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from Inger Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 01:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Hej Katarina! Jag har aldrig varit med i TF men jag har läst och hört väldigt mycket. Jag tycker du ska sträcka på dig och vara stolt över att du tagit dig ur, och att du är mamma till så många barn! Jag skulle gärna försöka hjälpa dig att få den hjälp du och din familj behöver, du får gärna maila mig inger_karlssson7@hotmail.com Hälsningar Inger (reply to this comment)

from oden77 Monday, October 18, 2004 - 01:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Hej Katarina! Allt väl? Jag läste din artikel och tyckte att det var väldigt intressant. Jag bor i stockholm. Jag lämnade Familjen i 1996. Om du vill ringa mig någon gång så kan du slå nummer 0737040686. Så kan vi snacka lite mer. (reply to this comment)

from johnsie Monday, May 24, 2004 - 00:12 (Agree/Disagree?) I think many people that were in the group and left years ago have come to exer sites. Perhaps you can try exfamily.org to find people that are of varying ages from first generation. I am from first generation and left in 82. I believe that when a person leaves with children there is so much focus on surviving and taking care of your kids, often for the first time as far as full time care, that it takes some people years to reach an exer board and start looking at the past from people that understand. Even though my kids were never sexually abused, I never allowed it and left as it was being introduced where I was, there was so much neglect via the cult we were in. I don't believe that most of us that joined as teens before the FFing started were attracted for wrong reasons. We lived in a time when there was much searching going on and the family presented itself as loving and having the answers. I would have to be honest and say that i was a very insecure and angry teen and was a good mark for recruiting. So I did join. Before ever finding the boards, I went through a lot to get help for myself and then went through what was necessary to apologize to my kids for not giving them the things they deserved. And for the separations that occurred even though they went against my will. My fear was that to rebel would cause me to be separated for good or for a lengthier time. I am so glad you got out. My oldest two sons hated me for awhile. Mostly for the poverty and struggles involved in getting out with no support. Readjustment to my country of origin was very hard for us all. What I can tell you is that they are all successful now and it was a long process to build relations with them. I am now very close to two of them. One of them is close to no one. The important thing, I believe is to not negate their reality, but to do this, you do need to do some healing yourself too. I am glad I can say that I never did and never would molest any child. And they were not a meal ticket and never had to take care of other kids or do labor in the family. They never knew the terms "uncles" or "aunties" and never heard of the Heaven's Girl letters. Still it was hard to deal with the separations and the poverty, and their anger was understandable. My youngest just got married and I am so glad to be a part of their lives. They went to school, got GEDs and then scholarships and are now all professionals. I am very proud of them. To all you second generation adults, i am very sorry for you that are missing those contacts with safe parents or who were not protected from abuses. I did protect mine as much as I could and got in lots of trouble leading to me getting out. I hope the best for you as you continue with your lives and careers. Does anyone here know of a second gen adult named Cherub who was daughter of Eli and Jerusha? Or her brothers Eric and Nathaniel? I hope they are out. (reply to this comment)

From nobody Monday, May 24, 2004, 02:38 (Agree/Disagree?) That’s the first time I’ve ever heard an FG be honest about why they joined. That in itself is most probably why you have been able to make progress at leave that part of your life behind. I don’t think any kid with half a brain will believe a word that comes out of their parents’ mouths while they are stubbornly claiming that they joined for the better of mankind. (reply to this comment)

From Words a cheap Monday, May 24, 2004, 00:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe your children have now forgiven you because you have earned their trust and proven that you are really their mother not just the woman who gave birth to them. (reply to this comment)

From johnsie Monday, May 24, 2004, 16:02 (Agree/Disagree?) I was always their mother. I always will be. I did protect mine within the family when things started and got out at that point. The separations were unavoidable. So in that area i did not protect them. To protest would have caused losing contact with them altogether. We had to start over from scratch in America which was probably harder than had we been European and left because there was more social support in the real world in those countries. When I left, the info on the Davidito books had already been acquired by CAN before Scientology took them over and changed their name. I verified to them, locally, that it was from the group. I was severely dealt with from within just prior to leaving because of my resistance and refusal to do things others were doing. I was not the only mother that did that, but only one other mother did that. We were both dealt with.(And this was being dealt with for running out of the room after having been dealt with for lack of spirituality and not knowing what was to occur. It was the first and last "orgy" that I witnessed and the women came in stripping from the bathroom. My children (very young) and the other mother's child (also very young) were all in the room. We grabbed our kids up and left because we could not deal with them being spectators to this. And also because we did not want to be a part of it. I had the letter "The Girl Who Wouldn't read to me and basically was told that God would kill me for offending the least of these my little ones..in tongues and prophecy. I was at the edge and about to fall over at that point. Had we not been collecting funds to go to Asia, and had I not TAKEN the funds I raised and had access to my kids at that time and then GOTTEN OUT, I may have been stuck there for longer because I did not want them spirited away elsewhere. Although there with no known safe assistance upon return to the states, I had to get help for us all and I did. But we lived in poverty for quite some time. That is a lot of what I had to look at and say to my kids that I wished I had the extended family (as in real relatives) and job skills, education to give them what they deserved growing up. I think the hardest thing for a parent to do is to hold their tongue and not explain why they did what they did or did not do what they did not do, or not tell their kids "But I did do this..." because their kids deserve the space for absolute validation of what they have experienced and gone thru. That is what I did with mine. I listened and I did not excuse. I validated them. But I did have to learn how to do this. And I did have to get help for myself to do this. The best help I got was via people familiar with women's issues and domestic violence. Even though a cult experience is unique, the parallels to domestic violence situations and to issues of assault, battery, rape, incest, etc. are areas therapists they refer to people are familiar with. Now that people are getting out in greater numbers, there are places like this that provide free counseling for people that have been abused, and what occurs in many of their family's of origin are not uncommon with experiences many have had in the family. One thing I have now is family and we are very close. I am so very glad for that. I hope that for you that have not had this reconciliation or do not want it at all due to too much sewage under the bridge, or due to abuses that are unforgivable for you, that you have at least developed family of choice. I am glad you have each other. (reply to this comment)

from johnsie Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 23:53 (Agree/Disagree?) (reply to this comment)

from neez Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 14:36 (Agree/Disagree?) So do you think you'll have grown up by the time have grandkids? (reply to this comment)

from itsxena2u Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 21:23 (Agree/Disagree?) ok, so let me get this straight. To all you parent and FGA haters out there: let me ask you something. Is your past so horrible, so terrible and so traumatizing that no matter what your parents do to try to make up for their past mistakes they will never be forgiven? C'mon now! We may have suffered in the past but its time to let it go! Others have it a whole lot worse than we do. Many of you seem to think that SGAs are the only victims of TF's abuse! YOU ARE WRONG!! TF used fear tactics on EVERYONE! There were a lot of parents who suffered in silence as they watched their kids being unfairly punished. Yes, they should've done something about it, but they were just as scared as we were! That is what brainwashing is all about. I'm not standing up for the abusers and pedophiles. But what I'm trying to say is that TF's victims came in all ages. Sure, the younger generation got it worse, but I've heard of some very abusive stories from adults as well. The fact that this mother is coming on to this website knowing that it is visited mainly by SGA's, admitting her mistakes and fears, looking for answers and seeking help only to be treated with anger and rudeness is A REAL SHAME! It seems a lot of us haven't quite grown up yet. We'll always look to TF and our parents to put the blame on when things don't work out in life. Even my boyfriend who has never been in TF tells me that I need to move on with my life. That the past is the past. Everyone has deep, dark, disturbing secrets. But its up to each and every individual to decide how they are going to let it affect their lives. We all have our "bad days" when we are not in the best of moods. Lord knows I've been rude too. But being constanly angry at our parents is not going to make things any better. Is hurting them gonna heal the wounds? I don't think so. (reply to this comment)

From Shackled Sunday, May 23, 2004, 18:19 (Agree/Disagree?) "There were a lot of parents who suffered in silence as they watched their kids being unfairly punished. Yes, they should've done something about it, but they were just as scared as we were!" These parents who proudly proclaimed to be Christians and the elite of God should do better than that. We were scared and abused; they got scared, as you say, and didn't do their "God Given" responsibilities. There is a difference, the 2 don't relate and can't be compared. "That is what brainwashing is all about." Our parents willingly allowed themselves to get brainwashed. We on the other hand had no choice. Our parents at any time could of left for our sake and faced the reality of this world. But their own blind selfishness made them choose a false belief that forsaking us was God's will. When one is desperate enough to believe something, even a lie, he'll find a way to convince himself. "We'll always look to TF and our parents to put the blame on when things don't work out in life." For me personally this is so far from the truth. I never blame what I don't have or know I could've been on my parents. I've told them how much their selfishness has cost me. I gave them a choice between me and their cult and they chose the cult. My Mom called me up and asked if I hated her. I told her I gave her a choice and she chose the cult so my life is no longer her business. I didn't go as far as to say that to me they are not my parents; I said what I needed while trying not to hurt her. They can't have and won't get, what they consider, to be the best of both worlds. (reply to this comment)

From Wolf Saturday, May 22, 2004, 22:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Please don’t start this discussion again … it’s been re-hashed over and over again on this site.(reply to this comment)

from Joe H Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 19:44 (Agree/Disagree?) "What to do?" Simple question, easy answer: go to NDN.org and take your hideous English with you! Ta-ta! (reply to this comment)

From advice Saturday, May 22, 2004, 22:33 (Agree/Disagree?) I have a better idea: Stay. Ignore JoeH. Post in your native language from now on. JoeH appears to be unaware of the fact that more than 3/4 of the 1.5 billion people who speak English, do not speak it as a first language and are thus more prone to commit grammatical errors. He lives in his own mock totalitarian world where mastery of English grammar reigns supreme. Ignore him. If your future posts are in your native language, you will have effectively evaded JoeH's tiny grasp. Those with an interest in what you have to say should have no trouble putting an online translator to good use.(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Monday, May 24, 2004, 11:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Actually, I live in the United States, where mastery of English grammar is non-existent. I can't claim to have mastered it myself, but I at least make an effort, which is more than I can say for most of you peasants who seem to be so proud of your lack of education.(reply to this comment)

From nobody Tuesday, May 25, 2004, 03:02 (Agree/Disagree?) Once again Jo (sorry Jo with an E) Fuck off. You’re always going on people’s grammar and writing skills, it’s getting old and boring. Just because you can spell and write doesn’t make you a genius. I have noticed that although you greatly despise people (almost as much as your feminine side) whom grammar and writing skills are not par with you own you seem quite content to rip off things that they say and make them own using the correct grammar, of course. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Sunday, May 23, 2004, 07:10 (Agree/Disagree?) True, but JoeH is also a self-described pedant. Gotta give him credit for at least recognizing this tedancy! Native english speakers are not the only ones who get pissed when people butcher their language. I took a year of Italian from a professor who would make our Grammar Nazi look like freakin' Ghandi!(reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Saturday, May 22, 2004, 20:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Joe, Here's a book for you: Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation by Lynne Truss. It will make you feel better about the pain of double and triple commas. A serious and very funny book; best seller in England I believe.(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Sunday, May 23, 2004, 03:02 (Agree/Disagree?) I recently read an article pointing out a fair number of grammatical mistakes in that book. If the experts can't get it right I guess there's not much hope for the rest of us...(reply to this comment)

from Perry Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 13:15 (Agree/Disagree?) I just wanted to tell you that I can relate to many of the feelings you expressed. I am 48 and I too was 16 when I joined in 1972. I disagree with the simplistic comment below that we must have had negligent parents. That is simply an ignorant assumption that does not take into account all the contextual factors that led us to join at such a young age, which I understand was not all that common back then. Berg had several years in which to thoroughly indoctrinate our still developing adolescent minds. I had not yet developed strong critical thinking skills so it was easy for them to break down my resistance to their message. Moreover, the group recruited me under false pretenses as there was no full disclosure of all their doctrines, keeping the "strong meat" from me until I was indoctrinated to accept their teachings as "god's word". Also, I had no idea there was somebody at the top orchestrating the whole organization until many months into my indoctrination. When I left 13 years ago my approach was to bury my past, try to forget and start completely over. In that respect I agree with the suggestion below to return to your childhood as a way of discovering your self. I had dropped out of high school to join, so logically I returned to school. I got my high school equivalency certificate and then went to university, earning two degrees over the next ten years. Through that process I finally began to think for myself again, but as I've discovered recently that was only half the battle. As you so correctly say, "you can put the lid on and try to forget, living your life and going on, but sooner or later it will come back to you." Several weeks ago I finally stopped to face my past. I've been reading everything I can on this and similar sites, which has allowed me not only to catch up on events of the last 13 years, but has also given me new insights into what happened to me. Though it's perhaps too early in this process for me to self-diagnose, I think I was psychologically raped ("love-bombed"?). I have absolutely no training in psychology so perhaps I'm way off base here. I'm still exploring all this so I think others with more experience will have better practical suggestions for you. I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in feeling the things you do. (reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Saturday, May 22, 2004, 15:59 (Agree/Disagree?) It was my reference below to neglectful parents. Having come from neglectful parents I can sometimes recognize its effects in others. Not always, of course, which was why I phrased my comment as a question. I would like to ask you the same. What exactly were the contextul factors that led you to join at such a young age? (reply to this comment)

From * Saturday, May 22, 2004, 15:32 (Agree/Disagree?) Spare us the personal testimony; we were force to hear enough of them while growing up. Somehow they all are quite the same. The main factors are always, pissing off parents, psychedelic drug taking, looking for an easy way out, and traumatic events. Whatever your reasons for joining you still did it. You still sat back and watched your children grow up in poverty, set you kids out to raise money for your home and allowed your older children to raise the younger ones while you were off breeding. The reasons that you now give yourself to justify what you have done to us are not good enough. The struggles that you are now faced with are nothing compared to what you have put us through. There are plenty of sites for your generation; please save your personal testimonies for them, we’ve had quite enough of selfish hypocritical Baby Boomers who feel the world owes them a favour. (reply to this comment)

From energika Saturday, May 22, 2004, 17:55 (Agree/Disagree?) well I can understand that you are angry whit us adult,parent,,that have put you children thru this hell,,but if I had known that it was a destructive cult I joined,,and that I become manipulate,,that they lied to me,,well I should have never joined,,and yes to your happiness I think,,you should know that I suffer,,suffer for my children and what I have done to them ,,that I can never undo,,but do you think I did it in hate,,that I and all of the parent did it because we hate our children??and that we want to hurt them,,do you,,that was the reason for my comments here,,to hear what you young ones feel and think,,so I maybe can help in any ways,,if I could,, I should like to have all the cult in the world forbidden,,and all of the cult leaders in prison,,yes I have been angry to,, for many years,,angry for knowing that I have been growing up on a lie,,giving my kids a lie to belive in,,and then when we got out,,to say to them,,forgive me my children but I did you wrong,I lied to you,,and now you have to learn everything from start and I cant help you,,ofcourse they are angry whit me,,and they shall be that,,but one thing I cant do anything about and that is that I am their mother,and I can either take my life in sorrow or trying to live my live as honest I can,,and to try to do my best to help them in any ways,,that was the reason I come here to this site,,to ask you all whit help,,but maybe it was to much to ask for,,,forgive me.(reply to this comment)

From nobody Sunday, May 23, 2004, 00:21 (Agree/Disagree?) If you are to look at laws relating to children in your native country I’m sure that there are many that anyone who had children in the cult have broken. TF had an obsession with youth, and yes many of the adult did hate there children. Any teenage girl who was somewhat attractive was automatically in trouble for some trumped up charge. They are two times in one life that they are helpless one is in childhood and the other is in old age. Just because you are now getting old and worrying about being on your own doesn’t suddenly make you a nice person. What you have done to us was not just wrong it was criminal all of our parents should be grateful that we haven’t taken you each to court and made you pay for ‘your sins’. The brainwashed theory didn’t excuse the Nazis and it doesn’t excuse you. (reply to this comment)

From Shackled Sunday, May 23, 2004, 18:21 (Agree/Disagree?) When and where were the somewhat attractive girls automatically in trouble? Where I was at it was always the boys and unattractive girls.(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Monday, May 24, 2004, 00:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Sexy girls were generally welcomed into the predominantly male leadership circles much more easily (Anyone remember ever seeing a really unattractive 'secretary', 'VS' etc? -- If there were any they were usually born into it) BUT... Sexy girls generally suffered a fair bit at the hands of female overseers who seemed to take out all their frustrations, depression, PMS and God knows what else on those who threatened them in the looks/youth dept. (reply to this comment)

From nobody Monday, May 24, 2004, 00:25 (Agree/Disagree?) True it might have depended where you were and who was in charge of you, but where I was it the girls who were the prettiest who go in trouble and had to spend lots of personal time with their male shepherds. There are three girls, one of which is no longer with us, whom I recall this happening to. A lot of adult women really hated anyone who was younger and prettier that they were. If there were ever any half decent provisioned clothes around, we were never allowed to wear them. To be fair anyone who was a little different and didn’t fit into what was then the norm was made to conform. The teenage boys who were in trouble usually were the ones with some personality. I think TF was terrified of loosing control. I do remember being fourteen an adult slapped me, when I returned the favour I remember the look of terror in her face. She never did that again. As has been proven our parents needed us a hell of a lot more than we needed them. They are manipulating and selfish, now that they no longer have the fear factor over us, they are trying to use the guilt factor, sorry we are not buying. They got themselves into this mess so they can get themselves out of it. As for support from us, my parents will get as much love and support that they gave me while growing up. (reply to this comment)

From Shackled Monday, May 24, 2004, 18:42 (Agree/Disagree?) I think I was around 8 years old and it didn't quite click in my brain that the attractive girls were being abused, physically and mentally, for their looks. A friend recently reminded me and your comment is correct. By the time I started thinking for myself it was those in the dance teams that got treated like royalty and everyone else like shit. Also, my older sister is very attractive and got lots of benefits and attention. I was quite jealous of her for this. She says it also gave her a hard time but I never believed her. Maybe she was right and it was just too hard for me to accept (reply to this comment)

From nobody Sunday, May 23, 2004, 00:23 (Agree/Disagree?) *their(reply to this comment)

From Wolf Saturday, May 22, 2004, 22:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, this is the wrong place to come for sympathy. It’s like a former KGB officer going into a zek discussion group and asking how he can “get a life”. That said, I don’t see you as a “bad” person, my parents are great people and it’s sad that they wasted so many years in the cult. Yes, they allowed themselves to be duped and their kids suffered for it. They have rightfully accepted the blame for this. Yet, I believe in forgiveness. Not automatic forgiveness – forgiveness to those who admit to the damage they cause and are trying to undo it. My anger is directed towards Berg, Zerby, Kelly, individual abusers, and everybody who knows about Berg’s abuses and remains in TF. The only members I don’t despise are poor little natives who are clueless to what they’ve gotten themselves into.(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Sunday, May 23, 2004, 07:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Wolf, you seem to be changing your tune as of late. If I recall correctly, you were much more sympathetic to TF when I first showed up on this site about a year ago. If I am wrong, I apologise, if not, then welcome to the fold! lol(reply to this comment)

From Wolf Sunday, May 23, 2004, 20:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Have I really changed my tune? I didn’t realize I was sympathetic to TF as an organization. I still am sympathetic towards newer members who never saw the worst s-t and who think they are in TF to help others. I wish I had access to some of the old publications like “Little Girl Dream”, “The Last State”, “Sex with Grandma”, etc. I would love to show some of the newer members what Berg was really about.(reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Saturday, May 22, 2004, 16:40 (Agree/Disagree?) I can't think of a single reason or excuse a parent could give to explain why it was a good idea to raise children the TF. Your anger is well placed, right on and I applaud you for it! No matter what happens to a person in life they cannot use their life experience to excuse their bad behavior. People can and do rise above terrible childhoods, as we all know very well! Here we have 2 examples of 16 year olds taken in by the cult, manipulated and used for much of their adult lives. I feel strongly that they have a responsibility to correct damage they did while participating in the cult even if they were children when they chose to join. But two other parties are also responsible and deserving of your anger: the cult leaders for taking in underage children and the parents of Perry and Katerina, et al, who let their children become victims. Victims, who are responsible for the damage they have done to SGAs and probably to each other, but who are also victims. FGAs who joined at age 20 or older I hold to a higher level of responsibility. (reply to this comment)

From nobody Sunday, May 23, 2004, 03:14 (Agree/Disagree?) At least you take some responsibility for what you have done. And are trying to make life a little easier for your grandchildren, there’s not much that can be done about what happened in the past, but we are sick of having to be the grown ups with our parents. My parents continuously ask advice from my older sister who not only had here childhood taken for her but now has the burden of ‘advising’ our parents. They are more than happy to send their children off to live with her when things aren’t going well. They constantly complain that they have been parents for so long, which seems ironic as we were the one raising our younger brothers and sisters when we were still children. I was 11 when my mother left a 6 month old baby in my care for 3 months. Maybe FG are riddled with guilt, but sticking ones head in the sand and complaining that things are hard, and that they are lonely is sickening. For once it would be nice to see them act like adults, admit they were wrong and act like parents to our younger brothers and sisters. As for the being too poor to give money to your children, FG members were happy to tithe for the last 20+ years at our expense, the least they can do now is put that money aside for their older children. As for the excuse of them only being teenagers when joining. Most of us were around that age when we left.(reply to this comment)

from Vicky Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 13:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Having joined at age 16 I think that there are probably parts of you that never made the transition from child to adult - TF keeps its members in a perpetual state of childish dependence in order to exert as much influence as possible in their lives. So, my advice would be for you to try to connect with the child in you in some way, in order to work through some of the issues left over from your own childhood which in turn will allow you to make peace with your vulnurable inner child, leading to greater strength within yourself and a feeling of readiness to face the world on your own two feet. While I agree with the general point made by Big Sister below, I do not think that putting yourself second for the foreseeable future is a workable solution. In fact, I believe that to build a healthy relationship with your children you need to be happy, centred and emotionally stable first. People cannot exist as parents only and you need an identity that is separate from the responsibility and sacrifice of being a parent. As a mother you are constantly giving out of your emotional reserves (plus, in this case, trying to deal with the repercussions of family life in your own and your children's lives) - If you continue to do this without sorting out your own issues it will in the end become emotionally and psychologically exhausting for you and you will one day fall apart. My advice is going to sound simplistic and probably a bit silly to some people but I will say it anyway: Try to get back in touch with the child in you and start fulfilling some of her needs. That way you can begin to heal the wounds that she (and you) suffered through all the years. Take up a hobby that you particularly enjoyed as a child. It should be as pure and simple as possible - Don't try to choose an 'adult' subject because you feel it would be silly to do something childish. Think back to what used to make you really happy when you were a child and set aside a regular time (at least once a week if possible) to engage in that activity again. It could be drawing, singing, riding a horse, watching disney cartoons, etc. But while you are doing it, try to let your inner child out to play again. Forget about being a mother, forget about the needs of others, forget about your responsibilities and anything that is troubling you. Let your mind wander. Yes, you have a responsibility to your children, but your biggest responsibility is to yourself. (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 13:26 (Agree/Disagree?) I wanted to add that yes, i think you should start up a support group for other ex-fam's. It is hugely important to be able to talk with people who understand, I'm sure you know that. I think that getting together to talk once in awhile will be extremely helpful. (reply to this comment)

From nobody Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 00:55 (Agree/Disagree?) I’ll be very careful about letting your children hang around Ex COG. If they abused children once what is to stop them for doing it again. Why do Ex COG member all seem to have a ‘peter pan’ notion that they are still teenagers? Sorry to break it to you but from the second you had children you should have become an adult. Quit feel sorry for yourself and take some reasonability for you own actions. (reply to this comment)

From nobody Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 01:00 (Agree/Disagree?) *your (reply to this comment)

from Big Sister Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 11:12 (Agree/Disagree?) In my opinion one harmful effect of TF's lifestyle/worldview was forcing parents to put their children second to their so-called career. The result, as you can read everywhere here, was chronic neglect and abuse. Many people here are angry (correctly so) because their parents simply were not there for them. So, what's the right thing to do now? You ask how to get a life and get to know yourself. I think the right step is to put yourself second for a good long while. You have a 9 year old and one other at home still. Make sure they have your full undivided attention, support and focus in the things that they need-not what you need. Nevermind love. Of course you love them. That will show. It's not about money; you have what you have. What they need is your attention so they can grow strong in who they are. They need to see that you can be an adult. That is, some one who can defer her needs for the good of another. If you can, how about, "I made mistakes. I am sorry. I am very sorry. And here's the ways I can fix it." And then you go back and do, for your children or grandchildren, anything you can to make their lives better- FOR THEM. Maybe your older children are so angry they don't want to talk about it right now. Maybe you can only help by making a small college savings fund for your grandchildren's futures. And what about you? Where were your parents that they let you go off and join a cult (or whatever you called it at the time) at age 16? I would have to guess that you came from neglectful parents or some kind of bad situation yourself. In any case, you are now a parent in charge of getting it right for your children. You are only 43 with many years ahead of you to do the right thing. (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 09:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I say don’t beat yourself up over your past mistakes. Do the best you can with what you have now, and try to make things up to your kids to the best of your ability. (reply to this comment)

from a girl Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 07:50 (Agree/Disagree?) I think sometimes that we have it easier than our parents. It's hard to forgive them for joining the family and messing up our lives as a result. But when my parents left TF about three years ago, the transition was hell and it's still hell....it's an ongoing struggle. Imagine, no job experience, education, a #$#ed up worldview for 20+ years. I have a hard time forgiving my parents for their blind faith in a perverted cult, but I went trhough a period when I was equally brainwashed. I think we should extend a little sympathy, especially to someone who joined at such a young age or was emotially vulnerable at the time. I often heard my mom say that had she met TF during the FFing period, she would have been appalled and never dreamed of joining the cult. The cult did have appeal, however, at the time of its origins as the epidome of an anti "system" movement which appealed to hippies. But once the idealist neophytes were sucked in and under Berg's control, it perpetuated a lifestyle....and we all know what happened from there. (reply to this comment)

From nobody Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 10:10 (Agree/Disagree?) If you think that you are obvious someone who joined. Don’t both trying to convert anyone with ‘they had it so hard’ line. No one made them join. If they were stupid enough to join, disown their own flesh and blood, turn a bind eye to child abuse both mental and physical, and fail to provide protection to their own children, while they we’re off fucking each other. Each and every one of you were reasonable, if you do believe in God, which I don’t, I hope he haunts you for the rest of life for they pain and hurt that you inflicted on us. Don’t bother looking for sympathy for anyone here you deserve every bit of misery you get. (reply to this comment)

from nobody Tuesday, May 18, 2004 - 00:45 (Agree/Disagree?) Money talks! Trying showing that you are sorry. You don’t seem to realize how much you have taken away for your children. You have messed up there education, possibly got your older ones to do all the work for. They have ever right to hate you. These are the people who would have looked after you when you are old. Good luck, as you now reap what you have sowed. (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 10:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Do you deliberately write this way to lend credence to your assertion that the cult has "messed up there[sic] education"? We all know education in the Family was bad, you don't have to butcher the English language to prove it.(reply to this comment)

From nobody Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 10:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Fuck off Joe! It strange that you are winning your poll of who you hate the most. (reply to this comment)