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from cyborcosmic Monday, June 30, 2003 - 15:44 (Agree/Disagree?) How many children were abused and then blocked it out of their memory? I never wanted to remember any of it, but its not really selective is it! I lived with pedophiles during my entire time in the Family, my mom had to leave her husband, (he wasn't in the lord) and the Family teamed her up with a pedophile American Vietnam Veteran with Post Traumatic Stress Dissorder. When I wasn't in his company being beaten in the face at 2 or being hit (barebottom spanking) and verbaly abused then I was out with my mom and her numerous lovers. I had to live with them; meaning that I was witness to all the sexuall sharing. My first memory is being watched by my stepdad while dancing with my 2 sisters and one other girl of 8, all of us half naked only wearing see-through clothes.(I was 3 or 4) Then later I was also 'beaten' and taken out of bed to the shower for 'peeing in my bed' I vomitted in my bed all the time and I'm still haunted by that home where I stayed when I was 5. There was sharing night, and although the kids were kept separate (they closed the doors) Just being around them poisoned me. They made us do skits throughout the day, told us about nude bible characters like Bathsheeba (who committed adultry!!) and I was encouraged to be sexual and inticing (That was all that women were made for, to satisfy "Kings") All this made it very easy for me to react to mens arosal clues (especially when they would masterbate openly) And from the begining I confused perversion with human sexuall needs. Incest, special fondling of children, spending time with them, spankings...etc. That too was sexual abuse. They told us stories to mess with our memory. Like 'sweet dreams, think of your mommy and daddy' so that we would 'dream' about them. Also, I know I was abused not because I remember (I blocked out all thouse times I was taken to the shower for 'peeing in my bed' I remember waking up in the shower!) but because I would dissasociate myself from sex while doing it and usually avoid physical contact. Don't forget that at the time we were ordered to supress all our feeling which added to our confusion of right and wrong. Also children are unable to diferenciate between fantasy and reality. How many times were we prayed on and cleansed through Christ? That would just further supress what happened. (reply to this comment)

From cocomojo Monday, February 07, 2005, 22:59 (Agree/Disagree?) Every time I think on it I remember more and more instances of abuse. I remember having sex with a 12 year old girl when I was 5, (countless times, can't even remember how many), and her 10 year old sister as well. When I was six I had sex with a girl around my age, her parents laughed and thought it was cute. When I was seven I had sex with two girls 1 and 2 years younger than me, also sisters. For many years after this I suffered from severe agrophobia, which impaired my witnessing (read money making), which in turn earned me all kinds of punishment for pride, and unyieldedness. Which landed me in the victor program, which made me a black sheep in my family. I still have little or no comunication with my dad, and my mom has been gone from my life for years. I can't really remember my childhood much, my memories (non-sexual, normal ones) before the age of seven wouldn't take all my fingers to count. I welcome the repression.(reply to this comment)

From Sonderval Thursday, January 15, 2004, 05:56 (Agree/Disagree?) memory can be very selective, I know mine is a lot of the time, there are things that if I try hard I can remember, but the fact is every time I look away from it again I forget, the mind's healing mechanism is very powerful and kinda scary. I hear a lot of people saying things like make them pay, take them to court, punishment and retribution, yada yada yada. But the fact is that unless you've been through this you can't possibly know what you're asking, it's easy to preach about how you shouldn't feel bad about it, shit ain't like that, and even if those of us who have suffered serious abuse were to take our abusers to court, it's now so long after the fact and there'd be so much contradictory evidence that a conviction and sentence even if we could get them tried in this country would be next to impossible, so we'd have to suffer social ostracism and the unbelievably scarring experience of being cross examined in court about things that we've spent years forgetting and moving on from for what exactly? I'm not saying that you shouldn't take your abusers to court, I'm saying that in reality most of us never will, and unless you've actually suffered what we've suffered and know just how deeply and permanently it injures you it's all too easy to talk about getting justice without understanding the personal cost to the victims. Anyway, how do you get justice against someone who's destroyed so much, sometimes it just seems to make more sense to walk away from EVERYTHING and try to build a life from scratch instead of scrabbling around with the shreds of what you're left with. (reply to this comment)

From Not sure Thursday, January 15, 2004, 07:59 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree with your take on the whole going to court to get justice point, it would be a very difficult and tramatic experience, not only to be cross examined, but to have to relive some of those things in a semi-public venue...it would be too much for me, personally. As far as memory being selective, this may be true for some people (including yourself, as you mentioned), but for me, the memories of instances of abuse will never fade. Maybe it was because they were particularly tramatic for me, but even as early as 8 I have a vivid memory of what happened to me; I even remember the room and how it looked. Yes, other things have faded from my memory from those times, but for some reason the specific incident is branded in time for me. I wish I could forget it, believe me! Maybe my mind doesn't have as great healing properties as some others :) But I am not one that would go "seeking justice", pretty much for the reasons you brought up, so I certainly agree with you on that. I am still trying to find out for myself how to heal. Is it best to just try to block out the memories? For years I did try to pretend that things didn't happen, or that I was okay with what did. But I can't seem to forget them. How to deal, I really honestly don't know. Perhaps it's more a matter of time, and because I only left TF relatively recently (a couple years), it has only been since that time that I was finally "allowed" to see what happened to me as wrong. I had tried to talk to people about it while still in, but was told I was being proud and prudish, "unrevolutionary", or that it wasn't bad what happened to me. Now, being free, I can look and say, yes, that was bad, that was horrible. And perhaps that is one of the first steps to healing. It is a little confusing for a mind to be told that something that felt so wrong was right. But now that I can feel the anger, feel the grief that I should have been allowed to feel years ago, maybe now it will start to fade, and I can start over. This may be taken as a totally sexist comment, but what the hell, I think that in general it can be a lot easier for a man to forget or put aside memories than for a woman. I think we tend to dwell on things more, we want it all sorted out and worked out before we will move on, whereas a guy, he'll be like, nah, can't fix it--ditch it, while a woman will sit there trying to glue together the vase for months, and the the guy has already bought a new one. :) (reply to this comment)

from Snuzzles Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 15:18 (Agree/Disagree?) I remember the first time I was beaten I was around 5 yrs old I remember it cause I remember waking up crying and vomiting on my bed and the lady who was there at the time spanked me for wetting the bed and made me sleep in it , then it happened again thats same night, I threw up again and was feeling terrible and this time she went and got an "uncle" and he kicked me with his foot outta the bed onto the floor and was yelling at me for lying about havin wet the bed I was crying and sayin "i threw up from my tummy not my pee pee". They made me sleep on the floor from what i can remember. everything after the kicjking i don't remember, as i was growing up (brazil, mexico, chile) I was sexually and verbaly phisically abused, when i was 11 I was sent to go live in mexico at "seeks and Servants" home, I was in the bathroom after nights out going pee pee( and the dam doors don't lock Of course) so i was holding it closed with the bathroom lit trunk. This guy pushed the door open he was naked and had semen all over his penis and was all outta breath and i just turned the other way. He then muttered somethin about old bottles not finishing a job or somethin and then proceeded to ask me if i would clean him off pls, I didnt move and he got mad at me saying that I was an old bottle and old bottles are an abomanation to god and he grabed my face and MADE me lick himoff!!! I was throwing up and gagging and it was awfull, I was 11 yrs old. Also they never let mecall my parents cause I would cry non stop and they didnt like that so everytime my parents would call they would say i was out or somethin and when i wrote letters they would read them first and make sure they were ok to send so i could never say anything . They had a " sharing night everyweek" where they would team you up and you had to have sex with people, I never wanted to so instead i was beat down in the back garage to humble me cause I thought my self to good for anyone in the home... so after a few times of this i broke down and said ok to the sex and i had to team up with two men!! one fat one one thin tall one... this was called a threesome and was sopposed to make up for the times i had been selfish with people, it was horrible and painful the fat one crawled on top of me and i couldt breath i was crying for him to stop cause i hurt ... he ignored me and was just humping like a jerk...the other one was geting annoyed with my crying and stuck his penis in my mouth to make me stop crying and i bit him and then he started hitiing my face , while the other guy was on top of me...it all stoped when i passed out. I woke up cold naked with no covers and alone up in the back garage, A few weeks later I told the sheapherd of the home and she said "well you know if you would just love others and not be selfish then none of that would have happened cause god blesses those who do his will and punishes those who dont.". I hate my life, and I hate anyone who tries to tell me to forgive and forget. Those are only three insidences of MANY that I went though but thats another story or 10 one day I'll get around to telling my whole story maybe it will help in the healing if there is such a thing. (reply to this comment)

From cocomojo Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 09:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Disregard if I'm wrong. Maybe you can write it all down for yourself, little by little, like a purging of the poison. Maybe when it's in front of you in a linear fashion you can make some sence of it all. This helps me sometimes.(reply to this comment)

from Misty Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 18:58 (Agree/Disagree?) The worst offenders were always the shepards. The higher their rank the worse they were. I used to bind my boobs down so I'd look more like a boy, in a vain attempt not to be noticed. I'll never forget when one of the shepards told me it was my duty to look after his needs while his wife was away. I was 11 yrs old. If only I knew any of their real names maybe I could do something about it. (reply to this comment)

from Auty Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 20:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeap, happened over here. And I bet more women were sexually abused than males in the family. Besided the "uncles" rubbing their weenies on you at dance nice at the HCS, there was a pervert (whom I mentioned in this section) Robert McDonald, AKA Newheart, AKA Sir Robert). I lived with him for about 2 years, from the age 14-16ish before I was "rescued" to go to the Victor's Program. My salvation was victors in a very weird sort of way. I was the only Teen girl in the home and he was just awful. First man at a budding young age that ever went down on me . . .first man I was forced to give head to. Besides the constant sexual abuse I suffered at his hands, the physical was equally tormenting. I have kidney problems from his constant beating. Took a bottle of asprin to try to get away from him, miscarried because of his beatings. The list goes on, one which I don't particularly bring up in any discussions. The worst part is when I finally left the family and told my father this he said "well honey, you were a FLIRTY little teen" . . .thus my relationship with my father is based on the weather. (reply to this comment)

From thepersoniamnow Sunday, September 15, 2002, 08:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Newhearts son is one of my best friends. I lived with them in Osaka school long ago. Anyways, if you write me at thepersoniamnow@hotmail.com, I can give you Newhearts phonenumber and you can verbally rape him....just thought Id offer. He lives in S. Carolina! Dan(reply to this comment)

from dadhater Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 17:53 (Agree/Disagree?) I was sexually molested numerous times by my own father and several "childcare" takers. Each time they justified themselves and told me how privaleged i was at age 6 to be able to have "love-up time" with these spiritual older men. And yes, that included rape. All of them promised to "make love with you in the Garden of Heaven" when we got there. My own dad denied ever touching me(while fondeling my breasts) and said the devil was just attacking me, and to fight him off by, and i quote, "kissing daddy's penie" To this day, he denies ever doing anything wrong, and "gets mad at the system for lying to God's little lambs.." (reply to this comment)

From cocomojo Monday, February 07, 2005, 22:45 (Agree/Disagree?) That is so sick! I know one real good reason I could be driven to kill, and that is if someone touched my little girl. But for a father to do that... That is beyond sad, I don't think there's a term I can think of that would adecuately express my horror at such a heinous act. I'm so sorry for you, on behalf of decent males everywhere I hope you can find peace. I'm left speechless. (reply to this comment)

From dave Wednesday, July 24, 2002, 18:32 (Agree/Disagree?) This is so sad. This type of pain, shock and confusion probably takes a lifetime to heal from, if at all. Quite a number women I know who grew up in the Family, including ex-girlfriends, have similar and disturbing stories of things that occurred "on the field". You'd think they were talking about some of the horrors that took place in the jungles of Apocalypse Now. You should consider taking your dad to court. Some sort of vindication or judgment against him may help to alleviate some of the hurt, guilt and depression. I don't know. My area is in IT, not legal. I'm sure some of our peers on this site that have law degrees and those who are experts of the legal system and criminal law would be glad to offer some confidential and professional advice (if they haven’t done so already). Sincerely, Dave (reply to this comment)

From alkamist Monday, February 07, 2005, 22:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Who are you and why do you have multiple ex girlfriends that were in the Family? Do you prey on ex-cult members or something? I'd really love to know, because that's a little weird. Oh & don't bother giving advice to survivors from our background... Unless you were there & lived the abuse you can't possibly imagine how rampant it was (and is, I'm sure - I keep a healthy distance) & how little we would accomplish by taking a few people to court. Our goal is the complete dissolution of the cult. A lofty goal, I know, but a necessary one. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 08:19 (Agree/Disagree?) My sentiment toward the cult range from apathy to rabid anger. But I would caution you against making broad statements. "Our goal is the complete dissolution of the cult."- This is a fine goal for you to have to be sure, just clarify who "our" is. I frequent this site and it sure isn't MY goal. I'd be happy just to see the individual criminals in jail. Let the crazies believe what they will.(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 07:26 (Agree/Disagree?) I think you're taking this a little out of proportion. There are far more ex-Family men who have or have had girlfriends that are also ex-Family. In my opinion, this is not a matter of "preying" but rather because both people feel compatible (often, it appears, naively so) due to a common background. I'll leave it up to Dave to let you know who he is, but I can personally vouch for the fact that he is an ex-Member. I used to live with him. Alkamist, you seem a little out of touch with the sentiments of many ex-members, so allow me to clarify: 1) The abuse you speak of is no longer rampant in the Family. Period. The fact that its leadership still secretly condones such abuse, is another matter all together. 2) You say "Our goal is the complete dissolution of the cult". Speak for yourself. It certainly isn't my goal and there are over a hundred people who signed the open letter to the Family that states: "Many [Family members] want to make the world a better place. We have no desire to impede such efforts, nor to infringe on the fundamental right to believe and practice ones religion, which does not harm others or impede their fundamental freedoms." Attempting to destroy the Family would be attempting to infringe on their right to believe as they wish. While I wouldn't shed a tear if/when The Family dissolves, I, for one, prefer to let this happen to them on their own account.(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 09:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Agreed, JW! While I am all for dissolution of TF's present leadership hierarchy, I do not have anything against the typical, grassroots member of TF. There are many sincere people in the cult who are working for a 'better world' in a way they feel is best for them, and however deluded I may feel they are, they have a right to live the way they want. I have no desire to see homes closed down and loving families disrupted. My family (parents and seven siblings) is still in, and although I wish that my siblings would choose a different path in life, I have to accept that they will need to make that choice for themselves. My parents, well, they are happy (or they think they are, which in a sense means that they are) and I feel they should be allowed to continue living the lifestyle they have chosen. The complete dissolution of the cult is not my goal. Justice for those who suffered at the hands of sexual predators and sadistic freaks, is. (reply to this comment)

From Nancy Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 10:28 (Agree/Disagree?) AGREED!!! Even me, one of the more vocal advocates for legal justice, doesn't want the cult to be "destroyed." Let them believe and live as they choose. We would just like an accounting from those individuals in the cult responsible for abuse. That is not the whole cult. Many of the cult's second generation members, our own siblings, are completely innocent. Let them live as they see fit. Our beef is with the cult's leadership which condoned and advocated sexual and physical and mental abuse. Let them answer for themselves and not hide behind their members, especially innocent members. We are not all rabid advocates for destruction of the cult. I don't know anyone who wants that. I don't know anyone who supports violence. Everyone I know wants no harm to come to innocent parties, no raids, no false accusations. Everyone I know is interested only in exposing the truth and only the truth. I think this tragic event involving Ricky has actually helped many of us define in our minds what we really define as justice and what we would really like to see happen. That is not to see anyone else hurt or any violence committed. What we would like is the truth to be told and those responsible for abuse to account for their actions, nothing more. I don't know anyone who wants anything more, and I know some of the most vocal spokespersons among us. (reply to this comment)

From celestej Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 03:35 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't understand-  How can any of you think that the continuation of the cult can ever be positive or harmless?  Remember who runs it?  Karen Zerby-  David Berg's handmaiden-  Remember that?  Do you think she's changed?  She's as evil as Berg was!  There is no possibility that anyone under her influence should be allowed in society, and should certainly not have children in thier care.  I'm really shocked to hear anyone say that Family members should be allowed to live thier lives "as they choose"- I'm sure that's was the philosophy of outsiders, as Family members chose to beat and molest us.  The only way to insure that these children do not suffer the same fate as we is to dissolve the cult.  That's the ONLY solution.(reply to this comment)

from Rae Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 09:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Creepy you should say that Sarafina.. When I was 12 I was abused by a guy who was around 40.. I didn't tell any one for 2 years, I was just embarrassed to talk about it, for some odd reason i felt it was my fault that he noticed me Once I tried to tell my sister (who was around 11) that I didn't like being around him because he was always touching my butt when he hugged me, but she just scoffed and said it was nothing cuz he did that to her all the time.. I never considered it child abuse until when I was 17 it hit me. I bet there are millions of stories, a poll could be interesting. (reply to this comment)

from Kate Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 15:09 (Agree/Disagree?) I think a poll is a very good way of finding out. If not here perhaps you could start one in ex-family Youth Group. (reply to this comment)

from sarafina Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe you should start a poll. I'm not sure how but I've seen a few polls on this site. Ask jules about it. Just to see. I think it's happened to alot..more then we relise. Some just don't like talking about it. Some Don't even relise they were because you just thought it was normal. As I mentioned in another post I liked the attention it made me feel important but weither I liked it or not a 30 or 40 yr old guy should not be touching a 12 or 14 yr old girl. Weither I concented or not you'd be going to jail for statutory rape if it happened out here. (reply to this comment)

From ForgetIt,ItsMine Thursday, January 15, 2004, 05:11 (Agree/Disagree?) It's awful to think of all the children who were sexually abused in TF......and they all deserve retribution.....I've never told anyone about any of the stuff that happened to me, it's not that easy, but as early as five years old I remember running from a man in the middle of the night who went into the room where I slept and started touching me. I remember quite vividly running from him more than several nights, and it almost always ended up in me tripping and falling down the stairs.....I still remember waking up at the bottom of the stairs. I don't know who he is but I wish I did so I could track him down and make him pay. (reply to this comment)