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Getting Out : Seeking Justice
What next? | from Albatross - Thursday, August 22, 2002
accessed 2283 times Action against "The Family", and the next step.
The following article is the distillation of several months of thought on the above subject. In the interest of maintaining this at a readable length, I will try to avoid oratory and rather stick to business.
Albeit with varying degrees of interest, anger, and determination, it seems that a large majority of us ex-family young people would like to see something done about the abuses and neglects perpetrated on us is the past, as well as see some basic human rights granted to the children (many of our siblings) remaining in “The Family.” I refer to providing the children with access to education through high school level, as well as a commitment to protect the children from laboring for hours and in conditions deemed detrimental to children by child welfare professionals the world over.
I acknowledge the broad spectrum of opinions we hold as to what can or should be done with regards to “The Family’s” abuses, both past and present.
While I would like to see the Family disappears as any sort of religious entity, I realize that that is an unrealistic goal. It is indeed possible -in theory at least- for "The Family" to completely repudiate their past doctrines that encouraged and promoted illegal activities. It is possible – in theory- for them to work towards justice and restitutions for the victims. It is possible for them to arrive at the point where they are willing to make an open, honest, and full apology for the years of abuse, neglect, unpaid labor, and other indignities we suffered. It is possible for them to help in eliminating the scourge of future child abuses incidents and work on addressing specific cases from the past. It is possible for "The Family" to take actions that will eventually render them just a harmless Christian offshoot, albeit with unconventional beliefs.
That day has not yet arrived.
It remains to be seen how far they must be pushed towards that end.
The paths to justice are many. We have only begun to explore them. The list of possible recourses is only as limited as the resources, energy, and commitment of those of us who seek Justice and change. Class action lawsuits, requests for law enforcement investigations, personal lawsuits against abusers, criminal complaints, judicious use of the media, production of our own stories through documentaries, books, and writings, are all options that continue to be explored.
This site is replete with postings by those with a desire to finally see a move towards holding the Family responsible. There is also much more that does not meet the eye.
It must be assumed that the Family has taken notice of this site and the recent awakening and calls for action amongst their ex-member children.
I do not think it is hyperbole to suggest that if they have taken notice, it is well advised. As it is only a matter of time before they begin to feel the effects of this new movement towards action. It may be incremental at first, but I don’t ever see an end to the attacks until the issue is resolved.
I have spent a few months reading, writing, and asking the opinions of other ex-family young people. As a consequence I have compiled a list of what seem to be major areas of grievance many of us hold with the Family. I will also list what I see as possible courses of action the Family could do to address these.
I acknowledge that this list may appear to be incomplete to some, while to others it may appear to be overly harsh or unrealistic. It is doubtful that there will be a complete meeting of the minds on all the points, however, I offer up this list to stimulate discussion, provoke debate, and to give some clarity to what I (and perhaps others) would like to see as potential outcomes of this push to bring the Family to justice and change.
I’ve narrowed the list down to 3 main points. I begin with the one that I see as being the easiest for the Family to fix.
Education:
Since its early days, the Family has chosen to take responsibility for the education of its children separate from other secular or religious institutions. That in itself is not wrong; many other groups have done this for numerous reason. The problem with the Family model is that in closing off one avenue of education for their children, they neglected to provide a viable alternative.
Family education was sporadic, limited to lower grades, limited to the bible, or non-existent. Despite the Families protestations to the contrary, family education was and remains a disaster and does little to prepare us for a life outside the group. Logic would dictate that even if you wished to have your children indoctrinated with your belief system, you would still provide them with the educational tools to build good strong lives. The Mormons have done it, and while not having specific figures, I do believe they retain far more of their youth than the Family does.
What can the Family do?
For the future, The Family must move towards a unified education program for all its children. While the curriculum must obviously be tailored to meet the special needs of the various countries the Family operates in, the Family must work to guarantee that every child has access to an educational that is at a par with the standards of industrialized nations. This is not a call for the teaching of evolution, nor a call for a secular education. However, every family child should be afforded the opportunity to learn all the necessary subjects that would allow him/her to apply for college at the completion of his/her High school work. This means actually study time, actual tests, and actual certifiable transcripts. Phony vocational certificates will not suffice. Access to information on how to apply to college must be provided. In essence, the Family must set up what amounts to a “department of education.” It must allow outside oversight and verification. It must comply with local, state, and federal laws. These things are not beyond the realm of possibilities. Many religious organizations manage to provide quality educations for their children while at the same time teaching them fundamental doctrines of their faith. The Family could choose to look to these organizations as models for their educational restructuring. The Family has the organizational structure in place to implement these things. It has the tools to leverage those who may be recalcitrant or to slow to act. It is imperative that the family reassesses its three-decade-old policy on education, for the sake of their children’s future.
As for how the Family can make amends to the generation that was denied even a basic education:
There is little that can be done. The ideal would be to force the Family to pay into a tightly controlled college scholarship fund that would be judiciously administered. The scholarships could be awarded on a case-by-case basis. This would encourage many to work towards a college degree, knowing that they will not be left completely on their own to pay for tuition. Realistically: with or without a conclusive victory against the Family, It is very possible that various legal actions will so deplete the family’s treasury, that collecting on an award will be near impossible (assuming to begin with that we could even locate the money) I am not an expert on the finances of the family, I begin from a position that the Family does not have limitless wealth, and what monies it does have are so dispersed and hidden as to make their recovery unlikely. If I am in error in this assumption, I welcome clarification.
Bottom line, we can work to change the future for the children in the family, but any satisfaction beyond receiving a heartfelt apology, and acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the past, as well as perhaps guaranties for the future of Family children, is highly improbable.
Child Labor / Physical and Mental Abuse:
The rights of children to live their lives free of torture, hard labor, and mental abuse are rights that have thankfully seen much more advocacy in the recent decades. As a religion that professes to uphold the principle of Christian charity, “The Family” had been woefully hypocritical in this area. The stories of physical and mental abuse and torture in “The Family” are many; I will not belabor them here.
However, “The Family” must come up with guarantees that it’s children will not be subjected to the indignities of working to support their homes through whatever methods “The Family” currently employs to raise funds. There must be proscribed limits to the amount of time children can be compelled to clean the house, take care of the younger children, and “witness.” It is simply not fair for a generation of adults to decide that god does not want them to work at secular jobs, while at the same time compelling their children to be an active part of supporting their family unit while the parents continue to mass produce more children. These children should not have to bare the burden of caring for the fruits of their parent’s aversion to birth control and honest work, especially at the expense of their education and childhood.
What can be done?
Much as with the case of education, I believe the primary and most constructive result of our efforts could be to force the Family to guarantee that Family children will be free from the physical and mental abuse, as well as from excessive labor. If “The Family” has the will and the capacity to dictate the policies for the sexual and other behaviors of its young people, it certainty has the wherewithal to see to it that its children are protected from harm, and allowed even the semblance of a normal childhood. “The Family” must find a way to let its children know that they have recourses if anyone in their home abuses, overworks, or punishes them with abusive harshness
Regarding the past:
I am not averse to suing “The Family” for everything they’ve got civilly. If criminal cases can be brought, they must. There should be no refuge for the abusers and tortures of children. It would behoove Zerby and her team to spend less time sharing the details of her love and sex life, and perhaps concentrate on really improving the lives of the little ones who suffer as a consequence of her dictates. It could be argued that god may expect them to take all that time they spend in “prayer and prophecy, and instead get down to the real business of improving the well being of their young people.
Child Sexual Abuse:
Fact: It occurred with extreme regularity.
Fact: It occurred as a result of the loosening of “The Family’s” sexual mores, as well as due to the direct endorsement and example of Berg, Zerby, and WS.
Fact: Many of the most egregious abusers remain in “The Family”, some in positions of leadership.
Fact: “The Family” leadership has yet to offer a complete and honest apology for their direct hand in the genesis of a pedophiliac society.
Fact: “The Family” continues to dodge the issue of leadership involvement.
Fact: “Family” writing bears out the truth of what the doctrines were and what the “Family” member's reactions to them were.
“The Family” has in recent years gone to great lengths to make clear that they repudiate child sexual abuse. I believe that whatever their motive for doing it, they do make a sincere effort to make sure it does not happen. I believe however that given the criminality of their actions in years past, they should not be allowed to simply police themselves on this one.
What can be done?
Firstly, the “Family” leadership must make an open and heartfelt apology to all those of their children who were raped, molested and abused. It must take responsibility for the abuses. It must not insult the victims by pretending that the abuses were few, scattered and simply the work of a few renegade members.
It must work with representative of the victims to identify the perpetrators of the abuse who still remain a part of the group. It must show that it is taking the matter seriously by immediately excommunication those found to have engaged in these abuses. One possible model for working through these issues would be to establish a commission of sorts. This commission would be set up to investigate and to try to verify claims of abuse against members still in the group. The findings of the commission would be private and not used for possible future prosecutions, but rather as a way to guarantee that “The Family” has indeed rooted out those who behaved criminally against children. This commission could consist of a balanced cross-section of current “Family” members, ex family youth representatives, and a child welfare/ abuse professional. It may also be necessary to have a lawyer involved in the proceedings. I think a seven-person panel may cover all the bases in terms of equitable representation.
The lawsuits, investigations, and criminal complaints will come regardless. However “The Family” may begin to show that it is working with extreme dispatch to repudiate, and distance itself from the abusive doctrines and actions of the past. While my personal feeling is that those responsible for direct acts of child sexual abuse deserve to be jailed, I see the difficulty that “The Family” may face given that some of it’s top leaders fall in to that unhappy category. Quite frankly, I have no answer to that dilemma. Perhaps one should consider the potential repercussions, before one decides to rape children.
Between the camp that calls for complete termination of “The Family” as an entity, and those who just seek to make some modifications to improve the lives of the children still in, I believe we can find some common ground with realistic and attainable goals.
So, I understand that if you survived the length of this posting you may have comments, questions, critiques, suggestions, and arguments against or for it.
If you do not feel comfortable posting on the website, please feel free to email me at familyabuserlist@aol.commailto:familyabuserlist@aol.com">familyabuserlist@aol.com/> I appreciate all the input I get, as I often do not have the complete picture.
Daniel
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Anna
Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 22:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm pretty sure this is the first time I ever post anything on this site, I read it frequently but up till now this is the first topic that realy got my full atention as it's something new.
I'm not reffering to the child abuse cases, as I for a fact now ALL about that but, it's the first time I'm convinced we're gonna do something about it this time. Are we?
I'm not the kind of person who can sit around and just talk about how bad things were and how we WANT to get justice, I'm ready to finaly build up a good strong case against them and put all my efforts in to it. Is this going to happen? How can we contribute to it?
(reply to this comment)
|  From Albatross
Friday, February 27, 2004, 01:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
Anna: We are working very hard on this. I spent @ 3 hours on the phone today on this. Of course we can't publish most of what's going on, but soon we will need affidavits from victims and perhaps even people who will agree to go on news magazine type shows. The fight is ongoing, and I, who have been working on this for more than two years, am more encouraged than ever at the progress. We will not let the heat off. The story of what we went through is horrible, compelling and revolting. It is beginning to turn heads. There are those who post on this site and chide us for our "hot air." Their questioning is understandable, given that there is not much they can see besides the talk, but the truth remains, that behind it, there is a very commited group of people working for justice. It will not all come at once. The form that it will take is hard to predict, but I have no doubt that the effects of our efforts will be felt very stongly by TF. The snowball is already rolling down the hill, and Tf leaders are in the way. If you want to help, please check this site from time to time. We will announce it when there are specific. Also, if you have specific information regarding FCF or Family leadership, or if you were abused and would like to write up an affidavit describing what happened and by whom, you can email me and we can use what you have.
Daniel(reply to this comment) |
| | from Charly
Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 17:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was looking at some different information pages on the net and i came across a certain site religioustolerance.org they have an article on the family and it says that "child protective services" did tests on 700 children in the family in different countries and didn't find anything wrong there is also a sociologist and psychologist by the names of Gary Shepherd & Lawrence Lilliston who did a survey of 32 kids in two different homes in california and could not find any psychological or phisical signs of abuse could someone please explain this to me as i like all of you have traveled the world over visiting at least 50 homes world wide and since being out of the family for three years now every single female both while i was in and now that i'm out that i have talked to has been sexually and emotionally abused so who were these people talking to what type of tests could they have done which made them overlook the fact that it did and probably still does exist
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | From cm
Sunday, September 22, 2002, 23:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Anyone who has been on a COG "media team", can tell you how staged those tests were. I was part of a couple "meet the academics" fests in DC. I met with Gordon Melton, Gary Shepherd and Lawrence Liston-we were so prepared and coached for every question that they had. It is not difficult to be nice and happy for a day or two, tell the hippies that you were never beaten and or sexually abused. Sociologists are all whacked anyway. (reply to this comment) |
| | from aboveboard
Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
Albatross, nice article! I want to comment on something you said: "[The Family] must work with representative of the victims to identify the perpetrators of the abuse who still remain a part of the group. It must show that it is taking the matter seriously by immediately excommunication those found to have engaged in these abuses." The main problem with this is that Zerby herself is guilty of sexual abuse. Maybe she didn't drop a child's pants and fuck'm but she WAS involved in situations where it happened and did nothing to stop it. The Family needs to excommunicate Zerby if they are going to excommunicate other leaders for perversions she is criminally guilty of.
(reply to this comment)
| From Albatross
Wednesday, September 11, 2002, 11:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree about Zerby. It is somewhat of a dilema. That is why I included the following prg. in my article. It theory it is a big problem with any future negotiation and quite frankly if anything would turn out to be a deal breaker, it would be that. I am still not sure what would be the answer to this very important issue. her is the paragraph.
"While my personal feeling is that those responsible for direct acts of child sexual abuse deserve to be jailed, I see the difficulty that “The Family” may face given that some of it’s top leaders fall in to that unhappy category. Quite frankly, I have no answer to that dilemma. Perhaps one should consider the potential repercussions, before one decides to rape children."
Daniel
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| | From Nan
Thursday, September 12, 2002, 10:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Daniel, I realize this one is all yours and you might still be angry about me not letting you have a piece of the action yesterday, but you've got a lunatic on your hands. Please, let me in on this. It's not everyday one of these escapes from the bowels of the Family fanatic ship. This one makes Joe look like a damn world renowned scholar in international affairs. (No offense, Joe, you know I still luv ya.)
I've got to run, but I'm excited to come back to address this nut case. Wow! I love this site! It attracts the most disturbed people on earth, first 7* and now Andrew! It's raining damn stupid people!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Regi
Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 19:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
I am with you on this, Albatross. However, I doubt the cult will ever change or ammend for the past. I have not read the cult's publications for several years, but from what I heard there was a recent "Conviction or Compromise" series in which they urged members to keep their children out of school, even Christian schools. I think that alowing their children to receive an adequate eduation outside the group is the only viable alternative, because within the cult it is hightly unlikely that the expertise exists to teach certain subjects, especially math and science.
The cult leaders and members responsible for abuse should be held accountable before the law. But sadly I am not optimistic that this will ever happen. When the group was raided in France, Argentina, Australia etc. they were always able to weasle their way out, largely in part by lying or recanting (or prentending to). Those cases, unfortunately may be precendents in future legal action against the family. Further, the abuse occured in many different countries where it may be difficult to prosecute such cases, and there is no immediate physical proof except for the testimony of witnesses and the victims tehmselves.
Perhaps it would be easier to nail them for tax evasion. I guess that would only work if the tithe money we sent to WS was received in the US...and we would need proof. I do not know the law, but I do know that people have served significant jail time for it.
I want to see justice, but unfortunately with an organization as secretive and widespread globally as teh F, I think it would be an incredible challenge, though not impossible...I hope.
Before I decided to leave the cult, I wanted to see reform in the group. I thought that if they changed I would stick it out. But after many conversations that my friends and I had with the leadership, we became convinced that they would never change. For instance, they had no inclination or intention to comply with our request for financial disclose to the donors (thithers)...not complete discloser but something more concrete about how our money was spent. This was one of many things we requested they change.
While not very optimistic, I do hope for justice and change.
(reply to this comment)
| from Anthony
Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 18:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Perhaps the only true indication that the current COG leadership mean business in their anti-child abuse rhetoric, and have done a volte-face, would be to specifically and publicly denounce all of Berg’s writings and ACTIONS that approved of and endorsed pedophilia and other forms of child abuse. Zerby needs to do this, in her own words and on camera for the entire world to see. A press release will also be satisfactory, but I’m afraid, not as effective.
In 1995 delegates to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCC) convention- the church's highest decision-making body – were asked to adopt a resolution calling for in the repudiation of the anti-Semitism in Luther's writings. The Church did so by denouncing Luther's "anti-Judaic diatribes" and Lutheran churches in the United States and elsewhere had given out similar formal declarations.
My point is, if the Lutherans can do it, so can the COG. Of course this would bring into question the apotheosis of David Berg; however, that would be inconsequential to the cause of justice.
What I propose next may be a bit more difficult or near impossible to accomplish, but I’ll say it anyway. Once we have a solid case against anyone who has been guilty of this type of crime and the case is brought to court, we need to insist that they be required to register as sex offenders in every place they wish to reside. A judge may demand this without our insistence, but they difficult part is coming up with a solid case, but it is not impossible. By a solid case I mean, legal names, dates, places and witnesses. This would avoid or greatly reduce the “her-word-against-his” types of scenarios. However, I am not an expert in legal proceedings, so I’ll leave that to those who are.
Regards,
Anthony
(reply to this comment)
| from MagicGreenPants
Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 14:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
The miracle of Tommy, our very own Golden Butterfly
A touching true story of how to win despite adversity
In 1989, in a hospital very near the Japan HCS Tommy was born. The Doctors were very concerned as Tommy had no head and so
the entire HCS gathered round for desperate prayer, and a round the clock vigil was initiated while Doctors desperately
fought to graft Tommy a head from flesh taken from his abodomin. Gabe and J were allowed to visit Tommy where they daily
anointed his would be head with oil. You can imagine the relief turn to excitement as Tommy's head started to form. Doctors
pronounced Tommy austistic, but of course they overlooked Tommy's true potential. Tommy was so beautiful.
Tommy came home from Hospital and within 6 weeks joined the OC group as his growth rate was so amazingly fast.
One tragic day however when Tommy was witnessing he exploded and died.
Our golden butterfly had flown.
(reply to this comment)
| From EyesWideShut
Monday, August 26, 2002, 19:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
No matter how we feel about the Family, to take the sincere song of a grieving father and make some stupid story out of it is over the top! How would you feel if your son died and you wrote a song for him and it got warped like this by some bastard who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground? Who do you think you are? What if he's reading this? Let's just hope he knows that people like you don't count.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from jpmagero
Friday, August 23, 2002 - 11:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
Daniel,
I applaud you on your level head when you go into the facts that are known to be true, yet without too much passion to make your article sound like a "dis-gruntled apostate".
As much as I disagree with many of the Family's tactics, theories, beliefs etc., I believe that the biggest problem of all the ones you mentioned is the education. Not because the others are non-issues, but because they are not an immediate danger to children in the family today. Even the labor issues will be ressolved by giving the children an education, because the time spent giving them an adequate education is time not spent supporting grown-ups dependant on their off-spring for survival.
Abuse suffered in the past must be dealt with according to the law and if the family does not turn the abusers over to the law, they should at least dis-associate themselves completely from these elements. This is something I do not believe they will ever do. I cannot say very much on this subject since I was never subjected (or a witness) to sexual abuse, or severe physical abuse in my life in the group. Others have and I cannot speak for them.
But the educated mind thinks for itself and makes logical conclusions so if the children are given the oportunity to acquire the knowledge needed to at least enter college, then I believe any decision they make to leave (or stay) would be a fully informed one. I am all for choice, so long as that decision is made with full disclosure of all the facts. Some may choose to stay regardless of the past, since the present may be acceptable to them. That is their choice. But they cannot force that choice on their children.
(reply to this comment)
| From Albatross
Tuesday, August 27, 2002, 15:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks for your input JP.
Over the last few days I have read some of "The Family's" statements/writings for the media and academics on the subject of ex-members.
"The Family" now refers to its ex-members as "apostates." In a theological context, that is a loaded word, fraught with negative suggestions. The dictionary defines “apostate” as someone who has left his/her religion, culture or beliefs. Judging by that definition, I am an apostate, as is everyone who has ever left the family. (I dare say I’ve met some apostates who remain in the Family, but in name only) As for the oft’ bandied about word “disgruntled,” you could say that “disgruntled” only begins to describe my feelings towards "The family". And if it does, so what? I think the Family leadership has shed enough proverbial “blood of the innocent” to keep many disgruntled for a long time. do I think our cause, or any cause, is best served by histrionics? No. So I try to avoid them.
Sure, there is a “type,” a “disgruntled ex-member/apostate” who walks around under a cloud of hatred and bitterness never striving to advance his/her place in life, but rather prefers to blame all past, present and future failings on the group. But quite frankly, I’ve known very few of those. Most ex-family young people I know are living their lives, trying hard to advance, trying to “figure it all out”, even those who are working hard for justice.
I shutter to think that I could subconsciously adjust my actions, my desire for justice, and my calls for answers, just because I don’t wish to be labeled “a disgruntled apostate,” a label that the Family throws around with far to much enthusiasm. I am not keen on allowing "The Family" to dictate the tone of my response to the reprehensible abuses they spent years committing, and subsequent years covering up.
So yes, I am a “disgruntled ex-member” with good reason. I am that and a whole lot more, as a person, as a man, as a friend, as a thinker, as a bon vivant; all those things the Family never cared about. I submit that in simply labeling us “disgruntled apostates,” they risk seeing only a very small part of a very complex group of people, and consequently they risk underestimating our passion, our drive, our resolve, and our resourcefulness.
So here’s to passion, logic, justice seeking, indignation, relaxation, pleasure, and the smarts to know when each of those serves our purpose, our loved ones and our futures.
Daniel
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| | From Samuel
Thursday, September 05, 2002, 08:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Excellent! You´ve got life to you.
I´ve been trying to figure out how to sue the Family in Germany, which is where I live, the main problems being that there is no money to be earned which makes it difficult to find a lawyer, and many offences i.e. physical abuse which I could testify to happend so long ago that I cannot sue for them even if I did have a lawyer.
In the case of my siblings, my parents after much persuasion, agreed to pay for a state-recognised correspondance course, so that when my sisters have completed it they will be able to attend a regular school. I think the education issue is on the top of the list of things to accomplish. (reply to this comment) |
| | From JoeH
Friday, August 23, 2002, 11:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
In most areas of the world, I believe the Family would be subject to investigation by truancy officials, who, when discovering the Family's "alternative" educational practices, would no doubt require them to enter public school or pass standardized tests to verify that they are being appropriately schooled.
If this happens enough in enough countries, it could pester Zerb and Kelly enough to initiate some real changes. Can we become whistle-blowers? If you know of a home in your area, will you contact the local school board and ask them to investigate? This is not persecution, it is merely light prodding to comply with basic societal principles. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Jim
Monday, September 09, 2002, 17:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have read a lot on what different people have been saying about the FAM., and can understand where some are coming from. No doubt, not everything in the FAM. is a bed of roses. One thing I am very concerned about is the way in which people groupe everyone in the FAM. as the bad guys. Some say. lets take FAM members to court. Let's get local government to visit local homes etc. Let's shut them down. That may be your interest, but what about the normal everyday FAM member who does not write the rules, who has a true love for Jesus and helping others, and quite simply enjoys his little life in a home off on some field of his choosing? Should we just groupe them altogether, take away their children, take away their lives, just because we had problems with some person in the past? To say the FAM did this to me and that is to broad. That's like saying every American is a butcher because our Gov. goes into places and bombs the hell out of them. There are certain people who may have screwed your life up, but not every person in the FAM did that to you, at least not in my life. The sad thing is that not all the bad guys are in the FAM these days. Some are out and about.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Monday, September 09, 2002, 19:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jim,
Why are they out and about? If the FAM had turned pedophiles over to authorities, they would not be out and about, in the group or out.
I think all that most of us are asking for is that people who abused children face their crimes and be held accountable for them. Every devotee has the right to their faith, but every person is also accountable for their actions no matter what their faith. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Albatross
Friday, August 23, 2002, 11:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
So Joe....in that vein....I might post an article on this: but it would be interesting to compile a list of the addresses or at least the general locations of Family homes. I am sure many of us know where homes are. It would be interesting to have that list available should anyone be interested in contacting autorities and encouraging them to check out the educational deficit many family children live with. I am speaking specificaly about the educational problem. It would be foolish to go to the authorities yelling "Child abuse" with no proof on a specific home to offer. What do you think?
Daniel(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Albatross
Monday, September 02, 2002, 10:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
Actually, you've got it wrong. I AM interested in attacking "The Family."
The future welfare of "Family" children is one of many issues. It is however not the only one. "The Family" has to answer for the abuses of the past. It must not be allowed to get away with it's sordid history.
Yes, my friend...since you obviously have not read anything else I have posted on this site, read this: I want to take "The Family" to task for its past. I ALSO want to obtain promises for the future. I was suggesting some areas in which "The Family" can make a sincere effort to change. Here is what I sincerly want: to see the abusers in jail, to see "The Family" admit and apologize, to see "The Family" pay for its past crimes. Any questions?
Daniel(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From JoeH
Friday, August 23, 2002, 11:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
Agreed. Yelling "child-abuse" could potentially harm innocent children, no one wants another Argentina. But in addition to encouraging education, it would provide another means of outside review, helping to ensure that children are not out postering all hours of the day, raking leaves, sorting rocks, and cleaning toilets, or living in abject poverty. And let's face it, system influences are great!(reply to this comment) |
| | From faeriraven
Friday, August 23, 2002, 14:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Not only could it cause another 'Argentina' but it could also backfire on us as being a false call for help and when we are really serious and want action taken against other things, we'll have a problem convincing officials that this time we're right...and I doubt they'd be ready and willing to jump to our request for help the second time around. Does this make any sense?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From jpmagero
Friday, August 23, 2002, 11:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would if I knew that the local public schools we any better. In the US, Europe, Australia etc, I definately would, but in Brazil (where my family is) the schools are among the worst in the world.
That doesn't mean that one can't provide an education, it simply means that they would have to pay more for a private/foreign school.
That might turn out to be a good thing, forcing parents to get a job and support their kids education.
On another point, my Mom here is doing a lot in this area, she started a school for all the 9-14 yr olds in the area that can participate. While not perfect, it is a great substitute for the extremely low levels of education kids that age are getting in the group nowadays.(reply to this comment) |
| | from C
Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 22:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
Daniel, you are a tribute to us all. Your thoughts remind me of the quote “the law is reason free of passion.” You have a unique ability to steer clear of the passion and emotion the subject of abuse brings out in us all and see the real issues.
I agree. I would like nothing more than see the COG change of their own accord. If it be possible, let them renounce their beliefs in child molestation as being acceptable. Let them educate their children, our siblings. Let them acknowledge what they did to us all as children, what they took from us, how they hurt us. Let them sincerely apologize. Let it be real. Let it be true. And, I, for one, will be one of the first to respect their existence as an alternative religious movement. I may even contribute financially to the support of my young siblings still in the COG, if I was assured that they would never experience what we did, assured that they would never be raped or beaten or humiliated and discarded.
Do you hear us Zerby and Kelly and those in leadership positions? We are not all litigation mad victims. Yet, we will not be hood-winked, either. Admitting, once and for all, that there was a mass conspiracy to exploit children sexually, physically and through child labor and it was brought about in the name of God, and confessing that it was wrong and such acts will never occur again or if they do so, they will be swiftly addressed, is a preferable alternative to litigation to those of us who seek justice. To borrow the words of G.W. Bush, “You can be brought to justice or justice can be brought to you.”
And as Daniel stated, rather than making videos and publications on Zerby’s sex life and screaming religious persecution, you could spend that time issuing, for the first time ever, an open letter of apology for the crimes committed to hundreds of children. Atonement and apology could avoid litigation.
(reply to this comment)
| From afflick
Friday, August 23, 2002, 10:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
An ex-member friend of mine recently returned from a trip to visit Homes in a developing nation. He witnessed a phenominon that, if it pertains to The Family worldwide, may have very interesting reprecussions:
There is an absence of young members.
Indeed, besides the standard Middle-Agers with their underage children, the only SGAs my friend saw were a few married couples, with kids.
Think back to a typical day when you were in the group. Who made the meals, minded the children, headed the fundraising, cleaned the house? If you were in any many areas, the answer most likely is that you did.
During the so-called "Persecution" of 93-94, the young members were TFs' face to the world. They were chosen to be media spokespersons, witnesses and protesters. It was even published in a GN during that time that Zerby considered us, their own 'creation', to be their biggest asset.
Flash forward a couple of years and it seems the situation is very different. If what my friend witnessed is true worldwide, there are a lot less disposable young members available today in their fellowship. In addition, those who have left are not walking away overjoyed, gleefully thankful that they were one of the Chosen, happily utilizing all their 'marvelous training', as previously assumed by leadership. Shockingly, they are demanding retrobution for what they have suffered, remembering crimes they were told never happened.
Add the two factors together: the lack in productivity by the lessening work force and the increasingly raised voices of the dissidents, and the conclusion in my mind is clear--we are not a force to be ignored.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From C
Friday, August 23, 2002, 11:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
This news is good news. To know that so many have left and are no longer being exploited and abused is overwhelming and wonderful. Yet, what of those little ones still remaining? What of their educations? What of their innocense, their integrity and personal autonomy?
And what of the hundreds of ex-SGAs who struggle everyday to rebuild their lives from nothing, to support their children and cope with the scars of their childhood? What of the years of labor, abuse and exploitation they experienced? They have nothing to show for years of their life which was taken from them, nothing to give to their children.
In a perfect world, Zerby, Kelly and their cohorts would be made to work to pay retribution to these ex-SGAs, and such retribution payments would be placed in trust for the children of ex-SGAs to secure their future. The children of ex-SGAs are also victims because the fruit of their parents’ labor was stolen. This labor would have provided for educations for their parents which would have lead to careers and financial support and security for their children.
Zerby and Kelly, quit your babbling about your sex life and sexually transmitted diseases and consider the ramifications of your actions over the past three decades. Consider that the number of individuals seeking justice grows every year. Consider a long term answer to the problem, rather than running and hiding in yet another foreign country.(reply to this comment) |
| | From JoeH
Friday, August 23, 2002, 12:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
lol, that would be a sight! Zerb and Kelly flipping burgers with the ungodly to pay us back for all the years they stole. I mean what else are they going to do, go door-to-door and ask people if they happen to need a proffesional "holy spirit wine-taster"?
Or maybe forcing them to sell their organs would be more just.(reply to this comment) |
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