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from steam Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 11:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Alright I clicked on the link for the retirement home that Zerby's parents own. It is run by her sister and her husband (or Zerby's brother and his wife, I didn't get which was which. Basically I identified myself and explained that with the news reports concerning their Grandsons death claims were flying around the internet that Karen Zerby had a major financial stake in the operation, and I found it unlikely (at the time I actually did) but I figured the easiest way to put it to rest would be to straight up ask if it was true. I was told "our answer is no comment". I said that it would be alot simpler if it was nonsense to just say so and lay the claims to rest, and that I would take no comment as not being willing to lie that it isn't true. I again was told "I can only reply no comment on that". Well I don't know any exact numbers or the intricacies of the relationship, but I think a pretty obvious logical assumption, is that there is a financial relationship, and it is one that they do not want brought to light, which means they have something to hid!! Anyway it was an interesting conversation to be sure. (reply to this comment)

From steam Saturday, February 05, 2005, 11:44 (Agree/Disagree?) PS: If a family member reads my claim about my conversation with elderhaven and doubts it in anyway, they need only phone themselves, and ask them to either deny or confirm that Karen Zerby was the "angel investor" in the operation. Of course I realise you would be scared silly at the idea that somehow leadership might trace that you made the call and you would be in hot water. But do not try to deny what I said without taking five minutes to make a call and find out if it is true. Also if they become concerned about the ramifications of this, since Kelly and Zerby denied involvement in a family pub, once they realise I have posted this on the internet (and believe me someone in leadership trolls this site several times a day at this point in time) there is a possibility that they might convince the Old folks home to change their tune. I can easily see following this sort of reasoning to justify lying about it: "Just deny it, it isn't really a lie, Karen Zerby is not legally tied to the establishment, and if she decided to give a gift of several hundred thousand dollars to her parents right at a time they needed money to by this home, it doesn't automatically follow that Karen Zerby is a direct investor". Anyway if you see this shortly after my posting you will almost certainly receive the same answer.(reply to this comment)

from Nancy Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 16:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Below is the link to the FCF's Form 990 for 2002. It lists Angela Smith as on the Board of Directors. It also lists Grant Montgomery's salary as $37,000 and Lawrence Corley's is also $37,000, probably because if they paid any one director more than $50K, the had to report that separately. Ken Kelly is also a director. Interstingly, they spent $3.5K that year on legal fees, $18K on phone bills, $42K on contract labor, $3.2K on bank charges, $21K on director serv- retreat support (Maybe that is the cruise Daniel's parents went on with Sara Davidito.), $10K on insurance, $11K in repairs (of what?), $22K in towing and auction car costs (Apparently some folks, a lot of folks, donated their cars.), $134K in car intermediary fees (What is that? Car rentals?), $10K on vehicle fuel & maintenance (how many cars do they have?), $1.3K on workers' comp (Insurance? How many employees do they have?) and $68K on compensation to directors. They lost $9K on stocks they invested in. Now here's the big one! They spent $150K, (read: $150,000), on "marketing-internet search engine" that year. And we wonder why they are a sponsored result when you google "moving on" or "Ricky Rodriguez" or even "Daniel Roselle." This is the year they bought that $389K property from Christine Mlot, one of their director's right? Wasn't that house purchased in 2002? So, tell the public, again, Claire Borowik, that Angela Smith was not a member of the cult. I wonder, too, if it is appropriate for a director to sell her personally owned house to a non-profit for $389,000 three years after she purchased it for $370,000. That is a $23,000 profit. Is that a violation of her fiduciary duties? I don't know. "Capital Lease Payable - Brookside Farms----$326,009" "Capital Lease Payable - Furniture & Fixtures-$63,105" (That's a lot of furniture.) "These leases are with a member of the Board of Directors of Family Care Foundation. The relationship is explained in more detail in Statement 10." (Do show us "Statement 10." Who lives at this property? Why is it being leased with a Board Member?) Why has one of the board members, and treasurer according this 990, been sued a number of times for medical malpractice and wrongful death in California? Have a look for at their 990 for 2002. 990's for other years can be found at guidestar.com http://www.guidestar.org/Documents/2002/330/734/2002-330734917-1-9.pdf (reply to this comment)

From Nick Friday, February 04, 2005, 14:06 (Agree/Disagree?) Thats a lot of money to have spent on car rentals when you consider that my sister is suffering from malnutrition in some poor missionary home in the EE. And where did all the money come from for all of this? You can bet it was the tithe that my mom sends on what meagerly money she does make.(reply to this comment)

From Friday, February 04, 2005, 15:25 (Agree/Disagree?) I think the car intermediary fee is what they pay to people who sell donated cars. I have heard that Activated pays 30% of the selling price to the person/broker that sells the car and I would guess that FCF pays a similar percentage. (reply to this comment)

From ack Friday, February 04, 2005, 14:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah that's right! Maybe they could ride the bus twice a week and send my little sisters the shoes they need so bad! Fuck pompous bastards!(reply to this comment)

From miriam Friday, February 04, 2005, 13:36 (Agree/Disagree?) I can't say that I understand all this, nor do I know who some of these people are, but I certainly hope that those seeking justice for the abused are looking into these things. Hopefully, there are lawyers involved. (reply to this comment)

From ack Friday, February 04, 2005, 15:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I wonder how hard it would be to set up a charitable foudation to help pay for legal fees, as well as compensate some of the people who are giving not only time but money to this worthy cause? (that being all cult kids, not just COG). The eyes of the world are looking in on this right now, why waste this opportunity? TF is sure using their foundation to pay for their lies, why not use a foundation to pay for the truth?(reply to this comment)

From miriam Friday, February 04, 2005, 15:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Good idea!! Maybe someone has already thought of this. Anyone know who to contact? (reply to this comment)

From Nancy Thursday, February 03, 2005, 19:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Here are the links to the FCF's 990's for 1997-2001. They all show Angela Smith as a director. Another director they report is Marc Desruisseaux of BC Canada. They also report another "Smith" director (which we know is one of the generic last names the cult's top leadership took when they changed their names). This one is Kim Smith of Huntington Beach, CA. There is also, yet another director reported in these. He is Philip Sherman of Canada. In one of the 990's Angela Smith is listed as a director and secretary, who is paid $5,000. In the 990 for 1997, Tom Hack of CA is listed as a director, as well. You also see the same types of expenses and costs for legal fees, advertising, professional fundraising, employees (Who?), phone bills, leases, director salaries and securities (stocks), as well as interest on investments and cash. http://www.guidestar.org/Documents/1997/330/734/1997-330734917-1-9.pdf http://www.guidestar.org/Documents/1998/330/734/1998-330734917-1-9.pdf http://www.guidestar.org/Documents/1999/330/734/1999-330734917-1-9.pdf http://www.guidestar.org/Documents/2000/330/734/2000-330734917-1-9.pdfhttp://www.guidestar.org/Documents/2000/330/734/2000-330734917-1-9.pdf http://www.guidestar.org/Documents/2001/330/734/2001-330734917-1-9.pdf(reply to this comment)

from steam Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 13:42 (Agree/Disagree?) If anyone knows the name of the retirement home I will look into however you can be absolutely certain that Zerby herself will not be legally tied to any financial operation of the Family. (reply to this comment)

From neez Thursday, February 03, 2005, 14:47 (Agree/Disagree?) It's called Elderhaven. Their homepage is http://hometown.aol.com/elderhaven/page1.html And it has strange similarities to this mob http://www.ageofaustin.org/elderhaven.php I'd check the records around the '86 period. The cult was starting to cover their tracks, & Zerby's parents were relocated to this retirement home.(reply to this comment)

From miriam Thursday, February 03, 2005, 16:32 (Agree/Disagree?) This is an interesting thread as some of us have been discussing the appropriateness of financial disclosure by TF on newdaynews. Even if Zerby didn't purchase the nursing home, do you realize how much it costs to support one parent in a nursing home much less two? Of course, her parents may be on medicaid; but if they aren't, that's A LOT of money.(reply to this comment)

From miriam Thursday, February 03, 2005, 16:39 (Agree/Disagree?) WAAIITT a minute here! I just visited the nursing home site. I misunderstood the situation. This place is run by Zerby's parents, right? This is VERY fishy. Hope someone has some time to do the research.(reply to this comment)

from JohnnieWalker Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 08:06 (Agree/Disagree?) It does sound highly unlikely that she would buy an entire retirement home for her parents. This particular retirement home is, if I understand correctly, run as a not-for-profit charity. If it is, in fact, the case that there was a monetary transaction between Zerby and her parent's home, then perhaps it was given as a donation to cover operational expenses. (reply to this comment)

From Nancy Thursday, February 03, 2005, 11:01 (Agree/Disagree?) More likely it is a 501(C)(3) they funnel money through. It's so easy to become a 501(C)(3) that even companies which make millions do it. What the real set-up is would be easy to discover with little research.(reply to this comment)

From Peter Friday, February 04, 2005, 01:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I have not been able to find any evidence that Karen Zerby paid for her parent's retirement home. Perhaps someone who knows more about this and has access to other sources of information can check this out. Here is something I posted somewhere else a couple weeks ago. According to the Pima County Tax Assessor records, 2501 N. Soldier Trail Rd. was owned by Florence and Eugene Zerby from September 9th, 1986 until December 29th, 1999 when a quit claim deed was signed over to Journeys End LLC which is listed as the current owner. On the 990 forms for Elderhaven, Inc. there is a statement that 2501 N. Soldier Trail is leased from Journeys End LLC which is 80% owned by the Zerbys and 20% by Jeannie and William Deyo (daughter and son-in-law of Florence and Eugene). There is also a statement on the 990s that Journeys End LLC was sold to Elderhaven Inc and that Elderhaven is making monthly payments on a note related to the transaction so it is a bit confusing as to who owns and controls what. There are also personal loans from Eugene Zerby to Elderhaven. According to the Arizona Corporation Commission, Journey's End LLC was incorporated on August 26th, 1999 and is owned by William Deyo (Manager) Florence Zerby (Member) and Eugene Zerby (Member). Despite that statement on the 990 that it was sold to Elderhaven, apparently it is still owned by the Deyos and the Zerbys. Statutory Agent Information Agent Name: JAMES A WHITEHILL Agent Mailing/Physical Address: QUIGLEY TANG & WHITEHILL PLC 2730 E BROADWAY #160 TUCSON, AZ 85716 There is also another Elderhaven in Lubbock, Texas which I think has nothing to do with the Elderhaven in Arizona. According to the Pima County Tax Assessor, the market value of 2501 N. Soldier Trail Rd in 1985 was $305,540, in 1986 (when the Zerbys bought it) - $205,541 and the current 2005 market value is $527,596. I find it quite plausible that the Zerbys were able to purchase the property on their own without any assistance from Karen Zerby. Then again, I am don't know all the details of their situation so I could be mistaken. http://159.233.220.100/apiq/sumsqlvh.cfm?TAXCODE=20537044B&RequestTimeout=120 Elderhaven was recognized as a 501(c)3 non-profit in 1999. Angela Smith joined the board of directors in 2001. The 990 lists her address as being in Irving, Texas while the FCF 990 for the same year lists her address as being in California. (reply to this comment)