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from Xenon Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 23:08 (Agree/Disagree?) I find that even when I think I'm doing a half-assed job myself, my immediate supervisors always seem to think I am doing a great job. I think the adaptability, our "chameleon-like" qualities keep us ahead of the pack in some respects. It ALMOST makes up for the almost complete lack of education other than basic literacy which I received. The most negative feedback I usually get from employers is that they sometimes feel that I "dance to the beat of a different drummer", which is definitely true! (reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Friday, October 31, 2003 - 21:32 (Agree/Disagree?) So far, the many years I spent working in childcare has brought me to my present career of teaching English as a second language to children. But I don't enjoy the job, I do it cause I can and cause there is a need, and cause my education in the Family didn't give me a wide variety of experience so that when I 'grew up' I could decide my own path. I hope to leave my present country soon and go to college and find a career I really would enjoy doing. (reply to this comment)

from krystine Friday, October 31, 2003 - 14:15 (Agree/Disagree?) I personally don't think that your experiences in TF affect your career work habits as I know some people are just prone to laziness and others go-getters. I think it just depends on the person's personality and his/her own personal work ethics. It depends if you view your work as just a job or if it's a career that fulfills you. I know just as many ex-family members who are work slackers as those that are respected in their jobs because of superior work habits. (reply to this comment)

from Ne Oublie Friday, October 31, 2003 - 06:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Everyone I've worked with - or been interviewed by - so far has commented that I'm far more competent than others they've worked with/interviewed. I definitely haven't found my upbringing in the Family to be a detriment in the least. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Saturday, November 01, 2003, 14:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Ne Oublie: Given that all your comments since joining this site seem to be pro family and you've stated on several occaisions that you see nothing wrong with TF, I'm left wondering why you bothered to leave the group at all? Since you are relatively new to "the real world", you'll soon see that life out here is actually harder in some ways. By that I mean that is easy to use the name of God and the cute faces of adorable childeren to pander money from unsuspecting people as has been the major funding source for TF since its beggining. Supporting oneself is much harder when you do it on your own, without using "God" to fall back on. Of course, the benefits far outweigh the difficulties for those of us who like to think for ourselves, pursue an education, choose our own life paths, live with a significantly lower risk of sexual abuse for ourselves and our children, and not have our every move and idea pre-thought out for us. Please don't take this as me being sarcastic or trying to provoke and argument (although...I have been know to do that..just once or twice...:)). You have as much right to be on this site as others even though your views and experiences may differ from most. I'm simply trying to understand how you can feel so amicably towards TF yet have chosen to leave. And what about all the accounts you've read about on this site? Do they affect your views at all towards TF or do you not believe what you read here?? I'm really just asking! (reply to this comment)

From vince Friday, October 31, 2003, 11:49 (Agree/Disagree?) "Everyone I've worked with - or been interviewed by - so far has commented that I'm far more competent than others they've worked with/interviewed." That must be some competent people, to be able to tell your superior competence from an interview! I's sure you were a very competent witnesser. I was too, able to give an impression of depth and breadth and camouflage the differences in my upbringing as superior acuity. Well, I'm glad someone is having an easy time of the transition. That way the concern and charity can be better spent on those who may not have thrived as much in the group. They that are whole need not a physician, as it were.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Tuesday, November 04, 2003, 02:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Vince, Yes, you're right, there is a difference between just 'talking the talk' and actually 'walking the walk', and thankfully I've been able to do both. I'm currently working in a multi-national bank, and I have so far been able to surpass my target by over 20%. While this is not the most challenging job around - nor my 'dream' career, it is moving in the right direction. My time in TF didn't specifically prepare me for an immediate career in finance, but I do have enough to work with and from which to work to build my career. I'm sorry that you dislike my 'tone', but I should point out that I have never rejected anyone's accounts or experiences. To the contrary, I have repeatedly, in this forum, stated that I was recounting MY opinions and experiences but that they were no more or less relevent than those who fared much less favourably in TF.(reply to this comment)

From My Answer Friday, October 31, 2003, 13:26 (Agree/Disagree?) I think the point of the post is addressing the issue of career, meaning ones chosen profession and not the personal affects of having grown up in TF.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, October 31, 2003, 12:41 (Agree/Disagree?) While not in need - nor desiring - either concern or charity, I and those who like me have had an easy transition are equally entitled to describe our experiences as those who have had a harder go of it.(reply to this comment)

From vince Saturday, November 01, 2003, 15:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Those who like you have had an easy transition certainly are equally entitled to describe your experiences. Who might you have to thank for your easier experiences, I wonder? Might it be those who had hell and let it be known to the law and the media? Those like Jules who makes it possible for the story to be told publicly so that the erasorheads won't "Oublie" so fast? Who made it necessary for TF to change their tactics with their children, the easier to pretend it was always so? And did you ever stop to think that it IS easier at 26 than at 13, 15 or 17 when you've been raised in COG-FOL-TTC-DTR era? Now you might say "you should have waited to leave then." Well for some of us it was preferable to risk the certain insanity and death of which we were warned, so miserable were we. Some of us were treated as less than persons. Some of us were being ground down to the ground daily -- "dying daily." Some of us were raped and beaten and humiliated and shamed and hungry and tired and hopeless. So we left, into the void.(reply to this comment)

From silver Monday, November 03, 2003, 09:37 (Agree/Disagree?) All I can say is that I'm terribly thankful that I'm number five amongst a hoard of siblings. That by the time I came around certain aspects had improved and that the nightmares for childhoods that I read about in this site are someone elses tale. I still don't know how my older siblings have managed to "come to terms" with their childhood. How they can not hate my parents (as I do), for their total lack of parental instinct and continuing naivete towards all matters of past inflictions. I think that in comparison, I had a pretty ok time, and therefore do not post (m)any articles on this site...probably out of common sense knowing that "good stories" (i say that in the broadest possible interpretation of the word) are not exactly welcome on this site. However, as "good" as my life was, I still face problems and obstacles which are a direct result of my upbringing. Since i always felt that my "story" was trivial in comparison to my elder siblings, I never gave myself a chance to heal but rather spent my energy trying to help them whilst feeling guilty for having a "not so bad" childhood. I'm now through with being a "stronger person" because of my background, I just want to be normal...yet will never be. Well, all that to say that whomever of you has had a "not quite so bad" childhood and are now living a (semi)normal life, I'm happy for you and hope that you find a way to vent your issues and problems, if not on this site then elsewhere. It'll pay off in the long run.(reply to this comment)

From vince Monday, November 03, 2003, 16:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Silver, Nobody's story is trivial! I would hate to think I seemed to be suggesting that, and I apologize for any such impression I may have conveyed. What got my goat was Ne Oublie's "I'm the proof of the pudding" good-sample tone. In his defense, maybe he just hasn't had a chance to learn other ways of communicating so he still sounds very TF-ish. However, I don't think he's been out long enough to have a full understanding of how his prospects in the world have been affected. I think it's a very necessary survival mechanism to be as optimistic as possible when starting out. But for me, once I no longer felt rich because I made $4.25 an hour (which is a lot compared to 0 an hour with a bonus of total life control) and aspired for more, and had a chance to seeing what life was really like (e.g., not all systemites have miserable, pointless lives), it tempered my outlook. And I'm one of the lucky ones, I can say I'm successful at my chosen path. But some of us are DEAD from trying to leave! Sometimes Ne Oublie and others say things in a way that seems to be hurling it in the teeth of us do who feel we were abused. Sometimes, said in the same tone a "shepherd" would, it feels like they're saying "there must be something wrong with you, because I had it great, are you nuts or lying?" or suggesting we probably deserved to be sexually abused and thrown into Victor's programs. Just rather smug. So much of it is not people saying that they were not abused, which other people have said here in a less combative tone and nobody jumps on them, but rather saying this in that aggressive tone that TF people take on media shows when denying our stories. Ne Oublie's story being true does not make ours false. When he learns not to say things in a tone that suggests that, I think he will get a warmer reception. Your comment did not have any of these galling aspects to it, and I hope that you can find a voice and that us outraged ones can give you space. You sound totally compassionate of your older siblings who you say did experience the abuse when it was more rampant. It's very big of you to stand by your older siblings that way. We should all be so lucky! But I also hope you can take care of yourself, that's not selfishness, or if it is selfishness, it's not wrong. You come first. Even if you really want to be there for others, the smart thing is to be strong. Don't feel guilty for not having had some of the experiences of your older siblings. Think, just for example, how great it is for them that one of you is less scarred and able to be an anchor. I'm right there with you when you say "I'm now through with being a "stronger person" because of my background, I just want to be normal...yet will never be." I have that longing too. I now have the setup of not only a normal life, but one that looks pretty good in worldly terms. I'm working on feeling as normal and successful as I look on paper, trying to feel less confused by the contrast between my present good life and my tortured memories. (reply to this comment)

From silver Thursday, November 06, 2003, 02:56 (Agree/Disagree?) No apology needed...glad you're in a better place.(reply to this comment)

from The Friendly Grammar Nazi Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 11:55 (Agree/Disagree?) It seems to have affected your education, or you would know that "affect" is not a noun, "effect" is. (reply to this comment)

From krush Tuesday, October 28, 2003, 20:21 (Agree/Disagree?) The topic didn't cover education. The issue has been discussed at length on this site. Good spot though on the grammatical error. I suppose etiquette maybe should have been included in my post, maybe then you would have stayed on topic.(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Wednesday, October 29, 2003, 14:08 (Agree/Disagree?) I was going to say you should just get over it and correct the typo, but then I saw that you did. Thanks!(reply to this comment)

from Nick Monday, October 27, 2003 - 13:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah I agree with you there. I did find that when I left the group I had a much better work ethic that any of my co-workers. While they would usually do as little as possible I was always the one making sure my work was done right. All this was a long time ago and now that I have been working for a while I found out that I can make the same amount of money while I just slack off and chat on line all day, Heh heh heh... (reply to this comment)

from hm. Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 20:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Probably depends a lot on what you mean by "career" and it probably varies by how bad one's experience was in the Family and how traumatic one's departure. In my personal case I reached very high, and compared to my current peers I am behind in a lot of ways. My resourcefulness is often outweighed by the post-traumatic stress and the sheer exhaustion of the struggle my life has always been, so that after years of hard work and study, while I am poised for success at the early stages of a high-quality career, I also feel the weight of no childhood, no adolescence and it can feel like I am ready to start winding things down when the facts are that I am just starting out. And I'm not even one of those who left with a bunch of kids! (reply to this comment)

From celestej Monday, April 21, 2008, 22:35 (Agree/Disagree?) I feel the same way. Not only were we essentially robbed of a childhood, but we also had to cope with the stress of adjusting to the "real world" once we found the courage to leave TF. Some people seem to find living life as an adult easy in comparison to our forced childhood labor. I wish I could adopt such a positive attitude. I feel the normal struggles of adulthood compounding on the not-so-normal struggles of a horrific childhood, and life can feel harder every day, not easier. It feels as though I already paid my dues, that I've done adulthood in reverse, and I shouldn't have to work hard anymore. The only thing that keeps me going and inspires me is the immeasurable feeling of pride when I remind myself how strong I am in comparison to others who had it easy. You should be so incredibly proud of yourself. Not only did you survive a nightmare that would have killed many people, you climbed your way to the top and got and education. Do you know how amazing that is? You are a badass!(reply to this comment)