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from withheld Friday, October 28, 2005 - 21:22 (Agree/Disagree?) I have asked someone else to write this on my behalf as i do not like to visit these sites to much i forced myself to watch some of the footage on the xfamily site i am sorry to sound like a wimp but it just hurts to much.I would just like to say that i know Natalie i spent alot of time with her in Europe and she suffered probably the worst out of us that knew her during and before her teen years, she copped it pretty bad Natalie you must be very strong mentaly to put your face on tv i know your life still is not a very happy one because of that arsehole you had your little boy with . I know and anyone that knows you knows you are a good kind and loving soul and i see now you are strong also i wish you all the best and hope you can get back to the states to your family.When you come back hopefully we can catch up.Im pretty sure you will know who this is as we talked in Janurary just after rickys death. (reply to this comment)

from traceydarez Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 05:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi all, I'm the Tracey who appeared on the NZ & Aus 60 mins Interviews. I wanted to add a couple comments to what was being discussed but it got too long. I posted an article on Speaking out if anyones interested. Regs (reply to this comment)

from jpmagero Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 04:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I have the wmv video file (62 MB) for this if anyone with a server to host it is interested. If you would like a copy of it, please send some ftp details to upload it to. Cheers. (reply to this comment)

from an angry man Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 13:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Stop demonizing the fucking news for busting up your lies. All of you. The Cult put you on TV, they taught you the lies to tell, so they are the only ones responsible. The truth is finally being told and you are crying about your private lives, fuck you. As long as you maintain the lies then you are working for the cult. (reply to this comment)

from an angry man Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 13:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Stop demonizing the fucking news for busting up your lies. All of you. The Cult put you on TV, they taught you the lies to tell, so they are the only ones responsible. The truth is finally being told and you are crying about your private lives, fuck you. As long as you maintain the lies then you are working for the cult. (reply to this comment)

from tuneman7 Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 14:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Excellent show. Major props to those who went on, exceptional job. The truth is getting out. (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 02:31 (Agree/Disagree?) The Lord has laid it on my heart that some of you are sowing division in the ranks. You know who you are, the Lord wants you to shut the fuck up pronto, capisce? No, seriously, I don't think there's any reason to dig into Aussiegirl. It is theoretically possible that she didn't witness any sexual abuse (most of it happened behind closed doors). I understand her anger at being shown on TV as a cult spokesperson. It seems like she's trying to get on with her life in her own way, which for her seems to be denial … I say, if it works, why not… (reply to this comment)

From angrygirl Wednesday, March 08, 2006, 20:38 (Agree/Disagree?) I know aussiegirl as well... and just because some of us has experienced abuse doesn't mean we all have, or have had knowledge of it, and we were all lying in our statements... I think it's great that someone is doing something about the abuse and going on TV shows like this. At the same time I think that that certain people should consider the ramifications of putting footage of ex-family SGA, who may have been very young at the time…doing testimonies taken years ago... as some of these people have since left the family and have moved on with their lives and maybe haven't told anyone about their past. I think it would be good to check or at least try and find that person and get their permission before using other peoples footage…as it can hurt some people more then help. At least find out if they are an ex-member!!! Before using them as an example of a family Kid lying on stand… (reply to this comment)

From rubeingserved Thursday, March 09, 2006, 01:53 (Agree/Disagree?) It was out of the hands of the people who featured on the 60mins program.The producers of the show came up with that footage they(The Ex cult victims) didn't even know about it untill it was aired.(reply to this comment)

From Collateral damage Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 22:58 (Agree/Disagree?) I call what happened to Aussiegirl collateral media damage. It's hard to choose what footage the networks use when they air the shows, some of it is stock, some of it we supply. When we watched Dr. Phil one of my buddies about hit the roof when he saw his mom dancing nude - collateral damage. Aussiegirl is a good friend of my wife China and I'm certain you spoke what was the truth for you at the time, and very well might still be. Not everyone was sexually molested in TF and different people have different opinions regarding the classification of abuse. I throw everything in, from the TK's to the BJ's. Aussiegirl is well within her right to feel exploited by the media, I'm not too sure how they got your tape but it doesn't sound to me like Eva St. John gave it to them. Don't worry about the lasting effects of your 5 second spot, it'll blow over. It takes a lot of guts getting in front of a camera knowing full well that what you say will be recorded in history's archives. I suggest that no one goes in front of a camera without being fully committed to it's consequences on your personal life, your career, your classification by The Family and your future relationships with any friends or family still in the cult. Giving these types of interviews are physically and emotionally draining. I've now sat through plenty of them and watched our generation dig up things in their past that they had long ago buried and I always walk out teary eyed and drained. I suggest we support those that go in front of the camera and get exploited by the media for this cause and keep the in-fighting focused on The Family. I have to say though that the 60 minutes program was outstanding. Cheers to all of you who had a part in it. I didn't think I could get shocked by much anymore but hearing about an 18 month with VD just re-focused me. It's time for The Family to be just a bad memory and nothing more, your program just put me back in the game. I also wanted to thank Eva St. John for being brave enough to get up there for us and put your neck out on the line. I only hope other FGA's that damn well know what we went through have as much courage as you to be a voice for us and validate us in the open on camera and come out of the shadows. What you did was big in my book and I hope you and your children have been able to heal over this experience. John Jr. (reply to this comment)

From Eva St John Thursday, October 20, 2005, 05:08 (Agree/Disagree?) This is a subject of grave concern to me which we need more SGA feed-back on. In our case, the Australian, and especially the NZ 60 Minutes reports showed a lot of old Family video footage of SG’s in the Teen Training camps and doing sexy dances for the camera, not to mention quite a bit of adult women strip-teasing as well, most of whom were somebody’s mother. (The NZ producers were more sensitive in that they didn’t tweek the grainy old footage to look better for TV, they kept it grainy and in B&W so as to try to keep the identities of the children ‘fuzzy’ on purpose). But I’ve been really worried that if any recovering SGA’s were to suddenly see themselves as a half-naked child on national television (or on the xfamily website), or as in the case above, see their mother (or father) in a similar ‘compromising position’, it could really freak them out and cause them a lot of hurt. Aussiegirl’s outrage is another case in point. Due to the fact that it’s been such a fight getting the authorities to believe us because of TF’s aggressive whitewashing and propaganda campaigns and the member SG’s trained denials, it is important that we ‘produce the evidence’ to prove that the stories of the recovering SGA’s are true. But at what cost? Is it worth the risk that it might cause some fragile SGA to have a shock melt-down? I really worry about this. It’s important to expose TF’s abuse and lies, but it is equally important to see that no more harm or hurt comes to those recovering from their past. It’s a real quandary, and I don’t know the answer to this. So I wanted to ask you SGA’s if you could ask yourselves…’How would I feel if I saw myself in these videos being shown on some TV report? Could I handle it okay? Is it worth it to expose TF?’ It might be helpful to come to a general consensus on this. Take care, Eva(reply to this comment)

From Saturday, October 22, 2005, 21:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi Eva, I saw myself pretty plainly on the TTC video. I am happy that the image was shown in the context of a show that was pretty good at revealing the truth about the Family. Some of the things Paul Hartingdon said, such as "some people just can't be helped to get the positive from their experiences" spoke for itself. Thank you for your courage. As others have noted, having a strong voice from our parent's generation helps. So many contributed to the nightmare, but so, SO few did anything to make up for things. You are among a select cadre of people with a very special brand of guts. Thank you. I wish you were my mother!(reply to this comment)

From Ken Maret Saturday, October 22, 2005, 20:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi Eva, First of all I want say thanks to you and the others who appeared on the shows. As an SGer who was heavily involved in the Oz raids I'm all too familiar with the huge emotional drain and amount of courage it takes to do something like this. To the other SGers who appeared let me say that the mental committment needed to speak out like this often turns out to be very theraputic. For me it was the final proof in my own mind that I really had managed to break away from it all. It was the moment that the real healing began. While watching the shows last night I was stunned to also see brief footage of myself in there as a teenage boy. I was fully clothed, fortunately, but it was a shock none-the-less and brought back many difficult memories. I can't speak for other kids, and I doubt you'll ever get that "general concensus" you seek, but rest assured that for me at least it was immensely satisfying. Little did I know at the time that those recordings would come back 20 years later to help expose what they were doing to us. The single most important priority in all of this has to be the prevention of abuse of other children. Everything else comes second. Surely we can all agree on that? If that means being unexpectedly confronted by the more sordid elements of our past then that is unfortunately the price we must pay. Trust me, we've been through worse! It's more important that the truth is out there so people know exactly what these monsters did to us and continue to do to other children to this day. To draw upon an overly-used cliche, you don't see too many jews complaining about the broadcast of Auschwitz footage! I, for one, have no objection to the world seeing Family footage of me as a child, clothed or otherwise, and I have nothing but thanks for whoever passed that tape on. (reply to this comment)

From not a frequent poster Thursday, October 20, 2005, 15:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi, The Oz 60 minute show was great, and I can only admire the incredible courage of all those who voluntarily appeared on the show. It was one of the best shows to date, IMO, as it let you actually speak. I was surprised, like others, that 60 minutes did not fuzz out the faces of the children, and that they used aussiegirl's old testimony without her knowledge or consent. I feel that that was quite unethical, to put it mildly. As for developing a consensus of sorts, as Eva discusses, I would like to raise a voice of caution. I don't think that it is possible to develop a consensus. The people who visit this site and who post here are a fraction, probably a minority of SGAs who were in the cult. Posters cannot develop a consensus for other people, as it would in essence be speaking for others. No one here can say what is right for others in these matters. So I would suggest that rather than trying to develop a consensus, that the focus be on exploring what is ethical, and then adapt those ethical standards. For example, if people who are involved with the media say that they will not participate in a given show unless certain guidelines are adhered to, -- such as no faces of children without their consent -- they have a chance of influencing the media producers. But the time to do this is at the beginning, when the media comes calling. That is the time to exert pressure. You have something they want, and so you lay down the conditions of your participation and get it in writing before you give interviews. Once you have consented to participate, you lose the opportunity to influence these kinds of things. I believe that people speaking out can and should insist on the stories being presented in an ethical manner. The last thing anyone needs to do is be party to efforts that further victimize the victims. So now I've written this and realise that maybe this is what Eva was driving at. But even if there was a "consensus" here that it's ok to break a few eggs to make an omelette, I'd still say that it's wrong -- showing the faces of children in the media without their permission. The Oz show was a learning experience. It seemed to me to be pretty good and again, I have nothing but admiration for those who participated. The emotional toll must have been quite high. You're very brave. (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, October 20, 2005, 16:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I recently had a reporter laugh at the notion that this is how the media works. The implication was that it's a perfect way to have no stories (except for the cult's).(reply to this comment)

From Houyh Thursday, October 20, 2005, 09:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I like where this discussion is headed. Exposing TFI is a difficult and painful first step. It's unfortunately up to the victims to do this. But what was substantial in the 60 Minutes production was an FGA who was willing to collaborate the abuse. Its good to see a parent stand up and speak out on the behalf of their children. Its a tough thing to do. But it kicks the reality of this story up another level. If the FGAs were willing to "forsake all" for themselves thirty years ago, then can they be willing to "forsake all" again today for their children. Our history cannot be "tweeked" to present a false image without a consequential cost to everyone involved in that history. We "walk out of our history" once we've placed it properly.(reply to this comment)

From Repeat after Me Saturday, October 29, 2005, 22:01 (Agree/Disagree?) "Collaborate means to help, to confirm is to corroborate." A little effort, m'kay? Unlike us, you were given a high school education.(reply to this comment)

From UTalkinTaMe? Sunday, October 30, 2005, 21:14 (Agree/Disagree?) If your comment is directed at me, pal, sorry to disappoint you. I was a troubled kid from a dysfunctional family, too, (which is why I fell prey to TF at 16) and spent a great deal of my junior high years in non-attendance, then ran away from home at 15. All I got from my school education was how to read, write, add and subtract. - Any further education I got, I've recieved since leaving TF, like the SG's. - Cheers, ESJ(reply to this comment)

From Not Talking to You Monday, October 31, 2005, 06:59 (Agree/Disagree?) Talking to "Houyh" aka Jim.(reply to this comment)

From ESJ Monday, October 31, 2005, 16:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Oooh, okay...dah...silly me. Carry on.(reply to this comment)

From P()$Er Saturday, October 29, 2005, 22:18 (Agree/Disagree?) nicely said....(he must have been one of the grammar teachers we had in TF) ha!(reply to this comment)

From Nah Saturday, October 29, 2005, 22:51 (Agree/Disagree?) He joined the cult in its founding days and was in like 5 years, until 1975 so I don't think he was ever a childcare person, he is a guy after all. He left too early to be a teacher. He was probably a shepherd.(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:15 (Agree/Disagree?) It's true, I remember talking to the police about my abuse and then to the judge. During that time I was looking through my old cut around the edges pictures to find pictures of some of my abusers and I stumbled accross a few of me lying on a bed nude at 3 -4 years old with my hands above my head and different other poses that are not natural for a naked child and I remember distincly when they were taken and the shock was awfull realising that at the time I thought it was normal but how looking back at them it was sick to think that I was being photographed for a different sexual intent. I still find it hard seeing diaper/nappy commercials that show babies fronts and bums close up.(reply to this comment)

From Problem solved Thursday, October 20, 2005, 08:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Blur out the faces, duh!(reply to this comment)

From gragon Thursday, October 20, 2005, 08:00 (Agree/Disagree?) All of my childhood photos were destroyed many years ago, most were destroyed way prior to purges. A few years ago I visited my dad who had left when I was 2 and he had photos that we had sent him. Viewing those photos was very rough for me. Realizing my age at the times of those photos brought the deluge of memories of what was actually taking place at the time. It took me several months to recover from this. I know that I was in at least two videos during the course of my childhood. I also know that there is that possibility that one day they will surface, and that my friends and family could possibly see them. While the thought of this is very upsetting, and I'm sure would be even more upsetting should these videos surface, it is something that I think would also be liberating. For one, it validates my story and everyone else's like mine. It puts a face on the abuse. Not just so and so happened, but look at the beautiful, innocent faces of these babies! Look at what's happening to them! It slams it in your face and you are forced to deal with it. Those videos prove what we have been saying and they have been denying. Those videos help to ensure that it never happens again. IMO my initial discomfort from seeing them would be trivial compared to what I would gain from it. Not speaking for anyone else...just my two cents. (reply to this comment)

From Natalie Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 03:12 (Agree/Disagree?) The point that is trying to be made here is that Aussiegirl spoke as a voice for those little ones who had no voice and said that they all we not abused so if you are going to speak for more than yourself you have to be prepared for the consequence.(reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 23:03 (Agree/Disagree?) A lot of that can be blamed on the fact that what she said was something we all said while in The Family, deny, deny. I think everyone deserves a clean slate after leaving. She'll have to figure out for herself, if she hasn't already, what she classifies as abuse and what doesn't. (reply to this comment)

From vixen Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 03:59 (Agree/Disagree?) omg I must be tired! I only just read your comment in relation to wolf's, and promptly realised that you were, in fact, making the exact same point that I just made in my opening paragraph below. Sorry about that and please disregard my first statement. :-)(reply to this comment)

From vixen Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 03:56 (Agree/Disagree?) My (rather obvious) point in answer to your statement would be that aussiegirl had no right to speak for anyone at all but herself. Did she know for certain that none of those children had been abused? I should think not! Having said that, this argument is quite redundant since I believe that all of us accept that ultimately TF is to be held wholly responsible for instructing aussiegirl to speak out in public like that, in the first place. It was not her battle and she should not have been used as a human shield. It's unfortunate that her life has been messed up by the footage that this show aired, but I fail to see how her defending what she said will help the situation at all. If, as others have already commented, she still cannot see that in speaking out on behalf of TF (unless she spoke ONLY for herself, which I don't know since I haven't seen the clip in question), she did, indirectly and without any intention on her part, I'm sure, do justice a great disservice, then she certainly is in denial and I am afraid she has a lot of thinking to do in order to properly come to terms with her past within the cult. Perhaps that's one reason why she felt it necessary to hide her background in the first place. Again, I want to impress upon everyone that I am in no way blaming aussiegirl for the part she played in defending the family. She said what she had been taught to say and we all know that at the time we said those things to defend TF we genuinely believed that we were justified in doing so. I do, however, take issue with this comment: 'We are talking about sexual abuse and the interview was regarding the children involved in the raids. I was not speaking for ever(sic) child on earth!!! How dare you say that "I knew it had happened to others". Children were not being sexually abused!' I take offense because I feel it is wrong to assert that no one was being abused. It might be perfectly true but it might well not be! Aussiegirl, I am genuinely sorry for you that this footage has screwed up the life that you have buiilt for yourself. I hope you can get over this issue without too much loss of confidence and that things will work out with your work, family and friends. But be careful about denying that any abuse at all was happening unless you can say, hand on heart, that you are absolutely sure of it. At the end of the day, you don't need to be defensive about what you said, you were young and thought you were doing the right thing. Good luck, and maybe this episode will put the 'skeletons' to bed once and for all. (reply to this comment)

from neez Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 23:54 (Agree/Disagree?) It was an excellent show. Pulling no punches unlike everything else I've seen to date. Doesn't say much for certain-countries-who-shall-remain-nameless's media(ahem.. Current Affair) but I digress. To everyone that had the guts to appear on the show, all I can say is thank you. (reply to this comment)

from Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 23:10 (Agree/Disagree?) I just watched the program and it is amazing. Kudos to all of you who showed your faces and exposed the truth. Natalie, you are beautiful and strong--love from sis. I know everything you said is true--I was there with you. (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 13:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Richard, Tracy and Natalie – I am speechless. Your courage was astounding. I don’t think I could say those things in public. You have put another nail in the cult’s coffin. May be all be so brave if given the opportunity. (reply to this comment)

From Wolf Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 13:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I meant to write "May WE all be so brave"(reply to this comment)

from I agree Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Just read this post on exfamily and thought he hit quite few nails on the head-Briliant Daniel http://www.exfamily.org/cgi-bin/gf.pl?fmt=dyn&t=chatbbs&m=9&s=0&r=chatbbs/genx/genx_main.html "I haven't yet seen the NZ footage. Do you know where I might find it? As for the 60 minutes show: Verbatim transcript of the video sent to Berg: MAN: And it was a really a blessing too for Joe and Hobo because they had a good chance to share also with Sally. WOMAN: Amen. (Giggles) MAN: So the Lord is really setting us freer and freer to obey and to be free. There is no escaping the reality of this video. We have an adult father telling Berg how they are becoming free and OBEYING by having the boy on the video "share" with the adult woman. This puts an image to what so many of us have been saying occurred. I think the operative word is OBEY. A powerful word suggesting that their actions were done in obedience to directives from Berg. That is a smoking gun. There are many smoking guns. It is gratifying to see so egregious a one as this make its way onto TV. An aside: 12 years or more of Family machinations to launder their image and repackage themselves as little more than a wholesome Christian charity organization without actually making the difficult choice to own up to their sordid past have been deal a serious blow in 9 months of media stories. The Family understands the reality of search engines and archived media to create facts on the ground as to what the nature of their organizations is. This is why they expend so much energy on Google advertising and other web based promotions. The fact is that the word Cult and the name The Family are inextricably linked in countless archived articles. A baseline has been established for understanding this group. The fruits of years of massaging and catering to their apologist academics were swept away by one 56-minute tape made by Ricky and the subsequent media stories. Family spokespersons have shown an increasing unwillingness to be filmed for TV. I believe that this is due to the fact that now that the reporters know what questions to ask about TF’s past activities, there is no way for people such as Borowik to appears as anything less than evasive and guilty. Media reports, while not always complete, or satisfying in investigative vigor, have nevertheless been overwhelmingly supportive of the victim’s position. As anyone who has worked with the media will tell you, despite the seemingly obvious crimes committed on us, it is not a given that our accounts will be believed. There will be many more media stories in the next few years. I anticipate that not all of those will be gentle on the victims. However I believe the balance will favor us. Wherever and however else we are able to find success in bringing justice for the victims of TF’s crimes, I consider every article a powerful blow for the victims. For every rape, molestation, and beating that occurred under the aegis of Family leadership or policy, we are dealing them difficulty, expense, and unfavorable publicity. I’ve said this often, but it bears repeating. We have youthful vigor and determination behind us. We often are better educated and tend to be much more image-aware and media savvy. We are well versed in their thought patterns and “know our enemy”. Most importantly we can speak from a position of strength and righteous indignations with nothing to hide. This cannot be said for TF. They have the added disadvantage of having recorded their crimes in an almost Nazi-like meticulousness and glee. The subsequent retractions of their pubs only serve to highlight their guilt. It may be that their Armageddon will not come in a thunderous explosion but perhaps as with the old Chinese torture, they will be undone in the “death by a thousand cuts.” Daniel Roselle " (reply to this comment)

From Natalie Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 03:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said. We should be getting the NZ footage on in the next couple of days-check the exfamily website.Remember everyone that if we work as a team we are stronger.(reply to this comment)

from Natalie Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 04:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Hello my name is Natalie i am 23 years old born to the children of god in New Delhi India.I was one of the women that spoke on the 60 minutes program.I am stating that all i have said to the 60 minutes program is true.Rachell you are older than me so you would have been born in the prime of it all ,are you saying you didn't fill out your daily ohr's,you didn't read heavens girl ,davidito,teen sex, the love story,you didn't know about tony and mene you didn't witness orges or couples loving up,or read life with grandpa,you didn't know of or participate in glorify god with your body dancing, hear about or know of victor camps,what about provisioning how old were you,when did you first have sex or sexually related contact with an adult or someone your own age .The list goes on ,so think on that for a minute then tell me im a liar and or that your didn't suffer any sexual abuse.I appreciate your way of moving on. But you have already once spoken out in australia as the voice for all second generation and said no sexual abuse occurred.You have now hear some of the proof even one of your old friends has said she was in the same home as you when her abuse occured.Please leave it alone this time as my son is involved now and has been abused himself by a former member just last year.Speak for yourself not anyone else. (reply to this comment)

From Juju Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 22:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Natalie - your courage, honesty & bravery shone through on Sixty minutes. THE TRUTH WAS TOLD! and you told it for everyone! Thank you! You will never have to convince anyone ever again that you ARE telling the truth my darling. All those people out there that thought otherwise can go to buggery. And guess what - they dont matter anyway. xxxoooxxx(reply to this comment)

From Natalie Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 04:37 (Agree/Disagree?) sorry about the few grammer/spelling mistakes I am so tired and my computor is acting up.(reply to this comment)

From Natalie Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 04:45 (Agree/Disagree?) shit I even stuffed that up "computer" sorry (reply to this comment)

from Aussiegirl Monday, October 17, 2005 - 20:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Regardless of the content of the 60 minutes show aired the other night, I am livid that they decided to use old footage of myself being interviewed with Channel 9 - 12 years ago when I was 17. I have been out of TF for 8 years and have a new life, a new guy, new friends and a good job, most of whom I have not enlightened on my past living in TF. I am absolutely furious that people I work with and family of my partner recognised me on TV and Eva didn't even have the decency to ask find out if I was even still in TF!!! Now it's only created questions at work and with my family and friends and God knows no one needs to deal with shit like that when you have spent so much time to move on and forward with your life!! On top of that the ex-fam adults being interviewed on the show made out that I was lying at that interview -- which is another lie! Look if people want to say they were sexually assulted while in TF that's their deal, but don't accuse someone else of lying on TV and insinuate that I am still in TF. I still maintain what I said was true! I'm not defending TF but I am defending myself. Look if they wanted do the show..fine -- but they should have gone and gotten some current footage of people in TF and not dig up old stuff. Didn't Liz Hayes say during the show that thousands of young people have now left TF? Did it cross their mind that I might be one of them? I think I am owed an apology from Channel 9! (reply to this comment)

From I understand Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 13:03 (Agree/Disagree?) Aussiegirl, I think I would also be upset if something like that were used about me. Especially if it implied that I'm still in the cult. But instead of being "livid," maybe you could come out with a "before and after" the cult statement that describes how we were taught to lie and so brainwashed that we never thought what happened to us constituted abuse. It could also help explain all the comments on Myconclusion.com; many of those kids will leave the cult some day, and within a few years retract what they said under while still under the influence of the cult. Just a thought.(reply to this comment)

From a thought Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 13:29 (Agree/Disagree?) I think the point was also that it was an unwanted jolt back into a life she had left behind. What she did not appreciate was someone publicly broadcasting a part of her past life - circumstances over which she had precious little control, I might add - thereby forcing her into an uncomfortable position both socially and at work. The past quite clearly cannot be changed, and I am all for taking responsibility for ones' own actions, however, I would think that there are, or perhaps should be, limits to the impact on our (collective) futures of our (collective) pursuit of justice for past abuse. Particularly in cases such as this where the one impacted was at the time doing nothing more than attempting to quietly carry on building their new life outside the cult.(reply to this comment)

From vixen Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 14:36 (Agree/Disagree?) ^^^ The above scenario is exactly why I have elected to be open with everyone about my background. I do not want to go about my life always fearing the possibility that someone might find out 'the truth' about me, particularly since the act of hiding my past would, IMO, send the message that I am ashamed of my past and therefore of myself. As it is, I can hold my head up and say with certainty that I am not in the least embarrassed over the elements in my life that were completely out of my control. My past holds no power over me, because I do not let it become an issue. But that's only the way i feel is right for me, I suppose. (reply to this comment)

From not so understanding Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 13:14 (Agree/Disagree?) I just scrolled down and read some more of the comments.....ummm I'm not so sure I am all that understanding after all because you still think you were justified in telling the truth. Plus you weren't forced to go on TV back then, you probably thought it would score you brownie points with the leaders. I know I did--and it worked (I got to move to a "nicer" home). If you still think you told the truth, then maybe you should start to worry about what your co-workers think about you now.(reply to this comment)

From Mixza Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 19:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Rachel, haha...bet that was a shock to see that old tape...i was just broswing MSN checking the news, and what do ya know! anyway, i agree with you, im sure that there were kids that were sexually abused in the late 80s in AUS, but mom and dad looked after us pretty well and we must have been spared the brunt as a result. i dont think sexual abuse was as wide spead in AUS as it may have been in asia/s. america etc. I do remember some sus activity at the `club` home in sydney when we first got back to AUS, but i was too young to put it all together. sure the family was a crap place to grow up, all the stupid rules and excessive dicipline and whatnot, but i dont remember actually witnessing any sexual abuse at all. i remember the raids quite clearly, i remember being interviewed by the social workers when we were in custody. i distinctly remember being on the defensive and making a effort not to say anything incriminating - it almost felt as if i was defending myself - on trial so to speak - so i dont blame you for saying what you said and i share your current position. all us kids that were taken away in the raids said the same thing - i mean, none of us wanted to be separated from our parents, we had been preped just weeks before the raids - and most of us wouldnt have known what consitituted abuse at the time anyway. cheers and good luck squezing an apology frm CH9. (reply to this comment)

From damn! Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 13:16 (Agree/Disagree?) There's a terrible typo in the above comment (the problem with submitting a comment before reading over it!!) I didn't mean that you think you were "justified in telling the truth" -- I meant "justified in defending the cult" My bad!!!(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 16:19 (Agree/Disagree?) ^^^ you could always ask admin to edit your original comment to reflect what you meant to say.(reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 11:11 (Agree/Disagree?) What Zerby said in the summit jewels-it’s priceless all right! " I am sorry that we couldn't come out a little forthrightly in the Child Abuse Statement, bringing out the point that all sex between adults and minors is all bad, sinful, harmful or abusive. However the problem was that we didn't know how much we could say without putting the Family in legal risk. We would not have been afraid to admit more if we had known we could to it legally, but we had to be careful and try and protect the Family, and since at the time we were unable to get expert advice on that subject, we had to do the best we could.” “130. The Lord may be trying to force us to come out (Me; and now the second generation are calling for it too) more with our full beliefs on this matter and to take a stand for this. Of course this what we have talked about and debated (Me; too much masturbating I think) for months, how much we should say, how much could we say etc..” “The way we present this is very delicate, as on the one hand we could get in big trouble with the system & on the other hand if we handle it the wrong way there is a danger that the family will feel that we are saying the letters were wrong and what Dad (Berg) had to say in those letters was not right and was a mistake.” “We defiantly don’t believe (underlined) that and we don’t want to give that impression so we certainly have to avoid that at all costs.” 131. I’m really concerned about this subject, (Me; she’s concerned that TF kids will think we shouldn’t be touched by uncle slime-ball) not only how to present it to the public, but also because our JETTS and Teens seem to be overwhelmingly getting the idea that all of our sexual freedoms have been wrong. (Me; you don’t say!) Many of them already have that idea, that the letters must have been wrong and that Dad (Berg) had had been wrong all this time. They’re attitudes and what they are saying now are indicating this, that all sexual experiences they’ve had in the past were wrong. We are hearing it from all quarters and if we don’t put something in print about it, then I don’t know how we are going to dispel these wrong ideas. 132. We may have to eventually just come out and say “Look, the letters were not wrong, and loving acts of affection, even those with a sexual tone to them are not wrong in Gods eyes.” “However they are not right for us now for several reasons, number one is that in the eyes of the system they are illegal. (Me; boy aren’t they just) Number two, they usually have not born good fruit, not because of the act it’s self, but a relationship between much younger people and older ones seems to be too distracting. Number three, because of they’re misunderstandings (Me; our fault again) about the subject younger people may not be ready for any type of sexual involvement until they are older.” “135. Of course, I realise there is a certain risk in declaring there is nothing wrong with it in God’s eyes, and we’ve been hesitant to publicly proclaim that. (Me; we are still waiting) However I don’t know how can we get into any hotter water than we are in already…Even if the whole world believes it is wrong we may have to make a stand on it eventually and tell the truth about it.” “We’re even coming out and telling the system about the Jews now. This is about the only subject where we’re really going along with the system, we’re playing along with them, we’re acting like we believe that what we did was wrong…” “In other words we are saying by inference that we do believe it is wrong, because look we don’t do it anymore. No wonder all our teens are getting the idea that it was all evil.” “138. Perhaps we could all write something explaining all this to our kids. Of course our enemies would get it very quickly and use it against us, but maybe we need to take that risk for the sake of our children and the TRUTH” Photocopies found at http://www.newdaynews.com/ Is the full summit jewels in an article on this site anywhere?(reply to this comment)

From Houyh Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 16:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Today's Oprah Winfrey Show (Oct. 18, 2005) featured Laveranues Coles, an NFL player who was serially raped by his step-father while a gun was held to his head. The similarities to abuse in TFI are there (replace the gun with a book). Especially impressive was this man's reasons for speaking out. His willingness to do so also set him free from his perpetrator. Its a show that shouldn't be missed.(reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 11:12 (Agree/Disagree?) whoops, wrong place.(reply to this comment)

From Fish Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 09:36 (Agree/Disagree?) I would sue the fuckers. Thats just not right.(reply to this comment)

From weegirlie Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 08:08 (Agree/Disagree?) I would feel sorry for your predicament, except that your actually trying to justify this statement "I know myself I've never been abused and nor have any of the other children". I couldn't care less whether you want to be in denial about being abused in TF (and we were all abused is so many other ways than sexually, if you think you can justify this statement by being one of the few who weren't sexually abused), but to say that none of the other children were is just sicken. I'm shocked that even after 8 years you are still being so delusional with yourself. :((reply to this comment)

From not sure Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 13:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't think Aussiegirl is all that delusional that she was never abused in the cult. The very fact that she has never told her co-workers about her past indicates that she is not happy about it. Plus she was upset that it implied she was still in the cult.(reply to this comment)

From lisa Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 03:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I have to say, that the first thing I thought when I saw it was that, Aussie girl was going to be really upset. Like she said its so unfair that her life can be torn apart at random. She had no choice to be on that show. I was abused as a child in Australia, in the home she was in, that doesn't mean she knew anything about it. I too lied black and blue at the time of the raids, and I would again. The raids was awful, its one of the most upseting and terrifying things that have happened to me and my family, one of my biggest fears about speaking out has always been that, in some way I might be responsible for something similuar happening. Everyone of us is looking for ways to move on and put our lives together, and I think that its insane when one of us manages it, still they are dragged back in. I realize that alot of what was on the show needed to be said and that it was for the people on it a release. I really have no idea what my point is :P I guess I just wanted to say what was on my mind. (reply to this comment)

From traceydarez Saturday, October 22, 2005, 07:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Lisa, As bad as those raids were for all the children, parents, social workers, police, ex-members etc, think of what outcomes were achieved. It scared many parents into separating themselves and taking a good look into the mirror. It got alot of those kids out of TF homes for 1-2 hours a week - into a place were it was about learning to think, something we were never taught. And I believe the raids were also responsible for a lot of members leaving, possibly even you or your family in the long run - would your life be different today had the raids never taken place??? It certainly put an iron fence up around the majority of the children abused or un-abused, ensuring that any possibility of wrong doing in relation to the kids was canned for a couple years. Think of the kids who escaped the tourment of sexual abuse because of the raids. Some of the scariest moments in my life when i have been under the most stress have had, in hindsight, the most positive effect on my future. Something to think on maybe?(reply to this comment)

From Saturday, October 22, 2005, 11:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I subscribe to a somewhat similar notion to yours ("Some of the scariest moments in my life when i have been under the most stress have had, in hindsight, the most positive effect on my future"). I have observed that amidst the daily misery that I was used to in the cult (not ever having tasted a different life), there were certain intrusions that seemed to jack up the unhappiness to a level that interrupted the steady level of my slave existence. For example, I will never forget someone on a street when I was postering who pointed out that I was in a cult and some other kind of criticism. Then there were other incidents, some where people in the cult were extra unfair, others where the outside world intruded, others where something happened to someone I cared about. At the time, they increased my misery. But they hastened my escape. I ended up leaving earlier than others who seemed to have it less bad at the time, and I ended up getting an earlier start on a new life.(reply to this comment)

From neez Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 23:32 (Agree/Disagree?) The raids really weren't that bad. The worst thing I remember about them is being given a maths placement test... The horror! I mean seriously, what happened during those weeks that still terrifies you now? And I mean actual stuff that happened. Because,for example, you thinking that the apocalypse was happening and that they were about to torture then shoot us all was hardly the fault of the social workers.(reply to this comment)

From lisa Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 05:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Ver true, very true, it could have been alot worse. Don't be so quick to discount the raids though, I know in my family at least there is still alot of pain from it. More so from the media that surrounded it. But yes, we had it pretty good, and in general the family in australia was probably the most normal.I don't think we ever ate as much as we did in 'ormand'. (reply to this comment)

From neez Thursday, October 20, 2005, 00:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes it could've been worse. It could've never happened.(reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 05:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Well I damn well hope member's of TF are reading this; yet another abusive practise that has caused harm to their children; Making them so afraid of the 'system' and it's 'anti-christ soilders' It was all so real to young children and I can imagine just how frightened of the police and social workers you were. Especially listening to bedtime stories of 'onward christian soilders' and christians being shot on the ice-not to mention 'Mommy don't go to the supermarket today' and the like. Where is the compensation for the children who were frightened of TF and our abusers? (reply to this comment)

From trying to remember Saturday, October 22, 2005, 10:53 (Agree/Disagree?) 'Mommy don't go to the supermarket today' Rings a bell but I can't quite place it...what was that from?(reply to this comment)

From isn't it Saturday, October 22, 2005, 11:43 (Agree/Disagree?) "Cathy don't go to the supermarket today/without a computer ID there's no way to pay", from some song by Jeremy Spencer that was on one of their first music videos. "There's a very strange man at the checkout stand, and there's a laser scanner where they put your hand" and "it may cost you your soul"(reply to this comment)

From lisa Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 16:20 (Agree/Disagree?) You know when they split us up from the older kids, we actually thought the where going to line them up and shoot them. I remember, us all wispering about the back room and wondering if we would be strong enough to withstand the torture. We where such fucked up little children.(reply to this comment)

From Fish Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 09:38 (Agree/Disagree?) But I want to buy beans at a give-away price..(reply to this comment)

From Natalie Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 03:46 (Agree/Disagree?) It takes alot of courage to put your face on tv to say you were abused.My life has been torn from pillar to post,what do you think people think of me now?Rachel went on that program knowing that for the rest of her life that footage could be seen again ,just like i know, but i also know that i am not lying.I will put that to test with any that say otherwise.Those of us that live with the reality of what happened, to all of us ,unless you consider heavens girl the girl who wouldn't davidito story etc classic childrens reading literature and if you did and still do you should not have children in your care.I know i was subject to much more but that is another story. (reply to this comment)

From lisa Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 03:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Sorry I didn't mean to imply that Rachel was lying.(reply to this comment)

From upoorlittlegirl Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 03:03 (Agree/Disagree?) You dont have the right to say it didn't happen to any one else,you only have the right to say it did or didn't happen to you.You were also 17/18 when you did that interveiw!What about the little ones that were not allowed to speak out? (reply to this comment)

From Monday, October 17, 2005, 23:47 (Agree/Disagree?) Eva didn't have any Idea what footage they would use, all she did was give an interview to a news agency. She is not in control of what the media does. I really resent the fact the fact that you used this site to express your lividity. This site is very closely monitored by both TFI and the media, and you just internationally rebuked us in front of them all. You say that you aren't defending TF but they will eat this up. "Former family member verifies that statements made while in TF are still true." If you weren't abused I'm happy for you, but you just pissed on everyone that was. The damage you are experiencing now was done the minute TFI put you in front of a camera, they put you in the place to make those statements on video record, covering them up now is impossible and is certainly not the responsibility of ESJ or movingon.org or any other Exmember. You are right to be upset, but youv'e gone about it all wrong.(reply to this comment)

From ErikMagnusLehnsher Monday, October 17, 2005, 22:45 (Agree/Disagree?) FWIW, I identify with your situation. When I watch programs featuring old Family footage I always cringe at the the thought of my mug appearing on the T.V. and wreaking havok in the new life that I have created. Some of us are obviously more candid and courageous about our past and our upbringing but I zealously guard information about my past. The bottom line is it's unfair. To be featured on high profile show in the context that you were really adds insult to injury. As much as we struggle to educate ourselves, carve out own lives and make our own decisions it's simply unfair to be publicly showcased and have our private lives dragged out on television. Unfortunately, I just see it as a sad legacy that many of us may always carry and one day I may be writing a post not unlike yours. I know it's sounds cliche but it's not exclusively our experiences or upbringing that make us what we are. I can only hope that your friends and co-workers, having gotten to know you over time, can appreciate you for who you are. Just because we were raised in a circus doesn't mean we're all circus clowns and carnies. We didn't choose to be raised in TF. Many of us worked hard, endured a lot, did as we were told, smiled for the cameras and some of us were abused. We did, however, choose to leave and start new lives. Well, I suck at this type of thing so I apologize if this is a worthless bunch of drivel. Best of luck to you. I hope things work out. Sympathetically, EML(reply to this comment)

From another aussie Monday, October 17, 2005, 22:35 (Agree/Disagree?) For starters you are the one that went on tv in the first place saying nothing happened to you or anyone else,that alone caused "alot" of others grief when you knew that it had happened to others.That comment made it look as though those that said anything against the family were liars.How does it feel to have done that to us.And by the way how much of a payout did you get again?Apology i wonder who should be giving one. (reply to this comment)

From Aussiegirl Monday, October 17, 2005, 23:00 (Agree/Disagree?) We are talking about sexual abuse and the interview was regarding the children involved in the raids. I was not speaking for ever child on earth!!! How dare you say that "I knew it had happened to others". Children were not being sexually abused! Sure there was all kinds of brainwashing going on, fear put in to us and punishments that I would never put on my own children but that is not what that statement was about. And I might add -- what would have said on TV if you were put in the same situation given that you were meant to make a decent impression. Sure the TF is a crap place to live but I never was sexually abused and the young people I knew weren't either. If they was experiences prior to that I certainly didn't know about them. Sorry, but it's also all about moving on and my point is they should not be trying to additionally hurt the people who have made an effort to become part of the normal world! Sorry but you shouldn't be trying to fight me on this. I never said the ex family are liars! They can speak for themselves but not speak for me! Everyone has a right to an opinion and this is a free world and country. -- I think that's why most of us have left TF!!(reply to this comment)

From Ken Maret Sunday, October 23, 2005, 00:46 (Agree/Disagree?) AussieGirl, I was one of the children who testified during the raids about the sexual abuse that was going on, and your TV appearence totally undermined everything we were saying at the time. You now cry foul because of the effect that the re-airing of this footage has had on your personal life, yet you offer no recognition at all of the damage done to mine and others when the segment first aired, when all we were doing was telling the truth. I don't care if you were born in the group, you weren't 5 years old at the time so don't tell me you didn't know what you were doing. You were very happy to take advantage of the forum that channel 9 provided for you back then, yet you resent them for re-airing it now that you've moved on and the content no longer suits you? Gimme a fucking break! I respect your opinion and I concede the difficult position this situation has placed you in, but I can't help but contrast your objections to the actions of Tracey/Richard/Natalie et al who unselfishly subjected their own lives to total public exposure for the sake of others. Don't get me wrong, I hold absolutely nothing against you for that interview and I'm 100% convinced that you really did believe what you were saying back then. If I had been in your position then I would have said the same. And I'm being totally honest now when I say that I even admired your conviction to stand up for what you believed in at the time to the point where you willingly subjected yourself to what must have been a fairly daunting experience. But I'll tell you one thing, the children you were living alongside in those days were most certainly being sexually abused. The abuse I experienced myself didn't occur in Australia, but I did witness it happening to others during my time in Sydney. I was also given explicit details by other children there of their own experiences which were confirmed to me by the adults involved. I also tried to raise this issue once with leaders some years earlier (believe me, it was the type of mistake you made only once!) You are fully justified in saying that you never saw any abuse yourself, but you are in no position to state that it wasn't happening to any of the children in those raids. I assure you, it was! I also believe that channel 9 had no choice but to re-air that footage of you. They had a situation where numerous ex-members of all age groups were claiming that abuse was occurring. Children presented to the network by the group itself, who had spent their entire childhoods in effective isolation, were insisting that it wasn't. Any tv producer with half a brain would have realized something wasn't quite adding up there. Lo and behold, all these years later they finally find out that the accounts were a complete fabrication and they'd been taken for a ride the whole time. They would have been pissed, no doubt, so you can't blame them for taking the oppurtunity to correct what was obviously a gross error of judgement on their part the first time round. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, because it's not. You are in the very unenviable position of having publicly stood up to both The Family and other ex-members in the past, and I think we all need to show a little tact and acknowledge the uncomfortable position this must place you in. But let's all keep in mind who the real enemy is here. It's not each other, and it's certainly not channel 9. (reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 11:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I think most systemites look unfavorably on people, like your parents, who JOIN cults and raise children in cults. But children raised in the craziness of TF are not defined by their experience. I don't think our society stigmatizes victims as much as you think it does. So, your systemite friends are much more likely to relate to you by what you DO now, and how you act. Not by what happened to you long ago. So, I am hoping you will find that your friends who saw you on TV will be supportive, understanding, maybe even outraged that you went through whatever happened to you in TF. But who you are now is what's most important. And that hasn't changed from before the show aired. (reply to this comment)

From A systemites perspective! Thursday, October 20, 2005, 06:11 (Agree/Disagree?) I wish to support the comment from Big Sister-18/11/05. As someone who was not involved in TF, but who has a close relationship with an ex TF member, whose inner beauty shines for me. I can only try to understand her experiences and accept that our lives have taken different paths. One does not need to be an ex member of TF to have suffered abuse in our lives, and compassion for those who suffer from any form of abuse is part of our common humanity. I can only hope that we all find some peace of mind and happiness in our futures, being open and speaking about our experiences is a neccessary part in moving on. Best wishes to all of you in the future. (reply to this comment)

From wizzzidovoz Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 07:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey there aussiegirl, your indignation would be understandable –if it was justified. Now I don’t wanna ruin your life now or anything, god knows its hard enough to rebuild a life after TF, but I'm about the same age as you and I was in the same home as you in Indonesia when we were kids and I happen to know your not telling the whole truth cuz I was there! Isn't denial a beeeautiful thing! – Not! You might not have been physicaly molessted by an adult per se, I don’t know that, but if you don’t call what happened to us as kids abusive then I don’t know what is. Like I said I don’t wanna ruin your life by getting specific and personal and naming names and instances and stuff, but if you don’t back down on this “I and none of the kids in the Australian raids were ever abused” bullshit then I damn well will! Maybe you honestly believe that. Maybe you ‘honestly believe’ you ‘didn’t know’ anything or of any other kids in the raids that had been. All the kids basicly went into massive denial as a survival mecanism because they didn’t want to be separated from their parents or be out of TF in the ‘devils hands’ and itr seems like some of them have never come out of it. Maybe your early childhood memory was erased by all the brainwashing you got in teen training, and that part of your subconsious jusdt hasn’t come out of the hypnotic trance yet.. maybe you just really need to believe that to maintain your sanity…who knows.. But even if all youd ever done was read Heavens girl (remember the pictures of her ffing and being happily gang raped?)and the kids mops and the kids komix (with grandpa habving sex with little techi?) and watched you parents ‘sharing’ with other parents and watched those striptease videos and memorize all those pat answers out of \Deceivers yet true’ to cover up what our parents really beleved and practiced etc, you don’t call that sexually and pyscologically abusive? You have no idea the damage youve done by being used as a sweet little puppet by Paul Hard-On and cohorts to deny anything ever happened. I can't believe you can still plug that line aftter being out of TF all this time – if you really fully are.. You and a couple of other seeminglly ‘good’, more sheltered and ‘less damaged’ teens in TF in Aust were used as front men on TV to tell the world how wonderful our lives were on the inside and I remember thinking at the time…ha!...if they only knew! What you did was effectively silence any kids who had been (because you were speaking as a representative of all the kids in TF in Aust.) and negate and invalidate the stories of the kids who had already left TF and were seeking justice – as well as help to shut down any investigations on behalf of our welfare! Another girl I knew personally who went on TV denying everything and giving TF a clean bill of health had had sex with heaps of boys and (I was of the belief) even grown men when she was younger – at least thats the impression I’d got from her ‘situation’ in the late 8os. So sorry to have to bring all this to your attention, but if you still believe you were never abused I've got 2 words for you. Get help! (reply to this comment)

From Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 04:48 (Agree/Disagree?) "Children were not being sexually abused!" How on earth can you know that, or make such a statement? I didn't tell my friends about it, like I know a loy of other's who also never said anything. You went on TV for TF to discredit ex-member's who were coming out and speaking of their own abuse. That is TF's blame as you knew no better. but now, can't you see that it's TF's smear campaign that is at fault? (reply to this comment)

From another aussie Monday, October 17, 2005, 23:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Believe me it happened in Australia dont you dare fight me on that.(reply to this comment)

From Eva St John Monday, October 17, 2005, 20:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Aussiegirl, unfortunately I had no control over what the producers of 60 Minutes decided to put in their report. They simply interviewed us, we told the truth of our own experiences, and then we were 'in the dark' from then on as to how they would portray the whole thing. I had no idea they were going to use old footage from years ago. Personally, I felt their coverage was 'hard, heavy and insensitive', and they cut out anything that was 'light, humane, or triumphant' in regards to our lives now, or how Berg's indoctrination created and generated the climate of abuse the children suffered from. I am very sorry this report has created problems for you. In regards to your claims of never being abused, I'm very thankful for that. As an adult who lived with you and your parents in TF for some time however, I have to say that, unless you just plain don't remember, you certainly were exposed to some things you should't have as a child. Lets leave it at that.(reply to this comment)

From Realist Monday, October 17, 2005, 23:33 (Agree/Disagree?) "they cut out anything that was 'light, humane, or triumphant' in regards to our lives now" What the fuck is light humane or triumphant about our lives now? No matter how much we accomplish or how great our new lives are, it doesn't change the fact that we were whipping boys and fuck toys for "God" by some fucked up definition of him. The abuse is permanent because a child can't deal with it, although we are adults now, we aren't being abused now, It's too fucking late. They are demonizing us and fucking laughing at us. No justice has been done, and no fucking media report is going to make a fucking dent in their web of lies. How many of you were in the cult when we watched the NOW show? DId it open your eyes? Did Tom Brokaw come and save you from daily beatings and head games? I personally prayed he would get cancer and die for the "lies" he told the world. (reply to this comment)

From Eva St John Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 21:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Sorry, I may have given the wrong impression in my above comment. I was all for this report being done and am really glad we got the truth out there – (in fact I was the one 60 Minutes approached for a story and I contacted the SG’s who were interviewed, and provided the old video footage and materials as evidence) – and ‘Richard’ is my own son. (As he’s now a musician doing live gigs he just didn’t want to be identified by his real identity). The report was hard-hitting and powerful, I just wished it had been longer and that they’d taken more time to cover more of the facts and go into more depth. When I said I found it ‘hard, heavy and insensitive’, I was thinking in terms of the fact that the interviewer’s style was quite cold, unfeeling and very intrusive to the point that I sat up through the night with two of the SG’s while they got drunk and had an emotional meltdown after the interviews, it brought up so much stuff for them; and in terms of it having had to drag in ‘aussiegirl’ from the ancient past, etc. I agree with you Realist in that for many of you there was very little that was ‘light, humane or triumphant’ about the insane way you were treated in TF as children and no amount of apologizing or ‘explanations’ can compensate for what you suffered. I also agree that the memory of the abuse one experienced as a child is permanent, and that there’s nothing that can be done to change what has happened. But - to quote from the Dr Phil show - (and I agree this is much easier said than done, but from what I’ve seen of my own kids and other SG’s, I believe it is possible to)... “do whatever it takes for you to say, 'I am walking out of my history. I will not live in this another minute.' What I meant by the above comment was that I would have liked to have seen the producers bring out how these SG’s, in spite of their horrible past, are more humane than their parents in that they are not repeating their parents mistakes in their own lives, and are triumphant in that they are not allowing the former abuse to define who they are now. They’re doing their best not to let the past have any power over them or their choices now, in other words. They are much more humane and triumphant in living their own truth. (reply to this comment)

from monger Monday, October 17, 2005 - 19:54 (Agree/Disagree?) The video can be seen on ninemsn: http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?f=39&g=16f472da-8735-42a8-b7a3-91d85c9835c5&p=aunews_au60minutes&t=s29 (reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Monday, October 17, 2005, 21:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Richard, Tracy and Natalie, WELL DONE!!! I am too overwhelmed with emotion right now to express in words my gratitude for you telling your stories. Richard, your statement at the end .... awesome. I almost cried, too. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.(reply to this comment)