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Getting Out : Creeps
Lonnie Davis (Marc): My Jumbo Story | from Jules - Saturday, August 04, 2001
accessed 5657 times Lonnie Davis (Uncle Marc) and the exciting life in the PI Jumbo; originally posted online on exCOGnet.com on July 12, 1998. Regarding the mistreatment of young people in the Family, for me personally, it was not just one isolated individual, but repeated, continual violation, abuse and neglect from the time I was 11 and my parents went to the "Mission Field" of India, until I left at the age of 20. There are some incidents that were more traumatic than others, but as I learn more and more about self-respect and my rights as a free individual, I see more and more how I was almost continually exploited and used. (This is not to say that I don't have any happy memories or fond feelings towards people in the group, I do. Which is what makes it all so confusing emotionally and difficult to sort out.)
[In answer to a specific question that was asked of me by a poster on excognet.com] perhaps I can highlight one specific person in my life, and the process I recently went through with him:
Marc, (Lonnie Davis) the media spokesperson for the group in North America now, was the teen shepherd "Department Head" in the Jumbo, (one of the 3 first training centres for teens--located in the Philippines). When I was 13, I was sent to this centre with my younger sister who was 11. The rest of our family went to Holland. We were told we would probably never see them again.
When I arrived at the Jumbo there were about 50 other "teenagers" (11-16), 50 adults and about 100 other children there. It was kept under armed guard at night. The schedule was very tight. Each morning we had a two hour class from one of the leaders from the group’s teachings. The rest of the day we worked cleaning, cooking and taking care of the children. Discipline was strict, and was given for everything from leaving a book out of place to “not receiving correction with a smile”. All correspondence was censored, and we were not even supposed to speak to each other without supervision. We were under constant 24-hour supervision, and though this was difficult at first, it would become a way of life for the next few years. Detailed personal questionnaires and daily reports were required about every aspect of our thoughts and lives. It soon became apparent that I had numerous “doubts” about many things in the group.
One of my friends became quite sick and was quarantined from the rest of the children. I had been quarantined for a month before, taking care of my little brother who had chicken-pox, and so I knew how hard it was to be all alone by yourself. I used to go see her, and make sure she had food and was okay. I would fill her in on the news. We had a new teen “shepherdess” whose name was Joan at that time (her legal surname is Thatcher, aka Malaysian Mary). She was exceptionally strict with demerits, and so I mentioned to my friend one day to watch out for her, Joan had “demerit fever”. The next day there was a serious class on the “fear of the Lord”. Marc came down to teach it to us. He mentioned that there was someone they were going to talk to that day on their lack of “fear of the Lord”. Some one had been talking about their leaders behind their backs, he told us this was “sowing discord, one of the 7 abominations to God”. We all wondered who it could be, and I felt a bit sorry for the person, but at least it was not me in trouble for once.
Later that day I was called into a meeting with 3 or 4 of the women sitting around. It was me. My friend had reported my “divisive comment” about Joan. Since I was in serious trouble already I thought this might be a good time to tell them about my other doubts. We had been told over and over again that we were not allowed to have any secrets or keep anything back from our overseers. I had written a letter confessing that I did not believe that Berg was the “Endtime Prophet,” his letters seemed just strange, and I did not know if I believed in Jesus, and I figured (okay so I may not be the brightest bulb in the box) that this was a good time to show it to them.
I was immediately put into isolation, where I was read “Letters” while awake and listened to them on headphones when asleep. I remembered what had happened to Mene, (written about in The Last State) and was quite scared of what might happen to me. I wanted to do the right thing, so I decided to accept whatever I was told.
A publication called How to Go on the Attack was read to me several times. It explained that when a “negative thought” or “doubt” comes to your mind it was like a little devil in your mind, and to think it through was to “entertain” the Devil in your heart. What I was to do was to quote a scripture or quote sing a song over and over again in my mind and even out loud until the thought went away on it’s own. Anna, Joan, Joanna and Marc told me that my biggest problem was a critical, analytical mind. This was very, very evil and an “open door for the Devil to come in.” They told me that these thoughts would make me crazy if I didn’t confess and get rid of each of them, just like they did to Mene. I prayed again and again for “child-like faith”, to just yield and accept things, without having to understand. I learned that whenever I thought anything that was negative or critical in any way, what I was to do was to grab the closest leader (they were never far away) and ask them to pray with me to “rebuke” the thought. It was really hard to do this at first, as I had so many thoughts about things.
One night, I was left alone while everyone went to a party that was being held. I was given a tape of Berg singing to listen to. I listened to it over and over and cried and cried. I felt so hopeless and completely alone and overwhelmed. His voice began to comfort me, and I felt as though he was singing to me. I felt a deep bond with him and felt myself decide to commit to the “Family”. I later heard Gary (Grant Montgomery, now the "president" of FCFhttp://www.familycare.org">FCF>), a top leader from Berg’s house who was visiting, talk about experiences like this. He called them anchors. “When things get rough and difficult for you”, he said, “and you think of giving up your place here, anchors can keep you in. Remember those times you really felt close to ‘Dad’ [Berg] and the Family. That’s why you’re here.”
The leaders suggested that I fast in order to “show God that I meant business”, for 3 days I had nothing but water, and milk on the last day. After this, Marc and the other top leaders came and exorcised me from all the “demons” that I allowed into my heart and mind. When they were convinced that I was “delivered”, I was allowed back out with the other children.
This exorcism was to be the first of many. I seemed to be always in trouble for something and would have to confess, apologise and be publicly exorcised time and time again. As time went on, it was easier and easier to not think unacceptable thoughts, I learned to memorise Bible verses that would help me and would repeat them over and over until I felt okay again.
I was not the only one to be singled out, a male friend of mine who had stolen some ear plugs from another boy was beaten in front of all of us by Marc with a large wooden paddle until he cried and begged for mercy.
After I somehow incurred the wrath of the "shepherds" yet again, I was put on Silence Restriction, with a large cardboard sign I had to wear around my neck. It all became too much one day and I wrote a note saying that I wished to leave, and could they please send me to my grandparents as I could not take any more. Marc himself came down with the wooden paddle and told me "we will not let the Enemy win here. I am not going to accept a defeat" and proceeded to "beat the fear of God into me" with the paddle. I finally realised that there was nowhere I could go, and no way that I could get out from where I was. There was no way to contact my parents, except for censored letters forwarded on to them, as I was not sure exactly where they were. The grounds of the compound were patrolled until dawn by Filipino guards with machine guns. All I could do was try to submit completely to everything. I learned to shut down the part of myself that felt anything, so that I could take “rebukes” cheerfully and with a smile, no matter what I was really feeling inside. I learned that I could not trust my “evil” self, my “shepherds” knew what was best for me and what I was really needing.
When things got to be just too much, I learned to do something that I would do for the rest of my time in the group. I would go into a bathroom, (the only private place usually in a home,) lock the door, and cry silently. If it was really too much I would scream into a towel. I felt so very alone and I would pray earnestly and desperately for God to help me get through this day.
It was still very hard for me to give up my own feelings and opinions without any outward sign of disagreement at all. Even a look or flinch or lack of cheerfulness was a sign of inner rebellion. I was first put on Silence Restriction for talking to a friend of mine who had been put on this. At first she had to wear a mask over her mouth with a scripture pinned to the front, as well as tape over her mouth. They finally settled on a large sign around her neck, which was instituted as the Silence Restriction policy. When I was given a sign to wear, I was sitting in the back of the room one day waiting for our "Devotional" class to start. It was a little late, and some of the girls were telling me about something that had happened the day before. Joanna, (a teen overseer) saw this and pulled me out of the room and into the large "closet" next door. She slapped my face and yelled at me for allowing them to talk to me while I was on Silence Restriction. I hung my head and tried really hard to accept what she was saying.
After they caught me praying aloud with another girl, Anna, Mary and Joanna (the teen girls overseers) were not convinced that I was really submitting fully. I was now not allowed to sit by any other teenagers. When they thought that was not enough I was put on a daily callisthenics program until they felt that I had really broken. I did not know if I would ever be allowed to talk to other children again, or what was waiting for me every day when I woke up. I learned to live in very small time segments and to block off anything past or anything ahead. A month went by, and I had given up all hope of ever being back with the other children. One day Anna came to me and told me I had “passed the test”. The sign was taken off my neck and I was allowed to be part of the regular program again.
The “callisthenics program” was normally the result of three demerits in one day. Although I was extremely fit and weighed about 95lbs, it was really hard to do, and every joint and muscle would ache for days afterwards. When it was first instituted, one of the boys could not keep up and had a heart attack. They took him to the hospital while the other boys finished the program.
Some of the punishments did not make a lot of sense. A older teen named Nehemiah, who was one of Berg’s grandsons, was promoted to a “teen shepherd”. One of the boys was not very cheerful, and did not like to smile. (We were taught that this was important as a Christian.) Nehemiah gave him a “smiling machine” to wear for the day if he was caught not smiling. It was a rubber band on the end of 2 paper clips that went around his head and held up the corners of his mouth. In the girls room, Anna would hand out punishments like a demerit for every toe that touched a mattress on the floor, or would shove the faces of girls right over the toilet if they forgot to flush it. Still I tried hard not to be critical and to yield as I was taught to do.
One “class” that I remember vividly was with Anna and Tiago, two “teen shepherds”. They both sat up front, Anna fully clothed up to the neck and ankles. Tiago began to read from “Revolutionary Sex”, a group publication. As he read, Anna began to take off her clothes. She kept stripping slowly until she was down to her panties. Tiago finished the reading and explained that this was a new phase in our training. We would now be allowed to change and shower together. Anna then hugged all the boys.
Although we were not allowed to have sex, (the girls and boys were completely separate for most of the time) as Marc said they “didn’t want any pregnant teenagers on [their] hands”, (I knew nothing about birth control,) nudity and “affection” were a large part of our life. The girls there were not allowed to wear bras, except for exercising, and most clothing was out, (we wore communal “sarongs”). Anna and Mary would come from mat to mat and check that we were not wearing underwear at night. We were taught to give full body to body embraces, shown by the women how to masturbate, covering ourselves if an adult man or teen boy came in when we were naked was a demeritable offence, the shower by the pool was an large open air one, and we had to strip naked and shower outside. My developing body was new to me, and I remember how difficult it was for me at first to have to strip as all the passing men would just stand and stare. A man was added to the teen girl overseers team, Chris. He would tell us graphic sex stories at bed time. KY Jelly was provided to the teen rooms to help us to masturbate.
Although physical intimacy was promoted, we were taught that as “Bible Women”, we should not have personal feelings towards any particular man, but should act the same with everyone, “as unto God”. I was told off time and time again for my “Women’s Libber” attitude. I had to memorise many things on being a Bible Woman and submission. A quote from the “Letter” You Are Your Own Worst Enemy (which was on my assigned memorization list) went something like: “According to God’s Word we are a male chauvinistic society. The woman is there to satisfy the man and not to be so greatly concerned whether she is satisfied herself”. I tried hard to learn to be this way, and began to understand my role as a woman in the Family was to provide pleasure and to make things easier for the men.
To be fair, although Marc was the one responsible for this whole Mickey-Mouse operation, it was certainly not just him who was abusive here. In fact, every single thing that went on was reported directly to Berg and Zerby and often disciplinary acts were handed down directly from them. Which is what made me so upset when Zerby in the second version of "Back on Track", the Europe series, said something to the effect of, "where did this idea of Silence Restriction come from? This sort of inhumane punishment should never be allowed in our homes". She knew exactly where it came from.
Anyway, back to Marc. When I was a 13 year-old child alone in the Philippines, Marc terrified me, as he did all of us. I saw him once briefly about three years after leaving and I felt like someone hit me in the gut. I couldn't breathe and started to shake. Since leaving, I have worked hard to reinvent myself, and I am a completely different person. Somewhere inside though, that little girl that I used to be was still terrified by Marc, even though logically I knew there was no reason to be.
[In 1998] I attended a AFF conference in Philadelphia. The topic was "Children in Cults", (it was awful and I would never go attend any other of their conferences, but that's a whole other story.) Marc and Claire were also at this conference, (with, interestingly enough, their equivalents in Scientology). As I saw them slip in the back of the room, I felt the same feeling again. I decided that I had to talk to Marc. What I would say, I didn't know, but I wanted to tell myself that it was okay, I am not that vulnerable, scared little girl any more, I am now an adult in control of my life, and no one will ever hurt me again like that.
I went over to them and we sat and talked for about 2 hours. I don't know if they understood or even heard what I was saying, but as they were leaving, Marc looked at me and said, "I'm really sorry, Sharon" (my Family name). I can't be sure exactly what he meant, but to me, it was beginning to put "Sharon" to rest. I felt it was sincere. Does it fix what he did? No. Does it make it hurt less? No. Does it offer any practical help to me now? No. But I do feel it is a start.
Excuse me here, (old habits die hard) but the verse that comes to mind is James 3:1, "Do not seek to be teachers, for unto you is the greater condemnation". Leaders in the cult made decisions regarding other people's lives--they now will have to live with the consequences. I believe in Karma, as the natural law of reaping the consequences of what you have sowed. Having been in childcare and a Teen/JETT (children aged 11-16) caretaker myself for much of the time in the group, I know what it is like to have to make decisions that affect others.
However, I also know that it is possible to take a stand for what is right, even in the Family. I remember being told by my supervisor that children in the Family need to go through "breakings". What he said was "breakings are what keep you humble and close to God. Children in the Family don't really go through that much, so sometimes we have to make breakings happen to them if they get a bit 'lifted up'". Excuse me? Making their lives deliberately difficult for no good reason? I flat out refused to do it.
I certainly did not stand up for the other children in my life nearly as much as I should I have, and am not claiming to have come out of this cult with no regrets, I think we all do, especially those of us with responsibility for others. No one is perfect, no parent or caregiver anywhere. But I believe that no matter what the reason, or what happened, somewhere, somehow, it will come back to you, and eventually your own evil will catch up to you--I guarantee, one day you will have to "give account", and for once, sticking your head in the sand and your butt in the air won't do you much good. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from cool8pack
Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 07:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
So sad! But you are so brave and have, it seems come out on tops. My heart goes out to you. I was at the FARM in Macau, and your account sends shivers down my spine with memories during a, albeit very short time under Abner, a fat Australian lady, Chris (AKA Peepers) and a few others. Couldn't put a foot right without getting in trouble - it was just for a short time, as Ho, who was getting a dose of his own medicene in Japan, returned and kicked them all out -leaders first! Oh, were they shocked! -- which was brilliant. Ho turned out all right! I think Abner turned out all right too! You're right - life is sometimes like a path, sometimes like a circle. We reap what we sow - eventually! As you say, we will all give an account!
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| | | |  From Baxter
Wednesday, May 26, 2004, 14:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
I was at the farm as well, mate! And yes, that aussie woman was a fucking whale! With a fucking huge litter to boot! I think she had about 10 or something. Funny as hell, she was with Chris mountain at the time, who as you remember was tall and thin! I think Abner lives and his family live in England, Devon or Gloucester or somewhere. Anyway, mate, who are you? i don't know if you'd remember me anyway, I was a fucking squirt of a 'JETT'(I cringe) at the time.
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| | From frmrjoyish
Wednesday, May 26, 2004, 19:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Chris Mountain is a horrible perverted prick! I knew him almost my whole life. I found out as a young teenager that he had spread a disgusting (and very false) rumor that I, AS A 5 YR OLD CHILD, had made sexual advances towards him. Evidently, the stupid pervert was laughing and bragging about it! Imagine my horror when several of my longtime friends recounted what he had told a group of my peers in a devotions or something! I was mortified! Not to mention those mornings when a bunch of us teenagers had to sleep in his room and wake up to him and that fat-ass having sex. Wasn't her name Becky or something like that?(reply to this comment) |
| | From Baxter
Thursday, May 27, 2004, 05:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think you got the name right, it might have been Becky; she was only two metres across, not someone you could forget in a hurry (try as you might)! I remember her telling one of her daughters that her younger brother's sexual advances to her was just natural! She was fucking wierd. There was a pre-teen girl who also came into her son's affections, and she fucking encouraged his sexual harassment of her. I think it was that line about 'you must be determined and they will yield', crap like that! God, the memories are coming back hard and fast!(reply to this comment) |
| | from mona
Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 14:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
I know it's a little late to respond to this article. But how can I resist when I remember how horrible it was. I was on silence restriction for three months, paddled twice by Joan once for failing to have my hair in a french braid which I was not allowed to remove. And once for talking to my sister on new years day when she had chickenpox. I was not allowed to eat for two weeks. And because of my varied and many sins that a twelve yearold has I had to have calastenics everyday. I had a public prayer of deliverance and missed almost every movie night they had. I do not hate TF but God I hate everyone who was a leader at the Jumbo. One more thing I'd like to add is I have never heard an apology that was suffucient, or that was not accompanied by some lame excuse as to why they could abuse or allow us to be abused in such a horrible fashion. In my opinion if you saw it being done and did nothing to stop it you are just as guilty
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| from sarafina
Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 16:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
OMG Jules I was there too I remmeber all of that we must have been there at the same time. I was 12 or 13 it was like in 1986 or something right before we all has to "flee" the country. I must have known you then. Tere were just so many teens its hard to remmebr that long ago.I'm trying to remember. We lived in the PI for about 6yrs. Your story sounds just like mine too amazing that the same things happened to both of us.
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| from Genty
Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 16:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, I was there at the Jumbo too. Jules and I were quite close actually and got into lots of trouble together. Every thing on there is true and there are other atrocities of the same calibur and worse. I was constantly in trouble there too. I had a boyfriend and they found one of our secret notes to each other and banned us from talking to or sitting next to each other. We were 16 years old and definitely ready for some sort of relationship but it was not allowed because we were there for training and it would be too distracting. I'll tell you it was more distracting when we weren't allowed to talk to each other and had to sneak around. He wouldn't "forsake it in his heart" so they put him in solitary confinement for 2 weeks and he did the whole fast & pray thing too. Poor guy. Anyway. We all suffered there.
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| from nancy
Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 13:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
I am completely flabbergasted at the idiocy and straight from hell or their own crazy minds they all put you young people thru.. I was Renee Canada of Mathew Can. I've been completely out since "93. I'm sorry I was ever a part of the whole thing and more sorry when I read this. But I'm glad for each one of my children. I saw Johnney, my 9th, who is 18 and raised by Harvest, once with Elam, and he is just like my other boys, and I hope out of the family soon. He is the only one left, except for Sara and JP, who are considering what they need to do, too. Parden me if I throw this in. Jesus loves us, thank you Jesus. Love Nancy Well, Chesco and his wife are still in but his wife's family outside Paris happen to be beautiful people, not because of the Family but because of the Lord.
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| From celestej
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 04:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Nancy, I know your son Johnney. He was one of my childhood friends- we lived together in Hawaii. Harvest was my teacher, Elam ended up fathering my youngest brother Matthew. My mother's family name is Joy. How is Johnney? Is he out? I remember him being red-haired and freckled and extremely intelligent. He actually tormented me quite a bit as boys are wont to do to little girls, but we were also friends and I always asked him questions about everything. my e-mail is celestej123@yahoo.com(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From deana
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 19:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Unfortunately, I remember Harvest very well. I have a vivid memory of Harvest and Elam fucking - butt naked - lights on - during "parent time" on a bottom bunk bed just a few feet away from us kids playing with toys on the floor...eww! I also remember her egging my three year old sister and her little boy on when they would get naked and try to fuck. She would call other adults into the room and they would watch and talk about how cute it was that they were trying to imitate them. She would use the word "revolutionary" often and shake her bare pimpled ass in our face.
Doesn't Harvest have a big black ugly mole on her face? I'm almost certain that she does. Or could that be my imagination since I always thought of her as a wicked witch. I remember her beating me as hard as she could with multiple objects and then sending me to adult males to continue the beatings since they could "knock it out" of me harder then she could. She was always there to suggest to anyone "correcting" me, that I be sent in for a beating - and then I was. I have many stories. I don't know who Harvest is today, but the Harvest that I knew 20+ years ago was cruel and heartless. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Shaka
Wednesday, May 26, 2004, 21:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's my mother Joe. I don't know her very well because I didn't grow up with her but I do know that she has gone through hell for her children. She was never a part of the abuse and her hatred of the Family is as great as ours. She still has some screwed up ideas about religion but then again, so does the majority of the world's population. This is all very moot because that comment you replyed to was posted a couple years ago and she doesn't get on this site anymore. She's far too busy struggling with severe health problems while raising her two youngest kids. I will never agree with the choices she made and I owe her nothing but I think she has more love for her children than anyone I have ever known, along with the parents I grew up with who did their best to shield me from the society they so wrongly chose for themselves.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From celestej
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 04:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
Elam fathered my youngest brother. It took awhile to figure out, as my mother was "sharing" with two men at the time she got pregnant in Hawaii (The other was Ben). They had a meeting about it with the shepards and both Elam and Ben tried to pass off the pregnancy as the other's fault. Anyway, my little brother is a fantastic kid, the only one who's not screwed up since we left TF when he was a year old. Any info on Elam would be great.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Lebrat76
Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 04:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
When I was thirteen guess who came to mexico to tourture me? Marc. What is is about him and 13 year olds any way? I sorry jules I know how you feel. Maybe soon I'll write my story and share it with all--perhaps it will help me to really really get it ALL out.
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| | | | from angel
Monday, September 03, 2001 - 01:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
i did the whole victor programm, silence restriction,praying on your knees thing too. its good to read stories of people who know exactly how i feel, and how angry i get when i think about it.by the way, jules, did you know a girl named Pandita? aka blessing? she was also in the pilipines jumbo, also in that same victor program.it would be so cool if u 2 knew each other.
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| from porceleindoll
Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 19:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Alf, you are right, why didn't I leave sooner? I have asked myself the same question. I wasn't a minor when I left, but was a minor when I joined with my father. It wasn't exactly my choice to join to begin with.
I don't want to excuse myself, and that's not my goal. I fully realise that when I stand before God, I will be held responsible for myself. I am thankful that I never beat anyone, never raped anyone, am not guilty of the extreme emotional abuse some are, but I feel sorry for the mistakes I made.
Do you know what loyalty is? Do you know what loyalty requires? For those who have joined a group or organization it often requires absolute loyalty. Groups all over the world demand it, not just cults. The Marines, the Navy, the Mafia, it doesn't matter the religion or belief system, loyalty is a prime requisite, and in the Family loyalty was required there as well. When you have given your life to something and decided this is what you want to do, loyalty is part of it, whether or not the organization is right or wrong.
If you have been in the F. before then you must relise the pressure to obey, yield, follow your leaders that was on you. You must realise the fears placed on you concerning leaving, that it would be the worst thing you could do with your life, that God will definitely punish you. When this has been ingrained in you on a daily basis for 15 or more years, making a choice to leave is very very difficult.
If you remember a few years ago in Japan a group called the Aum Shinrikyo was busted. The leader was a guru with absolute power in his hands. Most of the followers who committed some of the awful deeds of, 1)murdering an entire family just because the father, a lawyer, was determined to bring them down, and burying them in such a remote location they couldn't be found, 2)incinerating bodies of dissemblers so their bodies would never be found, 3) setting off gas in public train stations that was so poisonous it killed people in the vacinity and made hundreds of others sick, those members were acting on orders of the leader and acting in loyalty. When the group was caught, although members confessed to committing the deeds, they for the most part got off with a light prison term, but the one who is going to hang for it is the leader.
What about the Palestinian terrorists who are strapping bombs to their bodies and blowing up cafes and what not along with themselves and others, children included? Who is ultimately being held responsible? If the guy was still alive, yes, he'd probably be severely punished, executed, but the authorities know that they are not solely responsible for their actions, they are responding in loyalty to their beliefs and their leaders and their orders.
And so, those in the Family, though wrongdoers should be punished and not have the impression they can get away with their misdeeds, ultimately it is those in charge who are responsible and the most accountable. Isn't it hard to punish someone for being loyal?
Alf, when did you leave the Family and did you never do a wrong thing there? How committed were you to the cause? Have you experienced making a choice between something you didn't feel was exactly right morally and going against your belief system and leadership.
For this reason I will never again join a religion, group, organization, or anything that would have any control over my life or decisions.
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| | | | from porceleindoll
Monday, August 06, 2001 - 04:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow Jules, you really went through a lot. I have to admire so many who went through these sort of things and made it through on the better side of life.
I was at the HCS as all those Jumbo things were going on and when those guys came over here. But I wasn't included in the teen department, being just older than the rest. I did come into the teen group right around the "Cool" thing and was included more in happenings, and many of the revolutions they tried there, but I shied away from what I didn't think I could handle. There was always a line I wouldn't cross, esp. when it came to sex and sharing. No matter how much they tried to convince me that it was all for love, I couldn't bring myself to join into kissing and petting parties, dates, etc. I finally tried it out with someone, and cried almost the whole way through.
My husband's oldest son was among the pioneer VICTORS and had many horrible things happen to him, things that today would definitely be considered abuse, and my husband has regretted giving his parental control over to the group and allowing these things to happen to his son. I am thankful his son isn't bitter against his dad about it.
My sister was also a pioneer VICTOR and had some severe abuse happen to her, and my Dad is now very regretful for the same reason, that he allowed the group to take away his rights as a parent, because when it comes down to it, the parents are responsible for their children.
A few years later I was working in the JETT department as a JETT shepherd, at the time when VICTOR programs were in full force, and finding ways to control your "problem" kids in the group. Some of the things we did, spankings or corrections for idiotic reasons make me feel very uncomfortable and sad. I once worked with Berg's grandson Josh, and he was so strict and merciless, it was heartbreaking, I couldn't understand how he could sometimes treat those kids as you would a dumb dog or less. I was glad when he moved on to another department.
I was there when the Techi series first started coming out, and remember grilling those young kids on their thoughts, their doubts, trying to drag it out of them. One of the Jetts "admitted" he had suicidal thoughts, and of course the red lights went off. Years later I asked him about it and he laughed and said he'd just made it up to say something, poor kid.
I regret not allowing kids to be kids, teens to be teens, but expecting a twisted maturity of them. They were expected to behave and act as adults, carrying adult loads of work and responsibilty, but not receiving the trust and freedom that comes with being an adult.
I wasn't hardly trusted at the age of 24 to take a small group of Jetts out for a bike ride, which was depressing for me, and was around the time I realised I wasn't going anywhere with my life. My counterparts on the outside were heading companies, completely independent, making major decisions every day, and I couldn't even take a small group of 11 year olds out for a bike ride. That was probably one major turning point towards me leaving.
I think a lot of leaders are probably regretting their action during the "School" era, and if they were to honestly apologise for their behaviour I would accept it, but if I met one who felt they were justified in any of their "corrections", I think I would give them a severe piece of my mind.
I remember having to give kids swats and make them say thank you to me, or witness their punishment and apology, and if they made a noise during the spanking or didn't smile afterwards, it was more swats to them. Of course I feel awful for it now, my heart hurts for it, and if I see them again I would do all I could to apologise and let them know I was truly sorry.
I don't want to justify mine or any other person's behaviour by saying this, I am willing to take full responsiblity for the mistakes I made, but I also know that when you're in that environment of control, it's hard to decide otherwise. To contradict your overshepherds and say "I don't think this is right" would be considered very bad and you would be out of it and on the "watch this person" list. Then a little while later they would sit down to list your sins and you would get the Word list, prayer, fasting, correction, humiliation, then try again to do it right.
I had at least 2 major breakdowns at the HCS, I think mostly cause I couldn't come to terms with some of the things I was asked to submit to, but I didn't have the courage to say, "I've had enough, I'm out of here!"
One of the Jetts once wrote on their OHR that during the night and adult man had come into her room and was feeling her out. I was infuriated, angry as hell that this would happen. I reported it to my overseer, along with my anger, asking "what's going to happen to this guy!" I later got "talked to" about being SR, and that we wouldn't want to excom a good dedicated guy just for a little slip. I had no idea how to react, it was very confusing, cause I had the lives of these kids under my care, and if it had been my own kid I would have been pissed as hell, but this guy wasn't going to get punished and I was wrong for being mad about it?? At the time I just swallowed my confusion, put it into the "doubts are of the enemy" section, and tried to forget it, but over the years as I have thought of it, I get angry each time. (I later found out this guy got a Word and fasting punishment for the incident).
Why am I saying all this? I don't know, just saying, I'm sorry Jules for you and for all the kids, including my sisters, and even myself, who were treated so inhumanely by a group who thinks it is God to the World.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From porceleindoll
Monday, July 08, 2002, 21:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's so kind of you! Of course I remember, I wrote your brother recently and asked him to say hi, I didn't know if you'd remember me. I had a lot of fun with you guys, until Daniel came into the picture, things kind of weirded out, and I had a nervous breakdown. Did you know, when they asked me to be on your group I cried for a day, you guys scared me to death, you seemed so (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Jules
Tuesday, August 07, 2001, 00:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
PD, I do understand those feelings all too well. Some of the things that I did or agreed with then, would be completely unthinkable to me now.
To be fair, though I completely agree that we are all accountable for our actions, I think there are definitely levels of accountability. For those of us who were born and raised in the Family, we really had absolutely no other point of reference. People who joined as adults did, and I think that makes a big difference. For example, when I first left, I had absolutely no idea of what having my own identity actually meant. I had completely internalized almost all of the Family's sexism, and actually believed that a woman's role in life was to please men.
Something that I haven't quite resolved in my own mind is exactly how accountable we as second generation members were. For example, in one of the Victor programs in the UK, it was one of the teenagers assisting the adults running it who was the most brutal and hated of all. This same teenager raped a number of much younger girls. On some level he must have known that this was wrong, but the lack of accountability in the Family gave so many adults liberty to indulge their desires, (and that was what they definitely were--don't whine about poor Rick Dupuy being "forced" to have sex with a child,) let alone someone who had never encountered societal norms or seen any of their caregivers exhibit any form of self-control. Perhaps the whole question and moral dilemma faced by many of us who were raised completely within the Family culture in itself stands as unequivocal proof that these things were inherently wrong, and as such we should take full responsiblity for however we have hurt others.
I just can't understand that "the poor dedicated guy had just a little slip" mentality. It is nice for these sadists to believe the "blood of Jesus Christ cleanses them from all sin" I think if they ever meet the God they claim it was all for, he is much more likely to say to them "I never knew you, depart from me all ye workers of iniquity"
(sorry about that--now imagine if I had memorized something useful for all those years: mathematical formulas, Shakespeare, C++ statements, cocktail mixes--actually have the last one down pretty well...)(reply to this comment) |
| | From jpmagero
Wednesday, August 07, 2002, 22:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
A case just closed in the US regarding a murder. A sheriff lost the elections and the new sheriff promised to expose the coruption he had been involved in for years. The fmr sheriff sent two gunmen to murder the sheriff-elect.
After the whole case ended, the gunmen who actually pulled the trigger go off pretty light for testifying and the ex-sheriff who sent them got life. They were both held responsible, but they each had their level of accountability because of whatever pressures involved.
I think that has a very large similarity in the grp. There are those that saw the evil, but lacked the courage to do something about it, or maybe tried and were trampled on for it. That may not complete free them from any responsibility, but if they have the guts to admit to it and apologies, that's a major step.
It's the scum that has taken part in any form of abuse and won't admit it that has got to suffer worse.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Holon
Wednesday, August 08, 2001, 10:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
Alf, have you ever heard of somthing called fear,and guilt?Not to mention the fact that the fact that we were minors.We couldnt leave if we wanted to.I cant understand where you are comming from? Were you even in the family? If so I'd like to know where it was you were.At no point in my life in the family did I ever have the option of leaving. The reason I left when I was 15 was because my parents did.Other wise I would have had to stay there till I was 18. I know saying this to you means nothing. Because you are just here to be a pain in the ass. Or you are trying to get some attention or whatever.I feel sorry for you Alf,my guess is you have some self issteme issues that you should probably get some help with.People who go around dissing other people do it to make them selves feel better.I probably shouldnt even reply to your comments because I'm sure you just crave the attention. Get some help man. Carrying around so much hatefullness and bitterness isnt very healthy.I truly pitty you. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Jules
Wednesday, August 08, 2001, 00:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't think any of us are looking for pity. For myself, writing the details of what actually happened helped to eliminate a lot of emotional turmoil that I felt regarding my "teen training" years. Once it was written out, I could clearly see that the whole experience was pretty fucked up, and I had a right to my anger, which actually helped to move on from that place.
When I initally posted this on the internet it helped to give me a feeling of control over the experiences and to gain some sense of justice about what had happened. I know logically that just writing this on an exmember website will have virtually no effect on the people who did these things, but for me it was more about emotional healing.
I also do believe that these stories need to be told. As an example, I've never been able to talk to my parents in much detail about the Family. They are still members, and face to face the whole thing is just too difficult for me and for them. My dad told me a couple days ago that he has been on this website. Perhaps reading what is written here may finally help parents understand exactly what their choices meant for the children they handed over to this group.(reply to this comment) |
| | From neez
Thursday, July 04, 2002, 01:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jules: couldn't agree more.
The only way I'm able to talk with my dad about our life in the (f word.. heh), is too get extremly pissed off about something (a recently obtained skill), then come home, take one look at his old face, & start your engines, we're off..
The fact that he has yet to learn how to express even the most basic of human emotions, probably doesn't help much. But, if he had known how to tell someone to fuck off..(cue the violent thoughts) Then I wouldn't be here writing this story.
He's not on the inside anymore btw. But he's the type that refuses to even think about considering admitting to thinking about the fact that it was his (drug induced?) choice to waste the best 20 years of his life.
But hey no matter how many nights I've been drugfucked off my brain, I certainly haven't met any nice hippie couples that I just knew I wanted to follow them around & eat their shit my whole life.(summarised) & hey.. I reckon I'll drag my poor young family into this as well.. yup thats a darn fuckin tootin idea that one!!
Places like this website offer the only info that most ppl that want to know, but don't know they want to know..until they know.. But now all that matters is getting other kids outta the hole.. & giving them this webpage to look at in their own time (if they have any) in their own space.. well I can only guess how much it would've helped me.
out(reply to this comment) |
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