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Getting Out : Creeps
James Rudow aka Ezra | from brixton slum - Thursday, July 28, 2005
accessed 9883 times One day we will meet again. James Rudow, aka Ezra (American), lives in the TNT home, Tokyo, Japan.
Ezra (James Rudow) use to be the 'shepherd' of a home in Tokyo that my family lived in. From my own personal experience, Ezra is the King-Kong of ass-holes. This guy is a seriously sadistic child abuser. He went far above the call of duty, when dispensing standard Family 'disciplining'. In many case he would abandon the usual implements of discipline (i.g. paddle, bat, metal hanger) and just kick the shit out of us with his fist.
To this day I have nightmares of what he did to my younger siblings and me. And not just of the physical abuse, but the sexual as well. He use to make us watch as he sat butt-naked, with a hard-on, singing songs to Jebus. Which would, later in the evening, progress in to full on sex with one of many national women he surrounded himself with.
When my sister turned 8 he started making advances towards her. (According to her wishes, I am not going to go into detail of the things he did to her or the things he made her do.) What I can say is, the desperate sounds of her pleading, crying and screaming for him to stop, and the way in which she use to beg me to do something, which I could not, will never leave me.
It's not easy writing about this, especially in such a public form. It would be so much easier to keep (what happened to us) deep down within and never talk about it. And for many years we have; even now it's difficult for us to talk about the past, even between the two of us. What made it even harder to talk publicly about what Ezra did is, that so many consider this man 'a really nice guy'. Who would believe us?
Last week I came across a a photo of him, posted on his daughter's blog; my blood boiled over. I had to say something |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from scorpion
Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 09:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
its better to die on ur feet then to live on ur knees. get my flow
(reply to this comment)
| from Baxter
Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 16:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
It's the ones you know and never suspected that really bother you! Is this true!? (DON'T bother answering- rhetorical question!) I admit, he was one person I never would have suspected. And that recognition is by itself rather disturbing. (I don't even need to think about the rest!)
If I think about this any more I'm gonna get paranoid.
(reply to this comment)
| from Mia29
Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 00:40
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I personally knew E for many years in "the group", its been over 12 years now, but honestly I have a very hard time believing some of the accusations posted here. If they are indeed true, then, MY GOD! I was extremely dense... I honestly felt he was a very straight-up human being. When I chose to leave "the group" he was the one I had to appeal to and believe it or not he not only encouraged it but aided my departure.
Its hard for me to wrap my head around some of the things that are being said here... if they are indeed true, then God Help him! He's doomed! And he will pay, albeit through us or karma, that is life. On the flip side, if they are no true.. What more can I say....
Let us not prey upon the innocent in our quest to vindicate the aggressors.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from SuzieQ
Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
FUCK YOU ALL!!! You fuckers have NO idea what you are talking about. You should at least know a thing or two about ANYTHING before spouting your fucking mouths off. Maybe you should actually ask someone who was fucking abused by their ACTUAL fucking stepfather and who is now actually taking care of THE ONLY blood child of this fucker! FUCK OFF you posers!!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Ne Oublie
Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 05:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
To the mods:
Out of curiousity, why was nowayjose's post sent to the Trailer Park?
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from big king kong
Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 04:54
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Okay well you dont say who you are and who your sister is? I could say shit about any fga in the Fam and I'm sure a lot of you would agree with me just because its politically correct.
(reply to this comment)
| | | |  From Jules
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 12:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is really wrong. If you really think that a survivor of abuse who has the courage to talk about it is being "politically correct", then the Family's brainwashing really did do a number on you. Sorry to be so blunt, but your behaviour here is completely inappropriate and unacceptable. To "BrixtonSlum", I am very sorry that this person has been so cruel. What happened to you already was horrible enough, for this person to attempt to revictimise you is very wrong.
Nancy made a very good point below. Rather then get so worked up over people expressing anger and revenge fantasies online, why not get angry about the REAL LIFE VIOLENCE that did occur to these children? What the hell is wrong when "beating the crap out of children" equates to "a nice guy"?
I used to think that the Family was a relatively safe place now for children. However, given the pyschopathic lack of empathy and vitrolic hate campaigns by some of our peers who are Family members and/or apologists, I am really starting to wonder. What kind of a parent would these people make? If something was to happen to their own children, would they really protect them or would they denounce them as liars as well?
Given the FACTS: abuse occurred in the Family, sexual abuse of children was promoted in their publications (which were on the same level to followers as the Bible), not one abuser has ever been turned over to authorities but many were given plum leadership positions and large grants by the FCF, is it any wonder that the odds are that FGAs did participate in abuse? I'm sure not every member of Al Queda has directly participated in terrorism, but you know, I think the odds that they have are pretty high.
I am so tired of the inability of Family members and apologists to remember their OWN DAMN HISTORY. Even when they documented it, video taped it, photographed and circulated evidence, it seems almost daily, they attempt to erase their own past, even straight out inventing complete and utter nonsense.
The past cannot be changed, no matter how much we all wish it could be. How about doing something about the present and the future? Making amends. Giving support to those that were hurt. Showing some compassion and care and understanding. Holding people accountable for their own behaviour. If you cannot do this, or at the very least show some basic human decency, then I am going to ask you to please stay off this web site. Perhaps you can write up a nice testimony stating that this situation that you know nothing personally about is a lie and you can send it off to myconclusion.com to be posted with all the other such statements. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Nancy
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 17:37
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I recently chatted with a woman I knew way back when. She was a friend in childhood, but I didn't know her as well as others. She ran in different circles, even in a cult, go figure. At any rate, she was telling me a little about what happened to her, her siblings and her friends. She told me about what happened after I left to even cult celebrities, folks I knew, but not personally, and who I didn't think suffered as much.
Well, I was wrong! I was so wrong! They all suffered, every single one of them, some worse than others, but it happened and nothing can undo it.
All this to say that I am more and more convinced that NO ONE went unscathed. EVERY child suffered! That takes a lot of perpetrators to abuse so many hundreds, no thousands, of children. It sounds so fantastic. But, truth is stranger than fiction. When I start remembering names of so in so and their seven brothers and sisters, and so in so and their five siblings and ten step-siblings, etc, I realize how many thousands there were whose lives were marked, some destroyed.
What a terrible tragedy! Even now 14 years out I can be moved to tears for folks I barely knew and what happened to them. That cult is full of monsters, and anyone who says different is lying!
So many names come up over and over and over, Paul Peloquin, Mark and Serena, Eman Artist, James Rudow, Terrance McNally, Terrance McClure, Philip Sloan and on and on. So many independent stories told by individuals who don't know each other and from different countries, but the same repetative stories of abuse and the MO of each perp, whether pedophile, sadist or just plain power monging abuser.
Well, even Ted Bundy was said to be charming. He was a law student. He was certainly intelligent. Yet, none of those qualities contradicted the fact that he was a monster.
So, enough already with the character witnesses! That evidence is irrelevant. It doesn't contradict the mountainous evidence that these perps were criminals. And for all their blustering on mydelusion, in the media and even here from time to time, there has never emerged one shred of exculpatory evidence in anything they've spewed.
It does get tiresome to hear over and over. The "well, there was different kinds of sharing, sharing of food, sharing of clothes" denials do wear on us. Yet, no one is going to get away with rewriting our history. There are too many of us, who don't even know eachother, telling the exact same story of abuse. It's certainly not going to fly here of all places.
It is strange how anyone with half a heart from back when I was trapped in that cult has gotten out. Strange how all the hardcore sadists stayed. Strange how all the manipulative, power-hungry abusers were always on top and the half decent sincere folks were the ones being taken advantage of. Strange how all this was going on in a cult that was supposed to be all about LOVE. Strange how power corrupts in any context. Strange how most of the truly evil through and through are still left.
You know, my own mother is a sad case. I feel pity for her. She can be kind. She can seem as though she has a heart. Yet, she is capable of beating her own child, and worse, standing by while someone else does it to the point the child screams in pain and is left bruised and scarred, even a child as young as nine months old. I'm sure there are folks out there who say my mother is a nice person. True on occasion. Even I have some fond memories. Yet, that does not erase the fact that my mother is a child abuser who stood by while her own three small children under the age of five were beaten with a belt and pillows stuffed over their faces to muffle their screams. What for you ask? For being children and playing too loud that the neighbors could hear that their was more than one child living in the tiny apartment.
I and my brother live every day with the knowledge and fear that the phone call will come to inform us that our other brother has died. We know he will die young. We know it as sure as we know the sun will rise in the morning. Why? Because our mother and her husband under the direction and supervision and doctrine and practice of that cult killed our brother when he was still a teenager. What walks the earth now is but a husk of the brother we once had. He is gone, although his body is still here. That cult killed him years ago through torture of the worst kind, the kind that kills the human spirit slowly and painfully. It is just a matter of time before we bury what is left of him. His body bears, literally, the burn marks, the cut marks and the beating marks on his back, arms and legs. Those were the marks inflicted on a 12 year old who didn't make his quota again on the streets of Mexico. Yet, those marks mean nothing. What killed him were the marks they inflicted on his beautiful spirit. They did it slowly and methodically. They stripped him of all he was as an individual, as a boy and as a child. And when he came to live with me at 17, it was too late. He was already gone. There was nothing left to save. Five years of trying taught me that.
So, tell me that my mother is a nice person. Yes, she can be. Yet, she is also a child abuser. She is a "Christian" and a monster. She is a mother and a sadist. She is kind and she is calculating. She is loving and she is dangerous. She is a 20 plus year cult member with all that comes with it, including the destruction of her children's lives to show for it.
Mother, I love you. I always will. But, when Tom is dead you will be not only our mother, you will also be a murderer.
Yes, I feel for you. I pity you. I pray for you. I pray that one day the "love" you showed us will no longer affect us. I pray that the scar that "love" left on us will one day fade. I pray for a time when my siblings don't write songs, compose poetry or create art based on the pain the "love" you showed us left.
I also pray for the strength to one day face you and tell the world and a court of law what a loving and kind person you were and how much I loved you and love you still despite the fact that you are a child abuser. I pray for the strength to do it and to see you finally answer for the life you stole from Tom, sweet kind Tom, broken and lost Tom, Windy and all her artistic beauty and conflicted pain, John, my beloved, brilliant John, Christina, lost, innocent, motherless Christina, Claire, unknown, but not forgotten Claire, Caleb, unabashed, strong, battered baby Caleb and Sarah for whom there are no words.
Yes, I will stand up for you mother, just as those anonimous posters here do. I will tell the world you are a nice person and that I love you. I will also tell them about the black eyes you gave Tom, the times you drug Windy by her hair, the wire clothes hanger marks you gave me across my face and the make-up you covered it with, the bruises that you or your husband inflicted on Caleb's naked body before he could even speak and all the times you stood back and watched me and your other children beaten under the direction of the cult. I will tell them all this and more. But, I will still love you, even when I visit you behind glass.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From lotstoforget
Saturday, September 10, 2005, 02:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Nancy, just a question here: if all this you say about your mother is true, why haven't you dragged her into court yet? You probably know where she lives, let's get with it!
This is the problem we're facing on this site, we rant and rave, complain about the fact that the Family has not handed over anyone to justice, blah, blah, but neither have we.
The Family will never hand over anybody, let's face it. I don't think they feel that's their job. If those of us that have evidence and first hand experience with abuse don't do it, nobody ever will. (reply to this comment) |
| | From lotstoforget
Saturday, September 10, 2005, 02:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Nancy, just a question here: if all this you say about your mother is true, why haven't you dragged her into court yet? You probably know where she lives, let's get with it!
This is the problem we're facing on this site, we rant and rave, complain about the fact that the Family has not handed over anyone to justice, blah, blah, but neither have we.
The Family will never hand over anybody, let's face it. I don't think they feel that's their job. If those of us that have evidence and first hand experience with abuse don't do it, nobody ever will. (reply to this comment) |
| | From monger
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 13:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Jules, I strongly agree with almost everything you state above, and I too was put off by the flip, callous remarks of "big king kong", but I don't personally think skeptisism is an entirely unnatural reaction.
As it relates to this thread, I know James Rudow and his children, but am not able to say the same about BrixtonSlum, directly or otherwise. I'm no stranger to learning that Family adults I previously considered nice people had very sordid pasts, or finding that my family & closest friends were on the receiving end. I have no desire to "defend" the Family and I'm not very comfortable with my comments that can be portrayed as such, but in any case, I'm just saying it's normal for people to defend their friends, family or people they knew when they don't feel they know enough about the accusations.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 14:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
I understand your point and I do agree that it is natural for people to defend their friends and family. How many arguments have taken place on here because of this very reason? I think the core issue is that when people don't know enough about the accusations, they can ask for more information and clarification without attacking, belitting or demeaning the victim. Mindless loyalty without even investigating for one's self is the root of most of the problems that occured and continue to occur in the Family. (reply to this comment) |
| | From ErikMagnusLehnsher
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 15:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
Instinctively any account of any adult violently raping an 8 year old child makes my blood boil. I would agree, of course, that treating anyone who brings up such an accusation with disrespect, a la King Kong, is wrong. However, based on many comments on this thread, many have already judged the accused and found him guilty of this hideous crime and discussed suitable judgments. IMHO, this is a dangerous and unhealthy dynamic.
I think the accusations in this case (made by Brixton and "Someone who knows") could fall into 2 categories:
1) Being a negligent and crappy father, a strict disciplinarian and brainwashed Family drone.
2) Violently raping an 8 year old child.
Regarding #1, many of our parents can be described in such terms. If someone wants to rant about their own parents that's one thing. If someone were to publicly and anonymously rant about what a piece of shit MY dad is, because of what happened to me and my siblings, I'm probably going to tell them to STFU. As the old saying goes: "blood is thicker than water".
Regarding #2, this is, of course, a far more serious accusation involving a third party. I don't personally know either of the parties involved in this and I obviously want to see anyone who has commited such a vile crime (inside or outside TF) face justice. Yet, we must also acknowledge the fact that an anonymous tip should be seen for what it is and not as conclusive evidence.
Going back to the Al Queda example: Al Queda is comprised, for the most part, of Arabs who are Muslims. Yet, not all Arab Muslims are sympathic towards or members of Al Queda. Are Arabs in the West worthy of increased scrutiny? Some certainly are. But's that's different from assuming that they are all terrorists.
Assuming that any of our parents who were in TFI at any time participated in violently raping young children based solely on their membership and an anonymous account is not something that I am ready to do.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Monday, August 08, 2005, 03:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
One large difference I see is that for a large part parents in TF abdicated parental responsibility, almost it seemed with eager-out stretched arms, when their "one wife" REVOLUTION and other such nonsense REVOLUTIONS took place (I lose track of each).
My point is TF cannot have their cake and eat it. If they gave up individual parental responsibility, then EACH TF adult must assume they EACH hold (or held) FULL responsibility as a parent for EACH child.
Regardless of whether this guy was their biological "dad", how often did that make any difference to the actual role he may have played? We've all seen TF's ways, some of us we're lucky enough to have more than one "daddy" in a single year (depending on who was the biggest swinging King Kong Dick!!).
If abuse did happen in this case, then it is not merely "child abuse" by a stranger, but it is abuse by someone who had a parental role, and most likely a clear form of incest!! - I sure hope if he ends up in Jail he gets to be the sweet pea of some authentic King Kong types...(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From ErikMagnusLehnsher
Monday, August 08, 2005, 21:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hi Jules. In case you don't hear it enough, I really appreciate having this forum. Your steadfast and unwavering support for victims never ceases to amaze me. The experiences you've shared here, the strength and bravery you've demonstrated, the articles you've written...I can't express how much respect I have for you. I know it sounds like I'm just schmoozing but I really do mean it.
I'm always reluctant to even comment on threads like this because of the high level of emotion and sensitivity of the topic at hand. I suppose being a male, I already lack a sensitivity chip and despite my best efforts will often offend without intending to do so. If the account of violent rape was against some childless FGA, I wouldn't have even ventured into the conversation. FGA's can defend themselves. But when I read the sad accounts of what some of Chris's siblings endured I couldn't help but shake my head and think about how intensely personal those things were and how wrong it is that those matters be brought into a public forum by someone other than the victims themselves.
My departure from TF was hastened by the fact that despite having it repressed for years, I am at heart an analytical skeptic and a lousy follower. I'm particularly leery of anonymous statements that are accepted without reservation when they are damaging and hurtful to other members of this forum.
Understandably this is a forum and not a court of law. Victims SHOULD be able anonymously share their accounts and be supported rather than grilled. It’s just tough to watch a participant be put in the untenable position of trying to defend their personal family name and keep their siblings experience as private as they want it to remain when it's not stated where the incident occurred and who the accuser is. If that weren't enough, they get to read discussions of "black ops" missions to track down their father.
It seems like such an unfair weight for a participant here to bear. Perhaps this is the sad legacy that we are left with due to our parents decisions and the group they chose to associate themselves with.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Thursday, August 11, 2005, 20:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
Erik, thanks for the kind words. I get it where I can these days. :)
I hear what you are saying and given the weight The Family has put on the things said on this web site, I do understand the concerns you have. I don't think you "lack a sensitivity chip", nor do I think you don't care or understand what abuse victims have experienced and face now.
I agree with you that the comments about James's children should never have been made public. I strongly believe that we all own our own stories and no one should ever tell them but us. For anyone for any reason to bring another's story and name into the public eye is wrong. People should tell their own story, if or when they want to do so.
On a personal level I do totally understand your concern with Mack and his "Black Ops" comments. I think this whole topic (of acting out revenge fantasies) is worth some serious discussion. The feeling of wanting revenge however, is not wrong (feelings are not right or wrong, they are a reaction to what we experience) and I will not censor those feelings. I wrote below that my research has shown those feelings to be normal reactions to abusive treatment.
In the long run, however, what did Ricky accomplish by killing someone? Sure it got some media attention, but that means squat if there is no follow-through. A criminal or civil suit by Ricky as a plaintiff might have gotten just as much media attention. He told a fraction of what he knew. Imagine if he had told it all.
Are other survivors more at peace or less? Is The Family and other groups more likely to acknowledge their wrongdoing or has it fed into their persecution complex? Does The Family understand Ricky's rage and why he felt it, or has Angela Smith become a martyr, burned on the pyres of the evil Vandari demons?
When it comes to violence I personally believe it is wrong. To act violently towards an abuser is to descend to their level. To let them dictate who you are. We are the good guys. We are right. We have truth on our side. We WILL overcome.
As the owner of this site, I cannot always act on what I think myself, but more what I think is appropriate for people who have experienced what we all have. When I first built this web site I knew that anonymous accounts of abuse published on the internet were bound to be questioned at some point. More than that, I asked myself if it was ethical to engage in such accounts myself and to encourage others to come forward and name their abusers without legal evidence and anonymously.
Under most circumstances, no, it would not be ethical, and I have this discussion with a number of online ethics "experts". However, as Afflick articulated so well, the pendulum of justice has swung so far in the other direction that I think, at this point, this is the least I can do.
I do not agree that naming an abuser who is a friend or family member is "damaging to other participants". Every perpetrator everywhere is someone's father, son, brother, uncle or friend (or the female counterparts). The Family was not the Boy Scouts. It was a prostituting, paedophilic, deceiving, cultic group.
I totally understand how shameful and difficult it is to think that someone you care for or your own flesh and blood has done such a thing. However, I do not think that can be compared to the damage done by abuse.
Here's the thing. I myself do make up stories about my life. I make them up all the time. When a friend or colleague reminisces about their happy holidays as a child with their family, I laugh, smile and nod as though I know what that is like. When someone asks me why my parents are so bizarre, I laugh and say that they are just eccentric, not that they follow a dead guru and a blind mistress. When people want to know why I have lived in so many places, I say that my parents worked all over (instead of that they were led there by dreams their cult leader had). When my friends talk about their annoyance with their parents smothering them (sending them money all the time, getting too involved in their lives, buying them things, even doing their laundry), I laugh and pretend I know what that is like.
I have an active imagination and in my own life fantasy, my mother and father love me and would do anything protect me. My parents are role models for me and I admire and respect them. In my fantasy, they are intelligent and ethical I want to live up to their standards and make them proud of me.
To spell it out clearly, why would anyone invent a worse past for themselves. I think we all struggle to fit in, to be "normal". If we lie about our childhoods, we lie by inventing a happy, acceptable past for ourselves, that even we believe at times.
I wish I could forget the feelings images that flood my dreams and memories. I wish that my fantasies were real. The truth is that the reality of what happened is an unfair weight we all live with. It is not the fault of those who come forward and tell what was done to them. It is not the fault of those who are related to the perpetrators or even those who just don't want to know.
It is the fault of those who did what they did. They and they alone must stand accountable for what they have done. What we can do, right here and now, is to "bear witness" to what is told. We can listen to the victims, and what is more, hear and acknowledge them. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Jules
Monday, August 08, 2005, 10:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have two words for you: Guantanamo Bay. If you must attempt to run my analogies into the ground, at least get the facts right.
Do I really need to point out that web site is not a criminal court of law? If wishes were fishes, these people would have been locked up a long time ago. The actual accepted standard for burden of proof outside of a legal setting is on the more unlikely claim. I think the case has already been made for why a member of a cult that actively promoted child abuse is likely to have participated in that behaviour and those that did not were more likely to be exceptions. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From afflick
Monday, August 08, 2005, 18:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is not a cour of law. This is a website for children born in the COG. If someone has an accusation of abuse sustained while they were a minor and the offender an adult, that person need not get written permission to come forward with their story, nor are they required to ask all members of the accused family for their interpretation of events.
How much justice has been meted out to child victims of this cult? How much retribution received? Ummm....none! Perhaps this is the only way, the only time a victim feels safe enough to speak out about their experiences. I know that is true for me. I would have a very hard time if I had to tell my boss, my professers about my past. Here, I can be safe, and I assume this is true for most other posters, as well.
In the last eight months, we have reached an impass where our peers, our friends and lovers in TFI are telling us we are liars, we are demons, we are trying to distroy them. Those who used to giggle at our jokes and share our confidences are turned against us, trying to silence what is rightfully ours--our sincere experiences.
I never thought it would come to this, but it has. And now, you ask that we hold ourselves to the standard of a court of law?! Where was the court of law when my seven year old friend gave a blow job to the man who then took us care of us? Where was the court of law when I lay awake as a thirteen year old, watching the door and guarding it against horny roving adult men visitors? Where was the court of law when my friends and peers were placed on a sharing schedule at 12?
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Benz
Monday, August 08, 2005, 07:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm just glad some of us can still have a natural reaction to hearing stories of violence against children. - The angry feeling and violent reaction is all the more relevant when you consider the circumstances, and the number of abusers who have gone and will undoubtedly go unpunished.
You see, as members of society, we expect if we live by societies laws, society is bound to keep us safe those same laws. The feeling of "vigilante justice" comes from the knowledge that if society actually knew what injustice had been done, it would agree with the punishment and violence we felt had to be meted out.
The other day my boss (who knows nothing of my upbringing), was talking about a day a few weeks ago at his son's base ball game, where a shout had come from the park toilets that a kid had just been confronted (luckily not too seriously assulted) by a paedophile. The second the call was heard, every single one of the dads at the park was bat in hand giving chase with the pervert running for his life. The intention was not merely to scare him, if they had caught him, there would not have been much left for the police when they arrived.
Right away I felt right about that story. I knew right then I would be right there with my bat at the front of the pack. And if it was my kid, I wouldn't stop untill I caught the mongrel.
So yes, in short, I hope he is innocent. I know some of his kids, & always thought they were real nice people. I know how much it would hurt if this was said about my dad as well. (reply to this comment) |
| | from nowayjose
Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:41
| from ErikMagnusLehnsher
Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 22:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have a daughter. I also have a younger sister. If I walked in on anyone violently raping them at the fragile age of eight I would be their abuser's judge, jury and executioner right there and then. If it was reported to me, after the fact, I like to think I would be sensible enough seek justice through the legal system. However, if the abuser got off on some technicality, to be honest, I would probably pull a Carl Lee Hailey. Looking my daughter or sister in the eye while I knew their tormenter was smugly walking the streets would not be acceptable to me. I could not live with that situation. I suppose that would make me a vigilante but I hope I never have to find out. I don't think I can be any clearer on that issue.
I think it's fair to say that based on what we have seen, heard and read while growing up, there's not a whole lot that would shock us with regard to fucked up things that have happened in the TF. Because of that, I'm NOT comfortable with a process whereby one of our parents is publicly and anonymously accused of such a hideous, reprehensible act because it carries with it such serious implications. Most of us here have had at least one parent in the COG/TF at one time or another. In my case, my parents were stupid, idealistic dumbasses that joined a deceptive and predatory cult, wasted away some of the best years of their lives and have shit to show for it. But I don't believe my dad or mum would be physically capable of violently raping an 8 year old girl. If I did believe that, I would be the first one to turn them in despite the fact that I love them I will probably be caring for them as they become senior citizens. I think we can all agree that accusations of this magnitude and to this audience are very, very serious.
In the same way that it's too simplistic to say that because someone is an affable guy that they're not capable of committing a crime of this degree, it would be groupthink of CIA proportions to pass judgment on an individual accused of such a crime based on an anonymous accusation. For those of us that were brave enough to publicly stand up and give accounts of abuse that they suffered and identify abusers, I have nothing by solemn respect.
But, IMHO, if you're going to maintain your anonymity (which is understandable) you should not post public accusations that publicly identify individuals for these types of abuses unless you can do so without naming the alleged abuser. Example: "I am researching an act of abuse involving my (then) 8 year old sister and an adult man that occurred at the Fucktrees Home in Osaka between 1989 and 1990. I need the abuser's legal data and their current location in order to press charges. If you were there, please contact me via email as I will need witnesses to corroborate details in order to proceed with the case against this abuser." Giving the bastard a "heads up" would be the last thing I would do.
(reply to this comment)
| from mia1
Monday, August 01, 2005 - 17:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
just a question..
whats wrong with promoting violence, I mean if you could get ahold of one of these abusers why not kick the shit out of them... I mean they would never go to the police...
so we don't promote violence, but hey we were raised with it..I really don't care but if someone did beat the crap out of some old perve I wouldn't care as long as they don't go overboard. Besides if you let the basterd live he'll always live in fear, looking behind his back...hhmmm
(reply to this comment)
| From big king kong
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 05:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Why is that wrong?
Because it's against the law silly! And before you beat the crap out of someone I would hope that you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he really is guilty of such crimes.
How much did James know about the going ons of Eman? I don't think any Sgas would really know about it. What if he sincerely believed that at the time eman didn't do it? It's hard to say right now cause we don't really know. IMO you should be focusing on Eman, not James. (reply to this comment) |
| | From mia1
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 19:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
who the fuck are u calling silly!!!!Look it is a known fact the eman was a pervert from the 70's but they did nothing about it, any parent why stands by while their children are violated, abused, and deprived, deserve more then a beating! You also have to realize that most fga's would rather believe the good in people then in the terrible reality that surrounded them, if james was good or bad it doesn't matter, he chose to close his eyes to the abuse that happened around his as did most fga's, the family lives in a bubble, a putrid disgusting existance, the eat sleep and surround themselves with the their own mental shit, they don't want to believe that there is a world around them, they are so selfish that they would rather ignore the screams and pain of their own children then admit their wrongs, they would rather stay asleep in their nice little shit-filled bubble then brave the reality that surrounds them, they are the worst because they will never see the terrible abuse committed against their own, they will go to their graves thinking they have done all they could and only the fires of hell can wake them to the reality the they truely are, monsters.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From monger
Thursday, August 11, 2005, 17:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
The baby lived, but yes Hugo Westphal (aka Eman Artist, Snowy, etc., see: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Hugo_Westphal ) fractured their baby's skull in a fit of rage. The Mo Letter about Genesis being a witch was written specifially because of the incident...Berg being the prophet he was assumed she'd done it. The Family kicked the bastard out around 1980 for severely abusing numerous women & children over an extended period, but later he joined again and lived at the HCS in the early 90s. I don't know when he left the 2nd time or under what circumstances, but there have been reports of him abusing children during that time with the Family in Japan. He still works for the group from time to time, being paid to do artwork for some of their publications from outside the Family.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From big bad king kong
Monday, August 08, 2005, 06:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
TF members who still rape their children??? WHat in gods name are you talking about? You should know that any adult/minor sex is banned and is excommunicable. You think that stuff is still going on? Geeez
Your black ops mission is crazy, first of all whos gonna pay for these black ops? Are you gonna fund it?
What country do you live in? Whatever happened to the good old American belief that a man is innocent until proven guilty? (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From thray
Monday, August 08, 2005, 07:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
yep, not long ago, a CM member raped and abused a few kids from the oldest girl to the younger ones in one family (big) family and was allowed to leave bec. the other homes in the area will be in jeopardy or the kids may be taken away by the social services and would become a bad repercusion to the whole AREA.(in ASIA) (reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 16:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have personal knowledge of this situation.
Very, very sad and horrible. Happened just recently in Thailand.
The family in question was that of Thai John and his Dutch wife. This was the fellow who made the "Uncle John Teaches Thai" videos back in the days.
He is one of the longest standing Thai "Nationals", and has a huge slew of children. The perpetrator was a Malaysian national, although it may be the case that he held another nationality or a passport, I'm still investigating this situation. He was a single man, who was their "childcare helper."
He systematically molested and raped most all of Thai John's children, from the very oldest to the very youngest. This is not ancient history, this happened a very short while ago.
One of my friends that I grew up with, an SGA, reported this to the ASCRO leadership, which is headed by Richard Douthit, aka, Steven Silas, or Steven CRO, an ex drug dealer with a criminal and jail record out of Florida. He was also one of the leaders who ran Music with Meaning, and has a long history of sexual abuse, rape and exploitation of minors, starting in Music with Meaning and going on through to Philippines and afterwards. He also "upgrades" his partner every few years, and seeks sexual access to second-generation members as a matter of course. I've counted all of his children and so far the count is at over 20, that he's littered the world with. His first wife, Sandra Gail Douthit, aka Endureth/Joan was last reported running the cult's Middle Eastern operations out of Amman, Jordan. She and other American cult members make frequent visits to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Iraq.
Both of his daughters, Renee Douthit, (goes by the name of Joanna in the group, lives in Thailand, and is married to "Ronny" the oldest son of Dutch Ben and Miriam), and Daniela Douthit, from his first marriage to Sandra, were extensively abused, molested and sexually exploited in the Music With Meaning location and afterwards. They subsequently were asked to dance naked for Berg on the same videotape as their mother. There is video evidence of this. Sandra Gail Douthit also featured prominently in hard-core straight and lesbian pornography produced by Paul Pelloquin at Berg's request. Video evidence of this still exists and has been preserved and digitized. Both of his daughters have lied on myconfusion.com about not having ever been abused. Well, every liar has his or her day. I've archived their denials because after this post and the subsequent release of their videos dancing naked as little girls for Berg, that content will be removed in typical cultic, "lie and cover our ass", style.
Renee Douthit was falsely imprisoned in the Macau location at the same time as Merry Berg, and was subject to the same forced labor, educational privation, physical abuse and probably sexual abuse as and exploitation meted out to the "victors" at that location.
When Samuel Charles Perfilio (John P.I. / Matthew) impregnated a 14-year-old girl in the Philippines, the paternity of the child was a toss-up between him and Richard Douthit, who had also been having full sexual relations with this and other very young minors in the Philippines. -- Exactly the type of person Berg liked to promote to "CRO" positions. If you were an abuser Berg could count on you not to turn on him because you were implicated in crimes against minors as this fellow, Richard Douthit is.
I digress.
The point is that Richard Douthit, and all of the CRO leadership in ASCRO were made aware of these horrific crimes that were being committed against, and the very severe abuse suffered by Thai John's children at the hands of this CM member. They had the opportunity to advocate on behalf of justice for these victims. They did nothing. They had an opportunity to send the perpetrator to jail, they did nothing. They deliberately tried to keep the whole abuse situation hush-hush in order not to draw attention to themselves or bring "persecution" on the work. Probably had more to do with Richard Douthit's desire to keep his little empire intact and continue to bang cult women, the latest being a 20-some year old SGA who was a JETT when I was a teenager, whom he's duped into being his new mistress, while he pockets monies made by Swedish Jonas' (an SGA who speaks and sings in Thai fluently) recording contracts and concert appearances, (he claims there are no profits, which is a lie, he doesn't want to have to give the monies to W.S., he is pocketing a substantial portion of those funds) while he feathers his nest back in the United States with an ex-high school buddy who is now a securities trader.
This incident is not ancient history. It happened in the very recent past. Any legitimate organization would seek justice. They did nothing. They threatened people (counseled them) to say nothing, while they let this predator into society and left the children to grapple with the long-term effects of rape by this complete pervert. Yep, those are the "loving shepherds", who "give their lives for the sheep". More like sacrifice the lives of the sheep for themselves.
Plenty of abuse continues to occur in this group, and the leadership shelters and hides criminals, as well as covers up instances of abuse that they've known about and that were reported to them just so they don't look bad. What type of parenting is that? Makes my blood boil.
How can a criminal like Richard Douthit ever advocate for justice on behalf of Thai John's children when he himself is such a seasoned rapist of young girls and teenagers.
Back to work.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Big Sister
Tuesday, August 09, 2005, 12:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
Nobody tried to stop the rapist before he or she got in to this family. Why not? Must be the rapist was "allowed to leave" the last place he/she lived and all the adults were too afraid or weak do anything about it.
Someday the children in this case and many others are going to ask their parents why they were so weak and unethical that they were unable to protect
their own children or care about what might happen to other children. Yeah, system children have a right to be protected from a known rapist too.
Think about it, Family members who may be reading this: your choice to isolate yourself from society means you can get trapped with criminals who are stuck (or hiding out) with you too. And your choice to believe you are superior to normal society is made at the expense of being taught manipulative people skills instead of independent thinking skills. And get this: criminals survive best in places where people avoid thinking and tough questioning.(reply to this comment) |
| | From celina
Thursday, August 11, 2005, 07:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
this big family needed help help from single folks, anyone who'd be willing to be CC worker so they can survive in this place....real sad situation....when leadership found out, they let the bastard go scot free.hush hush.the situation ...I was furious ....that was the time when 5 year old Samantha in California was abducted and there was so much about child abusers in the news too. he said he heard in prophecy about raping the kids....blah blah blah.
The thing is I reported this creep a few months before to leadership...that something was not right, something fishy was going on. NOTHING happened. he was honored as a sacrificial CC worker.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Big Sister
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 11:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
Actually, I am directly my comments TO them, not about them. And I do think this is an excellent venue for addressing anyone in TF who is beginning to ask hard questions and search for answers that make sense to them. Family members who seek out this web site are self selected as people who are struggling to learn independent thinking skills.
Sure, the endtime army sends some soldiers over here to "spy" on the enemy.
But endtime soldiers, by their very definition, don't need independent thinking skills.(reply to this comment) |
| | From ..........
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 08:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
The main reason they might not read what we say about them would be due to the fact that they aren't allowed to. Even though, from what I remember of being in TF, we kids usually found a way of sneaking what we wanted without getting caught. We were taught how to hide and lie real well, Zerby, your sick ass, gets the credit for this.
We had the most manipulative, lying, deceitful teacher ever.(reply to this comment) |
| | From kjh
Monday, August 08, 2005, 07:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
yep, not long ago, a CM member raped and abused a few kids from the oldest girl to the younger ones in one family (big) family and was allowed to leave bec. the other homes in the area will be in jeopardy or the kids may be taken away by the social services and would become a bad repercusion to the whole AREA.(in ASIA) (reply to this comment) |
| | From jdk
Monday, August 08, 2005, 07:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
yep, not long ago, a CM member raped and abused a few kids from the oldest girl to the younger ones in one family (big) family and was allowed to leave bec. the other homes in the area will be in jeopardy or the kids may be taken away by the social services and would become a bad repercusion to the whole AREA.(in ASIA) (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From big bad king kong
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 22:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
mia1; if believing in justice and equality for all equates being a current member you are sadly mistaken. I DO NOT justify the acts that these perverts did, they should admit their crimes and face whatever legal punishment that they deserve. Or if they don't want to admit it we can prosecute em.BUT I DO NOT believe in vigilante groups acting as the law! I still believe in the justice system flawed as it may be. I DO NOT believe in a facist or comunist legal system which is what some of U seem to be promoting. Everyone deserves a fair trial, yes even the ones in Guantamino. I DO NOT believe in shooting first and asking questions later. Cal me a pacifist if you want I really dont care.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From big bad king kong
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 21:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
It is because of people who promote violence on this board that I post anonymously. If it were known that I do not condone violence or have por family tendencies I'm sure a lot of you wouldn't talk to me face to face anymore. I'd rather keep my identity secret for now, I'm sure you'll understand for the same reason that many of you don't post your info. My goal is to settle things peacefuly between ex family members and current family members, thats my wish anyways. It really disturbs me all this talk about violence, there has to be some better solution. Mia I'm not scared of "family" I'm scared of people like you who think nothing of violence. (reply to this comment) |
| | From mia1
Thursday, August 11, 2005, 20:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
first off, I'm not some freak who 24/7 thinks of violence, I dont' know where u got that from, now who made u in charge of making peace between former members and current members????
and ur scared of me......now thats a laugh!!! u really are pathetic.....keep ur "james bond" identity secret it's not like I want to know who u are anyways....all hail to the "peacemaker"...whatever.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Safe Enviroment?
Monday, August 08, 2005, 14:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
The Family's current stance on Child Abuse is sick. The Charter was amended in 2003 changing what was Partial Excommunication to Probationary Notice. Essentially if a Family adult member has sex with a 14-year-old, that offending member is to be punished by means of "Probationary Status". When on "Probation" the member forgoes his right to vote for 6 months, cannot engage in sex outside of marriage for 6 months, nor can they drink, watch movies, listen to system music, surf the web and has a reading list for 6 months.
Breaking this down, if an adult man was to rape a 14 or 15 year old kid, that molester would be sentenced to 6 months of nothing but masturbation to Jesus. And if the parents of the victim decide to pursue legal action, they can do so but must leave TF during that time so that it doesn't hinder the "LORD’S work". Talk about endorsing the legal system and looking out for the rights of your children. The same thing goes for any legal action, the parties involved must leave the group until it’s settled. The sick thing is that it's to a wife's benefit for her husband to molest their 14 year old daughter and be placed on Probationary Notice, at least then she'd know for 6 months that he wouldn't be able to fuck around distributing Jesus babies and bringing home herpes. Safe environment, my ass. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From thinker711
Tuesday, August 09, 2005, 07:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
"No I don't think they are allowed to rejoin at all if they molest or rape someone. If it was in agreement then maybe yes."
Perhaps part of the problem here is our working definition of "rape" and "molest." Having ANY sexual contact with a child is wrong, period. It does not matter if the child is crying and kicking or just still and silent. There can be not "agreement" to have sexual contact between adults and minors. Children cannot "consent" to sex. The Family's definition (and apparently yours as well) of rape or sexual abuse involves the child kicking and screaming and the perpetrator pinning the child down. While this DID occur in the Family (this happened to my older sister in Mexico by "Big Juan"), most of the sexual abuse was more discreet. I know of instances where 5-8 little girls would all perform sexual acts on an "uncle" over a bottle of wine. They were pressured into it and were just obeying him the way we were all taught to. Many other instances involved an adult molesting or having intercourse with a child as she lay still and silently in her bed, terrified.
The family would not consider these instances abusive. They would say if it was done in love and was helpful then it can't be wrong. The truth is EVERY single instance of adult-child sexual contact was tremendously harmful. It really doesn't matter WHY the pervert engaged in sexual acts with a minor; whether he was "doing it in love" or out of lust is irrelevant (that said, it was always done out of lust). The fact is adult-child sexual contact is illegal and morally reprehensible. So the fact that you differentiate between whether the adult-child sex was "in agreement" indicates that you have a sick, twisted, cult-indoctrinated mentality. Listen to what you are saying. Sexual contact or ANY kind between an adult and a child is abusive, period. Granted, some experiences are more traumatic than others; however, it is NEVER permissible. There is no such thing as a "right" way to go about having sex or sexual contact with a child.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From sarafina
Tuesday, August 09, 2005, 00:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
I’m sorry but you are wrong. I actually know of a situation where a guy was excommunicated for molesting and was let back in 6 months later (or so) a year or two later was excommunicated again permanently for the same offence. I reported his behavior long before his initial excommunication and wrote a personal letter to the leadership (a CRO to be exact) and due to the personal relationship I had with this CRO he humored me and sent someone to look into it. The extent of the “looking” was merely asking the other Adults in the home about it to which they all said they knew nothing about and that I was just making it up and lying. I was punished for speaking out against the adult and became subject to his beatings (which I believe in which I was targeted by him due to reporting) My report was never taken seriously nor was it reported to authorities.
They forget they are NOT the LAW. The have a responsibility to protect children even if it means jeopardizing them selves and subjecting themselves to an investigation. IF they are truly NOT doing anything wrong why are they so afraid of the police and reporting crimes?
The point is not wither they do or do not excommunicate pedophiles but the fact that they do not report incidences to the proper authorities for proper investigations but wish to avoid attention by simply trying to cover it up or silently excommunicate them. The problem with it is they release these perverts into our society, into the very neighborhoods in which many of us are now raising our own families in and they are continuing to molest children (as in the case of this individual)
Bottom line. They think they are above the law and that they answer to no one other then “GOD” or their “Leaders” (reply to this comment) |
| | From Safe Environment?
Tuesday, August 09, 2005, 09:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sarafina is correct, TF repeatedly allows child abusers back in their fellowship as soon as 6 months are up if the abuser wants to rejoin - why? Because Jesus loves and forgives the sinner. I've seen it happen over and over where they've let molesters back in the door with a new clean slate. The only excoms that I know had a hard time rejoining were the ones that were heavy doubters, and most of those were stoked to be excommed anyway and didn't try to rejoin. To say that they have a policy of not allowing molesters back in the door would have to be proven to me in writing in order to be believable. To date the only policy I'm aware of is all contingent upon what the CC team determines on a case by case basis.
My point is this, excommunication is a joke any way you look at it. And as much as TF wants to impress upon the world how serious they are about creating and maintaining a safe environment for their kids, the reality is that an excom can have just as much contact with the home as they ever did, he just can’t "live" there. It's evident that TF is still molester friendly and if I were a sick pervert, that would be the group of choice for me. Eman Artist, one of the biggest motherfuckers I know, got caught raping one of my friends and the TF still kept him on their pay roll. And yes, sex with a minor is child rape even if that minor believed it to be consensual, it's still defined as rape.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From
Tuesday, August 09, 2005, 09:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
King Kong -
Grow the fuck up. Sex with minors was rampant in the 90's. I left in 99 and knew of 2 instances that year alone of teen girls that were abused by their dad and step dads, one was a fucking Iranian, the other a sleazy Japanese. The Japanese guy is a "star missionary" now working with the tsunami victims, his daughter is so fuck up that she's right there with him. Talk about sleazy Japanese, who remembers Japanese Samson getting caught with a hidden camera in the bathroom at the HCS, talk about a video ministry. In 94 my teen shepherds were still beating us, the uncle was continually fondling the girls and the wife was a walking whore and proud of it.
The problem is that pedophilia is not curable - period. Once a man has had a taste of the hidden fruit, there's no way known to cure them. They need to be under constant watch and if they're let loose on the street then they need to be in programs for life. The Family offers no program, no discipline, no law but a 6-month time out, they can't even comprehend the fact that it's incurable.
Believe me, sex with minors is still happening today, it happened in the 80's, the 90's and now the 2000's. You might not be hearing about it yet, that's just because the victims of the 90's don't feel old enough or strong enough to speak out as much as their older brothers and sisters that were abused in the 80's. One thing you'll hear more about is SGA's that committed abuse, be that sexual or physical in nature. It was indoctrinated into them at young ages, it's only common sense that some of them (NOT ALL) have grown up to be abusers. I've heard of quite a few already. There are a lot of people that need counseling and help in order to break the cycle. (reply to this comment) |
| | From big bad king kong
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 08:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
So now you wanna lump in the current sga lot as abusers right? there's a big difference in a 20 year old having sex with a 16 year old and a 40 something year old having sex with a 16 year old.
I don't condone the sgas having sex with minors but you'll find that the majority of cases it's with a 16 or 17 year old and in that case they are allowed to rejoin. If it was forced sex they are not permitted to rejoin, no way brother. I know of a fga who molested his daughter in law and he was excommunicated and not permitted to rejoin. His wife choose to stay with him and turn FM. I don't know why she did cuz she sure sounds stupid to stay with such a man.
I would not lump consensual sex together with rape and molestation(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From big bad king kong
Wednesday, August 10, 2005, 09:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sorry I haven't been of this site long enough to have read your article, that man sure sounds like a pervert tho. I hope he gets whats coming to him. I had my share of spankings and unfair punishment and even went to a victor program once. So I remember the hard times but I have never come across someone that was as terrible as this Peter guy. I doubt that anyone seriously beats their kids today tho if I'm correct you can only spank your kids with a soft slipper or something like that right? anyone read the charter recently? lol Unless they changed the charter since the early 2000's and reversed the rule. Doubt it tho (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From monger
Monday, August 08, 2005, 16:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
On second look, I was unnecessarily hard about your error. Of course, excommunication (without being reported to the authorities) is in reality no worse of a punishment than probation. And your statement about being required to "temporarily" leave The Family in order to settle child abuse issues with authorities is factual, not to mention quite disturbing.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Safe Enviroment?
Monday, August 08, 2005, 16:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
You're right, my bad. But here's one that really pisses me off, tell me if I'm wrong - If you're excommunicated for whatever reason, unless expressly forbidden by the CC, you can fellowship and visit with the home all day long. So it actually works out better for the molester to get ex-commed than put on probation because he can still hang out around the home all day, watch movies, do drugs, drink alcohol and have a 6 month vice spree all while still having contact with the home and the victim. He can also have all the sex he wants outside the group until he rejoins and probably can still have sex with his wife as well..? The best part about it - he doesn't have to tithe. He also knows that if the victim wants to pursue legal action, they'll be on the same page as him (have to leave TF) just without the "ex-com" title. In fact it’s probably worse that the victim would be bitter enough to put the whole work into jeopardy for their personal issues with the molester than the incident itself. (reply to this comment) |
| | From flutterfly
Monday, August 08, 2005, 17:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
If I remember correctly, if someone is excommunicated specifically for molesting a minor, they are not permitted to have any contact with any family homes & also not permitted to rejoin. There have been cases recently like the following: a younger SGA man (21) was excommunicated for having sex with a 17 year old girl (concensual). He is not permitted to rejoin. Another 22 year old kissed a 15 year girl & was excommunicated & not permitted to rejoin.(reply to this comment) |
| | From thinker711
Monday, August 08, 2005, 19:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Let's put this in perspective. Let's say a buddy of mine fondled my daughter. The following considerations would NOT go through my mine:
1) "Well, was it done in love?"
2) "Would I upset someone by saying something?" (i.e., don't want to piss off the "higher ups", as the ball-less king kong put it)
3) "I guess I'll no longer 'fellowship' with him" (i.e., excommunication).
What I would do is:
1) beat the ever-loving shit out of him
2) call the police and press charges
So even if Family members are, oh my gosh, excommunicated, their system is still twisted and sick. No caring individual would EVER allow a child to go through that, much less let the sick fuck who did it go unpunished (and BTW, excommunication is NOT a punishment, but rather a reward). (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Safe Environment
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 08:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's incorrect. Unless you can show me in writing that people who are excommed for sexual offenses are not permitted to visit, then it doesn't exist as a rule. I'm sure there are cases where the individual is told to stay away from the home for a certain amount of time, and there are others where the excommed is even too weird for TF, but as a general rule it's all case by case.
In my opinion, TF would rather the molester and the victim just "get over it". It saves face for them, period. It's not about the safety of their kiddos, it's about their image.
And for the "stating the facts about how they go about things these days", I know of an incident last year where a person was pointed out as a molester and all they did was banish him to the back room and put him on probation for 6 months... proving my point that it's case by case. Maybe the young guys you're referring to weren't valuable enough for TF to keep around. (reply to this comment) |
| | From thinker711
Monday, August 08, 2005, 21:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
I apologize for coming across as though I was attacking you. It's just that some people are missing the big picture: there has not been adequate punishment for these criminals nor retribution to the victims. It doesn't matter if the Family excommunicates them, shuns them, or condemns them to burn in hell with Berg; none of these sentences are adequate. They need to sincerely apologize, admit to wrong doing, and turn in known and accused perpetrators. No internal Family punishment is sufficient, especially when the biggest perpetrators are at the top, namely Zerby and Peter. (reply to this comment) |
| | from tuneman7
Monday, August 01, 2005 - 13:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
Somone made the comment about James' family being sent into a "tailspin." To my way of thinking it's James Rudow/Ezra who put his whole family in a "tailspin" by joining, supporting and being a leader in a group founded by a criminal, abusive, alcoholic, child rapist (Berg).
Sending his kids off the victor camps and all other type of nonsense. That man, not any victim is responsible for any heartache his family currently experiences as the result of his perverted actions and associations.
Also when it comes to naming specific perpetrators, I've seldom found it the case that some child who now grows into adulthood simply wakes up one morning and decide to falsely accuse someone across the sea. Actually, more often than not the victim decides to do nothing because of the shame they experience, and their desire to just be what our parents never gave us the opportunity to be; “normal”.
I have no interest in "Making up" accusations about anyone. If we do that, aren't we just as bad if not worse than these criminal, deceptive, child-abusing founders and leaders of the group? I hate Goddamn liars and deniers. I have no respect for any girl or boy who makes up false accusations against anyone. By doing that they debase themselves to the same lows of the criminal leadership and cult members they claim to be attempting to expose.
So far I haven't met a single girl who has simply fabricated accusations against anyone. There's always at least one other collaborating account. In the case of Berg, Zerby, Peter Amsterdam and others, there are so many collaborating accounts of their perversions and crimes against helpless children:
1. Faithy
2. Mene
3. Armendria
4. Davidito
5. Davida
6. Others – I won’t use their names here.
What’s more likely? -- That these characters just woke up one morning, got under the influence of Satan, and conspired to besmirch “God’s Loving Prophet”. Or that this vicious criminal (Berg) who viewed little girls as objects of his own perverted sexual desires was in fact making little girls perform sex acts with/on him, raping them, while Maria recorded events and molested then in Unisom with him, and then ordering their vicious beatings and imprisonments whenever they were deemed by him or Zerby to be “yielding to the devil.”
– Interpretation: in Berg/Zerby’s/Peter Amsterdam/Sam Charles Perfilio’s cult vocabulary:
“Yielding to the forces of Satan” =
1. “Standing up and saying ‘no’ to any further sexual molestation.”
2. “Confronting Berg on any issue of his personal conduct specifically his chronic alcoholism, chromic verbal abuse and random molestations of any cult woman he happened to want.”
3. “Telling the truth about what happened to you.”
4. “Doubting that Berg was ‘God’s Endtime Prophet’.”
5. Displaying symptoms of psychological problems; that very often are the direct result of severe abuse.
6. Asking questions like “Did so-and-so do this to so-and-so at this time in this place.” – Sure way to get yourself in serious trouble, if you don’t believe me, try it, -- see what happens. You’ll either get dismissed or rebuked with their cheap intimidation tactics.
7. Asking what happens to the money.
8. Asking for a public apology from the top leadership acknowledging their personal sexual molestation/rape/assault and false imprisonment against with your sisters, friends and yourself. Not some bullshit like “Bad things happened that break loving Mama Maria’s heart.”
Something more like “I Peter Amsterdam, following the sample of Berg, decided that it was a good idea to have ‘dates’, with Mene, Davida, and other little girls in Berg’s household from this time to this time in this country. I later on lied or deliberately misled everyone into thinking that I had nothing to do with such things. I also hypocritically, viciously, and vitriotically attack and besmirch these victims I committed crimes against and encourage everyone else to discount their suffering and continue to give me their money and their daughters and the futures of their children.” I digress.
I agree it's a serious accusation. My sympathies are always with the victims, not the cultic, vicious, vitriolic, hardened, embittered child abusing lying and denying cult members. I’ve caught them all in so many first-hand lies, that it is now my opinion that anyone enmeshed in the leadership structure of that group has internalized their culture of deceit and denial. The burden of proof should be on them, not the destitute victims.
After knowing all this, if culties want to continue to be involved with this criminal nonsense mongering then they deserve to be lied to. -- 2 Thess 2:10b-11, for whoever reads the Bible, the cultists certainly don’t.
The quote “People get the government they deserve.” is only part of a larger quote attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville, I believe the original quote says something about a land of slave or servants being doomed to the rule of tyrants and they the tail-end kicker is the famous “People get the government they deserve”, which is used extensively. Well, these cultists deserve to be lied to at this point. Any young person still in who doesn’t have the balls to ask their leadership the serious questions about their personal conduct, and then seek out and an find the truth, they deserve to stay in a cult that will exploit them, keep then educationally deprived, etc. …
This whole business of no education at the tertiary level has nothing to do with “doing more for God.” It has everything to do with staying under their control. With an education, any current SGA could do massively more for God than they can currently. Become a doctor, or a lawyer, or an engineer, or a teacher and they go out and really consider the poor and reflect well on God rather than just using this shallow charity front as a means for perpetuating your own cultic lifestyle. Besides you’d give more tithes anyway.
Well the cult has been screaming that Jesus is going to come back any time, so don’t do any of that. What a load of ass-crap. Even from a strictly biblical perspective these dudes are such a bunch of self-important clowns who think they know more than the Bible. Matthew 24:36. I’m not putting these scriptural references in here because I’m trying to promote any one belief system. I’m just trying to demonstrate that whatever it is they’re practicing has little if anything to do with sound Christian theology or even basic biblical tenants. But who am I? I’m not an “Endtime Prophet”.
Point being if they’re truly concerned with winning the world for Jesus there’d be none of their controlling foolishness. Jesus doesn’t need people to lie and bend the truth for Him. He certainly doesn’t need a perv posy of criminal, incestuous pedophiles, rapists and controlling child-beaters to lead an “endtime army”, -- now apparently against their own children.
Those children should be thinking in terms of college, and if they want to be missionaries, do it with some class and have something to give rather than holding your hand out in third world countries and getting congressional funds put into the account of some philandering, pedophile, child-beater (yes, he was one of those “WS Leadership” types who had to prove his loyalty by going into a room and viciously beating a 13-14 year-old Mene because Zerby told him to do so) criminal idiot like Grant Montgomery.
I wonder why they don’t encourage people to go to University, even when some have spelled out that they wanted those educational skills in order to further Christian work? – Pretty simple, when you to school you’re taught to think for yourself, to be critical, to analyze, etc., and not accept anyone’s, even your teacher’s opinions about stuff, but to form your own. Not very compatible with a blind female criminal pedophile’s and her male band of perverts around her, demands for unquestioning loyalty and unbending obedience, while at the same time publicly refusing to answer any legitimate questions about her and Berg’s treatment of the children in their care, most notably Merry Berg, whom she has on more than one occasion flatly refused to answer questions about put to her by her own membership. She won’t answer questions, but expects unquestioning loyalty?!!!! Man the life of a prophetess is great. Wish I could get away with that in the real world, refuse to be accountable to anyone and then expect everyone to be accountable to me, and oh, yes, before I forget, “SEND ME MY TITHE! DAMNITT!”
Well, again, if people are stupid enough to not hold their leadership accountable, they deserved to be lied to, exploited, and further controlled.
Well, those SGAs have no excuse for themselves when they come out at 40 or 50 with nothing. I’m not opening my home to them. Zerby sure as hell isn’t going to take care of them in their old age like she did Berg and make sure they have access to incredible healthcare and treatment as she does and Berg did.
This whole business of respecting any one person too much is totally against the Bible anyway. -- Proverbs 28:21 . Well they’ve eaten more than a few pieces of bread during their decades of fleecing the flock, while molesting, beating and imprisoning the children of the flock, and depriving them of every opportunity for a better life.
Back to work.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From tuneman7
Monday, August 01, 2005, 20:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
1 brother + 1 sister = 2 accounts. OMG, the nameless poster doesn't know how to read/count!!
As for all of the dude's other nonsense, I won't talk for other people, but others know of/have been the victim(s) of his crimes as well.
In time I hope they'll speak up too. It's a difficult thing to do.
Read the paragraph for context, "So far I haven't met a single girl who has simply fabricated accusations against anyone." I don't claim to have met the girl. -- I haven't. OMG, again, the nameless poster doesn't know how to read!!
On the other hand I've met plenty of cult apologists, liars and deniers, who are willing to go so far as to deny their own children's sufferings, and that of their childhood friends/peers/siblings (Annike and Vas come to mind, both have intimate first-hand knowledge of child abuse of a sexual nature, and lie publicly about stuff.).(reply to this comment) |
| | From IMHO
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 06:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Especially with sexual abuse, there may very well be cases without a corroborating (yes, that is the word -- to collaborate means to help) account. In the case of The Family abuse, even if we know of someone who knows, we may have no idea who they are, if they're still in the cult and would call us liars, or if they're out but don't want to speak out. All I am saying is, those victims who don't have access to confirmation are people too.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From
Monday, August 01, 2005, 21:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, I thought it would be understood that when I was talking about Brixtonslum, I would also be referring to her (younger, I assume,) sister as well. Since it was clear from the beginning that she was posting for her. But there's a brother now too, I see.
When I said "collaberation", I meant anyone besides the Brixtonslum clan.
It's funny but not many people here have a clue to who this girl (Brixtonslum) is & yet any "nameless poster" here, is not listened to.
On the other hand, we all know who Ezra is & most have nothing bad to say about him.(reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Monday, August 01, 2005, 23:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
Since you know who Ezra is, you also know full well that the guy was a major leader in the cult for quite awhile.
You also know that the dude was flown out to places like Thailand and the Philippines to participate in/lead YES seminars with other luminaries such as Paul Pelloquin and other such criminals.
You also know that his daughter, Amber, was in Macau around the same time as Merry Berg, and under the care of the same child rapists and child molesters at that location, Micheal and his little bunch, where all those children were there without their biological parents. The same location that Ben Farnsworth was falsely imprisoned at and subsequently committed suicide in Hong Kong, while his father sat in W.S. punching a computer keyboard and reading Maria's tripe about how it was going to "strengthen Family youth.", and Amber's father (Ezra) was off in Japan doing God knows what.
I've never met the guy. Hope never to have to. I don't like keeping company with a man like that, who should be a father and yet pisses away his fatherhood allowing his children to suffer as he has. I don't care if "most" "have nothing bad to say about him" or seem to think that it's cool to derelict your God-given responsibility to protect, love, care and supply for your children's needs in the way this man has.
And, nameless poster, stop embarrassing yourself and showing what little humanity you have by suggesting that a guy, whom you know, YOU KNOW, if you know anything about him, has done the things he has done, or has failed to do the things he should have done.
EVEN IF this victim, who has come forward, is not speaking the truth, and I have strong reason to believe she is. But even if, in the unlikely scenario that this one girl is not speaking truthfully, and yet Mr. Rubdown’s parenting history of what he subjected his children to, exposed them to, failed to protect them from, and abdicated and derelict his God-given responsibility to do because he was so busy being a cultist following people who FOR ABSOLUTE CERTAIN HAVE COMMITTED HORRIFIC CRIMES CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN, as outlined in the findings of the Lord Justice Ward, in the British Court case, that alone gives me reason to really have misgivings about having anything to do with the dude.
He could have kept Amber from Macau. -- He didn't!
He could have turned in Mean Artist to the Japanese Authorities on the spot for what he did. -- He didn't!
He could have tried to pay for his daughters education, or at the very least provide her with a place to stay while she tried to go to school. -- He didn't!
He could have lived with his son when he left and helped support the guy at least morally in some way. -- He didn't!
He could have siced the Japanese police on top leaders whom he knew were child molesters at any time. -- He didn't!
I've got plenty bad to say about him.
You know who I am. Who the world are you?!! I speak for myself alone. You seem to speak for "we all". ....
Who is "we all", oh nameless poster?!!!
If you're not a current cultist, which I strongly suspect, but if you're not, you're certainly very much like them. Zerby doesn't stand up and fight her own battles, she sends nameless expendables, who lie, like Vas, Berwick, and these other clowns, hiding, not showing her face or name. -- Like you, and "we all". ... cowards.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 00:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
No, tuneman7, I don't know who you are. Nice real name btw, it must make people laugh as they look at your passport or ID. But I'm glad you know who you are. I could use my Moving On name too, but like everyone else, it's just a username & would not identify me either.
My "we all" would be me & my family & friends that know James. But I can also speak only for myself like you can.
Nobody "sent me" to write this. I never even met Zerby or Berwick or Vas or whoever you're talking about.
Anyway, yawn.......I think I need to paint my toenails nows. I'm too bored for this "who am I" shait.
Caio
(reply to this comment) |
| | From mia1
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 19:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
sorry but I couldn't keep my mouth shut about this....
I'm sure this james dude is a nice guy, he's probably great as are a lot of leaders in the fam. but that doesn't make them any less resposible for the atrocities that happened to to numerous family children. I don't think the presons character is in question, but the chance that this person may have done something horrible during his stay in the family concidering his position as a leader is totally believable. I feel bad for you as you seem to defend this person a lot, but what about the victims who defends them??? How many of you out there have parents friends and siblings in the family?? How many of you would like to believe that your parents didn't ignore abuse when they saw it??? I for a fact know that my parents witnessed abuse but did nothing, that makes them partakers of this abuse. How many people are sentenced to prison because they where accomplises to anothers crimes?? so what if james is a nice guy, that doesn't change what he did. being a great person doesn't heal the scars of his victims nor does it bring closure.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 22:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks Mia1,
You're dealing with the issue many of us deal with, that is the issue of our parents being complicit in our abuse and the abuse of our siblings and possibly other minors.
I consider my parents very complicit and responsible for the abuse, neglect and exploitation I suffered as a minor. I consider my parents directly responsible for the abuse my sister suffered and the crime committed against her. Many of our parents condemn themselves, either by their direct personal actions, or horrible inactions. Either way, it's a very difficult thing to deal with. It's the most heartbreaking thing I've personally ever had to deal with.
I am with you in your question of "What about the victims, who will stand up for them???"
-- The nameless poster doesn't seem to be interested in doing it.
-- We all know the cultists aren't going to do a thing for the victims.
-- The Government seems to be far too reluctant to hold these American criminals who have committed horrific crimes against American children and children of all nationalities represented in the membership of their international organization and are now living overseas to avoid prosecution and wait out the statutes of limitations on their last set of crimes, etc ... We'll see if that ever changes.
At the very least the victims should know that they have each other. I couldn't be bothered less with some nameless clown's suggestion that his/her opinion of the guy and that of "we all” should somehow have any bearing on the way this victim coming forward should be treated. I can't believe this nameless poster's foolishness.
What is common knowledge is that Eman Artist continued to molest and rape girls until he was finally excommunicated and sent back to the United States after molesting a final victim in Japan. I'm told he's molested others since in the U.S.
The chronology of events is as follows:
1. Ezra has opportunity to drop-kick Eman Artist's ass right out of Japan, or at the very least, have him arrested and tried for his crimes, or at the very, very least have him excommunicated from the cult and sent out of the country. -- If it was me, I'd be mustering up every self-restraint to prevent me from drop-kicking Eman's ass, right out of this world.
-- Ezra does nothing. Nothing is done about Eman Artist. Eman Artist stays in Japan in the cult with lots of access young girls and teenagers (his ideal victim demographic).
2. Eman Artist continues to molest and rape cult girls and teenagers in Japan.
3. Eman Artist victimizes a final cult girl in Japan and is finally excommunicated, and sent back to the U.S. He subsequently receives monies from the cult on a regular basis to do art for them, even after excommunication, thus remaining on the cult's payroll, but that's another story.
Apparently this is a really complicated concept which some people have a very difficult time grasping, so I'll spell it out very clearly:
IF EZRA HAD DONE HIS DUTY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT EMAN WHEN HE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO, AND GET HIM OUT OF THE GROUP AND OUT OF JAPAN -- EMAN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CONTINUE TO RAPE AND MOLEST CULT GIRLS AND TEENAGERS IN JAPAN, INCLUDING HIS FINAL VICTIM.
Well, I'm very proud not to be in whatever group the nameless poster is referring to where "most have nothing bad to say about him". They're probably just ignorant of what went on and how Eman Artist was able to continue to victimize children and young teenage girls of my generation in the group because Ezra did nothing.
I agree with Mia1, not only does failure to act when abuse is right in your face make you complicit, as this fellow is. But, there's even another dimension to this all, and that is that because the leadership didn't do anything about these predators who they trained and fed their perversions and knew were walking around, there were many, many more victims.
Ezra was one of those leaders who did nothing. Ezra is partially responsible for every one of the victims of Eman Artist from the time of his inaction to the time of Eman's final expulsion from the group in Japan.
I say partially because Ezra had pedophile leadership buddies and other top leadership in the area at the time such as Paul Pelloquin (a notorious pedophile, child molester, and child rapist), and other nefarious, child-abusing, rapist-type characters such as John P.I., Gary, etc. … who all had prior knowledge of Eman’s crimes against children, and had committed similar crimes themselves, and they were running the whole show there.
That man, James Rudow, aka Ezra is very culpable and personally responsible for the fact that Eman Artist wasn’t kicked out of the group in Japan years before he was finally expelled. If the leadership there would have gone against him, which they would have (they needed Eman’s art talent), if I were him, I would have grabbed the perv, thrown him the back of a car and dropped him off at the nearest police station, pressed charges and stood by my daughter while she testified. That would have been the end of Eman’s molestations and rapes in Japan. –- It wasn’t! -- Why wasn’t it? Because Ezra DID NOTHING!
(reply to this comment) |
| | From big bad king kong
Sunday, August 07, 2005, 05:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
OK wHat if he did want to kick him out but was told by the higher ups to keep Eman? If you remember anything about Fam leadership hardly anyone had full authority without checking from the higher ups first. Esp in the case of a talented Artist/ who at the time was irreplacable?? I can imagine Berg wanting to hold on to Eman for the works sake. Without knowing more I cannot pass judgement on him.
For you who think that killing one of these alleged abusers will prevent more abuse I say GET A CLUE!!!!!!! If they were to abuse kids nowadays they'd be excomunicated. The fear of that alone should prevent them from ever doing it again. The family is a safe place to have ones kids nowadays, no one who knows anything about The Family can deny that. I am sorry about the bad things that were done in the past, I hope you can find some peace in your hearts without resorting to violence. Condoning violence is not healthy, talking about beating the shit out of someone is not healthy. It's not helping anyone at all. I would hope that we can all find a peaceful and constructive solution to this, if anything you can always press charges and go the legal route. (reply to this comment) |
| | From roxal
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 13:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
READ YOUR OWN BULLSHIT OUT LOUD!
You quote:
“if they were to abuse kids nowadays they'd be excomunicated. The fear of that alone should prevent them from ever doing it again.”
WTF? People in the real world get real punishments for hideous crimes such as abusing an innocent child, those include: FINES, CRIMINAL RECORDS, TIME IN PRISON, LIFE IN PRISON, AND DEATH SENTENCES, and even then, there are still criminals who are not afraid enough to not do it. Simply getting excommunicated from a cult is not something that would under any circumstances be considered enough punishment for such a hideous crime, if it could be called a punishment at all! Getting excommunicated from a sick cult in my opinion is a friken favor!
Every person who has ever committed abuse in TF should not only be excommunicated, they should be reported to the proper authorities and have charges put against them. Then and only then, will TF be able to say that they encourage and support any and all efforts towards promoting safety for the children who live in their homes.
Until TF is willing to make that a rule, and put it down on paper (in the charter), and make it be retroactive, they continue to promote an unsafe environment for any child to grow up in.(reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 12:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
Last question to you.
How do you recommend that I go the "legal route" to get justice for the rape of my sister, Mene, in the Philippines in 1986?
You're stupid enough to listen to your cult leaders. Before they suggest anything, they've paid the tens of thousands of dollars to consult lawyers. They know, as I do that there are tremendous hurdles to going the "legal route", when:
1. You can't find the criminals who perpetuated the crimes because they're off hiding in the jungles somewhere and no one knows where they live so they can avoid arrest and prosecution.
2. The U.S. Government does not have jurisdiction because the crimes were deviously committed outside the reach of the United States Criminal Justice system?
3. The statues of limitations have passed on many of the crimes.
You're wrong, you can't "always press charges and go the legal route," your cult leaders know this. They don't write anything like this without consulting lawyers who are experts in International Law, to keep their criminal asses safe, and pay their exorbitant attorney fees with your tithe money.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 11:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
You murder the soul of a child when you abuse them.
Some children are strong enough to reclaim their souls.
The group does absolutely nothing to help those children do so.
They didn't do anything for my sister. They did nothing for Richard after they abused him for years and made him the poster boy of their criminal perversions. Dumped the guy on his ass when he wanted to leave, just like they did with all of us, without educations, without families to go back to, with less than a months' expenses.
You think that's a wholesome environment for children, where you can live your whole life and then be thrown out like trash when you happen not to be of use to them anymore or have some sort of "problems"?
You think that good parents let their little girl (Davida) be systematically molested by the group's criminal leader, Berg, over the period of years and then give her the option to either go back to grandparents she's never known or leave her in the Ukraine at the mercy of the Russian Mob?
Don't give me any idiotic line about "isolated instances of abuse", that's bullshit and anyone who isn't in denial and thinks straight knows it. I was in W.S. when they dumped Davida's ass in the Ukraine like trash. I read their bogus ass reports where a calculated decision to give Richard a one-way ticket to the Home in Budapest and make zero provision for Davida because she was viewed as a liability.
I heard her mother, Sara Kelley, speak with a "W.S. shepherdess" about how she was "worried that Davida might speak up", because she "didn't like 'having dates' with 'Grandpa'", with my own two ears. I stood there while this conversation occurred and saw the words come out of the mouth of her own mother, -- that she was worried her daughter my speak up about the "icky things", that Berg did to Davida, that "Mama" knew about, condoned, and allowed. -- She was worried that "Davida might speak up". Why the hell wasn't she worried about the irreversible damage that "Grandpa" and "Loving Mama Maria," had done to her oldest daughter, the best friend of my friend Richard?
Those people, Berg, Karen Zerby, Steven Douglas Kelley, and the band of upper leadership are murders of the soul of my sister and my friends, and countless children. Some of us have reclaimed our souls, our beauty and our dignity; others will be buried by us. Children burying their childhood friends and siblings because of what was done to them, it doesn't get any worse than that.
If you don't believe me stop being brain-dead, sit at computer and type up a message to your leadership. Demand that they answer these questions.
1. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Berg had contact of a sexual nature with a young girl or teenage Merry Berg, while Maria was in the same bed participating and recording the event?
2. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Berg had sex with Armendira when she was 13 years old, while Mari was in the same bed participating and recording the event?
3. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Berg had sex with Davida, starting when she was 5 years of age?
4. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Davidito was sexualized by his Nannies at a very early age, who systematically molested him, chronicled his molestation and had this published in such a way that those molestations were replicated throughout the group's membership?
5. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that a wedding ceremony was held at Berg's home around about the time of 1986, where Mene, Armendira, and Peter Amsterdam's daughter, Bethy, were betrothed to a Berg in his upper 60s?
6. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Mene was falsely imprisoned, (tied to beds, locked in rooms), for years after she started criticizing Berg and refusing to continue to be molested by him?
7. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Eman Artist was on a "sharing schedule" while at the "Hilltop" location in the Philippines, with little girls including Davida, Merry and others?
8. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Berg requested and was given sexual access to young teenage girls in the Philippines, including Mene, Davida, Armendria, Bethy (Peter Amsterdam's daughter), and Krisity (daughter of their main finance man)?
9. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Samuel Charles Perfilio, (aka John P.I., Matthew) impregnated a 14-year-old girl in the Philippines?
10. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue) that Richard Douthit, known as Steven Silas or Steven CRO, was having regular “dates”, with the likes of Armendira, Heidi Spencer, Kristi and other little girls when they were under 14 years of age in Greece, Sri Lanka and later the Philippines?
11. Is it the case, (yes or no -- not pages of prophetic foolishness to avoid the issue), that Peter Amsterdam had “dates” with Mene, Davida, Armendria and other little girls at Berg’s home?
Ask those questions. If you get a straight and honest answer, that’s more than they gave me. It’s likely you won’t. They will likely do one of two things:
1. Lie through their teeth to your face.
2. Send you back a lengthy rebuke or prophetic nonsense chiding your for your “doubts”. If you’re a leader you’ll mysteriously find yourself being counseled to “focus on your personal family”, or some other such nonsense, and gradually phase our your membership.
They’ll also try this nonsensical line, “Who are you going to believe? God’s prophet, or ‘backsliders’.” – completely ignoring the issue. I believe people who tell me the truth, which these “endtime prophets,” are not at all in the business of doing.
Survivors of my generation have done the hard heart-wrenching work of looking the truth in the eyes. I did that hard work and refuse to follow or be affiliated with criminals, liars, and people who have the blood of my sister and childhood friends on their hand. You haven’t. You don’t even use a recognizable handle.
Coward.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From tuneman7
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, 17:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
Okay, let's have'm answer the next 10 questions.
There were/are several major hot spots for pedophiles and perverts who like having sex with children and young teenagers, Sri-Lanka, and the Philipines. Exactly the type of locations that Perfilio, Berg and their little pack of molestors, criminal perverts liked to hang out in, where laws were/are lax, life is cheap and justice can be bought.
Co-incidence that Berg decided to set up his Manson-style house of horrors/perversions in those locations and chum around with all his top leadership and Eman Artist-style members of his pedophile / teenage molestation ring? I think not.(reply to this comment) |
| | From thinker711
Monday, August 08, 2005, 15:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
So are you suggesting that if a "higher up" wants you to cover up a crime, then you are justified and should go along with it? It doesn't matter WHY he did it.
Your disbelief puzzles me. This is The Family we’re talking about; you know, the sex cult that advocated sex with minors in the name of God. It is not surprising in the least that this man is being accused of sexually abusing a child, especially since he seems to have been fairly high up in TF. Nearly every home in TF had at least one pedophile. You are acting like we are talking about a member of a legitimate organization.
You really believe that the threat of excommunication is enough to keep pedophiles away from kids in the cult? You should GET A CLUE!!!! In the U.S., the threat of 20+ years incarceration doesn't keep sick individuals from raping kids.
I'm sure that the Family is not as bad as it used to be; however, it is still not a healthy environment for kids. Sex is still rampant, families are torn apart by leadership, young teenage girls are getting knocked-up and abandoned, etc. Definitely not a wholesome environment. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From PopNFresh
Monday, August 08, 2005, 13:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah... freak illness. Is that kind of like measles, long term heart disease, cancer, or pneumonia? Because those "freak illnesses" have symptoms. In normal life, one visits the doctor when they are caughing up blood, faint every week, or smash their head through a winshield in a car accident. These "freak illnesses" usually respond to medical treatment a lot better than prayer vigil, and watching the person suffer telling them that if they had the faith, Jesus would heal them.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Snoop
Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
An FGA on exfaimly.org seems to be deeply concerned with this thread....
http://www.exfamily.org/chatbbs/
Posted by Alarmed on August 01, 2005 at 13:23:03
In Reply to: Re: This sad, sad story is like a microcosm of TF posted by JoJo on July 31, 2005 at 00:34:03:
Have you read comments to this post at MO?
http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=10&ID=3114
A couple of SGs are talking about killing this FG or--in what's seen as the lesser evil--beating the crap out of him. The more reasonable heads are arguing against this type of talk & way of thinking, which is really quite dangerous and should be taken seriously, imo. This isn't children threatening to kill their parents, but it sure is a lot of explosive anger.
The people making the worst threats may not be the ones to watch out for. It's the ones who aren't saying much who worry me most. Rick didn't make overt & obvious threats in any of his posts. I really wonder when we're going to see another SG go into a homicidal melt-down.
(reply to this comment)
| From Nancy
Monday, August 01, 2005, 13:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
OMG! These ex-cult members really have a a flair for the dramatic! Conspiracy theories are like cat-nip for these folks. I mean really! Let us not forget that there would not have been a cult for these folks.
They really should take a chill pill for Christ's sake.
No one is promoting violence here. There are such things as figures of speech.
Now, no one can control the various random comment from the peanut gallery, but by and large no one is promoting violence. Pleauze, try and relax!
This is the same type of nonesense the cult promotes in their us against them mentality and their propaganda of fear and persecution. There will be no more survivors killing random cult members. Do I really need to explain the unique situation that was Ricky? See, he was somewhat of a special case within the cult, being the proclaimed prince to the cult throne. Kinda different than your random survivor on movingon. Most of us could really care less about our abusers. Most of us realize that our own abusers do a mighty fine job of self-destructing all on their own. Most of us wouldn't take the time to pee on our abusers if their hair were on fire, much less actually devote any time to thinking about them.
Please, take the time to devote a moments thought to the matter while trolling the website before running off and posting notice of death threats on other ex-cult boards.
And for fucks sake, when are these ex-cult members gonna get it through their heads that we are not like them WE ARE NOT EX-MEMBERS!!! We are the survivor community. Survivors of abuse, survivors of cults, survivors of really bad hair for more than a decade in some cases. But, in no case are we ex-members. And we certainly aren't SG, SGA, YA, EA, fuckin' A. Enough with the cult terminology. I see how it goes hand in hand with the cultic way of thinking, but enough already!
Now, that's all I've got to say about the War in Vietnam. I'm sure some ex-cultie is going to write on a board that I'm one of the "ones to watch out for" now. Fine, as long as you don't call me an ex-member.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Benz
Saturday, August 06, 2005, 10:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
Nancy,
On the subject of our being referred to by The Family's "cult terms", I could not agree with you more. There has been the reference to us as "Apostates", "Vandari's", "Ex-members", and the host of nonsense acronyms thrown about willy-nilly.
The most offensive point I find, is that "The Family" seems to think they reserve the right to determine our identities. Referring to "us" (the collective "we" who were raised by them) by all sorts of ridiculous names, terms and labels, often the more outrageous the better in an attempt to continue to have some sort of influence on how we perceive ourselves, or merely because they force a reaction in us in rejecting, even acknowledging their name-calling. In short, I believe "The Family's" members derive a sense of power (mostly imagined) from any reaction we have to their name-calling, or any successful attempt to convince "neutral" parties that we are as they say we are. They are the picture of a kid who pulls his sisters hair and is able to convince the parent they did nothing and the sister merely cried for no reason.
I agree it is important to confront TFs' name calling for the nonsense that it is. Previously there have been arguments against the term "apostate" and that it is incorrect to label us who never chose their belief system but were merely forced to accept it as children, as such.
One book of interest to me recently is "The Social Contract" by Jean-Jacques Rousseau, the book of the famed "Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains" quote, considered a classic work of Political Theory. In considering our situation I believe TF is attempting to victimize us in a political fashion. Whilst I don't wish to expound on the religious link to politics I want to point out one main component of what we are faced with. - The issue of slavery.
TF in numerous publications refers to its members as "Slaves for Christ", "Servants", "Soldiers", "Members with no minds of their own", "Subservants to Christ", etc, and the leadership were "Christs" representatives. Therefore in considering someone a "member" (or ex-member), is tantamount to calling, labelling or referring to one as a "slave". Of course this was not the only "label" or "component of fantasy", used by TF in trying to construct our identity's, try Mountain Men, Heavens Girl's/ Boy's, Flirty Fish's, Knights, Warriors, Soldiers etc on for size. - Whatever happened to encouraging us kids to think of ourselves as possible members of society, ie: Doctors, Nurses, Firemen, Policemen, Academics, etc?
As children, constructing our understanding of ourselves, our identities, including fantasies of what we would be or were, were undoubtedly linked to the fanciful ideas fostered upon us to try and break our links with reality.
Back onto the subject of being a slave, the great black writer, Frederick Douglass, said, "The power of a tyrant is granted by the oppressed." He also pointed out that one must have a dream--must have hope--before one can rebel against injustice. He wrote, "Beat and cuff your slave, keep him hungry and spiritless, and he will follow the chain of his master like a dog; work him moderately, surround him with physical comfort, and dreams of freedom intrude."
I suppose what I'm trying to say is we must see that the underlying goal of TF is to control either our reactions, our perceptions of ourselves and "the world", and "the world's" perspective of us, and the way this is done is by taking away our dreams. It is by taking away peoples individual "inner dialogue" (and individual fantasies), and replacing it with their group fantasy, redirecting peoples understanding of their identities to what "TF" says it is, that they win. They also win when we react to defend ourselves to their nonsense, as we then give their terms or name-calling "form" (in our fantasy), when no form actually exists.
The way to combat this must then be simply to point out the irrelevance or incorrect nature of their name-calling and fantasies, as they then loose all power over the mind, much like bare-attention techniques used in meditation.
On the subject again of slavery, Jean-Jacques Rousseau had this to say "To speak of a man giving himself in return for nothing is to speak of what is absurd, unthinkable; such an action would be illegitimate, void, if only because on one who did it could be in his right mind. To say the same of a whole people is to conjure up a nation of lunatics; and right cannot rest on madness
Even if each individual could alienate himself, he cannot alienate his children. For they are born men; they are born free; their liberty belongs to them; no one but they themselves has the right to dispose of it. Before they reach the years of discretion, their father may, in their name, make certain rules for their protection and welfare, but he cannot give away their liberty irrevocably and unconditionally, for such a gift would be contrary to the natural order and an abuse of parental right."….
"To renounce freedom is to renounce one's humanity, one's rights as a man and equally one's duties. There is no possible quid pro quo for one who renounces everything; indeed such renunciation is contrary to man's very nature; for if you take away all freedom of the will, you strip a man's actions of all moral significance."
- The way I see it, we were raised to be "slaves" by our parents, who by virtue of their own decisions tried to foster this identity on us. In doing so they have renounced their humanity, but have no authority or right to enforce this idea on us, who are free by nature, and can only become to be "slaves" of any kind by our own decision.
As we are not slaves, but are part of "free" society, we are now bound to live by society's laws and rules, including the one regarding the unlawfulness of murder. On this point Rousseau says "The death penalty inflicted on criminals may be seen in much the same way; it is in order to avoid becoming the victim of a murderer that one consents to die if one becomes a murderer oneself."
On the other hand those in TF who harbour criminals or who are guilty of crimes are as is also defined by Rousseau "since every wrongdoer attacks society's law he becomes by his deed a rebel and a traitor to the country; by violating its law, he ceases to be a member of it; indeed he makes war against it. And in this case, the preservation of the state is incompatible with his preservation; one or the other must perish; and when the guilty man is put to death, it is less as a citizen than as an enemy. Trial and judgement are the proof and declaration that he has broken the social treaty and is in consequence on longer a member of the state."
- is it then any wonder why TF has often said it is "at war" with "the system". When we consider violent words and dialogue, TF has still beaten anyone on this site hands-down. - They even refer to their own children as fantasy-blood-dripping-monster Vandari's - then wonder who's giving people violent ideas!! - Suggest TF consider the source of such violence and violent fantasies. Violence begets violence. Dysfunctional families breed dysfunctional children!
- Isn’t the question what has caused so many people to collectively hate their upbringing and former “care-takers” so much?(reply to this comment) |
| | From tuneman7
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 00:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
Say it loud Nancy! This classification of children born into this group as "members" or "ex-members" is ridiculous.
The term "member" implies that one elects membership in a group, belief system, club, or whatever. ... Certainly not descriptive of a bunch of kids who grew up largely without their biological parents, beating the streets during the day on singing, and postering teams, canning and whatnot while being deprived education, and physically, sexually, psychologically and otherwise abused to boot.
You say it better than I can. "Ex-Member"?!! What nonsense.(reply to this comment) |
| | From anovagrrl
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 08:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
People raised in the Family who commit suicide are acting on the flip side of homicide. I would not dismiss Rick's violence as a special case. I talked with anyone who would listen about the probability of violence before Rick took out Angela, and I'm willing to talk about the likelihood that it will happen again. Maybe I obsessed long enough about killing my perp to understand just how easy it would be to walk down that road. Maybe I understand how traumatic stress disorder in abuse survivors causes us to go into psychotic states where we loose our grip on rational thought and normal inhibitions. Maybe I’ve heard enough free-floating, cracking rage in the posts of MO's abuse survivors to know that I really, truly wouldn’t want to be an older adult Family member caught the fantasy cross-hairs of victim-avengers quietly feeding on their desperation as surely as we are calmly debate the risk they pose.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Nancy
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 09:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sounds like some folks fancy themselves more relevant than they really are.
Let's not feed the paranoia that freely abounds amongst ex-culties and the cult proper. Rather, let's focus on what's important, exposing the abusers, bringing to light what happened to so many and getting help for those who need it, rather than obsess over middle-aged cult fantasies of grandiosity and persecution.
As ex-cult members sit in their trailers across the country philosophizing about whether they’re the next target, the majority of survivors are building their lives and not thinking twice about some bad breathed, wiry-eyed, behavior disorder chocked "uncle" from twenty years ago.
If you don't see the unique situation that was Ricky, then there is not enough time in the day to catch you up to speed, as we'd have to start at the beginning of all things cultish.
“fantasy cross-hairs of victim-avengers” Plueaze! Resist the urge to allow your imagination to carry you away. It is both silly and a touch detached from reality. It is also allowing yourself to play right into the propaganda of fear that the cult perpetuates. Next, we’ll be hearing cries of Vandari. Vandari-avengers is the next natural step, part superhero, part cult fantasy, equally realistic.
No, sorry to disappoint, but we’re not gun-totting, cape-wearing vigilantes. Most of us dress in a drab suit everyday and go to an office. No spandex below my shirt jacket, either. In fact, my three-year old accompanied to the office this morning and is playing on the floor as I type.
I know probably more than a hundred cult survivors personally. Not a “victim-avenger” among them. No, I’d even venture to say, not one sitting obsessing over some washed up middle-aged ex-cult member, either. Most of them are busy with their lives, their careers, their children, their spouses, etc. I'd even say that the majority are highly successful.
Ricky was deprived his entire life of all forms of formal education. He lacked what so many other survivors have been able to create for themselves, a support network in which to build his life. He and Elixicia had it very, very hard when they were starting out. Besides lacking formal education or vocational job training, they also lacked a lot of the social skills that come with growing up in modern society. They didn't know apartments don't typically come with furniture. These factors combined to make any transition into the world very, very difficult. Combined with the extreme abusive environment in which he grew up, life both in and out of the cult was far from the norm for him. Ricky was a tragic figure. He bore the scars of his mother and Berg long after he left. He died with those scars. There comes a point in which the harm done to the human spirit cannot be undone. Those who grew up in similar, but not ever exactly the same, environment understand these distinctions. It would benefit you to learn about them before spouting the propaganda of violence the cult likes to perpetuate. It is what is dangerous, not the survivors. (reply to this comment) |
| | From anovagrrl
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 17:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Would you have predicted that Rick could have done what he did? Like I said before, I warned anyone who cared to listen that violence was likely to happen severeal months before Rick went off. My concerns about the potential for violence received the same kind of dismissal then that I'm getting from you now. I couldn't have predicted it would be Rick, and although his abuse was horrific, strong odds favor the likelihood that there are Family victims around who a lot more unbalanced and prone to violence than Rick.
If "the majority of survivors are building their lives and not thinking twice about some bad breathed, wiry-eyed, behavior disorder chocked "uncle" from twenty years ago," why do a handful of posters on this website talk about their sadistic fantasies?
I never said the people who post on this website are dangerous. I pointed out that there are abuse victims who grew up in TFI that live on a very dangerous edge. Maybe they come to this website, maybe they don't. I think people who post here should be careful about feeding fantasies of revenge, just as they guard against feeding thoughts of suicide when someone posts something along those lines.
When someone goes off again in a homicidal rage, it probably won't be some jerk-off uncle who takes the hit. Will you remember then that you dismissed me as a paranoid Family propagandist? (reply to this comment) |
| | From Jules
Saturday, August 06, 2005, 00:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
I’ve done a lot of thinking on this topic over the past few months. I take responsibility for this web site and I have taken a long look at the site and asked myself if I have been irresponsible in the way it was set up. While I know intellectually that the accusation by Peter and Claire that talking about abuse is what led to Ricky’s violence is an excuse on their part, still I felt I needed to look at this myself and ask myself if there was any truth to it. I felt that in the aftermath of such a tragedy, how could anyone not at least ask themselves this question?
From what I understand, revenge fantasies are a common and normal occurrence among people who have been through prolonged and repeated trauma. These feelings are not an indication that the person experiencing them is psychotic, abnormal or even wrong to feel this way. “Feelings of rage and murderous revenge fantasies are normal responses to abusive treatment”. (Herman, 1992)
However, I could not find any evidence that there is any correlation between talking about past abuse or even recounting revenge fantasies and acting them out. In fact, the research shows that having a place to recollect what has happened and being able to tell one’s story actually lessens the need for revenge fantasies.
“Reparative intervention fantasies lose their power as the victim creates a complete narrative of what really occurred and accepts the impossibility of reversing the past in the present.” (Lott, 2001 http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p010501a.html)
“During the process of mourning, the survivor must come to terms with the impossibility of getting even. As she vents her rage in safety, her helpless fury gradually changes into a more powerful and satisfying form of anger: righteous indignation. This transformation allows the survivor to free herself from the prison of the revenge fantasy, in which she is alone with the perpetrator. It offers her a way to regain a sense of power without becoming a criminal herself. Giving up the fantasy of revenge does not mean giving up the quest for justice; on the contrary, it begins the process of joining with others to hold the perpetrator accountable for his crimes.” (Herman, 1992)
To expand on what Nancy said about Ricky’s situation being unique, I agree that it was. Over the past few years I have communicated in depth with many hundreds of people born and raised in a variety of different cults. While revenge fantasies are common, actually acting out such fantasies is virtually unheard of.
What is much more common is the death of children at the hands of their parents or other elders, either from medical neglect, severe abuse or outright murder. Here is a list of some reported cases: http://www.factnet.org/CIF/child_abuse.htm?FACTNet#Children's%20deaths%20associated%20with%20Cult%20+%20Sects. While the abuse and trauma inflicted on children in these groups do have a definite effect on those of us who were forced to endure such things, I do not see any evidence that survivors will become homicidal.
It is impossible to know what Ricky felt and thought during that time, and I do not mean my speculation to be casual or insensitive. Perhaps it is futile to try to make sense of the senseless, but this tragedy had a significant impact on me, and I believe many others as well and I have tried to understand what I can for myself.
Piecing together the events leading up to January 8th, it seems that from things Ricky’s friends have said and what he himself said in his suicide video, he felt utter despair and hopelessness and complete disregard for his own life. I suspect that many of us have been in that dark place. I have been there myself very recently. The difference in Ricky’s case was that he felt that it was his responsibility to single-handedly do something about the abusers.
The notion of responsibility is something that, ironically, the Family was very big on when it came to foisting it on their children. I don’t know how many times as a child I heard the lecture from my parents that my sibling’s behaviour was my fault, because I was the eldest. We were given ridiculous amounts of responsibility for other children, financially supporting our parents and major life choices from very young ages. It has been difficult at times to explain my background to my therapists or doctors, but when I tell them I am the eldest of eleven, they immediately understand where many of my issues come from.
Ricky had from birth been thrust into the impossible position of being the model child for the entire group. He had to cope with the insanity of being told he was predestined to be a prophet, one of the end time witnesses of the book of Revelations. The amount of responsibility that was placed on him, through no fault of his own, is something that I don't think anyone can really understand. I do however wonder if this had an influence on him chosing the path he did.
The other thing to remember is that this web site is a dialogue. It is a conversation between people who share a common past. Nothing written here is a manifesto or dogma. Opinions are often fluid and change over time. I personally have changed many of my own views as I interact here and reflect on differing viewpoints. Someone expressing a revenge fantasy is simply writing from what they feel at that particular moment. It does not mean that they obsess over that thought or that this is even who they are in real life. Many of us are very different than our online personas.
I recently received a Masters thesis from a researcher analyzing the dialogue on this web site. Their supervisor had informed me of this project and, having my own opinion about some of the conversations here at times, when they told me I was not exactly overly thrilled to hear that someone was actually analysing this. The thesis is entitled “Finding Support Online: Exploring the Internet Dialogue of Second Generation Ex-Member Children of God/The Family”. The researcher had asked the question “does MovingOn.org function as an online support group”? Anyway, the thesis was way more academic than my poor brain can understand, but they used models from Deborah Salem and discursive psychology (I’m guessing that is the psychology of discussion?) by Jonathan Potter and Margaret Wethertell.
The conclusion of this researcher is as follows: “I was able to answer my … research question by determining that, yes, … MovingOn.org functions as a supportive environment for many of [the] second generation former Family members. Additionally I was able to identify some of the explicit and implicit rhetorical strategies that many of these individuals used to provide support for one individual in need. Indeed I was able to identify the same support-strategies that people use in face-to-face groups.” (Philips, 2005)
As I understand it, whether it was my intention or not, this web site meets the criteria for a virtual support group. As such, comments and rants here should be viewed in that light and given due latitude. The recent trend of Family leaders to take excerpts from the discussions here and portray them as being “proof” of the thoughts and feelings of all of us is not only annoying but is extremely unethical. I suppose such behaviour is indicative of people who do not know what it means to listen to and discuss differing opinions. (reply to this comment) |
| | From just your average survivor
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 13:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
I personally agree that this entire site is made up of homicidal maniacs waiting to happen. I also believe that 100% of the population of Idaho are terrorists.
On a more serious note, there have been many times growing up that I probably would have killed an adult with my "Heaven's Girl" super-powers, had they really existed. My super powers were the one thing I clinged to as the means to an end of some of my trauma. I had incredibly violent thoughts towards certain adults, and rightfully so. I'd be more than happy to share them with the world and have a chuckle or two at how naive I was, but I enjoy saying it in person more.
Quite frankly if I hear of any ex or current culties out there shaking in their boots because they are afraid of retribution from a survivor, I'll be quite pleased. If they are afraid, they should be. They should live their lives in fear just like they made us live ours. Knowing how awful it is to be afraid, I feel it is good punishment for those abusers. Not enough, but good.
I feel very sympathetic to survivors who have no way to seek justice for the hundreds of reasons we know of, like countries with poor laws against child abuse, length of time since the crime, lack of information, etc. I truly hope all the survivors can bring their abusers to justice that does not hurt the survivor or ruin their current lives. Whatever that may be, so be it.
If what I've just said makes anyone think I'm homicidal, or support violence, I don't really care. I know who I am, and what I stand for, and we all know what sick cult I came from. So take what you want from that enjoy.
And as a note to TF's culties and ex-culties: Do you really think spankings and corporal punishment administered to a child is enough to put them over the edge as an adult and make them kill? If that's all you did to us, then why are you so fucking scared?(reply to this comment) |
| | From Nancy
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 21:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Let me, again, point out the obvious.
"Majority" vs. "handful" - not the same
"Ricky" vs. "typical cult survivor" - not the same
What Ricky did vs. "homicidal rage" - again, not the same thing
Feelings vs. action - what was it? ah yes, not the same thing
And let me reiterate as well that hypotheticals do no one any good. How about we stick to what has happened and focus on those harmed, rather than pontificating about what could, would or maybe happen in ones fantasies.
Living on a "dangerous edge"? Living in a cult was a dangerous edge. My life and every single one of my fellow survivors' lives that I have had the privilege to meet these past ten plus years is a thousand times more grounded, normal, balanced and generally better than it ever was in the cult.
Let me inform you of a HUGE MYTH that you seem to have bought into and are peddling here. Ricky didn't get the idea from, support from or even share his thoughts on what he was going to do with anyone here. We didn't provoke him or give him the idea or even know what he planned. Sharing our common stories and the feelings and emotions that our experiences have brought about in our lives didn't lead to what Ricky did. Nothing on this website or any other led to what Ricky did. What Ricky experienced as a child and teenager at the hands of the cult and specifically his mother led to what he did. Nothing else. End of story! Let me remind you that Ricky didn't post on this website for about two years while he mulled over his thoughts and ideas.
This website, fellow survivors and least of all the venting that goes on here that allows so many survivors the one outlet they've ever experienced for their pain does not, did not and has not led to violence. That is a stupid myth perpetuated by fear mongering cultists. The damage that the cult did to Ricky and all of us is done. Nothing can undo it. So, telling people to hush and not talk about their feelings or picking apart their postings and looking for any little comment you can twist in order to perpetuate some theory, which has no basis in reality, helps no one and in fact, detracts from the real purpose of this site and that is to be a forum to "read, write, rant, whatever". I personally know Jules has put herself on the line to make sure the freedom to express ourselves here is protected and not intruded upon by fear mongering cult propaganda. And it has been spelled out that none of the editors here support violence. So why not cut folks a break and let them express themselves as they see fit because even the law makes the distinction between speech and action.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from yellowman
Monday, August 01, 2005 - 09:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Japan, with it's lax child protection laws and indifference to abusive cults, is a haven for Family members.
(reply to this comment)
| from brixton slum
Monday, August 01, 2005 - 08:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
At the moment we are in the beginning stages of collecting information about James Rudow (Ezra), if any one has information about his DOB, Place of birth, legal status in Japan and the TNT home's address, please let me know.
Thank you.
(reply to this comment)
| from Judge Dredd
Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 21:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
Shoot first, ask questions later. If they are innocent their god will protect them.
(reply to this comment)
| from Patriot
Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 19:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Lets do something about this child abuser. I am willing to learn more about these people so we can locate them and end thier ability to abuse people any more. I will be in Iraq until next year but it would be nice to kill real enemies not just the ones our nation asks us to.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From porceleindoll
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 19:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
And exactly how do you propose we go about 'doing something' about James Rudow. You want to march into his house and shoot him down in front of his present family, children and other youth who will be just as tramautised as the victims of abuse were by their abusers?
Justice must be handled in a just manner, there is no justice in hunting down and killing someone, nor is there any help in making statements to that effect. I do not support the method you lay out for seeking justice.
And, in the case of Mr. Rudow, I think we need to find out more about the situation, and see what options are available working within the legal system. Are you willing to put your money into helping seek legal justice? Or your time and efforts. Killing him or any other abuser is the quick and easy way, but the effects are long-term, long-term to the murderer, long-term to the innocent children he has, and would do more damage than good.
Please, don't jump off and make threats like this, they're dangerous and hurtful, and in my opinion, not the direction to take.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From true
Sunday, July 31, 2005, 11:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
i hope this is not true..... but i see a lot of people who are like that. what are past was is who we are now no mater how much we try to hide it or run from it. i hope that all of us exmebers will not have to go so far as to kill others or our selves to be able to deal with our past. a lot have not just ricky others have taken to striping doing drugs just cause the family said not to or just living on the edge all the time. it is hard for any of us to deal with this bullshit that was forced on us from the day we where born. and so far i see no way of really dealing with it. you exfamily people that think you are doing good right now always will have the fear that some day it will all fall apart and since our past is some thing that we can not deal with. its as if we have no foundation to fall back on. it makes me sick that our moms and dads thought it was ok just to let us grow up in that cult and think nothing of what would happen to us when we left or got kicked out in to the real world with nothing and no one to turn to.......please think about this and feel our pain our loss our hate it makes you want to cry......
no words can tell what it feels like........
how can this ever be made right again itcan not it will be a pain in our hearts for the rest of our life and may end our life .....
"the family" will not say they are wrong even when the whole world knows that young people from river phoenix to ricky rodriguez have been killed by the suffering of there past that "the family" made them go through......
so i say that "the family" has so much to answer for. the most top of the list is child abuse and murder, and they will not tell the world or take responsobily for the wrong they have done and add lie after lie to there growing list of evil done for the will of god......how sick.........
true............ (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From lacy
Monday, August 01, 2005, 08:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
MAck, do you have kids? I do, I have three. I can tell you right now that if my kids had just been raped by this man I would not march into his house and kill him, nor would I feel like it, cause I think I would rather choose to be available to comfort my children instead of being hauled off to jail for murder!! Don't you think it would be better to stick around for the sake of your kids? Hello! All you people who are talking about killing and barging into houses and just shooting people, please, get real! Haven't you ever heard of kicking the shit out of someone? I have a husband with four very physically able brothers who I'm sure none of them would mind beating someone up who has in the past molested a child. In fact I asked my husband once if he would hurt someone who raped my sister if he ever came in contact with this person. Mack, you are or at least were a police officer?? I find it odd that you would promote murder (that is not self-defense) openly.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Mack
Monday, August 01, 2005, 20:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh Lacy you got me I just dont know what to say....
wait you know…. although I never mentioned marching into his house and killing him in front of his kids at the dinner table the idea is kind of cool.
I was only stating that I want these people stopped so they cant victimize again and if it means killing them only after the legal system who I do and have worked for fails, then it is an option. Its easy to make a person disappear there is the ocean the earth, fire etc. use your imagination. You know killing evil people is actually fun. Oh I probably shouldn’t say that...oops. I might get promoted. Since a Marine General just said it at an interview recently, the liberal fucking looser got sand in their cl!t$.
But back to the point. If someone raped a family member or a person I loved I would kill them. I know the life of luxury they would get if they went to jail. You know a person gets out of prison on average in 18 months for 1st degree rape if they admit it and seek therapy. A murder gets out after 3 years on good behavior depending on the state if they don’t have a criminal record. And I'm sure a lot of TF members who are rapists don’t have a record, even though they have raped and ruined peoples lives and indirectly drove people to suicide.
But if you have the self discipline to not do anything about it but comfort your child who just got raped and let the perp rape someone else then I hope you can live with your self. Or better yet would you like it if they get convicted (fat chance) do go to jail when they get out and rape again, (and you can bet your life they will) and next time they rape they KILL the EVIDENCE.
You see your a simple minded person who never worked in law enforcement doesn’t know the system and is making comments sounding like your 12. Get real lady! And yes I do have a god daughter I love and if I found out she was raped I’d be on a plane tonight to Florida and after I visited her and kissed her, my next mission would be finding and torturing the perp. Oh by the way perp means the person who perpetrated the crime, police talk sorry.
Ive tried, you can’t save the world….oh yea I’m still trying I guess. I gave up on saving souls but I will help them get a one way ticket to hell on the fast train. (reply to this comment) |
| | From lacy
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 11:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
I am all too aware of the fact that rapists and muderers, get out of prison and back on the streets way too fast, I totally agree with you on that. It's completely insane how easily they go right back to torturing. and killing. By the way, I am all for the death penalty, don't get me wrong, I think they should die! Anybody who actually rapes a child is sickeningly evil and doesn't deserve to live. That wasn't the issue. What I was saying was, what good is it going to do your child if you go and get yourself put away for years because of stupidity?? It would not be self-defense, what he did happened years ago. I am not defending him at all, I just think it's a very ignorant and immature way to think. I guess if you don't have kids or a family to take care of and provide for then you can go around torturing and killing "perps" with not much to loose except your own freedom, but I wouldn't risk my life and freedom and lets be real, you might think you can get away with it and maybe you could but there's no way to know for sure that you won't get caught. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Mack
Saturday, August 06, 2005, 12:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
No one asked you to be the executioner. But someone should do it. I’m glad some women who have 2-5 children were able to get out of the family with their children. I respect them for that. Its very hard to do I can imagine. I would recommend that persons like yourself make arrangements with your peers and get a good attorney to start a law suite against the Family, as well all their other sub-organizations. Sue them for damages incurred, depriving you from a high school education, etc. I know I would personally like to be compensated for all the money I collected from “Lit-nessing” “Postering” and “Tape-nessing” I used to do since I can remember as far back as five years old standing in front of a grocery store entrance. Even if I got 1/2 the money back from when I was essentially a child slave it would be around $30,000.00. And a percentage of that money went to Marie who has since invested it in other businesses and charities where funds are raised and checks are written to high ranking leaders to manage the organization. In court is the only place to end The Family. With thier leaders rotting in a jail.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From
Monday, August 01, 2005, 16:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
Dude, you seem to have a distorted impression of self-defense. Preventing something that might happen does not count. Plenty of battered women have gotten in trouble for killing the bastard if say, he was sleeping. Plus in some places, even if there IS imminent threat of bodily harm, you have to try to get away if you can, and only use proportionate force.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From roughneck
Tuesday, August 02, 2005, 17:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Check out how we whooped Iraqs ass even though they weren't a threat. Did they have the potential to become a threat? Absolutly."
Uhmmm, don't you think you could have come up with a slightly better analogy than that? By your reasoning (and apparently your president's), I could go over to someone's house six blocks down, kick his door in, punch him in the face a couple dozen times and take his stereo just because I imagine that he has the "potential to become a threat".
For the record, I'm not actually a pacifist. I just don't think that the war in Iraq serves the long-term interests of the United States so much as it serves those of Big Oil. On that topic, anyone else beginning to wonder whether the current price of fuel was an intended or an unintended consequnce of Operation Enduring Freedom?
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Nancy
Monday, August 01, 2005, 10:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Alright, alright. That's enough. Everyone is talking in terms of hypotheticals. It doesn't help anyone.
I don't think anyone of us, with children of our own or otherwise, can really tell what it would do to us to see our child hurt or abused. Nor can we foresee what we would do in response.
Suffice to say, I don't know one of us survivors who would sit back idly as our parents did.
Mack is in fact in law enforcement. Yet, I can safely say he did not mean to promote violence. I think he is speaking of feelings, not actions. It is different to say I would feel like killing someone than to say I would kill someone.
At any rate, I think it does a lot more good to focus on the harm that has already been committed than to argue about hypothetical harm.
While we do not promote violence in answer to the violence which was committed against us, we certainly can and should not be afraid to identify and talk about what was done to us and our siblings. Only silence keeps us living in pain.
And I've not seen any good come out of trying to qualify or quatitate or compare the abuse suffered by one survivor to that of another. No one deserved what happened to them. There is not a distinction between children, their temperment or behavior which condones abuse against one child and not another. There is no justification for any of it.
I think also that it would not normally be an issue to speak of feelings of wanting to seek revenge against child abusers, except for Ricky's death and the circumstances surrounding it. I think people are a little cautious, to say the least right now, as no one knew or could have imagined what happened to Ricky. As a result, I think we have to be careful what we right and say and make sure we make the distinction between feelings of wanting to do violence to child abusers and really promoting it.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From roughneck
Monday, August 01, 2005, 21:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
"we do have the best one in the world"
Please don't tell me you actually believe this tripe. The "best" justice system in the world wouldn't have allowed COG/FOL/TFI to carry on the way they have for the last 30-odd years without showing some vestiges of interest in real, actual justice.
If you must wave your flag, that's fine, I realise it's your job as a law enforcement officer and Marine. Just don't expect wholehearted agreement from non-Americans as to how much better y'all are than us, mkay? By the by, how's that higher-incarceration-rate-than-communist-China model working for you guys anyway? Oh right. Lock up the horticulturists, leave the whoring cultists be, that's prioritization! Thanks por nada USDOJ.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from a friend
Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 10:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ezra is a kind, loving man. He has dedicated his life to helping others and preaching the gospel. In the past he has been fairly strict with children, but this is for their own good and they have all learned to love him. *Ezra - all our prayers are with you and your family.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Someone Who Knows
Friday, July 29, 2005 - 13:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, I wasn't going to say anything out of respect for James' children. However, the guy is very bad news. Beat the shit out of children and molested girls as well.
He is a very affible guy on the outside, speaks Japanese fluently and makes freinds with Japanese well but is extremely flawed. One of his daughters personally confided in me about having been raped until she bled by Eman Artist at the HCS, and having reported it to her father, James, who did absolutely nothing about it. She also reported it to her mother, who did absolutely nothing about it as well. It would have been very difficult for me to hold myself back from beating the shit out of the guy who did nothing to stand up for his children, beat them, and the threw them out like trash when they left.
That guy should have been taking care of his daughters rather than letting them be raped. When they left he should have cared for them rather than letting them fend for themselves on the streets of Tokyo with nothing to their name, getting into drugs, stripping, escort work and what have you. What a pathetic excuse for a father.
His children all suffered a LOT and are pretty messed up, they had the shit beat out of them as children routinely.
(reply to this comment)
| From porceleindoll
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 18:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't agree that all his children suffered a lot and are pretty messed up, nor that they routinely had the shit beat out of them as children. I lived with them for many years at the HCS and elsewhere, and I don't recall any of his kids with the exception of Amber being 'in trouble'. Amber of course was shipped to Macau, and most likely received harsh disciplinary action there, but his other kids were not bad enough to be beaten on a routine basis. Perhaps we should hear from his own children who have left the group before making statements on their upbringing, they may agree.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Mack
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 23:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
Listen to your self! You make me sick!
"HIS KIDS WERE NOT BAD ENOUGH TO BE BEATEN ON A ROUTINE BASIS"
Kids are never bad enough to be beaten, or are you making an assumption that there certain things a child can do to deserve a "BEATING" you can go to hell.
What the F@*& do you need video? You are really a piece of work.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 20:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
At the HCS, weren't kids pretty much in age groups? At the Combos I lived in, it was not the parents who had primary contact with the kids, so maybe at that time he didn't corporally punish his kids as much. I know that before my siblings and I went to a Combo, there was a helluva lot of intense spanking going on through my parent's application of the cult disciplinary regime. At the Combo, they were kind of segmented into their areas of responsibility, and other people were our "shepherds," so demerits, punishments etc. came from these other people.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From porceleindoll
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 18:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah, I don't agree either. Out of his 5 kids with Ginny, as far as I know, 3 have left, and one daughter has done very well academically, I don't know about the other daughter. I'd think though that if they were involved in that type of life then it would be getting around a lot more. I believe that at least one is in the States, actually I'm sure of it, going to school. The other, Chris, is not a stripper, druggie nor whore.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Ezra is my friend
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 09:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
Chris,
You, of all people, should be sticking up for your dad. He has done so much for you; has alway given you love, support, training, attention and everything you ever needed while you lived with him. He must be so disapointed in your lack of gratitude.
Ezra is a good man. For over 30 years he's served Jesus and has been a faithful disciple in The Family International. He may have made some mistakes along the way, but everyone does. You guys shouldn't forget all the good he has done, and is still doing.
Anyway, I doubt he is all that worried about some bitter exmember saying stuff about him. The Family has always been persecuted, but we've always come out on top. There is nothing you can do to stop our way of life and our message. You guys should stop playing the victim and just forgive and forget...move on.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From shikaka
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 13:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
First of all, whoever you are, fuck you.
Congrats for extracting a rebuttal out of me. Excuse me, asshole, for trying to infuse a little humor into what is a deeply disturbing topic to me.
I am horrified at the accusations, and my personal opinion is that my father would never abuse a little girl. With that said, I also understand that my feelings are no less valid or intense than the person posting this vitriol. Obviously I will not be able to convince him that such a thing didnt take place, so EXCUSE ME for not trying.
I believe that my father is a good man. His concern for my well-being and that of my sisters is evident. He has offered me financial support in the past. He is a caring, loving, kind man who believes wholeheartedly that he is serving God.
I believe that a great deal of poor decisions were made by all in the cult, and that all must bear responsibility for their own actions. I have no way of proving or disproving the allegations, SO I WONT EVEN TRY.
Im sick at heart. Go fuck yourself. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From tuneman7
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 11:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hmmm. ...
Since you imply that you're ostensibly some type of a Christian you should read the Bible.
Matthew 18:6
It doesn't read, "If you were the friend of so-and-so, and only happened to molest or abuse casually, or mistakenly, and you're a 'missionary', then things are cool."
It doesn't read, "If you only molested or offended 1 but repented and didn't go on to molest 2-4, then things are cool."
It doesn't even read "If you offended 1 but your 'heart was in the right place' and you were just temporarily off track, then things are cool."
It basically says, if you offend even 1 little one, it's best for you to be dumped of a bridge or cliff with a millstone around your neck as an anti-buoyancy device. In other words Jesus' personal opinion on this stuff is that he was interested in personally dumping anyone guilty of any offense against a single child off the nearest cliff or bridge with a boulder around his or her neck. That was his take on the deal. Quite different than yours.
Whatever it is you think you're practicing has little or nothing to do with Christianity. If it did, your attitudes would be more in line with Jesus' on all of this stuff.
Also, you're right the Family is persecuted, not for the sake or righteousness either, and not because of "religious persecution", they're persecuted and despised because of the crimes they've committed against children.
You're not a very bright character whoever you are;
1. You don't read the Bible, or, if you do, you don't understand or apply it at all.
2. You don't seem to understand the difference between "persecution for the sake of righteousness", and anger and persecution for crimes and horrific offenses against children. Let me help you understand:
A. RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION SCENARIO:
Joe missionary is caught in Red China with Bibles (no cult publications, porn videos etc, also he's not pimping out his wife or female members in any sort of an FFing/prostetution fashion, for money, he's also not molesting his children or other people's children).
Joe is imprisoned for distributing the Bibles, in an Atheistic country.
That's religious persecution.
*********************************
B. RETRIBUTION BECAUSE OF CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR SCENARIO:
Joe is a follower of Berg/Zerby. Joe has a copy of the Davidito book and many other publications such as "Sex With Grandmother", "The Last State", "Merrytime", "The Little Girl Dream", "The Devil Hates Sex", "Sex Rules" etc. ... He also has lots of videos with women and little girls dancing around naked for Berg. He also sends his wife out to have sex with random men for money.
On one of the nights his wife is out he decides that it's a good idea to molest his daughter or one of his daughter's little girl friends in the "home". He does so, -- repeatedly.
A visiting servant or CRO like Paul Pelloquin, shows up and encourages him in his criminal behavior and molests little girls while visiting. He also helps Joe set up a "sharing schedule" and pair little girls up for scheduled rape and molestation by adult men. Joe feels like a good little child-raping cultist because after all, now he's doing it the way it's done "In the house of the King".
Joe gets arrested and thrown in jail for raping little girls and being in possession of criminal perverted tripe.
You tell me, is that religious persecution? It's not any sort of persecution.
*********************************
Have a great lunch date, Nancy.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From ..........
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 10:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Love (in the form of beatings?), support (if and only if, you chose to do what he told you to do?), training (otherwise known as 'brainwashing'?), attention (a star if you quoted the scriptures correctly?) and everything you ever needed (except a normal childhood?) while you lived with him."
And what about now? What about for the rest of her life? Does your duty to your children end when they leave your house or when they are stable and can function on their own?
From what I’ve read above, this man doesn’t need anyone to stick up for him. If he’s such a great person like you say he is, then why doesn’t he come in here and post his direct apologies or denials to everything said above? If his own daughter doesn’t feel the need to stick up for him, then I think that says a whole lot about him.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
“Anyway, I doubt he is all that worried about some bitter exmember saying stuff about him.”
If he’s not worried and feels no guilt, it’s because TF has brainwashed him to the point of no return. They’ve successfully taken away his emotional and moral obligation to his family.
“The Family has always been persecuted, but we've always come out on top. There is nothing you can do to stop our way of life and our message. You guys should stop playing the victim and just forgive and forget...move on.”
Always come out on top? Now that is pretty much the most comical statement I’ve heard come out of you people. TF doesn’t and has never come out on top of anything. They have only ever lied about, covered up, suppressed, distorted, and manipulated information in every case in order to divert attention and blame onto the general population of TF. The leaders have never taken blame for any of their actions (and no they aren’t mistakes.), they’ve always shifted the blame to “several individuals who misinterpreted things”. TF leaders and shepards are cowards.
I’ll bet if you would take ‘Ezra’s friends’ post and compare it to any post from current family members, you’d get almost identical wording. When will the members of this sick cult learn to think for themselves?
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From Someone Who Knows
Sunday, July 31, 2005, 14:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Porceleindoll,
You're thankfully you're right, none of them are currently in that lifestyle. It seems that the two sisters under Amber are doing okay at this point. They're recovering, that's great.
This doesn't change the fact that any Dad who lets his daugher(s);
1. Be sent to victor camps (probably after being victimized in the sexual sense before going [To this day, I know of not a single female victor who was in Maccau who was not the victim of sexual abuse prior to being falsely imprisoned, beaten and probably molested too by the whackos there in Macau).
2. Be raped by Eman artist and do nothing about it when the crying, bleeding traumatized little girl comes to the only one she knows how to come to, her own parents for recourse. In fact going so far as to tell the girl that she was lying and threatening to punish her as a result of this.
3. Leave a family home and have no other job options in the interm for survival other than stripping and escort work which did happen with one of these girls. Thankfully it's not happening anymore, she had friends and was strong enough to move into another life which is wonderful. Does not detract from the type of abusive father the guy was and the fact that he was massively neglectful of his daughter. He probably doesn't even know this about his own daughter because she was probably too ashamed to tell him.
I don't look down on her or anyone who does drugs in those cirucmstances -- they're just trying to control pain. The pain of knowing your father is an abuser, the pain of knowing he didn't give a shit about the fact you were being raped by the leadership's pet artist who was a known child rapist by this time and who had developed those appetites while in Music with Meaning, at Berg's home and other locations where he, like much of the family's "talent" at that time where being offered up little girls by these monsters.
Well Eman goes to the HCS doesn't stop, (Berg didn't, why should he), rapes girls, and this two faced criminal (James Rudow), doesn't even have the guts to stand up to the leadership and demand that something be done about the fact that Eman had just raped his daughter at age 8-9 years old the damn perv!
4. Amber was not the only victor in that family, other girls were too and had the shit beat out of them in Japan and elsewhere.
Someone commented that his kids were "too good" for any of this type of punishment. Perhaps perhaps not. I don't know, I didn't live with them during my childhood.
What I do know is all of them fear him and he's despised by most of them for what he did or failed to do. -- As he should be!
Also one of those girls has had to be rushed to the hospital for eating disorders and anorexia on more than one occasion. Not a healthy bunch of people.
The guy, James that is, also majorly abuses alcohol when no one is looking and he can get away with it.
Not a good man.(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Friday, September 09, 2005, 23:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't think his daughter's appreciate you posting their past for all to read... poor things! I really think you should get their permission before you go saying what you "think" they feel about their father, or go into details about their lives. Don't you think it's hard enough that their father is being called a child molester, without their past being brought up in great detail for all to read. I can't imagine what you are putting them through! They are trying to move on with their lives, please let them! (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from Phoenixkidd
Friday, July 29, 2005 - 09:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
I can't imagine Ezra doing anything s^^^^^^ with children. I know he beat the crap out of some. But in general he seemed like a nice guy. A little heavy handed and definetely one of those personalities. Him and my Dad are best friends, live together and quite crazy if not a little mentally distrubed, I think. He always treated me with respect whenever I visited them. Feel free to email me your rebuttal which I know you will have Brixton, I would like to know who you were.
(reply to this comment)
| From reality check
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 11:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
How could you say “beat the crap out of some” and “generally nice guy” in the same sentence and not be completely insane?
A person who beats the crap out of anyone is not a ‘nice guy’ in any aspect, much less someone who beats the crap out of defenseless kids!
Read what you post before you post it, and spare yourself the embarrassment of looking like a total lunatic.(reply to this comment) |
| | From brixton slum
Friday, July 29, 2005, 10:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
Phoenixkidd,
Obviously the experiences you've had with J.Rudow are very different to what my sister and I went through when we lived with him. I don't doubt that there are, perhaps many, people out there who would, like you, describe J.Rudow as a 'nice guy'. And I believe you are sincere when say these things (about him). Nevertheless that does not diminish the validity of our account of what happened to us.
We don't know why he did the things that he did. Only J.Rudow can answer that. But what we do know is, what we went through. We lived it and, to some extent, are still living it, especially my sister.
I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it all go away. Unfortunately that's not possible. What he did to us has and will stay with us for the rest of our lives. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From true
Saturday, July 30, 2005, 23:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
i also lived with him at the HCS and other places in japan. the most evil that the family has done has been in the sex that was alowed with childen that point only is enough to send them all to hell...........they should pay no mater how much "good" they say they do the family can no longer exist......(reply to this comment) |
| | from question
Friday, July 29, 2005 - 05:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
Is he a conjoined triplet?
If not, then I suggest you obtain the permission of the other two fellers in the photo before you post.
(reply to this comment)
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