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from an old friend of yours Friday, September 01, 2006 - 01:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Just saw this article. Ben, how are you? How is your sister Kannika? Her and I were in the victors together...( Name was Joani...remember?) It would be great to catch up...won't post my email here, but if I'm lucky, you'll see this posting. Cephas had real issues...He came off as a controling abusive person, and was...but I remember he had such a profound look of insecurity in his eyes...a once beaten and broken child probably... Don't like the man at all, however, I think the heaI would love to sit down and have a chat with him...It's nice to be able to stand up for yourself. Just so messed up the way we were treated in Thailand. It just wasn't human. Your sister and I went through quite a bit together...they really "gave" it to her...I'm sure she doesn't need to be reminded. I wish I would have protected her..taken some of the beatings, well I had my own to deal with...but I just wish I would have stood up to our abusers back then...you know, movie style! We all deserved to be loved, cherished and built up, not torn down, humiliated and beaten. Well, I would love to catch up sometime. I hope your doing well. I'm studying...working towards my masters degree. It's been great getting an education on so many levels..take care Ben. (reply to this comment)

From Friday, September 01, 2006, 01:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Sorry messed up a line....I meant to say: I don't like the man, but I think that somewhere, the heart was ok..I could see that somewhere under all that, there was a kind person. Most of these people were (are) in major need of therapy...I mean, they joined a crazy cult in the first place..that alone, speaks for itself.(reply to this comment)

from ktc Monday, December 19, 2005 - 16:38 (Agree/Disagree?) How true. Here's what a typical apology from them would be. "We're so sorry if you feel you have been hurt." What do you want to bet that they already have their PR machine revved up here, and are already contacting John and Joanna, inviting them to their Christmas fellowship, asking how they are, telling them how much they love them, etc. etc....I know...it happens, and has happened just very recently in Bkk to someone who is out of TF, but had been told by an old friend that they were being slandered. The very next day, these people who had, yes, been slandered, were receiving phone calls from current members, who by the way hadn't given them the time of day for months and years, and all of a sudden, there's a flurry of calls, letting them know that, "No one is saying anything about you, we LOVE you sweetie, can you come for fellowship????" kind of thing. TF needs to be called on this type of thing. They freely slander ex members, and I mean ugly things that in some cases are so completely untrue, they could be sued if they could catch them red handed on it. This is a bit of a sideline on the Cephas issue, but yes, I agree with you Fish, that, although these are excellent questions, TF is very slippery, and are masters at finding a way out. Hard evidence is what's going to get them to squirm (reply to this comment)

From plains Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 08:54 (Agree/Disagree?) One face for the front, sheep, public and another kind of face for their own group.Been there, been one of them. It came from one of their very on children..."we're not allowed to fellowship with you". While the adults pretend that they're welcome. yuck!!!(reply to this comment)

From ChivasRegal Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 07:16 (Agree/Disagree?) I lived with John and Joanna and they have the sweetest kids I've ever met. What is the story with them?(reply to this comment)

From plains Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 08:50 (Agree/Disagree?) They are still the sweetest kids. I hate to be promoting gossip as these are real personal for those involve, but just to give u an idea, their CC helper sexually abused about four or five of the younger kids. This is not just a one time slip up, but has been going on for a looong time. People suspected evil going on...reported to the CROS and nothing happened. When it finally got out, they, I mean the leadership ushered the creep out of the country instead of putting him in JAIL. The older brothers wanted to hire a hitman, u know, its pretty cheap in Thailand to get this dude, but he went back to his home country....end of story. This is real crime....tell CEphas and all the other leadership. They are obstructing justice!!! (reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 13:57 (Agree/Disagree?) AAAkkk! What home country? I don't want this guy anywhere near my country! Yuck. BTW, there's no such thing as a "one time slip up" of sexual abuse. (reply to this comment)

From plains Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 16:18 (Agree/Disagree?) very true....just trying to portray how bad it was.(reply to this comment)

from Fish Monday, December 19, 2005 - 15:42 (Agree/Disagree?) I think for starters you have to realize that most of the questions you posted would seem to be pure gibberish to a dedicated family member. Which I presume Cephass is. 1. Sexual abuse of children/ and in some cases grooming minors to be sexual partners of FGA’s once age of consent given. What’s wrong with loving children? What everybody needs is love! As for the "white hot marriage" of the generations, if the lord wills it, who are you to say its wrong? 2. Lack of proper education. Proper? You call the "doctrine of devils" that the system teaches "proper"? For one of Gods children? Don’t think so. 3. Corporal punishment which was completely unwarranted and unacceptable. The word tell us to "spare not the rod". You think you know better? 4. Forced indoctrination of perverted ideas and sick religious ideology. What? Now our ideology is sick? Just because a few vicious exmember apostates think we are sick, sure doesn’t mean we are. People thinking that the world was flat didn’t make it so, did it? 5. Unethical and illegal fund raising activities of TF members. Once again, WHAT? The lord is the one who decides what’s right and wrong, not you. 6. Using children as employees/ slave labour to make money for the group. Our children love to witness. Just read a few articles posted at "MyConclusion". 7. The use of fear and intimidation (both real and by way of group fantasy) to achieve control of people. What fear? "All happy children are the children of David". And even if you are right, "The fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom". The point of this Devils advocacy is that your questions are far too subjective, in my book. You can’t fight against blind faith, not logically at any rate. (reply to this comment)

From Cadoc Thursday, December 22, 2005, 00:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Fish said: "You can’t fight against blind faith, not logically at any rate." Well said.(reply to this comment)

From Fish Friday, December 23, 2005, 18:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Why thank you.(reply to this comment)

from plains Monday, December 19, 2005 - 07:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Have a good chat with Cephas! It seems there's a wide gap in how they see things and how we and the rest of the world sees things. Therefore the answer to those sincere honest questions will be something "spiritual". In other words just totally strange, weird or the runaround even though they try so hard to relate, it just will not cut the mustrad. Their minds are so altered, the thought patterns are changed from years and years of doctrines and constant brainwashing. For me it's like talking to a whole different being. There's just no way, any answer will be "normal". They'll never see it no matter how much you try. If you were normal, then you're a worldly systemite that should be avoided and prayed over, cleanse yourself after contact, read a bunch of "word" afterwards....so there you go.... They've offended so many people, from full time members who spent years of their lives"Living for the Lord", to contacts that were helping them "faithfully", and to many many young people , who not only do not believe in God now because of how they shoved the Gospel right at their throats. These are things that would be part of the list besides the sexual abuse and child care failures. Hey, see if they could still relate to John and Joanna's case...let the creep go, so they can continue on with their fancy ministry, not considering the eternal trauma and emotional, physical hurt that those kids went through ask them why they don't count? and Steven's polygamy, and why do they prefer "sheep" that has money, or influence, ask him why do they ask for donations to help the cause when really its for their personal rent and electricity and water bills, while they sing a few songs to "cheer" the handicap as a ploy. Why don't they get jobs instead of conning people???? especially that its Christmas.... And lastly, why do they JUDGE people all the time when that is GOD's business, only God alone. (reply to this comment)

from ktc Monday, December 19, 2005 - 04:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe he was one of the more easy going CRO's, and maybe Steven CRO had the most influence. But they were supposed to all be equal in their vote and influence, so does it make him any less guilty? Maybe in your asking, Ben, you can ask why they deliberately deceived people? Why was it that when full time folks came to the OH on visa trips or just plain business, that if they were deemed not good enough to go inside the hallowed halls of the OH, and their names were smeared to all the other people in the OH, they were not treated with the dignity and consideration that others were given? Why is it that when one chooses, through praying and hearing from the Lord, and because of circumstances beyond their control, they decide to become FM, that they are now treated like pariahs, and given the run around. Why is it, that when, again, folks decide to move on, because they genuinely feel its the Lord's Will in their lives, their children (still full time and living at the OH) are told to straight out lie to their parents about the annual Bkk Christmas concert, and are told that there in fact is no concert. Why are folks, now FM, accused of being drug pushers, and accused of using their legitimate business for bringing drugs into the country???? Just a few things. TF are kings of deceit and doublespeak. They need to be presented with hard facts and truth that they cannot deny. Many of these things could just totally be avoided by the honest truth. Do they actually think that people who have spent decades in TF don't know when they've been given the shaft, or at least, the runaround??? Ask Cephas all these things...for sure you'll get something like, "Well I wasn't directly involved in that. I didn't know that was happening. I was off in India, etc...That's the way it all goes here in ASCRO, and maybe the rest of the world, but particularly here. I just tried something of this nature recently, and I got general apologies, and denials. It goes on an on. You can choose to torment yourself with all this for eternity, because, believe me, you'll never get a straight answer, much less an unqualified apology, or you can just move on and forget about these people who are so in their own little world and so narrowminded that they refuse to expand their horizons, and actually give an unqualified, "Sorry, I was was wrong. Please forgive me." Believe me, you'll be waiting til Hell freezes over. (reply to this comment)

from Fish Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 17:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Uncle Ceafass can rot in hell for all I care. He was a real pain last I met him, though admitidly he had more style than Mark Cro, or the others of the indian asscro. Fucker called me a "tourist in the spirit". Im still trying to figure out what that meant. Hey ask him that for me, would you? What is a "spiritual tourist"? (reply to this comment)

from JohnnieWalker Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 11:06 (Agree/Disagree?) I'll be emailing you some questions for Cephas later on today. I'd post them here, but since TF occasionally monitors this site, I would hate to ruin the element of surprise for you by giving Cephas time to formulate a party-line response. (reply to this comment)

from ktc Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 04:47 (Agree/Disagree?) All the best to you. ASCRO, particularly Thailand, screwed up so many young people. I hope you'll get some straight answers from Cephas. I won't lump him in with the rest of the CRO's, which by the way, are now RS's, but its next to impossible to get a straight honest answer from the leaders. Your questions are good, straighforward, and require straightforward answers. Hope your meeting will go well and bring the results you're hoping for. (reply to this comment)

from electric Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 16:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I remember when Cephas joined the family in 1984. He was FFed at the Bangkok Combo, his real name is Bert. (I was only 4 at the time, don't know how I remember all this) He was a nice guy, we used to call him uncle burp. He's been a CRO long enough, I don't remember him actually perpetrating any abuse directly, but of course he was in on all the concentration camp type victor programmes that went on at the Thai training centre. Anyway, he was always nice enough to me at least. (reply to this comment)

From knows electric Sunday, December 18, 2005, 23:11 (Agree/Disagree?) JP, nice enuf???? I don't know who yr comparing him to, sure there were plenty of people worse than him in ASCRO...but that's not saying much considering were talking about ASSCRO. I'm sure Steven Vessel kind of might have done worse, and damn that bastard French Tommy. I swear if I'm ever in his vicinity with a skinning knife, I'll make a good french fillet. So here's my chance to ask if anyone knows where French Tommy aka Tommy TS is, cuz I got some vacation time coming up, and this would be a funner field-dressing than anything on the African Savanah :) (reply to this comment)

From electric Monday, December 19, 2005, 02:16 (Agree/Disagree?) All I was saying is that other CRO's were much worse than him, i.e. Dawn etc. And he never seemed to be the judgmental put you on silence restriction for 6 months with exorcisms and the board daily type of guy. Of course he was in on the stuff that went on, I was just saying that he was one of the better ones and always treated me fairly at least. And of course Steven Vessel was one of the worst ones around, but I have decided to forgive all them for their evil deeds, and feel sorry for them instead, knowing that I am the better man. (reply to this comment)

From NClaunch Tuesday, December 20, 2005, 19:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Wow i haven't heard (or thought of) the name Steven Vessel in a long time. Thanks for the flashbacks.(reply to this comment)

From the eyes of the lord are in every place Monday, December 26, 2005, 17:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Steven Vessel is in Phuket now.(reply to this comment)

From I agree.... Monday, December 19, 2005, 04:34 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree that Dawn has to be one of the worst - but Cephas wasn't far behind, at least in the interaction I had with him. But isn't this really an exercise in chosing 'the lesser of two evils'?(reply to this comment)

From Wicked Monday, December 19, 2005, 02:15 (Agree/Disagree?) In CAMBODIA very easy to find him!!!!!!!!! he's married to a thai B**** named Serena and her son Ezra. Why not contact Timothy aka Vincent of Sunny James He's the the other adopted son.(reply to this comment)