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from Pinky Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 21:06 (Agree/Disagree?) If you were the "first" "infamous" one, howcome you don't remember the dates? Matsumoto Victors officially started on September 15th, 1989, four days before my 14th birthday. I was in the first 6 week program so I must know you. Then the Dorm Teen Victors started mid November '89. Auty and I, along with another teen and Ricky and Elaine went there from Matsumoto to fix up the Dorm and be "charter memebers" as they say. I was in Victors for a total of 10 months. I was on other programs and Attack Teams for a total of 2 years besides that. I was in the dog house for "attitude" for all of my teen life. If your misery tops that, you deserve the credit you are so desperately seeking. (reply to this comment)

From Foxyfox Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 22:52 (Agree/Disagree?) If it really started Sep 89' I was around 11 so that would justify me not remembering the date. But even before the V.P. actually started in Matsumoto they had I.C. ( Intensive Care, heard of that one??) at the HCS. I wasn't aware till now that Faithy was the one who thought it up, did she?? Another thing I was wondering is if you know when it ended?? It moved to Kamakura ( Yokohama) after a while and sort of finished there I think. I'm not necessarily seeking credit for anything, but my victor years tops yours by far. Who are you anyways?? You're probably alot older then I am if you went to start the Teen V.P. at the dorm. By the way Sunny, I tried to send you e-mail but I guess it didn't go thru. How are you? I'll try to write again somtime.(reply to this comment)

From EyesWideShut Wednesday, June 04, 2003, 17:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Hmm, strange. Not sure why it wouldn't go through. sunny__james@hotmail.commailto:sunny__james@hotmail.com">sunny__james@hotmail.com> Try again, pls. (reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 21:03 (Agree/Disagree?) The very first program was the one under Newheart, with James Paul, Mike, Paul and Auty being sent, including one adult I believe, but it wasn't the Victor program at that time, just the forerunner. That was in '89 or '90. The second one (I don't remember if it was Matsumoto) was run by Martin O. I believe, and its members included John Little and Victor and Love's son (Tim was it?). That was around '90 or '91. It originated at the HCS, I believe it was Faithy's idea, and John L. had been caught stealing, besides being too smart for his teachers and a mouth to go with it, and a few other things. But really, John's sins were very mild in comparison to today's youth. John was shaved bald and had his mouth taped shut as punishment, among other things. (reply to this comment)

From EyesWideShut Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 21:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Sorry, PD. You're waaaay off in some of your conjecture. Martin O never came into the picture until waaaay later and he was a breath of fresh air for some of us. You're right about that forerunner program. I'm not aware that it had a name and if it did, I'm lucky I don't know it because that means I skipped out on some of the nastiest abuse in the annals of "program" history. So in reality, the FIRST Victor Program was the one that Pinky talks about above. (reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Thursday, June 05, 2003, 01:39 (Agree/Disagree?) So then who was the VP shepherd when JohnL and Tim were there? It has been quite a few years and I don't remember many details. And then wouldn't the Victors have ended when the Attack Teams started up at the HCS in the mid-90s, of whom Watchman was a famous member?(reply to this comment)