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Getting Out : Inside Out
Family trouble in Brasil | from highonhigh - Tuesday, June 03, 2003
accessed 5574 times I just heard that all members of the Family in Brasil got partial excomunication for six month. I just heard that all family members in Brasil got partial excomunicated. That Peter went in person to lay down the rod on the disobedient family there. This will probably cause many people to leave , young & old. Some of the disciplinary measures are so abusive, no tv, video or outings for 6 months, no communication between homes, no internet, no one can leave the country, kids in system school have to be pulled out immediately etc. I don´t know all the details but apparently this is for real, is not a joke. I will see if I get in touch with with a friend there to confirm it. Does any one know anything about this? |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Vicky
Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 14:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
I've heard that all alcohol restrictions have been lifted in a recent GN??? Anyone able to confirm this? if it's true it would seem to be a desperate attempt to please the young people and hopefully keep them in... Could it be that the old methods of having a "shake-up" such as the one in Brasil are backfiring? Does anyone know yet how many people in Brazil have decided to leave TF since the ex-com was put into effect?
(reply to this comment)
| from virginia
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 12:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well,gee! I had heard about this as I live here in Brazil
but I didn´t know it was so bad! I honestly think that most
cm members will be a bunch of ass-kissers and will not
leave. (the only exception might be that a bunch will become FM which is ass-kissing all the same.) What the hell
does WS think it is? `We´ll make them pay! First,we cut off
their food supply,then their education,then their entertainment,and thy´ll all come running home! Yes,we are
geniuses!!` The sick bastards! Oh,right! I´m sorry,they still have to pay taxes to `God´s called and chosen`! I sometimes have to wonder how Zerby can sleep at night! That must be why she stays in a dark room during the day,because she stays up all the time! I went to those `Latin Loves`meetings before I left the Fam. and I got sick enough to puke! What a bunch of idiots! Peter pulled out some fotos of Zerby topless and all these sick adults were all dripping over them. Well,if she is the most beautiful woman
in the world,then the rest of us are all pigs! What a sick joke! Get a life and get off their backs,Zerby! Or am I forgetting that you are a queen and have to live in luxury or you´ll fall apart! I think you forgot your roots! From what I remember from your pics.Zerby,your `system`family seemed pretty poor!
(reply to this comment)
|  From dave
Wednesday, July 09, 2003, 19:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Zerby topless? What an awful sight, just thinking about it. The pictures I saw of her serveral years ago (with clothes on) looked like she was a barnyard wreck, a real mess. You could tell the years of darkness have taken their toll. She really can't stand the light. Zerby is certainly dilusional if she thinks she's some pretty hot thing to let people see her topless photos.(reply to this comment) |
| | from movingunder
Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 04:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Contrary to those that are coming out as “Prophets of Doom”, I tend to differ of opinion. What is happening in Brazil isn’t necessary a reflection of madness on the part of “Maria”. It seems to me that it’s most likely a well-calculated (although I sincerely hope if fails) strategy on the part of WS.
For more info see my article (in ALL MY Politics sub dir.) called:
Old Brazil vs. New Brazil THE WS CEO LATEST STRATEGY
(reply to this comment)
| from Lauren
Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:14
 (Agree/Disagree?)
On the subject of the Brazil excommunication, motives and finances:
I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine last night & learned a little something that I hadn't been aware of before. There are, in fact, two countries (perhaps more, but these are the "big" ones) from which WS cannot retrieve money due to extremely tight currency restrictions. They are South Africa and Brazil. In the case of Brazil, it seems the amount of funds has been quite large but the only thing that can be done with this money is to reinvest it back into Brazil. Not being able to utilize this money has been a long-time frustration for Peter and other Family leadership.
I am not saying that this is the reason why the country was excommunicated, but I did think it was an interesting factor that may have consicously or subconsciously played into the decision making process. WS & Family leadership had absolutely nothing to lose financially from cutting off the continent -- perhaps something to gain, since according to Family publications, they've been investing a lot of time (and money, obviously) trying to "pull Brazil up to standard" with flying leadership in there, having big meetings and so forth. What Brazil was really good at (and which Tea articulated quite well in his article "Cooked Your Own Goose") was winning souls and being missionaries -- especially by Family standards.
"Doing the math" regarding where Family leadership has its priorities is pretty simple. Too bad so many people in the Family (and on the Family Youth Group) can't add well enough to put 2 + 2 together.
(reply to this comment)
| from Christian?
Friday, June 06, 2003 - 16:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
In Zerby's list of restrictions for the Brazilian group members this (among many things) caught my eye
"Refrain from teaching material from System Christian books"
Just think, that might just include the Bible!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | From pharmaboy..
Tuesday, June 17, 2003, 04:32
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Get the fuck off this website!!
You really think that guys mom believed a word of the crap you told her??
You Family people are so fucking bored with your pathetic life, the only entertainment you get is from creating real-life soap opera scenes by spreading gossip and slander, going by the motto "faliure to report a crime is a crime". Fucking Police state Cult
Well, you and your 1984 wannabes can get gonoherra and die, because you decided you'll put your trust in the keys & reject modern medicine.
Oh, and last time I was in ZM & the VSs came to visit, I put thorazine and weed in a nice chocolate cake, I personally saw to the youth 'rebellion' & the closing down of all the homes in ZM, 90% of the young people there are out of the Cult now, thanks to me!!
By the way this is Pharmaboy speaking, an imaginary character, so Pharmaboy admitting to anything on this website is worth about as much as 'Dad speaking' on your sorry excuse for spiritual nuorishment(sp?) GNs.
.. In case I didn't make it clear enough, get AIDS and die!!!!
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From katrim4
Friday, June 06, 2003, 18:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
"10. Teach your sheep--your contacts, friends, relatives, Active members, or supporters--the Words of David in the form of publications produced by WS. Promote the Activated program. Refrain from teaching material from System Christian books."
Laiah, while that is implied it's not specified. Fam people are dumb enought to be in the Fam in the first place. You have to spell it out for them.
(reply to this comment) |
| | from Boom Baby
Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Something illuminating to me has been to look at the stated offenses of the Brazilian Family, translate into the language I speak now, and appreciate how I now may live.
"disobeying the Word, disunity, pride, compromise, gossip, criticism, rebelliousness, selfishness, ungodly behavior, and others . . . widespread compromise, division, and lack of living the Word, the Law of Love, and even the basic Christian sample and testimony that we, as Family members, profess to live."
Another interesting thing about this sudden mass sentencing is that it flies in the face of any due process. If I (yeah right) were a loyal, Word-living and Law-of-Love obedient, uncompromising, prideless, unselfish and sacrificial, godly-behaving, unrebellious, uncriticizing, never gossiping and undivisive on-the-track (and another brick in--I mean disciple on-- the wall) good sample testimony with no spiritual sins in Brazil, I would feel a sense of profound injustice. As if, but if I were I would chafe at the lack of notice followed by opportuniy to be heard, presumptions of innocence and burden of proof on the prosecution before a jury of my peers (those who have to eke out a living for a whole home with 2/3 kids as well as WS's living, and live under this absolute uncertainty, unpredictability and lack of control over the circumstances of one's own life, as opposed to Queen Peter and testes-money -- I mean testimony -- Maria), being heard and sentenced under known laws, ALREADY established democratically and subject to scrutiny, before a third-party impartial trained-in-the-profession and publicly accountable judge, appeals right, and on and on.
I don't know that the Family necessarily claims to have due process, but it is still striking to me how a group penalty can be imposed, especially when the Family is constantly claiming to outsiders when criticized for things that happen in the Family that individuals are so free to do whatever they want, the "Word" is sometimes just hyperbole and not always meant to be actually followed or implemented, so you can never blame the Family.
I guess the Family takes responsibilty for enforcing only what they care about, following their rules, and not such trivial offenses as abusing children, because when that happens it is suddenly an individual thing, unlike "criticism disunity and disobeying the Word," which really matter, and so the whole country is called to task and gets "the boom" lowered.
"The Lord has made it clear that these spiritual sins have caused the Brazilian Family to get seriously off track in many areas of their spiritual lives, and has resulted in the entire field of Brazil being weakened and compromised. Many of their young people, Active members, sheep, contacts, and friends have been stumbled and disillusioned as a result of seeing the widespread compromise, division, and lack of living the Word, the Law of Love, and even the basic Christian sample and testimony that we, as Family members, profess to live."
Are you sure about this? Sure they are not stumbled by the Family's "meaty" perversions and disillusioned by its [ ]? Because what stumbled me (and I was raised from birth with these familiar weirdnesses) WAS the Law of Love and its repercussions on my undervalued life, my parents and shepherd's obedience to the Word that robbed me of childhoo, virginity and health, to name part of their loot, and that complex that you call the "basic Christian sample and testimony" that you, "as Family members profess to live." Then when I spoke about my experiences at your hands, your reaction and the lies that I saw you spread finished off the disillusionment process.
(reply to this comment)
| from Tea
Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
In the meantime, others are picking up where the cult has left off, or fallen off:
http://www.wired.com/news/furthermore (All TARGET="_new">http://www.wired.com/news/furthermore">http://www.wired.com/news/furthermore (All You Need is Love)
(reply to this comment)
| from Anthony
Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 23:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is more of my back-and-forth with the Family Yahoo Youth Group.
ANTHONY: Interesting that tithing is still required even though the "tools" are being withheld. Anyone else catch that? And what's with turning in the HER funds, is WS broke? If so, this sounds like a great plan to get them out of the hole with free money earned from the hard
labor of the field homes who need it more.
Ktiana: i agree with you %100 there! i wonder what would happen if all brazil left or decided not to send in their tithes and her funds....? would the rest of the family have to pay more tax.. oops tithe to make up for it?
joan_clair: And while I'm in the mood (sigh), I don't mean to be nasty Anthony, but really, what the heck do you care? As far as I know, when somebody chooses to leave the Family it means they have gotten themselves a life elsewhere. So why the big need to be constantly looking back over the fence and trying to moderate whether the way the other kids are playing is right or wrong??
If it don't make sense, dude, it might be because you're a bit OUT OF
THE LOOP
:)
And just for reference, "tools" or "no tools", tithing is a Biblical principle, so I think that's enough said about that.
JoCeline Drumond: Hey, I took the liberty of going onto the Family website & I looked up, again, what Mama had stated & so I thought I might just add it here. I'm not trying to bash you, I'm just giving it to you word for word. Oh, and maybe next time you decide to bash the Family & it's leadership, read the fine print more thoroughly!
Beginning June 1st, the CM and FM Family in Brazil will suffer the withdrawal of all WS publications and productions. This means there will be:
- No GNs and no other adult publications.
- No children's or teen's publications.
- No new music CDs.
- No new books.
- The new publications and audio sections on the MO site will be blocked.
The one exception to this will be new GP distribution tools.
GBY!
Esther Almond Tree: The HER fund is for emergencies, as you very well know, which doesn't include the weekly shopping. The HER is also only supplied to CM homes, which is the reason that it's being withdrawn
Phileus Fogg: furthermore, i understand that 'tools' per se are not withheld.. all OR/FU/GP materials are still available - aren't they?
Meg Knoke: No, I didn't "catch" that. If you read the message properly you would see that it said, Beginning June 1st, the CM and FM Family in Brazil will suffer the withdrawal of all WS publications and productions. This means there will be:
- No GNs and no other adult publications.
- No children's or teen's publications.
- No new music CDs.
- No new books.
- The new publications and audio sections on the MO site will be blocked.
The one exception to this will be new GP distribution tools. Note the ONE EXCEPTION. I don't believe that the turning in of HER funds and continued tithing is "a great big plan to get money", as you put it. Personally, I think that if they are planning on returning to CM status and using the tools, then it's logical for them to still tithe. And I don't see any thing really "unfair" or "sinister" about it. Anthony: But a portion of the tithe is for the "new wine" as well as the "tools."
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From Anthony
Tuesday, June 10, 2003, 13:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
Esther Almond Tree: The tithe is given as unto the Lord. Not in hopes of getting something back, that's the principle of tithing. In the Old Testament it was just to support the priests. In most churches it's for the upkeep of the buildings, ours just happens to partially pay for the mailings. Anthony, I think you might consider just stopping the line of questioning your on. We know that you aren't really interested. Besides, you should know the answers to these already. LY. Be happy with the life you've chosen.
a_rieli: Site development, maintenance and improvement cost (though, granted, not nearly as much as printing/mailing), not to mention the Homes that can't rely on the postal system. In addition... Furthermore... :) The board structure has required (and will continue to require) a fair amount of investment, but it's all for the sole purpose of benefitting the Family at large. I have complete confidence (I'm not implying you don't) that every ruble is spent wisely, and that the benefits we reap extend far above and beyond any amount sent in or a minimum requirement.
Stephen Buckle: they're moving more & more towards online pubs/downloads etc.. which really don't cost anything. so we'll see how much really goes towards printing & mailing the new wine in the months/years to come.
DG: Do bear in mind that besides the actual printing and postage costs for the mags (which may - or may not be decreasing), there is ALSO the costs of creating (or recieving - as the case may be) the material! For that, you're talking about the people who write the articles (or the channels who recieve them), the editors, proof-readers and layout people (did I miss anyone) PLUS the costs all all the relevent equipment to enable them to do that job. (Oh yea, and basic living expenses to house and feed the people, along with those who cook and take care of the kids for them...) And that's all just to get the mags to you!
Then, as Ange pointed out, there is the Board structure, which requires funding to provide their service to the Family. As well as the Continental Offices and Officers, who are also part of the structure of the Family.
Add to that the various gifts which are given to pioneer teams all around the world - whether given on a regular basis or not - and I would say that the measly 10% Tithes are being well spent!
The way I look at it, the Family is in many ways like a club (leave aside our unique message, and the Word the Lord's blessed us with for a moment), and this club has both rules, and a membership fee. Now, no one is forced to be a member, but if you choose to be one, then you're expected to comply with the rules as well as pay the fees - that's just the way it is! If you don't like it, or don't feel that you're getting enough value for your payment (which I guess depends on how much you value the Word) then just leave - but don't then turn around and gripe about it all afterwards.
I guess for us young people growing up in the Family, we had a somewhat different perspective on the whole thing, since we were sorta 'forced' to be a part of it... just because our parents were. So, in looking at Tithes, the rules, or whatever, there can be the tendancy to forget that our parents were CHOOSING to remain a part of the Family - as well as to keep us in it - every day! So although we weren't always the ones making that choice, it was still a choice nonetheless.
Just a couple of comments I had regarding the posts on this theme of tithing and all...
Cheers and God bless!
;-)om
Cel: I'm not contradicting the fact that the Tithe is definitely put to good use - I know it is! I just thought to point out the minute detail that the boards are
not in function in Brazil so the Tithes sent from Brazil wouldn't be benefiting the Family in Brazil. - As in, going towards their Boards. Quoting Dom (who was also quoting Ange) "Then, as Ange pointed out, there is the Board structure, which requires funding to provide their
service to the Family.")
3. The board structure will no longer be in service in Brazil beginning June 1st. All board members, including VSs, will be dismissed. After November 30th, when the re-evaluation process is completed, the COs will begin to rebuild the board structure with members who have been reinstated as Charter members. Do not expect the board structure to be up and running again before the second quarter
of 2004. But yeah, the Tithes are definitely still put to good use. - Just straining at that gnat. (Cough cough...choke)
DG: My bad - I should have explained that I was speaking generally, not specifically about the Brazilian situation. I mean, hey, if they're not getting the mags, then the whole first paragraph about the creations team wouldn't apply either! Cheers and God bless! ;-)om
a_rieli: My email (and Dom's, I believe) was in answer to Buckle's generalized statement, not Brasil specifically, as that's clearly a different issue currently. Buckle seems to have clarified with "my point
exactly" that he intended to refer to Brasil specifically, not tithing
and Mailings in general (?), in which case, my response would be annulled.
Anthony: I agree with your analogy of the Family being like a club; however, if you're excommunicated/kicked out of a club or society, you are no longer required to pay the fees/dues of membership. This clearly isn't the case with the Family in Brazil. They are still required to
pay/tithe.
Each Family member in Brazil, whether Charter member or Fellow member, will be required to do the following DURING the period of June 1st to November 30th:
2. Tithe: Those wishing to qualify for reinstatement to CM status must tithe their full 14% (that's 10% tithe to WS, plus 1% FAF, and 3% Common Pot gifts); those wishing to qualify for reinstatement to FM status must tithe 10% to WS or $50 minimum if your income is less
than $500 US.
Esther Almond Tree: In this case they aren't being "kicked out", but are being given a chance to be reinstated fully by followoing the requirements set out for them.
joan_clair: I agree with Danny, and just to add to that: Continuing the club analogy--the Family in Brazil has not (as stated earlier) been "kicked out of" the Family; they are simply getting a punitive measure. The fact that their term has a beginning and end, providing they meet the guidelines and expectations given (of living like a
disciple, tithing, etc.), shows that they are not banned on a permanent basis, but rather once their term is over they are ostensibly able to be reinstated.
It stands to reason that, for example, someone suspended from a sports team for repeated infraction of the rules would want to keep up their training and following the guidelines of their coach and team even during the interim time, so that when their suspension is over they can get right back into the swing of things.
DG: Yes, in the case of Brazil, their continuing to pay their Tithe is a pre-requisite for them to be re-accepted into the 'club' - the Family. Pretty simple, they don't NEED to pay it... unless they want to rejoin. Cheers and God bless! ;-)om
Anthony: Right! Now how fair is that?
andruss: COME ON!! First of all! tithe is not unto man! its unto the LORD! Read your Bible!...if you still believe in it. And why do care anyway? everyone in the Family is as
"aware" as you are, if they one day feel like it's
"unfair" to tithe, they'll leave! No one is being forced to do anything!
DG: How fair is not abiding by the rules for membership in the group? Sounds sorta like a fine to me.
Now, before this goes any further, I'm going to state that I DON'T know all the details of the situation - and definitely not enough to give an informed opinion of what happened. I guess the difference between you and I is that I trust that Mama and Peter have and will act in only in the best interests, not only of the Family as a whole, but also of the individuals involved.
I also trust that through their connection with the Lord they have a far better perspective of the situation than I do, so I'm not going to set myself up to judge their decisions. Cheers and God bless! ;-)om
Anthony: OK, OK, I get it, god, who created the heavens and the earth, and all that is contained therin, still needs our money. Of course the tithe is unto man/woman, otherwise, one would only need send a check to heaven or the moon, or wherever one thinks god to reside. What's
the current exchange rate in god's house, anybody know?
andruss: Are you really as dumb and dense as you seem? or do you just pretend?
Anthony: Well, I admit I was being slightly facetious, given my penchant for ostensibly opulent and caustic induce laughter; but appearing dumb... moi?
I am also wondering if individuals in the Brazil family have been given a chance to defend themselves against allegations of wrong doing, or is it taken for granted that every member in that country is "guilty" of breaking the rules.
Gabe: Romans 3:23
Aaron Shepherd: Romans 3:28 ?!
Gabe: hmmm... Rom 6:15.
Eman: Good one Gabe!
Yes, Anthony, Brazil is a very large and crowded area. Its easy to
look at it from that point of wiew; How can they possibly judge us s
So?
Well, first of all they did not accuse us all of breaking the rules.
Even the individuals that didnt actively colaborate to the decaying
of the Family Spirit, didnt really do anything about it. As in, we
should have lifted the standard when we saw it fall. I personally saw
very little of that, so I dont really mind that I have been labelled
guilty.
Sort of like in that court case movie ("few good men"?) the
innocent little "pawns" where in the end guilty because they didnt DO
anything about the obvious wrongdoing going on all around them.
Sounds harsh, yes, but in Brazil from the things going on, there
should have been (at least) a massive reclassification straight to FM
status of at maybe 60 percent of the CM family here (thats just my
personal oppinion, but Im sure a lot of ppl here share my view) due
to our attitude (or LACK of attitude) towards the CvsC letters. and
basically all the letters since S2K. resulting in just NOT the Family
spirit anymore.
But I see it this way, we HAVE been given a chance to defend
ouselves against these "allegations of wrongdoing", cuz in a way,
these six months are a chance to prove ourselves not only guiltless -
as He abundantly pardons, but worthy of being part of this endtime
army.
"whoever wants to make it can make it" is what they said.
NTL: Good points, Eman. Very healthy way of looking at the situation. BTW, which Eman are you? NTL Gabe: I agree that it is a hard saying to go so across the board with such a heavy
punishment because of course some are way more guilty than others. I
suppose they felt like drastic measure were needed to get the field back on
track and it would be totally impossible to judge every single person to see
if they deserved it or not. But the Lord sees each of our hearts and
ultimately he's the one that's in control. There is also precedence for this though. If you'll recall in ISam 15:3 God told Israel to slay the Amalekites... both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. Of course some were way more evil than the others... and I'm sure the babies and animals weren't to blame. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me: Well, Joe H. was right, they are swine and I'm done wasting my time with them. I mean, they really are a toss and a lick away from being just as guilty as our parents of willful ignorance. They have more opportunities to see and leave the errors of the cult than most of did; yet, they choose not to. Thus, it's hard to have sympathy for them as if they were poor dumb sheep, especially since they are the ones who most likely will carry on the evil after most of the old dirty bastards die off and are eaten by worms.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From dave
Tuesday, June 10, 2003, 15:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
Interesting dialogue here Anthony. It's clear the cult is ripping these people off in the name of god. Stupid dump sheep who don't mind being fleeced.. well, if those who KNOW it and don't care, they almost deserve it don't they? I like the intellectual way you get under their skin. All they can do is quote Bible references as their explaination.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Bendi
Tuesday, June 10, 2003, 11:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol!!! Weep, Snort, Wiping Tears, More Weeping and Snorting.....But I suppose you do just have to feel sorry for them, the poor deluded souls!!!!(reply to this comment) |
| | From roughneck
Saturday, June 07, 2003, 17:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Anthony, I don't know what exactly has changed since I was in, but if memory serves, monthly tithe never went towards GP distribution tools, as the cost of these was always set aside as "seed corn", which was over and above the 14% tithe. Basically WS is still getting 14% tithe without delivering the "goods". The list price on any "GP Distribution tools" ordered is over and above your 14% tithe, is my point. If it helps, think of "tithe" as federal taxes, and "seedcorn" as state/municipal taxes. Both onerous, yet separate.
L.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From faeriraven
Wednesday, July 09, 2003, 13:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
Maybe if they stoped spouting off so much BS then they wouldn't have to use so much of TF's money to publish it - Coming up w/ a new revelation every month or new 'teachings' was not asked for by the general population of TF. I feel that if they see the need to share this crucial information with TF then they should be the ones to finance it. Just like if you work in a business, you pay for advertising, etc. What ever happened to the good ol' Bible? Is that not good enough for them anymore that they have to write their own opinions etc. I don't see WS helping TF pay for their Newsletters that they put out. Yes, general organizations etc. charge dues per month or year or whatever the case may be, but you usually have use of their facilities, even churches do not tell you that if you do not tithe to their church you can not be a member. In the bible it says to tithe what you can, to the LORD - nowhere does it say that if you do not tithe to WS then you 'are out of the spirit' and do not deserve to be in their cult. What if you tithe to members that are still in TF but NOT to WS...someone who you feel is actually doing a good service and helping people etc. Apparently according to TF that is unacceptable and punishable by 'law'. That, is unacceptable in my eyes, and I for one do not belive how they think they have the right to say otherwise.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Controlling Auntie
Wednesday, July 09, 2003, 18:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
*Gasp!* How dare you refer to the Word of God as "spouting off so much BS"??
--Actually, my feelings exactly.
Also, I agree with your comments about the high "dues" for zilch benefit. I don't know many organizations that charge dues of 14% of your income! Actually, I can't think of any.
Hey, maybe it's a way to make sure their "disciples" don't belong to any other organization. I mean, who can afford any other dues? The academics write about how few possesssions TF people have. Durn right, after tithe, can't afford none!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From EyesWideShut
Friday, June 06, 2003, 11:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, they have a "members only site". In fact, that's what it's called, familymembersonly.com or something like that. Used to be they printed the password to the site in the monthly Grapevine mag, but now you have to have all kinds of home numbers and private passwords to get on. Suprisingly however, there have been a few times when our very own Jules posted new developments before anyone in the Family had heard of them, ie: the Vandari thing.
Know any good hackers? (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Anthony
Friday, June 06, 2003, 18:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
I know Joe, and I may stop soon, or not. Sometimes you just need that little bit of encouragement to make the right decision, I know I would've left the cult years before I finally did, had I been exposed to reason. But then again, I may stop because as Joan pointed out the Bible says to tithe, and not even I can argue against the Bible. :p(reply to this comment) |
| | From farmer
Saturday, October 25, 2003, 21:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
First of all I was happy to hear, that the family in Brazil gave WS trouble...any mor trouble in other places of the world would be welcome...more people waking up..
But then, are you serious about the tithing, I think it was Ed
Priebe, who pointed it out, that tithing is just not the NT-thing, look on his website...before I even read his stuff, I was convinced of non-tithing...where`s the temple now, who are the priests??...I believe in collections...Paul had a hard
time getting enough for his living from the churches, yet his words are exceeding more precious than the WS-crap(reply to this comment) |
| | From lacy
Thursday, June 12, 2003, 19:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
I totally agree with you Anthony. I have had the same exact torturous question. What are they thinking ?-that sending 14% of everything to an address given to you by "God's Leaders" would make you spiritually correct? and that's "tithing to God" according to the Bible? Somebody needs a slap!! I mean, why not just write "GOD" on an envelope and stick it in the mail box with your hard earned money inside and hope in full faith it makes it to him?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From porceleindoll
Sunday, June 08, 2003, 21:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
Exactly what I think, and what disturbs me is that the Family so easily tossed out the 10 Commandments from the OT based on Jesus who said 'On this hang all the law and the prophets' and other NT verses that indicated you didn't need to follow the OT laws anymore, but then they use the OT tithing policies and enforce it on its members. This is a lack of consistency, you either take it all or don't take it all. You can't say 'Jesus said we don't need the OT laws cause love is it man! So therefore, adultery is permissible...' but then say 'tithing is a required Biblical requisite, therefore you need to do it in order to remain part of this group...'. It's a 'pick and choose' religion and in my opinion, an abuse of the Bible.
Of course, it's none of my business if the present members living there don't care and continue to turn in their tithes and follow this group, but it doesn't make sense to me. But on the other hand, I'm no longer wrapping things up in faith and sticking them on a shelf until I can understand them. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From mikio
Monday, June 09, 2003, 12:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Anthony, I understand that Ur curious to know what they think on FY. I thought of another side. Many people in TF (I think) are pretty isolated physically from other fam members, and if U let the Brazil people be, they will probably get reaaaally bored w/ no alchohol, parties, movies, internet, and all, and the prospect of another 6 mo.s of it if they broke the Charter -- if they get some nice isolation, they can think about whether it's really worth it, paying for nothing (they soon discover life without GNs aint too bad, and that 14%).
On the other hand, nothing brings people together like a common enemy, attack their way of life and the knee-jerk reaction is to defend it -- and the more U defend it, the more U sell it to Urself all over again -- besides, defending from yr posts is probably the only fun thing left for many in Brazil. Let them stew in isolation, hey, they're not even allowed here on this exmem site, (reply to this comment) |
| | From Jerseygirl
Monday, June 09, 2003, 18:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
Not to get off the topic but seriously, it never ceases to amaze me that these "family youth" peoples have so much time on their hands to be furiously typing away on the internet. What happened to outreach and wordtime??? Looks like the cult really needs to pull up its socks in a few more continents than just poor Brazil. Maybe the King and Queen should excomm the whole worldwide family and the homes should just take the money and run.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | from glorena
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 21:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, it is very sad for me to read this especially considering the fact that I was just about to go down there on a project I just got the funding for. I was hoping to work with some of my good friends that I have in the family. But now there will be so much fear and exclusivity in the air. I have to say I am not surprised. The bottom line is, now it will bring those who are on the fence about leaving closer to making a decision to leave. Unfortunately, most people stay in the family like a young child continues to nurse long after the "need" for that nurishment is gone. It is for the comfort and the fear of letting go of that bond. But as nature dictates, the baby eventually has to stop nursing or else he ends up getting sick of the habit. Maybe that is the intent of this whole thing. To "purge" the family and let off "weaker" elements so to speak. It certainly will be interesting to see this situation evolves.
(reply to this comment)
| from Lauren
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 15:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh, I really laughed to think of Zerby all dressed up with her sackcloth, yoke and rod. I would've loved to have seen that. It just goes to show that the Family is either run by toddlers or is comprised of toddlers because everything they do has to be acted out with skits and visual ceremonies. Does anybody remember the feast days when we all had to pledge our loyalty to Peter and Maria & were required to perform a ceremony for that? We had to dedicate someone in the home to sit in a chair and be Maria and someone else to be Peter and everyone else came and knelt before them and said their pledge. Where I was, we laughed so hard we barely got through the ceremony. Every other year there's some new feast day ceremony. I have often wondered if anybody but the very elite have taken them seriously. The sackcloth goes right along with the toddler mentality.
Unwittingly or deliberately, I am not sure, the Family leadership has just created the perfect petri dish for malcontent within the Brazil Family.
Leadership has just taken away every single form of entertainment or amusement known to mankind with the exception of sex (be on the lookout for a boom in the baby population starting about 9 months from June 1st) & exercise. What this spells is extreme boredom.
We've all been taught so well that an idle mind is the Devil's workshop. Accordingly, Family leadership has just created the largest idle mind workshop in Family history.
Supposedly during this time of chastisement, all Family members in Brazil are supposed to be immersing themselves in the Word -- old Word -- since they won't be getting the new stuff for at least 6 months, if not longer -- and prayer. This serves two very usefully purposes for the Devil's workshop crew:
1) The human mind can only take so much indoctrination. Especially if you've become immune to it over two decades of "Word time". After awhile -- even for the most dedicated of disciples -- the stuff just goes in one ear and down the toilet. 2) When you don't get the new stuff, all of a sudden you realize you're not missing all that much & you begin to wonder if it's really worth $300 bucks a month.
I am assuming that cutting off the Family members from themselves, each other, "negative" outsiders & all system influence is supposed to help everyone get desperate and appreciate the Family enough to want to change their "bad habits". It seems to me that this is going to completely back-fire. This is because:
1) Getting "system" input in small doses (ie, movies, video games, etc.) satiates the desire for it enough that you don't feel you have to leave the Family to get it. Not having it at all causes withdrawls. 2) Discussing "doubts" with ex-Family members usually causes the knee-jerk reaction of having to defend the Family. No longer having to defend it will allow one's own doubts to fester freely. 3) Limiting contact with mainly those you live with causes people (particularly young people) to go stir-crazy. 4) Extreme boredom speaks for itself.
This is of course, all speculative. We have no idea what kind of effect this is going to have on those poor sods. I wish we could get our hands on statistics -- how many people are in Brazil now, how many will remain in the CM Family, FM Family, etc.
Out of curiosity: Does anyone happen to know what the Word requirements are, as per the GN "What Is Jesus Worth to You?" (ML #3433)H
I wish that we could say that this whole ordeal will make it easier for people who want to leave to go -- or those who have been sitting on the fence to make up their minds to split. I do feel for anybody who wants to get out of there but happens to be in a real "dedicated" home, because the pressure to conform is going to be extreme.
(reply to this comment)
| From Laiah
Friday, June 06, 2003, 17:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Lauren, the requirements for Word are 2 hours of quality Word time. That means only studying, not teaching classes or children, and not devotions unless you are actually paying attention. You are also supposed to have 1/2 an hour of prayer vigil each day. Listening to a tape while exercising etc. does not count as Word time anymore.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | from PompousJohn
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 09:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think what's happenning is WS is low on cash, so many homes are tithing the minimum if at all and realising the HER is just as green as any other money. So they want to gather up the HER funds to make up for the deficit caused by people not tithing, and let the rest of the world know that they better start sending in that money again.
Generally I think they are realising the charter is not working out, and more controls need to be put in place. I think a poll would reveal that most of us began to ease our way out shortly after the charter was released, and it wouldn't surprise me if they do away with it completely fairly soon, or start calling anyone who cites it an "old bottle", the standard term for anyone who points out contradictions in TF's written directives.
(reply to this comment)
| From Dictionary (recovering Missionary)
Thursday, June 05, 2003, 14:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
I read the definitions below in Black's Law Dictionary, sixth edition (West Group, St. Paul, MN) some time ago, and was struck by the difference between a charter and a constitution, especially how they differ as to their source (the "King" vs. the "people.").
I was wondering after I read these definitions whether the Family has any accountability when they "amend" the charter, as I have seen references on this site to "amendments" to the charter. Does anybody know whether there is such a process that is followed, where people vote on whether to ratify the "amenmdents," or are they simply decreed from above? It seems like a rather moot question now, after reading about this Brazil fiasco (which is simply decreed from above and apparently overrides unilaterally any existing understanding the Charter members may have felt they had).
Now I'm really proud of myself. I managed to restrain myself from using the word "farce" in two whole paragraphs!
DEFINITIONS (emphasis added)
"Charter, n. An instrument emanating from the sovereign power, in the nature of a grant, either to the whole nation, or to a class or portion of the people, to a corporation, or to a colony or dependency, assuring to them certain rights, liberties, or powers. Such was the "Great Charter" or "Magna Charta," and such also were the charters granted to certain of the English colonies in America.
A charter differs from a *constitution*, in that the former is granted by the sovereign, while the latter is *established by the people
themselves.*"
"Constitution. The organic and fundamental law of a nation or state,
which may be written or unwritten, establishing the character and
conception of its government, laying the basic principles to which its internal life is to be conformed, organizing the government, and regulating, distributing, and *limiting* the functions of its different departments, and *prescribing the extent and manner of the exercise of its sovereign powers.* A charter of government *deriving its whole authority from the governed.* The written instrument *agreed upon by the people* of the Union (e.g. United States Constitution) or of a particular state, as the absolute rule of action and decision *for all departments (i.e. branches) and officers of the government*
in respect to all the points covered by it, which must control until it
shall be changed *by the authority which established it* (i.e. by
amendment), and *in opposition to which any act or ordinance of any such department or officer is null and void.*"
(reply to this comment) |
| | From dave
Thursday, June 05, 2003, 13:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Good point John. After years of poorly managed funds, WS is in need for cash, and fast. What people in Brazil ought to do is take this as a definite sign to leave the cult once and for all... with their HER funds. It's their money. It seems to me this whole situation is a gamble ultimatum by Queen Peter and Zerby. On one hand, if the people in Brazil 'turn around' and act like dumb sheep like the rest of the cult, WS funds may see some increase in the next quarter. But this could also go the other way: People in Brazil may just decide to call it quits. This is not the type of reaction Queen Peter is counting on. As we wait and see most of Brazil leave the cult, I bet more and more people in other Latin American countries will follow suit. And speaking of "worldliness", how come more countries haven't been included, places like Japan, Australia, the U.S. and parts of Europe? Is it because those countries are sending more money to WS they're given a bit more leniency? (reply to this comment) |
| | From Lauren
Thursday, June 05, 2003, 15:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Here's my theory on the whole financial issue: The Family Queens are not bluffing. They don't want people in their group that don't conform to their way of working. They are perfectly content to slice off the entire Brazil work if necessary and they don't really care if anybody comes back or not unless they come back on "their" terms.
I don't know about anybody else's personal experience in the Family, but I can say for my own that money talks. I have seen Family leadership to be a whole lot more lenient on people who brought in the big money (or were big names, big producers, big etc.) than on the little people, the poor and especially those that required hand-outs in order to be missionaries.
If, for example, Brazil as a whole was bringing in 50% of WS income each month, what then? I actually have no idea, but I do have my suspicions that the "chatisement" might have been a little more specified to certain areas/homes/people. It would seem that there is not a huge amount of finances to be lost from WS coffers if the entire country chooses not to come back.
The recalling of the HER, I see as a measure to make sure they don't lose any more than necessary. Assuming, that there are 50 CM Homes in Brazil (I have no idea how many there actually are) and that each one has the standard $2,000 in HER funds, I can certainly see a bit of trepidation over the fact that much of that may possibly walk if the members walked. (It also stands to note that FM Homes do not retain HER funds, and since they aren't sure how many people will be coming back as CM, it's a whole lot easier to get it back now than to try to get it back after they've just reclassified a Home). Why they think they have any right to that money I do not understand as it was never theirs to begin with. It always belonged to the Family members in the first place since that is where it came from.
WS finances have, by any non-Family definition of the word, been sorely mis-managed. However, cutting off an entire country to glean the HER funds is an example of killing the goose that laid the golden egg considering that Brazil probably brings more than half of their collective HER if they are paying only the barest minimum of tithes. Family leadership may be deluded, they may even be insane, but they are not altogether entirely stupid. And cutting loose an entire country in order to pull the HER in order to make up for slacking income would be extremely stupid considering that WS probably eats through $100,000 or more every month.
In my opinion, the motive is control & conformity, not finances. "It is no great financial loss, pull the HER to keep the losses to a minimum and if they come back they'll obey us more than they used to". Obviously this is all merely speculation.
I, for one, would love to believe that WS is cannabalizing itself to fuel its financial needs, but unfortunately I don't think this is the case. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Follow the Money
Sunday, June 08, 2003, 14:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Right, because then there is the money from Family Care Foundation. What was it, something like $1,800,000 (that would be one million eight hundred thousand) in 2001.
Does anybody know how the trail for this big money goes? What path to the point of the "projects" (i.e., to the ex-shepherds of brothels (aka FF Homes) and other tax-evading racketeering (aka the local PPC) reinvented as ministries of who knows what (I have seen the pictures myself) and beyond?
A huge portion (AT LEAST the mandatory 14%) of the money claimed "distributed" by Family Care Foundation to "projects" that are actually Family Homes must go back to Zerby as the required tithes! Talk about Corporate fraud.
"Oh, but the Family has no money to help out all of our throwaway kids. They are not deserving because they had the ultimate privilege of being born to the only truth and they rejected it. Only people who may still accept our one and only way deserve humanitarian concern." (reply to this comment) |
| | From Follow the Money
Sunday, June 08, 2003, 14:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
Just a note, 14% of 1.8 Million is over one quarter of a million dollars. Nice lining for Zerby's pockets.
When I was a kid my parents had to tithe even on "provisioned" goods, including the meager food we ate, which often left them in the uncomfortable position of owing more cash for the tithe than they had as income. That's where FFing came in handy. Awful memories. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From dave
Friday, June 06, 2003, 07:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
This this fiasco could very well be the result of poor management decision-making from the cult's top brass. This all sounds like a Zerby initiative. The rest of WS and the CROs, like most people at the top of whatever institution or political circles their in, tend to just go along not wanting to buck the tide to save their comfortable positions. I'm of the opinion that if all Brazil left the group permanently, retaining their HER funds alone would not severely dent the already hemorrhaging money purses dangling on the arm of the WS finance guy. Queen Peter does have some strategy: If this Brazil "correction" works out the way he hopes, then hey, they have more dedicated disciples... making more money. If this turns out to be a bad day in Sarajevo, well, they can finally let go of a country that they obviously consider a liability anyway. But the potential income that can be generated in Brazil, providing new and inventive ways are developed is what I don’t understand WS is willing to let go of. In the old days, didn't they dispatch VSs to problem areas to try to establish some type of order and also to send some kind of encouragement and offer folks on the field a little hope?
This remote inquisition should infuriate the whole Family and ought to demonstrate just how intolerant and out of touch the cult leadership is. Wasn’t Brazil always in the top categories for souls saved and cult media distributed? WS has more than a small beef with Brazil. Maybe there’s more to this theater than realized or mentioned. Will WS come out with a Press Release one day soon and disassociate themselves from the Brazil Family in order “preserve” the rest of the cult?
By the way, the Golden Age of Grotesque is an excellent album, a nice follow-up to Holy Wood.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From highonhigh
Thursday, June 05, 2003, 17:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
I know for a fact that most of the latin coutries are under some heavy governament currency exchange control. So the money they are making in Brasil they can turned into us dollars unless they do it on the black market. Maybe when they realized they were loosing more than gaining they decided to just cut of the whole thing get back whatever money they can with the HER funds.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Lauren
Thursday, June 05, 2003, 18:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
I cannot say for sure how it works in South America. But I do know from my experiences in North America that the money does not ALL filter up to the top.
WS pays for the CO opperating budget, it pays to print the mailings, it pays for certain service homes and some translating units amongst other things.
So let's say for example that WS gets 5,000/ month in tithes from the Homes in Brazil. The money, via the ABMs or whoever is responsible to collect it makes its way to the CRO office. There it is disbursed into whatever budgets it is allotted to. (For example: CO home operating budget, $3,000, PPC: $1,500, Translators: $500, etc.) Say, also, that some home in Japan sent $1,000 to a home in Brazil as a gift. The money never actually leaves Japan. Instead, the Brazil office will issue $1,000 worth of the local currency from the money they have on hand from the Brazil tithes to the home that is supposed to get it. In this way, the money does not usually move from country to country.
If there is more money coming in from tithes than is going out, then it accumulates. Like I said, I don't know how it works in countries where there are severe currency restrictions, but in the US because of tax laws, they would keep the money in bank accounts belonging to foreigners. (In the United States any withdrawal or deposit over $2,000 into a bank account or purchased/cashed by money order is reported to the IRS. But since foreigners live under different tax rules, they kept the money in the name of foreigners so as not to raise suspicions). [Does this spell tax evasion?] When the money needed to get moved from one country to the next (I assume moved upwards along the line of command), then they did it the good ol' fashioned money laundering way: Carried it over the borders in cash.
I would assume that in a country like Brazil, WS might actually have to send money there. Whereas with a country like the United States, there was a regular stream of money moving out. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Tim R
Wednesday, June 04, 2003, 19:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah, they'll pull the old "Gideons band" trick, and say that the Charter still holds, but only for "Associate" members. "Real Dedicated 110%'s will want to go all the way with God's new vision!..etc.."
On the positive side, some Ya's and teens are going to have a lot of fun secretly listening to system music and sneaking out to see movies. I hardly go to see movies anymore, they're too boring. In a way I miss being able to brake all those rules. Candy bars and cola just aren't as much fun without the threat of a Demerit. (Sob)
Here's a free trick for any Family teens reading this: Get a reversible walkman and a Memory Book song tape, record system music on one side but leave the family music on the other. Put the tape in the walkman with the Family side "Up", in other words on the side the tape player will go to first when you turn it on. Then flip it over to the other side and enjoy your system music, whenever an Adult or teen traitor comes up to ask what you're listening to, turn off the tape to talk to them, then offer them the headphones and hit play. (Do this before they ask you what's on it.) It should start up on the family side automatically.
The tape will play some approved song, you will make some innane comment about "...what inspiring music the Lord's blessed us with!.." and the Adult will smile and walk away. You will then flip the play side back over and go on enjoying your tune.
Next week: How to make wine from donated over-ripe fruit, bread yeast and hundreds of those little sugar packets you can get from fast food restaurants. ;-) (reply to this comment) |
| | from Jules
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 06:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was wondering about the laws on compulsory education in Brazil, and did a quick search, and found this, stating apparently that homeschooling is illegal in Brazil: http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/washingtontimes/200102200.asp http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/washingtontimes/200102200.asp">http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/washingtontimes/200102200.asp >
Does anyone know if this is still the case?
(reply to this comment)
| from xhrisl
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 05:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
The shear mindnumbing stupidity...I'm sitting here with a smile on my face, contemplating the desperate prayer measures and get right with god time the poor saps in Brazil are going through. Ahhh, the joys of being free to think for oneself.
(reply to this comment)
| from 4am_Insomniac
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 02:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
No way! That is one of the most bizarre things I've heard in a long time -- I wouldn't be surprised if king pecker tried to take cool-aid down to Brazil with him, it would only be in order with all this nonsense.
(reply to this comment)
| from highonhigh
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 02:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
It breaks my heart to think about the kids & teens. People our age will probably just get out & leave, I sure hope so. But when I think bout teens 12, 13, 14, I went through so much on my early teen years, I just can imagine how dificult it´s going to be all this restrictions for the kids. My mom has a friend that it is in a cm home in Brasil this home send their kids to a small christian school because the personnel in the home can´t supply the education needs of the children because there is to many & to many different levels to teach & now they have to pull all their kids out of school because they belive that P&M are the end time prophets. Imagine all the kids now stuck in the house reading whatever they will be sending to brain wash them. It´s to sad. I wish I could do something
(reply to this comment)
| from Anthony
Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 00:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Anthony: Will NTL still be hosting this group (Family Youth @ Yahoo) in light of the "A Shake Up in Brazil" GN? Assuming he's still in Brazil.
Sara: Good question, will you NTL? I just asked him this same question today, as I thought he'd take a break from it to spend more time in the word and other very important matters occurring here and now. I even thought he'd ask our dear Dominic to host it while he takes a vacation. NTL?
NTL: Hey (Anthony) , (are you in Brazil?). As far as we've been informed, emails and business-related web use is still allowed (as in normal partial ex-comms). But I will probably be stepping back from much participation in the FY. I started this newsgroup nearly 3 years ago and about 2 years ago I asked Dom to help with me with moderating as I didn't have time to keep up with everything. (I think he's working on a world-wide map of where all our members live.) Since the group is quite "set" and in place, I think it will carry on just fine as long as we're all mature and do our best to contribute good posts.
NTL
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | from Anthony
Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 23:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sounds like she should have a noose instead of a yoke.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Jules
Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 16:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
I can confirm this. Someone sent me the following from Zerby. I can't imagine being subjected to such arbitrary drama.
********************************************
A Shake Up in Brazil
By Mama
Dear Family,
God bless you all! I want to explain to you about some major changes that are taking place within the Brazil Family. You'll probably start hearing bits and pieces soon through the Family verbal "grapevine," if you haven't already. You'll be receiving more information about all of this in upcoming GNs.
For quite some time now Peter and I have known that the Family in Brazil has not been doing well spiritually. In recent years, the Lord has given a fair bit of specific counsel to the South American field, including Brazil, which was delivered personally to them when Peter went on the "Latin Loves" tour in March and April 1999. At that time the Lord gave a lot of specific counsel for them, which we published for them in GNs sent only to the SACRO area, entitled, "To My Latin Loves." Despite the Lord's warnings and correction in those GNs (excerpts of which were printed in the KTV GN series) and countless other warnings and GNs of counsel on similar problems which the Lord has given for the entire Family, the work in Brazil has continued to manifest very serious ongoing problems as a result of many sins, such as disobeying the Word, disunity, pride, compromise, gossip, criticism, rebelliousness, selfishness, ungodly behavior, and others.
The Lord has made it clear that these spiritual sins have caused the Brazilian Family to get seriously off track in many areas of their spiritual lives, and has resulted in the entire field of Brazil being weakened and compromised. Many of their young people, Active members, sheep, contacts, and friends have been stumbled and disillusioned as a result of seeing the widespread compromise, division, and lack of living the Word, the Law of Love, and even the basic Christian sample and testimony that we, as Family members, profess to live. In short, these sins and disobediences have pulled the Brazilian Family off the wall of discipleship.
In order to rectify the very serious state the Brazil Family had gotten into, the Lord showed Peter and me that radical, sweeping changes were needed in Brazil. After much desperate prayer, counsel with the SACRO COs, and hearing from the Lord, our Husband gave His message for the field of Brazil. His message was not one of continued tolerance and encouragement, with just a little bit of direction and guidance. It was one of lowering the boom, applying the rod, administering correction and punishment. The Lord's message to the Family in Brazil is very sobering and strong, and He laid it on my heart to deliver this message to the Family in Brazil personally, via video. The transcript of this message is contained in the GN that you will receive shortly called "Woe!"
Before I made this video for Brazil, delivering God's sobering message of warning to the Family there—wearing red sackcloth, a yoke around my neck, and holding a rod—the Lord showed us that Peter should go to Brazil with a team from our Home (Misty and Joy) to counsel with the COs and to spearhead this revolution and change in Brazil. The Lord gave clear instruction that this mission would be one of correction and judgment, and that there would be consequences meted out to the Family in Brazil as a result of their long-term disobediences. The message was clear: All would not continue as it was!
During Peter and team's six-week stay in Brazil in April and early May, they met with most of the SACRO CO teamwork and were able to counsel and pray further about the work in Brazil. Peter filmed a number of videos while in Brazil, explaining in detail the sins that have permeated the Brazilian work, as well as explaining the resultant punishments and consequences, followed by a prayer of deliverance.
A ten-day meeting was also held during this time, with about 30 representatives from around Brazil, and these attendees viewed the nearly 11 hours of video (both mine and Peter's). Many of these attendees then became the Designated Representatives appointed to show these videos to the rest of the Family in Brazil.
Beginning on May 23rd, simultaneous video showings were held throughout Brazil, enabling the majority of the Brazilian Family to view the videos on the same weekend.
We will be sharing the main thrust of the Lord's message to the Family in Brazil with you in the "Woe!" GN and other GNs that you should receive over the coming months, Lord willing. As I said earlier, there are also consequences for the field of Brazil, and I'm including an outline of them for you below. As you read these punishments, you'll see that the Lord is very serious about the revolution and shake up He's precipitating in Brazil, and I hope this will cause you to pray about what areas of your life you might be falling short in.
Many Family members worldwide are guilty of the sins that the Lord is dealing with the Brazilian Family about, so please pray about this personally. Don't point the finger. Pray for your Family in Brazil, and let the news of the punishment they are undergoing now sober you and make you check your own heart and life, and get right with the Lord.
Below is an outline of the punishments that the Lord has set in place for all Family members in Brazil, lasting six months. (The below excerpts are taken from the printed notice that was sent to the Brazil Family, which is why it is directed to them.)
Due to the Brazilian Family's ongoing disobedience, rebelliousness, and division, in spite of numerous warnings, the following blessings will be withdrawn:
1. All Charter members and Fellow members in Brazil will lose their discipleship status beginning June 1st. This period of probation will continue through November 30th, 2003, after which there will be a nationwide re-evaluation, and it will be determined over the course of several months who will be reinstated to full Family membership and at what classification.
From June 1st until you are notified of your new status (which will be sometime toward the end of 2003 or in the first part of 2004), you who aspire to regain your CM status are to concentrate on being or becoming a disciple of Jesus, as per the instruction in the "Conviction versus Compromise" series and in the Love Charter. You who aspire to regain your FM status must abide by the Statement for Fellow Members.
The only exceptions to this loss of discipleship status will be the COs.
2. During this period the Family in Brazil will forfeit the right to read new publications and to receive other productions from WS, unless such things are directly related to this discipline (such as reading lists, instructions for prayer and fast days, GNs related to your field, etc.).
Beginning June 1st, the CM and FM Family in Brazil will suffer the withdrawal of all WS publications and productions. This means there will be:
- No GNs and no other adult publications.
- No children's or teen's publications.
- No new music CDs.
- No new books.
- The new publications and audio sections on the MO site will be blocked.
The one exception to this will be new GP distribution tools.
3. The board structure will no longer be in service in Brazil beginning June 1st. All board members, including VSs, will be dismissed. After November 30th, when the re-evaluation process is completed, the COs will begin to rebuild the board structure with members who have been reinstated as Charter members. Do not expect the board structure to be up and running again before the second quarter of 2004.
4. All Family members in Brazil will retain their right of mobility to change Homes within the country. However, their right of mobility to change countries has been suspended until they have passed through the six months of chastisement, have been re-evaluated and have been reinstated to whatever level of membership they qualify for.
5. You will need to turn in your Home's HER fund.
* * *
Each Family member in Brazil, whether Charter member or Fellow member, will be required to do the following during the period of June 1st to November 30th:
1. Send in a monthly TRF.
2. Tithe: Those wishing to qualify for reinstatement to CM status must tithe their full 14% (that's 10% tithe to WS, plus 1% FAF, and 3% Common Pot gifts); those wishing to qualify for reinstatement to FM status must tithe 10% to WS or $50 minimum if your income is less than $500 US.
3. Fast worldly input for the duration of the chastisement period, from the time you see the videos but not later than June 1st until November 30th. The fast will include the following: movies, TV, alcohol, System music (including instrumentals and Latin music), computer games, novels, Internet browsing (except for business purposes), and parties. (The COs in Brazil will also partake of this fast of worldly input.)
4. Refrain from going on ex-member Web sites, and avoid fellowship with those who talk against the Word, who tear down your faith and weaken you spiritually, whether they be former members, friends, or others.
5. Study any assigned reading lists that will come either from WS or from the COs that reside in Brazil.
6. Have personal prayer of deliverance with your Home members. (The Homes will be responsible to organize a time for all Home members to have this prayer of deliverance. This must happen before the national prayer and fast day.)
7. Make things right with those people you have bitterness and oughts against, and seek forgiveness from those you've hurt, gossiped about, or been a bad sample to, etc. Apologize as needed. This goes for parents to children, teens to parents, older brothers and sisters to younger siblings, adults to young people, young people to adults, FGAs to FGAs, young people to young people, etc.
8. Parents, explain the situation to your JETTs and children.
9. Participate in the national prayer and fast day.
10. Teach your sheep--your contacts, friends, relatives, Active members, or supporters--the Words of David in the form of publications produced by WS. Promote the Activated program. Refrain from teaching material from System Christian books.
11. Actively witness.
12. Comply with any mandatory forms of personal or Home reporting that might be generated by the COs in Brazil.
Those who were previously Charter members or Charter member Homes who wish to return to discipleship as Charter members will be required to:
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Obey the Love Charter and "Fundamental Family Rules," and strive to be a full-time disciple according to the "Conviction versus Compromise" series.
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Live the Word Revolution and fulfill the required minimum hours of Word as per the GN "What Is Jesus Worth to You?" (ML #3433)H
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Hold Home teamwork elections on June 15th, and a vote of confirmation on September 15th.
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Get right with the Lord regarding any unconfessed sin or Charter infractions.
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Refrain from having sex with outsiders and those who were Fellow members.
As you can see, dear Family, our brethren in Brazil need our fervent prayers during this time. Please pray that the Lord will be able to use this time of correction and chastisement to turn around the Brazil work and to bring it through this time of purging as finer gold. Our dear Family members in Brazil need a radical turn around and metanoia in their lives in order to reclaim their discipleship, and fulfill what the Lord is asking of them.
The Lord has given wonderful promises of deliverance and hope for each Family member in Brazil if they will do their part--confess, repent, and claim the keys of miraculous change, and then do the hard work of fighting and breaking old habits and allowing the Lord to rewire and remake them. "Nothing is impossible with the power of the keys!"
Peter and I are counting on all of you, dear Family, to uphold your brethren in Brazil in your prayers, and also to get desperate yourselves and seek the Lord about your own personal standard of discipleship and commitment to the Lord and the Family.
With love and desperate prayer,
Mama
(reply to this comment)
| From Christy
Sunday, June 15, 2003, 21:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks for posting this "letter" in full form. As a good former member I believe I've been able to put this information to good use. A Brazilian friend of mine who is still in the group has been visiting in-laws on this side of the globe and therefore had not heard details about the state of her homeland. I cut and pasted the "Mama" letter and sent it to her via email in hopes that she would change her plans and not return to Brazil (which would in effect mean leaving TF). Although she does have to return for family and medical purposes, she by no means seems inclined to sit through the sentence. We'll see what happens but her reaction to the news is hopefully indicative of how other young people over there taking it. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Estie
Wednesday, June 04, 2003, 16:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
It isn´t so shocking really......it was just a matter of time, the folks in Brazil have been having a great time for a while now & they have been doing there job well too, most of the youth has been happy. So I´m not shocked at all that at this time they come up with crap like this.
I`ve been planning a trip to Brazil for a while now & I´ll be going this year, in a couple months.....and I hope to see first hand the flocks of kids leaving the family, maybe help out a little bit so the can feel more at ease about leaving. It is actually a good thing that´s happening, it´ll help the kids that haven´t been "sure" if they want to leave or not, to make the decision finally.
.......And I just wanted to comment that Brazil was the country that was doing the best in their "Activated" ministries, they were getting donations left & right & if there were homes with money ( because they did work for it) it was those homes..... (reply to this comment) |
| | From frmrjoyish
Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 23:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
Holy s**t! Did I just read what I thought I read???? I'm honestly reeling from that! Did "mama" say that the more money people send in, the higher the status they can return to, maybe, in six months??? Yet at the same time while sending in what would have to be at least in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for a whole country, they get nothing for it?? She's got quite a racket going on for herself. Sounds like a bad episode of the Soprano's!! Somebody's gettin' jacked! Surely to God they won't be so stupid as to go back!! And does anybody know what a HER fund is??(reply to this comment) |
| | From roughneck
Wednesday, June 04, 2003, 01:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
Another dumb "Family" acronym: HER=Home Emergency Reserve
I believe the minimum HER used to be 1K US per home. Also if memory serves correctly, the "HER" was comprised of everyone's "Flee Funds" (I know a lot of people were selling CreditSuisse 1 gram 99.99% gold bars (often illegally!) back when WS first announced it's creation. Can anyone say "Enron"?) I personally agree with the speculation that requiring everyone to turn in the HER is a move to make sure that people aren't "backsliding" on "WS's" money. As if those monkey-smackers at WS actually *earned* any of it. Any asshole can afford to spend their days dreaming up and writing crap, so long as they have a captive audience required to read their work and send a minimum of $50 a month for the "privilege".
It would seem that the Family is suffering from the worldwide economic downturn, and are resorting to firing the help, just like every other poorly run business. Only difference is that instead of getting paid, as a member-slash-employee, you pay the management for the privilege of having your "benefits" (ha!) revoked in addition to getting fired. Fun Stuff...NOT! Fuck 'em.. I hope it's "Sackcloth" Zerby's ruin. Idiots.
Aside: I'm glad I don't have to tack ANOTHER 14% "tithe" on top of the fecking taxes and levies that already come off of my paycheque. Suckers!
(reply to this comment) |
| | From frmrjoyish
Wednesday, June 04, 2003, 16:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
So, all the homes have to turn in their money that's supposed to be set aside for an emergency?? What a load of crap! That's extortion! Even if they got the money in the first place by lying, using their kids, and begging from poor people, it's still 100% more work than Zerby and Peter's fat asses put into it! No wonder they live their life in hiding, that way noone can take all the millions of dollars their probably sittin' those fat asses on!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From boggled
Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 18:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
Now I'm really stunned and glad I am no longer subject to this stuff. It sounds like sensory deprivation! No "system" input, and at the same time no new "pubs" (which sounds just dandy IF I can read other stuff, but no, only the Family pubs I have already been tormented with to rot out my poor brain from lack of necessary stimulation). I can't believe they will still go on at every opportunity about how independent members are and any mistakes they make was not because of the Family but because the individual member was exercising their boundless self-determination. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from boggled
Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 15:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Now that is somethig! Excommunicated but still have a load of rules dumped on you?? They still haven't caught on that there are limits to most humans' masochism??
(reply to this comment)
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