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from SeanSwede Monday, January 09, 2006 - 12:00 (Agree/Disagree?) "The cult likes to insist on "forgiveness" for their "mistakes" and claim they are against revenge. But they are all for revenge on people who anger the cult." SO FREAKIN`TRUE!! (reply to this comment)

from solemn Monday, January 09, 2006 - 08:40 (Agree/Disagree?) On forgiveness, Is it not customary for one (either as a group or individual) who has wronged another to; admit they have done wrong, admit the actions have taken place, understand the impact their actions have had, and ask for forgiveness knowing they are not owed forgiveness? In the civilized world this is the process. How wicked of them to circumvent process necessary on their part yet expect the end result from us. Forgiveness is a gift! (reply to this comment)

From Monday, January 09, 2006, 09:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Forgiveness is the action taken by the party that was wronged, penitence is that which should be taken by the party that wronged. Neither is dependant on the other: forgiveness can be given without penitence, and penitence does not necessitate forgiveness.(reply to this comment)

From solemn Monday, January 09, 2006, 09:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Notice I said it is a customary process. I realize we're not talking about the law of gravity. Would you harm someone and blindly expect forgiveness without conceding that you have done wrong.(reply to this comment)

From Monday, January 09, 2006, 10:34 (Agree/Disagree?) My point being that neither side can force the actions of the other - it is the decision of the wronged whether or not to forgive, it cannot be demanded. Nor can penitence be forced, although it can be a factor in the decision whether or not to forgive.(reply to this comment)

From solemn Monday, January 09, 2006, 15:35 (Agree/Disagree?) It can indeed be a factor. This was my original point. If someone wanted forgiveness should they not confess? This point is central to their belief system. “Jesus, please forgive me for being a sinner” (fill in the following obligatory nonsense) . Perhaps they should change the request for salvation to a demand; “Jesus, forgive me because I said so”. That they can miss such an important part of the process in dealing with their own "sins", suggests they support the doctrines that have caused so many to stumble.(reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, January 10, 2006, 02:59 (Agree/Disagree?) I think we were both making a similar point - just approaching it from different angles. Forgiveness cannot be demanded, even in response to apology. The way I see it, forgiveness reflects only on the person granting it and not the recipient; conversely penitence/apology is an undertaking of the one in the wrong, and brings no compulsion of reciprocal action on the one who was wronged.(reply to this comment)

From solemn Thursday, January 12, 2006, 22:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I will shoot you if you will shoot me my friend. Perhaps then we can stop agreeing in so many words. I forgive you for being right ;{)(reply to this comment)

From Bones Monday, January 09, 2006, 10:46 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree. However, for those who have done wrong to suggest that all should be forgiven and forgotten is calloused and offensive to those they have harmed. Is this not adding insult to injury? (reply to this comment)