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Getting Out : Media Reports
FBI Investigates Coast Sex Cult - Australian Newspaper Article, November 19, 2005 | from Eva St John - Friday, November 18, 2005
accessed 6831 times Following is a big double-page newspaper report consisting of 3 related articles about TF which came out today here in Oz. The Courier Mail, Australia - November 19-20, 2005
Main Article:
FBI Investigates Coast Sex Cult
A cult that preached pedophilia, incest and rape flourishes on the Gold Coast despite international efforts to shut it down, writes Tuck Thompson.
The FBI is investigating an international cult with strong links to the Gold Coast after a barrage of affidavits from second-generation members who say their lives were ruined by sexual abuse and mind control.
The Family, formerly known as the Children of God, claims it has changed, no longer promotes sex between children and adults and has apologized to past victims, but former members warn it is still recruiting in Queensland.
Eva St John, a Gold Coast resident who quit the cult in 1989 but monitors its activities, estimates it has hundreds of members on the Gold Coast despite its own claims of just a few dozen. {Note from Eva: I never actually said this. I have no idea how many members there are in this area and never gave the reporter a figure}.
‘They’re still recruiting and they’re still going strong,” Ms St John said.
Ms St John has compiled an assortment of literature that showed children involved sexually with adults.
“I usually like to sleep totally nude and free and ready for love…when all of a sudden this beautiful, dark-haired girl of about 10 or 11 came and crawled into bed with me!” a passage in one book read.
Heaven’s Girl , a book given to home-schooled children, shows a pre-teen girl consenting to rape by several men, exclaiming it was an act of God’s love.
Redlands resident Natalie Markoff, who was born into the cult, said she was forced into sex at the age of 10 when she was living in a cult house in Poland.
“It was expected that if anyone touched you, you just went with it,” she said. “If you didn’t want to do it, they’d punish you.”
Young women were taught to dress seductively and engage in ‘Flirty Fishing” — getting money and favors for sex.
Ms St John said she has received death threats by telephone for speaking out against the cult, which has several hundred members in Australia.
The Courier-Mail attempted to speak to two alleged members of the cult at Nerang and Burleigh Waters on Thursday. One hurled profanities at a journalist and the other ran into a supervisor’s office.
Taskforce Argos, a pedophilia unit of the Queensland Police, is aware The Family’s activities, but will not comment on any investigations.
Family International spokes-woman Claire Borowik said the ‘Christian fellowship” adopted a policy for protecting minors in 1986.
“We regret that prior to the adoption of this policy, cases occurred where minors were exposed to sexually inappropriate behavior,” Borowik said.
She said sexual contact between adults and children was banned, and questionable literature had been “officially renounced and expunged”.
But the Australian Cult Awareness and Information Centre continues to brand The Family as perverted. “The danger this network sees in The Family is not what they now believe but how in the past they believed the things they did believe,” it said.
The Watchman Fellowship, an international group that monitors cults, said The Family had intensified its efforts in Australia and “has begun a massive PR campaign to create a new public image”.
Meanwhile, hundreds of former cult members are urging cult leaders to help authorities track down former child molesters within their ranks.
“Now is the opportunity to come clean and take responsibility for their actions and the harm they caused,” reads an open letter sent to Family administrators.
Richard Hutch, a professor of religion at the University of Queensland, said The Family was a “new religious movement” that has pushed social norms. “It represents an experiment by human beings to reframe their everyday lives,” he said, adding that The Family was “about as good as any other” religious organization.
While there were “perhaps pockets of abuse”, he said it was a matter for the police and courts and The Family shouldn’t be made into scapegoats.
Glenn McLaren, a former soldier, learned of the cult in 2002 when he was working at a Gold Coast club where some of the strippers were cult members. He developed a relationship with Ms Markoff, who left the cult 5 years ago, and became active in helping her expose its activities.
“It was quite strange. I couldn’t believe a girl like her could be mixed up in something like this,” he said.
In August, his car was damaged with a brick in the middle night and his house was hit with rocks and eggs.
Mr McLaren said cult members were clever and well-organized, avoiding prosecution by keeping their literature exchange and activities more secretive than they did in the past.
“They’ve gone underground with the way they do things,” he said.
The cult recruits at liberal ‘new wave’ churches, according Ms St John.
“They change your name, they isolate you from your family and friends. They won’t let you think. They take over your life and mind so every single thing in your life is controlled.”
Ms Borowik said that since 1993, The Family had issued “seven official apologies” to people with grievances, but other claims were unsupported.
[Second Article]
Family Website Accepting ‘Charity’ Donations
A WEBSITE affiliated with The Family accepts credit card donations and direct bank withdrawals but makes no mention of its cult connection. Nor is the “Family Care Foundation” explicit about where it spends money on aid projects, including tsunami relief.
“It’s very clever,” said Paul O’Caflaghan, executive director of the Australian Council for International Development (ACFID), Australia’s peak charity body. “It’s about the most general Style of annual report I’ve seen in my life.”
The website accepts contributions from foreign countries, but records don’t show the foundation as an active registered charity in Australia.
The Family’s Australia spokesman Paul Hartingdon said the foundation did not fundraise in Australia, nor did it have affiliated projects here.
“Certainly there are no Family members who are raising funds for or on behalf of FCF in Australia,” he said.
The ACFID says the Family Care Foundation is not one of its member charities, which must abide by a strict code of conduct.
Foundation executive director Larry Corley has denied ties with The Family, but US newspaper the San Francisco Chronicle reported earlier this year that all six FCF officers had links to it.
[Third Article]
Rebirth Of A Controversial Sect
THE Family has its roots in the Children of God, a religious cult started in the late 1960s by roaming Californian preacher David “Moses” Berg, who drew followers disillusioned with the status quo.
Initially the group had no sexual agenda, but by the late ‘7Os, Berg began encouraging his growing membership to engage in open sexuality with a variety of partners and ages.
Public outcry, allegations of child abuse and sexual disease limited the practice, and the cult began to reform its policies prior to Berg’s death in 1994, although former members say sexual and physical abuse continued.
Earlier this year, 29-year-old Ricky Rodriquez, Berg’s son, committed suicide after stabbing to death his former nanny Angela Smith, a director of The Family’s fundraising arm. Prior to the murder, Rodriquez recorded a video expressing his anger at the sexual abuse of his sisters.
The video also described his father as a pedophile, and his mother as violent towards children.
Cult critics, including former members, point to the murder-suicide as a tragic progression for those raised in a bizarre, ritualistic community where children were exploited.
Rodriquez was touted growing up as an example of the cult’s success — to the extent that his life was chronicled in The Davidito Book .
Claire Borowik, a US spokeswoman for The Family, has ridiculed suggestions that the cult has an above-average suicide rate and said the “untimely deaths brought much grief and heartache”.
Berg’s wife, Karen Zerby (“Mama Maria”), now administers the cult from a secret location.
“Maria has made this life style choice at this time for her reasons — and she has found it works well to help her concentrate on The Family administration, writing, etc,” said Paul Hartingdon, a spokesman for The Family in Australia.
Ms Borowik said Rodriquez had withdrawn from The Family in 2000.
Rodriquez’s wife, Elixcia Munumel, spoke to the media after his death and said her husband wanted justice. He had wanted to help his half-sister Techi escape from the cult, and had wanted to see his mother prosecuted for child abuse.
Mr Hartingdon said The Family tried to reach out to former members, and did not harass or threaten them. “We pray for them,” he said.
The cult says it has a membership of about 4000 adults and 4000 children. They live in more than 700 communal homes in 100 countries.
The Family says there are about 500 members in Australia, mostly in NSW and Victoria, but former members say the number is closer to 1000, with a growing number on the Gold Coast.
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from ESJ
Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 19:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm away having a wonderful holiday and am not going to waste more than 2 minutes of it on this poor, disturbed jerk (below), who clearly has nothing better to do over Christmas and the New Year than compose bogus, vitriolic 'press releases' attacking a concerned outspoken mother, supposedly disseminated to 100,000 media outlets??? Oh, pu-lease.
You don't even realize that you give yourself away as a pathologically delusional and patently dishonest individual in virtually every sentence you write. I kinda like the label 'avante guard high priestess of bloggers' though. Sounds very impressive, especially for someone like me who is barely internet literate and usually only spends a couple of hours total a week on the Web. Is there a badge or an award that goes with this title?
Anyhow, I'm off to the beach for some more boogey boarding. I'll leave it up to the Oz investigating authorities and the men in white coats to deal with this poor sod. Ta ta for now.
(reply to this comment)
|  From ESJ & family & friends
Tuesday, January 03, 2006, 21:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
For the sake of media researchers, government investigators and other new visitors to this site who do not yet know the background or the actual facts pertaining to the allegations made by the party/ies in the statement below, the following ‘assertions’ made by them can be readily found to be completely fictitious and imagined, and have no basis in reality whatsoever.
These statements are entirely false:
“…critics of this site denied access.” / “…critics of this site are censored in denial of…free speech…” / “When it comes to religious intolerance first prize must go to…"Moving On" and “Xfamily”.”
- (There is open tolerance of all religious and anti-religious views voiced here, provided they are not supporting child abuse, or deceptive, coercive and harmful practices, or maliciously spamming the site with ‘hate mail’ ad infinitum to satisfy a malevolent ulterior agenda, as this party has been doing. Even so, their ‘poison pen’ vitriol has not been removed entirely but merely voted onto the ‘unsubstantiated garbage’ section of the site as an example of the mental deterioration and moral degeneration of TFI’s members and affiliates).
[Moving On and xFamily sites] “…promot(e) a video planning a recent murder suicide in the US..”.
- (No ‘promoting’ of such is being done whatsoever. Like other media and video footage available on Moving On and xFamily, it is merely being used as an important example of the tragic results of The Family International’s past child-rearing [child abuse] practices).
“…two (Australian) State Governments launched simultaneous raids on cult homes in New South Wales and Victoria taking into custody over 190 children.”
– (It was not 190, but approximately 130 children that were taken into temporary care while the cult’s harmful child rearing practices were being investigated).
“However when the total resources of both State governments failed to prove one single case of abuse, the courts threw the case out as vexatiously motivated.”
- (The case was most certainly not ‘thrown out’. As in many Family Court cases, there was a court settlement made whereby TFI had to agree to have themselves and their children closely monitored by department social workers for at least the next year or two, and they had to abide by some strict rules and guidelines laid down by the court. There was absolutely no so-called ‘exoneration’ or ‘failure to prove’ or ‘charges dropped’, as TFI claims in their PR literature and media releases about the cases.
If TFI was innocent, as they claim, then why did they agree to the dire imposition of being monitored and supervised and having to implement the court orders of the government welfare authorities, instead of allowing the court process to speedily ‘prove their innocence’? TFI’s willingness to stop the case from going ahead by making a contractual agreement with the welfare authorities to come under their ongoing scrutiny in reality proved their guilt.
Another important point is that the Australian welfare authorities did not get the chance to give any of the children a medical examination for signs of abuse before TFI’s criminal attorneys managed to pull legal strings to have the children returned to the cult. The authorities had over 70 witnesses who were submitting sworn affidavits and were willing to come forward and testify against TFI, but again, through the devious antics of TFI’s criminal lawyers, the legal process was underhandedly prolonged and drawn out in order to keep any of the witnesses from taking the stand. This was due to the fact that TFI and its legal team knew that the moment the witnesses took the stand and began ‘telling all’, it would spell certain death to their defense. Thus, due to the probability of the case dragging out for several years and costing millions of dollars, the decision was made to settle the case out of court - which is what happens in the majority of Family Court cases.
Since the time of the Australian raids and court cases, quite a number of the children that were involved in the raids have since left TFI cult as young adults, and have testified that they were, in fact, molested and abused as children, but had been intensively indoctrinated and programmed to deny everything to outsiders, especially to child welfare authorities – who in the cult’s children’s books, are depicted as malevolent wolves in sheep’s clothing not to be trusted).
“The story (re: Eva’s daughter contracting VD at 18 months old) was later debunked by friends of Ms. St John who said she “had VD at the time and transmitted it to her daughter at birth”…”
– (No friends of Eva St John have ever ‘debunked’ her account of this incident, she definately did not have VD at the time of giving birth to her daughter, nor did her daughter have the disease until approximately a week before it was diagnosed. These fictitious claims come solely from TFI cult members and their affiliates themselves under the pretense of being ‘long time friends’ of Eva’s, when they in fact perceive Eva as an ‘arch villain’ for being a whistle-blower to TFI’s criminal practices, and have perceived her as such for the past 15 years since her defection).
“…(her) story was concocted to green mail the group in Australia.” / “…she is seeking to “green mail” the cult in exchange for her silence!” / “Ms St John was livid at not receiving compensation and claimed she would “sue the cult”.
- (Whilst the meaning of the term ‘green mailing’ remains dubious, it appears to be insinuating that Eva’s motive or agenda is to somehow ‘blackmail’ TFI for personal gain. They seem to be implying that she is ‘concocting’ these stories in order to get TFI to ‘pay her off’ for her future silence. As she has been publicly speaking up about TFI’s abuse of its children for the past 15 years, and has never once approached the cult for any form of personal compensation, this is clearly – again – a completely imagined and groundless allegation).
“She is reported to be in hiding from the Australian ABC TV programme "Media Watch" is seeking to interview Ms. St John to answer allegations that she lied to 60 Minutes.”
- (Eva is not ‘in hiding’ from anyone, especially the media who have interviewed her repeatedly, and all her interviews have been corroborated by other first-hand witnesses and copious material evidence. ‘Media Watch’ has been contacted, and according to them the claims alluding to them in the statement above are completely fictitious).
“Ms. St John (is) seeking to launch civil action after being sidelined, missing out in an out of court settlement that saw cult members awarded compensation.”
- (At no time has Eva ever shown any personal interest in, or sought to be involved in, any financial settlement or compensation claim for or against TFI. She does, however, heartily support the idea of the cult’s second generation ex members engaging in a class action against the group).
“…Ms. St John who lived off welfare for decades is seeking a nest egg retirement fund…. Now that the welfare laws are tightening and she is faced with the prospect of getting a fulltime secular job she is seeking to “green mail” the cult in exchange for her silence!”
- (Since leaving TFI Eva has worked consecutively at several full time ‘secular’ jobs, and expended great effort to financially support and care for her family for many years until they were grown and independent. All disparaging insinuations in regards to ‘welfare’ are simply groundless slander and an attempt to cast doubt on Eva’s motives for telling the truth about the cult’s harmful and criminal practices).
“By her own account she frequently worked as a prostitute and made porn videos, blaming the cult for her actions.”
- (They are referring to the fact that on a few occasions Eva – like most female members - was coerced into doing some form of ‘FFing’ and ‘escort work’ while a full time member of TFI in the early 1980’s, which at the time was a ‘doctrinally-taught’ and accepted practice of the cult as a means of bringing in money for the group’s ‘pimp-like’ leaders.
At no time has Eva ever made, or appeared in, any form of ‘porn video’, nor has she – as far as she and her children know – ever even been filmed in any stage of undress, in or out of TF. No such ‘porn videos’ or ‘sex videos’ or ‘striptease videos’ of Eva exist, they are a complete fabrication and product of a malicious and perverted cult imagination. And, contrary to their claim, nor has Eva ever given any ‘account’ of said non-existant video footage or alleged ‘prostitution’ [outside the cult]. She is not, and has never been, a promiscuous individual since her defection from TFI.)
As the writer/s below have made repeated slanderous personal attacks on Eva in an attempt at character assassination to try to discredit her for exposing their crimes, and have bombarded her email inbox with ‘hate mail’ and made personal threats towards her, they have been legally classed as ‘stalkers’ and are being investigated as such by the authorities.
May justice be done. Sincerely, ESJ and family and friends.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Friendly
Tuesday, January 03, 2006, 23:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Those who actually do know you Eva know what you have been fighting for.For any that dont know it is and has always been-
Rights for the Second generation members born into this sick tripe.Dont worry about what is said about you personally because i have never once heard you mention money and im sure all that have been affected by this misuse of power over children, dont want TFI's dirty money anyway.Justice is what is being sought and if it was to be through violence like GV has said im sure there would have been a few more murder/suicides. GV is blind why else would he use such a family label even his press release type accusation is so TF.(reply to this comment) |
| | from Greater Victories
Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 02:28
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Eva's sex lies and videos...critics of this hate site denied access
A media release about this hate blog site promoting a disturbing murder suicide being planned has been posted to 100,000 media outlets around the globe. It highlights how critics of this site are censored in denial of the truth and free speech while hate filled religious bloggers run amuck with vexatious allegations of sexual abuse in order to green mail cults, soft targets, in return for silence!
A simple web search revealed several western religious hatred blog sites that have popped up one featuring and promoting a video planning a recent murder suicide in the US.
When it comes to religious intolerance first prize must go to the religious hate blog sites like "Moving On" and “Xfamily”. They boast numerous sites in countries around the world that the authorities to date seem powerless to stop.
Hiding behind a special brand of intolerance it has the facade of exposing abuse in religion while promoting the shrill rhetoric of intolerance slamming just about everyone from the Catholic Church to Scientology and Hare Krishna.
It appears the site hides behind the noble cause of assisting those wishing to make a seamless transition away from religious institutions while on the other hand it promotes videos of murder, sexual abuse and much more. One such video made prior to a murder suicide in July in the USA includes graphic detail of the event being planned.
In Australia and New Zealand another outstanding example of hatred gone mad is avant guard high priestess of bloggers is a Australia, Ms. Eva St John who appeared on 60 Minutes recently with a story titled “Sinful acts”, alleges her 18-month old daughter was sexually molested by Children of God cult members and contracted gonorrheae.
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/60_Minutes_Australia_Sinful_Acts
The story was later debunked by friends of Ms. St John who said she “had VD at the time and transmitted it to her daughter at birth”, something she denies as medically impossible yet is widely advertised fact on medical sites all over the web, and that the story was concocted to green mail the group in Australia.”
She is reported to be in hiding from the Australian ABC TV programme "Media Watch" is seeking to interview Ms. St John to answer allegations that she lied to 60 Minutes.
Ms. St John “left school at 16” is a malevolent disaffected former cult member seeking to launch civil action after being sidelined, missing out in an out of court settlement that saw cult members awarded compensation. In one of the largest raids in Australian history two State Governments launched simultaneous raids on cult homes in New South Wales and Victoria taking into custody over 190 children. However when the total resources of both State governments failed to prove one single case of abuse, the courts threw the case out as vexatiously motivated. Ms. St John was livid at not receiving compensation and claimed she would “sue the cult”. More to the point Ms. St John who lived off welfare for decades is seeking a nest egg retirement fund. By her own account she frequently worked as a prostitute and made porn videos, blaming the cult for her actions. Now that the welfare laws are tightening and she is faced with the prospect of getting a fulltime secular job she is seeking to “green mail” the cult in exchange for her silence! She alleges “FBI investigations” in an effort to secure public opinion for her cause.
This is just one sad case that is evidence of the moral decay and misuse of the Internet.
What is worse, the Moving ON site recently censored critics and removed articles exposing the allegations of Eva St John and denied access to anyone who would take a stand against religious hatred and promotion of murder suicide videos. So much for a brave new world of freedom of speech and worship on the Internet! Governments around the world have passed laws against sedition but what are they doing to follow up on this new brand of intolerance?
Something should be done about it?
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from ESJ
Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 08:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
I've been too busy to get on the computer these past few days, and am too pooped and ready for sleep to write a reply right now to this sick, imbicilic drival (Antipathy’s diatribe below), so it'll have to wait till tomorrow. However, I can assure y'all that it is grossly fictitious and it’s hard to find even one factual element in it.
Its patently clear that this nutter barely knows me (if at all) and knows almost nothing about me or my children or my time in TF. He/she is quoting almost verbatim exactly the same bogus stories that TF spokespersons and SG’s have been giving the media after my interviews with them. Obviously TF’s ‘Ministry of Untruth’ has come out with one blanket ‘circular story’ for them all to believe and disseminate about me, and they don’t realize that they’re all using exactly the same lines and language, and pretending to be ‘a close friend of mine who knows’. Oh pu-lease, gimme a break! Anyhow, will write a reply when I get time.
Cheers, Eva
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From ESJ
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 21:08
 (Agree/Disagree?)
In reply to the Family nutter below:
“…close(d) minded twisted individuals who have totally lost the plot.”
- It is not possible to do this line justice. To suggest you are projecting your own sorry state onto those who are trying to wake you up out of it, would be a colossal understatement.
“…in the interest of truth and fairness …”
- If you were really interested in truth and fairness, you wouldn’t be seen dead affiliating with a movement and its leaders who teach their following how to practice fraud, duplicity, mindless conformity, and how to lie to, dupe, mislead, manipulate, control and exploit others (all with a ‘sweet, loving smile’) – on top of denying all the crimes they’ve committed in the treatment of their own children.
“…to say a few words about my personal experience with Eva and her kids…” – “I have known Eva for many years.” – “I…have been on friendly terms with her since we first met...” - “I was actually close to Eva and her husband.…and her two daughters…” “You see I saw first hand.”
- Uh huh…So if you’ve ‘known me personally for many years’ as you say, and ‘saw first hand’ how is it that you are not even aware that,
a) I was a full time member of TF the entire time my children were young;
b) all the abuses they experienced - including my 18 month old daughter contracting VD - happened while we were fulltime members of TF, associating with and surrounded by other fulltime members. (At the time of the VD incident we were traveling between homes and fundraising to go to the mission field);
c) I did not have a husband for you to be ‘close to’ (although I did have a partner at the time of the VD experience in 1979);
d) I do not have ‘two daughters’ (whom you supposedly ‘know’), I actually have four children, and it was one of my sons and one of my daughters who experienced extensive physical, emotional and sexual abuse - while we were full time members of TF;
e) If you really ‘were there’ and you did ‘see it first hand’, then you must be one of a number of people whom I have reported to the authorities as possibly having had something to do with the sexual abuse of my child; and
f) I most certainly have not been ‘on friendly terms with you’, whoever you are, because I don’t personally associate with anyone who has a close affinity with or for TF and have not done so in more than 15 years!
“Eva is very mixed up.” - “She is…a driven personality…” - “…a dandy bad example…” - “…is twisting things to make em sound sinister for her own agenda.” - “She had few scruples.” - “Eva is in denial.” - “..a very sick mind.” - “..incurable …” - “I really like her…”
“She is one of the most intelligent, persuasive and hard working people I have ever met. I really like her and have been on friendly terms with her since we first met…”
- Come on, make up your mind! You’re exhibiting all the signs of schizoid personality disorder here - guilt projection, paranoid delusional character assassination, and dissociative double-speak. What all these big words mean, ‘friend’, is that you’re pretty much certifiable. Sorry. – (Then again, the entire Family hierarchy is certifiable, so it figures).
“In any event why go to 60 Minutes if you have a serious complaint about sexual abuse?”
- We did not go to 60 Minutes, they came to us. It was not my idea or any of the ex SG’s who were interviewed. 60 Minutes just asked us for interviews and we freely talked to them. Why? Because media coverage happens to get the authorities’ attention to where they can no longer ignore the situation and are forced to investigate the claims further. When you’re telling the truth and have all the evidence to back it up, this is welcomed as a good thing. We have nothing to hide, no reason to lie, and nothing to fear, unlike yourself and the rest of TF droids.
“Why not go to the Police who are prosecuting people right and left for abuse that happened 20, 30 and 40 years ago. Why ?”
- We have, and they are investigating, and you are probably on their list of suspects.
“I would imagine that her daughter would make a very creditable witness.”
- Yes, she is a very credible witness (unlike yourself), and she is rightfully believed.
“If it were me I would be beating a bee line to the Police for the cops to arrest someone.”
- That’s exactly what quite a few ex SG’s have done. They have reported their abuse to the appropriate authorities (just as you say you would have done). So why is it then that you (TF) deny, disbelieve and condemn these same intelligent young people as ‘sick-minded enemies’ for doing this very intelligent thing that you say you yourself would do if it happened to you?
“Don't forget Eva was around during the Police raids in 1992 and had every opportunity to bag the Family there and then. Why didn't Eva put her hand up then and say something about the abuse when the authorities would have been grateful to hear? Why?”
- My God, where have you been for the past 15 years? If you actually knew me personally – or anything about me at all - you would know that that’s exactly what I did – (and the authorities were grateful). Between 1992 and 1994 – the time of the Australian legal proceedings against TF over their child rearing practices – I was interviewed on TV 9 times, on national radio numerous times, and appeared in over a dozen newspaper and magazine articles trying to tell the world and the authorities about the plight of the SG’s of TF. (And I’ve appeared on TV and in the print media some half a dozen times from ’95 till now). I also ran a small organization and refuge home to help young people out of cults and abusive childhoods get a footing in the real world. And I did it all for free and didn’t get paid a cent for any of it. So where were you all that time, ‘friend’? How come you didn’t even know about my most public activities over the past 15 years? You must have your head so far up Berg and Zerby’s back passage you have no idea what’s been going on in the real world these past few decades.
“…(Eva’s) drive is usually to do with money. It is money that I believe has motivated this present tirade.”
– Sorry to disappoint you, but virtually all my media interviews were done for free, and I paid for my ‘exposing TF’ activities out of my own pocket. I fundraised to help pay the costs of running a refuge home and struggled endlessly to make ends meet. I have never made a profit financially from my work exposing TF. To the contrary, it has cost me dearly financially and in many other ways. Believe me, there is no financial ‘reward’ for doing this – at least not here in Oz. Why would anyone subject themselves to public embarrassment over their past and public attack from TF (ie: the likes of you) like I and a growing number of ex SG’s have done, unless we felt it was important to tell the truth. The only reward is knowing you’re doing the right thing and hopefully helping the victims. To this day (as usual), I have almost no money in the bank and I’m relatively okay with that. It’s just not a big issue with me.
“…Eva (saying) in my presence, "I want to sue the Family" is in my inexpert opinion a symptom of a very sick mind.” - “Eva is disgusted at the Family receiving compensation money for wrongful action by the Government. She says' "where is the money". This reveals her true motivation, "money". The fact she did not get any.”
- First you say that for someone to want to sue for financial compensation is the product of a ‘very sick mind’, then you go on to tell us that TF, in fact, sued the government for financial compensation when their lawyers found a tiny loophole in the legality of the raids. So that must mean in your reality that TF themselves must have ‘very sick minds’ and are ‘only doing it for the money’.
- The only time ‘suing’ was ever brought up between me and TF was when a Family under leader (while attending a cult awareness conference I was speaking at) said that TF could sue me for what I was saying about them. I exuberantly replied, “Yes! Please, go ahead and sue me! I would love any excuse to get you guys in a court of law so I can publicly produce all the witnesses and all the evidence against you.” So in fact it was TF talking of suing me, not the other way around. (So they must have ‘very sick minds’ according to your own estimation). There has been talk of a class action against TF by ex SG’s, an idea I heartily support, but at no time have I specifically said to anyone that I personally wanted to sue TF for my own personal compensation or gain. My entire thrust and motivation has been the welfare of the SG’s and bringing TF to justice. I’ve never seen there being any money in it for me.
“Eva is disgusted at the Family receiving compensation money for wrongful action by the Government. She says' "where is the money".
You better believe I’m disgusted. How dare TF receive compensation for being justifiably investigated for abusing their second generation, while at the same time refusing to pay out any compensation to the thousands of young people they’ve abused! That is twisted! And you better believe I wanna know where the money is. I have no interest or illusions about getting any of it for myself, but I sure know of a lot of ex SG’s who could really use it to get the counseling and support and education they need to rebuild new lives outside TF. As I demanded publicly at TF’s bogus ‘Children’s Rights in Religious Movements’ conference (re: the newspaper article you refer to), where is the compensation for all these young people?
“Eva was not in a colony, was sleeping around with anything that had money to get money.”
- You keep trying to insinuate that I was not in TF when all these things happened to my children, and that - according to you - I was some kind of ‘low life slut’ sleeping around for money when my children were abused, and that it ‘had nothing to do with TF’. The only sleeping around for money I ever did was as a Family member at the behest of and in ‘obedience’ to the teachings of Berg and TF leaders. And I only FF’ed and ES’ed sporadically while in TF due to the fact that I was out in the wilds of third world mission fields a lot of the time. Once I left TF in the latter half of the 80’s, I seldom had any sex life to speak of, let alone doing it for money. I was too busy surviving on my own with a baby and children and just trying to run my life and a small family with no support system.
The Family acting proactively had tried to reign in Eva but she wouldn't have any of it and was eventually shown the door.
- Yes, TF did try to ‘reign me in’ utilizing their usual bizarre and sordid techniques. I was beginning to question the insanity of treating our children the way Berg and Zerby and co were insisting we treat them, and so TF leadership put me on a ‘victor’s retraining program’ for two solid years! I was ostracized, demonized, isolated, forbidden from speaking with other members, raped by leaders, held down by up to six men at once while 8 months pregnant (for no logical reason, I was perfectly calm) and had exorcisms done over me to drive out the spirit of questioning, made to write reams of ‘confessions’, and had my children abused emotionally, physically and sexually while I was in this confused and disempowered state.
By this time TF had screwed with my mind for so long, I was an emotional and psychological wreck, vulnerable, afraid, extremely overworked, over-stressed, overwhelmed and deeply depressed – and yet unable to just ‘walk out’ because of 14 years of brainwashing that to leave meant incurring God’s wrath and fatally endangering my children’s lives. But the more I tried to protect my children from the leaders while in TF, the more they would be singled out for abuse just to punish me for objecting. And this entire time I was under the direct supervision of, and suffering all these things at the hands of, TF’s Australian leaders.
Finally, I made a big fuss and wrote a letter of protest to the area shepherds when my Home shepherd bashed my son and left him concussed and with a swollen face and head. The Shepherd was allowed to remain in TF as a full time member, and I was excommunicated for the ‘crime’ of being an ‘incorrigible independent thinker’. Apparently it was a crime for me to try to protect my children from abuse – an excommunicable offense in fact. While the abusers got off scott free and were rewarded for their loyalty.
If these reprehensible acts are seen by you and TF leadership as being ‘proactive’, it is little wonder you have come into strife with thousands of SG’s who’ve experienced just such ‘proactive’ treatment to ‘reign them in’ throughout their childhoods.
”After the RNR…lots of people went nuts…”
Hmmm. Why is that, do you think? Who was the author of the RNR? Your beloved ‘great endtime profit’ Berg! And what incited these people to go nuts? Years of manipulation, control, repression, and copious repetitive indoctrination regarding ‘sexual sharing’, ‘money for sex’ and child sexualization and exploitation, followed by a contrived period of more ‘individual freedom’ for people to do what they ‘felt led to do’ in obedience to all of this indoctrination.
“..there were a lot of hangers on who actually did a lot harm that the Family is still paying for, which is evidenced today but comments made by those same hangers on.” – “Another thing that does not sit right with me is that Eva was not in the Family at that time. She was a live out and roaming all over. So how can she blame the Family for her daughter having VD?”
As I have already stated, I was a full time Family member associating with and surrounded by other full time Family members when all this happened, and remained so for several years afterwards. My daughter was not exposed to or accessed by any adult outside TF.
I see that now TF is blaming everything on ‘a few hangers on’ that they eventually had to ‘weed out’, and poor Family, now they’re having to pay the price of what those bad ‘hangers on’ did. And anybody commenting truthfully about their past experiences in TF, you still label as being ‘hangers on’. You know full well that no Family ‘hangers on’ would be allowed to ‘hang on’ if they spoke up and said anything adverse about TF, so anyone speaking out is most definitely not a ‘hanger on’ – unlike you.
You also know full well that just because after the RNR members were allowed to travel around outside the larger Homes for a time to raise their airfares to go overseas, etc, does not mean they were ‘out of TF’ or were just ‘hangers on’. Most of those who worked more independently during that era were still reporting, tithing, full time Family members obeying leadership directives, just as I was at the time.
“They have nothing positive to say. Nothing about the useless live of vice crime drugs and sex that were changed forever for good. I know I was one. So were most of these but never a good word.”
No actually, I was not living a ‘useless life of vice, crime, drugs or sex’ when recruited in to TF at 16 years old. The useless life of vice, crime and sex came afterwards while in TF, instigated and taught by Berg and Zerby and co, and practiced by the leaders and the following.
“I was actually…around when (Eva’s daughter) was supposed to have contracted VD. I can honestly say there was NEVER any mention of any type of sexual abuse or any misconduct whatsoever. Never! No mention of anything like that…”
No, actually both my partner and I spoke with doctors and social workers at the children’s hospital extensively about it at the time, and it is on record. But at the time, of course, we were naïve Family dupes trained to protect TF at all costs - even to the detriment of our children’s welfare – so we never let on that we were involved with TF. We were still deep in denial and could only think in terms of a whitewashed explanation for everything and had been inculcated to hush anything up that may cause controversy for TF, - which is still happening in TF to this day, and which is graphically exhibited by your diatribe here.
“My personal opinion is that some of Eva's practices and lack of hygiene were to blame..” – “…it was not sexual abuse but possibly Eva's own poor hygiene...”
Another evidence that you don’t know me, because those who do used to even joke about what a meticulous clean freak I was as a mother when my children were young. As a Family dupe trying to protect TF at all costs at the time (instead of protecting my child and myself), I dutifully tried to find a way to take the blame for my daughter contracting VD and distract attention away from my involvement with TF and its sexual freedoms by suggesting perhaps I had just passed it on to her somehow when changing her nappies. However, if this was actually the way she did contract it, apparently it would be a ‘first’ in medical history. Medical science has already proven you can’t contract VD just from ‘poor hygiene’.
The sad truth is now a young person has been brain washed into believing a lie.
How can you possibly have the gall to accuse an independent 26 year old woman of being brainwashed as to how she contracted VD as a baby? (It’s a bit rich coming from you who are masters of brainwashing and whitewashing!) We don’t know who gave it to her, so all either of us has done is point to the obvious. – That as a mother I was living in a highly charged sexual environment that allowed (nay, even taught!) the molestation of little children, and here my baby daughter ends up with VD. Hmmm…go figure.
Having your kids watch you with strangers is not right. Putting this out there for people to use is sick. Others with sicker minds eagerly devour every word delighting in the whole affair. Yuck!
I couldn’t agree more. So why do you do it? Take for example the Davidito book and the Heavens Girl book for starters. Sick, huh? It is little wonder that poor Ricky couldn’t live with the fact that for years thousands of people around the world were gloating over photos of him being molested as a child, and learning how to do it to their kids. And now you have the gall to pretend none of it happened. Sick, sick, sick.
"God made boys and girls capable to have kids when they are 12" is, believe it or not, the truth. Whether you believe God, evolution or nothing it is a biological fact that kids of that age are able to have kids.”
No, actually, nature did not make kids that age able to have babies. They start seminating and menstruating around that time, but medical science and a great deal of historical medical evidence has proven that the bodies of young girls under the age of about 14-15 are actually not developed enough to cope with giving birth, as is born out in the backward countries who have thousands of underage mothers suffering permanently from the effects of giving birth too young.
“But to take something like that an skew it and use it to say that the Family actually promoted child sex is simply not true. I for one never saw it.”
If you were in TF any time during the 70’s and 80’s, you would have not only have seen the Davidito and Techi books, the Heaven’s Girl and Kids book, but had your own copies. You also would have seen and read most of the GN’s, the Mene letters, the Battle for Japan and Heavenlty City School books, the leadership memos, the Teen training book and all the magazines with copious photos of sexualized young children posing for the camera and having ‘sharing nights’, etc. etc. You yourself have even admitted you saw a lot of Family videos which were full of young girls stripteasing. So don’t you dare try to pretend you ‘didn’t see anything’, - moron!
“…apparently in 150 plus cases the Australia State authorities did not find any evidence either.”
They had plenty of evidence and had even seized a video of kids as young as 12 being married off in a mass ceremony. They had over 70 witnesses willing to take the stand and testify about the abuse of the kids, which included a large number of ex SG’s. They just never got to produce the evidence due to the shenanigans of TF’s lawyers. And the child welfare authorities did not even get the chance to physically examine any of the kids before they went back to their parents, TF’s lawyers made sure of that too. So we will never know the extent of what would have come out if the cases had gone ahead.
Eva was involved in making videos, I know, I was there for one production…Did you know Eva was doing that too. I still remember watching one of her videos and thinking, "her nipples are 2.5 cm to high" up her breasts.”
Funny, because (mercifully) I have NEVER appeared in or been involved in the making of any striptease videos, EVER. So this is a bald faced lie, buddy.
Oh, and my nipples are so not 2.5cm too high. (Teehee).
I haven’t got time to continue with this, gotta go, but I’ve said enough. All I can say is…”Get help”!
Cheersd Eva
(reply to this comment) |
| | from An antipathy
Friday, December 02, 2005 - 15:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
I just finished watching the Australian 60 Minutes program called "Sinful acts" off the web and would like to say the following, even though in doing so I know I will be roundly shouted down and criticised from a particular corner of close minded twisted individuals who have totally lost the plot. However I think it important in the interest of truth and fairness, to say a few words about my personal experience with Eva and her kids who appeared in the 60 Minutes program.
I have known Eva for many years. She is one of the most intelligent, persuasive and hard working people I have ever met. I really like her and have been on friendly terms with her since we first met although sadly that will probably change if this is broadcast. She is clearly a driven personality, but I would add that this drive is usually to do with money. It is money that I believe has motivated this present tirade. It is impossible to deny that the matter of Ricky is a truly tragic affair, but to use it as a springboard for your own reasons, good or bad is simply macabre. To possibly use it as a means to ratchet up money, or as Eva said in my presence, "I want to sue the Family" is in my inexpert opinion a symptom of a very sick mind.
The images and commentary of the 60 Minutes program will last in my memory for a long time, maybe longer then the memories that Eva and her two daughters have. The stories have been echoing uncomfortably around in my mind, and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Eva is very mixed up. She has mixed things up by mistake or on purpose. Either way the general public will probably never find out.
After the RNR when lots of people went nuts, there were a lot of hangers on who actually did a lot harm that the Family is still paying for, which is evidenced today but comments made by those same hangers on. They have nothing positive to say. Nothing about the useless live of vice crime drugs and sex that were changed forever for good. I know I was one. So were most of these but never a good word.
The Family acting proactively had tried to reign in Eva but she wouldn't have any of it and was eventually shown the door. I was actually close to Eva and her husband and was around when Melody was supposed to have had contracted VD. I can honestly say there was NEVER any mention of any type of sexual abuse or any misconduct whatsoever. Never! No mention of anything like that. Just think if it was true, the gossips would have spread the news of it all over. My personal opinion is that some of Eva's practices and lack of hygiene were to blame and not some perverted sicko as Eva would have the world believe. The sad truth is now a young person has been brain washed into believing a lie. What hypocrisy!
Now I know it is a sad thing that they actually believe it is true, but I was actually there, so I know. Howl at me if you wish. I don't care.
Another thing that does not sit right with me is that Eva was not in the Family at that time. She was a live out and roaming all over. So how can she blame the Family for her daughter having VD. The whole thing just does not add up. In any event why go to 60 Minutes if you have a serious complaint about sexual abuse? Why not go to the Police who are prosecuting people right and left for abuse that happened 20, 30 and 40 years ago. Why ? I would imagine that her daughter would make a very creditable witness.If it were me I would be beating a bee line to the Police for the cops to arrest someone.
You see I saw first hand. Eva was not in a colony, was sleeping around with anything that had money to get money. She had few scruples. To my mind it is far more likely that if Melody really had contracted VD it was not sexual abuse but possibly Eva's own poor hygiene. But that's just my opinion. Sad to say it is probably right but unacceptable to those who have other agendas and wish to get mileage out of someone's misfortune. My sense of it is Eva is in denial. Trying to fix the blame for her own failure to bring her kids up properly. For the dandy bad example she was to them and in front of them. Having your kids watch you with strangers is not right. Putting this out there for people to use is sick. Others with sicker minds eagerly devour every word delighting in the whole affair. Yuck!
My sense of it is Eva is twisting things to make em sound sinister for her own agenda. Like the audio tape I heard on the 60 Minutes program was saying how "God made boys and girls capable to have kids when they are 12" is, believe it or not, the truth. Whether you believe God, evolution or nothing it is a biological fact that kids of that age are able to have kids. But to take something like that an skew it and use it to say that the Family actually promoted child sex is simply not true. I for one never saw it. And apparently in 150 plus cases the Australia State authorities did not find any evidence either. Don't forget Eva was around during the Police raids in 1992 and had every opportunity to bag the Family there end then. Why didn't Eva put her hand up then and say something about the abuse when the authorities would have been grateful to hear? Why? And that brings me to another issue, Eva is disgusted at the Family receiving compensation money for wrongful action by the Government. She says' "where is the money". This reveals her true motivation, "money". The fact she did not get any. She even wrote a newspaper article saying so. Read her babble for yourself.
http://www.exfamily.org/art/exmem/childrens_rights_conference_sham.shtml
What you did not learn was that Eva was involved in making videos, I know, I was there for one production. In the 60 Minutes program you see some poor girl half pissed stumbling, bumbling around. Did you know Eva was doing that too. I still remember watching one of her videos and thinking, "her nipples are 2.5 cm to high" up her breasts. (Just thought I'd add that in case you thought I have made all this up).
But who the hell cares, sex sells and this type of sensationalism sells. Like the girl on the hook. Do you suppose anyone ever actually impaled themselves like that? Or was it a metaphor for how a girl can bat her eyes, wiggle her tail and get any man? Once again it is taken and twisted. A few words are taken here, a few there and bingo!
I am reminded of the quote, "to the pure all things are pure, but to the defiled all things are defiled even their own hearts and minds". Think about it people. And also have a think about where all this twisted stuff is coming from. The same hangers on that were hanging around the Family 20 or 30 years ago. The ones who like Eva the Family tried to and eventually did weed out as they either incurable or did not want to reform from their bad habits. But not before they caused untold damage to the good intentions of a few idealistic hard working individuals who were only looking for an answer to living in a system where greed and self take pride of place.
So there are my babblings. Ha! You might agree, or you may disagree. See if I care. You may even want to pay me out or worse which is why I choose to remain anonymous. In any event, I don't really care. I am nothing and have moved on. I would advise Eva and everyone else to do the same. I am no longer involved in the scheme of things and am living my own life free from vengeance and cess pool false politics. Eva should do the same instead of coming up with this type of vomit every couple of years or so. She and the hangers on should look around. Terrible things are happening. From what I have witnessed it wasn't here with Eva. People like Eva should look at what is happening in the world. Cyclones, earthquakes. People are really going through it. People are really getting hurt, some are actually dying. But all people like Eva can do is feel sorry for themselves. It sorta reminds me of that old quote, "misery loves comfort". Ha! Lets all get together and feel sorry for ourselves while people all around the world are hurt and dying. Or that other one, "tell a big lie as people will be more apt to believe it". Now that's what I call really sick.
An antipathy (not my real name........ hahahahahaha!)
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From MegaGroan
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 19:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
You wrote: "...lots of people went nuts, there were a lot of hangers on who actually did a lot harm that the Family is still paying for"
By "hangers on" do you mean Zerby and Peter? The Family was rotten at its core. Also, no one gives a shit if you were a drug addicted hippie BEFORE you joined a stupid cult.
You need to realize that the Family was not a positive force, either in your life or in ours. Your drug problem was just another idiotic decision you made in life.
I don't think you are anonymous because you think we might disagree, I think you might be worried that if we knew who you are we could call bullshit on you. I'm not saying you're an abuser, but if you were in the Family during the late '70's to early '80's then I'd bet you were in a home at some point where abuse occurred.
What home were you in when "Liberty or a Stumbling block" came out? How did you feel when The Family leadership said that a lot of the teen girls reported having bad sexual experiences with older men, and that you now had to stop having "dates" with underage girls?(reply to this comment) |
| | From thme
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 07:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Can u pls ask Steven CRO abt the case of John and Joanna? Maybe ur close to the top!!!
This has been a sore spot for me...
Ans while ur at it....
He's also praticing polygamy as well as his other CRO member...he knows it.... and everyone knows abt it too. UMMM That's also illegal isn't it???/ And by the way his son is GOTHIC.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From mia1
Saturday, December 03, 2005, 16:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would like to know why you would bunch us all as "close minded twisted individuals", most of the people who post here aren't FGA's but rather Seconed Generation who have been through some truly terrible things. It's typical family mentality to try to distract us with the woes of the world while ignoring the cries of their own. Be thankful for the garbage we had eat cuz some kids is starving in africa, yeah whatever, I wish I had the energy to insult you but since I don't I'll state the following. The Family offered a peaceful loving wonderful heavenly place to live love and learn. THEY LIED!!! And they still hide behind that lie. They refuse to acknowledge that they hurt children with their doctrins and beliefs. Nevertheless you Anti-noname still have that mind-set of denial so I will waste no further words with you. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Detective
Friday, December 02, 2005, 23:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
Interesting how the anonymous person who wrote this article registered for a screen name the same day this was posted. Seems like they are the one with the agenda. I am getting suspicious of the recent new “members” (or should I say Family Members) on this site who are spouting so much garbage.
Using “Ha!” endlessly, saying things like child abuse never happened, stating that Berg was just referring to the evolutionary cycle when he said “God made boys and girls capable to have kids when they are 12", talking about the evils in the world that we should be focusing on, in my opinion, point to this person being a Family member. A piece of advice; when you get a new screen name and come back on here try to make yourself seem less like a Family member.
Oh, by the way, got to hell “An Antipathy”; you lying sack of shit.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from ktc
Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 22:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
talking about pedophilia, and its supposed banishment in 1986 or whenever, there's alot of dirt to be dug up in Thailand. This has been mentioned on this site before, but Thai John and Joanna's girls were all sexually abused for years by their perverted Malaysian childcare worker. There was a quiet cover up, and he was ushered out of the country, and excommed, but so what? If TF was so concerned about this issue, they should've detained him and brought him to justice. Instead, after months of having known about it, they stealthily evicted him from the country, and who knows where he is now and who he's abusing. FYI, Thai John's girls were VERY young at the time. Preteens and younger.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From ktc
Friday, November 25, 2005, 02:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
and in addition to that, the mentality of the mother involved was so lame. She just wanted to forget about it all, and to "go on for the Lord." The stepfather in question was excommed from TF "forever" and was banned from using TF's or anything having to do with them. So what? He's somewhere in Australia right now, and God knows what he's doing to other little girls!!!!(reply to this comment) |
| | From ktc
Friday, November 25, 2005, 02:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
this was exposed 2 years ago, and as far as I know, nothing was done as far as counseling the girls. there was a major cover up though withing the Thai Family, as it was explained to J and J that it could cause huge problems to the "very fruitful" ministry of Jonas and Christy there, incidently of which no one really knows where all the money from their concerts and cd's have gone.
In conjunction with all that, there is a case in the PI, where the step daughters of a certain man were abused heavily sexually. The step father in question sexually abused his 11-12 year old daughter, and was then excommed, only to be reinstated a few years later, and then ended up abusing his new stepdaughters. As far as I know, they never received counseling, nor were they ever approached in a comprehensive way by the "shepherds" and given any trauma counseling. I know this for a fact. It's horrible
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From ESJ
Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 17:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
If I understand the current leadership structure, I've heard that Paul and Joy Hartingdon are the area shepherds for the entire South Pacific region. So was it Paul and Joy that dealt with covering up these two major cases of multiple sexual abuses, or were there other leaders involved in doing this? And what are the names of these abusers? Even knowing their Family names and their approximate locations would be a start.(reply to this comment) |
| | From GMC
Friday, November 25, 2005, 16:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
There are two separate cases going on in Australia ,all involving the same family where the male members have had their way with minors including their immediate family.SOP in TF way has been what has so far kept these sick fucks out of prison.TF is imho is the best organised mass pedephile ring in the last 30 years. (reply to this comment) |
| | from DamagedDiva
Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 20:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok, I not defending, the family, or saying that Eva is in anyway lying, but, since when does the family minimise their numbers? I thought they where always braging about how many they have? Death Threats? Really? Hurling bricks, egging cars, swearing? I know most of the Family on the gold coast and while it could be, I never once saw anything like this. The Family is fucked up, but their not the mob.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From ErikMagnusLehnsher
Saturday, November 19, 2005, 20:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Some random thoughts:
A death threat could be as simple "God is going have to kill you to save your soul and stop you from persecuting TF" or somesuch.
The vandalism account was from ex-soldier Glenn McLaren who KNEW some former members. It's entirely possible that somebody trashed his shit and he SUSPECTED it was TF.
With as much publicity as TF has been getting it would not shock me in any way if they were minimizing their membership in certain "sensitive areas" AKA the civilized world.(reply to this comment) |
| | From ESJ
Sunday, November 20, 2005, 10:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was a little pissed off when I read the article and found that the reporter had attrubted quotes to me that I hadn't said. I felt the 'several hundred members' on the Gold Coast was an exaggeration and I never said any such thing. Personally, I have been of the opinion that there are only a few dozen members in my local area (which is what TF spokesperson apparently also said).
After talking to Natalie about it after the article came out, however - (Natalie knows of many full-time and live out Family members in this area and only extricated herself from their circle of influence about 3 years ago) - she assures me that there are a lot more than I realize and that there are a lot of families who've 'returned from the mission field', and others who have moved up this way after having 'burned out the field' (ie: the gullibilty of the public to get sucked into their income scams is drying up) in other the southern states. She says that there could well be a few hundred members populating our joint cities of the Gold Coast and Brisbane. So maybe the reporter was not as inaccurate as I at first felt.
The reason why Paul Hartingdon would be playing down the local Family population numbers is because TF is running scared here. They've 'shut down' some of their front organizations such as FCF (which we know was illegally operating here in Oz up until just recently), and are doing their usual 'going underground till the storm blows over' stunt while the media is shining the spotlight on them. They've got to try to convince the authorities that TF is just a 'small number of missionary families' and is not a threat here, because they are coming under serious investigation again.
Also, re: the death threats: The reporter asked us if any of us had been harrassed or threatened by TF for speaking out. For me, when I was publicly speaking out about TF's abuses of their kids in the early and mid 90's, on several occassions I noticed I was being watched (usually late at night - perhaps to try to scare me) and was followed on several occassions, and I recieved two brief anonymous phone calls (which I reported to the police) where two separate callers, one male, one female, threatened me saying things like 'You're dead. You think you can fight the Lord's annointed? You can't fight us, we will win, and we've got your number and know exactly where you live and everything about you, etc.'...or..."You are doomed to a horrible death, and we're going to see to it that it happens soon,' etc, etc. It was definately TF, but who the two separate voices belonged to, I don't know.
For those who aren't aware of this, ever since TF began to run into big problems with the authorities and with those pesky whistle-blower ex members in the early-to-mid nineties, the top leadership have ordered the development of highly secretive, militantly-minded Family 'investigation teams' which have been formed specifically to spy on and collect data on outspoken ex members and anyone else they deem 'an enemy', and to try to find ways to discredit, silence or hinder them.
For reasons of privacy I can't divulge everything that's been going on for Natalie since she broke away from TF, but she has been working hard to expose the abuses she and her siblings and loved ones have been subjected to and is seeking justice. As a result she and her friend Glen have recieved a number of personal threats of violence from Family-affiliated SGA's, they have taken photos of Family-linked manned vehicles parked outside their house, and they've had the 'harrassment attacks', which were mentioned in the article.
There's one thing we have to face, which is one of the most heartbreaking things in all of this. Of those SGA's who are still affiliated with TF, some of the ones that are in the deepest denial and who have thrown themselves fanatically into believing everything they've been entrained and groomed to believe and act out since birth, they can be very duplicitous. And while they know how to be 'wise as serpents' but appear 'harmless as doves' in the public eye, they can still privately be pretty damaged, confused individuals. They have never had any real balance in their lives or in their psychology.
And if you've got an unbalanced SGA with a lifetime history of fanaticism, dissociation and denial of their own secret pain and their authentic selves, one who has become yet another animated puppet of TF as an adult; - who knows what they may be capable of, and who knows what the really twisted, criminal cronies at the top might be secretly encourageing these 'disposable unstable elements' to do.
Remember TF's tactics are to always immediately dissociate themselves from any member who finds themselves in trouble with the law? They're always immediately 'disowned' and 'officially excommunicated' just so TF can cover itself and distance itself from the fruit of it's own toxic cesspool, and they always claim to no longer have anything to do with the individual in question. So if some leader were to secretly encourage some easily-manipulated, unstable SGA into committing acts against individuals deemed 'the Lord's enemies', TF could then immediately 'disown' them so that they can't be held accountable for anything that happens, and the SGA would be thrown to the wolves as a 'necessary sacrifice'.
I remember Berg himself coming out with a 'persecution' letter in the early ninties going on and on about how if he had a gun on him and he met a Family 'enemy', he would shoot and kill them himself. (I believe he was referring to outspoken ex members, and I believe he was aiming to encourage Family members that 'if they ever had the opportunity, to go ahead and commit murder if necessary' to 'save the Lord's work'). So I wouldn't put it past a few over-zealous members or associate members to think it was 'the Lord's will' to take matters into their own hands and try to scare or harrass their 'enemies' out of doing any further exposures.
That being said, I don't want to go scare-mongering unnecessarily. I believe there's a faint chance of this happening on some level at some time. For now it's just been verbal threats, the odd physical (supposedly 'accidental') assault, and mostly harrassment, threats and spying. But I'm not overly fussed about it. As far as I'm concerend they've already 'lost the war' and are scared to death of being caught out for anything right now while they're in the limelight.
As a matter of interest, has any other ex SG here ever been threatened or harrassed by TF or affiliate members? (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Benz
Monday, November 21, 2005, 04:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
ESJ,
I know my comment is going to draw disapproval from whoever but I think it's only fair to say that Paul and Joy Hardington took my sister in when she had nowhere else to go and had just given birth to my niece & for that I'm grateful. I'd also like to say I do think on the whole that Paul & Joy stand out in TF as good parents to their kids.
Whilst I don't agree with what they believe and I have to deal with the trauma of growing up in TF I am able to separate my past experiences from the behaviour and attitudes Paul & Joy do show to their own kids.
I wish Paul would take a further stand against Berg and Zerby etc, & I do think that things should improve in the sense that they should assimilate more into the community, but to me the fact is there comes a point where we have to live & let live & I wonder whether fighting extremism with complete rejection is really going to achieve a positive outcome.
I know that without the persecutions and raids TF would have never changed in the past, us kids who went to victor camps etc owe alot to people like you who spoke out. I just wonder if there is now a possibility for other ways of achieving success and eventually justice, if people like Paul were willing to talk without feeling attacked would that change anything? - Maybe I'm wrong to think this way, I don't know.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From lisa
Monday, November 21, 2005, 15:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
I grew up with Paul and Joy and they have always treated me, my friends and family very well. Even once we left they where still sapportive and helpful. I thought it took alot of Paul to say, David Berg was wrong, and I know for me it meant a great deal. They where there when I was abused by one of the boys in our home and they stood up and made sure he was dealt with. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From tuneman7
Sunday, November 20, 2005, 17:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
We've been aware of their information gathering tactics from the very beginning.
Right after Richard's death, they went into high gear with this stuff.
We've caught culties photographing victim's vehicles, staking out their homes, photographing their children etc. ...
This group is very shady, and I put nothing beyond them. Back in the days I used to think differently or minize the danger that they pose to survivors.
The leadership view people as completely disposable, and they operate in exactly the same fashion you'd expect from an organized crime syndicate.
They've attempted to intimidate journalists. When we were planning Rick's memorial they sent someone to talk to the hotel management to try to suggest that we'd be engaging in violence or encouraging it etc. ... They went so far as to suggest to the Hotel Management that "violence is not beyond these people, look what Rick did." thankfully we know their tactics and had good legal backup in that transaction.
But it goes to show how low these people are. In other words, a mother trying to prevent her son from having a decent memorial by his friends, which she didn't even have the hear to let his little sister attend. I can't imagine lower people.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Albatross
Sunday, November 20, 2005, 20:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
A cornered rat will fight back. TFI leadership is not beyond very dirty deeds to protect their monopoly on power. Attempts have been made to hack my phone records and email among other things. I expect that as they are further squeezed they will become even more agressive and perhaps even violent. Berg preached violence against his "enemies". It would surprise me not at all if TFI turned to violence or unlawful acts. They have a history of disregarding the law and non-cooperation with law enforcement agencies. I expect we will see more of this as their organization crumbles.(reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Sunday, November 20, 2005, 21:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
Correct. Although it wouldn't be a "turn" to violence or unlawful acts, merely an escalation and return to their violence and unlawful acts. Great violence was committed against us as children and young teenagers, many unlawful acts were committed against us as well. Read the Last State for a chronicle of illegal acts of violence against the most innocent and vulerable. A pattern that was replicated through the group's membership and which many of us suffered in the form of beatings, victor camps and what have you.
Count on criminals to continue being criminals. This is an organized crime syndicate run by seasoned hardened criminals with a history of criminal behavior.
In the U.S., most of us that have been active in the media have taken precautions, hired attourneys, duplicated and archived all data in multiple locations, and maintain close communications. There's strength in numbers and friendship. Only a very stupid person underestinates their enemy.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From ESJ
Sunday, November 20, 2005, 22:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Have just been talking to the journalist who wrote the above article and he says that he has (of course) had a slew of emails from TF and even supposedly 'good friends' of mine (affiliate members I haven't seen since 1988!) completely slandering me in every concievable way and relaying the most ludicrous stories and false 'historical accounts' of my time in TF.
It's about the only 'tactic' TFI has left to defend themselves. Their own 'Defend the Faith' classes teach them "side-step the question by attacking the integrity of the questioner", and pretty much "don't dare ever attempt to confront the real issues being publicized by our ex members, just go on a major smear campaign to try to discredit the errant truth-tellers'.
What they don't realize is that their 'Media Responses' (read 'smear tactics and party-line propaganda') are so blatantly 'loopy' and fanatic, and their languaging all so the same, that only the most ignorant, uninformed researcher could possibly fall for it.
Paul Hartingdon, TF spokesperson here, told the reporter that it was I who was the sex maniac in TF! It was all me, not them! (Oh, phew, thanks for clearing that up). According to these poor talking drones, I'm also an 'over-the-top nut', while at the same time managing to be a 'slick operator' and 'just in it for the money'. - Huh? What money? (I'd be a whole lot richer - and better off in every way - if I didn't speak out and tell the truth about TFI. Doing so has cost me everything).
I burst out laughing when the reporter read me one particular line that said the house I stayed in immediately after leavng TF - (a lost, confused single Mum and kids) - was "..Eva's house of orgies.." where I apparently held raging 'sex parties', and that TF was actually 'trying to help me' during that time. Ha ha ha...! (I can't stop giggling over the blatant idiocy of their whitewashing, and the hilarity of their 'reversal of blame'. It's such an infantile form of 'come back').
Come on guys, can't you come up with anything better than that? My children can verify that from the time I left TF in the 80's I've remained single-and-occasionally-dating - (and without much of a sex life for the past 20 years) - ever since, and that I never throw parties. "Nymphomaniac"? - I wish. (reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, 00:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah,
These characters (TFI), are very low. They've done this to several rape victims of my generation, who suffered at the hands of top leadership and followership alike.
They've done this lying besmirtching business both internally and externally. I've had several reporters tell me that TFI was making blanket comments about detractors being "unstable" etc. ...
Well, many of us do suffer from the effects of PTSD, OCD, ADD and a slew of other behavioral disorders which stuides have shown to be be directly connected to/the result of severe abuse in childhood. However, the truth is that very few people in this world have the fortitude to do what some of the survivors from the second generation have had to do. Work our way through school, and whatnot starting from less than nothing with the weight of years of abuse on our shoulders.
My interpretation of their nonsense is basically that like dogs they only attack those they're scared of.
I'm hoping that they'll continue doing this nonsense and that some reporter will eventually print their lies about survivors and attribute it to a specific source within TFI so that I can sue the pants off of that source in civil litigation. Sure we may not be able to collect any damages, but it'll certainly send a message to anyone in TFI stupid enough to put themselves out as the talking mouths of Zerby and Kelley and Perverts Incorporated. That poor idiot of a spokesperson stupid enough to be the top leadership's minions can take the fall of having huge sums of monies demanded of them by a court system. For a young person it woud be "Game Over" in terms of building a life for themselves should they ever choose to leave. Meanwhile Zerby and Kelley laugh all the way to the aiport to flee to the next country with a postal/communication system that allows them to keep collecting tithes.
That's been their pattern. Expendibles take the fall for them. What criminals.
Be strong. Truth is the ultimate defense.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Albatross
Sunday, November 20, 2005, 23:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
ESJ,
Good luck with all that. My guess is now TFI minions will write the reporter in question and assail him for "unethically" sharing their communication with you. You are right however that TFI is very tone deaf towards how ridiculous their finger pointing rebuttals seem to anyone outside the cult. The reporters I have worked with can barely maintain a facade of journalistic professionalism when dealing with TFI. For the most part they are so put off by them that they make every effort to show their contempt for them in their articles. I think you can point out to reporters that you are not alone in making these accusations against TFI. There are hundreds of us all around the world. Is TFI going to argue that we all are the real deviants? I think not. They try to throw any number of motives at the reporters to see what will stick. I have been called everything from an anti-religious activist, to someone who was just trying to get "Brownie points" at my university, (That was an especially feelble and pathetic try ADO), to someone who was miserable with my life and just trying to blame TFI, to someone who was emotionally and mentally unhinged. Don't let them get to you. They are their own worst enemy. They are so far from reality that it is imposible for them to hide it in whilst having to defend their indifensable beliefs.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Haunted
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, 00:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
We're succeeding.....
The word is spreading....
Last month, I told a friend from work about my past and the cult in order to 'explain' and correct some of the stuff I mentioned to her parents when I first met them.
When she next saw her family and they questioned her about me (they sensed that something was just a little odd about my "cover story") - - surprisingly her older sister already knew everything - she'd been following it in the news, knew all about Ricky and had seen the ABC show and Dr. Phil.
The public is becoming aware and as much as I resent conservative, fundamentalist Christianity overwhelming politics (in my view) in this country, I feel it will fuel the horror that the vast majority of the general public will fell when faced with the reality that was our lives.(reply to this comment) |
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