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from xhrisl Friday, November 15, 2002 - 02:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, I guess that D'nile runs thru more than just Egypt. Speaking of which my dear mother was extolling me on all the advantages of being in TF and all the "liberties" that they have doctrinally and by "divine revalation" as compared to most Christians. My reply is simply this...I have more freedom and liberty within myself and my own morality than you in TF who have your morality dictated to you by Zerby & Co. Furthermore, I can drink what I want,as much as I want, eat what I want, and love whomever I damn well please. Heaven is for people who don't have anything here! (reply to this comment)

From Anaik Friday, November 15, 2002, 10:08 (Agree/Disagree?) Amen!!(reply to this comment)

from JohnnieWalker Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 14:12 (Agree/Disagree?) What's really scary is that I can see myself having written something very similar while in the Family. I had no idea back then and thought that I was convinced of my beliefs. But in all fairness, whoever wrote this deserves to be in the Family and the Family deserves them. If he/she is happy in the Family, then let them be in it. Maybe someday they will see another side and have the chance to re-establish their convictions. He/She also seems to overlook the fact that although the younger generation would not be as manipulative as the first generation, many of the first generation are still in positions of leadership and the Family will not change as much as the second generation would like it to, until the first generation has kicked the bucket. If the Family lasts that long, I would be interested to see if the second generation will indeed do a better job than the first. (reply to this comment)

From Albatross Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 14:44 (Agree/Disagree?) If the second generation manages to avoid sexualy abusing their children, or puting them in harsh re-indoctrination camps, they will be off to a far better start then our parent's generation. I agree with you JW, The FGA leadership will never fully trust the SGA. (even those in CO leadership positions) There is an understandable logic to that distrust. It's hard to fully trust a generation that one has molested and oppressed. Daniel(reply to this comment)

From Albatross Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 16:55 (Agree/Disagree?) And one more thing: TF will not be a classless society until WS and TF come out from their "Selah" hidding places, until what Zerby says has about as much weight as the words of the average home shepherd, until the titles: King, Queen, Mama, and such are expunged from TF's vocabulary. We have a current Geo-political comparisson: The 100% pro Saddam vote is looked upon as a joke in the rest of the world. Saddam's claiming that the Iraqis live in a democratic paradise does not make it one. The Family squirms under the label "CULT." My advice to those who dislike that category is "change your cult-like behavior, make amends for your past wrong doings, and have the guts to face your victims." Zerby...I know some of this info gets passed on to you. Read this: You stood by and allowed Berg to molest his own grandaughter. You don't think there is "anything wrong with a little sweet and loving fondeling of a child." You have turned a deaf ear to the many many hearbreaking tales of sexual abuse that happened under your watch. You instituted the Victor programes. You have perpetuated the reverance of a sick and perverted drunk, Berg, your late husband and mentor. It is now time for you to pay for thoses crimes and abuses. Don't drag the rest of Tf along with you. My father has chosen to stick with you despite the horrible stories of abuses that he must be aware of. Take him, and anyone else who is willing to go down in your sinking ship. Your day is coming Zerby, your victims will have their justice. MARK MY WORDS. Daniel(reply to this comment)

From Elsie Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 15:37 (Agree/Disagree?) Incisive comment, Daniel. For the SGs still in who feel you must devote their life to a cause for it to be worthwhile, wouldn't be better of inventing something from scratch? Create something totally different? TF is the FG's creation, and as such, IMO it has the characteristics they gave it. It is built of their building blocks. I will make no secret that I think it is fundamentally flawed. It is the FGs' baby and the "mistakes" the letter's author refers to were an integral part of TF; when they were carried out they were orthodoxy and not mistakes! The abuse was systemic, not an aberration in that milieu. Isn't one of the central tenets of TF religion the high regard for David Berg? Then Maria, and I guess now Peter too, from what I have heard? These people created the monster and instituted the monstruosities! I don't know what kind of mental backflips people still in TF must be doing to come up with such doozies as "many people got used and even abused at times under the dictatorial-like rule of PAST leaders." Another zinger: "The good side of the Family is that we learn from our [parents] mistakes..." Oh you have? I'll bet some of the Nuremberg defendants learned from their mistakes too! The main thing I have learned from "our parents'" mistakes is that TF sucks. And being regularly raped as a child sucks. And having panic attacks at minor stresses because of having suffered severe and chronic trauma sucks. My sky-high therapy bills suck. NOt being cared for by parents because they think TF is the only way sucks. I could go on but I won't. Blast me for being angry, but you might as well save your breath because I would consider myself insane if I were not angry. The author says: "the mentality has changed quiet a bit and we aren't the pawns of leaders" [well how fabulous! what a PRIVILEGE and a luxury to be allowed you! Do they give you candy bars too? i would be soooo grateful; just don't be too subservient in return because then you are being a pawn after all!] "...but more a communal surrender to serve the Lord together and all be on the same level." Oh boy am I glad I am out! "Communal surrender" in a creep-infested society...to "all be on the same level"...eeeew. This just in: communism was a flop. When is this Berlin wall coming down? (reply to this comment)

From Elsie Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 15:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I meant to write: "For the SGs still in who feel you must devote *your* life to a cause for it to be worthwhile, wouldn't *you* be better *off* inventing something from scratch"(reply to this comment)

from ahem... Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 03:23 (Agree/Disagree?) What good side of the Family ? (reply to this comment)

from E.W.S. Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I had a friend when I was in the F. She was as normal as the rest of us (if that can ever be called normal); not outstandingly "cool" but not a dork. She went to Zerby's home. I met her about two years later. She couldn't say much about her recent activities, but relished telling me of her exciting responsibility as the home wine cupboard deacon. She was tickled pink telling me how everyone cozy's up to her all week so she'll give them first dibs on the wine of their choice, and how everyone has "soo much fun" getting all giddy while sticking to the maximum allowance. Woopie! Even I--who am not the poster girl for coolness--had to cock my head and wonder what had happened to this friend of mine. I imagine that apart from this her day consists of 2 hours of word time, 1 hour of LJ time, 1 hour of prophecy time, 8 hours in front of a monitor working, 10 minutes or so of praise time, 30 minutes of prayer vigil, 1 1/2 hours eating, and, oh, let's see--2,1,1,8,1/6,1/2--a little over 14 hours fending off loving old men. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she could return to within acceptable perameters if she ever chose to leave the F. Meanwhile she's Livin' La Vida Loca and sipping her quota of wine in the bed of love with the Zerb! I maintain contact with quite a number of members--my own brothers and sisters included--and none of them are happy or proud of what they do. Although some of them try to hide it, they all envy their peers who've left. People I thought were cool when I was in now hem and haw around me. Most are looking for a life line; a "way of escape". There are a few that are vocal about their support of doctrine and their spiritual standing. Basically they're so stinky they'd be unwelcome at a garbage dump. It can't be that I'm the only one who notices how hard they're trying to convince themselves. Their SR stench works to keep away voices that might fuel their own doubt. Kind of like being homophobic: the louder the protest, the stronger the urge. (reply to this comment)

From -- Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 02:03 (Agree/Disagree?) or maybe they're so brainwashed that their their own worst enemy and they're psyche. (littereally) can't take the pressure anymore. Their defense mechanisims are up high. They can't allow themselves to be vulnerable which is what you need to execpt the truth about reality.....reality hurts!(reply to this comment)

From -- Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 02:04 (Agree/Disagree?) "accept"(reply to this comment)

from Scram Already Stone Age Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 22:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Here's a quote a politically progressive friend of mine sent me. It's about bush, but as I read it I had to keep reminding myself that it's not about Zerboid and Hamsterdam. "I recently read in the newspaper that one of the characteristics biologists look for in determining whether or not an animal is a parasite is that if the animal is a parasite, it loses, after centuries of evolving, many of its characteristics--becoming grublike, it becomes paler and smoother and slipperier and blanker and blander and dimmer and duller and more and more featureless the longer it lives by sucking the life out of other animals, its uselessness strips it of its specificity, I read this in the New York Times and then I turned the page and there he was! Proof that the biologists are right!!! [George W. Bush,] no eyes no lips no neck no vocal inflection no brains, his linguistic skills slipping down the same sinkhole as his ability to chew a pretzel without pressing his vagas nerve and passing out before his two apparently unconcerned dogs--there he was, the characteristicless unPresident unelected unmandated undesired unappetizing unacceptable bloodgrizzled fratboy schmuck of a parasite, and I choose to believe that, although he is dangerous, he is a thing of the past ( and things of the past are always dangerous when encountered ambling about in the present!)...." --Tony Kushner, ranting in the park. (reply to this comment)

from Elsie Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 22:09 (Agree/Disagree?) "Yes, there was a lot of hurt and many people got used and even abused at times under the dictatorial-like rule of past leaders." So when did Maria and Peter resign? (reply to this comment)

from CockedAndLoaded(Really Loaded!) Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 21:26 (Agree/Disagree?) You friend says not to worry that the Family might hurt us again. Well that's a load of crap! I hope they try, my trigger finger is getting itchy. (reply to this comment)