|
|
 |
|
Getting On : All My Politics
The Jewish Question | from Mir - Wednesday, April 23, 2003
accessed 2474 times I wondered whether anyone else thought this was one of the hidden reasons for the war. Bush trying to get the US in a strategic position in order to protect Israel, their ally in the Middle East. Dont get me wrong, I believe that Israel has the right to exist as a nation. I remember when I was growing up in the COG I was scared of the "Jews" because of Bergs weird hatred of them, but since Ive left and had the opportunity to read, I cant help but admire the Jewish race for their resilience, determination and intelligence.
Im not saying that I agree with everything they do, but I think it shows an extraordinary strength of character for all those thousands of Jews who in the last 60 or so years have left their host homes to go to Israel which is full of suicide bombers and terrorist groups. Not all of the Jews who have "exodused" or done "aliyah" come from poor countries. A lot of them are from Europe and North America.
I wondered what you guys thought about the Jews now that we are out, grown up and able to make up our own minds |
|
|
|
|
Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from documentary.
Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 07:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
http://www.honestmediatoday.com/who_brought_the_slaves_to_america.htm
(reply to this comment)
|  From documentary.
Friday, June 27, 2008, 09:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/11/10.html
The Judaic Role in the Black Slave Trade
Presented by Michael A. Hoffman II
Prof. Tony Martin
In this brilliant foray into the hidden dimensions of the chronicle of black servitude, Tony Martin, professor of African History at Wellesley College, lectures on the role of Judaics in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, and the impact of racist rabbinic texts on the formation of the contemptuous view of Africans which led to the justification of their enslavement. Dr. Martin's speech is introduced by Michael A. Hoffman II who provides insight on recent scholarly developments concerning the "Curse of Ham."
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jailbird
Friday, June 27, 2008, 15:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
More than likely nonsense.
With very few exceptions the Jews have always been at the forefront of every movement for positive social change throughout history. From the abolition of slavery, to the civil rights movement in the states where several young Jewish activists were murdered as a result of standing up for the under-dogs of thir day, to the women's rights movement etc. ...
Also, "Rabbinic text" are not cannon or considered devine in Jewish Religious law, and more than an off by one comment by some right wing extremist Christian minister promoting something like say. .., the assassination of foreign leaders, or the idea that hurricanes are due to the sins of gays in a particular region.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from stay away
Monday, May 12, 2003 - 22:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
If you spotted 2 drunk guys fighting over who had the right to piss on a certain spot, would you jump in and and try to be a peacemaker? Or would you figure that if they are stupid enough to fight over something like that... then just "let it be".
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Anthony
Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 16:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
The "other Jewish Question" I've often asked is "in light of the holocaust, why are some many Jews religious." And while searching the web for "Jewish Atheism" I found some rather interesting links; but there just aren't that many, not that I could find. Apparently, some people consider themselves "cultural jews." Technically there isn't a Jewish race, per se, and the term "race" itself is dubious, at best.
I hope we never have a holocaust again, but I must say that given the nature of human beings, as we all are, the oppressed can and often quickly become the oppressors, given the chance.
The following link may to read to some as "one big racist/anti-Semitic flame." But I thought it was rather interesting that many of the quotes come from Jewish people and Jewish holy books, including the first 5 books of the Bible:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/judaismcomments.htm http://www.truthbeknown.com/judaismcomments.htm">http://www.truthbeknown.com/judaismcomments.htm>
The site is obviously "skewed" or very aware of its own "purpose," and as such, I don't fully endorse it nor all of its contents.
(reply to this comment)
| from Mir
Friday, May 09, 2003 - 06:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
Frmjoyish:
Who the hell wants to live in a country were you're likely to get blown up if you go out for a pizza even if that pizza is 30% cheeper?
Israel was a waste land, almost uninhabitable when the Jewish People returned... It just seems to me that the Arabs are jealous and they don't want the Jewish people to have anything of their own. Did you know that Palestinian refugees get treated like shit in countries like Jordan? Other Arab nations with plenty of land refuse point blank to help their "brothers".
(reply to this comment)
| From K.
Friday, May 09, 2003, 17:01
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I doubt that "the Arabs[WOOPS-I mean't Arabians] are jealous" of Israel, just pissed right off with the west's obvious double standards.
The Palestinian's are loosing their land and want to fight to keep it. You couldn't abuse a girl if her strong protective father was looking on-you wouldn't dare. Palestine has no such protector. The UK has failed in their post war duty to protect Palestine, instead it prefers to support the U.S in it's unlimited ambition to stockpile Israel in nuclear and other weapons. Jordan, Afganistan and Saudi are on the pay role as Irak will become-Irak did send fighters to aide Palestine before they were invaded.
If you look at the map you can see the stratigic positions the US now occupies, all for the oil and to safeguard their only barely leggal foothold in the middle east. The land used to be perfect babylonian farmland untill western so called democracies decided it would be better for the people if Italy grew the tomatoes and the farmer and his kids in Iran should sow nike trainers in appalling conditions for a penny a trainer. When the company decides it wants two trainers for a penny what rights do they have? ZIP they have the right to remain silent,starve{as they no longer have a working farm}and work their butts off for the greedy west. Or flee abroad, or set up a dictatorship which keeps the west out.[Syria]
You take away a man's pride and his army with which to fight {no ones saying you shouldn't fight for your rights] the conventional way, he has no escape but to use unconventional methods, suicide bombers. (reply to this comment) |
| | From frmrjoyish
Friday, May 09, 2003, 09:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Afer WWII, the British, (who controlled the land in question) partitioned out a part of land to become the State of Israel as well as land that was to be Palestine. In the early '70's Israel invaded Palestine and took control. It's no different from what Saddam did to Kuwait. If the US allows one nation to invade another (with plenty of monetary support I might add) and goes to war when another does the same thing, how can that be fair or just? That is the only question I'm raising.
Of course I don't support suicide bombers, but someone once said that terrorism is only a symptom of the problem and not the disease itself (I'm sorry I can't remembe the exact person on this site who said that at the moment in order to give them proper credit). Everyone, Jews and Palestineans deserve to live as safe a life as possible. I just think that the Israeli governments policies are contributing to the peace problems that's all.
I do agree with you that the Arab world is basically leaving all the "fixing" up to the US and not offering any real solutions to the problem. This leaves the door open for extremists like Bin Laden to suck up immpressionable young people to follow his version of a certain religion (ring any bells????????). (reply to this comment) |
| | From Mir
Friday, May 09, 2003, 10:10
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Lots of things that have happened to the Jewish people was unfair and unjust as well. I don't blame a downtroden and mal-treated people for fighting tooth and nail for a little scrap of Land to call home, (which in ancient times was their home after all) Was anyone else in the world going to offer them a place to live? I don't think so! Especially not the Arabs! Life is unfair and unjust. Look what happened to us! I'm afraid that I have no sympathy at all for Arab terrorists- What the hell have they got to bitch about? They've got tons of land and tons of money. Why don't they share it with their poorer brothers the Palestinians?(reply to this comment) |
| | From frmrjoyish
Friday, May 09, 2003, 14:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
Mir: So lets say some Arabs decided to give land to the Palestineans. They all pack up and move out of the territories Israel took over. If Israel were to decide they want this land too and invade again would this be right? Where does one draw the line? Seems to me that because Jews were persecuted in the past, which of course was wrong, that this gives the carte blance to do whatever they want now. There have got to be some limits set other wise any country can go take over another one based on the precedents set by Israel and the current US governments policies. I don't disagree with you on everything you said, I just don't think that past persecution gives a certain nationality the right to then go persecute another. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Mir
Friday, May 09, 2003, 14:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
Frmrjoyish: You are absolutely right. Two wrongs don't make a right in any language! And if the Arabs were to give land to Palestinians and Israel were to invade it they would most definately be in the wrong! I must admit Frmrjoyish, I'm not an expert on all the ins and outs on the subject, I just find it interesting. That's all! (reply to this comment) |
| | from Alf
Friday, May 09, 2003 - 06:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
Surely everyone is aware that the answer to the jewish question was the final solution.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From frmrjoyish
Friday, May 09, 2003, 14:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Mir: If you can't debate a topic like a mature adult without getting all huffy and puffy over it then you shouldn't ask for opinions on a topic that you know is controversial and bound to stir up very different opinions. There are different sides to every story and just because you feel one way doesn't mean that another persons opinion does not have certain valid points. I've tried to make it clear that I see where you are coming from. It seems to me like not having an open mind enough to even entertain the idea that an opinion different than your own may be valid is the epitomy of "elitest, narrow minded and misguided".... and yes, it rings lots of bells!!!!!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | from frmrjoyish
Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 23:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree with you on that Jews seem to be strong and resilient as a people and they deserve a country of their own. I do not, however, agree with the way they obtained their land. They stole land from the Palestinean people plain and simple. When other countries do this we go to war. There is a double standard when it comes to Israel and I'm not really sure why. I know they are a democracy, but the US's conditions for maintaining diplomatic relations and foreign aid policies have never been contingent on that.
I don't think the war was fought for the reasons you state, but there has been an issue raised by the Israeli government about an old oil pipeline. I believe it runs through Syria or Jordan. Iraq cut Israel off from this supply many years ago. If this pipeline were to be able to supply Israel with oil again, then the cost of living in Israel would decrease by somewhere around 30%. Now, of course, the Arab nations would be up in arms if the Iraq war were to benefit Israel in any way, so I'm not quite sure how this is all goona play out. Guess we'll have to wait and see!!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | From no it's not
Friday, May 09, 2003, 15:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
If it was/is from a sense of responsibility for not having stopped Hitler and his armies sooner then why don't we still feel that same sense of responsibility towards all of the other minorities that he killed in much the same way as the Jews. Look at the gypsies, we don't give them a penny and they were just as persecuted by Hitler as the Jews were and they don't have "a land of their own either". More Polish people were killed in concentration camps than Jewish people. And God only knows how many Russians, etc, etc, etc.
I'm not saying the Palestinians are right and the Jewish settlers are wrong. But if Mexico tried to take back Texas or California because it "was once theirs" we would laugh at them and kindly point our guns at Meixico City and take the rest of the country. The UN would like to try some of those Isreali leaders for crimes against humanity of their own. Amnesty International has long condemned Isreal for not letting in 3rd party witnesses when claims of geonocide are made. Sure the suicide bombing has to stop, but sooner or later Israel will also have to be heald accountable for their actions as well
I have no problem with Isreal trying to get a good little country going, butwhy must the US spend so much money on them when we can't even afford to properly shcool our own children? (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From K.
Friday, May 09, 2003, 17:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree Israel suffered and should have the gift that was made to them , but they should stop there and leave the land they've taken since. The thing that sets the Jewish people apart from it's Arab brother's is the fact that they have the Bible telling them a bunch of horse shit. They persist in setting themselves apart as "Jews" who have a god given right, as set out in the Bible. For non-believers where does this all end? The Family said their god gave them the freedom to abuse children. The sad fact is because the Jewish religion was founded before christianity, todays believers, whether it be catholic, protestant,penticostal or new age, they all rely on the myth of the Jewish traditions and foundations. And they can't break away and denounce Israel without casting a similar shadow on themselves, as it's the back bone of their beleifs
Did anyone hear of the Two-day coup in Venezuela last year? { Venezuela is the world's 4th biggest oil producer, after Texas, Saudi and Irak.] It wasn't widely reported but it's interresting in the sense that the US [after 9/11] endorsed and sponsered state terrorism, to support an oil rich bussiness class to overthrow the much awaited for elected goverment of the people and their president, Mr Chevez. It didn't work He He! Power to the people.Peace! (reply to this comment) |
| | From frmrjoyish
Friday, May 09, 2003, 00:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh, please!! There are more Jewish people living in other countries around the world than are actually in Israel! For the US to bear the responsibility of "stopping Hitler" is ridiculous. One thing the US does now bear responsibility for, is the fact that it continues to look the other way and turn a blind eye to Israel's treatment of the Palestinean people. Every country deserves its own land, its own government and the right to fly their own flag! (reply to this comment) |
| | from Anthony
Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 17:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
There once was an Irishman who married a woman who was half African and half Native Indian, they spawned a whole litter of daughters, who in turn did some spawning of their own.
Rumor has it that this Irishman was Hebrew, or Jewish, a term some prefer, but for some ambiguous reason, some of his descendants deny this (fact). One of his daughters gave birth to only daughters, one of whom gave birth to my grandmother, who gave birth to my mother, who, unfortunately, gave birth to me. I may be one of the chosen after all. I still trying to find out the details, just out of curiosity, but most of the keepers of our bloodline are dead or expiring of old age.
(reply to this comment)
| from PompousJohn
Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 14:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
Here's what I think about the Jews:
Since I was born in the Family and I loved and trusted my family and The Family and then they turned out to be a bunch of lying, backstabing, petty, self-centered deluded freaks I deduced that if the people you love and trust cannot be trusted then no one can and that only my own experiece is a valid reference.
My mother told me I was Jewish on both sides of the family (I never knew my dad, so I took her word for it) 28 years later I met him and his parents who are not Jewish at all (or else they are and deny it) so probably my mother lied. If she is a Jew, as she claims, then Jews are liars. Unless she was lying about being a Jew, in which case Jews are not necessarily liars but she is. I myself am not a liar, (at least I don't think so) so if Jews are liars than I am not a Jew, which means my mother is even more of a liar and definitely not a Jew, and clears the Jews from being liars by this highly irresponsible logic train.
In case you haven't guessed I have no fucking idea what to think about Jews.
(reply to this comment)
| From Mir
Wednesday, May 07, 2003, 16:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Cheers Pomp! Always pleased/amused to hear what you've got to say even though you did slag off my poll some time ago! ;-)
How's sunny Dominican Rep? My youngest sister is married to a Dominican... Lucky you, I wish we got a bit more sun in grey old uk...
Going back to the above subject, remember how in the cult if you had any Jewish in you it was considered cool and superior? (Probably the reason why your mum told you what she did about your dad).
See ya
Mir (reply to this comment) |
| | From Gen
Wednesday, May 07, 2003, 21:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Mir, I'm not sure what part of the Family you grew up in, but being of 100% pure Jewish stock myself and having the looks to accompany the heritage, there was nothing cool or superiror whatsoever about being Jewish while growing up in the Family. I was teased mercilessly about it, I had the fact pointed out to me by people who had no business pointing it out, and I basically carried my genes like a badge of shame.
I've long since overcome the inferiority complex of being Jewish that I developed while growing up in the Family, but I'd have to say that Berg's writings on the subject of Jews sure did not help at the time, nor did the immature attitude of his followers -- both old and young. Perhaps it was different in different parts of the world. And perhaps it was different for those who's looks were not so blatantly obvious. But for me, had a form of the witness protection program been available to Jews in the Family, I would've jumped at the oportunity to just be "normal", thank-you-very-much.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Gen
Friday, May 09, 2003, 01:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, John, you gave them so much else to trouble their brains they never had to bring in the Jewish issue. But then again, you don't exactly look Jewish and neither do your parents, so unless you personally went around telling everyone that you were Jewish, how would they know? Had I had your wonderful good fortune of non-Jewish looks, I would've damn well kept my Jewish origin mouth shut.(reply to this comment) |
| | From PompousJohn
Friday, May 09, 2003, 08:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well my deluded little mind was proud of being supposedly Jewish. I felt sorry for my Goyim brethren who didn't have the blood of the Patriarchs coursing through their veins and would never know the genetic superiority of being children of Abraham by birth AND by faith.
As you know though, the Family was a pretty small group and you only had to tell one person you were Jewish for everybody to know, or as in my case that your mother's maiden name was von Funkenheimer.
Seriously though, in all the Judeo-Christian religions anti-semetism has always been more a religious than racial issue, most christian philosophies go to great lengths to make all believers Jews on some level since Christ equated non-Jews benefitting from his teachings with dogs that ate the scraps that fell from the Jewish table. Christian groups are the first to stick up for Israel, etc. They parade their Jewish converts around like trophies because the gospel is supposed to belong to them first and only goes to the rest of us when they are done with it. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Curious
Wednesday, May 07, 2003, 22:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's terrible that you had to go through that.
I'm curious, Gen, what you think about what I perceived in the Family in this regard. I sensed (I could have been wrong) a feeling that someone Jewish who was "saved" was a bit of a bigger deal than someone who had been some variety of Christian, like a stronger "testimony," sort of along the lines of people with very dramatic drug stories to be "saved" from.
For some of the other posters here, it makes me bristle to hear the phrase "the Jews" on this site, can't people say "Jewish people" or something more urbane and less harsh than "the Jews," which seems to mark Jewish people off as "the Other" and was used in the Family so much? (reply to this comment) |
| | From Mir
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 15:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Shoot Gen, that's horrid! I think Berg was a racist and bigot and that ignorant attitude got passed down to the "sheep". Remember how "superior" the "western brothers & sisters" were to "the natives"? Ugh, it was disgusting. So much for showing "the love of god"... I remember that being the case especially in India. It was also the case to some extent in Latin America, I remember being made to feel uncomfortable for being half Latin... And if you happened to be black- bloody hell! That was another reason to be picked on. I had some very close girlfriends in the cog who were black and they suffered.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Gen
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 15:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
It's kind of interesting that you refer to the phrase "Jewish people" rather than "the Jews". I remember once when I was a teen, my mom told me that she had written a paper while in highschool where she referred to "Jews" as "Jews". Her mother (my grandmother) got quite upset over the fact and said that instead of calling the Jewish people, "Jews", which in her opinion was very disrespectful -- and it is -- it is a slang word of some sort, to refer to them as "the Jewish people".
I definitely agree that using the phrase "the Jews" or "Jews" is very harsh. I myself have not heard that phrase or wording used in society much. "Jewish", maybe, but not "Jews". If someone does use the term, it indicates a lack of education, poor upbringing or racist remarks. That is my opinion only. It's possible one of the history/grammar/ perfectionist Nazis that frequent this site might have opposite thoughts on the subject.
Maybe it's true, like you say, that someone who was Jewish and got saved was a "bigger testimony" -- like a dramatic drug story salvation. Berg ranted and raved so much in his writings about how diabolical and anti-christ the Jews (Jewish people) were, and about his witnessing to them when he was living in Miami. It certainly left a person with the impression that getting a "Jew" "saved" was the ultimate of miracles.
Now that you mention it and I think back about my childhood, I wonder if my dad might not have capitalized on his "Jewish salvation" somewhat -- at least prior to the late-80s. The thought had never occured to me back then. But being a Jewish child born into the Family certainly was no "oh-wow" wonder & only brought with it singling out and character labeling. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Joe H
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 17:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just got teased cause you were a dork, and that while it may have taken the form of racial slurs, it didn't originate with some innane hatred of Jewish people? I don't mean to be mean, but have you considered it. I got teased in high school too, but I don't blame it on the fact that I'm 1/8th Irish. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Gen
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 22:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
Did they tease you in high-school by using Irish slurs, pointing out the negative traits of the Irish, the odd looks of the Irish, and having your class read anti-Irish ramblings and making sure that you knew that were Irish (in case the fact had somehow escaped you all of these years)? Because if they did, it might have actually had something to do with the fact that you are 1/8 Irish and not because you are a dork.
If I had said that I was only mocked because I was Jewish, perhaps, then, yes, it could've been because I was a dork & didn't quite get the fact that I was. I believe I received enough dork teasing on my own dork merits--Jewish heritage aside. I also feel confident enough that I know the difference.
Put it this way, Joe, when you were sent out in the fields for hard labor and had the endless casting out of demon sessions you've referred to on this site, was it because you were a dork, or because someone had you pegged as demon possessed, and that while it may have taken the form of exorcisms, it didn't originate with some innane disregard of your individuality?
Back to the subject at hand, which, I believe, is growing up Jewish in the Family: I wonder, Joe, what it would've been like for you, if David Berg had suddenly got a thing against all Joes. If he ranted and raved about Joe and all the God-damned Joeish people & it takes a Joe to know a Joe. Of course Joes in the Family would be different because they were in the Family, but all the other Joes, they were really wicked. It's too bad, Joe, that you have the same traits and looks as all the other Joes, sometimes it's difficult to differentiate between you. And when we read that stuff about Joes, well, we know it's not really talking about you, but I can't help smirking, because, after all, you are a Joe & I'm really happy I'm not. I mean if it weren't for the fact that Joe was in the Family then he'd be a full-fledged Joe, and how God hates Joes (unless they are saved, of course). It's other Joes just like you responsible for all the Family persecution. They even tried to kill David Berg. I wonder if Joe cringes every time his name is lambasted? I wonder if Joe ever hears about it from others his own age -- or if the adults around him rub it in? Nah, forget it, if they tease him it's just because he's a dork.
Poor attempt at humor aside, Joe, I really don't think people in the Family had an innane hatred of Jewish people. They were just damn insensitive to any form of racism, that's all. David Berg? Well, he had an innane hatred of Jewish people. (reply to this comment) |
| | From PompousJohn
Friday, May 09, 2003, 09:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Gen, I know Berg was messed up, but he was also Jewish and Family leadership always seemed disproportionally Jewish to me. Yeah he went on long boring tyrades against "the Jews" but he was talking about the religion, not the race - and I think even the dumbest family members were aware of this. It is normal for religious groups to go on tyrades against other religions - though obviously Berg was an extreme case. Where did all this anti-semetic hazing take place for you? Was it one or two wierdos giving you crap? Maybe even wierdos that you spent a long frustrating time with? I got crap for the following things in the group:
1) being american
2) having bushy hair
3) having acne
4) being skinny (it was a long time ago, and I have definitely "gotten the victory" heh heh.)
5) having excessive body-hair
6) My sperm-donor Dad being "out of the spirit" before I was born.
All these things and more were considered manifestations of my deep-rooted spiritual problems, possible demon posession etc. but I don't consider that I was discriminated against as such, I was just under the authority of real dumbasses.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think you were a victim of anti-semetism, I think you were a victim of extreme stupidity. If you hadn't been Jewish they would have found something else to hassle you about. You are fortunate that there are support groups that protect the traits you feel you were targeted for. Unfortunately, there are no Anti-Defamation Leagues that speak up for skinny kids with monobrows and bushy hair. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Gen
Friday, May 09, 2003, 10:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
John, I believe the first half of your last paragraph is essentially the same thought that I presented to Joe H elsewhere in this thread. To repeat: I do not believe that I was a victim of anti-semetism in the Family, simply the victim of ignorance and insensitivity -- something that all of us suffered for at some point in our lives -- and some suffered much, much worse than I for things that had nothing to do with race.
My point was not that everyone in the Family hated Jews. My point was -- and still is -- that growing up while Jewish in the Family was nothing that I was proud of and that rather than having it be something beneficial (as was originally suggested by Mir), it simply made me the target for jokes, insensitive comments, etc. etc. and that if I had had the chance to be "non-Jewish" (in looks and name particularly because those two are what made my Jewishness so obvious) I would've jumped at the opportunity.
On the subject of David Berg being Jewish: I would like to be generous and say that he had a strong hatred for the zionist movement & not the Jewish people in general, but unfortunately his little walk through Israel revealed even the children were demons in the spirit. I suppose he could be Jewish by blood and still have a loathing for the rest of the non-"saved" Jewish due to the fact that he was now a Christian (same train of thought in is in my post to Joe H elsewhere on this thread if you want this clarified) & "we are all equal in Christ" and all of that bull.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From PompousJohn
Friday, May 09, 2003, 14:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Gen, I don't want to get into an argument with you or anybody else over this. My opinions are far from mainstream and most of the time that's the only reason I formulated them in the first place.
Once on my second and final (I hope) acid trip I saw everyone in the "spirit" and realised we are all made of feces. (Sorry, Moby, not "stars") I still haven't definitively concluded that I was wrong for that brief and horrific moment, so I guess you could say I'm anti-humanitarian.
Sorry about what you went through growing up. The people who put us through that were and are insane, there's no need to disect their motives, they have no value in the real world and it is equally non-productive to continue to fret over them as it is to allow them to create flags in your mind that others can inadvertantly set off.
Good luck in your new life, and I hope all goes well for you. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Joe H
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 15:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
I disagree. In fact, I'm even going to go so far as to call this a load of crap, in absence of any good evidence to the contrary. What's the difference between "the Jews" and "the Jewish people"? It's a silly euphemism. Nobody calls us "the American people" I dated a stupid Mexican girl who didn't care to be called "Mexican" (I told her how I felt about that!) If your Jewish, you're a Jew, the plural of which is "Jews," so get over it!(reply to this comment) |
| | From PS to Joe from Gen
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 22:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Joe, please tell me you are educated enough (hell, I think even David Berg published this somewhere in his ramblings) that "Jew" was a nickname given to those from Judea back in what, Babylonian times? The term has since taken on a life of its own, but it is not the same as being called a "Mexican" or an "American" and here is why:
Mexican people come from Mexico. Chinese come from China. Jews do not come from anywhere in particular anymore.
Likewise, it cannot be linked to a particular religion. Hindus are Hindus, Christians are Christians, but Jewish is a term used for people who may or may not adhere to the Judaism.
If you call me a Jew, what does that mean? Does it define my religion? Does it define my country of origin, or is it, in the legacy of Berg used to define who is/isn't trying to take over the world? It is, I suppose, the equivalent of calling someone "black". It is a racial word. Black people in the United States are referred to as "African American" do you have a problem with that too? To refer to someone as a "black person" is impolite and uneducated, at least I believe it is. In the same regard, I view calling someone a "Jew" as equally impolite and uneducated.
I don't quite see anything in this subject worth "getting over". To "get over" something means that it was an issue in the first place. Raising a point for discussion & presenting a point of view, is, I would hope, not yet grounds for "having issues". (reply to this comment) |
| | From Anthony
Friday, May 09, 2003, 13:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Actually, not all black Americans trace their origins directly back to Africa; thus, it is a misnomer to refer to all black American as African-Americans. Some anthropologist and evolutionist claim that "man" originated in Africa but we don't go around calling everyone from different "races" or nationalities "African-[whatever]," by the same token, it kinda dumb to refer to black Americans as African-Americans. If calling someone black is racist, then calling them African-American is just as racist; think about it.
Besides, how do we refer to American muts, which so many of us are? We're humans, firstly, Americans and other nationalities, secondly. If calling someone black is racist so is calling someone blond (blonde ), burnette, redhead, brown, pale, pink, white, etc. I don't mind being called black or brown because that's what my skin shows, but that doesn't make me feel any speciall bond or kinship with Africans anymore than with the French, British, Irish, Native Indian , Jewish, Spanish or Dutch peoples, all of whose blood I carry in some measure or another.
Now, one could argue the follwing: Anthony feels this way because he was raised in an environment of a bizarre cult, which didn't allow for, or nurture any sense of identity in its members, which also acounts for his often strange and ostensibly ambiguous views, outlooks and attitudes. Besides, he was raised well outside of his biological community and may be suffering from an acute and advanced form of identity crisis.
This above might've had the chance of being a valid argument were it not for the fact that I've spoken with a healthy number of "African-Americans" who share my views on the subject in questions.
Anyway, black is my favorite color, as seen in my wardrobe.
"So, I'm going out and I'm looking for that shirt, but I just can't find it, goddammit!"
"Which shirt are you looking for Ant?"
"The black one."
"They're all black, you idiot, all your clothes are black, no wonder you can't find crap." (reply to this comment) |
| | From roughneck
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 23:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
So what *do* you call an adherent to the teachings of the Torah and Talmud? Apparently "Jew" is not appropriate, so for future reference, what's the term I may use without being bashed as ignorant, impolite and/or uneducated, pray tell? Also, what other religion does the term "Jew" refer to?
I believe that in the case of the word "Jew", context is all important. If it is used pejoratively &/or stereotypically, then it can and should be taken as an insult. Though I don't think it's fair to equate the word "jew" with the always insulting term "kike". I don't know how it is where you live, but the only people I know that use the term "African American" in everyday conversation are melanin-challenged people who are paranoid of even letting others know that they can tell one shade of skin tone from the next. I opine that merely changing a term does not equal changing of the attitude that requires distinction between colours or ethnicities. If you say "African American" but really mean "n*gger", what difference is there really? Same with any other pejorative nickname like spic, wop, pom, paki, polack, kraut et al. If promulgation of rude stereotypes is the object, what real difference does it make if the wording is politically correct or not? Aside from the difference it makes to a semantician, of course.
By the way, if I were to call you a "Jew", I would in 99% of cases be referring to your religion. The country where Judaism is the official religion is called "Israel", not Jew-land or even Judaea. (I could be mistaken here, but I believe that "Judaea" was a Roman province encompassing more than just Israel, while the term "Jew" came from the Babylonian captivity where the majority of transported hebrews were from the Tribe of Judah (note spelling difference) and Benjamin.)
As for ethnicity, one who is a "Jew" could conceivably look like anything from a Middle Eastern to a White European to a Mediterranean. (But I won't go into the whole Ashkenazim/Sephardim debate here.) I agree with you: anyone who says that "you look Jewish" hasn't a clue. I would venture though, that Sephardic Hebrews come closest to the historically proper definition of "Jew". I have been told that Sephardim are discriminated against quite heavily in Israel itself, which IMO only goes to show that the "chosen ones" haven't quite figured out the whole PC thing either.
Shalom.
L. (reply to this comment) |
| | From PompousJohn
Friday, May 09, 2003, 09:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
Up until now, at which point I am thoroughly bored with the topic, if I had asked someone whether they were a Jew, I would be asking about their religion. I have a Hassidic associate (long curly sideburns and little round cap) who uses this term freely to describe himself and anyone else who professes Jewish faith. Of course, his english is not so good and admittedly I would have to be more than a little drunk to phrase a question so insensetively. Now if I asked someone if they were "Jewish", I would be asking about their ancestry. So as far as I know a "Jew" is someone who takes Saturdays off from work and celebrates Haunnaka (or however you spell it) and a "Jewish person" is someone who claims to be able to trace their lineage back to Jacob, or at least to someone who can.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Gen
Friday, May 09, 2003, 00:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Rough, yes, thank you for clarifying the spelling on Judah. It was what I meant, I was in a hurry.
It is my impression that when used to describe the Jewish religion, "Jewish" is the correct term.
If I were to ask someone about their religion, I would feel fine in asking, "Are you Jewish?". I would not, under any circumstance ask someone, "Are you a Jew?". On those same grounds, I would not refer to someone as, "a Jew", but rather "Jewish" (the plural of which would be "Jewish people" not "Jews".
Similarly, even though 99% of the time when you use the word "Jew" you would be referring to religion, I would venture to say that those you were speaking about would not take kindly to the term "Jew" even if they were Jewish by religion -- Jewish, again, being the more considerate term.
Example: If someone had converted to Judaism from Christianity, would one call that person a Jew?
I agree with your point that merely changing the name does not equal changing of the attitude. At the same time, to use a name that is not highly appreciated shows insensitivity. (I am not saying you are insensitive, I am only explaining my point).
In the context of growing up in the Family, the term Jew did not refer to either religion or citizenship but was rather a stereotypical slur that encompassed personality traits and looks. (reply to this comment) |
| | From PompousJohn
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 16:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hear, Hear!
"Get Over It"
I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat
Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it
You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing
Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, Get over it
It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass
Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it
Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it
-If anyone is silly enough to think I wrote the above, then just keep on thinkin' it.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Sanders
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 15:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
I could be wrong, but if "Jews" or "Jewish" are used as adjectives, then it's offensive. As long as they are used as nouns, either is alright. I think "Jewish people" is the politically correct term. If a population prefers to be called by a particular name, why use something else? It the same with calling Asians "Orientals". At least in the States, you don't hear those terms used anymore. Unfortunately, because terms such as "Mexican" are so often used in a derrogitory way, some people are sensitive about it. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Joe H
Thursday, May 08, 2003, 17:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
but if "Jews" or "Jewish" are used as adjectives, then it's offensive That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Please explain your statement.
Unfortunately, whether or not terms such as "Mexican" are used in a derogatory way, they are still correct terms. I will laugh in the face of any Mexican person who wants to be called something else. I am an American, a human, and a male, I'm not ashamed of it, I don't ask to be called an "American citizen," a "member of the human race" (oh crap I said race!) or a "member of the male gender (or persuasion, if "gender" is too politically charged)" Like the song says, get over it!
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from Mir
Monday, April 28, 2003 - 06:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Aren't you that side-show that thinks he was abducted by the CIA and bunged into a Family Training Camp? You weren't even brought up in TF so I'm not interested in your screwed up opinion. Also, if you're not careful and keep posting rubbish without spell checking it first, you are going to get a proper tongue lashing from the Spelling Police who regularly patrol this website...
(reply to this comment)
| From webel
Saturday, May 10, 2003, 14:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
hahahahaha! you go there girlfriend! tell that loser Pizzaman or Delivery boy or whatever to get off our site and learn his grammar and spelling or else not to bother spouting crap, and Culti, please be nice to my sister - she just enjoys heated arguments, we can still draw the line and be respectful like mature adults! and not resort to these insults that are the lowest common denominator!(reply to this comment) |
| | From webel
Saturday, May 10, 2003, 14:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
hahahahaha! you go there girlfriend! tell that loser Pizzaman or Delivery boy or whatever to get off our site and learn his grammar and spelling or else not to bother spouting crap, and Culti, please be nice to my sister - she just enjoys heated arguments, we can still draw the line and be respectful like mature adults! and not resort to these insults that are the lowest common denominator!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Cultinvator
Sunday, May 04, 2003, 20:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
Spell police can go fuck themselves! That was a decent question and if you understood it maybe you should quit fussing like a little bitch and answer the damn question. What do we need now, certified copies and legal documents to get a point accross. Spell check police can take it up the rear end.... Shit, some people have nothing better to do with their time than to nit pick instead of creating. If you get 10 spelling errors in a 20 word sentence chances are you probably still understand the sentence. Like Albert Einstein, I concord that "Imagination is more important than knowlege" and that includes spelling knowlege. So if you can understand the rap, shut the bitchin'. The english language is so damn confusing and the spelling madder yet. People create spelling rules, probably just to fuck with you. We could use a renewed cleansing of pricks and assholes in this day and age. Wasting cyberspace for what, to judge? How does it feel to be spelling pig? As if we don't have enough pigs in the world already. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Mir
Monday, May 05, 2003, 16:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Who are you calling a bitch, weirdo? You must be out of your box, because it was me asking the questions in the first place! Let me clarify it for you as YOU are obviously having problems understanding what I wrote. I was telling "I'm suffering from delusions Pizzaman" that I'm not interested in his opinion as he wasn't born in TF. Get it? It was me who asked the question in the first place after all. I for one don't give a rat's backside if people spell the odd word incorrectly, but if you know that your spelling isn't brilliant, (and quite frankly, Pizzaman's is appalling) then it's common sense to simply run your comments through the spell check. It's just good manners.
You really need to take a chill pill. You come across as someone who has a massive chip on his shoulder and a big loud mouth to match. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Cultinvator
Monday, May 05, 2003, 18:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, weirdo. Is that all you got bitch. Sorry that name just sticks on so nicely. I'm actually sober for a change and it wasn't your dear article I was addressing, although well written. It was the trend of exclusivity that I think is just a bad ideal altogether. But hey freedom to hate I guess. Wasn't born in the family? What kind of club is that the "Borne misleading identity" club. Shit, I wish I wasn't born in it. But I am so I deal with it. Nothing to be proud about. Bunch of lunatics in refuge homes calling out the fall of california in 40 days. Our parents all swallowed it and the pitiful ass wiping rap after it. He's been in the cult let him give his opinions. I think both Palestine and Jewland have a lot of cleaning up to do. They're both in deep shit. Most of the people are inocent in my opinion. But the hate trend is kept alive by partriotic pigs that think they're born better then others.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Mir
Tuesday, May 06, 2003, 04:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
LOL! Bitch! Ok, I admit it! I can be a bit of a bitch sometimes as my dear siblings used to love to point out to me on a regular basis! It's just been a while since I've been called that as we don't insult each other any more like we used to (we're all grown up now you see!). Yeah, me too, I wish I hadn't been born in that stupid cult, but look on the brightside, it's made us who we are today, and I for one am proud of who I am, and I'm proud of the fact that I made it through hell and back and lived to tell the tale- and so have you! The longer I'm out of it, the more I realize who bloody crazy the whole thing was!
Culti, take it easy on the substances.... I caned all manner of substances for years and all it did was plunge me into a worse depression... Well, what I mean is that they pulled me out of one depression and plunged me into another. The next day is always a killer. I went out this weekend for the first time in ages and got absolutely plastered on booze and I felt so shitty the next day I wondered how on earth I managed to do this weekend after weekend for years!
Hey Jules, thanks for explaining what I meant, you hit the nail on the head!
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Monday, May 05, 2003, 19:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
Cultinvator,
This stream of obscentities is a bit surprising considering the intelligent things you often have to say. Are you okay?
What Mir was referring to, if I'm not mistaken, is the fact that this web site is specifically for people born in the Family, and not for everyone out there who joined some cult (or thinks they did). There are a lot of strange people out there (some who don't share our background) and Mr. Pizzaman seems to be someone who just stumbled on this site and not one of the target demographic. There are lots of other web sites for people like him to go to and spout his opinions. This one however, is not for him.
Honestly, the fights that start over absolutely nothing sometimes... (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Cultinvator
Monday, May 05, 2003, 18:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Groan all you want. I just don't think we should be starting exclusive trends towards those who didn't grow up "just like we did" and got molested or had to litness hours under the sun at the age of 5 or were told to masterbate with the impression of a woman in their head, or you get the point. Whether it was pizzaman or Mir he has the right of freespeech without needing to speak the lingo or think the think.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Cultinvator
Sunday, May 04, 2003, 19:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Spell police can go fuck themselves! That was a decent question and if you understood it maybe you should quit fussing like a little bitch and answer the damn question. What do we need now, certified copies and legal documents to get a point accross. Spell check police can take it up the rear end.... Shit, some people have nothing better to do with their time than to nit pick instead of creating. If you get 10 spelling errors in a 20 word sentence chances are you probably still understand the sentence. Like Albert Einstein, I concord that "Imagination is more important than knowlege" and that includes spelling knowlege. So if you can understand the rap, shut the bitchin'. The english language is so damn confusing and the spelling madder yet. People create spelling rules, probably just to fuck with you. We could use a renewed cleansing of pricks and assholes in this day and age. Wasting cyberspace for what, to judge? How does it feel to be spelling pig? As if we don't have enough pigs in the world already. (reply to this comment) |
| | from pizzaman2
Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 17:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
i admire the jewish work ethic, they are a progressive poeple. but on the issue of israel which is really occuppied palestinion land and has been for thousand of years i disagree with you . it was jewish terrorists who overthrew british occupied palestine and declared it israel an absoloute disgarce and much the the un disgrace theyu recognised this illegal state , helped by us funds, no doubt american jews used there influence.
How woul u like it if a refugge turned up at your doorstep with a gun in the middle of the night and basically said" according to my god this is my land" (nice piece of real estate ) i will take it. You would no doubt fighet fotr it. THe israels have violated many human rights and regularly use wepons of mass destruction to inflict damge and commit state sponsered terrosim on innocent Palestinions, as well as causing great concern in the Middle East. Incidentally Israel is a democrace in name only , it seems to me israelies can vote for a choice of fascist leaders.
Long live the Intifada
(reply to this comment)
| From Cultinvator
Sunday, May 04, 2003, 20:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think the Jewish people have the right to come back to their land just as much as the Palestinians have the right to continue living there. IMHO, Arafat totally blew it in that deal they were about to break in Camp David. So the whole country suffered. Suicides are a very sad thing. They don't resolve anything, and they just make the moderates antagonistic towards the Palestinian regime. Hopefully this change of commander should help to bring the ever rotting relationships down to some common ground. The Jews and palestinians are mostly just people like you and me trying to get on with their lives. The polititians and governments don't really represent the people as a whole. I think there still is a need of outside involvement to get them to control the suicide bomb rate and terrorism and the gestapo overly militaristic right on the other end with the Israeli gov't.
David Berg had Identity issues and cultural issues to resolve with himself about his past. His "prophetic" stances were nothing short of bipolar. He should have seeked psychiatric help when he started seeing "jews as demons" in his confession crappy letter.
(reply to this comment) |
| | from Nick
Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 13:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Interesting point! Right now I have quite a few Jewish friends and to some extent consider myself a Jew. By birth I am a Jew. My mother was born and raised in Israel and was Jewish before she joined the cult. My brother now spends months over in Israel.
Looking at the Jewish community I am very disappointed that I was not raised in that environment because of the very close community they build and how they help each other out. It’s no wonder that they are usually the wealthy ones in town!
Let me explain. When my good friend needed a job not to long ago his dad put the word out to all his Jewish friends and within a few weeks he had a good job. He needed a lawyer for some traffic violations and again he was helped for free by a lawyer in the Jewish community. I have a problem with my shoulder and when I mentioned it to them they were like “Oh, your one of us. We will get Dr. so and so to give you an ultra sound”. They are always there to help each other out and help to build and strengthen their community.
What pisses me the fuck off is when some people watch the news and see a name and right always say “oh, he is Jewish!” and that’s a bad thing. I say more power to them and hope other communities could follow their example.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From Vicky
Thursday, April 24, 2003, 15:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Nick! I'm going to nitpick here (only 'cause I'm in that sort of mood); Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe it's only passed on to the females so for you to be truly considered of the Jewish faith you would need to go through some sort of induction ceremony. Then if you had a daughter she would automatically be Jewish whereas your son would have to actually make a commitment to the Faith upon coming of age. Does anyone know for sure? (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
|
|
|
|
]
[About the Trailer Park] [Who Links Here]