Moving On - Children of the Children of God

In Maria letter #666 (I am not kidding) rated GP, she explains to the Family her side regarding the images seen in the flash animation file posted in the article: "Plagiarized Art?"

This GN was forwarded to me anonymously, and I am posting it here for anyone who is interested in reading what the Family leadership has had to say about it.

Post-it GN #12
Which Comes First: The Revelation or the Artwork?
By Maria Maria #666 GP 3474 12/03

Dear Family,

1. I love you! Peter and I are praying for you. We know that our life for the Lord isn't easy--and it seems as we get closer and closer to the End, a lot of things are becoming increasingly difficult. The battles are stronger, the attacks of the Enemy are more fierce, his lies are more believable, and your faith is tested repeatedly. But the Lord has shown us that ours is also a very great honor, that we can be living for Him in these last days, bearers of His full truth, destined to see many prophecies fulfilled as the events foretold thousands of years ago come to pass! He reminds us often that because of the great honor we have, which "many prophets and righteous men desired," we also must pass many tests and make sacrifices in order to be worthy of that honor. So don't be discouraged by the difficulties! They're part of our life for the Lord, and they can make you even stronger, wiser, more mature, and more useful.

2. Recently several of you sent us an animated slideshow (put together by one of our detractors) that was posted on the Web and was being circulated to Family members via e-mail. This presentation showed Family artwork--primarily Tamar's art, with one or two exceptions--alongside existing System art that she copied. In some cases a whole GN picture was a copy of existing art she had found on the Internet, although she had made changes to the background or facial expression or details of the picture. In other cases, only elements of the picture were copied and pieced together, such as the sword, the demons, an arm or a hand, or a body pose, etc.

3. This presentation was sprinkled with quotes from the Letters that described what was illustrated in the GN picture, as well as with quotes from Tamar's interview in the Zine , where she is giving the Lord all the glory for her art and explaining how much He likes to be involved in every picture that she draws and all the details.

4. The insinuation or the feeling you're left with when you watch this slideshow, with picture after picture that has been copied from System art either in whole or in part, alongside quotes from the visions or prophecies received, is that prophecy is fake, a product of someone's imagination. The underlying message is‚ "Because the pictures are copies of another artist's work, how can the prophecies be true?" Several of you have written us asking for prayer, because your faith was shaken when you saw this presentation, wondering if the spirit helpers and demons the Lord has revealed to us, as well as other spiritual concepts‚ were all just figments of someone's imagination, or worse yet, copied from some piece of art that in some cases isn't very godly or inspiring.

5. As convincing or clever as this slideshow may be, it's nothing more than an outright attack on our faith. It insinuates that:
1) The prophecies and visions in the GNs are made up, based on pictures someone saw previous to the revelation.
2) The Family can't come up with anything original. We're second-class cheaters.
3) Tamar is fooling everyone when she gives all the glory to the Lord in her interview in the Zine.
And I'm sure it left you with other disappointed or discouraged feelings too.

Copying art is not new

6. There are several points that I want to bring out that I think will help give you a better understanding of the way things really are, and that might also help you understand some things about art and publications a little more.

7. First of all, yes, it's true that Tamar copies other art in many of her drawings. That might be disillusioning for you, but she is what's known as a copy artist. That's what her talent is--she copies or traces parts of other pieces of art and adapts them to suit the style and concept that she's illustrating, using her gifts to combine it all and make it a good representation of the message the Lord has given.

8. The concept of copying art--whether in ideas, style, presentation, or finer details--is not new. It's probably not something many of you think about, because you don't live with artists and see all that goes into their work. If we had more time, I would ask all our artists in WS to give you a glimpse into how they do their work, as each artist has strong and weak points. Some artists are very good with a certain style, but find another style practically impossible.

9. Most artists, even if they're not copy artists‚ use reference material of some sort or another–-whether another artist's work, or photographs, or models, or whatever. In fact, there's a huge market for such materials on the Internet. If you do a web search on the term "artist reference," you'll find millions of hits, and many thousands of them are people selling photos, slides‚ reference books and guides and resources for artists. Some artists use more reference than others. Others need help and send their work to another artist to perfect whatever they have a hard time with--like hands, or hair, or body proportions, or animals, or intricate backgrounds, or whatever the case may be.

10. You might not realize this, but no artist is perfect or strong in every area of art, and many artists rely on help from others --either for the sake of speed or perfection. Even Michelangelo, for example, had whole schools of students that helped him with his great frescoes--not because he wasn't capable of painting them himself, but because with their help he was able to do many more.

11. For that matter, copying isn't particular to the art world. Musicians copy other songs and styles--even many of the great hymns of the past were copied from popular songs of their era. Writers copy ideas and writing styles from other writers. Movie makers copy concepts and characters and scenes from other movies. Architects copy the designs of their buildings from other architects. Web designers create replicas of other sites they've seen and like. Even industrial designers copy extensively from their peers, which is why it's often so hard to tell one model of car from another at first glance these days!

12. In order to do her work, Tamar uses reference --she looks for pictures that depict the body pose or the idea that she needs‚ and then she uses parts of those pictures, modifying the facial expressions, sometimes the outfits, sometimes the backgrounds, to match the description the Lord has given. It saves her a tremendous amount of time, and it illustrates the concept that the Lord has given and gets the job done.

The prophecies come first‚ and the art follows

13. But the fact that Tamar copies art is not really the problem. The main message that those who created the art slideshow are hoping to get across is that the prophecies and visions that are published in the GNs are false or a figment of someone's imagination.

14. There's a problem with that reasoning, however, because Tamar doesn't receive very many of the visions and prophecies that are depicted in her art. In fact, in that slideshow there were 38 pieces of her art displayed (out of the 136 GN covers and illustrations she's drawn in recent years), and in only three cases did she receive the vision that she wound up illustrating. All the rest were received by other channels--channels who are not artists, and who have never seen the reference that Tamar uses.

15. In every case, after I put the GNs together, Tamar searched for reference that was similar to what the channel had described. The prophecy or vision was given first, gone over by me, put in a GN, and then Tamar was given the job of illustrating the GN. So in all cases the prophecy came first, and afterwards she searched for reference that depicted what the channel had received.

16. In the case of the pictures of Pan and Bacchus, as you'll see later in Tamar's explanation, she had seen reference pictures in the past that the Lord brought back to her mind as He was showing her those demons, and He brought those pictures to life. The Lord explains how and why He chose to do that, and I think you'll find it interesting. But even then, she first received the prophecy, and then later when she was given the job of illustrating those demons, she looked up reference that matched what the Lord had given when she received the prophecy. However, as I said‚ in most cases she wasn't the one who received the original prophecy.

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17. (Jesus:) This is a storm that the Enemy has kicked up with the goal of discrediting My Word, but he will not win. It will test and try the faith of some, but that is all for the best. My children must be tested and tried, for great honor is to be theirs, and I must know who is worthy of it.

18. The Enemy is not only trying to discredit My Word, but he wants to preserve his evil forces. He's angry that his demons are being exposed and that a "face" is being put on them for My children to recognize and rebuke and actively fight. He's angry that you're learning so many concepts of the spirit that are going to spell such defeat for his kingdom of darkness. He's angry at My Words and he's trying to discredit My Words. But that's useless, because My Words are true, they work, and they have been proven over and over and over again, and will continue to be proven. So the lies will be exposed, and good will come of this. (End of message from Jesus.)

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Tamar's explanation and apology

19. (Mama:) I'll let Tamar explain a little bit here in her own words.

20. (Tamar:) Dear ones, I'm so sorry if my copying other artists' work has in any way caused you to doubt the veracity of the Lord's Words or visions. I can see how the presentation of this slideshow and the questions about my art could cause you to wonder‚ be left with questions, or even serious doubts. So I pray that this explanation will clear up your questions.

21. First of all‚ let me say that I'm what's known as a copy artist, which means to a large degree I lean on reference--in the form of photos and pictures from various sources--in composing and putting together my pictures. This is the talent the Lord's given me and the way I've drawn for many years now.

22. Of course, I feel that it would be wonderful if the Lord had given me the gift of literally being able to get "spirit drawings from Heaven," but with me that's not the case. To my way of thinking, the ideal would be to be able to draw completely freehand without the aid of photos, models or reference, but I've learned to accept and thank the Lord for the talent He has given me. It's a "lesser" talent, I know--and I've struggled with that and taken it to the Lord many times myself--but it's one which the Lord has always sweetly encouraged me that He can continue to use for His glory if I continue to yield to Him.

23. From my experience‚ almost every artist has reference material of some kind to help them in their work. It's particularly helpful in that it saves a great deal of time, which would otherwise be laboriously spent trying to draw something that you can't picture in your mind alone. The fact that other GN artists before me used reference and copied pictures from time to time, and the Lord was able to use those pictures for His glory, liberated me and encouraged me.

24. Prior to joining the Family, while attending art school‚ I learned how much copying was just part of life within the art and graphics world. Something was always a copy of something else. Copying was the norm--whether copying an idea, or part of a picture, or even a large part of a picture with just a small adaptation made. It was the accepted norm for many artists in the world. Prior to this I think I had somewhat of an idealistic view of art-–that it all had to be totally original. Even the realization that top artists and designers use photos, models and other pictures was new to me. I was shocked that people actually did that. Now that broke my bottle, but once I realized this and took my unrealistic ideals regarding art off the pedestal I'd placed them on, that's when I felt encouraged that even my talent--however small--could be used and developed.

25. Anyway, back to the slideshow. Certain GN covers were presented, as well as the System art reference I copied for these covers. This is true; I copied those pictures. However, I was not the channel that received most of those visions or descriptions, with the exception of three. Because I was the channel who received the vision of Pan and Bacchus, I can see how this could cause doubt that the vision and pictures the Lord gave were real, particularly when portions of the vision are so close to what's depicted in the System reference material I used. That understandably would raise questions.

26. The Lord had already revealed to Mama through another message months earlier that Pan and Bacchus were fighting our youth. So the original revelation about them and the way they fight us had already been received. When the Lord showed Mama that it was time to get that revelation about those two demons out to the Family, she asked me to ask the Lord for a picture of them so that we could visualize them, as that often helps in being able to really fight them.

27. However, I want you, my dear Family, to know that when I sat down to pray and receive the Lord's descriptions of those demons, I was very desperate. I don't look forward to asking the Lord what demons look like; it's difficult for me, not to mention being a real step of faith to ask the Lord such things. Just as I always do when hearing from Him, I asked the Lord to clear my mind of anything but the pictures, descriptions and words that He wanted to give me. And those are the pictures I saw when I prayed--those same System reference pictures I had long ago stored away in my reference directory. I had last seen those pictures at least a year or a year and a half before receiving the vision of these demons. I did not look at those pictures prior to receiving this prophecy assignment or praying, nor did I refer to them throughout the vision and prophecy I received.

28. Now why the Lord chose to bring those pictures to my mind as a description of Pan and Bacchus, I don't know. I just described what I was seeing, and those pictures literally became reality--not just a picture on paper anymore. At the time I simply trusted the Lord that He knew what He was doing in showing me a description of these demons that was very similar to those particular reference pictures that I had seen before. In the past, the Lord has told us that demons can take on many different forms. When Mama had someone ask the Lord about this, He explained that He chose to make things easy for me by recalling and using these particular pictures as a good starting point for the depiction and description of these demons--something which would be easy and quick for me to translate from concept to paper.

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The Lord uses what we know to explain or illustrate what we don't know
29. (Mama:) I was curious as to why the Lord would bring those pictures to her mind. Of course‚ when the Lord speaks to us‚ He will often bring things to mind that we know--verses from the Bible, quotes from Dad, experiences that we can relate to--and He uses those as part of His message. He even sometimes uses things that we might not consider so spiritual, such as advertising slogans, stories or songs from the world, and even pictures from System sources.

30. Remember Dad's vision of the goddesses? (ML #224, Vol.2). He was looking at a photo from Playboy magazine, and the picture seemed to come to life and give a message from the goddess of America, which inspired Dad to give a message on reaching the American young people. So it's not that unusual for the Lord to draw from our experiences or surroundings to give us new insights and understanding. But I was curious and thought you might be too, so we checked, and here's what He said:

31. (Jesus:) I brought those pictures to Tamar's mind because they were a fairly accurate description of these demons --although, as I told you, they take on many forms. Most demons can take on many forms, but because you're not yet in the spirit world, it's easier for you to picture them, grasp their reality and really rebuke them when I describe them to you or give you a glimpse of how they look, even if it's not how they look all the time. That was the case with these two demons.

32. I searched through Tamar's mind and experiences for something that she could relate to, and then used that as a starting point, modifying the details that needed changing in order to be an accurate description of these two demons. If she had not had any experience or reference point that would have been a good starting point, I would have started from scratch to describe them. But usually when I need to give you a message or describe something to you‚ I will try to find something that you can relate it to‚ because that gives you faith to get started and often makes it easier for you to receive the message. (End of message from Jesus.)

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33. (Tamar:) I hope this helps explain these two particular pictures of Pan and Bacchus. I especially pray that it helps to resolve any doubts you might have regarding either the Lord's Words or the visions due to my having received the vision and then copied the very similar art reference. I know the Lord's Words are true because I've seen their fruit in my own life and because I've heard of their fruit in the lives of others. I know I'm human and I make mistakes, but when I ask bread of the Father in prophecy, I believe He's not going to give me a stone. I'm very sorry if my having used this System reference material in any way distracted or cast a shadow on the Lord's Words. If this has happened, I take the blame--something which is my responsibility alone to bear.

34. (Mama:) Please let this strengthen your faith, dear Family, not weaken it. The Lord's Words are true and I have confidence in Tamar's ability to hear from Him. It's up to you how you receive it, of course, and I know that's a test sometimes--one that the Lord allows, because He hopes it will strengthen you.

35. You know, Tamar didn't have to bring up the fact that she received the messages describing Pan and Bacchus and later drew the pictures of them. We didn't mention that in the original GN about them and we didn't have to mention it here. In fact, we knew some of you would have questions when we brought it up. But we wanted to be honest and open with you and explain how this happened, and when we checked with the Lord on this, He confirmed that it was a good idea and gave us the following wise counsel:

36. (Jesus:) This is an example of being honest even if it might not "bolster your case." You are truthfully explaining how things happen sometimes, and it can strengthen My brides' faith if they choose to see the spiritual realities at work. For some, it will cause questions, but even those can strengthen their faith if they'll bring them to Me. While everything would seem more uncomplicated without this example, sometimes I allow these things purposely‚ knowing the end result, because it will be a test for My children. I must allow tests. That's how you grow and how your faith is strengthened.

37. After that, it's up to people whether they want to believe My Words or the doubts of the Enemy, which he will be screaming in their ears, because he's about to be defeated. It's their call. That's what free choice, life on Earth‚ and tests of your faith are all about. You must decide. And it's in these kinds of situations that you really benefit if you've been obedient to remain in the Word and nurture your faith, because then these things will just roll like water off a duck's back. Whereas if your faith is weaker, it can be a much more painful struggle. (End of message from Jesus.)

(Mama:) If you're tempted to believe the apostates ' words and advice over God's Word and the things Peter and I have said over the last few years in many different GNs … then you'd be wise to ask the Lord why. If you are having a hard time believing His Word or certain specifics in His Word, then go to Him about it personally. If you're really serious about living for Jesus, then you've got to live His Word, because that's the basis of our faith. And how can you live His Word if you don't believe it? It's very important, folks! (ML #3458:17, GN 1043).

38. (Tamar:) It may help you to know that even though Mama and my teamworkers realize I am a copy artist and that I use reference for my work, they don't see what reference I use for the pictures, nor how much reference I use or copy. They also did not know that I was copying so extensively. My co-workers are not artists and are not familiar with the world of art reference. I work alone in my room, my reference is on my computer, and I've never been in the habit of displaying my reference or showing those I work with what reference material I use for my pictures. However, I do circulate the art ideas and finalized GN picture to people in Mama's Home and other units for their suggestions and input. Then Mama final approves the picture.

39. Just as I explained in my Zine interview‚ on every picture I ask the Lord for the idea, then I check in with Him and ask Him on each further step--including what reference I can use and what I need to change or adapt on the reference so that it carries His Spirit. Almost always--even when I'm copying a picture of a person's entire body or form--the Lord leads me to change the face or certain features, so that the picture has the right spirit. That's where the spirit is most often visibly captured--in the face, the eyes, and the countenance. So even though I use reference, I still faithfully take each piece of reference material--no matter how small-–before the Lord, and ask Him if it's the right reference to use.

40. However, I know that there have been times where I have leaned on reference too much and more or less completely copied an existing System picture. This was my mistake, not Mama's or Peter's or anyone else's. As I said‚ Mama and those I work with aren't aware of what reference I use‚ or how much. Of course they trust that I'll be prayerful and discern what reference to use and what not to use. But in reality‚ the buck stops with me when it comes to what reference I use or how much of it.

41. So my prayer is that despite any mistake or blame factor here--of my going overboard in the use of reference and copying pictures--you won't allow this to steal your faith in the truth of His Words or wonder why Mama allowed me to copy System reference. As I mentioned, Mama isn't involved in the reference aspect, but certainly when it comes time for her to approve a picture, she is very attuned and gifted in discerning any discrepancies or ways in which a picture could send the wrong signal, or doesn't accurately portray the Lord's Words, or doesn't convey enough of the Lord's Spirit.

42. In retrospect, I know I crossed the line in copying too much. I've always been insecure about my gift and felt I didn't do a very good job all on my own, so I've sometimes defaulted to using reference automatically--whereas I know the Lord wants me to have more faith and to expand and grow and reach out for His power to work in me more fully. I'm very sorry if my leaning on this crutch has caused your faith to be hurt. I also should have given credit where credit was due when a picture was a complete copy. I do pray this explanation helps and answers any questions you may have.

43. Now you see how much I need your prayers. It's a priceless privilege to illustrate the Lord's Words, and every day I thank our dear Husband for this very special place of service and this calling He's given me. But it's also a responsibility, one that I feel the weight of. I don't take that responsibility lightly or casually. In fact, I think this ministry has gotten me more desperate than I've ever been in my whole life. The greatest desire of my heart is to do the very best I can in illustrating the Lord's Words, and my desire is to give you, my dear Family, the very best representation and portrayal of His Words that I can. Please pray that I can continue to do and be all that the Lord wants me to do and be. (End of note from Tamar.)

The Enemy's attempts to discredit the Word

44. (Mama:) We're not really worried that Tamar copied some art. It was a mistake in some cases to copy so much or to not to give the original artist credit, and we will remedy that. In some cases the art she was copying was drawn by an artist who emphasized the dark side. As Tamar explained earlier, we weren't aware of the reference she was using, and she takes responsibility for that. In some cases it was necessary, because the picture needed to depict demons and the evils of the Enemy, and in other cases it wasn't. In the future she will use more inspiring reference when possible.

45. While she's going to use more positive reference when she can, there will still be times she'll need to use the ugly stuff in order to get the job done. The Lord commends her for being willing to wade through the uninspiring reference when necessary, and spend the needed time getting cleaned up afterwards.

46. (Jesus:) Be thankful that your dear artist has been willing to wade through the uninspiring reference to find the pictures that help to depict these unpleasant spiritual realities. It's not fun, and it wasn't good or uplifting for her spirit, but she did it for you. And because she was faithful to seek Me for My protection, and to spend time with Me afterwards cleansing her spirit, I didn't allow it to affect her permanently. But still, it's a dirty job to look at unpleasant works of art that depict spiritual realities of the dark side.

47. So pray for those like your artists, media teams, shepherds and others, who, as part of their job for whatever reason, must at times wade through things that are unpleasant and uninspiring. All of you must be mindful of this to a certain extent, for, like "Dirty Dishes," you all have to sometimes get dirty in order to witness and be My light in the dark places. And I commend you for your willingness to do it for Me. (End of message from Jesus.)

48. (Mama:) In the future, she will use more inspiring reference when possible, and in all cases she will continue to ask the Lord to give the picture His light and Spirit, and He certainly has anointed her to portray that. So please, dear Family, don't let Tamar's use of System reference material stumble you or become a big deal to you.

49. What should be a big deal to you, however, is that the Enemy is trying to discredit the Word. That's his purpose. He's out to attack your faith. I'm sorry that you have to go through these tests. But the Enemy is fighting, and will continue to fight. He'll continue to come up with brilliant plans, façades and mirages that could throw you for a loop if your faith is shaky or if you're looking to man instead of to the Lord, or trying to figure things out and have everything make sense in the physical‚ rather than in the spirit. The Lord said:

50. (Jesus:) This attack by your enemies doesn't faze Me--if it wasn't this, it would be something else. Nevertheless, I am the Victor. That is already decided. I already suffered on the cross and rose again, defeating the worst powers of evil. I'm not worried about the outcome.

51. Ultimately it's up to each of you to decide where your faith lies. The Enemy's attacks and tactics will only become more intense, more believable, more deceiving as time goes on. The Antichrist will resort to actual miracles--Satan will empower him to do miracles similar to those My children do, and many will be deceived-–not only by the miracles, but by the cleverness of the lies, the cunningness of his words. These small attacks are only a foretaste. His attacks will only intensify with time in his attempts to lead people away from Me, to stumble them, to cause them to turn away from their faith. But I have warned you. I have prepared My children. And I must allow their faith to be tested. (End of message from Jesus.)

52. (Mama:) So where does your faith lie, dear Family? How will you take this test? Now that Tamar has humbly confessed her mistake and we've explained what happened, will you focus on her mistakes or on the Enemy's attacks on your faith?

53. Yes, Tamar made some mistakes. She went too far in some cases in her sincere desire to illustrate some of these demons and spirit beings. But the insinuations and twisting of those who are attacking her in this slideshow are far more vile and wrong in the sight of God‚ because they're distorting things to imply that God's Words aren't real. It's part of the Enemy's attempts to bury the truth and wonders of the spirit world, as well as keep the horrors of Satan from being exposed for what they are.

54. This isn't just an attack on Tamar's art, but on the truth and the Word, with its true goal being to destroy your faith in prophecy and in me as the wine taster. So resist these attacks in the spirit and fight back! Go to the Word. Claim the keys! "When your faith has been shaken by doubts, lies, and slander through the mouths of your enemies, use the keys of testimony and conviction to take the attacking initiative. When Satan bombards you, stand up and fight!"

(Jesus:) The Family will be pushed to the limit to try their faith. The faithful will stand in the end. Those who remain will be stronger than ever, and well able and ready to build the greater church. Those who leave will be happier for their choice, although even some of them will be used of Me to purge, purify, and make white the Family. There will be yet more apostates, more detractors with outlandish "stories" to test and try the hearts of the children of David. (ML #3361:61, GN 957).

What it all comes down to.

55. I'm sorry that this presentation by our detractors made it look like the prophecies in the GNs are contrived and thus can't be believed. But really, in spite of the mistakes made on Tamar's part, it's still a test that the Lord is allowing, because we are so blessed to receive so many of His Words, so many revelations from the spirit world. Granted, some of them are a bit far-out. Some of them take time for us to absorb, because they're new and wild and really different.

56. But what it all comes down to is, do the Lord's Words work for you? Do they bring you comfort? Do they give you strength? Do they have the answers you need? If so‚ then that's your answer. No matter what the Devil does to try to discredit them‚ you can stand firm, knowing that they work in your own heart and life, and they are real.

57. And continuing with that line of thinking, do the pictures on the GNs help to illustrate the Lord's Words and the concepts He's explaining, the revelations He's giving? Of course, they fall far short of the realities of the spirit world, but that's why the Lord says that "eye hath not seen," because much of it He's keeping as a surprise! But at least the art is something, illustrating it in a way that we can understand and remember and retain as illustrations of the concepts the Lord instructs us about.

58. If that's the case, and you know it works, then what does it matter if the picture or portions of it were adapted so that our dear artist could realistically complete the artwork needed to illustrate the Lord's Words? If anything, you should thank her for being humble enough to not feel like she has to do it all herself, for your sake.

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59. (Jesus:) There will always be mistakes made --by the people you live with, by people you love and respect, by people you look up to--no matter how hard everyone tries to do the right thing. That's because you're human and not perfect. It's part of My plan for mistakes to happen‚ to remind you and everyone that only I am perfect, and remind you how much you need Me. You must remember that; otherwise, between now and the time I come back, the Enemy and even your own carnal mind and nature will supply plenty of reasons for you to quit, to be stumbled, or to lose faith. There will always be tests and temptations to quit. As there have been in the past, there will continue to be so today and in the future. You must decide where your faith lies. Is it in the infallibility of imperfect men and women, or is it in Me and My perfect control and ability to make even bad things--including mistakes, sins, or errors--work for your good?

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More messages on art and the Enemy's attacks

60. (Mama:) Following are more points to consider and words of wisdom from our wonderful Husband and dear Dad.

61. (Jesus:) The Enemy knows that many of you struggle with the explanations of the spiritual warfare already. You are sometimes tempted to feel that the descriptions of the demons and spirit helpers are overdone‚ or something that goes just a bit too far. He would love to push you over the edge with this train of thought to the point that you don't believe My warnings and instruction about those who fight you, and you don't call on those who could help you. Thus the Enemy would have gained a great advantage in his fight against you. That's his hope, his goal.

62. That's what he's trying to do in discrediting My Words, and specifically the revelations that I have blessed you with, My children of David. He doesn't like being exposed, so he'll try anything to keep you from believing the things I've revealed to you about the reality of the spirit world. Don't give away your advantage in the spiritual warfare through unbelief of what I've revealed to you! Call the Enemy's bluff! Try My Words, and see if they are not true. For if they are put to the test in faith, you will find that they do work, the Enemy is exposed‚ and victory is yours! (End of message from Jesus.)

63. (Dad:) It's just like the Devil to throw a curve ball like this! He'll use whatever tactics he can, employ whatever means he can, and spread whatever stories he can‚ to sow doubt and to hurt the Family's faith.

64. The Enemy is fighting-–and fighting hard--for the souls of the Lord's children. He's employing whatever means he can to pull Family members away from the Lord, to weaken their faith. This latest attack is just another one of the distortions of the truth that he's inspiring folks to circulate around the Family in an attempt to hurt people's faith.

65. The notion that the visions and messages in the GNs are based on System artwork is a lie spun in the depths of Hell. It's a very subtle one and a very believable one, especially when these folks have dug up the pictures to "prove it." But what they don't know is that it's just the opposite in reality. The messages and visions are received first--usually by a completely different channel--and then when Tamar is praying about the artwork and how to capture the message in a picture, the Lord will often lead her to use other pictures as her reference. Yes, there have been times when Tamar herself has gotten the vision and the Lord has shown her to use some of the reference material she's seen, but it's been under His inspiration and in a very small number of cases.

66. Just because she's using reference material, even if the picture she draws is almost a complete copy, that doesn't make the message or vision or spiritual realities any less real or true. Her artwork is a vehicle for people to be able to picture in their mind's eye what the Lord's talking about, the vision He's given, the spirit helper or demons He's revealed. And as we all know, and as the Lord has said about many of our spirit helpers and even some of the demons, they can often take on different forms. Obstacon, for example, appears as a fox, a handsome man, and an obese blob‚ but those are only three of his forms and there are many others.

67. Folks often forget, too, that many of these demons and spirit helpers have been around for a long time, and we're not the only ones in the world who have ever seen them. Many people, even those in the world, get glimpses of things or people in the spirit. Artists, even those who don't know the Lord, are usually spiritual types, and some of the things they draw are actual beings they've seen in the spirit or that they've been inspired to draw, whether that inspiration came from above or below.

68. If anything, this attack on our artwork should encourage you, because the Devil only fights what he's afraid of. If the pictures Tamar drew and the artwork she produced wasn't filled with the spirit and the essence of the New Wine, then the Enemy wouldn't fight it and try to discredit it. He fights it because he knows it's powerful, because he knows it helps people grasp the Word better, and because it's filled with the Lord's Spirit!

69. So that should encourage you, Tamar, knowing that you're on the right track, you're capturing the spirit of the Word, and that's why your work is a threat to the Enemy. Praise the Lord that you're doing something right, and that's why the Enemy's fighting! Fight to rise above! That's the first step to defeating the Enemy and ruining his ugly plans. (End of message from Dad.)

70. (Jesus:) Who's to say that these other artists that Tamar has been copying have not had visions and seen these same helpers and demons? The spirit world is not a fantasy but a reality. When I led Tamar to images of it which I quickened to her, I was confirming that it was an image close to the reality of the spirit world, or at least close to one of the realities. Some of these spiritual beings can take on many forms, some which would be too difficult or scary to put down on paper. (End of message from Jesus.)

71. (Jesus:) Most of the great and famous artists of the past used models to copy the human form or to copy nature, and their students copied them to learn how to draw well. All artists are copy artists, for only I am the true Creator. Some artists have used their talents to glorify Me and others to glorify themselves, or worse‚ the Devil. But no matter what, all inspiration comes from the spirit realm. Because some of the artists Tamar copied from got their inspiration from the dark side of that realm, their art is on the dark side. But Tamar has taken some of these dark pictures and given them light, exposing the Enemy in the process. She sought Me about the needed changes and used them to glorify Me and portray My Words and present them in their true light.

72. Eye hath not seen, neither is it revealed to man the glory and beauty of My realm--nor the awful ugliness of the netherworld--but through inspired art you can capture snippets of it. The only thing Tamar's art is doing is sparking the imaginations of men and opening their eyes to the Spirit, which has been wonderful, and I am pleased with it. (End of message from Jesus.)

73. (Jesus:) Here's something that is a bit humbling for any artist to admit, but no artist can draw everything perfectly. Some can draw faces or hands; some can draw beautiful background scenes or can create the perfectly shaped and proportioned body; while others can draw animals so lifelike they almost seem to move. No artist, though, can do everything perfectly, and many can only do one or two of these exceptionally well.

74. In Tamar's case, it is difficult for her to proportion hands and bodies in unusual poses or angles, and even though she has visualized the picture I have given her to create and she sees it in her mind's eye‚ it is still very difficult to get it "just right" on paper. So she must do as most artists do--if she cannot avoid drawing such pictures, she must either ask for the help of another artist to draw the parts that are difficult or nearly impossible for her to get correct, or she must rely on reference material to help her get those particular things correct. This does not take away from the picture I have given or the accuracy of what was drawn. If anything, it enables the artist to more accurately illustrate My concept and image than if they tried to do it totally on their own. (End of message from Jesus.)

75. (Mama:) If you're still wondering about the validity of the Lord's Words after hearing this explanation, then please go to the Lord personally and ask Him to speak to you about it. If your faith is shaken and your trust is wavering, you need to get it sorted out with Him, or else the doubts will continue to grow and will pop up and haunt you in any situation where you really need to be able to rely on your faith. So ask the Lord your questions. Get His answers. Nurture your faith. Keep it‚ preserve it--not by closing yourself off, but by opening yourself up to our wonderful Husband and Lover Who understands all things‚ and can give you the explanations and answers that will make things right again.

76. Remember, just because something seems to be reality, that doesn't mean it is. The Enemy can make things seem very real too. But what is the true reality? What really works for you in your life? If it's the Lord's Words, then don't let anything cast doubt on them! Peter and I are praying for you and claiming the keys of faith and peace for you.

We love you dearly. Always yours in our wonderful Husband,

Mama

Questions to ask the Lord

77. (Prayer:) I praise You, dear Love, and thank You for these words and for setting things straight. Now that I've read Your written words to the Family as a whole on this, I'd like to get Your personal words to me as well. I call on the keys of prophecy and enlightenment. I claim Your promise that says no matter how we feel, if we claim the keys of yieldedness, You will cause us to be open, receptive channels to receive Your full counsel. Please take away my own thoughts and ideas and speak to me about the following questions:

1) After hearing this news and reading this explanation, how is my faith doing? Is there anything I need to get sorted out with You? Are there any questions still on my heart that I need to ask You about? If so, can You please give me the questions and also answer them for me?

2) You've told us that the lies of our detractors will increase as time goes on. Knowing this will happen, how can I nurture and preserve my faith? I want to stay open to You. Please give me a personal plan for the best way to do this.

(Note: If applicable, please ask the Lord the following:)

3) I admit that I'm sometimes tempted to believe our detractors' words and advice over Your Word and the things that Mama and Peter tell us. I sometimes struggle with believing certain specifics in Your Word. Why is this? What can I do about it? What do You want to tell me about this?

Text box:

(Jesus:) Faith is a gift of the spirit that many of you, sad to say, have all but lost. You've lost your childlike faith to believe, to receive‚ to grow, and to see things through My eyes. Many of you have chosen the logical, analytical, carnal, fleshly road, and you've been walking that path for so long that it's now very difficult for you to see things in the spirit. Many of you have become dull and familiar with the spiritual realm after hearing about it for many years, and now there is a great wave of those of you who have turned toward the road of your carnal mind, choosing the road of skepticism over faith.

Yes, you do believe in angels and demons, but you take it only so far and no further. You have a hard time believing the realm of the spirit actually affects the physical realm so powerfully. So because you don't believe that, you have a hard time accepting the revelations of demons, spirit helpers, and the like. Most of you are content to just look at the demons and angels as far-off beings who don't really affect life on Earth. It's sad, but true. This isn't the case with everyone, but it's quite a widespread mentality--the rejection of hearing things explained in spiritual terms and instead wanting to sort out in your own mind how it all makes sense. This lack of faith is prevalent in many areas of your lives, not just the rejection of the spiritual warfare.

It's precisely because the Enemy is fighting so hard, and you haven't raised a standard against him by strengthening your spirits with the Word, that you are lacking in faith, and because you don't really realize it, you are becoming prey to his devices. The spiritual warfare has intensified and the ante has been upped, and My Words and truth do need to be explained more clearly now than ever before, because the Enemy fights it harder than ever. But oh, how I wish that you, My children, would return to the simplicity of My Spirit, to the faith of little babes sucking to receive My Words!

You must see things in the spirit! You've got to choose to see things with the eyes of faith, because there's so much that can never be explained in carnal or fleshly terms. There's so much about the dynamics of the spirit, My spiritual gifts, and the workings of the world of the spirit that you will never understand with your human mind, and which will never make sense to the scoffer, the doubter, or the unbeliever. But that's where faith comes in--faith of a little child, faith as a grain of mustard seed, faith that can move mountains, faith that transforms you and gives you understanding.

To choose the road of faith is a choice you have to make! It's a choice no one else can make for you! But it's a vital choice, because when you lose your faith, then you have lost everything, and you're in danger of becoming alienated from My Spirit. (End of message.) (ML #3458:70-72, 74-75, GN 1043).

Reader's comments on this article
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from gringomia
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 22:30
(Agree/Disagree?)

I've always been a fan of Boris Vallejo. I've also liked most of Luis Royo and Julie Bell's art as well.

Long time ago, I bought some large posters online, and had them delivered to our next door neighbours house. Those posters went up in my closet, behind my clothes. I used to take my clothes out , and sit there playing "Diablo", or listening to Slayer, with the sound so low, you could not hear it from inside the same room.

All three of the posters I had, are in that now famous flash presentation. Titles are Mirage, Thuu of Glamit, and Eanah in the Tropics.

I also had some postcards (still do) of Nikatjef, Shalligar, as well as that opium pot.

Now when the Cathars GN came out, I noticed right away. I had the Mirage poster, and knew about the 6 fingers. I immediately compared the GN to my poster. Blatant. I did some more comparisons myself. Eanah and shalligar, as well as Britorgan were easy to spot.

One day, I was discussing art with another SGA, when she started saying that Tamar was her favorite artist, "because her pictures are so out of this world." "based on prophecy and visions". Ok think again Sharon, check out the posters in my closet. Was very much broken and confused, so the smart kid goes for "heart to heart" talk time, afterwhich uncle "D" removed the posters for being "worldly", "demonic", "having a negative influence on the home". Blah blah.

So I was right after all. And King STD and co. Please come up with something better.
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from frisbee
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 21:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree with you, your mom is not the one to blame. However That was such bull-crap i cant believe it! There are almost no words for this kind of unbelievable actions and they had to have come up with the most pathetic excuses ever, take the blame at least sometimes!
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from
Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 09:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
By the way... to defend my Mom, because I know that she shouldn't be taking the blame for any of this... why are some of you shooting the messenger? Who cares about the family artwork anyway? There is so much other art to look at... I've even noticed that some ex-members have posted artwork on this site which is quite good and I was pleasantly surprised.

I feel really sad for people who are still so bitter or have had bad experiences in the family that they can't get over.
(reply to this comment)

From Banshee
Wednesday, November 03, 2004, 11:43
(Agree/Disagree?)

It really isn’t about bitterness or placing blame, and I certainly don’t think anyone here is trying to "shoot the messenger," and or that most of the exmember SGs that are on this site are trying to get your Mother to take the blame. I think the point of this article being posted was to highlight the complete hypocrisy of Zerby and co. in trying to pass the blame on Tamar. It is ZERBY who is putting the blame on your Mom, not us x-SGs! With the way that Zerby and TF expect unquestioning loyalty and obedience, especially for those in WS, we all know how ridiculous this letter from Zerby is.

As far as "caring" about the artwork, the reason why Tamar's copied artwork was a "big deal" for a while was not so much the fact that she was copying/tracing the artwork, but that ENTIRE "prophecies" and "revelations" were based on the artwork, whole GNs were written about demons that Zerby claimed were being "revealed" in "visions" and these so-called visions just turned out to be traced fantasy artwork drawn decades ago! From what I understand, you left TF quite some time ago and probably are not aware of these GNs, but for anyone who either read the GNs, or has family still in that was affected by these GNs, it probably matters a little more to them.

The main point about all of this was the lying, not who did the tracing. It was just interesting to see just how blatantly TF and Zerby lied about the "visions" and "revelations," and could actually take them and use them to create a whole new "revolution" in TF that affects all members, make changes in TF and in the rules--all from some copied artwork. It gave solid proof that there was no low Zerby would not stoop to to manipulate and control the members of TF, and solid evidence of how much hogwash all their stupid gods and goddesses and demons and spirits and revelations really are!

(reply to this comment)
from
Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 08:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
Tamar (Jan) happens to be my mother and, therefore, I was not at all surprised to find that she copies her work. I have always known that she is a copy artist. Tamar left when I was 5 yrs to do "the lords work" in WS and I have seen her once in the last 21 years, however, we have always kept in touch. She is very talented... it is just a shame that she left art school at 17 yrs instead of developing her talents as she could have grown to be a great artist and been able to culture the ability to draw freehand. Fortunately, I left the family at age 15 yrs and was able to develop my artistic ability (which I have to say I inherited from my mother and whilst in the family I was a great "copy artist" as well and was involved in a few art projects) to include mediums such as painting, sculpture, leadlight, pottery etc. etc. Unfortunately my mother has been very limited. But at the end of the day she is happy with what she is doing and being my mother I have to say that I know she would have the best intentions and is a follower, not a leader. Think about how difficult it would be for people who have been in the family for so long to come out of it, older, with no life, no knowledge of how to survive in the "system". What is the point? I think this site is great to allow us to remain in contact and see how everyone is progressing, perhaps even help eachothere, but no use dwelling on the negatives... we have "moved on" after all!!!
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from Meathead
Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 05:50
(Agree/Disagree?)

One thing that is funny is the pic of the cathar girl with 6 fingers on 1 hand and the prophecy saying Tamar was "inspired" to draw the girl with 6 fingers and that it wasnt her drawing it but a "heavenly helper". Now how DUMB does Zerby & Tamar think we are.

Now I personaly find that an insult to my intellegence.
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from I don't buy from M anymore!
Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 21:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh my God , how much b-shit, and the worst thing is most fam members will bielive this; MIND CONTROL, DARK AGES TIMES, it's the same old shit, what is it with some people, is it that for some it's too late to get out, to start thinking on their own is it too hard for some FSAs or even SGAs to leave, so they just buy all these b- shit, I mean the way Maria turned the whole thing was amaizing, I don't know fellows but this just makes me sad, god hepl us all!
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from cool8pack
Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 15:06
(Agree/Disagree?)

From Mercy (Byron)
God bless dear Tamar for her apology (yes! not confession - she got caught, stole copyrighted material, lied, signed it has her own). Personally, I don't think she should be the one apologizing; she was just doing her job (stealing? pulling the wool over others' eyes). I think the ones who read and believe the detractors' material should be the ones apologizing (why? because someone dares to be honest about someone lying - boy! talk about calling the kettle black). How come they even have time to read that stuff?
(reply to this comment)
from cool8pack
Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 14:59
(Agree/Disagree?)

FROM CHRISTINA (MARCUS) Taiwan
It seems to be a very big deal in the West to be original (maybe, that's being an individual, something wrong about that?), maybe that's why it shocks some people when they find Tamar is mostly a copy artist. (And now we find out!) (I am too (you are so honest), and I am thankful that the Lord has given me this gift!(get real! that's not a gift so don't blame Jesus)) In the East, it's so common for people to copy each other (that's why there is zero individuality in Asians, all stereotyped, carbon copies, look at Japan) that it's not an issue at all (So, let's all live in Asia, so we can get away with shit, great answer and prospect)! Being original is sometimes just a pride trip promoted by some (Ha! Grandpa was original and not like the rest of the church - different yah!). Hey Christina - get real!!!

(reply to this comment)
from cool8pack
Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 14:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
i think the issue here is honesty and integrity don't you? hey! tamar is a copy artist. but let me see how long i can get away with it till i get caught and some smart teen shows me up. well then i'll make a confession and then jesus will say, quote, " this is being honest guys, hey, she got caught and now she has chosen to be honest, it'll strengthen my brides anyway. is this the kind of honesty that is taught in the family? not much diference from the system! and mama approves all my artwork, then why initial it as yours then. how long did she know this was going on?
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from Jules
Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 15:42
(Agree/Disagree?)

For anyone who is interested, this is from the Family's latest grapevine:

the grapevine
(Issue 167; January 15, 2004.)

In Response to…
-"Which Comes First: The Revelation or the Artwork?" (ML #3474, Post-It GN #12)

What's the fuss?
Christina (of Marcus), Taiwan: I really enjoy Tamar's pencil sketches-they have a heavenly spirit! As most people who enjoy drawing know, it's not easy to draw people with a really heavenly spirit. These illustrations help me to grasp the points that are hard for me to picture in the Letters as well.
My husband graduated from a distinguished art college in England, and has been in photo and layout work for over 30 years in the Family. I have always enjoyed drawing, and won a couple of art prizes at school in my senior high school days. I've also taken some short courses on graphic design and interior design as well.
In our experience in pub work, or even when we are painting as a pastime or with other artists, we can see as the Lord, Mama, and Tamar shared, that it's the norm in the artist world to copy or use others' artwork. Besides, even if an artist has an original idea, this idea first appears as a vision in our mind, and we simply copy it on paper or whatever other art form.
It seems to be a very big deal in the West to be original, maybe that's why it shocks some people when they find Tamar is mostly a copy artist. (I am too, and I am thankful that the Lord has given me this gift!) In the East, it's so common for people to copy each other that it's not an issue at all! Being original is sometimes just a pride trip promoted by some.
All artists copy, they can never have all original ideas. Whatever ideas that they think they come up with in their mind are either put there by God or the Devil, and they just copy it onto paper. So why do people need to make such a fuss over it? It just goes to show, as the last prophecy in the Letter shares, that it has to do with our leaning on our carnal mind and losing that simple childlike faith.
I have two experiences in the Family to prove what the Lord shares that revelation comes first, and then the artists draw it.
Years ago when I was teaching a group of young children to memorize, some of the verses were not put on the Memory Book tapes yet. I made up a tune to the verse, "A true witness delivereth souls, but a deceitful witness speaketh lies," and taught the children the song to memorize it. The Lord encouraged me to send the song in, but I felt I was not a musician, the tune didn't sound great to me, so I didn't send it in. Later when a new verse tape came out, that verse was put into song, and it was the exact same tune that the Lord had given me! I felt so ashamed that I didn't have more faith in what the Lord had given me, but at the same time it encouraged me to know that the Lord can give the same revelation (or same tune in this case), to two different people in two different countries. That encouraged me to hear from the Lord more and obey Him.
Another time I was going through some huge battles and needed to overcome bitterness. One night I had a dream about reading a GN on this subject, and the page I was reading had a black and white illustration of a guy holding an axe walking towards a huge plant of bitterness weed to cut it down. When I woke up, I knew the Lord was speaking to me to cut out the bitterness roots in my life, but I couldn't find the Letter or the illustration, because there was no such Letter at that time. A year later a Letter on bitterness was published, and one of the illustrations in the Letter was the same one I saw in my dream!
So, as the Lord and Mama shared, who can say the Lord didn't give Tamar and other Family artists those revelations and then anoint them to find some illustrations by System artists? Maybe the Lord knows our artists will need to use them, but He makes these System artists draw them just to save our artists time and work.
I pray my experiences will encourage others that the Lord does speak and give to more than one person the same idea or vision. Who cares whose art it is, as long as it illustrates the point? When you look at it, everything in our daily lives is somebody else's idea. Let's wake up and know that it's the Enemy who's attacking our faith.

The spiritual fight is on!
Mercy (of Byron), Europe: God bless dear Tamar for her apology. Personally, I don't think she should be the one apologizing; she was just doing her job. I think the ones who read and believe the detractors' material should be the ones apologizing. How come they even have time to read that stuff? After all Mama and Peter have said about it, and asked them not to read it, they still do it. It reminds me of the Letter "The Cesspool" (ML #664, Vol.5).
I don't even look at the pictures of the demons; even in the GNs it bothers me to. I know they're real no matter what they look like. I know the spiritual warfare is on; we can sense it all around us. It's all over the newspaper, and if you don't see that, instead of criticizing the artist, ask the Lord to open your mind. The next time you go through a battle, or if you're battling with doubts due to this attack, then start fighting in the spirit, rebuke the Devil, call on the good spirit helpers, and you'll see changes. The effects of your spiritual fighting will manifest themselves and you'll know the spirit world is real and you have influence on it.

"It's what the greatest artists do"
Gregg, Uganda: I was majoring in art when I met the Family and dropped out. One of my favorite artists was Norman Rockwell who used to do the covers of the Saturday Evening Post . He is perhaps America's most well-loved and famous artist. He drew people in various interesting settings, and portrayals of life in America at that time. Just one picture told a whole story and was so interesting, and the characters so vivid and real. I found out his secret!
The reason that they were so real, is that he meticulously searched out real people who fit what he wanted to picture. Usually his picture contained a number of people, and he would arrange them on a set in the exact pose that he wanted. He would set his entire scene with real people and then take a picture of it. Then, he simply copied the picture! I read a book on this once, and it showed one picture that he had drawn free hand, as he either didn't have the time to get the models or he wanted to see if he could do it on his own. It was really off. The proportions weren't right and the whole thing just lacked that usual Norman Rockwell magic. So Tamar shouldn't worry if she copies-it's what the greatest artists do.

(reply to this comment)

From jpmagero
Sunday, January 25, 2004, 16:55
(Agree/Disagree?)

{it's the norm in the artist world to copy or use others' artwork} No its not. Reference is when you use a picture as a general guideline, but when you compare the two later, they dont look like spitting images of each other.

{even if an artist has an original idea, this idea first appears as a vision in our mind, and we simply copy it on paper or whatever other art form.} Thats not called copying stupid, thats creating a piece of art, transfering an original idea to paper, or electronic form. How basic is that. You mean to say that by "copying" an idea you have in your own mind you are ripping yourself off?

{In the East, it's so common for people to copy each other that it's not an issue at all!} Thats why is the worlds pirating capital, with billions of dollars being made selling pirated dvds, software and other goods that rightfully belong to others.

{He makes these System artists draw them just to save our artists time and work} because (y)our artists are just so busy that they cant afford to draw their own pictures but have plenty of time to browse the web and find the exact match of the image that in most cases, somebody else had?

Go save the world.

(reply to this comment)

From Nancy
Saturday, January 24, 2004, 18:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
So, let me see if I get this, Jesus is "using" Boris and other artists to illustrate ideas the cult members later "receive" in order to save them time? Yeah, that's it. That's exactly what's happening.(reply to this comment)

From roughneck
Saturday, January 24, 2004, 16:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
(snip)He would set his entire scene with real people and then take a picture of it. Then, he simply copied the picture! (/snip)

This is the only relevant part of the whole discussion about What Norman Rockwell Did. If he did indeed set up and take a picture (copyright: himself) previous to doing his paintings/drawings/whatever, he was well within his legal and artistic rights to do so. Tip, Gregg: you can copy your own works as much as you like, legally. This does not apply to copying another artist's works.

Unless Tamar is in fact actually Boris Vallejo, copying &/or incorporating his art(particularly without crediting (or worse, mis-crediting) her source) *is* plagiarism, and it's something she definitely *should* feel bad about. But should Mr. Vallejo feel like incorporating characters from his own paintings/photographs into another different painting, he is firmly within his rights to do so. Get a clue!

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From Pride Tripp (no relation to Linda)
Saturday, January 24, 2004, 16:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ahh, the carnal mind, one of the best things in life. Leaving to give it some space was the best thing I ever did. it rewards me richly too. (reply to this comment)
from AA
Monday, December 29, 2003 - 21:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
What the??
52. (Mama:) So where does your faith lie, dear Family? How will you take this test? Now that Tamar has humbly confessed her mistake

Humbly confessed her mistake???. She didn't "confess"! It's wasn't possible to do anything other than admit it.Also I've found that the supposed Jesus prophecy (paragraph 32)has a major inconsistency in it. I've already written an article ("Explain this Zerby! in "Creeps") about it so I won't expound on this....
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from silver
Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 23:51
(Agree/Disagree?)

This part really cracked me up...

In order to do her work, Tamar uses reference --she looks for pictures ... to match the description the Lord has given. It saves her a tremendous amount of time, and it illustrates the concept that the Lord has given and gets the job done.

Claiming that it's all to save precious time is laughable. In the time it would take me to find a similar depiction of a previous vision (not that I have them :) on the net I could have made a short animation movie of the creature.
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From Hanna_Black
Sunday, December 28, 2003, 16:32
(Agree/Disagree?)

hmm, now that I think about it...I really wonder how long it would take to find such a perfectly matching picture of a demonic description on the net or anywhere? Some Family member was arguing with me and saying that the Flash presentation MUST have been done by an ex-member, cuz only someone like that would "waste precious time" looking for similar pictures like that. Yet...if I gave someone an idea, say for example: "I see a horned god with big bug-eyes, a pig snout and a swishy tail. He looks rather menacing, grasping a McDonalds sanwich in his right hand and an (evil) coca-cola in his left. It's as though he is threating to kill Geezus' beloved children with gluttony!!! Wow, whatta vision! Oh thank you Buddha, Satan and Gaia!"

...how long would it take for a "copy-artist" to find a corresponding picture on the net??? A week? A month? Perhaps that would be impossible, and someone could prove just that ( I am honestly too lazy to ) then someone in la-la-land might just see "the light". (reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, December 28, 2003, 18:59
(Agree/Disagree?)

I used to work at a company that licensed stock photography. We had more than a million images at our disposal. Often a client would contact us with a specific idea in his/her mind of what kind of image he/she wanted.

A detailed discription would be something like, "I need an action photo of a young man in his early twenties skiing down a slope. His clothes should be mostly white and modern -- nothing 80's. He shouldn't be wearing sunglasses and the expression on his face should be clearly visible. He needs to look like he's enjoying himself and having a great vacation."

In rare instances (once, actually during the year that I worked there) we would find an ALMOST perfect match. Most of the time, we could only come up with a good alternative (the guy was a bit older or snowboarding or standing with skies, etc).

Mind you we had our entire image library neatly organised into categories and sub-categories, not to mention a search engine for the digital media.

The chances of getting as perfect a match as the images are to the prophecies are so low that you'd have better luck trying for the winning lottery number--far less variables there.

Another thing that I find odd about Tamar's excuse in which she claims to have seen the picture before the prophecy is that she claims the prophecy was given a year or more after the image was last seen.

I pride myself in my photographic memory (it came in very handy at my job at the image library), but even I would be hard pressed to describe in as much detail a random selection of those images I worked with on a daily basis 1 1/2 years ago.(reply to this comment)

From Joe H
Sunday, December 28, 2003, 17:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's so sweet that they accuse us of wasting "precious time," when they are the ones who have no jobs, get up at 8:30, sit on their asses for 2 hours in "devotions," then tidy up the house and maybe get 2 hours of begging in before dinner and wordtime. Maybe if they worked for a living they would know a thing or two about what the phrase "precious time" means!(reply to this comment)
from enigma
Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 13:52
(Agree/Disagree?)

This Zerby letter would have been comical if it weren’t so pathetic. Here is my theory of what took place in the days preceding this letter:

Peter and Zerby reprimand Tamar.

Zerby : Tamar, I can’t believe you did this. Don’t you realize that this is stumbling even some of our most “dedicated members”. On top of that you pretty much lied in your interview and said your pictures were heavenly inspired.

Peter: We have discussed it and we want you to take full responsibility for your actions. Don’t worry you won’t take all the blame. We checked the “Moving on” site for ideas and we came up with a good list of all the excuses they thought we might use. Believe it or not there were actually some good ones.

Zerby: So we want you to write an apology and we will also add all the excuses into the GN. Even though a lot of the excuses contradict each other I can’t help it. I especially like my favorite excuse that can cover almost any subject regardless that it is your fault “The devil is attacking us”.

End of theory

Tamar: “I take the blame--something which is my responsibility alone to bear.“. “But in reality‚ the buck stops with me when it comes to what reference I use or how much of it.” (GN#666, 33, 40)

Tama takes full responsibility? Just a thought if she is taking all the blame then why the need to cast the blame on others ie: The Devil, Apostates, etc. I believe it was Roosevelt who said “The buck stops here”. The difference between Tamar saying that and Roosevelt saying it is that one was a President (the top position) the other is an underling. I’m sorry Tamar the buck doesn’t stop with you it stops at the top. Didn’t Zerby appoint herself “the wine taster”? I thought she has said that she is involved in every aspect of producing “the word”. Tamar: “but certainly when it comes time for her to approve a picture, she is very attuned and gifted in discerning any discrepancies or ways in which a picture could send the wrong signal” (GN#666, 41). Have her tasting skills diminished? Let’s assume for a moment that she had no idea what Tamar was doing. Shouldn’t she as “the wine taster” be able to figure that out that Tamar is all out plagiarizing? (Oh, I’m sorry that was assuming prophecy is real).

(Quote) Zerby: “In some cases it was necessary, because the picture needed to depict demons and the evils of the Enemy, and in other cases it wasn't.” (GN#666,44). So it is OK to plagiarize and lie if it is needed to depict demons or devils? How logical is that. By the way Zerby, if you could be more specific as to which times it was OK and which times it was not OK to lie about it and use those pictures. Maybe you could go through these letters for the last few years and give some examples. Oh, I forgot that might stumble some of you dedicated followers.

I don’t have time to point out all the inconsistencies, seeing how loaded with them this letter is. But I find it funny how their “loving husband” and “ grandpa” have time to do things like fly around checking the homes kitchens for sweets and claim to know the most private details of their members. Yet Zerby & Peter claim not to have known what was happening right under their noses for years with something they are very involved in. Well if your going to tell a lie tell a big one. Or in this case if you’re going to cover your rear do it all out.
(reply to this comment)
from cheeks
Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 18:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
I just want you to note they "checked with the Lord." do you know that in the new wine the Lord gives them messages about the new movie releases and how they rate. If they are good movies or bad.I'm sure that He has that much time on His hands. Do you suppose He watches the actual movie Himself or do you supose He watches them make the movie and then guesses what it is about?
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From Crystal Methodist
Thursday, December 25, 2003, 18:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
I wouldn't be surprised if they plagiarize their reviews from http://hollywoodjesus.com/(reply to this comment)
from Albatross
Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 17:38
(Agree/Disagree?)

Well....I just got back from a week spent on a beach in Mexico and this beautiful little gem from Zerby and Tamar welcomes me home. It's almost enough to make me believe in Christmas. When I recover from the hangover from that bottle of Dom I've been saving, I'll have more to add, but for now......It's seems that Zerby and team are so very in tune to identifying the demons in our midst...and somehow miss the ones in their own.......Zerby...are you sure it was a "detractor" who made that flash presentation? Don't forget (again) to look for the demons close to home. "What is known as a copy artist"? >>>> impolite little laugh....oh please... And Tamar baby... If you play with fire......Can't say that I feel for you.

Daniel
(reply to this comment)
from Benz
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 22:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Zerby got one thing right: Par #1 …we get closer and closer to the End….

….yes Zerby…. the end is close for you…..you may be a prophet yet!!!

I personally don’t consider myself religious, but I’ve never heard of any religious group excusing themselves by the actions of some people in mainstream society as Zerby has just done.

One big difference between secular artists who copy, trace or plagiarise. - They don’t pretend the pictures are “prophecies”, “visions” from a homosexual Jesus or other famous dead person.

What’s next…the Catholic Church Choir boys throwing raw meat into the congregation because “Ozzy Osborne” did it, so they can do it too??

(reply to this comment)
from Mack
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 21:55
(Agree/Disagree?)

It's called breaking the law (copy right law); when TF makes their uneducated children sell the plagiarized art, disguising the sale as receipt of a donation.

I will not live to see the end of the world but I will live to see the end of TF even if it's at my own hand. Run and hid TF freaks because the enemies out to get you the enemy you created.

TF members are by far the most ignorant blind followers I could imagine. I have an idea to end TF, send them all a GN telling them to eat four table spoons of RAT POISON in a cup of tea and the idiots would be gone. They do and believe everything else they're told to by Peter Maria, so why would they question an early rapture before the tribulationJ
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From itsxena2u
Saturday, December 27, 2003, 21:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
That is what concerns me the most about my mom. I love her to death but I fear that she has burned all her bridges, "put herself on a limb and cut if off" and never looking back. Very much as TF likes to teach its members, to the point that they never plan ahead for the future. She never took much interest in our education or prepared us for any life other than in TF. So if she didn't care much about us in that sense then how likely is she to be prepared to service in her soon coming old age? Does TF have any programs to take care of the elderly? And if they do, what guarantee that she'll be taken care of until she dies? What if she blows it and gets kicked out in her old age, and then who is going to take care of her when she no longer can take care of herself. She joined when she was 17 yrs. Has never had a job (except waitressing for 3 months to raise funds to return to Brazil when I was just 6 yrs old), doesn't have any retirement funds and probably will receive little or perhaps no Social Security Income, because she's never ever paid taxes!!! My mother has all her faith, hopes and dreams in TF. She has never wavered a bit in her trust in it. She has never prepared or even considered a life outside TF. She will believe TF over her own daughters! If TF were ever to dissapate, I don't know what she'd do. She does not have a back up plan and will never consider it. I don't think she is capable of taking her own life, but what if a prophecy or vision so strong came out telling its members to disown their own or curse their loved ones. I am wondering if there are parents who so strongly believe that TF is right that they would do such a thing? Maybe even suicide, if it is worded in such a way that it would seem like the "Lord's Will at the time"!! (reply to this comment)
from Mir
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 18:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ha ha ha ha ha!!! HA HAHAH AHAHAH AHAHAAA! This is so funny! These people are so stuck up their own backsides! That poor old bat has got herself into trouble! She should know that old Zerby would pass the buck!
(reply to this comment)
from Wolf
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 12:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
“There are several points that I want to bring out that I think will help give you a better understanding of the way things really are”

As if you had a clue about the way things really are.

“That might be disillusioning for you, but she is what's known as a copy artist.”

And you, Zerby, are what’s known as a con artist. You’re not very good at it either. If it weren’t for Berg you’d still be picking your pimples and wishing you could get a lay.

“Remember Dad's vision of the goddesses? He was looking at a photo from Playboy magazine.”

Yeah, I know what you mean, I get most of my visions that way too.

(reply to this comment)
from dave
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 12:28
(Agree/Disagree?)

Can't Zerby tone it down a bit? All this "attacks of the enemy" defense is getting really old. Zerby reminds me of past newclips of Bin Laden speaking to his deranged followers ranting against the "great Satan" and the West. People like that always think they're right and portray themselves as victims instead of admitting fault.

Another thing, I can feel some in WS rushing to justify that "Well, since the Family's publications that included Tamar's forged art were not sold to anyone in the Family or to the public for that matter, if a lawsuit did occur we would not be liable for any major compensation. We did not profit from Tamar's art".

But let me just say this by asking the next question: What is the first thing that happens to a Family home when the home does not send in their monthly tithe, or sends in an incomplete tithe, or better yet they decide to not tithe for a particular month due to financial difficulties, or whatever?

Answer: The first thing that happens is WS suspends their 'mailings'. We all know what happens to that home next, if they don't get 'back on track'. So, along with other so-called benefits, the Family member tax-payer does pay for the GNs, Zines and other Family publications and material, regarless if the pubs were designed for sale or not.

Dave

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From itsxena2u
Saturday, December 27, 2003, 21:32
(Agree/Disagree?)

I couldn't agree more. Why is it that the only thing TF seems to talk about is their enemies, demons, the Devils atacks etc?? If it's not Spirituall warfare then is doubts, jealousy and murmuring. Is this perhaps because Peter and Zerby are fighting so hard to keep their power and control over TF that feeding and uplifting their flock is no longer a concern for them??!

Let's face it guys! Freedom of speech is non existant. If you speak your mind it is considered "doubting" because how can leadership possibly be wrong??

If you express your opinions you are "murmuring" especially if it is said in a manner in which it sounds like dissagree with the decision being made.

And lets not forget, if you are hurting inside because the person you have dedicated your life to living and loving "till death do us part" is fucking someone else (whether they're enjoying it or not) to "help a person in need", you're considered a jealous and selfish person. My God!! What the Fuck is wrong with jealousy?? If you really love someone and are willing to dedicate your life to that person, wouldn't it hurt you if you knew your other half was sleeping around to obey the Lord's Will?? And what about the mate that is doing the "sharing", he or she is probably feeling guilty because he/she knows that their mate is suffering jealousy pains. This bull shit of sharing outside of marriage has destroyed more marriages than if we just stuck with our mates and let the singles find a mate in or outside TF!! (reply to this comment)
from Definition
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 11:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Zerby: “She’s what is known as a ‘copy artist.’”
Um…“what is KNOWN”? By who exactly is this “known”?

Let’s just get this straight: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A COPY ARTIST!!!

Do a Google search, or a Yahoo search, or any other kind of search, and you will find no such thing.

What you do find is some mentioning of copying other artists, but solely in a LEARNING capacity, until you develop your own style, and with clear warnings to not use the copied work for anything other than learning, and especially not to publish it.

The most information you find on copying art is on the copy write laws. Those are very, very clear. If Boris Vallejo or Luis Royo or Rowena Morrill or Jim Warren (to name the Artists most frequently copied by Tamar) wanted to sue, they would have a case. One fantasy art website (Elfwood.com) put it like this:

http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp/fairuse/fairuse.html

What is Protected?

First, I must clarify what is protected under copyright law, and make an important distinction between an artist's/writer's work and the ideas behind that work. Copyright law only protects the expression of an idea , not an idea itself.

Therefore, while Artist B may not copy a work by Artist A, Artist B may certainly be inspired by Artist A's work. Artist B is also allowed to incorporate those concepts--in his or her own fashion-- into new works. Under copyright law, Artist A can make no complaint if Artist B 'steals' ideas and incorporates them, but if Artist B not only takes ideas but the expression of an idea, then Artist A has a case. The 'taking' doesn't have to be literal--meaning, the work doesn't have to be a perfect match. However, it has to be close enough that IF THE TWO IMAGES WERE HELD UP IN COURT, THE JUDGE LOOKING AT THEM COULD BELIEVE ONE WAS COPIED FROM THE OTHER, not merely inspired by the other.

It would seem any judge would be able to tell these works were copied, not, as they put it, “merely inspired by the other.”
So much for their “copy artist.” I just hope that somebody will sue these cheats.

(reply to this comment)

From Big Sister
Tuesday, December 23, 2003, 15:56
(Agree/Disagree?)

I did a google search for 'copy artist' and found a web site where "professional copy artists" copy Vermeer paintings by hand and the copy is then sold as a reproduction of a famous painting. The site clearly uses the term copy artist and explains that this is legal because "we do not attempt to pass them off as originals. We only produce copies of works which have passed out of copyright and into public domain. This means that the artists must have been deceased for at least seventy years. Our reproductions are legal copies, so this has nothing to do with forgery."

http://www.about-vermeer-art.com/paintings/vermeer-misc/faq.html

I would guess a Family attorney (they do have legal counsel don't they?) did the same search and came up with this weak term. I would encourage Boris Vallejo and others to pursue a suit. Rest assured, it will be expensive for TF to launch a defense! (reply to this comment)

From Definition
Tuesday, December 23, 2003, 16:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, it's true that there are those kinds of "copy artists", although, if I'm not mistaken, the more correct term is "reproduction artist." I did not spend a lot of time researching it, but I did look in several dictionaries and could not find a definition for either. But a reproduction artist is a fairly common name for those who reproduce the master's and other famous artwork, which are all, as you mentioned, public domain. This is such a far cry from what Tamar does and the type of artist that she is, which is why it is so insanely ludicrous for Zerby to claim "she is what is known as a 'copy artist.'" Zerby, there is one description for what Tamar is: a Plagiarizing thief!!(reply to this comment)
from wellington
Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 10:17
(Agree/Disagree?)

In regards to what to what Lauren posted concerning GN#666, I'd like to say the following: You are totally right! A lot of art from the GN's has been copied from RPG game books which all of us know are totally demonic, not to mention esoteric.
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from Joe H
Monday, December 22, 2003 - 14:53
(Agree/Disagree?)
A "copy artist"! What a fascinating euphemism! I never knew that all that time I spent as a child tracing was actually training for a career as a "copy artist"! I can't believe I missed that thrilling opportunity and became a systemite software engineer instead!
(reply to this comment)
from Yeah, right...
Monday, December 22, 2003 - 12:52
(Agree/Disagree?)

I was wondering which of the different predictable explanations and justifications they would use. I had a few in mind. It was hilarious to see them use them all!!

1) For starters, of course, the main time-proven one: “IT’S ALL AN ATTACK OF THE ENEMY”
5. As convincing or clever as this slideshow may be, IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN AN OUTRIGHT ATTACK ON OUR FAITH.
18. The Enemy is not only trying to discredit My Word, but he wants to preserve his evil forces. He's angry that his demons are being exposed and that a "face" is being put on them for My children to recognize and rebuke and actively fight. He's angry that you're learning so many concepts of the spirit that are going to spell such defeat for his kingdom of darkness. He's angry at My Words and he's trying to discredit My Words. But that's useless, because My Words are true, they work, and they have been proven over and over and over again, and will continue to be proven. So the lies will be exposed, and good will come of this.
49. WHAT SHOULD BE A BIG DEAL TO YOU, HOWEVER, IS THAT THE ENEMY IS TRYING TO DISCREDIT THE WORD. That's his purpose. He's out to attack your faith. I'm sorry that you have to go through these tests. But the Enemy is fighting, and will continue to fight. He'll continue to come up with brilliant plans, façades and mirages that could throw you for a loop if your faith is shaky or if you're looking to man instead of to the Lord, or trying to figure things out and have everything make sense in the physical‚ rather than in the spirit.

2) Then, the next biggie: “EVERYONE DOES IT”
9. Most artists, even if they're not copy artists‚ use reference material of some sort or another–-whether another artist's work, or photographs, or models, or whatever. In fact, there's a huge market for such materials on the Internet. If you do a web search on the term "artist reference," you'll find millions of hits, and many thousands of them are people selling photos, slides‚ reference books and guides and resources for artists. Some artists use more reference than others. Others need help and send their work to another artist to perfect whatever they have a hard time with--like hands, or hair, or body proportions, or animals, or intricate backgrounds, or whatever the case may be.
11. For that matter, copying isn't particular to the art world. Musicians copy other songs and styles--even many of the great hymns of the past were copied from popular songs of their era. Writers copy ideas and writing styles from other writers. Movie makers copy concepts and characters and scenes from other movies. Architects copy the designs of their buildings from other architects. Web designers create replicas of other sites they've seen and like. Even industrial designers copy extensively from their peers, which is why it's often so hard to tell one model of car from another at first glance these days!
24. (Tamar:) Prior to joining the Family, while attending art school‚ I learned HOW MUCH COPYING WAS JUST PART OF LIFE WITHIN THE ART AND GRAPHICS WORLD. Something was always a copy of something else. COPYING WAS THE NORM--whether copying an idea, or part of a picture, or even a large part of a picture with just a small adaptation made. It was the accepted norm for many artists in the world. Prior to this I think I had somewhat of an idealistic view of art-–that it all had to be totally original. Even the realization that top artists and designers use photos, models and other pictures was new to me. I was shocked that people actually did that. Now that broke my bottle, but once I realized this and took my unrealistic ideals regarding art off the pedestal I'd placed them on, that's when I felt encouraged that even my talent--however small--could be used and developed.

3) This was a fairly expected one: “IT’S TAMAR’S FAULT”
33. (Tamar:) … I'm very sorry if my having used this System reference material in any way distracted or cast a shadow on the Lord's Words. If this has happened, I TAKE THE BLAME--SOMETHING WHICH IS MY RESPONSIBILITY ALONE TO BEAR.
40. (Tamar:) However, I know that there have been times where I have leaned on reference too much and more or less completely copied an existing System picture. THIS WAS MY MISTAKE, NOT MAMA'S OR PETER'S OR ANYONE ELSE'S. As I said‚ Mama and those I work with aren't aware of what reference I use‚ or how much. Of course they trust that I'll be prayerful and discern what reference to use and what not to use. But in reality‚ the buck stops with me when it comes to what reference I use or how much of it.
42. In retrospect, I KNOW I CROSSED THE LINE in copying too much. I've always been insecure about my gift and felt I didn't do a very good job all on my own, so I've sometimes defaulted to using reference automatically--whereas I know the Lord wants me to have more faith and to expand and grow and reach out for His power to work in me more fully. I'm very sorry if my leaning on this crutch has caused your faith to be hurt. I also should have given credit where credit was due when a picture was a complete copy. I do pray this explanation helps and answers any questions you may have.

4) Along similar lines to it being Tamar’s fault: “WE DIDN’T KNOW”
38. (Tamar:) It may help you to know that even though Mama and my teamworkers realize I am a copy artist and that I use reference for my work, THEY DON'T SEE WHAT REFERENCE I USE FOR THE PICTURES, NOR HOW MUCH REFERENCE I USE OR COPY. THEY ALSO DID NOT KNOW THAT I WAS COPYING SO EXTENSIVELY. My co-workers are not artists and are not familiar with the world of art reference. I work alone in my room, my reference is on my computer, and I've never been in the habit of displaying my reference or showing those I work with what reference material I use for my pictures. However, I do circulate the art ideas and finalized GN picture to people in Mama's Home and other units for their suggestions and input. Then Mama final approves the picture.
44. (Mama:) We're not really worried that Tamar copied some art. It was a mistake in some cases to copy so much or to not to give the original artist credit, and we will remedy that. In some cases the art she was copying was drawn by an artist who emphasized the dark side. As Tamar explained earlier, we WEREN'T AWARE OF THE REFERENCE SHE WAS USING, AND SHE TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. In some cases it was necessary, because the picture needed to depict demons and the evils of the Enemy, and in other cases it wasn't. In the future she will use more inspiring reference when possible.

5) The outlandish one: “THE LORD REVEALED THE DEMONS TO OTHER ARTISTS”
67. Folks often forget, too, that many of these demons and spirit helpers have been around for a long time, and we're not the only ones in the world who have ever seen them. Many people, even those in the world, get glimpses of things or people in the spirit. Artists, even those who don't know the Lord, are usually spiritual types, and some of the things they draw are actual beings they've seen in the spirit or that they've been inspired to draw, whether that inspiration came from above or below.
70. (Jesus:) Who's to say that these other artists that Tamar has been copying have not had visions and seen these same helpers and demons? The spirit world is not a fantasy but a reality. When I led Tamar to images of it which I quickened to her, I was confirming that it was an image close to the reality of the spirit world, or at least close to one of the realities. Some of these spiritual beings can take on many forms, some which would be too difficult or scary to put down on paper. (End of message from Jesus.)

6) And, as always, skirting the issues, (THE CATHAR PICTURE NOT ADDRESSED) or acting like they never claimed otherwise: “TAMAR’S INSPIRATION”
7. First of all, yes, it's true that Tamar copies other art in many of her drawings. That might be disillusioning for you, but she is what's known as a copy artist. That's what her talent is--she copies or traces parts of other pieces of art and adapts them to suit the style and concept that she's illustrating, using her gifts to combine it all and make it a good representation of the message the Lord has given. (This contradicts everything they ever said before about Tamar’s art talent. They NEVER claimed her as a “copy artist.” No, she was divinely inspired.)
21. (Tamar:) First of all‚ let me say that I'm what's known as a copy artist, which means to a large degree I lean on reference--in the form of photos and pictures from various sources--in composing and putting together my pictures. This is the talent the Lord's given me and the way I've drawn for many years now. (Would have been nice if you’d said that in your interview now, wouldn’t it?)

7) And for a nice wrap-up: “GUILT-TRIP ON THE FOLLOWERS”
52. (Mama:) So where does YOUR faith lie, dear Family? How will YOU take this test? Now that Tamar has humbly confessed her mistake and we've explained what happened, will you focus on her mistakes or on the Enemy's attacks on your faith?
54. This isn't just an attack on Tamar's art, but on the truth and the Word, with its true goal being to destroy your faith in prophecy and in me as the wine taster. So resist these attacks in the spirit and fight back! Go to the Word. Claim the keys! "When your faith has been shaken by doubts, lies, and slander through the mouths of your enemies, use the keys of testimony and conviction to take the attacking initiative. When Satan bombards you, stand up and fight!"
58. If that's the case, and you know it works, then WHAT DOES IT MATTER if the picture or portions of it were adapted so that our dear artist could realistically complete the artwork needed to illustrate the Lord's Words? IF ANYTHING, YOU SHOULD THANK HER for being humble enough to not feel like she has to do it all herself, for your sake.
75. (Mama:) If you're still wondering about the validity of the Lord's Words after hearing this explanation, then please go to the Lord personally and ask Him to speak to you about it. If your faith is shaken and your trust is wavering, YOU NEED TO GET IT SORTED OUT WITH HIM, or else the doubts will continue to grow and will pop up and haunt you in any situation where you really need to be able to rely on your faith.

I also loved this little gem they threw in there: When talking about how Tamar admits to having seen the pictures already, then getting the prophecy and drawing of “Pan and Bacchus”, THEY ACTUALLY PAT THEMSELVES ON THE BACK FOR HONESTY!!!
35. You know, Tamar didn't have to bring up the fact that she received the messages describing Pan and Bacchus and later drew the pictures of them. We didn't mention that in the original GN about them and we didn't have to mention it here. In fact, we knew some of you would have questions when we brought it up. But WE WANTED TO BE HONEST AND OPEN WITH YOU and explain how this happened, and when we checked with the Lord on this, He confirmed that it was a good idea and gave us the following wise counsel:
(reply to this comment)

From banal_commentator
Friday, December 26, 2003, 13:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
The stupidity of Zerby’s logic is below my contempt. It is very frustrating reasoning with someone who has the audacity to throw such outlandish claims in your face with nonchalance. It’s like a pathological liar who defends his story to the bitter end although logic, common sense or even plain evidence have proven otherwise. I am at a lost for words when talking to people like Zerby, and therefore my parents, who use this kind of circular reasoning. It’s like if you have the gull, if you are idiot enough to throw that argument in my face then I cannot even disagree with you. All I can do is sit back and wonder at the capable degeneration of the human mind. However I cannot resist poking fun at their lame and predictable rebuttals listed by “Yeah Right”.

“IT’S ALL AN ATTACK OF THE ENEMY”
Much like the good ol’ “the devil made me do it” every time they break the law or accused of something they blame it on some metaphysical force. “We molested our children now the devil is attacking us through social services. Begging is not allowed here the devil is trying to stop our work. Prostitution is fine if you’re a hooker for Christ.” If you subscribe to Berg/Zerby’s philosophy, you not only have to believe that there exists a devil and a Jesus who both have a morbid fascination with your personal life you also have to believe that molesting children and being a whore is in Jesus’ best interest (at least the Jesus that most Christians worship just wants you to sing pretty hymns to him once a week). Anyway, breaking the law and then blaming it on a deity whose authority (much less your definition of what he would endorse if he was an authority) is not recognized by the supreme court or individuals with half a brain, is not going to justify your sex crimes, plagiarism etc. I mean, is this news to anyone??? I have an idea, next time I’m mad at someone I’ll kill ‘em and explain myself away by saying that Jesus told me that I am his crowned queen of justice which means that I have a heavenly license to kill. Zerby’s whole thesis of this devil thing summed up in her sentence: “5. As convincing or clever as this slideshow may be, IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN AN OUTRIGHT ATTACK ON OUR FAITH” is merely a reinstatement of what she is being accused of. Damn right the show was convincing and clever and double damn right it’s attacking your faith. She is proving absolutely nothing!!!! It is inane as saying: “my finger prints on that gun were strong evidence that I am the murderer; however, all that gun is proving is that I am the murderer”. ????? Laugh with me now!

“EVERYONE DOES IT”
Isn’t it amazing how they twist and bend everything they say to cater to each accusation. They claim that they are a revolution that their messages of masturbation and molestation are for the selective few that they aren’t trying to sell it to the masses. (“King Peter” actually said this while defending the Law of Love). That not everyone can handle the meat of the word, that they are called out to be separate among them. But this time they try a different tactic “we are just like everyone else; its nothing new.” I can see Berg turning in his grave now that his successor is “becoming one” with the general public. Not very revolutionary now are we Zerb. They are selling themselves to their followers using originality as their prime feature with products like vandari and the proud gay demon, so to come out now and try to sell em on conformity Is certainly confusing for the poor family member and does nothing for their already sordid repetition of contradicting themselves.

“IT’S TAMAR’S FAULT” Why didn’t I think of that? Forget that she is asked to sign a blank sheet of paper everyday, forget that she is supposed to blindly listen to Jesus and submit herself therefore to god and follow Zerbs every twisted “revelation.” Suddenly Tamar, that black sheep, grows a brain, steps out of the lords service using, mind you, the tool that helps her do the lords service (prophecy). Excuse me, but isn’t the point of being in a cult to follow your leaders??? When people die of aids because of a virus, do you try to kill the virus or the people??? When you write endless letters about how you should wank off a four year old to sleep and your followers start copying you do you then say that it was only a few perverted individuals. Just one rotten apple. Do you then go and tell your followers that a bad tree brings forth bad fruit

“WE DIDN’T KNOW”
That’s cause Jesus was off fighting crime when Tamar was doing this. I know that he runs the universe and is omnipresent and all esp. with us cause he drinks tea with us every morning, but for the months that it took her to complete her lame art he just had a daunting schedule…. Apparently, this Jesus dude isn’t too powerful if he can’t control his own cult members.

“THE LORD REVEALED THE DEMONS TO OTHER ARTISTS”
This is the first thing that I thought they would say when I saw the show. Of course, of course. This gives new meaning to the mo quote “when all else fails you still have Jesus.” Good ol’ Jesus our savior who excuses us, whose impulsive, volatile irrational whims are beyond our control, cannot be explained. Who is our God and King and most of all whose ways are not our ways. When accused of plagiarism just say it was Jesus. He’s the king of the universe ain’t he? He can do what he wants. I mean he’s a busy guy, he can’t come up with an original description every time he reveals demons to other artists. (I actually said this before I saw their rebuttal.) Oh Jesus, you never fail us.

skirting the issues, (THE CATHAR PICTURE NOT ADDRESSED) or acting like they never claimed otherwise: “TAMAR’S INSPIRATION”

With every single one of their tactics they are skirting the issue. It is too obvious, nothing need be said. Translating the equivalent of their arguments into normal language:
“The prosecution attacked me”---your guilty
“Timothy McVeigh killed people too”---your guilty
“My apprentice did it”---your guilty
“I didn’t know, I fell unconscious”---Bullshit, your guilty
“The Devil made me do it”---your guilty
“I am not a murderer I am a “misery suppresser” (copy artist)”---your guilty
“You guys have me on trial for murder, feel sorry for me”---your guilty
This whole “copy artist” thing really threw me. Now I am going to paste a paragraph from their letter which I will not comment on. I only ask that you take a moment to consider this excerpt:
“ 7. First of all, yes, it's true that Tamar copies other art in many of her drawings. That might be disillusioning for you, but she is what's known as a copy artist. That's what her talent is--she copies or traces parts of other pieces of art and adapts them to suit the style and concept that she's illustrating, using her gifts to combine it all and make it a good representation of the message the Lord has given”
If you even need me to explain to you the stupidity of this concept, then I have nothing to say to you.

And for a nice wrap-up: “GUILT-TRIP ON THE FOLLOWERS”

Now they turn around and make it look like proof that Jesus does really speak to him. That this whole saga happened all in their favor. That it wasn’t a hinderence but it strengthened their faith. That you’d be a fool to not have even more faith in Jesus. All I have to say to TF members is that if you are stupid enough to eat this shit, then you deserve to be led by Zerby.
Alright I’ve spent way too much time talking about Zerby, fallacies in family logic and using cult terms that I better stop lest I get teased by Jerseygirl.

Banal Commentator
Professional Copy Artist (reply to this comment)

From Benz
Friday, December 26, 2003, 18:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well said Banal,

I agree, one of the reasons "The Family" has been able to get away with so much over the years is through their use of this hopless and ridiculously frustrating circular reasoning/ logic. - But they do not stop there, they also pretend to know what right & wrong is, mixed up somewhere in a circular reasoning that knows no right or wrong, no reasoning.

When someone sees and understands what it actually is they believe/ preach, it creates the feeling of pity toward them, their extreme disollusionment with what would appear to be "life" plain & simple. - But this circular reasoning, and the pity you feel toward them for them becomes their own tool against you, because it is impossible to reason with people who will stop at nothing to hurt themselves in order to get more pity, even if it means hurting their own children. (reply to this comment)
from (
Monday, December 22, 2003 - 09:43
(Agree/Disagree?)

"10. * You* might not realize this, but.. ." if I were still in TF I would be sick of the condescencion they whip out every time somebody asks a question to make them feel bad or stupid for asking, since good answers are in such short supply in Zerby's realm.

(reply to this comment)
from Vicky
Monday, December 22, 2003 - 07:03
(Agree/Disagree?)

"Of course, I feel that it would be wonderful if the Lord had given me the gift of literally being able to get "spirit drawings from Heaven," but with me that's not the case." - Tamar

Isn't that exactly what she claimed happened when she was drawing the picture of the cathar woman???
(reply to this comment)
from Peter
Monday, December 22, 2003 - 06:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
Strangely enough, I couldn't find the part where they explain how they intend to remedy the copyright infringement. Although they say, "it was a mistake in some cases to copy so much or to not to give the original artist credit, and we will remedy that," they fail to make it clear if the remedy will include obtaining permission and a license to republish the copyrighted works and derivatives based on it or whether their sole inadequate remedy is attribution. Their response makes it very clear that the infringement was willful and intentional and not merely an oversight. Despite what the response by TF implies, blatant copyright infringement is not a standard industry practice. It is certainly not tolerated in most professional or academic environments.

There are "fair use" and parody exceptions and defenses applicable under certain circumstances but they certainly would not work in this case. It should also be noted that one of the most common myths and popular misconceptions about copyright seems to be the idea that non-commercial uses are not infringing when in fact they almost always are unless they constitute "fair use" or fall under some other exception. However, TF has clearly derived a financial benefit from the infringement because its members are required to pay a percentage of their income to receive the publications containing unauthorized reproductions of copyrighted works and unauthorized derivatives of copyrighted works. TF policy clearly links these payments to receipt of publications as one of the first steps in their collection process is to suspend publication mailings when payment is past due.

I think they should be very concerned because some of the artists (like Vallejo and Royo), whose copyrights they infringed, are well known for strictly and aggressively enforcing their rights even if the infringement is relatively minor. For example, in one case Vallejo threatened to sue an individual who copied some of his artwork to represent a character in a roleplaying game (http://www.shadowrayven.com/laws-causes/websites/borrowart.htm ).
(reply to this comment)

From High on the Holy Ghost
Monday, December 22, 2003, 10:14
(Agree/Disagree?)

Ok, why doesn't someone send this information to the original writers and see how they feel about everything that was said in Maria's #666 letter?

Does anyone know how to contact the artist?

That would be very interesting if they knew their material was being distributed worldwide.

Any ideas?(reply to this comment)

From exister
Monday, December 22, 2003, 12:08
(Agree/Disagree?)
Boris Vallejo has seen the flash presentation and the original article on this site. If you want to show him Zerby's admission of guilt and complicity his email is bjart1@imaginistix.com.(reply to this comment)

From banal_commentator
Friday, December 26, 2003, 09:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
I sent this link to that address and the reply I got back from Boris said: "truthfully, we are not interested in this nonsense." signed Boris and Julie.(reply to this comment)

From Joe H
Friday, December 26, 2003, 12:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's cool. I've always like the cut of his jib. Well I guess if Boris can't be arsed to start a lawsuit, maybe his agent/manager will feel differently.(reply to this comment)