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from Not sure Monday, August 08, 2005 - 19:18 (Agree/Disagree?) What is it with sg's that grew up in Australia,I have been reading through and alot not all of them hint at or directly say that sexual abuse never occurred? Oh and Lisa you could of come up with a better occupation title ,WRITER i dont think so. (reply to this comment)

from DevilDogX Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 00:08 (Agree/Disagree?) Good Job lisa,\ don't listen to the other mother fuckers who try to put down your article. James Penn is just an old fart looking for some attention apparently some people say he's smart... we wish!! (reply to this comment)

From Lizzie Saturday, May 20, 2006, 11:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Please, do you really have to use that language to express your agreement? I won't say I don't agree with you but i don't think it's such agreat idea to 'talk' like that. Besides, you just put yourself down to their leve when you act like that.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 10:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude, do you even know the guy? If not, how come you're so quick to judge someone's intelligence without knowing them? If you're going to rudely label someone with such derogatory remarks, please have the guts to put your name behind it. Until then you (and whatever 'we' you are referring to) come across as a stone-throwing coward emboldened only by the cloak of anonymity the internet grants you.(reply to this comment)

from Meathead Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I only know him from what i have read but in my opinion he is doing a good job of exposing the shit that has gone on in the cult and i say good on him. (reply to this comment)

from Meathead Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I only know him from what i have read but in my opinion he is doing a dood job of exposing the shit that has gone on in the cult and i say good on him. (reply to this comment)

from One who blasted James Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 18:48 (Agree/Disagree?) James Penn is a very brave man. I am one of those who left before it was OK to and spoke out when only a couple of others were and we were being slandered for it. I do realize that James wrote the "sh** sheet" on us and wrote the lying statements denying what we were saying. It was of course very hurtful to read those things and that kind of experience can be crazy-making. I would of course have preferred if he hadn't, though I realize the group would have had somebody else do it. Some people in the world were never involved in the kind of wrongs he participated in. In many ways this may be considered a preferable karma by many. However, once what was done had been done and could not be taken back, James exercised his choice in the direction of atonement. In my view -- and consider that I am one of those regarding whom someone suggests below that my response to James Penn seems indicative of a need for anger management -- James has taken a reality that was lamentable and done actions that besepeak a courage that most people with simpler karmas will never have the chance to display. I know a thing or two about courage, and James's is up there with the bravest. (reply to this comment)

From Shackled Sunday, September 19, 2004, 00:16 (Agree/Disagree?) "does anyone besides me think james penn is an idiot?" I think he's a very smart guy. But don't mistake this as admiration or respect for him. I don't personally know him and my opinions were formed from his articles, letter and certain individuals posts about him. IMO, his decision to candidly write about his life in TF was a brave thing. I respect him for that and appreciate it. But I wouldn't go as far as saying it's "up there with the bravest". Apologizing and being honest about it takes guts and he's one of a few FGA's that have done that. But at the same time any moral guy would do that to clear their conscience or to receive some kind of forgiveness. So while I appreciate his honesty, also its helping certain ones finally decide to leave TF, I do not clear him of his participation in abuse and defense of it. And my opinion on him receiving money is already known. He's no hero to me. (reply to this comment)

From One who blasted James Penn Monday, September 20, 2004, 07:27 (Agree/Disagree?) I hear you. While I consider James Penn's speaking out as heroic, he is not my hero either -- I would not want a life modeled after his, and any admiration I have is tempered by my outrage at the circumstances giving rise to his brave choice to tell. Ironically, the reason I see his choice to speak about the evil as a heroic action has to do with the very depth of that evil. It is so wrong and so heartless and the The Family lie is so devastatingly big and the destruction wreaked in people's lives is so wrenching that for somebody who was in his position to admit in the course of exposing takes real courage. When he published his article, there had been nobody backing up Mene's account of her torture who had actually been there. The rest of us may have read the GNs and known that something really horrible was festering in the home of those who held themselves out as the very mouthpieces of God, and we may have known that the callous and brutal treatment we were subjected to emanated from the top because we were read the same letters that entailed the treatment, but The Family insisted that it was a few isolated cases acting on their own and tried to discount our stories. Because the "King and Queen" stayed in hiding, it was easier for them to enslave our loved ones who lacked knowledge of the true cesspool for which they were giving their lives. I have no desire to change the way you feel about James Penn. I feel the way I do because I am one of those who spoke out at personal cost and so I comprehend what it takes and what it means in a way that people who have not been in that position cannot -- even though I also was more directly injured by his actions that most as were those I care about who had done likewise. I have never said that I consider him cleared of his participation. However, I personally do see his actions as putting weight on the other side of the balance -- I think of the deals that accused persons cut with prosecutors all the time when they decide to do something that will assist in avoiding further harm or achieving what justice can be gotten. Also, I agree that morality demands speaking out and making amends. However, there is obviously a choice in the matter seeing as how so many who have been similarly situated have kept silent. So I give him credit for doing the right thing even if it was a moral duty. How many others are doing that duty?(reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Friday, September 17, 2004 - 02:54 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't know that people based their choices on what he said, but I think that what he said coincided with the truth that many people already knew but were not admitting. We had already left the group when the first thing he wrote came out. Someone still in the group sent us Abner's letter to James Penn, and since I had no idea what Abner was talking about and wanted to make a decision based on both sides of the issue, I searched out James Penn's article on the internet. After I read it I was in somewhat of a state of shock, but at the same time he put into words many things I was feeling. After that I decided to search out the British statement by the judge, and reading that article put a definite sealer on my relationship with the Family, in other words, it was finished. I don't think James is trying or has tried to be some sort of hero. He has readily acknowledged his blame and guilt in the lives of the SGAs on this site, and apologised. If he were trying to gain some sort of glory then wouldn't it go to reason he would be writing more profusely? Maybe not, but that's my feeling anyway. I wonder though if you are worried that he will become some sort of 'leader' to the exmember community and be placed higher in importance than should be? I've had that fear as well, I think in some respects we are a paranoid group. For myself, I reject any sort of looking up to an individual or placing them above myself, the same goes for total devotion to a group or total acceptance of any one belief. Probably has to do with being burnt by a cult and its prophet. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, September 17, 2004, 04:55 (Agree/Disagree?) In reading most of the comments about James, one would be forgiven for thinking that he all but has his own cult following amongst the ex-member SGA population. Maybe that isn't the case - or if it is, maybe it wasn't his intention. But, as you said, that is probably a lot of what Lisa isn't happy with. It seems that there are plenty of people ready to defend James Penn, and to attack anyone who dares say anything negative about him... if that's not a cult following, then what is?(reply to this comment)

From Wolf Friday, September 17, 2004, 10:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Apparently you didn’t see the section where many of this site’s participants blasted James for bragging about the money he got from the cult leaders.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 06:46 (Agree/Disagree?) Ne Oublie, a cult following is not to be confused with sticking up for someone who has done a lot to expose the cult and is being called an idiot for doing so. You're a smart guy. You should know that. If I were to go by your definition of the term, then wouldn't I be correct in saying that anyone who comes to the defense of an abuse victim who is getting flack for telling their story is also part of a cult following?(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, September 17, 2004, 08:50 (Agree/Disagree?) JW, I chose my words carefully - to describe the way I see it. The kind of responses that people have given are not just supportive of one's efforts. There is a big difference in the terms, and as I said, I chose my terminology to suit.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 09:07 (Agree/Disagree?) No problem. I see where you're coming from. But I must still disagree with your choice of words. "Cult following" denotes, as the dictionary puts it, obsessive devotion to a person, principle, or thing. You denote that anyone who supports James does so blindly and out of impulse rather than selection. In my opinion, the dirt slinging and name calling may be indicative of anger management issues, but certainly not cultic admiration of the person in question.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, September 17, 2004, 10:47 (Agree/Disagree?) You're making quite a leap in applying my comments to 'anyone who supports James'. My wording was that 'one would be forgiven for thinking that he all but has his own cult following amongst the ex-member SGA population' I did not say that everyone in here was his cult follower.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 11:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Please also recall that you said, "It seems that there are plenty of people ready to defend James Penn, and to attack anyone who dares say anything negative about him... if that's not a cult following, then what is?" Obviously there is no question in your mind that if someone is ready to defend James it can mean nothing else than that they are part of a cult following. I understand that you are saying that not everyone here is his cult follower, but what also understand, from the way you worded your initial post, is that you feel those coming to his defense are doing so without stopping to examine the 'facts' and are siding with James merely because they have idolized him in some way.(reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, September 17, 2004, 12:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Do I really have to take the time to point out to someone of your intelligence that I used two attributes in regards to that definition. I did not say '&/or'. So yes, I do think that those who are both defending AND attacking anyone who dares to be negative about him, meet the definition of 'cult followers'. It is one thing to defend someone's views, and quite another to all but take any perceived attacks against him personally. So no, I do not 'feel that those coming to his defense are doing so without stopping to examine the 'facts' and are siding with James merely because they have idolized him in some way'. But I do think that some are - I hope you can tell the difference.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 13:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I believe I can tell the difference. As I said earlier, my only objection is to your use of the words "cult following", not the defending or attacking. You see, I highly doubt that anyone fits into the category of "obsessive devotion" to any of James' writings. However, if you have someone in mind who fits this category (please don't say it's me :P), I will be glad to take back what I said. Clearly, as per the last paragraph in your above comment I misunderstood what you were trying to say in your first post. I feel this is due to the apparent fact that you and I have a different understanding of the term "cult following." Thank you for clarifying.(reply to this comment)

From who are you talking about? Friday, September 17, 2004, 13:00 (Agree/Disagree?) It would be helpful if you could please list the names of those you think are part of the "cult" following of James Penn. You must have someone in mind, if not, you're just throwing out a generalization and hurtful accusation. If you do feel that some people are guilty, please don't hide behind "some are." They might not even be aware that they are coming across that way, and you owe it to them to keep them in check rather than complaining that he's become some sort of new cult icon.(reply to this comment)

From Shackled Sunday, September 19, 2004, 00:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Those who defend James Penn know who they are and I think "some are" is good enough. They're not his "cult following" but sure did seem very defensive. If you don't know what I'm refering to then you didn't read those posts and I suggest you do if you intend on replying. I also suggest not posting anonymously. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Friday, September 17, 2004, 13:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, that might be easier if people weren't hiding behind titles such as 'who are you talking about'...(reply to this comment)

from Regi Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 13:48 (Agree/Disagree?) I can’t understand why you would say something like this, Lisa. When I read James Penn’s article, “No Regrets,” I was finally able to break out of the brainwashed cycle that I had been in. I never would have left TF at the time that I did had he not had the guts to write that eye-opening article. I never met him, but I definitely owe him a lot. (reply to this comment)

From frisbee Thursday, January 13, 2005, 16:13 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree strongly James Penn sums it up in the title of his article "No Regrets" he did come to realize the error of his ways and is doing the right thing by first, realizing this and second, comming out with the truth i commend him and all that he's done. (reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:43 (Agree/Disagree?) exactully why he annoys me. the fact that people based their choices on what he said.(reply to this comment)

From cassy Friday, September 17, 2004, 11:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Can I please clarify here, most of James' letter is just pure quotation from letters and words right out of Berg or Zerby. That was the powerful stuff. So it's nothing to do with James Penn except for that he compiled it all and added a bit of eye witness accounts as well. However like I already said, most of us knew this stuff anyway, and he only highlighted stuff the the majority of us had buried away in our minds. And if any of us defend him, it's just defending his right to speak. I'm personally sick and tired of people crying "liars" to those who are sharing very personal and painful stories or exposing stuff that higher ups have been desperately trying to keep under raps for years. There is no one here who has a reason or motive to lie, including him. The very fact that he risked exposing himself as well speaks loudly to this fact, and also is the very reason why so many other first gen. don't speak out. The only thing us second generation give him credit for is coming clean, and I have no doubt that many of us secretly hope for the day when more will follow in his footsteps and do likewise.(reply to this comment)

From Wolf Friday, September 17, 2004, 10:30 (Agree/Disagree?) No, you stupid shit, people based their choices on the fact that they KNEW what James Penn said was true, but they’d never seen it all pieced together like that. I was 11 years old when I read “the Last State”. Somewhere inside of me I knew it was wrong to beat Mene and say she would be nothing but a whore if she left the cult, but I tucked it away somewhere in the back of my mind. I was even younger when I read Faith Berg recount that her father started having sexual relations with her when she was 7. It sounded kind of odd, but I was too young to realize how perverted it was. I was 9 and 10 years old when I read Berg’s writings that clearly advocated sexually abusing children. I was 11 and 12 years old when we burned those writings and drew bras on all the naked tits in the cult’s children’s comics. I knew all these things happened, but somehow I managed to push them to the back of my mind. “No Regrets” was an eye-opener, not because it contained anything new, but because it caused me to remember all those things that I had chosen to forget, and face the truth about Berg, Zerby and Kelly.(reply to this comment)

From Sheep Saturday, September 18, 2004, 01:59 (Agree/Disagree?) Shit, this could be the story of my life. I also knew about all those things, I just never stoped to think that there was something wrong with them. Amazing isnt it the power of 'cultism'?(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Friday, September 17, 2004, 07:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Lisa, I feel you are simplifying this issue to the extreme. I doubt that a single ex-member made the decision to leave on the basis of James' letter only. It is much more likely that those who made the final choice to leave after reading it had already been mulling over this decision for a long time prior. However, having said that, even if some people did base their decision solely on the James Penn letter, SO WHAT??? What exactly is your problem with people exercising their right to choose their own path in life? Why do you feel it is so wrong that people might have based one decision on another person's word? - Just one, remember, as opposed to the myriad decisions dictated by the cult's all-encompassing indoctrination and psychological manipulation! After a lifetime of being told what to think, what to believe, what to devote one's entire life - literally every waking moment - to and who to trust implicitly (Berg, Zerby, Kelly, et al), yet having seen only one side of the story and that only as hearsay and with no personal justification, I feel that everyone in TF had a right to see that letter as a way of readressing the balance. (reply to this comment)

From I agree Saturday, September 18, 2004, 18:36 (Agree/Disagree?) The dumb thing is when people devote their whole lives to something very costly based just on what two or three people you never met have said!(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 07:09 (Agree/Disagree?) People in the "real world" base their choices on things they hear and read every day. Does that annoy you too? Probably not. You made your choice to call him an idiot based on what he said and you have every right to make that choice--so do those whose choices oppose yours. It seems too frivolous to get annoyed over what choices people make so I think what your really trying to say here is that you don't believe James stories are true. Right? Am I correct in saying that you think James was lying when he wrote the two articles he did? Have you not had contact with any other former WS members who can corroborate James' accounts? Have you not read Justice Ward's judgment? Perhaps if you did, your tune might change a little.(reply to this comment)

from me thinks your're full of shit Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 13:40 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm sure plenty of people think he may or may not be an idiot, but I definately think you are one. Your logic is flawed and your conclusion irrational. He has spoken out and apologised where others are in denial that abuse has even occurred and that earns him some credit. Your idea that him standing by and watching makes him more guilty than the perpetrators is wrong in that if you defend the perpetrators actions, you are by default defending his own as he was in the same boat they were at the time. There is no taking away from what has been suffered but if more ex's or current members do what he has, we might be one step closer to finding some closure to our pasts. (reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:41 (Agree/Disagree?) to be rather sico-bableish closure will only come from you(reply to this comment)

from Shaka Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 10:40 (Agree/Disagree?) For a writer, you can't spell for shit. (reply to this comment)

From Disgusted Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Write???? Write on my ASS! Lisa, you are trying so hard, you are insulting our intelligence. A writer, with poor sentence structure, grammar, punctuation..... my God, lady, how old are you? 50? 60? or a deluded, kiss ass, suck dick/puss' 2nd Gen. >>>> Undertone message of your post: XFM 2nd Gen's = Don't know shit, are dumb, stupid and uneducated. Because you are posing as such. FUCK YOU! and FUCK THE rest of you! (reply to this comment)

From DevilDogX Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 00:37

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:43 (Agree/Disagree?) thats what spell checks for(reply to this comment)

From Vicky - Even more picky than Shaka : P Thursday, September 16, 2004, 11:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Or Punctuate.(reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:32 (Agree/Disagree?) i know this u know this lets move on(reply to this comment)

from WTF ??? Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 00:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Lisa, what exactly is the point of this article? First off, James Penn joined The Family, which pretty much answers the: "..was he an idiot?" question right there. (And I think he would agree.) The second part of your article reveals some seriously warped reasoning. The fact that the people committing horrors may have thought they were doing the "right thing" is pretty much irrelevant from my point of view. What they did, they did. Their reasons or excuses don't really interest me. What I do know is that James changed his opinions and his life, apologized to us, and has tried to do everything he could to undo the damage that a group that he was a part of had caused. And yes, I do think that makes him better than the people who are still supporting Zerby and Peter, and still covering up their crimes. (BTW, have you even read this article: http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=4&Cat=4&ID=2144 ?) There seems to be an odd slant to all the comments you've made on this site, a sort of passive-aggressive pro-Family attitude. Are you still in the group? (reply to this comment)

From systemite Thursday, September 16, 2004, 09:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Completely agree with you WTF, you couldn´t have made your point any clearer. James Penn was brave enough to say all that he said and to apologize to all of us. And, yeah, Lisa you sound so typical TF... what´s up with that? Are you even allowed in here? (reply to this comment)

From Disgusted Thursday, September 16, 2004, 05:46 (Agree/Disagree?) She probably is! I haven't been too deep into all the articles inside this site. But today I've been reading non-stop for 5 hours and I am boiling. Just a note for Jules: Jules, you have got to find a way of screening people joining this forum. Some proof of credentials, etc. I don't know maybe you design it this way, open for anyone, even those that are still in TF. Reading the articles is fine for anyone, useful and great for those that are still in, but becoming a member and have privileges to post and comment, should only be for us. I personally didn't leave with antagonism towards TF, but, from my reading today of stuff from Maria, Peter and the Jesus they listen to and get messages from, they are all sick and I do feel sick. Think of it, People that had sacrificed, lived among them, fought with, are now bloody-red-apostates-monsters????? - Just because we want the truth? Just a thought, how can they say they are too busy "to win the world", when the very people that was once part of those they were fighting with, they couldn't careless?!?!? Win the World? Hey, I am now part of the world, since when from the time I left TF, did any of the leaders, shepherds that I work closely with ever tried to contact me, see how I was, what was I up to, how was I surviving, damn! - How I was feeling, if they care so much for lost souls!?!?!?! We were "Family"??????!!!!!!, but as soon as you are out, nobody knows you, you are worth less than the lost souls they supposedly love and live for! Tell me, how many of you out there, was ever approached by your Leadership after you left? How many of you was even asked how you are coping? Maybe that all has changed, but goodness, I lived 4 blocks away from the home I left from, a home that was visited frequently by the CROs. - Doesn't the verse, "If you have done it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me"? Come to mind? I read here of a Single Mom, who left and she had to even buy the gas for her car.... I'm sure she was known by plenty of her country leadership, had talks with her, prayed, etc.... I'm sure, none of the leadership even ask, let's say, 2 days after she left, if she had any money for her children's milk.... don't think so!!!!!! Maria, Peter, and Family Leadership, PLEASE........... if you love lost souls, or really want to win the world, - which I doubt really, especially now.... 'cause .... Wait, I recall thinking then, years before I left, why is it that the CROs and you, Peter - (we've met - Japan and Thailand), you guys always had the latest gadgets in computers, walkmans.... nothing too serious, but was just a thought.... back to what I want to say. The majority of us that left, wasn't antagonistic, wasn't against you, wasn't saying anything, I say "wasn't" because now is "is". You have given birth to our "unborn" grief, shame, defiance, and doubts through your means through your outright dishonesty, self-preservation, and sacrilegious ego-building doctrines and calling your "children" names.... I despise you picturing us that way to the rest of the family. What if I write up a whole prophecy about you and your cohorts? Hey, I was great in giving prophecies! Excuse me, something is coming through: "You, the lover of David, the scribe of the oracle of God! I, your miracle working husband, ask thee now to suck my dick, wallow in my semen and I will fuck you crazy! You are now to me, as a whore, who's lost her beauty, blinded, and can no longer see the truth. You have slept with many lovers, your juices have all but run out. You are a dried up source of power, you live in darkness, for you cannot see the light, no more! The light blinds you, for you love darkness, you hide because you are ashamed of what you have become, a worned, used-up, crippled, dried-up, sexually infested whore. The truth of your condition is out and you hate anyone that proves it so. Thee alone cannot see your state, and those closes to you, for you are all alike, a bunch of old whores and pimps. Thou knowest not what others sees thee as. So I, as you wonderful "miracle working husband" will tell thee, will paint it for thee with my words. Because I am now sick of thee, you used up piece of shit, that you have become in my eyes. Stop asking for my dick, there is no more pleasure in you sucking me, only pain, your tongue is dried and full of sores, from all the lies you tell. Your lips are cracked and bloody that it cuts me. Here now is what thou art in my sight: "I see inside a pub full of pimps and whores. The place is dark and only a flickering light is visible in the corner. One of the whores, a beautiful dark brown haired lady, in her late 20's, ushered me in. She brings me to the center of the place, and introduced me to the floor manager, a big burly pimp, who next indtroduce me to the Mamason. A beautiful stunning lady in her mid 50s. She was bold, and almost intimidating. With her complete entourage I was entertain with drinks and food, I was starting to enjoy myself and relax and was having some very strong eye contact with the one that ushered me in, unknown to me this was all captured by the mamasan, who apparently took a liking for me and only wants me for herself. I finally decided to go and take out the dark brown haired lady, when I got up to ask her, the entire place burst into flames, flames flying everywhere, I turned around to see the direction where the flames started from and to my horror, the mamasan and her entourage was a sight I didn't see during the 3 days I was in hell. She(it) was on all fours, almost like a werewolf, with a tongue split in 2, like a snake, it was full of sores and dripping with blood, small creatures were crawling on her tongue, seemingly picking on the sores and dried up tough covering of her tongue. All her breast was sagging on the floor, thin and crippled, her protruding vagina was so visible, the size of a big Indian mango, red with blood mixed with old, drying different mixture of semen. Her face bloated, with dark colors of make-up helplessly trying to hide the infected, oily pimples that completely covered her face, each one the size of a marble, some had worms crawling out of them, yellowish goo oozing out mixing with the make-up. Before I can gather my senses together, she leapt onto the girl beside me and devoured her." End of first part of - Mamasan Monster Whore and Pimps Inc. If you want the continuation of this prophecy, please don't forget to send in 15% of the Total Family Income for the fiscal year of 2004. (reply to this comment)

From To Devildogx Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 09:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe you should read disgusted's comment again because it seems you've missed the point. Or are you still in the family? or lack a sense of humour? Or have never ben in TF? Also the humour is dark, sarcastic and turning the shit round on TK. But more importantly the foul kanguage, which you disaprove off was in context and had a point, unlike yours which has already landed your dogs ass in the trailor park. And what makes you think it's a dude?(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 11:16 (Agree/Disagree?) That's right disgusted, you'd better watch your kanguage before DevikDog here gives you a kong kecture on kinguistic ekkoquence.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 11:24 (Agree/Disagree?) oops...right reply to the wrong person. (reply to this comment)

From DevilDogX Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 00:26

From DevilDogX Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 00:26

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:45 (Agree/Disagree?) im sorry i didnt realize only those with negitive feelings towards their past where allowed on the site.(reply to this comment)

From Shaka Friday, September 17, 2004, 10:34 (Agree/Disagree?) It's not that you're not allowed, it's just that you're totally fucked up if you have positive feelings toward a past of abuse. But nutjobs are welcome! C'mon in!(reply to this comment)

From DevilDogX Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 00:30 (Agree/Disagree?) We can see that cuz obviously they let YOU in!!!!!(reply to this comment)

From Shaka Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 08:39 (Agree/Disagree?) It appears that you have just become a member of this site, and so far the only comments you have made have been to back up lisa or bitch at people who don't agree with her with insults one might hear in an argument between two 5 year olds. Do you have a hard-on for her? From a look at her profile I see she is married so unless this is her husband talking I suggest you stick to beating off to centerfolds.(reply to this comment)

From lisa Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 12:04 (Agree/Disagree?) not my husband(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Friday, September 17, 2004, 08:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Pretty much every person who joins this site who isn't perhaps as angry as others who post here seems to say that very thing for the first few months of interacting on this site. Despite the initial appearance though, there are a number of participants on this site who lean toward your side of the argument. You'll learn after a while that the MO demographic represents a wide spectrum of opinion on the cult, ranging from extreme animosity to apparent amicability. However, it is certainly true that the vast majority are not pro-family by any stretch, and there's nothing wrong with that. You will have to accept that most people who post here will not agree with a rosy view of TF. I don't remember if you've told me how long ago you left TF, but if it was within the last year or two you might find that your views on the 'advantages' of your upbringing may yet change quite drastically. The fact of the matter is that it takes a long time to disengage from the thought processes that were built into us throughout our time in the cult, and especially in the first few years it can be difficult to face the truth about how much it really did screw with our thinking. It will take time for you to build up your own self-identity, wholly seperate from the one prescribed to you by the cult. I am still struggling to assert myself, and in some ways it is getting harder as time goes by. I hope you know that I have no problem with you or your right to post your views, you are entitled to your own opinion after all. (reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 08:45 (Agree/Disagree?) thank you(reply to this comment)

From Disgusted Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Apology: I missed including the transfer details. Please don't forget, to have the 2nd part, a full 15% of your 2004 fiscal year income must be sent to: (P.S.: This really is nothing for you, as we are only asking 15% of what you stole from the poor missionaries of your group, 2nd/3rd generation kids slaving away, clowning, singing and dancing, selling videos and CDs just to live - despite the humiliation they feel - for their parents (1st Gen/ or 2nd Deluded Gen - who have no guts/sense, zombie like mindsets to do anything else with their lives, but exploit their children and abuse them infront of the entire world.) C/O APOSTATE FOUNDATION of FORGOTTEN 2ND GENERATION FAMILY MEMBERS* 69th Floor, Block B, WorldlyWise Now Center Succesful Street, 666, UpMovingOn, XFM County, State of XFam, USA Note: Since we are now all educated and most highly successful individuals, we are bound by law to commit to our words. Upon receipt of your transfer, a posting of the second portion of the"Mamasan Monster Whore and Pimps Inc. Prophecy" will be posted on this site for you, a .doc zipped file will also be available for download, so you can later on study the words of your Lord. FU and MYDIH! *AFF2GFM Pronounced: Af-to-jif-'em (reply to this comment)

From DevilDogX Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 00:43

From sassy Thursday, September 16, 2004, 08:38 (Agree/Disagree?) LOL, I vote this Best prophecy ever :)(reply to this comment)

From lisa Thursday, September 16, 2004, 03:18 (Agree/Disagree?) there is no real point i was just irritated with someone who kept telling me how great he was.(reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Friday, September 17, 2004, 15:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I'd get irritated as well if someone was telling me how great another person is, it's too close to idolizing, and it's something I just can't do since I did it for 20 years of my life and it failed me and now I'm left with nothing from my idol but broken pieces. I think your smart to question the whole 'hero' thing. But also, you shouldn't take the opposite extreme and throw something out simply because of that, you should read what he wrote and then make a choice. You don't have to idolize him in order to accept that what he wrote may be true.(reply to this comment)

From Thursday, September 16, 2004, 06:01 (Agree/Disagree?) yep, compared to other ex WS'ers who haven't done jack to readdress the wrongs they helped commit/commited and who handed down the bullshit rules to other members. (reply to this comment)

From lisa Thursday, September 16, 2004, 03:17 (Agree/Disagree?) no but i would say was pro(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Thursday, September 16, 2004, 10:46 (Agree/Disagree?) Pro what? Pro abuse? Pro corrupt leadership? Pro a lecherous lifestyle? Or perhaps you are pro because you never had it that bad and you can't possibly understand how others can say they did. I like to think of myself as a level-headed, unbiased person and as such, I believe it is only fair to acknowledge some of the good (however little) that has come from the Family's existence. But I also firmly believe that The Family and it's leadership will never produce enough "good works" to make up for even a single crime they have committed.(reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 01:40 (Agree/Disagree?) pro my mother, father, sister and nephews, I couldent live withen the rules etc of the family, and yes alot of stuff went on that still has the power to make me retch at the thought of it. my heart crys for every child who was hurt and i think that "apoligy" by maria was a insult, if i could i would do anything to make it right but i do think many sections of the family have changed, and as long as my family is in the family i cant condem it as all bad and yes i would defend it against anyone. they are my family(reply to this comment)

From moon beam Friday, September 17, 2004, 08:47 (Agree/Disagree?) Just out of interrest, what are the changes that you feel have been made for the good? And if they were so good why didn't you stay and help make them even better? I think it's because you know full well that things can't be changed unless Zerby and Kelly change them, which they won't. Yes they will make changes..they always have,(should I eat an apple with the skin on or not???) but they don't do this for members good, only for their's-control! (reply to this comment)

From moon beam Friday, September 17, 2004, 08:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Thats very understandable. I have had contact with newly left ex-members and so I have heard this before. It is diffficult to condem TF when your whole life has revolved around them and when your family are still very much entrenched. This is scary as you want to break away but you know that more then likely they will not think/love/see you in the same way.You know this from their attitude to all leavers. At some point though this will be overcome by your own need to put yourself first, and though it may always hurt to be the "black sheep" you will slowly learn to deal with it. ( You may in the long run be the one to encourage them to start seeing things from a different point of view.) I have a sister in the same place as you and I can see she desperetly wants to break away, to find her own feet. Our father hasn't done anything overtly abusive by TF's standards to her, But in another sense he is blackmailing her emotionaly to stay, to be the "good one". This may feel great for awhile but is not what she needs. For instance he needs her to help with his never ending supply of babies and more importantly to ease his guilt, and yes disapointment that his other older kids have left and don't agree with him. She see's how he treats us with his condecending tut-tuting and off course dosen't want that directed her way. Because this is TF's main problem as I see it, the fact that all 4 who have left ARE relatively sucsessful, have had no serious accidents and are living our lives to the best of our ability. We are children he should be proud off. But as you know that means fuck all because thats just a disguise for the devil. In reality he doesn't have the ability to see things from any other point of view he's blinded by Zerby et al. This is why when some one like James Penn, who my father must have known, says some home truths about the "great phrophet" which he can personaly attest/relate too, the scales may finally fall. My mom and I made our decision after reading Deborah Davis's book. We knew he was no more a phrophet then the wheather forcast, just a dirty, lucky, perverted, twisted, old man!!! And if he was that, then what right does Zerby and Kelly have to enforce missery and pain and controll over all of you? Good luck in breaking free from the mental chains that bind you. (reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 07:28 (Agree/Disagree?) It seems rather illogical to defend The Family--particularly its leadership--simply because your parents are still affiliated with the group. No doubt, The Family still has some "good" people in it, but, to use a simplistic comparison, you wouldn't eat a whole apple just because it has a tiny good spot on it.(reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 08:43 (Agree/Disagree?) and you wouldent throw away a whole good one just because it had a few bad spots(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Saturday, September 18, 2004, 06:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Please tell me you're not comparing TF to a good apple with a few bad spots! While I agree that the apple metaphor is getting tedious, I have to take extreme exception to your statement. I prefer to see TF as the fungal mycelium that infects the whole apple tree. What you see on the surface is only a portion of the infection. The deeper you look the worse it gets! Ok, enough fungal references for a Saturday morning! More coffee.......(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Friday, September 17, 2004, 09:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Correct. So I take it you believe that most of what the Family stands for and believes is wholesome and good and has not caused harm in any way. Am I right? I really don't relish having to continue to use the metaphoric apple in this discussion, but let me say this: If an apple has bad spots that are not removed (and, I'm sure you will agree that The Family has not taken any significant steps to purge themselves of known abusers, past or present) they will continue to rot the entire apple. There, I said it. Enough talk of apples for one day. :)(reply to this comment)

From lisa Friday, September 17, 2004, 09:40 (Agree/Disagree?) i agree(reply to this comment)

From big bad king kong Monday, August 08, 2005, 23:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Why would anyone trust James Penn? He only left because his importance in the Fam was dwindling. If he had an opportunity to be one of the higher ups in the Fam he'd probably still be there. IMO he's got other motives besides exposing the Fam. I think he wants to get even with Zerby. And is it not hard to imagine that he may be guilty of some past abuses himself? (reply to this comment)