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from moon beam Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 11:40 (Agree/Disagree?) With my own conscience and after years of thought, research and reasoning, I found religion to be ridiculous because it stops free thought, reason, and rationality. (I didn't reject it due to a religious upbringing) Religion is the cause of fanaticism, hatred, racism, bloodshed, conflict. Humanism can only make people humane and make the world livable. I believe in individual achievement (rather than relying on a god or his spirit to move in you) and the emphasis of life in this world, as opposed to preparation for life in the next, which is stresed by religion. Christianity also disambowls you so you feel you cannot possibly add anything or acheive something of merit, as it is dependant on God. I also favor a society and educational system in which those of any religion or those of none can feel comfortable as long as they are not aggressive or separatist. Why a humanist? I'll answer in terms of Blaise Pascal's Wager. The 17th century French philosopher said, in effect, live well but accept religious faith. "If I lost," he wrote. "I would have lost little: If I won I would have gained eternal life." I turned the Wager around: if fear and hope and reason dictate that you must accept a faith, do so, but treat this world as if there is none other. (reply to this comment)

From exister Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 12:49 (Agree/Disagree?) With regard to the Mssr. Pascal: his wager is preposterous because it's premise is false. "I would have lost little?" WTF? What about a lifetime of free thought, and as I have mentioned before, amazing debauchery. I like your compromise version though. The term "Learned Helplessness" comes to mind regarding religion. When I was in the military I saw many military members who essentially learned to be helpless as a result of the warm, tight embrace of Mother Military. Likewise with religion. All of your existential crises are addressed (nevermind that the solutions make no fucking sense), and you feel the sweet embrace of a loving god, who will protect you and give meaning to your existence, unless you screw up, in which case he will squash you like a cockroach! If this were a relationship I would say that you are a battered woman and God is an abuser.(reply to this comment)

From moon beam Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 13:15 (Agree/Disagree?) *He* may also "squash you like a cochroch" even if you don't screw up. (reply to this comment)

From exister Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 13:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Here I was hoping you would say *She* as cruel, capricious females are so much more interesting than males.(reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 13:50 (Agree/Disagree?) What is it, the smell?(reply to this comment)

From moon beam Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 12:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Likewise about the military. And yes I also made the connection between a "battered woman and her abuser." Agreed also, that the "solutions don't make any sense" (reply to this comment)

from Cosmicblip Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 10:33 (Agree/Disagree?) I can't believe no one has replied to or discussed this. That's exactly how I felt after reading the Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I still feel that way. Funny, though, that it's easier for me to feel this way than it is for me to live my life this way. (reply to this comment)

From exister Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 10:42 (Agree/Disagree?) I still get goosebumps every time I read it. Perhaps it doesn't resonate with very many exers yet. I suspect for those of us who suffered the worst abuses God is the least of their demons. I think that we as a population are some of the best equipped people on the planet to experiment with the application of secular humanism in a social context. The reason I think this is that the courage required to reject God and become your own moral authority can most easily be mustered by those who have seen what a tool for abuse and evil God can be. I hope that this awareness can motivate us to strike him from our world view and free our minds from his debilitating influences. Just say no to magical thinking!(reply to this comment)

From moon beam Tuesday, April 12, 2005, 10:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Amen!(reply to this comment)