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from Candide Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 13:08 (Agree/Disagree?) You hit the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned. It goes along with what I presented recently at London School of Economics. No matter how hard you try to get out of your socialized paradigm, there it is, embedded in your mind, influencing the way you act and think. Not that I don’t think it can be overcome; only that it is a hell of a process and takes a lot of time, research and education. I think I’ll add my speech so you can look at it. (reply to this comment)

from anovagrrl Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 17:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Just some thoughts about why I joined. I grew up in the military (moved around a lot) as the youngest child in an abusive, alcoholic family. My parents were also fairly well-to-do, and not particularly religious. When I turned 18 I struck out on my own. I worked as a waitress, hitch-hiked around Europe, smoked a lot of dope, caught an STD, enrolled in art school, and tried to keep my family at arm's length. I guess you could call me a hippie. I preferred the term "freak." By the time I was 20, I was pretty stressed out by trying to find my way in life. TF came along with a lot of social support and instant, easy answers. I was always aware that Berg was nutz, but his craziness was familiar--a lot like the stuff I grew up with. For two years I found a "safe haven" in TF, where I didn't have to stress out over taking care of myself and finding my direction. All I had to do was go with the flow. The late 60s and early 70s were wild times--on the heels of three major political assassinations, I came of age in the midst of violent civil unrest over Viet Nam. My decision to go to Europe in 1970 was based on a belief that the US government was about to be overthrown. The Great Escape directive that Berg produced in 1972-73 was just a reflection of how many of us already felt about the instability of our country. Because I'd already expatriated once, I didn't think any problems would get solved by going abroad, so I stayed in the U.S. I left TF in 1974 for a variety of reasons, but basically because I grew up and moved on when I felt ready to take responsibility for my life. I didn't want "leaders" involved in my sex life or telling me how I should raise my kids. I always had a problem with authority figures. I still get a knee-jerk reaction around alpha males. So why did others stay? I think a lot of people got stuck (psychologically) and couldn't figure a way out of their situation. I think it's true that many people just didn't want to take responsibility for their lives. It takes a lot of courage to find your way in this crazy world and take responsibility for your choices. A lot of people are cowards--just plain scared. Berg was a master at playing on people's fears. I admire the people who post on this site. You've overcome a lot of obstacles to get to where you are today. I feel hope for this fucked up world when I read what you have to say. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Tuesday, September 09, 2003, 22:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Always a pleasure to read what you have to say, anovagrrl! You bring class and perspective to this sometimes crazy site!(reply to this comment)

from frmrjoyish Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 20:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Good insight, SR! I agree that TF attracted the type of people who needed to be led! Even the "leaders" weren't real leaders, just more idiots who happened to find a social structure they could advance in. It takes someone of a weak mind to join a group like TF, losers who couldn't make it in the real world, so they joined a make believe lala land type of society! After all, how many truly sucessful people really "forsook all" to join TF? Maybe their kids did but that's it! I haven't heard of any Bill Gates's leaving their billions to join some stupid hippie cult! No one in their right mind would, that's why so many turned out to be child molesters, abusers and other types of personalities rejected by a normal society. (reply to this comment)

from Sir Rantalot Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 04:57 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm not saying all our parents who joined had the same reasons for doing so or came from the same background. Of course European FGAs had a much different reality to their USA peers. I was mainly analyzing what I see as the initial wave of conversions that gave TF it's initial strength to then convert 'normal' or non-Christian young people later. TF started as a movement inside the hippie phenomenon of the '60s, and that's what my article was referring to. My parents both came from good families and neither of them were hippies at the time. But then they were both European and joined in the mid '70s, so while the main force behind their conversion was insecurity(like the american hippies), their social reality was much different to that of the US at that time. The same way the reasons for the flocks of EE youngsters who joined in the early '90s are completely different to those of my parents. Should have been more clear, sorry. My article title should have been, "Thoughts on the social conditions at the time of the Birth of TF" Peace, SR out (reply to this comment)

From Mir Saturday, September 06, 2003, 16:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Cool. Good article btw.(reply to this comment)

from Pete Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 04:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Not all FGA's were raised in the church tradition of American establishment. My mother, for example, was raised in an atheistic household which she found spiritually unsatisfying. (reply to this comment)

from Mir Friday, September 05, 2003 - 16:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Umm. Maybe if your parents were hippies then that would be the case. In my case, my parents were a good 10 years older than everyone else. When my parents joined the average age was 19 back in 1972. My parents were 30. My age, in fact. The reasons why they joined were very different. They had had a conversion experience (my dad used to be a severe alcoholic and my mum was an atheist and epileptic) All that changed when they became "born again" BEFORE they joined the cult. I think that the main reason my dad joined is because Faithy fed my dad's ego and made him feel very important because of his rich, influential father. My dad has very low self esteem and she gave him a boost. By the time the leaders started to treat him like shit it was too late, he was well and truly brainwashed, and anyway, he LOVED all the "sharing" etc etc. My mum went along with it and joined as well because she was very naive and idealistic and "wanted to do something for the Lord". (how many times have I heard that phrase???) By the time alarm bells started to ring (somewhere in the far distance I might add) she was exhausted from having so may kids (she had two when she joined and me straight after and another 4 after that). (reply to this comment)

From Mir Friday, September 05, 2003, 16:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Pharmaboy, btw, this is what I'm referring to: "They were the weak hippies, the ones that took flower power as a fashion movement and summer movement, nothing more the hedonistic “sex, drugs and rock’n’roll” slogan. Then, perhaps a scare on acid (probably simply due to them taking far too much for way too much time)", (reply to this comment)

From snaily Monday, January 24, 2005, 00:33 (Agree/Disagree?) As an older, first gen x fam, I hope you will let me throw my two cents in. There is some truth to what you say. The majority of Americans are Christians, so joining a group of "Christian rrevolutionaries seemed like a safe form of rrebelling And, a lot of those who joined cults were either not very strong or not very bright, or pretty burned out from drugs. (It was slightly different for me. My family is Jewish, so becoming any kind of Christian was a real rerebelling And, I was only 13, so I didn't really know any better.) I think that one thing you have to consider about why a lot of hipiesined cults is the "ego smashing fantasy" You have to realize that during the sixties, Timothy Leary and a lot of people who were influenced by him were promoting the idea of "getting rid of the ego." This was based on some very poorly understood concepts from Eastern philosophy. Basiclyy were confusing the word ego, as it is comoncommonly to mean arogance and selfishness, with the basic concept of self, and concluding that the best thing to do was to get rid of it in order to atain enlightenment. And, the fastest way to do that was to take a lot of phycadelics, especialy LSD. So they sat down, ate a bunch of micrograms, and worked on deconstructing their egos. And, a lot of them suceeded. The result was that they had no sense of "self" left, and thus had no idea what to do with the self that they no longer had. And this is where cults came in. It gave a structure to people no longer capable of managing theire own lives. So, think about that before you dose up. Learn from theire mistakes, and try not to repeat them. BTW, I think you folks are awsome, and I hope your counter revolution goes on and on.(reply to this comment)