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Getting Out : Seeking Justice
Civil Action Against The Family | from JohnnieWalker - Wednesday, November 30, 2005
accessed 4025 times A U.S. law firm is investigating the possibility of bringing suit regarding child abuse and exploitation in the Family (aka Children of God, Family of Love, Family International).
Anyone who was abused or exploited as a child in the Family, was not properly compensated, and is interested in seeing whether their claims can be brought in civil court, may obtain the law firm's contact information from Exister (http://www.movingon.org/viewuser.asp?sID=5&uID=1150).
IMPORTANT: The law firm is asking that people who are interested contact them by January 1st, 2006. This investigation is to look into the possibility of survivors of Family child abuse bringing civil suit against abusers. These lawyers practice civil law (as distinguished from criminal law). This particular investigation is directed at holding responsible civilly those people who were responsible for the abuse suffered by survivor(s) who want to file a complaint against the responsible person(s).
The people at the law firm who are involved in this investigation have been provided with background about the Family and copies of some Family material and media coverage. You will not have to worry about having to explain the Family from scratch to people unaware of the idiosyncrasies of the environment and the physical, emotional and sexual abuse that it fostered, or the medical neglect, educational neglect and economic exploitation. They have already heard from a number of people raised in the Family and get the basic picture.
However, if you have a document or other material that you consider useful to your case, please mention it to them in case they do not have it yet.
It is important to note that this law firm cannot contact you unless you first contact them. If you know of someone who does not visit this website who may be interested in such a suit, they would need to contact the law firm personally.
The firm will not charge you any money unless they help you recover something. This is known as a "contingency fee" arrangement.
Although the law firm is in the United States, you can also contact them if you are a foreigner who suffered damages when you were abused as a child in the Family and wish to see if there is a possibility of bringing your claim in a U.S. court and/or a State court in the U.S.
It is not necessary to have suffered every type of child abuse practiced in the Family.
This law firm has also worked on behalf of people abused as minors by Catholic priests and clergy from other religions, so they have a better understanding of a lot of the issues than people might have who don't regularly work with victims of sexual, emotional and physical child abuse. They are very informed of the damage and suffering that victims of child abuse are known to have.
While this firm has brought some successful claims for clergy child abuse victims, organizations like the Catholic Church have more known locations of headquarters, organizational heads or bosses, as well as files and assets that are not hidden. In addition to that, there are numerous other factors that render those cases simpler by comparison.
If you do not know the legal name of your abusers or the people responsible for the programs in which you were abused, that needn't keep you from contacting the firm about your claims. If a suit were brought, those individuals would be called defendant "John Doe" in the complaint for the time being. In the case of persons responsible for abuse whose address is unknown, such as Maria/Karen Zerby, Peter/Steven Kelly and/or other leaders (who may have lived in selah Homes) who abetted or promoted abusive programs, the complaint could state that his or her "address and whereabouts are unknown". If enough people who contact the firm were abused by the same person, chances are somebody will know the abuser's name or whereabouts, or know somebody who can find it out. Photos, descriptions, locations, dates, etc. can help greatly to fill in missing pieces of information.
Needless to say, this is a complicated scenario. It may be very difficult to actually get our day in court, so we must be prepared for nothing dramatic to happen, especially if there is a lack of responses, the sum of which could put together a strong case. These are lawyers, not miracle workers.
Regardless of whether people choose to contact the law firm or not, it is imperative that they put their health and happiness first in deciding what, if anything, will help with their healing.
PS: Please note that none of the above would prevent any group or individual from inquiring (either separately or concomitantly) of relevant authorities for any possible criminal charges to be brought for abuse he or she suffered. It is up to each individual whether or not he or she prefers to approach the authorities or the law firm, or both.
If you prefer to talk to U.S. Federal authorities, for example, you can contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation in San Diego, which knows about the Family and the general circumstances of the abuse. Exister also has direct contact info for the FBI (or perhaps you know someone who has also called the FBI and can give you the direct number).
UPDATE (14/02/2006): See http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=3512 for an update on this article. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Lovelight23
Friday, March 31, 2006 - 02:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know if everyone knows yet, but I was told that the case has been closed down. There is no case cause TF isn't a legal entity and they can't be sued as a group, they can however be sued individually. That would mean tracking down the people that hurt us. Kinda hard to do. But I was just wondering because they have many legal companies, can they be sued? They are products of TF themselves. Say Aurora Productions, or the company that produces Cherub Wings, or whatever other companies TF has created. Just an idea for the lawyers to ponder I guess.
(reply to this comment)
| from Lola
Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 22:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
(reply to this comment)
| from ESJ
Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 15:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
BTW, this proposed class action, is it only for those ex SG's living in North America, or can ex SG's from all over the world register their interest? Could you let me know?
(reply to this comment)
|  From one who knows
Tuesday, January 03, 2006, 20:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ex SG's from all over the world can register their interest, although I would suggest doing so ASAP as we are past 1/1. As the article notes:
"Although the law firm is in the United States, you can also contact them if you are a foreigner who suffered damages when you were abused as a child in the Family and wish to see if there is a possibility of bringing your claim in a U.S. court and/or a State court in the U.S."
JW, maybe this can be clarified that you do not need to be living in the US either (apparently this was not clear?!).
(reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Tuesday, January 03, 2006, 21:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
Non-americans can certainly file. I'm a German citizen, for example.
I mentioned in one of my posts below that one need not be in the US to file in this suit. But to make it clear again:
YES, a US citizen in a country other than the US can bring his or her claim.
YES, a non-US citizen residing in the US can bring their claim.
YES, non-US citizens residing in non-US countries can bring their claim. (Although, I will have to find out more about this as I'm not 100% sure of this.)
In any case, contacting the firm is not difficult and it's always best to get it directly from the source.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | from LL
Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was wondering if anyone else was having a hard time filling out the document from the firm. I received mine three weeks ago and allotted myself the holidays to fill it out. I procrastinated until last night. I don't know how to describe what happened...I got to the middle of the third page and had a panic attack which ended up in three hours of sobbing uncontrollably while my body dry heaved. Sobs turned into sounds I had never heard myself make, sounds of grief and pain so deep and I had no control. I found myself banging my head into the wall and holding myself like a child. I was terrified...was surrounded by fear and pain. Eventually drank myself into a coma. This morning I woke confused but with resolve to finish it. I thought I was stronger than this. I put this behind me and moved on a long time ago. I guess in order to fill out the form I have to remember, something I want to do but am not sure if I am mentally ready to go back and comb through memories. They seem all lumped together, names faces and places, and to try to write anything honestly and coherently requires facing each demon individually and writing down their name. I guess the only way I could put it away until now was to lump it together in a ball of trauma and put it in the deepest corners of my mind. A friend of mine suggested that I try to fill the rest out with a therapist. Just wondering if anyone experienced anything like this.
(reply to this comment)
| From ESJ
Tuesday, January 03, 2006, 15:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yup, been there, as have the most deeply affected of my children. I call it a 'healing catharsis'. Its as if all the pain lurks in a deep, dark, primal place within and can unwittingly be invoked and brought to the surface like an exploding volcanoe by some specific 'trigger'.
The deep heaving and wailing and 'primal cries' and unconsolable sobbing is actually a good thing. It's lifting the lid and releasing the pressure of a lifetime of suppressed pain. It's the human soul in its most primal innocence purging itself of its suffering through a cathartic release. It can go on for some time and is utterly exhausting and all-consuming. But ultimately one will come out of it somewhat lighter and freer of unconscious pain.
I have experienced this myself a few times since leaving TF, usually at either a major emotional crisis point/ turning point, or while participating in some 'healing therapy activitiy'. The last time it happened for me was when I stood up and spoke out at TF's bogus 'Children's Rights in Religious Movements' conference two years ago, where I publicly confronted the leaders Paul and Joy Hartington and their cohorts about the plight of the SG's.
I came away from the conference feeling very disturbed and agitated and absolutely livid at TF's lies, denials, decietfulness, and blatant fraudulence. And as providence would have it, I'd been invited to an informal gathering of friends who are wholistic healers and therapists afterwards, so I went directly there from the conference. They'd set up half a dozen massage tables to work on each other as a kind of 'mutual nurturing and healing' exercise. They put me on a massage table and about 5 people just put their hands on me and 'sent me love and healing' and exactly what you described happened to me. It all just rocketed to the surface and I wailed and heaved and sobbed for hours and got a lot of it out of my system. It probably won't be the last time it happens, but I just know to go with it, not try to resist it, just let it all out when it comes, cause it's sure 'better out than in'. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Bones
Tuesday, January 03, 2006, 13:14
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I noticed that you said "I thought I was stronger than this". Feeling hurt, fear, anxiety, and emotional pain is not mean you are weak. It means you are human. Resolving to finish it regardless of how horrible it makes you feel is an absoulte sign of strength. Give yourself some much deserved credit. Running from your feelings is weakness.(reply to this comment) |
| | from exister
Monday, December 05, 2005 - 13:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
I figured I should chime in on this article.
The most pressing need right now is for the law firm involved to get a head count of possible plaintiffs. They have stated that they need that head count by 01/01/06.
Rather than wait for movingon.org to forward email to me you can all feel free to contact me directly at exister@gmail.com. I will then respond with specifics about contacting the firm involved.
For the permanent skeptics out there, yes, this is real life, in living, blazing color!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from your common ex-TF member
Monday, December 05, 2005 - 06:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would like know more details as to what exactly this implies for your common ex-TF member who wants to help bring the abusers and there system down. Is it a question of numbers? What if one doesn't have any names, hardly any memory of what happened? Would it still be a help? Is the simple fact of having lived in it enough to come forward?
What exactly is one expected to do if he/she wishes to partake in this legal action?
viel dank for the info.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | from tuneman7
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 17:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
It's good to know that Civil and Criminal procedings are not mutually exclusive.
There were many forms of exploitation and abuse as well.
Anything to get the truth out is needed at this point.
Regards,
(reply to this comment)
| from thinking about the future
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 16:32
(Agree/Disagree?)
So I definitely like the idea of Zerby being put on trial. However, the thing I worry about is the effect on my parents who are still in the Family, of anything happening to FCF. My parents are older and although they are Family members, they are not doing anything bad and are actually helping some of my siblings that have left. At this point they need FCF and although I am upset at them for a variety of reasons, they are still my parents and I care for their welfare.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From interesting.
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 19:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Do FCF donors know that their charitable dollars are going to a cult partly to help that cult deal with its failure? As in "helping some of my siblings that have left." Don't get me wrong, I think it's great your siblings are getting something I never got. It's just food for thought. Maybe FCF should start a "helping at-risk cult kids not fall through the cracks when they leave" project, help fix what they broke, and be honest about it. (reply to this comment) |
| | From FCF info
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 16:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
FCF is essentially just a tax-exempt status, unless you're parents are receiving huge amounts of money from the FCF then perhaps you worries are unfounded.
If they are providing an even halfway legitimate service where ever they are then they could team up with a genuine US non-profit or a local one. It might help to determine how dependent they actually are on the FCF to see if they would actually be affected by the FCF being sued. (reply to this comment) |
| | from bones
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 14:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
The only thing that would bring me peace would be to see them suffer not only like we did in TF, but also for the years of shame and embarrassment trying to find a normal life afterward. It is hard for me to get excited, after so long I have just buried it in a shallow grave. Nothing that happens to them will be enough for me, so nothing can be enough. It's such a conflict in my head. Justice doesn't repay their debt because it's only the wages for their sins (sorry to quote the bible). The bad part of me wants to see them harmed further to repay their shitty carma. But at least the bad part of me is the small part of me. The rest of me knows they are simply insane. I mean read their literature for god's sake, these people are completely disconnected from reality. "Space city" in the moon? "Spirits" who possess you? "Making love to jesus"? It's hard not to laugh my ass off thinking about it. So maybe institutionalizing them and putting them on thorazine would make me feel better. Yes, that's the answer for me. I feel better. I hope all of you get what you are looking for.
(reply to this comment)
| From
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 22:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Nothing that happens to them will be enough for me, so nothing can be enough."
But they were poised to erase their sins and become the new mother Teresa. Did you see any of their propaganda in the last decade? Stuff done with the sponsorship of professors of sociology, religion and baptistry?
So while there may be nothing that is enough, isn't their greater whitewash-based success a greater injustice?
Let's prevent that. 5 minus two may not be zero, but it IS three, which is less than 5...(reply to this comment) |
| | From Bones
Friday, December 02, 2005, 09:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
I meant that more on an personal level. But I agree with your math ;) I think there are some people, most likely recent ex-members, who will be positively effected by this. I dont mean to begrudge them any sense (regardless how premature) of victory. It is just a little bittersweet for me, like finally finding a bandaid for your severed arm. I would even be willing to help, although anything I could testify to would be getting close to 20 years old now. I hope everything goes well and I hope it empowers some of the more denigrated souls out there. I know there are plenty. (reply to this comment) |
| | From someone.
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 22:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hi Bones, I feel you. I think to "get what [we] are looking for," we have to have our own projects going to get to what our idea of a future us. We can't count on highly contingent projects like a civil lawsuit, or even the much desired (at least by some) FBI investigation.
I also have conflict in my head. Some people in my life today can't understand why I wish so badly for acknowledgement and sorriness from those who abused me. Especially after the coverage this year, they wonder why I seem to need any more acknowledgement that what was done to me was sick and wrong. Even if the perps are arrogant and callous.
They have a point. Maybe it's influenced by the fact that in my particular case, some severe damage was done with the abuse to myself and siblings and friends that we will never undo, however much we manage to achieve today (because we have achieved. None of us are losers unwilling to work to overcome).
Curiously, though, since the cult doesn't think much of the law (unless it's to fear what it can do, when once in a while it flexes its muscle -- and to villify those who have cooperated with law enforcement), the people who would most respect a legal proceeding, whether it reached an early stage (filing) or a late one (judgment, judgment in absentia, settlement, bankruptcy, cult insurance payout) are the law-abiding people I know today. The same ones who shake their heads at the cult stuff that is so nuts and wonder what the heck it matters what the cult says.
But, as it was said below, it is what it is. Nobody should expect to be spared the hard work of making a life, not on these slim odds. Certainly not if people are not interested.
Be well.(reply to this comment) |
| | from hmmm
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
Just remember that some were guiltier than others.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From Albatross
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 11:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
You are right. This is why we will try to let the legal system parse out the blame and the responsibility. I for one think it begins with those who are now at the top of TFI leadership structure. We know who they are, and they have been consistently in charge of TFI from the days of the major abuses through today. They have not been held reponsible and TFI continues to be run by them, and they continue to benefit from monies sent back up the chain. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from Albatross
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Let's do this. The Family adults and leadership abused us, worked us, raped us, fondled us, denied us education, beat us, and continue to blame us. Let's put the heat on them in the legal area. There is strength in numbers. If there is indeed potential for action here it will be helped by numbers. We now have a wealth of press articles establishing an understanding. We have a long list of press contacts who will be more than eager to follow up on our story if we can this thing into court. Let's make TFI spend its ill-gotten-gains on defending themselves. Let's name Zerby, Peter, Grant, Perfillio, Peloquin, Borowik, Lonnie Davis, Daniel Craig Roselle, Sara Davidito and all other abusers and leaders by name. Let's give them a "Shake up" for once.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from Days of Reckoning
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
"The Archdiocese of Boston yesterday reached a tentative agreement with lawyers representing more than 500 people who say they were sexually abused by priests in which the church would pay the plaintiffs $85 million, the largest single amount ever in a case of clergy sexual abuse."
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories5/091003_settlement.htm
(reply to this comment)
| from Baxter
Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
Although I don't personally feel it is necessary to get involved personally (unless you need me for some reason), as I don't personally feel the need for a personal adjudication on my account, I do wish you luck. I will say that if it does succeed, I will feel a good deal lighter. A broad victory of this sort would would be good news, even we all don't get our own personal day in the sun.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From tisha
Monday, December 11, 2006, 13:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
NO KIDDING!!
I know I personally raised 1000s of dollars out of litnessed covered coffee cans, rain, sleet, sun, cold, or hot, out there instead of being in school. Going to school exhausted from hours on the streets. If anyone deserves compensation, it's the kids that lined their pockets with gold.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 11:06
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Even if you win, who's to say you'll ever be able to lay your hands on any payment worth mentioning. We all know how effective they have been at hiding themselves to date, I think we can rest assured that their cash will be even harder to find. So you end up winning the case and they file for bankruptcy meaning you gain no more than a token gesture (if that) for your efforts?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From nfoman
Saturday, December 03, 2005, 22:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
It's in Swiss banks, like this one: Family Missions Foundation, UBS AG, 0273-00252909.01V, Post Fach 1510, Baarerstrasse 14a, 6300 Zug, Switzerland
This account wouldn't be holding Zerby and Peter's retirement stash. In an ideal world that would be the best account to empty when there's payments or a settlement.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 02:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
I believe that the Swiss Banking Secrecy only applies to certain types of accounts - not all bank accounts in Switzerland are the notorious 'Swiss Bank Accounts' - typically these are numbered accounts (ie: no name associated), unlike the one above which is clearly associated with a name.
That said, however, there are clearly issues of jurisdiction, and I doubt a US civil court will have jurisdiction over a Swiss bank.
Also, the account above is clearly in the name of an organisation, and this case is being made against individuals.
And finally, considering that this is a 'public' account that TF members pay their tithes into, I would be surprised if WS actually saves any considerable amount of mony in it. And knowing WS' obsession with security, I doubt they would even transfer the money direct, leaving a recognisable audit trail, rather any cash would be withdrawn and deposited into another account in another name.(reply to this comment) |
| | From speculating
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 13:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Even though it is a case against individuals, those individuals may have money or have been abetted with money that was put in the name of Family Missions Foundation, no? Isn't Peter a head of FMF?
Also, if FMF is a not-for-profit, it is possible that Swiss law requires more accountability.
Jurisdiction issues get complicated. In this case, enforcing of foreign judments. Some coutries have treaties agreeing to what they will do or not. Other countries have developed laws. Some, for example, will enforce foreign judgments but not foreign tax judgments (absent treatise), reasoning that it is not up to one government to help another carry out its revenue policy.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Hansel
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 19:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
Common law doctrine that applies to limited liability partnerships, corporations and companies. It allows a plaintiff (for tort or contract liability) to sue a shareholder directly when the corp entity has insufficient funds for creditor/victim to recover.
Typically requires plaintiff prove the entity was being run as an "alter ego" of the controlling shareholder, i.e., co-mingling of corporate & private assets, not following corporate formalities like regular shareholder/board of director meetings, and more importantly, plaintiff must establish that not allowing the defendant to sue directly would allow fraud or injustice by the shareholder.
Typically only successful in piercing undercapitalized closely held corporations w/ a single active controlling shareholder. (reply to this comment) |
| | From
Monday, December 05, 2005, 05:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, but does the same apply the other way? Obviously, any shares which one owns would be considered part of their estate, but apart from that, the company is its own distinct legal entity, and not directly subject to legal action taken against individual directors - particularly where they are not acting on behalf of, or in their position within, that organisation.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Hansel
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 20:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
That is a different theory. Not veil piercing. If you wanted to sue a director of a corporation for his actions you could sue either "directly" as an agrieved shareholder or "derivatively" which is on behalf of the corporate entity. If you win either way, the director is personally liable.
This is what happend with the Worldcom debacle. The entire board of directors was found to have breached their fiduciary duty of care to the shareholders. The final settlement was that every director on their board gave 20% of their ENTIRE net worth to compensate the corporation and shareholders. These are of course corporate law theories that have no bearing unless there is a corporate entity.
What you are looking for could best be characterized under tort Principal/Agency theory. If family leadership authorized their agents to commit torts, and they did so on their behalf, they are just as liable. There is no need for a contractual link between family leadership and child abusers--If either the child abusers or the victims reasonably believes (based on words, letters, actions) family leadership authorized it and they did not rebut it, that will likely establish agency. (reply to this comment) |
| | From
Wednesday, December 07, 2005, 01:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
In your zeal to evidence your legal knowledge you have missed the point of this thread. Seeing as how in this case we have clearly identified individual perpetrators 'piercing the veil' is irrelevant. However, it is highly unlikely that these perps have legally tracable estates worth mentioning, yet there are likely notable financial holdings in the various 'front organisations'. As far as I can tell, in order to claim compensation from the holdings of these organisations, one would have to file a claim againts that organisation, but that would require evidence that the organisation, as an entity, bore responsibility for the abuses - something which is unlikely given that these fronts were recently established, and have by-&-large been kept 'clean'.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From someone who contacted the firm
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 10:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
You are needed, everybody is needed if there is to be any success. Mostly, everybody is welcomed. There are obstacles due to the cult's secretive, lawless and unaccountable MO, and the best bet is for as many of us as possible to come forward. My understanding is that if this happens, it would not be a "personal" day in the sun for people but a statement that it was not OK. I think the only way to get Peter, Maria and cohorts to listen is to have a lot of voices asking for it.
I can't stand when the cult says "well if you were abused, take it to the law" when they know the obstacles we face. I know I will feel better for at least having tried to say in a lawful, civilized way that "look, there were consequences to me of your abuse, and look, there are consequences for you too, like there are consequences for pedophile priests and gurus."
I think that to prevent what was done to me and those I care about from being done to as many other innocent children in the future as can be prevented from suffering, it will be necessary for the people inclined to do something because they can do it and expect to get away with it, to see that there are consequences.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Baxter
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 10:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Over the years, a lot of people have come to owe me a lot of things. Frankly, in as far as I am personally concerned, I don't care. I don't place that much stock in the concept of human justice anyway, and I am not bothered enormously about personal revenge. I think that if someting like this succeeds, then I will be pleased that the Family has been brought to account for its irresponsiblity, but on a personal level, it no longer retains any worthwhile emotional gravity. I am still angry up to a point, but not angry enough to seek personal 'justice'. I do not condemn those who do, it is just that i do not number as one of them. For the most part, my anger is levelled against particulart individuals within the organisation. If I went seeking legal or moral adjudication against everyone who wronged me, then I would be preoccupied for a long time. The Family no longer inhabits an enormous part of my life, and I am glad for the fact. Now if it is a question of helping other ex-TF people with crucial support in their desire to lead a normal life, then I will gladly help within reason. But I have no need to embark on a personal crusade. I am sorry but that is where I stand. Very little of what the Family deprived me of is not procurable by personal effort, and what I cannot retrieve I have for the most part learned to live without. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Baxter
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 14:31
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Look here, mate. I wish you well, and if there is anything you need me to do for you in regards to this, I will be glad to it within reason. Good luck, and wish that sincerely. But, as I said before, in relation to my personal life - I DON'T FUCKING CARE!!!
What exactly do I have to be afraid of some bunch of freaked out old hippies for? They can't get meany more, and I'm not interested in going after them. So you go and act, and frankly I wouldn't wnat to have anything to do with anything involving anyone as jumped-up and hypocrytical, and self-indulgent as someone who refers to himself as 'philosopher'. GO SHOVE IT UP YOUR ARSE!! As a matter of fact I do have other stuff on my mind which is none of your fucking business, but how in the hell would you have known my present state of affairs, you presumptuous fuck!?
If it was a question of stopping a serious crime from being committed to someone I care about, I'd be in in a second, but as it stands I have other things that are frankly higher on my list of priorities AT THE FUCKING MOMENT!!! That is NOT to say that I don't have the utmost respect for those who will be conducting this, but clearly it is much more important to them personally, and is closer to their hearts than mine! LIKE I SAID, if you need me to help in any way WITHIN REASON, I will be happy to oblige! But I AM NOT going to throw my energy into something I no longer care about. And to those of you who say that you can't let people push you around all your life, there is a world of difference between not letting people push you around and trying to right every past wrong. For me, part of learning that was getting over the idea that it mattered anyway. They stole my childhood as well, but frankly I am not a child anymore. My childhood and nothing is gonna bring it back. I have nothing to personally gain from this, which means that this is not my fight. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From someone who contacted the firm
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 15:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
Baxter, I really appreciate what you expressed about those of us who are doing this, and I totally support your choice to not participate.
I think it's important, as the article says, that people do what is healthiest for them and it sounds like you have worked things out for yourself in that regard.
"Philosopher" was not me, but I can see how those of us adding our story to the effort could get frustrated. Just as you have been able to no longer care about it, we have probably ensured that we will care intensely for at least as long as this possibility exists. Some of us may be aware of how much other survivors want acknowledgement and our comments may be indicative of the fear that lack of response will lead to nothing happening for them as well. I hope we all can bear with each other through this month of possibility, hope and the unknown. Come January 1 you won't have to deal with us anymore ;-)
For those of us involved, I would humbly suggest that we try to express our hope or wishing in ways other than knocking the approach of people who have figured out what works to make them happy. This will only be worthwhile if it improves survivors' well-being, and there is a lot of diversity in what works for people.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Philosopher
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 15:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
Actually wait, I see what your saying except for where you say your not prepared to 'throw your energy into it', what makes you think your going to have to do anything more than make a call and fill out a form?
I suppose the point is that as many people as possible are needed to make it happen. Anyway like I said apologies for the judgemental tone (reply to this comment) |
| | From sailor
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 10:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
A manipulative, evil, psychotic woman, robbed me of a good part of my childhood. Do I want her to pay? Hell, yes. Baxter, I don't want to live my llife with the attitude that people can push me around and use me with no consequences. Maybe a lot of people owe you a lot of things because you don't stand up for yourself enough. The Family leadership did ruin people's lives and they have to account for all of the physical and emotional abuse. (reply to this comment) |
| | From conan
Saturday, December 10, 2005, 22:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Do you honestly think that Zerby will actually end up giving you anything that could possibly repay what she raped and took from all of us? And as far as standing up for yourself, I remember trying to do that as a young child born into a psychotic cult and would only reap harsher repercussions and further abuse. Standing up for one's self may be an issue for some, but in this case, it seems that the whole thing may prove to be yet another exercise in futility which some are unwilling to get their hopes up for or throw energy into, only to see nothing happen. Personally, I will be contacting the firm to see how I can help, but will not actively get involved with much of anything outside of moral support for the simple reason that I have put most of my issues behind me and as such have comes to terms with the fact that I will always have had a fucked-up childhood.
That being said, I have no hopes or aspirations for any monetary (or other sundry) compensation but hope that the issue will be confronted by national and international media to the point that Family members as a group will see that despite the lies they’ve been fed, Berg, Zerby, Kelly et al are evil, malicious, sadistic, predatory creeps and their lives have been for personal gratification as opposed to the perpetuated betterment of mankind as they have claimed to be championing for, for decades.
In the chance that there is (in the distant future) a positive verdict for us after all is said and done; the emotional lift to my psyche and sub-conscious would be worth more to me than any monetary dividends to make up for “loss of dignity” or whatever.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From JohnnieWalker
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 10:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is not going to be a "personal crusade". The "particular individuals" your "anger is levelled against" would be just a few on a long list of defendants. The accusations against all of these would be brought in a single claim.
You said: "Now if it is a question of helping other ex-TF people with crucial support in their desire to lead a normal life, then I will gladly help within reason."
That's exactly what this is. You have no idea of the world of difference it would make to many ex-SGAs just to have some of the abusers listed as defendants.
Think about it: There has never been a court case in which Zerby was listed as a defendant. Now there's a precedent I would like to be involved in setting.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From
Thursday, December 01, 2005, 09:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sure the cult will try to shift the blame any which way, but people you sue can't just come and change the name of who you are suing on the court documents. I have heard of lots of clergy child abuse lawsuits, but never yet heard of one where abusers and their organization were able to shift the blame to the parents. In fact, I think a lot of our parents could hold the cult responsible for failing to protect us when they took us to "schools" and "combos" etcetera. How lame is the defense "well, you should have known we were going to abuse them."
The poster below was right when they said that if there are many of us, the cult will not be able to say "oh that was just so-and-so's family that was odd," when there are multiple incidences of similar abuse from all around the world.
But it would take a lot of us to get to that, and I guess if there isn't the will, it is what it is. I just think it would be a constructive way for some of us to seek some acknowledgement.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from Incredible
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 17:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thank God for this! Thanks also to whoever made it possible.
(reply to this comment)
| from rubeingserved
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 17:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
Great news this is fantastic,now is everybodys chance to get it together on one page.Or the more the merrier.
(reply to this comment)
| From Eva St John
Wednesday, December 07, 2005, 17:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
I wholeheartedly support this project and really hope it goes somewhere.
I feel the main point is, as has already been mentioned, whether anybody sees any money out of it or not, if a civil suit were brought against TF and all the evidence and witness affidavits brought forward publicly - (the media would have a heyday covering it!) - and a ruling was brought against TF, this would quite literally go down in history as proof that they were/are guilty and culpable. It would be in the publiuc domain forever and never again would TF be able to hide behind former miscarriages of justice from the past, or deny their own culpability. It would also help to put an end to all their fraudulent charity fronts, etc, because they could be linked to the group who had maybe 500-some ex SG's take out a class action against them for child abuse.
In this type of case, except for a few who feel inclined to work closely with the lawyers, most ex SG's who put their name down as a complainent would not need to do anything further except write out an affidavit at some stage, and then possibly - only possibly - spend a few hours in a court room somewhere down the line to confirm their testimony. This case would probably go on for quite awhile, perhaps even a couple of years for all the evidence to be heard, etc, but ultimately, I feel there's a big chance of success.
A big part of healing is recieving some form of genuine acknowledgement and validation in regards to the harm and damage one has suffered. It goes a long way in helping one to ultimately get free of it and move on. Even if all that happens is that the perpetrators are forced to make a public apology and ordered to make reparations, this would go down in history and be in the public domain from then on, thereby pulling the rug out from TF's feet forever. It would go a long way in rendering TF and it's deviate leaders unable to operate as they have done up until this point.
So I would encourage as many ex SG's to register their interest in this potential case as possible, even those not in the US, because it's really important to show just how extensive TF's abuseive treatment of their second generation has actually been, and how many have been affected by it. I believe that if its a class action all the complainents do not have to be in the country (ie: in the US), they can be anywhere in the world.
The more SG's who register their interest, the more conviction the lawyers are going to have as to the validity of your collective case. For most SG's, just having had a childhood in TF being entrained and indoctrinated and exploited from infanthood, even if they weren't personally sexually abused or beaten up, etc, pretty much justifies compensation. So I say, go for it! Good luck!
Cheers, Eva(reply to this comment) |
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