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from sarafina Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 20:13 (Agree/Disagree?) For those of you interested the media won their motion (there was a hearing yesterday) for access. We don't have the order yet but their memorandum is at http://media.xfamily.org/docs/legal/usa/staughton/D489049-2006-11-03-media-memo-opposing-motion-to-close-proceedings.pdf Will update this as soon. The truth will be told. (reply to this comment)

from Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 08:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Why are we getting involved??? Aside from the fact that this has something to do with the cult....it's a custody battle...isn't it better that the parents get a chance to deal with this on their own...? It's about a childs life...about the passion of the parents involved...the fear and dread of loosing ones child etc. I personally don't think that we should have anything to do with it. (reply to this comment)

From charity Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 10:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Because as we said 100 times, its not between the parents but between the family and Paul. Every time he calls to talk to his kid, the family answers the fone and is constantly making up stories and lies and causing trouble to Paul. It is what it is, watch big love.... you will see the resemblence(reply to this comment)

From sarafina Saturday, November 11, 2006, 08:48 (Agree/Disagree?) I think I already answered most of these questions here in the first article. http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=3836 "First I want to address a specific comment that was made which said: “If you can say "don't let them take this child from his father", by the same token you should be concerned about the mother. This is her loved child as well. Do you have kids, especially have YOU given birth? This is complicated & not everything is black & white. Either way, it will be devastating for the CHILD to loose one of his parents.” I absolutely agree with you! I want you to know the father did not ultimately want to take this child away from his mother. The father has never spoken bad or attacked the mother in this court case. He already had a prior arrangement with the mother, which they had agreed upon together and that was to share custody of this child. Part of the agreed upon arrangement was that when the child was five years old he would be allowed to attend a public school. During the finalizing of their divorce without providing any prior knowledge to it, the mother filed for full custody, alimony and child support and also noted that she did not intend to send her son public school but rather wished to home school him. She also stated she was part of a missionary group that travels around the world and was interested in moving to Mexico. Up until that point both parents had agreed that it was important that they both remain in the child's life. It was the mother who took the first step in trying to strip the father of all parental rights. The father didn't understand why she would do this and after speaking with me about it, I suggested that he should go directly to the home’s leadership. I recommended he speak to them personally about this matter to try to work it out without getting the court involved. They never returned any of his phone calls. At one point before this had gone to court he had spoken to leadership in that home about the fact that his ex-wife was having sex with her new boyfriend in the same room his child was sleeping. He asked the leadership to please move his son to his own room or not allow this other man to sleep with his son's mother while his son was sharing the same room. Later on he came across letters to his wife from leadership in which they directed her on how to handle the divorce and suggested that she cut off all communication with her ex-husband and encouraged her to file for full custody. When reading these emails he came to understand that his wife was more or less following leadership suggestions rather than thinking for herself. In short, the leadership was meddling in their affairs and not allowing them to work things out between themselves. The father realized that if she was not strong enough to make her own decisions now regarding how their son would be raised, that this is how it would be for the rest of the time his son remained in the family, and as such his ex-wife would not be the one raising his son but the group would be. Most importantly the “group” has admitted to prior abuse in the family, they have stated they take a strong stance against abuse but since their definition of abuse differs from that of regular society and the law they have never taken action against those who perpetrated the abuse esp. since most of those individuals were and are still in leadership positions. Which mean the child has a greater chance of living with abusers then if he lived with his father " (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, November 16, 2006, 09:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Ok I did not know that the mother tried to strip the father of parental rights...that's not fair. I am totally understanding of the father fighting back...No parent should have to suffer the fate of loosing ones right to their child (unless there's abuse and such). It sickens me that TF got involved like that...it just goes to show how much or how little TF respects "family." I just hope that things don't grow too big due to the cult members and ex members all getting involved...The child doesn't need to suffer more...is all I'm saying. I hope then that whatever stories etc people are sending will only serve to bring about the best results for that of the child.. (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, November 16, 2006, 09:54 (Agree/Disagree?) I send my regards to the father...It must be a terrible thing to feel helpless not being able to be there to care for and protect his child...Also TF invironment can be very controlling...not leaving a lot of room for debate and open discussion etc...it must make him pretty mad (reply to this comment)

From Saturday, November 11, 2006, 08:34 (Agree/Disagree?) If we get our noses into all this...we may run the risk of further harming the sensitive and already dramatic proceedings. The court knows about TF, I'm sure...In my opinion we should stay out of it.. I'm not fond of TF....AT ALL!!! But at the end of the day, she is the mother. We could talk about our childhoods in TF, but her particullar situation/childs immediate invironment may be just fine. In that case she shouldn't have to lose her child to the father...but our , for the most part, horrendous stories might cause major problems in this childs life and future....why should we want to feel remotely responsible for that?(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, November 16, 2006, 00:11 (Agree/Disagree?) You say "her particullar situation/childs immediate invironment may be just fine." My experience in the Family is that people moved around so much that you can't count on a better situation lasting (unless, say, a Lord Justice Ward ordered that you be provided with certain beneficial things). What I would not like to feel remotely responsible for is another kid suffering the fate I did, of not having a parent on the outside with any say to balance out what my Family Member did in following the leaders (remote, such as Berg, and immediate). I am curious about your statement that "but our , for the most part, horrendous stories might cause major problems in this childs life and future....why should we want to feel remotely responsible for that?" I am not sure what "major problems in this childs life and future" you have in mind that would come about due to our telling our stories truthfully, horrendous or not. Care to elaborate? (reply to this comment)

From Thursday, November 16, 2006, 09:35 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't really know that much about this case, so. Here's the deal...I myself am somewhat going through a custody battle ....I am a mother. I would hate both parties ( cult or none cult) getting involved in my life and that of my childs...Flooding the case with stories, anonymous or not. At the end of the day this is about two parents and a child...., first and formost. To answer your question....There will naturally be problems caused in the childs life due to a custody battle...or the childs parents each pulling an arm....The child becomes torn apart...having to choose who to love etc is how the child feels. It is in itself a confusing time for all directly involved...but the child is really the one who has to pay the price. I just hope all these stories don't cause more stress and prolong the battle so to speak.... I have a shit load of stories that I could tell that judge...Horrendous ones of my time in TF...Abuse is an understatement in my view. But what does that have to do with this particullar child? Is he experiencing that abuse? Is his mother neglectful...beating him, putting him on silence restriction at four and so on.. That was just my point. The child should certainly however have access to his father....and vice versa...why can't they just share custody? These things puzzel me though...if I was her, I would see that my involvement in this sect, was causing major problems...why doesn't she just leave...? Why is religion and this odd way of life more important than not seeing her child go through all this shit...???(reply to this comment)

From Friday, November 17, 2006, 19:58 (Agree/Disagree?) "But what does that have to do with this particullar child?" It means the universe in which he lives, which did all that to us and is unrepentant, attacking us instead. Unless you just want to look at a snapshot in time where things might look OK (in a group that is a pro at staging). IMO, taking into account the reality of that group, that would be a recklessly dangerous way to evaluate things. This "odd way of life" has been more important to a shockingly large number of people than anything, including the dignity health and safety of their children.(reply to this comment)

From loch Tuesday, November 14, 2006, 12:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Because the family is flooding the judge with letters from deluded family members! The court NEEDS to hear both sides.(reply to this comment)

From Oddman Saturday, November 11, 2006, 23:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Utter nonsense. Nobody is asking an anonymous poster to be responsible for the future of this child. Nobody is asking you to make the decision. The court will take care of that. The father is only asking that those who do not feel adverse to doing so, submit their testimony in writ. Whether the court is deciding who blew up the WTC, who shot Kennedy, whether Bush was actually elected, or which parent should have the custody of this child, the most important thing is that all available evidence is brought to the Judges attention. Who would know better about the effects of growing up in TF, than the second generation? The second generation who have chosen to remain, have made their views and reasons clear. Isn't it fair that the father ask those who chose to leave TF submit their testimony also? "You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result" Ghandi “To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.” Elbert Hubbard(reply to this comment)

From AnnaH Saturday, November 11, 2006, 10:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Are you kidding me? "Stories" might cause problems in this child's life? I'd rather risk the stories of our true experiences screwing up this child, then the cult itself. (reply to this comment)

From charity Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 10:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Some of us DO care about the childs life... It's because some of us are willing to fight for something!.... Whether it be our kid, our friends kid, or just because we are VERY aquainted with the FAMILY of LOVe and what lies they live under and what detriment it causes to any child--- We want to help him... just as we would an orphan or any child going into a bad situation. The child is only 5 years old and young enough to start fresh with school, regular life-style and friends. Why do you even go on the movingon site if you are so complacent and don't seem to mind either way if the family wins? People like you should rejoin!(reply to this comment)

from LUCE Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 01:50 (Agree/Disagree?) In a few days go to SEEKING JUSTICE and read:"J'accuse:open letter to Zerby & Kelly".then,if you want, contact me.GBY (reply to this comment)

from LUCE Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 01:50 (Agree/Disagree?) In a few days go to SEEKING JUSTICE and read:"J'accuse:open letter to Zerby & Kelly".then,if you want, contact me.GBY (reply to this comment)

from conan Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 03:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Sarafina, I'm sure you're extremly busy with everything going on, both with this case and your personal life, but please do keep us informed via this site if you can. Good luck! (reply to this comment)