordinate its efforts through the Office of Emergency Preparedness. The city document also makes clear that decisions involving a proper and orderly evacuation lie with the governor, mayor and local authorities. Nowhere is the president or federal government even mentioned: The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery. The same power to order an evacuation conferred upon the Governor is also delegated to each political subdivision of the State by Executive Order. This authority empowers the chief elected official of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans, to order the evacuation of the parish residents threatened by an approaching hurricane. It is clear the city also recognized that it would need to move large portions of its population, and it would need to prepare for such an eventuality: The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed. ... Evacuation procedures for small scale and localized evacuations are conducted per the SOPs of the New Orleans Fire Department and the New Orleans Police Department. However, due to the sheer size and number of persons to be evacuated, should a major tropical weather system or other catastrophic event threaten or impact the area, specifically directed long range planning and coordination of resources and responsibilities efforts must be undertaken. [You can read New Orleans' Emergency Plan for hurricanes at its Web site: http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26] The city's plan also specifically called for the use of city-owned buses and school buses to evacuate the population. These were apparently never deployed, though the Parish of Plaquemines just south of the city evacuated its population using school buses. The plan, written well before Katrina was even a teardrop in God's eye, was obviously never heeded or implemented by local leaders. But why should the New Orleans mayor and Governor Blanco take responsibility when they can blame George Bush and the Republicans in Washington? With congressional elections fast approaching, Democrats who are out of power in every branch of the federal government know they need to change the tide quickly. They have apparently seized on the Katrina disaster to harm the president politically. Criticism of the federal government's response is fair and warranted. But putting full responsibility for this disaster on the Bush administration is way over the top. Primary responsibility for this disaster remains with local officials like Nagin and Blanco, not President Bush. (reply to this comment)

From gragon Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 07:54 (Agree/Disagree?) While I do agree with a lot of what you have said, one must also take into consideration that the major of N.O. did order the evacuation under heavy critisism of the govenor and others who acussed him of being an alarmist. If nothing had happened to N.O. it could have cost him his job. No matter what you think about his current handlings of the situation he did save hundreds of thousands of lives by that one action. There are many factors and factions to blame for the slow response, local as well as federal. IMO however it is way too earlier to play the blaming game. That is what pisses me off! It started day one when there was work to be done. There is still a tremendous amount of work to be done! People need to quit pointing their fingers, go out and get their hands dirty and fix it. There will be plenty of time for finger pointing later. Now is not the time for politics. (reply to this comment)

From steam Thursday, September 08, 2005, 19:00 (Agree/Disagree?) If the "blame game" had not started fairly early the Bush administration would not have done nearly as much to get off their asses and get the job done. Bush continued his 5 week vacation for three days after the disaster and only took the situation really seriously when it began to hit him politicaly. It is a damn good thing the "blame game" started when it did. It saved countless lives. Also next time something like this comes up, whatever politician is in power will be aware that regardless of whether he cares much for the people affected it will cost him to not take their welfare seriously. I think most people would agree that if the same situation occured in Beverly hills the initial response would have been far more substantial and effective. From here on out I am sure it is being, and will continue to be well managed, but the "blame game" contributed to that.(reply to this comment)

From gragon Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 11:13 (Agree/Disagree?) I will be the first to take back some of what I originally said about the major of N.O. The news now coming out is all pointing to him and the fact that he had an evacuation plan calling for a 72 hour advance evac. in which those who did not have the means to evacuate were to be evacuated first. Purportedly several government officials, including the president, called him as well as the govenor asking them to evacuate the city. They refused to order it until it was finally too late. Don't have a link yet as I've only been hearing this over the radio, but I'm sure there will be plenty about this in days to come. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Finally, an intelligent and researched post in this thread! The federeal system of government in the US specifically denotes local responsibility, and while I agree that Bush & the Federal government could have done more, what sickens me most is the blame game being played by the city and state leaders. These individuals were elected specifically to administer New Orleans and Louisiana, and they have spectacularly failed to do so. Now they realise their error, they are looking for someone to blame, and this has fit in nicely with the trend of Bush-bashing. They ought to own up and accept their own responsibility first!(reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Apparently your university education (which you speak of ad nauseaum) neglected to mention the definition of pleigerism. I guess the only time you manage to sound intelligent (despite an obviously wasted first rate education) is when you steal other peoples thoughts. Here's a hint: (One you missed before in my own post), Try typing repost, or some other similar word or phrase so as not to misslead the readers about the true authorship of the comment. (reply to this comment)

From Mack Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 00:04 (Agree/Disagree?) I never said I wrote the article. I didn’t put “Repost” over it what the does it matter? Do you have a rebuttal to what was posted or are you going to "site" repost for some other regurgitation you have? The post your referring to was posted along with about 6 of my own personal and professional experiences. What you have posted is only what you are seeing on TV. So have an original thought on both politics as well as the grade school humor you use. None of my articles on here are “reposts” usualy I just add the link for a response. Why you babble your brain washed ideas on this site for whar political reason I'm not quite sure of but I'm sure you don’t have a clue. I guess to let us know how frustrated you are with your own life this is why you insult people by talking about the size of their genitals. You are a sad person.(reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 08:44 (Agree/Disagree?) It matters because by not attributing the article to the true author you have made yourself a pleigerist, and your insults and attempts at deflection only show how irked you are that I pointed that out. Your pathetic.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:06 (Agree/Disagree?) Since it's the second time this word is misspelled, the word you want is plagiarist. Your closing insult should also read "You're pathetic"(reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Thanx I'll qeep it in mynd!(reply to this comment)

From ErikMagnusLehnsher Monday, September 05, 2005, 21:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said. You could have mentioned that it was written by Christopher Ruddy and posted on Newsmax (among other places) some days ago but that doesn't change the fact that it makes some valid points. Hurricane Katrina changed path and intensity within the 24 hours immediately prior to reaching the coast. There are very few people in America who expected the massive flooding and the extended lack of electricity in the area. I think it's a good thing that agencies such as FEMA can provide reinforcement during huge tragedies such as this but logistics prevent them from being everywhere at once. I think the first line of defense has to be at the State level and there were failures at that level to prepare for the worst by activating the guard and making efforts to move them closer to New Orleans. A mandatory evacuation of New Orleans was a issued but clearly some lacked the will or the means to leave. Full disclosure requires that I concede that I am registered Democrat and voted against Bush in 2004 and vehemently disagree with many of his policies. However, overall his handling of this hasn't been that bad. I think disasters like this underscore the fact that there need to be improvements at the State and Federal level that are beyond politics: The States have to do a better job protecting their people and the Feds have to be able to respond a hell of a lot faster when it's apparent that reinforcements are required.(reply to this comment)

From Nancy Monday, September 05, 2005, 20:42 (Agree/Disagree?) "Obviously, Gov. Blanco did not effectively deploy her state's National Guard." Well, that's because the third of them are in Iraq. FEMA - first word federal(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:51 (Agree/Disagree?) A 2/3 contingent is nothing to sneeze at, Nancy. Where were THEY?(reply to this comment)

From 'BamaCracker Monday, September 05, 2005, 18:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Who's responsible for building the infrastructure of the "united" states? The Mississippi River levies that were built with federal funds in the 1950s haven't been upgraded in over 40 years. In the meantime, we've borrowed and spent a bunch of money that came back to me in tax breaks. I used mine to buy groceries and a pair of new shoes. As long as we're into a borrow-and-spend mindset of liberal fiscal management, I'd rather have put that money into roads, bridges, dams, and levies. Who's responsible for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)? The subjugation of FEMA into a department under Homeland Security has pretty much crippled any federal leadership around disaster preparedness. No money forthcoming from the feds in 2005 for hurricane disaster planning in the gulf states. There was absolutely no planning whatsoever for evacuation of the immobile poor, elderly & infirm, largely because poor states like Louisiana & Mississippi don't have the resources. And where were 40% of the Louisiana & Mississippi Guard? Not just boots on the ground, but the best & brightest of the Guard leadership is defending our national energy policy in Iraq. Do you really believe the Louisiana & Mississippi Guard would still be in Iraq if that country didn't have the second largest oil reserve in the world? If you do, I've got some swampland in Alabama I'll sell you. You can put up a casino offshore and make a fortune while the locals stay dirt poor. Just be sure to contribute generously to the campaigns of the local candidates, and you'll stay in bid'ness for a long time. As long as you're putting responsibility on local political leadership, don't forget Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour. Oh, yeah. He's a Republican. I guess the lack of preparedness in his state isn't political. Never mind there's still rural towns along the Mississippi coast up to 50 miles inland that we still have no idea how they've fared in all this. Completely cut off, with no contact. I guess the bayou crackers don't make as good television as the masses of poor blacks in New Orleans. Interesting how Haley Barbour got what few Guard he could muster right down there to protect those trashed casinos. Wonder how much in campaign contributions that cost? Doesn't it bother you just a little to see the underbelly of poverty in the United States exposed like this? I don't suppose federal economic policies for the last 30 years have had anything to do with the gap between the bottom and the top income groups in this country? Care to send YOUR kids to urban or rural schools in the deep south? I am not a democrat or a republican, and I am really, truly fed up with the polarization, which is designed by political propagandists in both parties to keep ordinary people from thinking about the bigger picture. Two issues that were nowhere to be seen during the last national election: Poverty & the environment. Seems to me the borrow-and-spend republicans don't do a whole lot better than the tax-and-spend democrats when it comes to talking about the things that matter. (reply to this comment)

from ErikMagnusLehnsher Monday, September 05, 2005 - 08:53 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm generally game for Bush-bashing or at least some laughs at his expense but the author's (Steve Gilliard?) gratuitous use of phrases like "alligators are feasting on dead nigger" and "sea of alligator MRE's once known as the citizens of New Orleans" cause me to dislike him even more than Bush (despite the fact that he makes a few good points). I admittedly have a liberal leaning on most issues but his rant reeks of political opportunism and is beyond shrill. I'm left to conclude: a. He uses those phrases for shock effect b. He's the rare bird who hates Bush AND black people c. He is black Or am I missing something? (reply to this comment)

from mia1 Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:51 (Agree/Disagree?) just wondering... what is the point of fighting in Irak if we still have to pay tons of money for oil? isn't the war supposed to be about oil? (reply to this comment)

From Gothsmack Monday, September 05, 2005, 09:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Bush is an oil lord. The higher oil prices are the more revenue he makes. (reply to this comment)

From thinker711 Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 12:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Current high oil prices are largely due to a distribution problem. Our oil refineries operate a 98-99% capacity and we have not built a new one in decades. Any economist will tell you that you should not operate at maximum capacity. If OPEC increased production and sold us more oil, prices would drop some, but the oil would sit in our ports for months because we are already processing it as fast as we can. Hurricane Katrina increased oil prices in large part because it knocked out 8 refineries. Thus, in large part, our high gas prices are not due to a shortage of oil, but rather because of bad energy policy in which we have not built enough refineries to meet our need. This is largely due to extremist environmentalists, not Bush. (reply to this comment)

From Sunday, September 11, 2005, 10:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Never mind that policies which utterly disregard the health of the planet tend to galvinize these groups, which only results in compounding the problem.(reply to this comment)

From Samuel Sunday, September 04, 2005, 17:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Mia, that's because the war in Iraq was not about oil. You were mislead by the liberals. Sorry! (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 05, 2005, 13:32 (Agree/Disagree?) You're absolutely right, it was about WMD's. Oh wait, I guess it wasn't that either, that was the republicant's missleading everyone.(reply to this comment)

From Samuel Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 14:41 (Agree/Disagree?) This kind of reasoning would say that "The Book of Davidito" never existed because it hasn't turned up in any of The Family's homes recently. But we all know better than that. (reply to this comment)

From mia1 Monday, September 05, 2005, 05:31 (Agree/Disagree?) okay so since we are not in war for oil, then why the hell are we fighting in Irak, if not for oil? It makes no sense and pleeze don't tell me it's for freedom because that's a line of bull, no offense to any soldiers out there. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Sunday, September 04, 2005, 14:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Havent you heard? We're force-feeding them some fu-reedumb.(reply to this comment)

from Mack Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 00:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Grow up! And get an education if possible try to use other words in you vocabulary besides "fuck." Do you blame Bush for the thugs who rapped children at the super dome? Do you hold Bush responsible for the actions of African Americans without white supervision and police controlling their criminal actions/culture? You’re babbling off what you heard in Fahrenheit 9/11 and what I see that idiot mayor of New Orleans saying on the radio. The mayor and governor are really responsible for what needed to happen in the first 3 days after the storm. I'm sure you think OPEC and GM designed the hurricane too inorder to boost gas prices. Your article makes about as much sense as the Elvis sightings or the Lock nest monster. With your help and intellect you may be able to find OJ Simpson's wife’s killer…if not you can always blame Bush. (reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 09:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude, complain about black men rapping the other 52 weeks of the year; I think it's the RAPING you're upset about. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 12:45 (Agree/Disagree?) So a disaster is justification for general lawlessness & criminal behaviour?(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Monday, September 05, 2005, 06:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Wrong!! First off, the reason ol' W has had an "Oh shit" look on his face all week is because he personally slashed the budjet for NO to shore up their flood walls, levy's, and pumps by 90% a few years ago during his budget planning in order to have more money to start his war. 90%...in case your too drunk in your enfatuated stupor with our fearless dumbass...that's almost all of it!!! Congress restored about 10% of that but still, it's not shit, and it certainly wasn't enough as we now see. Second, he reorganized disaster response by taking power away from the states and putting it the hands of Homeland Security and FEMA. So, YES, it is his fault!! His and his entire incompetent administration. This is what happens when you put an Arabian horse trainer in charge of the nations disaster organization. And lastly, ".....the actions of African Americans without white supervision and police controlling their criminal actions/culture"....WTF?? It's nazi skinheaded bigoted racists like you who put that jackass in power in the first place, so it's partly your fault too. Live with that!! (reply to this comment)

From Mack Monday, September 05, 2005, 17:12 (Agree/Disagree?) frmrjoyish why isnt the US media reporting this? Tell me who are the racists? The British and Australian media are reporting that among those murdered are a 14 year old girl who was gang raped to death over a four hour period. A seven year old boy was raped and murdered. A seven year old girl was raped. Several witnessness reported teenage girls being raped in the bathrooms. Whites in the superdome report being verbally abused with racial slurs, threatened with murder for being white, and beaten by black mobs. "All this is being flushed down the media memory hole. In the coming weeks, these events will be covered up for political correctness." (reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 14:25 (Agree/Disagree?) The media didn't focus on the looting and rapes that went on after the tsunami.(reply to this comment)

From Nancy Monday, September 05, 2005, 18:31 (Agree/Disagree?) "When this is all over, remind people that Bush & his Republican cronies in Congress gutted the flood-control program for New Orleans, cutting the Corps of Engineers requested $105 million to $40 million while they insisted on tax cuts for the richest Americans and pork spending like $231 million for a bridge to an uninhabited Alaskan island." 30% of the Gulf Coast National Guard is in the middle east. Something is amiss! I'm all with you about supporting our government and troops, Mack, but this is one where our government screwed up big time and it resulted in huge loss of life. What is government and all those taxes the middle class pays for anyway if not to fund federal natural disaster relief. The administration created the environment in which all of this was bound to happen, therefore, they are responsible for the results. It's called proximate causation.(reply to this comment)

From thinker711 Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 12:48 (Agree/Disagree?) I read somewhere that oversight of Louisiana levies is extremely political and archaic where there is a separate governing board for each levy. None of them want to given up their control to a centralized system and this has stifled the ability to made changes in the past since every change has to go through individual governing boards. So, a large part of the problem is the Louisiana political system, not the federal government. Also, if you are going to blame Bush for not funding levy projects, you have to blame Congress first since Bush can only sign in to law what Congress sends him. The media is far too quick to blame Bush, when in fact there are many parties to blame including state and local officials. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 17:33 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree completely! The largely republican congress is very much responsible for this matter as well.(reply to this comment)

From thinker711 Thursday, September 08, 2005, 09:02 (Agree/Disagree?) I just heard today (I think it was in the Washington Post) that the levee that broke was not slated to be repaired. There was no proposal in the budget request to repair or perform maintenance to the levee that broken. Thus, the money that Congress cut from the Corps of Engineers budget would not have repaired that levee anyway. The levee would have broke regardless of whether Congress and Bush granted the Corps of Engineers their full budget request or not. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Fair enough, 30% of the National Guard were in Iraq... but the question is, where were the other 70%? Why weren't they out doing exactly what it is their paid for at the time it was needed most?(reply to this comment)

From Mack Monday, September 05, 2005, 19:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Where is all the money from casinos tourism and oil in LA going? It didn’t go to the flood protection, and yes what protection they did have was built by the feds. Why is the state not maintaining them? It’s a case of poor leadership and spending problems on a state level. If it weren’t you would have seen some of the same type of violence and destruction going on in Florida after five hurricanes hit the state, but you didn’t one reason is because they had good leadership. And to talk about gutting a system it was the Clinton administration who gutted our security system by taking CIA agents out of the field and cutting back on defense spending, as well as virtually ending the "Sky Marshal" program. There are so many factors which played a role leading to 9/11 all I will mention were from the democratic side. I couldn’t mention them all even if I were to write a book about it. It just goes to show how ignorant the some people are to blame the President for a natural disaster. It’s like the people in the super dome beating any white person they could get there hands on or killing the National Guards man who was inside trying to keep the peace. In that thugs mind it was governments/white peoples fault and so they took their anger out on who they could find. One area which hasn’t been mentioned here is how the local government created an environment where low life people could breed and live off of tax dollars from the rich and the states budget. Because of these lowlife some Europeans are calling Louisiana a "welfare state" and it is true they were rewarded by the Governor with welfare checks for not working. These are the same people who were using crack and victimizing each other at the super dome. The same ones the NOLA police couldn’t handle in the super dome. That is truly a liberal government created problem. Where the government rewards crack worse who have children with money and a place to live so that in turn they have more welfare babies who are then victimized and sold as sex slaves on the street to support their drug habits. Then these children grow up hating white people the police the government pretty much biting the hand that feeds them. These are the true root of Americas and NOLAs problems socialism and the population growth of an underworld of darkness which if allowed to continue will cause America to be a 3rd world country in the next 50 years. As you know some neighborhoods and cities have already become today. (reply to this comment)

From ErikMagnusLehnsher Monday, September 05, 2005, 21:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Last time I checked, Welfare was a Federal program. I could be wrong because I fortunately have never been a beneficiary of it but I don't think Governors are choosing to give out these checks on a State by State basis. I think they have to reach a level as determined by the "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996" signed by Bill Clinton. Last week I read the following quote justifying the looting of Televisions, etc.: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9131493/ “To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it’s an opportunity to get back at society,” he said. I think this quote accurately reflects the type of attitudes that some poorer Americans have and I think we both disagree with this type of entitlement. However, I resent the fact that you are continually inserting race into the issue. A strong case can be made against entitlement but it has nothing to do with race. (reply to this comment)

From Mack Monday, September 05, 2005, 16:32 (Agree/Disagree?) What fantasy world do you live in? Walk down the street of any black neighborhood in any large city in the US. Go to LA, Chicago, Raleigh, Sacramento, to name just a few I have lived in and see how long you last. Its people like you I wish had the opportunity to see some of the victims of in these cities that I have seen. For example the look on a dead old white woman’s face who was rapped and left for dead in a parking lot after she got out of her car was robbed and killed by a black man. Or the 3 “black” children who were reported being rapped in the restroom at the super dome while thousands of blacks stood by and let it happen out of fear of other blacks. Or the group of 30 white British students who were in fear for their lives huddled together for 4 days in the super dome with the women on the inside of the circle. You will find that article at; http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news3.shtml You are the typical sheltered white ignorant American who thinks because they have been to a few places and watch the news they know it all. Get real. And easy on the name calling. I don’t hate any race I only spoke the truth of what was going on in NOLA and if you want to look at it as a poor vs. rich issue go ahead. But when its you getting the shit beat out of you in broad daylight for being white (as was the case for two white people were in NOLA after refusing to give 8 blacks men and women money) then come talk to me. (reply to this comment)

From vacuous Thursday, September 08, 2005, 15:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, there were unconfirmed rapes in the Superdome, but, why are you so dishonest? "Little girls were raped while thousands of people just stood by and watched"? Who are you trying to kid and why the over exaggeration?(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 05:23 (Agree/Disagree?) "...typical sheltered white ignorant American" is hardly a term that accurately describes me. And no, I don't form my opinions based on the news! That is ignorant. What is equally ignorant, or hateful..whichever term you prefer...is using a few instances to justify your racist attitude towards an entire ethinicity and culture. You are using nothing more than the typical deflection tactics used by the white supremacist law makers in the 50's and 60's when trying to make the case against civil rights for people who happen to be black. They blew up the instances of crime against whites meanwhile ignoring or downplaying the massive frequency of murders, lynchings, oppresion, and general suffering of and entire population of blacks caused by whites. Whether this suffering was deliberate or just caused by people who didn't care enough to do something about it doesn't matter, it still happened. It saddens me to know that even now in the 21st century there are people who think like you. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Mack seems to have more of a problem with the word fuck and the jocular use of the term "small dick" than he has with the racism that obviously permeates his entire existance. Call him on it, and most likely you'll get some spun tale about his superior education (not that it's ever apparent) and the same old tired babble meant to insult the ex-cultie. Don't mind him. He has what we like to call the napoleon complex.(reply to this comment)

From Mack Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 06:29 (Agree/Disagree?) No one said the truth was nice or politically correct. Yes it is sad there are people like you who call others racists for stating facts. Unlike you I use proof to back what I say for a start the Uniformed Crime Report on the FBIs own web site, which as I explained in the past is designed to place Hispanics in a "white" category thus making it look like whites commit more crime than what is actually the case. The rest of what I said was based on what is really going on in society in the US today and the media wont report it because if they did report the truth like the UK does in its news they may be called "racist" by idiots like you. So as I stated before I hope one day you can feel what the victims of these hate crime have felt. As for what ever happened in the 1950s does not justify actions of people today. It is horrible that whites in America owned slaves and treated blacks and nonwhites badly. People who commit hate crimes should be held responsible for their actions and punished harshly. And I’m sure white hate crime goes on today but this does not justify innocent whites being attacked for being white. What does a lynching in the 50s for a criminal have to do with blacks and whites being beaten raped and killed in daylight by a “culture” as you put it today? Don’t babble about what happened in the 1950s to me as if it were yesterday I wasn’t even alive then and neither were you. I’m talking about today and why these racist actions are not being addressed in our media. Why isn’t Jesse Jackson or All Sharpton speaking out against hate crimes committed on whites especially those who were there to help the victims of the hurricane? Why are they inciting more hate? Here is a link from a NY times article where black leadership is motivating and inspiring hate crimes against whites? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05race.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1126011840-fWgsfJTI8D1sJK9eFOpnLg Why is America today allowing this? And why are you calling the truth racism? Wake up, and yes you are a typical sheltered white American female, perhaps not from sexual abuse as you may have experienced in the Family but from where American society is going today. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 14:47 (Agree/Disagree?) Stop twisting what I say! It doesn't make you look like any less a racist. I wasn't saying what happened in the 50's was yesterday. I was pointing out the fact that your tired old racist drivel as been used throughout history to deflect from the fact that we have a racial problem in this country and whites are far from on the shitty end of this problem. We have a ever growing divide between the have's and the have-not's. Unfortunately, a disproportionately large percent of the have-not's are black. Yet you get yourself all worked up about a small percentage of whites being victimized by blacks in the chaos following Katrina, meanwhile I haven't heard one bit of sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of blacks who died and are suffering as a result. Because they had no money, no transportation, no way to get out....because the were poor. And they were poor because they were born black. That's the truth! You can copy and paste as many articles as you want but it won't change a damn thing. Of course any crime against anyone is intolerable but I'm sick of people like you blowing up what are rare instances and ignoring the real racial problems in America. Until you and yours get your heads out of your ass and can see the whole picture, there will always be racial tension in this country in which a few whites and many blacks will suffer. (reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 14:29 (Agree/Disagree?) There many opportunities for racial minorities today, especially in education. Obviously being born into poverty is difficult, but minorities who blame all their problems on whites will never get ahead. Universities are dying to increase minority enrollments and there are countless scholarships and financial aid programs targeted at minority students. All they have to do is want it and pursue it. I’m not saying racism does not exist in America, but using racism as an excuse for failure does not benefit anybody and will only prolong the racial inequality in America and reinforce negative stereotypes. It only takes one generation to break the cycle of poverty, and this has to be done by the individual. You wrote: "they were poor because they were born black" Millions of whites are born poor and millions of blacks are born well off. In America, your life is what you make of it. Obviously some are more advantaged and have a better starting point, but anyone can be successful, and in many ways it is easier for minorities to overcome poverty than whites because there are more opportunities for them. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 16:37 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree with most of what you said. There is responsibility at both a societal level and an individual level. But something has to be said for the fact that the USA, the wealthiest country in the world, has one of the highest poverty rates in the developed world. Are you telling me that the fact that the majority of blacks live below or hovering just above the poverty line is because all of them are lazy and just want handouts? There is an institutional problem with poverty in this country, and yes, it is partly based on the racial history in this country. Probably due to the fact that people shut their eyes and ears and chalk it all up to "the lazy blacks who all think they're entitled to out tax dollar handouts". Sorry, but I don't buy it. Yes, there are opportunities. Most of these "opportunities" are available in the form of welfare, which is available to both whites and blacks. State and Federal secondary education grants, besides some private grants and scholarships, are based strictly on income and available to all. The problem is when you grow up in a crappy neighborhood with poorly funded schools, then get a shitty education, get passed on the the next grade just to shore up the schools graduation rates so they won't miss out on the practically non-existant funding, you get people who come out of poor schools who can barely read and write let alone be prepared to go to college. The problem is systemic. I'm not saying that whites wake up everyday and say "I think I'm gonna oppress some black people today". It's not that cut and dry, black and white, good or bad, lazy and hardworking....whatever! Until people can learn to think a little more in the abstract and stop expecting everything to be so simple nothing will get solved. (reply to this comment)

From Nick Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 15:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Exactly! So what if you were born poor with no education. That’s no reason to stay like that! I came to the US when I was 18 and as you all know I had no education in the fam and off course my parents were not rich or even in the same country. So instead of claiming welfare I got 2 jobs in the mall working 6 days a week to slowly build my life. By the time I was 23 I had a good career, bought a house, had two new cars in the driveway and my kid was in a good school. I prob had it worse because I didn’t even have any family to lean on. So what’s their excuse??? (reply to this comment)

From Headspun Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 16:10 (Agree/Disagree?) A white british boy claims to have had it worse than the offspring of slaves... now there's a new one!(reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 14:36 (Agree/Disagree?) U.S. citizens who want unbiased information on climate change can access it through any number of popular science websites and television channels. My favorites are National Geographic & Discovery, because they also have television channels and magazines. The disaster in New Orleans is not the direct result of the hurricane. The gulf coast has been battered by category-5 hurricanes many times in the history of the U.S. However, there was recent a study published in the Journal of Insurance shwonig that while the number of hurricanes has not changed in the last 50 years, that the intensity and amount of water they carry has. Because the U.S. insurance industry now perceives a huge financial stake in the issue of climate change, we will be hearing from true conservative Republican politicians rather than the flaming liberals like Bush. What really caused the devastation is the environmental degredation of the wetlands (swamps) in that part of the U.S. These wetlands always acted like a sponge sopping up the water when hurricanes came. These wetlands no longer exist due to irresponsible economic development. The swamps were drained, barracaded by levies, and buildings put up on land that has been sinking below sea level ever since. The land sank for several reasons: 1) the water was removed, 2) the natural flooding of the Mississippi River is kept out by the levies, therefore no silt deposits occurs to rebuild the land, 3) oil & gas are also being pumped out of the deeper layers of bedrock, which may also have contributed to the sinking. States like Louisiana, Mississippi & Alabama are very poor compared to other regions of the country. Most, if not all, of the devastation of the wetlands in that part of the world has been driven by the desire to increase in the flow of tourist dollars and to support the offshore oil drilling & onshore refineries that make up 10% of U.S. oil. These states need to look at their land use and economic development policies and consider how to use the newer, more expensive technologies that allow for more responsible and equitable development of the region. (reply to this comment)

From moon beam Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 13:32 (Agree/Disagree?) Damn right! My heart breaks for all those lost and for the survivors of this tragedy. Does anybody know when they will hold the 3 min's silence? (reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:17 (Agree/Disagree?) So you shop in the NY times for the truth? The problem is becoming more evident.(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, September 08, 2005, 09:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Believe it or not, the NY Times is one of the most respected sources for unbiased news anywhere in the world.(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, September 08, 2005, 15:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Not!(reply to this comment)

From xolox Sunday, September 04, 2005, 00:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Mack, while you're busy touting the benefits of an education you might want to go fetch one of those for yourself. Or perhaps you just need glasses. The first word of this entire post is found at the top and reads (quite simply) REPOST! Get it? The reason I RE-posted this here is I found it quite humorous, and yet, it seemed to fit better in the political section. Anyway, I don't know what exactly is your major malfunction, and I really don't care. Asshat! (see? I do know other words!) (reply to this comment)

From Whatever.... Thursday, September 08, 2005, 10:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Mack get an education? Dude, you don't even have a high school diploma!(reply to this comment)

From Mack Monday, September 05, 2005, 17:16 (Agree/Disagree?) I have an education thank you. I'm not just referring to the University degrees I have either. Unlike your education which is the television. I have institution and real world experiences in the areas I speak about. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Typical of an ignorant idiot to make assumtions about someone you've never met. I find television irritating at best, and I never watch the news. If you're so hell bent on making a complete ass of yourself, I would suggest that you just go back to worshiping the Bush trinity you're so infatuated with. (reply to this comment)

From just a thought Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:49 (Agree/Disagree?) 'and I never watch the news' - could that maybe be the problem?(reply to this comment)

From ack Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Watching and reading are two wildly different things my anonymous commentator.(reply to this comment)

From 'wildly' different?!? Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 01:04 (Agree/Disagree?) They are each media by which one can visually receive updates on current events. Ideally - whichever media chosen - one would also engage their brain in the process.(reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Ideally, one would also choose the media which doesn't rely on repetitive shock value deliveries to form a bias in the more feeble minded of the viewers. Why the anonymity? (reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:25 (Agree/Disagree?) P.S. And yes, they are wildly different in the way that Brittney Spears is no Bach, or if you prefer, in the way that watching a movie is not the same as reading a book. I urge you to use your own brain_I trust you have one_So I won't be compelled to continuously state the obvious.(reply to this comment)

From engaged brain Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 09:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Let's not confuse the media with the message.(reply to this comment)

From xolox Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 17:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Let's not be so thick as to suggest that the bearer of a message has no effect on the content.(reply to this comment)

From sassy Tuesday, September 06, 2005, 10:09 (Agree/Disagree?) We all know that Music is the Message, Music is the Key! :) (reply to this comment)

From Lance Sunday, September 04, 2005, 02:49 (Agree/Disagree?) Damn it! I accidently erased a two paragraph response. But I couldn't agree with you more Xolox! There is something terribly wrong with this administration when they spend 250 billion dollars killing our soldier overseas for oil profits(lets face it people! That's what it really is.) But we can't deal with the immediate threat of something like Katrina. I hate to sound like a cynic but isn't that what the department of homeland security was set up for in the first place? Sounds to me like someone is going to lose their job for this -or worse! Bush dismissed the war at home a long time ago; there are so many issues to be worked out on the home front and sadly Katrina has only left an example of our ALL of America has become stranded by this dim-witted, over zealous and idiotic president. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. -Samuel Johnson (reply to this comment)

From xolox Sunday, September 04, 2005, 14:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, according to some sources, the emergency response setup was deemed quite adecuate for the region until Bush cut funding three years in a row. The hurricane threat is nothing new to N.O. and specific request were made to remedy the levy situation. (The man who issued the request lost his job for it). The issue is compounded by folding these existing agencies into the umbrella of homeland security, who seem to have better experience anouncing what's the new color of the month, than any real expertise in dealing with catastophes. As expected, the current administration is shrugging off any suggestion that the Iraqi hemmorage of troops and money has made near impossible an already difficult situation. To any conservatives out there: If I were you I'd be wearing my parties color on my face right about now. (reply to this comment)

From roughneck Sunday, September 04, 2005, 16:59 (Agree/Disagree?) "To any conservatives out there: If I were you I'd be wearing my parties(sic) color on my face right about now." Tough words indeed, coming from someone who's apoplectically cyanotic at the moment... Breathe, man, breathe! ;) Incidentally, the word you're looking for above is "levee". A "levy" is money collected to (perhaps) build a levee, -which is the water-containment structure you're referring to. I know, I know, homophones suck, and I will never get laid (et cetera). (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 05, 2005, 13:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Ok, my bad. Got any other big word to compensate for your small dick?(reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:29 (Agree/Disagree?) P.S. Homophones... ROFL. I dig that.(reply to this comment)

From Mack Monday, September 05, 2005, 16:35 (Agree/Disagree?) No surprise xolox has resorted to high school name calling. The above statement you made says it all about your thought process and education level. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, September 05, 2005, 23:23 (Agree/Disagree?) One typewritten line tells all about a man? Interesting, you should run along and catch up with whatever circus train you fell off of, you'll have a hard time peddling your clairvoyance anywhere else.(reply to this comment)

From Had enough!!! Thursday, September 08, 2005, 09:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Circus train?!?!? Lets step back here and look at the difference between you and Mack. What pisses me off the most is how people like myself and Mack are usually hard working, successful members of society that build our own lives as well as contribute to the community. People like us respect and agree with a government that leans towards capitalism and an environment that rewards hard work NOT handouts for anyone that wants to sit on their ass all day. Then there are people like you. You really don't do fuck all with you life but try to act all smart and spout off a few lines from Fahrenheit 9/11 and try to conjure up conspiracies theories of how Air force One actually caused the hurricane with it's secret jet pack or how Bush blew up the levies in NO because he wanted to kill all blacks in NO. Lets compare your life to the "circus train" that Mack fell off... Mac has dedicated his life to serving this country, was a Marine for 8 years, a cop for a few years, has a BA and a few degrees. In the process he has also worked hard to better his own life, bought a house and pulled himself up in society. (I don't know you personally Mac, but that’s the info I hear about you.) Then we have you, dear xolox. What have you done with your life??? Besides sitting on your ass all day smoking pot, never having much of real job, or at least a job that a 27yr old could be proud of. Never bought a house for your family. Yes you still proceed to bash Mack because your pissed that us Republicans won the election TWICE... (reply to this comment)

From xolox Thursday, September 08, 2005, 11:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Stole It the first time asshole, won it the second because america does not usually switch presidents in the middle of a war, even an illegal one. Which is tantamount to theivery by default. I don't know about jet packs, or bush's jesus like capacity to manipulate storms, or even your asinine sence of sarcasm. What I do know is that I am proud of my independence of your rat race. I'm not for a moment ashamed of my refusal to be just another idiot in that machine, always stepping on those below to suck the dick of those above... you can keep it! And some retarded regurgitation of hearsay from someone too cowardly to use his real persona while throwing stones won't faze me. I don't smoke pot all day, as you ignorantly put it, and I can't imagine how you purport to make comparisons about my life since you don't know me. And by your own admission you don't know Mack. So once again you opine from behind a mask of anonimity, and from a diposition of ignorance and hearsay. If I bash Mack, it has less to do with his republican't leanings than the fact that the first thing he said upon entering this conversation was confrontational, and intended as an insult. As far as your worship of any and all who do military service I say this; In the words of a man by the name of Henry David Thoreau: "Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice. A common and natural result of an undue respect for the law is, that you may see a file of soldiers, colonel, captain, privates, powder-monkeys, and all, marching in admirable order over hill and dale to the wars, against their wills, ay, against their common sence and consciences, which makes it very steep marching indeed, and produces a palpitation of the heart. (made yours palpitate) They have no doubt that it is a damnable business in which they are concerned; they are all peacebly inclined. Now what are they? Men at all? or small movable forts and magazines, at the service of some unscrupulous man in power? (who you voted for) Visit the navy yard, and behold a marine, such a man as an American government can make, or such as it can make a man with it's black arts-a mere shadow and reminicence of humanity, a man laid out alive and standing, and already, as one may say, buried under arms with funeral accompaniment, though it may be- Not a drum was heard, not a funeral note, As his corse to the rampart we hurried; Not a soldier discharged his farewell shot O'er the grave where out hero was buried. The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise of the judgment or the moral sence; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt. They have the same worth only as horses and dogs. Yet such as these even are esteemed good citizens. Others- as most legislators, polititians, lawyers, ministers, and office holders- serve the state chiefly with their heads; and, as they rarely make any moral distinctions, they are as likely to serve the devil, without intending it, as god. A very few, as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sence, and MEN, serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are commonly treated as enemies by it. A wise man will only be useful as a man, and will not submit to be "clay," and "stop a hole to keep the wind away," but will leave that office to his dust at least- I am too high-born to be propertied, To be a second at control, Or useful serving-man and instrument To any sovereign state throughout the world. He who gives himself entirely to his fellow-men appears to them useless and selfish; but he who gives himself partially to them is pronounced a benefactor and philathropist. How does it become a man to behave toward the American government today? I answer, that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it." I trust you read this in High School?(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, September 08, 2005, 14:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Getting good at the cut and paste aren’t you. :) BTW, I am just curious, what is it that you do for a living?(reply to this comment)

From xolox Thursday, September 08, 2005, 15:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Not really, typed that actually. Though if I could have found the passage online it would have saved a few minutes. I work at a restaurant, a nice one, best wine list in town for 2004. Great eating if you happen to be a foodie. (the new chef is yet to be tried and proven, we'll see though). You?(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, September 09, 2005, 09:05 (Agree/Disagree?) I'll start with a Spanish red, what does the house recommend?(reply to this comment)

From Friday, September 09, 2005, 08:33 (Agree/Disagree?) So your a waiter?(reply to this comment)

From manager Friday, September 09, 2005, 11:23 (Agree/Disagree?) No, he's the busboy(reply to this comment)

From Had enough... Thursday, September 08, 2005, 11:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Actually, I do know you. BTW, I love your excuse for your lazy not wanting to do anything with your life crap... "I'm not for a moment ashamed of my refusal to be just another idiot in that machine". LMAO. You sound like that guy that lives in the woods behind my house. Sour grapes I say. Whatever dude, you keep telling yourself whatever it is that helps your uneducated ass sleep at night.(reply to this comment)

From xolox Thursday, September 08, 2005, 13:51 (Agree/Disagree?) You're so full of shit I can smell it from here. Sour grapes, strange rendezvous with old men in the woods... lol, yeah I think I know you too.(reply to this comment)

From xolox Wednesday, September 07, 2005, 17:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Let me clarify something for your benefit Mack. The (admitedly tasteless) penile joke was meant to illustrate what vein I considered his remark to be in. Obviously I've never met the man, and even if I had I assure you the size of his penis would remain an uninteresting mystery to me. I must say that I get the feeling from your constant horn tooting, that while your studies have made you an educated man, they have failed miserably at making you a smart one. Or maybe you're just in the habit of deliberately missing the subtlety of points you dissagree with. Whatever the case, it matters so little as to be inconsequential.(reply to this comment)

From free association Sunday, September 04, 2005, 11:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Hm, I guess that means the cult hasn't yet reached its last refuge.(reply to this comment)