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Getting Through : Lighten Up
Bizarre Conclusion Comedy.com | from steam - Monday, February 07, 2005
accessed 4204 times I guess when you live in a crazy house some bizarre things can sound like a reasonable defense. Some of the comments on "My Conclusion" are damn funny. I propose people use this article space to link to the “conclusions” that tickle the funny bone in an “I may as well laugh or I’m going to cry” sort of way. I have to nominate the following, as it seems to hit so many layers of irony it’s hard to fathom. By the way I actually know this guy and he is a real nice character, it just goes to show being nice is no guarantee of any spark of intelligence. Enjoy this link:
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/28/johnny-were-proud-of-you/
He begins by explaining with all pride in his decision, that he abandoned his sixteen-year-old son to big city London “without much help from us except our prayers”. He goes on that his son has suffered from being mugged and plenty of other difficulties, but now he is successful with “more money than I’ll ever make”. At the end you find out his son is a struggling waiter raising money for a bicycle trip in Asia.
He blasts the media for their coverage of the Ricky situation claiming he himself has a degree in journalism, and then without even realizing how bizarre it sounds, informs us “I don’t say this to condemn every newspaper or every journalist, or even everything that’s been written recently about Ricky Rodriquez and Angela Smith, because I haven’t read any of it.” There’s plenty more but as a little icing on the cake he lets us in on his daydream to shock those who speak out, with electric ten foot poles, “because they say the (sic) shock treatment used to work on crazy people; maybe it still does”.
His name is Philip Handyman, and it just may be that he has accidentally stuck his fingers in one to many sockets. Anyway post your own links to “bizarre conclusions” so we can all enjoy. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Moonsetter
Friday, June 01, 2007 - 18:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
This fucking idiot thinks that Ricky's intentions in killing Angela Smith somehow had something to do with peer pressure and conformity.
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/26/the-ricky-i-knew/
(reply to this comment)
| from Nancy
Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 11:13
 (Agree/Disagree?)
If you look beyond what we are saying and just compare how we speak to how our peers who remained in the cult speak, some of them our own siblings, you can clearly see a difference. Even between siblings, there is a difference. It seems the cult has managed to hold onto all the slow moving, easily persuaded, followers in life.
I could have predicted who would make it out and who would stay 15 years ago, not based on what we thought alone, but rather based more on how we thought. Every last one of the independent, free thinking individuals my age that I knew have made it out. But all the sheep, in the real meaning of the word, stayed, even among families where another sibling left.
It's dumbfounding how even the manipulative leaders of this cult don't realize that in compiling a website like myconclusion.com with the writing and statements of their own cult-raised children they prove the point that they are an isolated, uneducated, detached, antisocial, delusional cult breeding dangerous ideas in a classic abusive environment.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Nancy
Friday, March 10, 2006 - 09:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah, really. That site is a better deterent to the cult than this one. Just read from their own mouths how uneducated, short-sighted, sheltered, illogical, delusional and chaulked full of behavior disorders they are.
(reply to this comment)
|  From Lizzie
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 13:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
Go ahed, read from our own mouths how we feel. You can make fun of all the people you want but that just shows that you're already behind them.
Don't you guys ever think how stupid, to say the very least, you sound. I can sea why Family members are counseled not to go on these sites. This stuff stinks, no, it kills. You ppl have just received the reward for biggest lairs and poorest imagination. Have fun! I hope one day you'll actually try and look at things objectivly and stop acting like a bunch a little kids.
Don't care if you don't like it but I will pray for you. Laugh if you like but prayer has done greater miracles than that.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Sunday, May 21, 2006, 13:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
It is hard to take my delusion.com seriously, for me, at least. I know someone on there who has lied about abuse.
TF don't like any one having fun (which was always classed as 'foolishness') , they have no sense of humour.
Part of the recovery is to do some of the behaviours that were denied to us as children.
Don't be afraid of having a laugh, you won't drop dead.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From JohnnieWalker
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 17:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Lizzie, what you said reminds me of a line from the movie "Pollyanna":
"When you look for the bad, you'll always be sure to find it."
Family members are told that the ex-members who visit this site are acting like kids, stuck in the past, liars, imagining things, etc. (I'm sure I've missed some, but you get the gist). Thus, when Family members visit this site, that is what they see.
They somehow manage to see immaturity and negativity in every comment and article and completely miss the point of what is being said--even if it is presented in a mature, rational manner.
If it's any comfort to you, I used to do the same thing when I was in The Family. As far as I was concerned, all ex-members were full of shit and I was justified in calling them liars. But I've grown up since then. I've learned that it's not about who's right, it's about what's right--regardless of how it's presented or what my opinions are on the matter.
So I'd challenge you to look around this site from the perspective of us being your brothers, sisters and peers, and you trying to understand why we feel the way we do, without any preconceived ideas.
That's what being objective is all about.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Big Sister
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 14:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Lizzie, I agree that some folks here do act like little kids. I personally don't think they act like little kids all the time. After all, most everyone here has to work a job and many work, go to school and maybe also are parents too. They are responsible adults and I don't begrudge them a little goofiness.
My question for you is: why it is, do you think, that ppl would come to moving on to tell lies and look at things subjectively (or whatever you think is the opposite of your desired objectivity)? What do you believe is the motivation for people here to lie?
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from exister
Friday, March 10, 2006 - 06:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
We should also have a nomination category for poor facial hair grooming choices. Half the guys on myconfusion.com look like a three way cross between Prince (the singer), a Saudi prince and an Oakland street pimp.
Cases in point:
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/25/vas-myers-speaks-out/
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/26/can-you-hear-me/
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/30/ezra-mara-speaks-out/
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/02/01/david-van-nynatten-speaks-out/
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/02/02/i-also-grew-up-in-world-services/
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/02/17/obvious-evidence/
Gillete anyone?
(reply to this comment)
| From
Sunday, May 21, 2006, 13:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
'My wife and I were talking the other day about how nice it is to be able to travel anywhere in the world and any Family home you stay in you can sleep well knowing that nothing bad will happen to you or your children.' VAS
Hasn't learnt a damn thing--YOU CAN'T trust somebody just because they are a christian-even more so if they believe a pervert like Berg and live to emulate him and his twisted law of love.
Proper parents gard they're children at all times possible.
Tell a child it is done in love , it makes no difference-it is far from love.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From AndyH
Saturday, May 20, 2006, 19:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
The snaggletooth really blends well with ten gallon hat for the dumb redneck look. So they are letting him call himself Vas again huh? Last time I saw him it was David S or some other letter, it was a big taboo to call him Vas, he must have been undergoing a spiritual change or some crap. I always thought he was a really cool cat, what a shame. (reply to this comment) |
| | from Someone who knows
Friday, March 04, 2005 - 13:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
This one's great, I have enough dirt on her to put her behind bars for abuse.. The name's Crystal, was married to Michael and a regular in the Traumatic testimonies. Used to suck off the teen boys.
Abuse—Yes, I was Definitely Abused!
Kathy Farrell – an older person speaking out in Africa!
(First-generation member of the Family International.)
Abuse, I’ll tell you what abuse is, it’s being in an environment that’s filled with fear and insecurity, and screaming fighting parents, abuse is psychologically messing up your kids head, abuse is vulgar profanities being directed at you on a daily basis, abuse is being spit on, abuse is being shaken and slapped half-silly, abuse is multiple rapes, abuse is being continually beaten down and humiliated. Yup that’s abuse and I was abused let me tell you, but fortunately that’s past tense!
So you can imagine what a welcome relief it was for me to meet and come to live in one of our loving Family homes, where peace, love and security surrounds me like a big bubble of God’s love. And this is what I’ve longed for my whole life, after being abused for years by many in the world who didn’t really give a damn about me, so believe me I know what I’m talking about!
In the Family International I’ve been showered with unconditional love none stop, 24/7. I’ve been listened to for hours on end by loving people who cared for my soul. I’ve been tenderly handled which resulted in a healing from my nervous disorders from abuse. I was prayed for and delivered from alcoholism and drugs. I’ve gained my life back which I was trying to get rid of by attempting suicide because my heart hurt so greatly from the abusive situations that surrounded me! And up until I met the Family I was a lost, lonely, hurting, messed up chick, so don’t tell me there are abusers in this group, forgive me but you’re definitely not talking about the same people I live with.
Yup, granted we’ve made our share of mistakes, and we’re not trying to appear to be “lily white” or perfect by no means. Yet an organization like ours who caters to the lowly, heartbroken and confused world would by default pick up some who would make mistakes, don’t you think? And who doesn’t make mistakes. Our Family’s roots started with a bunch of “kids” who were fresh off the streets, many forsaking drugs, and hippies searching for real meaning in life, and we found peace and happiness in Jesus and our loving homes in the Family. It would make sense that we’d come up with some lacks, and big blunders at times, but I don’t believe anyone who really loves Jesus like we do would intentionally hurt another, especially our precious children. So why are you trying to make our loving Family look so sick and repulsive? We’re living a taste of the Garden of Eden in our hearts in our Family homes, and that’s what we want to give to others who are half out of their minds with sadness, hurt, and confusion, so if that’s abusive behavior I’ll eat my hat!
Frankly speaking it just breaks my heart and dumbfounds me that people would take so much of their precious life to get into slinging slop; it’s just not a fun or healthy exercise and a waste of time. If they’d taken more time to love their brothers the tragedy that happened with Ricky and dear Angela might not have happened. I believe it is the same people talking against my Family that are in fact the abusers, they certainly are abusing me with their tongue, and doesn’t it say in the Bible to “love your neighbor as yourself.” They might want to dust off their Bibles and see what exactly that means. Those negative voices don’t sound so loving to me. So to end this little discourse I’d like to say for the record, I’m very happy, I’ve been serving Jesus for 29 years and I wouldn’t be able to find another place on this planet that has so much love, care and kindness, without abuse as the Family homes do. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! And leave my ever-loving Family alone! Or I might think of some abusive words to share with you, yet the Lord of Christ constrains me, and I forgive you for your hopefully temporal state of delusion. 2nd Thessalonians 2:11, 12
Kathy Farrell is a first-generation member of The Family International
(reply to this comment)
| From
Friday, March 04, 2005, 23:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
We’re living a taste of the Garden of Eden if that’s abusive behavior I’ll eat my hat! Frankly speaking it just breaks my heart and dumbfounds me if that’s abusive behavior I’ll eat my hat! I might think of some abusive words to share with you if that’s abusive behavior I’ll eat my hat! I forgive you for your hopefully temporal state of delusion if that’s abusive behavior I’ll eat my hat! Abuse, I’ll tell you what abuse is, if that’s abusive behavior I’ll eat my hat!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Nick
Friday, March 04, 2005, 13:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
Kathy Farrell says
"Abuse, I’ll tell you what abuse is, it’s being in an environment that’s filled with fear and insecurity, and screaming fighting parents, abuse is psychologically messing up your kids head, abuse is vulgar profanities being directed at you on a daily basis, abuse is being spit on, abuse is being shaken and slapped half-silly, abuse is multiple rapes, abuse is being continually beaten down and humiliated. Yup that’s abuse and I was abused let me tell you, but fortunately that’s past tense!"
Funny, that sounds like the victor home I spent a year in and probably most of the normal family homes. So typical of them to try and say that everyone on the outside of the cult lives a miserable and unhappy life filled with violence and hatred. Couldn't be further from the truth. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From ErikMagnusLehnsher
Saturday, March 05, 2005, 07:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
I am assuming, based on the name, that such a syndrome could be used describe someone who is abused and then proceeds to abuse those under their authority. Part of me would hope that someone who was abused would have less tolerance for abuse and take a stronger stand against it but it obviously didn't work like that in Macau.
I googled it but came up with a majority of hits regarding "Battered womens syndrome". Do you have any links to more information about this syndrome?
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from Brownies? wtf?
Friday, March 04, 2005 - 09:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
This one's unbelieveable...I love the part about the lists glued to his wall, one of "hobbies", the other, his "spirit helpers"...all 19 of them, all have TALKED with him. Dude, if you're smelling brownies that aren't there, and talking to 19 people in your head...that's the time to get some professional help. Good luck with that.
3/4/2005
I smell brownies
Emerset Farquharson, 16, Male, Brazil
(Second-generation member of the Family International)
I can smell brownies. Nice thick chocolate brownies. In the back of my mind I can smell them. I’m hungry for them too. I’d love to have a nice slice right now. A fat tasty chunk of it right now. You know what? There’s no brownies here. I imagine smelling them though. But I’m still hungry—hungry for brownies.
You know what I have beside my bed? Papers glued to the wall. One of them, has a list of hobbies that I’ve started, but never finished. Another paper, the one to the very left has a list of my spirit helpers. I have 19. That’s a big number. You know what? I talked to them. I got them. I made the list. I’m happy living this life, happy as hell. And you know what? I have other friends that are really happy living this life too.
If you really really hate somebody, you’re never gonna like them. If you really really really really really hate us, well then goodbye, why try to convince you? We’ll keep on fighting.
Even though I really want brownies, there’s still none for me. I’ll have to realize that. We’re gonna rock on, and we’re not being abused, and we love this life. I do. You might just hate us, but we’ll still rock on. Too bad you’ll have to wake up, or you could live on dreaming.
There are no brownies though. We’re not being brainwashed. And we will fight on. Smell’em all you like, but this is my life, and our life. I’m not one for giving up.
Living, sharing all things, sharing happines, sharing smiles, hugging, living for others—with all the trials and all the downfalls is still the best thing in the world. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
That’s it. Rock on dear Family.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From Oddman
Saturday, March 05, 2005, 14:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
(Quote: Emerset speaking)If you really really hate somebody, you’re never gonna like them. If you really really really really really hate us, well then goodbye, why try to convince you? We’ll keep on fighting. (end of quote from Emerset)
And they used to tell me the education level in TF was much higher than out. Higher than out where? Some Xhosa speaking botswanean mud-hut commune? Some herding village on the border of DRC and Sudan? Literacy level maybe.... Out of touch with reality level? definitely!(reply to this comment) |
| | From roughneck
Saturday, March 05, 2005, 09:29
(Agree/Disagree?)
Mister Farquharson: I'm sure it's been pointed out before, (though perhaps not to you), but you're much too young a pup to teach us "older kids" to suck eggs, OK? You were born in what, '88? '89? What I'm saying is: you know next to nothing about what the majority of participants of this site are speaking of. Kindly shut up with the "we're not being abused" claptrap already. We already know that you more than likely didn't experience the worst that the Family had to offer, please stop talking as if your experiences are representative of the way the Family was before you were born. Please also bear in mind the fact that your definition of abuse is about as narrow as can be. For you folks it's all about apparent motivation and nothing else. Allow me to clue you in: abuses committed "in love" are just as abusive as those committed for any other reason.
But you are absolutely correct: you're not *being* brainwashed, that deed was accomplished long ago, starting with your induction into whatever "YC group" you were in. You don't need any more brainwashing, you're already convinced! You will "fight on", but only because people you misplacedly trust have told you that it's worthwhile. It's sad, really, that one day you're going to leave the Family and find out for yourself that what us "bitter, vitriolic, apostate ex-members" are saying is perfectly true: The Family is a madhouse run by it's inmates. If that's worth laying down your life for, you may include me out.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Harikari Voodoo Vandari
Saturday, March 05, 2005, 13:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
Let us cut this young boy some slack. Very likely, he is a very unattractive boy, who nowadays only has sex with jesus. There are possibly two girls in his age group, one is his half sister, the other one is pretty, not related to him, but f*cks two other guys in the home. His highlight of the week probably consists of tofu cakes, power of the keys time, and watching Pollyana. If he was a shiner, he might even get a double feature, so he could watch the Little Princess. As far as his limited knowledge of the real world goes, Southpark might be a good place for get-out. He probably is the eldest child in his family now, since the older three have all backslid, and become vulgar apostates, possessed by Vandari. In this situation, his best option is to imagine brownies and friends. He does have 19 spirit helpers tho! That's fact. One brunette with big tits, one with small, one Latin, one asian, one blonde with huge hooters, one african, one indian...... So on.. It's pretty embarrasing to be wanking off while daydreeaming.. But not if he his having a wonderful connection with a spirit helper.. Yah, he's happy...(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from boondocksaint
Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 09:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
My Dice’s Hue
Name: Chad Desruisseaux
Age: 23 years old
Location: Mexico
"I am not here to dazzle you with trifles of logic previously unconsidered, but to bolster the members who have previously spoken......Your complaining is undermining those who truly suffer abuse, by putting yourself on par with them. Your claims of mistreatment and the vengeance that should be delivered makes those who went through far worse, but got over it, a vain statement."
I guess that for the Family logic is obviously trifling, I mean hey it's bad to be analytical, right? Of course as soon as someone said what he starts out with you can just throw that "conclusion" in the trash. And how is the abuse not on par with other people who were abused? Sure, we weren't hacked to pieces with machetes, but then again, I think you could make an argument that what some of us went through was worse or on par with what happened to the kids that were abused by Catholic priests. We were were sent to victor camps, subject to exorcisms for being hungry and "snitching" or "daydreaming" during cult lectures, sex and phy abuse, and the list goes on.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from OMG, Someone's MET MAMA!!!
Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 00:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
2/2/2005
An Opinion from Someone who Met Mama Maria
From Sharon Farrell, 15 years old, Guatemala
I would like to take the chance to express myself about some of the bitter accusations made against us by our apostates and detractors. Personally, I don’t even know how they find time to constantly be slandering the Family and everything else, in my opinion they should live their lives, and let us live ours. Even if they were abused or brainwashed or molested or whatever else they claim happened to them.
I have personally NEVER been abused, brainwashed or molested or whatever else they claim happened to them. Do they really think that we would want to keep on being in the Family if those kinds of things were really happening to us?
I feel that I have a one in-a-million chance of the privilege to be in our wonderful Family. I also feel that I’m getting the best education I possibly could, not only in scholastics, but also in vocational training. I am currently learning: violin, guitar, childcare, cooking, singing, dancing, and other performing arts such as clowning. I’ve lived in many different places including Guatemala, where I am right now living and working as a missionary.
Another topic I would like to address is the Ricky & Angela issue. When I first heard what happened, my first reaction was to cry. I had the privilege of meeting Mama Maria a few months ago and I just could not believe or understand how someone that was as close to Mama Maria as her son Ricky, could ever do such a thing or say the things he said about his mother.
Mama Maria is the perfect example of a true follower of the teachings of Jesus. She is sweet, loving, kind, caring and so much more. Everything that she says and does reflects Jesus and what each of us strives to be like in the Family. She is so full of love that its almost like it pours out of her when she is around you.
But, then again what happened with Ricky just proves what the Bible has said all along. The Devil will have more and more power during the end time, and that the spiritual warfare is SO real! We are seeing it manifested before our very eyes. How can we not want to be in the Family and to try to spread His Word like it tells us to in the Bible? We have to do it, if we don’t then who will? I truly believe that the Family is the most wonderful place in the World, and in the Family we are enabled to do what the Lord has told us to do, and to hell with anyone who tries to stand in our way!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | From moon beam
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 10:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
I do not CLAIM to be abused, I WAS, and have been speaking out about it in the search for justice and to put the criminal minds and pedophile perps, responsible for my abuse, behind bars. Simple enough for ya?
I have met people in the "system" who were never subjected to the abuse I went through and they have more empathy and understanding of it then you. Doesn't that tell you something?
How dare you minimize what I went through. this speaks more of you then you think.
It's quite difficult having this type of converstation;
Me "I was abused!"
Zerby's clone; "I was never abused"
Me; "No I said I was abused, ME"
Zerby's clone; "god damn it ,I was never abused you shit( almost poping a vein), we stopped in 86"
Me "Well, I was abused after before 86, in 86 and after 86 and know others were too"
Zerby's clone: " I was never abused you vitriolic, devil poscessed, bitter vocal apostate!! (gurn- foaming at the mouth)
I've been speaking out for 16 yrs and have come up on this situation constantly. It doesn't wash with me and it is exactly what I expect from current members.
I have a friend who left 7 mths ago and she states that it was still going on, the atmosphere and attitude in place when it happened to me is still in place now on many levels.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From ack
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 09:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
" I also feel that I’m getting the best education I possibly could, not only in scholastics, but also in vocational training. I am currently learning: violin, guitar, childcare, cooking, singing, dancing, and other performing arts such as clowning"
Ever read Plato's The Republic? Probably not. She would if she was in High school. Then again maybe not. I agree with one thing, she's probably IS getting the best education possible, after all she lives in Guatemala! People there see Mexico the way Mexicans see America.
Her clowning training is comming along just fine though, she sure got a laugh out of me.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Cosmicblip
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 09:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, she is just about right with the math on that though, one in a million.
"Do they really think that we would want to keep on being in the Family if those kinds of things were really happening to us?" You only have to watch the Jerry Springer Show, or any other talk show, to know that very often the abused person doesn't know when to leave. They even make excuses for the abuser: I deserved it; I made him/her do it; It's my fault.
Also, if the family training that they get, and indeed we all got, is so great then piling a regular/real education on top of that really can't hurt. Can it? To me, this suggests that I'm STILL superior. I learned how to play three chords on a guitar, make microwave-able cakes, severely discipline children, put my arms around my neighbor and sing with my eyes closed, dance wearing tapered jeans and white high-tops, and other performing arts such as "Gospel Riders," "And He's Gonna Shake" and "Shondo Barondo."
I'm not even going to get into how off base she is with her christianity comments. Current cult belief is hardly recognizable as christianity, except for the mentions of Jebuz & his family.
I, like Ms. Zerby, seem like a nice person. But underneath I'm a heaving tar-pit of Gamorrah. Not to mention that I'm pretty damn mean.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 06:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
"I have personally NEVER been abused, brainwashed or molested or whatever else they claim happened to them. Do they really think that we would want to keep on being in the Family if those kinds of things were really happening to us? "
uhm....isn't the whole point of being brain washed that you don't know that you are? so of course she wouldn't! just wait til she wakes up one day and the with a brain a little less washed..
and are they selective in what they read or do they just choose to ignore?! haven't we said enough times that we believe that the sexual abuse has stopped? it's not that type of abuse we are talking about now....furthermore, i think pretty much everyone on this site has nothing against people living their own lives the way they choose to....what we do want is to bring the guilty to justice...
would be nice if these people could just wake up and stop acting like it never happened at all just because it didn't happen to them!
(reply to this comment) |
| | From banal_commentator
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 05:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Guys, dont use samples from teenagers. 15yr olds can't be held responsible for many of their 'beliefs'. Also, people who are at this age now, grew up in a very different cult where child sex was not directly condoned (you know, cause the devil would attack the cult otherwise, and all). It is interesting however, to hear from current members who are now in their mid to late 20s deny that they were ever abused and how much they love their little cult. Of course they truly believe they were never abused (after all beloved 'Mama' told them so) so its not like their lying; just highly brainwashed. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From thinker711
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 10:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Part of it is that they are brainwashed, and part of it is their twisted definition of abuse. To them (due to their brainwashing), abuse and the Law of Love are mutually exclusive. In reality, however, Berg's Law of Love was abusive. "Abuse" in the Family's mind occurs when a child is molested and it is not "done in love" (e.g., the kid is crying, screaming, etc.). If the molestation was done in a “loving” manner, then it was not abuse. This policy, then gives license to any pervert since being “loving” is subjective. Claire Borowitch's claim on national TV that Ricky was never abused accentuates this point. This is why the Family claims that child abuse only occurred in isolated instances. This is also why current SGAs adamantly deny they were ever abused. (reply to this comment) |
| | From banal_commentator
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 11:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well duh, they are brainwashed cause they dont even know what abuse is, they know nothing else, and were never told it was wrong. Hopefully, these kids will eventually free themselves from the cults clutches and if/when they do, they will have years of conditioning to overcome.
I know of some people who have left the cult, but the cult hasnt left them, because they are still in denial of just how disgusting The Family is. They have an apathetic attitude toward the cult and tell themselves that they were never hurt by abuse, neglect or whatever else. They convince themselves, on some level, that they had a normal childhood because they weren't fondled or beaten (this makes everything OK :P). Ironically, these people seem to be the most ashamed of their upbringing and would never talk about it with a non-excultie. Perhaps it is easier to live in a safe bubble, and not admit the cults influence and not discuss your past and pretend like it had no effect on you (hey, Freud never said denial was a bad thing, only that it cant last for long). I for one, however, dont want a single thought in my head to be a product of the cults conditioning. (reply to this comment) |
| | From banal_commentator
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 11:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well duh, they are brainwashed cause they dont even know what abuse is, they know nothing else, and were never told it was wrong. Hopefully, these kids will eventually free themselves from the cults clutches and if/when they do, they will have years of conditioning to overcome.
I know of some people who have left the cult, but the cult hasnt left them, because they are still in denial of just how disgusting The Family is. They have an apathetic attitude toward the cult and tell themselves that they were never hurt by abuse, neglect or whatever else. They convince themselves, on some level, that they had a normal childhood because they weren't fondled or beaten (this makes everything OK :P). Ironically, these people seem to be the most ashamed of their upbringing and would never talk about it with a non-excultie. Perhaps it is easier to live in a safe bubble, and not admit the cults influence and not discuss your past and pretend like it had no effect on you (hey, Freud never said denial was a bad thing, only that it cant last for long). I for one, however, dont want a single thought in my head to be a product of the cults conditioning. (reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 11:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
Please let's not get on the subject of brainwashing. If it was really that effective then I wouldn't have left The Family, because I was about as "true blue" as it gets.
They're not brainwashed. They've made a choice about what they believe, and with that choice comes the feeling of obligation to support and defend their selected belief and reject anything that suggests the contrary. Whether that choice was an informed or uninformed one, is not really rellevant to them.
It is only when the fervor with which the choice was made breaks down of one's own free will (through encountering undeniable facts or "doubts", to use the Family term) that one begins to accept the plausibility of other beliefs and opinions.
This breakdown does not have to lead to giving up ones chosen beliefs (i.e. backsliding), but it certainly makes one less closed-minded and more capable of rational thought.
My hat's off to those SGAs still in The Family (you know who you are) who have kept an open mind and have been willing to listen to what some of us "bitter apostates" have to say.(reply to this comment) |
| | From banal_commentator
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 11:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
Whether remaining in a cult because you have a brainwashed mind, or continuing to have a brainwashed mind because of your 'choice' to remain in a cult, is somewhat irrelevant.
'SGAs' that remain in the cult, do so because the cult still offers some weird level of reward or success for them; and in their brainwashed minds, this 'success' is enough. Perhaps they are afraid that if they leave, success will be measured on a different scale, one whose numbers wont treat them so kindly. They must continue then, to defend the cult and the value of their "rewards" or else they will have to face the harsh, vast world, where they will be but one of the masses.
Having said that, my parents are truly and completely brainwashed beyond reform. (reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 12:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
I see what you're trying to say, but I don't think it's a matter of being "afraid that if they leave, success will be measured on a different scale".
When I was in the Family, I was convinced that with my skills (of which I had acquired many more than your average Family member) I could make it in "the System" on any level if I wanted to. I know now how foolish and naive that opinion was, but I completely believed it back then.
My opinion on what keeps a person loyal to their chosen belief is the desire to be right. The person relishes the idea of them being on good side of their polarized 'good vs. bad' view. They have the answers to all questions and that makes them feel good.
If this person is afraid of anything, it is of being wrong. This is why, when faced with evidence contrary to their belief, they will chose to ignore it, or attempt to discredit it.
Perhaps their subconscious knows that their faith cannot withstand the fires of doubt and that is why the person would rather ignore or discredit opposition than face it.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 12:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
The encyclopedia defines brainwashing as coming from the chinese phrase "thought reform".
"A method of forcing people to change their beleifs and accept as true what they previously had considered false."
A victim of intense propaganda, mind-control techniquues, physical abuse and a coercive enviroment.
Most victims return to their original beliefs when they return to their own enviroment.
My mother went through this same scenario as well as a friends son. Who had a complete personality change.
There must be an initual voluntary suspension off will, we do this when we watch a film, but for adults it only remains in that 2 hr period. The exdperience of the film is down to the story, special effects, the quality of the acting, the meaning it holds with the viewer.
With a cult member, he will stay in that state, it becomes his reality which is enforced and aided by the leader and peers.
In some cases if it doesn't happen effortlessly, one will struggle to brainwash himself. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Jaded
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 12:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
interesting view point from Rick Ross, head of the 'Rick Ross Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Movements' a "cult expert" and deprogrammer.
DOOR: "How would you define a cult?"
ROSS: "Any group of people that are intensely devoted to a person, place or thing could be seen as a cult following. The question really is what defines a destructive cult. There are many groups that might be generally called cults, such as the Amish, Elvis fans, or Trekkies. But these groups are benign and may actually even be beneficial to the people involved. Trekkies have a good time at conventions. Elvis fans also have a certain camaraderie. The Amish are a peaceful, productive society.
When most people use the term "cult," they mean a destructive cult. A destructive cult first and foremost can be defined as a group that has an absolute totalitarian leader and that is essentially personality-driven. Regardless of what they quote, whether it's the Bible, Freud, or Marx, what they really are about is the leader. Their leader is the focus of power within the group and defines it. He or she dictates virtually anything and everything, without any meaningful boundaries.
Second, you have an ongoing dynamic or process in the group that could be referred to as "thought reform", commonly called "brainwashing". People systematically are robbed of their ability to critically think or make independent choices. Ultimately, they essentially become dependent upon the leader to make value judgements and do their thinking for them, or through the leader's delegated counterparts. Members no longer are really thinking for themselves.
Third, the group is destructive. It hurts people. This can be seen through abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, labor exploitation, psychological and emotional trauma. A pattern of destructive behavior emerges. Not all destructive cults are the same. With some groups, certain facets of these three criteria may be expressed more strongly than in others."
The complete article is here: http://www.rickross.com/reference/about/about8.html
Here is one of the most comprehensive collection of articles on brainwashing: http://www.rickross.com/brainwashing.html
With a huge amount of info throughout the site: http://www.rickross.com(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Big Sister
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 17:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
And you haven't met my sister, either. She's a FGA who joined at age 19. She also has a learning disability that makes understanding facial expressions and subtle human communication difficult for her. Sounds minor and my parents thought so, but she is very easily manipulated or tricked. Even as a child it was clear that something was wrong. Now she is definitely brainwashed and I am angry at the cult leaders who have taken full advantage of her maleability. My sister is an adult and therefore responsible for her actions but she is also a victim of the cult who knows how to exploit people who can work hard but can't challenge their BS.
I think if you look carefully you would find that many FGAs had personal problems that stretch way back into their childhoods and resulted in them being vulnerable when they joined the cult. (reply to this comment) |
| | From thinker711
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 15:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think FGAs joined the family, remained in the family, and left the family (if at all) for different reasons. That is why it is difficult to use a broad brush to describe them all as "brainwashed." However, I think brainwashing was certainly a part of it, and individuals were brainwashed at different levels, some more than others. Some really believed in all the family doctrines, while others felt some ambivalence and would try to fight "doubts." (reply to this comment) |
| | from Another one that got through Quality Control
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 23:44
(Agree/Disagree?)
2/8/2005
Why do you want to take my swing?
From Marie-Ange Mignot, 19 years old
I have always loved swings. My earliest playground memories are of my Dad pushing me on a swing. This was before I discovered the fine art of pushing your legs out then tucking them back in. Once I had that down, I went higher, much higher.
My name is Marie-Ange Mignot. I was born in a dandy clinic in New Delhi, India at approximately 5:20 p.m., April 3rd, 1986. I say approximately as the Indian doctors forgot to note the time of delivery on my birth certificate. I will never get over this stigma. My name is derived from a song that reached a certain height of popularity in The Family International at the time of my birth, namely: “On wings of love, came my angel Mariangela…”
Yes, I am still traumatized by this.
At 18 months I contracted double pneumonia and nearly died. I believe it is only by the grace of God that I am still alive. When I was two, my mother was sent back to Switzerland. My father didn’t come till a year later. When I was five, my parents were separated, my mom being sent TS (Trf Supporter, a circle of membership in the Family International that is now the equivalent of FM or Fellow Member.) along with my two older brothers and youngest sister. I did not see them again till I was eight and a half, three and a half years later.
For the next two years, they would visit for a few days every six months or so. A few days are not enough to get to know someone. When I was ten, I went to live with my mom, exchanging with my second oldest brother Philippe, who moved with my Dad. In August of that year, a month after his birthday, Phil was diagnosed with Terminal Brain Cancer. Four months later, December 24th 1996, Phil was dead. I never really knew my brother.
I spent the next few years in France.
Forced to comply with French schooling laws, I attended secular school from the age of 13 to 17. Majoring in languages and literature, I graduated at 17, a year in advance, obtaining the highest grade of my class in French Literature. A class composed of students whose mother tongue was French.
French, a language I learned to speak when I was ten, to write correctly when I was 13.
I look back at all I have experienced and I can truthfully say: I have had a wonderful life.
Had I gone through the same experiences in the secular world, I can’t guarantee you I’d be here; typing on this computer I managed to borrow from Ange because she’s sleeping. I’d probably be in an institution, guzzling the very latest in anti-depressants or better yet, watching my parents fight over my custody and that of my siblings.
My little sister has cerebral palsy. She shouldn’t walk or talk. She runs and yells at me, telling me “I’m really something nowadays.” She is a living miracle. And she also likes swings. But I have to push her which annoys me just a tad as I’d rather be on the adjacent swing, swaying along with her.
I blame her progress on the loving care and education my mom gave her ever since she was a wee little baby—talents my mom gained through her training and life in the Family International.
I blame my scholastic achievements on the education I received growing up in the Family International, an education I continue to this day as you never stop learning. My eldest brother, a self-taught computer genius who quit school at the age of 16, is going to teach me lay-out. I’m technologically illiterate so please pray for me.
The reason I am telling you my life story which you are probably not in the least interested in, is because I was appalled at what happened to Ricky and Angela, but even more so by the reactions it caused in the apostates of our group, the Family International.
I have a step-brother who I cherish dearly. He left the Family a little over two years now. He does not believe in God and declares himself a humanist; however he respects my decision to not only believe and love God but to remain in the Family International. He does not want to destroy my way of life or kill me. Just because he chose the slide over my preferred swing does not mean I love him any less, or he, me.
We are all different. We all choose different paths, different callings in life. This does not mean we cannot respect each other’s choices.
It hurt me that some would criticize my swing. Did I criticize your slide?
The Family has made mistakes in the past. Like any new movement, they were pioneering a radically new and completely different way of life, a life based on love and serving others. We all make mistakes when we first start learning something. But The Family has apologized for those mistakes and has repaired the glitches, glitches caused by man’s inability to truly love his neighbor as himself and to love God most of all.
I have never considered myself to have been abused. On the contrary, I believe I have lived a wonderful and enviable life up until now and if God grants me leave, I will continue to pursue it, here, as part of the Family International. I believe that nowhere else will I find this feeling of fulfillment and utter ecstasy that loving and sharing God’s love with others brings. A feeling very similar to that obtained at the highest pinnacle of a swing’s upper curve, that point where you forget you’re on a board attached to two chains and convince yourself that you’re actually flying through the sky.
I love my life. It is one I have chosen after much thought and deliberation. I respect the fact that it isn’t a life for everyone which is why I love you and am letting you have the slide.
So please sir, why do you want to take my swing?
Currently residing in the UK, Marie-Ange Mignot is a second generation member of the Family International.
(reply to this comment)
| From repost
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 10:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Instead of blaming TF for your head spinning scholastic achievements, (which this article doesn't show), if I were you I would blame them for the fact that you never really knew your brother.
I'm not sure what TF told you about secular life, but people with ordinary parents don't tend to wind up in these vague "institution" places, and I think you'll notice (if you bother to open your eyes) that there are plenty of custody battles plaguing TF's history. Just in case you weren't aware of it, you are in fact part of an intitution right now. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=institution
As far as the pill guzzling goes, maybe a little bit of that might have helped your brother? I wouldn't presume to know what his treatment entailed, but I'm quite familiar with TF healing practices. Same goes for your little sister. Pills obviously aren't a cure all, but the're a far cry from prayer. Timely surgery and chemiotherapy can sometimes be very effective when dealing with cancer.
Let me ask you a question, what is so wonderful about a lifestyle that impedes you from knowing your brother, denies regular contact with both your parents, causes your brother to be accurately diagnosed barely four months before his death, leaves your pneumonia to be cured by the grace of god, and forces you to cram a whole childhood worth of learning into four years? (Pardon the run on sentence). Not to mention leaving you traumatized at the very mention of your name.
And you mentioned anti-depressants? Are you familiar with the concept of association? Why is that the first thing you allude to? Maybe you're depressed and your subconcious mind is trying to tell you something.
I've also noticed that brain diseases seem to be prevalent in your family. TF is staunchly against stem cell research, which is something that could wind up helping victims of palsy as well as a slew of other maladies.
But maybe I'm wrong in all of this, and your biggest problem is weather or not you get to swing at the same time as your sister. (At the age of nineteen?).(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 11:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think she confuses the "respect" of her xmember brother with indifference to her lifestyle.
I can understand that with her scholastic achievements staying in the family may give an extra ego boost as then she is someone that stands out and is special. In the "system" she would be just another brain. (reply to this comment) |
| | From
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 09:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Did I criticize your swing?" How childish and ignorant.
Everything about the "system" is critizied by TF, you remember don't you? Everything in the system is off the devil bla bla Esp those who have left, otherwise instead of backsliders, bitter evil enemies, detractors, we'd be called, "doing their own thing god lov'em" or "free to choosios" or maybe just "right to decide", maybe you meant to call us that but they just weren't catchy enough. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Shaka
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 00:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
No hun, we don't want to take your swing. We want to get you off the goddamn merry-go-round. You're talking in nonsensical circles like the rest of your peers. The metaphors they use never fail to entertain. It's like they just take random things from everyday life and try to fashion them into something profound.
Reminds me of a joke. A little Indian boy asks his father how Indian children get their names. The father says,
"After a child is born, the brave leaves his wigwam and looks around him. The first thing his eyes fall upon, that is what he names his child after. Just as my father named me Running Deer, and his father named him Flying Eagle. Why do you ask, Two Dogs Fucking?"(reply to this comment) |
| | From Another Tidbit
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 23:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
1/28/2005
Peter Amsterdam’s Son Speaks Out!
Name: Jon-A
Age: 28 years old, born and raised in The Family
Parents: Peter Amsterdam and Abi
I have been greatly disturbed by this pointless loss of life. I knew both Angela and Ricky, and still cannot quite comprehend the needless death that took place. It’s not every day someone you knew well was murdered, and rarer still, someone you knew who just four years earlier seemed like a normal individual, change to the point where he’d be willing to take the life of someone as sweet and harmless as Angela. I’m telling you, everyone reading this has done more harm to others through unloving acts than Angela, she was truly an angel.
Writing is not something that comes easy for me or that I enjoy doing, but the wish to have my voice heard overrides that difficulty. I’ve been hearing far too long about the “many” vocal former members, and have seen some of their threatening website postings, so I was thrilled that someone put up a site like this, and even more so by the 200+ young people who have stepped forward so far to contribute with their views and condolences.
I wanted to add my personal story and views on growing up in the Family, “abuse” in the past, and some thoughts on current claims from our detractors.
I would say that my life was not that typical of a young person in the Family. Because of who my parents were, much was expected of me, and as a kid, naturally I resented that fact. I recognize now that it was to be expected. Any child with prominent parents, in any walk of life, has more expected of him than others.
When I was two years old, my dad left to work with David Berg and Maria. I didn’t have much contact with him during my childhood years. My mom lived with me (or close by) for most of my life, but due to her leadership responsibilities, I was mostly cared for and raised by nannies and teachers. I lived in World Service Homes till I was a pre-teen, at which time I moved into big school-type situations. I lived in the Philippines “Jumbo”, the Japan “HCS”, the Macao “Teen Home” and subsequent “DTs”, and the Peru “Enterprise”.
I also went through my share of disciplinary type programs, such as the “Victor programs”—one in Japan and one in Peru. Both of those were typical of the types of programs used by the Family in some parts of the world in those days. In my opinion, these programs were no more harsh then their counterparts in secular society. There was silence restriction, extra labor and some corporal punishment—all to be expected from that type of system. These programs have not been used in the Family for many years—most likely for good reasons. However, considering that disciplinary boot-camp type programs are still actively used throughout the secular and Christian world today, I fail to see how one could be so up in arms about their previous use in the Family.
Sure, some of you may have been in a program like this yourself, but that was a long time ago. I’m sure you’ve “moved on”. I mean really, who can’t take a little silence restriction? Almost everyone’s been spanked, and had to work. You’ll live. I promise. Since these programs are no longer in use in the Family, if based on your experience, you feel it was terribly harmful, why not go and “rescue” the many young people currently in similar programs in secular society? Naturally, no participants especially like these types of intensive boot-camp programs, but it’s a disciplinary style used by some parents for difficult young people. The effectiveness of programs such as these can be debated on either side, but in the end, it’s the parents’, not the young peoples’, decision.
The one program I was in that I would consider excessive by way of corporal punishment and hard labor, was the DT (detention teen) program in Macao during the late 80s. There were under ten young people admitted to that program, so its use was certainly not widespread, nor was this program duplicated elsewhere. I know for a fact that half of the participants are still in the Family, and the other half have left. Those who were negatively affected by this program, I personally feel sorry for. I don’t think some of the things that went on were justified or necessary, and I consider it a failed experiment at best. It’s something I feel was unfortunate, but I lived through it, and I’ve put it behind me. And most importantly, I forgave those who I feel wronged me.[...](reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From ack
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 12:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
"I’m telling you, everyone reading this has done more harm to others through unloving acts than Angela" - He would know this for a fact!
"There was silence restriction, extra labor and some corporal punishment—all to be expected from that type of system. These programs have not been used in the Family for many years—most likely for good reasons. However, considering that disciplinary boot-camp type programs are still actively used throughout the secular and Christian world today, I fail to see how one could be so up in arms about their previous use in the Family." - So what's next, the electric chair? Lethal injection? These punishments are still widely used but does not give a religious order the right to employ them. Likewise any other tactic used by any government agency.
" I mean really, who can’t take a little silence restriction? Almost everyone’s been spanked, and had to work. You’ll live. I promise. Since these programs are no longer in use in the Family, if based on your experience, you feel it was terribly harmful, why not go and “rescue” the many young people currently in similar programs in secular society? Naturally, no participants especially like these types of intensive boot-camp programs, but it’s a disciplinary style used by some parents for difficult young people." - The reason is clear, the people we intend to rescue are our siblings not some random strangers. Secondly, these methods you mention are mostly employed in the cases of teenagers who are criminals, young people selling drugs, fifteen year old prostitutes, thugs, gang members and such. None of which any family children who were subjected to these "corrective" methods were guilty of.
"The effectiveness of programs such as these can be debated on either side, but in the end, it’s the parents’, not the young peoples’, decision"- and their resposibility as well, now it's time to account for it.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From roughneck
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 07:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
There is so much wrong with this article I don't know where to start. I guess I'll have to just hit the most obvious ones. :)
"In my opinion, these programs were no more harsh then their counterparts in secular society.". OK, your ridiculous little opinion has been noted. Here in the real world, only the most vicious criminals experience treatment comparable to what the average Victor much less DT went through. Say, what were your high crimes and misdemeanors that you received this punishment for? Spiritual Pride? Unwillingness to sleep with your grandfather? Do tell!
"Almost everyone’s been spanked, and had to work." Uh huh, what century are you in? 1800? Yeah sure, almost everyone has to work out here in "the system" but in modern countries compelling minors to work in order to support their parents is *ILLEGAL*. Particularly if this work is in lieu of an education. Most kids don't have the equivalent of a full-time, unpaid job at the age of 11 or 12. Sorry buck-o, you're wrong again.
"I don’t think some of the things that went on were justified or necessary, and I consider it a failed experiment at best." In other words: By virtue of being born into The Family International I (undersigned) consent to be a guinea pig in any and all "experiments" that leadership deem necessary. Funny, 'cause I don't remember ever signing that one. :)
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From The Definition of "Irony"
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 00:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Abuse – Yes, I was Definitely Abused!
Kathy Farrell – an older person speaking out in Africa!
Abuse, I’ll tell you what abuse is, it’s being in an environment that’s filled with fear and insecurity, and screaming fighting parents, abuse is psychologically messing up your kids head, abuse is vulgar profanities being directed at you on a daily basis, abuse is being spit on, abuse is being shaken and slapped half-silly, abuse is multiple rapes, abuse is being continually beaten down and humiliated. Yup that’s abuse and I was abused let me tell you, but fortunately that’s past tense!
So you can imagine what a welcome relief it was for me to meet and come to live in one of our loving Family homes, where peace, love and security surrounds me like a big bubble of God’s love. And this is what I’ve longed for my whole life, after being abused for years by many in the world who didn’t really give a damn about me, so believe me I know what I’m talking about[...]"(reply to this comment) |
| | From
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 08:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh you've got to be kidding me. I lived in constant insecerity, not knowing where my parents were at times, moving every 3 to 6 mths, new home-new faces, never being able to make a stable friendship, keeping in touch with friends were hard for SALAH reasons.
Fear? Well fear of going to a new home and who would be the next pedophile waiting to pounce. Which auntie liked carrying a fly-swatter as a wand. What new rules wouldn't I know about.( Once my 5 yr old rother was dragged from the table whilst eating an apple and beaten so harshly that even I was in tears, the crime? He'd left the skin on. This was because a new Mo letter had come out saying we could eat the apples-skin and all-if we had the faith for it) But this creep hadn't read the new letter.
Fear of the lord, fear of the Devil, ferar of the system, fear that the anti-christ soilders would come to the door, not to mention all that heavens girl crap. I was terified of ever puting a foot out of line. All by the time I was 6-good going you loving saints.
Not being able to laugh too loud, cry (unless I was confessing my "sins") talk about my feelings or emotions, be seen to be sad. (out of the sprit) Yes you tried your best to psycologicaly mess me up, hearing my mom cry for the loss of her daughter, who she was told belonged to the group, not even a phone call.
Seeing her cry when she had to go out and FF for funds, when my Step-dad would shout, sream and beat her up for being "selfish" , for having to sleep with some one you didn't like, having your husand sleep with all the young girls.
I was spat on, knuckled on the head, raped, woken up in the night with a belting, humiliated at every turn, when I had an illness it was my fault, told I was nothing if I didn't do what "the lord wanted" forced to preform felatio on old men, who would then write me love letters, and to see the torment on my mothers face, as she had thought he liked her.
In a group that teaches "gods love" as beening completely submisive to their interpretation of it (no jealousy, no pride, no selfworth, no dignity, no debating, no questioning) and when that person doesn't feel it, you have gone seriously wrong.
We are not taking about you here and your messed up interpretation of love. We are talking about the results of that "love" and how it negatively impacted my generation. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from MyDelusion
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 17:08
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I have had mixed emotions about this whole situation, ranging from total shock and total sadness and somewhere in between there has also been, (due to my human nature) a fair bit of anger. Not anger directed at any one individual, but at the course of events, uncontrolled rhetoric and negative attitudes that have led up to this terrible tragedy. I have also had my times of questioning why and how something this terrible can happen. It just goes to show how your thoughts are real things and as the old saying goes “you are what you read” well– you are also what you think and say. “As a man thinks in his heart so is he” and “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks”. (Matthew 12:34b) All of you who had anything to do with fueling Ricky’s bitterness, condoning his attitudes and sympathizing with him, have taken part in his crime and had a grip on his knife.
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/23/tim-forsberg-speaks-out/#more-106
(reply to this comment)
| From xolox
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 19:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh? His human nature now. Something we wouldn't know about, after all we "have taken part in his [Rickys] crime and had a grip on his knife."
I'm sure that he has never flung an unfounded accusation, ever. I mean how could he? After all he despises "uncontrolled rhetoric and negative attitudes", which a statement like that in no way portrays! At all.
"All of you who had anything to do with fueling Ricky’s bitterness, condoning his attitudes and sympathizing with him, have taken part in his crime and had a grip on his knife." As far as the bitterness goes, Zerby has something to answer for. As for the rest of it, I never met the guy but I sympathize with his plight, and understand his attitude. OH SHIT! I guess I must have just murdered somebody! My bad.
(reply to this comment) |
| | from MyDelusion
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 16:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
2/5/2005
To Daniel Roselle from Vas
Hey Daniel Roselle. Remember me? Vas.
We had a lot of fun together at “Sizzlers” in California, in 93 & 94.
I seem to be remembering a certain song that we recorded together & that you wrote a rap break to. It was just a rough & not an official Family production. And you technically still own the rights to the following lyrics:
Judge Marquevich is gonna get killed
And when he goes to hell he’s gonna get billed
All the wrong he’s done all the bad he’s said
Will not be forgotten when he’s up & dead
God up in heaven is gonna look down below
Saying Marquevich I told you so
When you’re walkin down the street you better watch your back
Cuz I’m the Almighty & I take no flak
You’d better be careful cuz you’re gonna die
Cuz you’re sticking your finger in My eye
You think it’s fun to screw around with God
Well I’m telling you man you’re gonna feel His rod.
This was written, as you well know, during the time when our Family Members in Argentina were getting investigated & jailed. We of course, won every court case, & it was proven that The Family was a safe place to raise children. And you thoroughly believed every word of the above lyrics. We all have a hard time finding ourselves sometimes, & that’s understandable, but if we’re playing hot or cold, it seems like you’re getting colder & colder in finding yourself. I hope you do find yourself because l do love you, I’m still your friend as much now as back then. I’m just sad by what I hear. You & I both know what the truth is!!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | from steam
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 16:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
PS: On the above comment there is an illustration by the guy posting, of Jesus laughing as he steers a train into a little kid on a tricycle. (Supposed to represent ex-members.)And he was shocked at our rhetoric?
(reply to this comment)
| from steam
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 16:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
This was supposed to be for funny "rebutals". However the following is a quote from one which shows the latest tack "The Family" is taking with a new "rebuttals package". I don't know if they even used real quotes, although some people did post some pretty violent and negative post in the days following Ricky's death. I can't say enjoy but it is something to be aware of. Here goes:
"I’ve just recently read the rebuttals package and with it the “moving on violent rhetoric quotes” and it stank to the high heavens. I’ve never really given the devil as much credit before, till I read some of that foul-mouthed stuff. Was all I could do to keep from retching! And to think that they once led lives much the same as mine is what makes it all the more horrible, How someone could turn so violently away from what they know to be the truth is totally beyond me. What comes to mind is a picture of the Orcs or something. Once Elves, the fairest and most beautiful of all creatures that through years of torture and deformation became the hideous beasts they were portrayed as in the Lord of the Rings. When I read some of their postings I could only imagine the spiritual mutilation some of them must have undergone to turn them into such heartless, filthy, black hearted people. I feel a mixture of both disgust and pity….
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/02/07/mark-brown-speaks-out/#more-401
(reply to this comment)
| From Jules
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 17:14
(Agree/Disagree?)
If anyone has these quotes, could they post them? Someone on a Family member's blog posted some supposed quotes from this web site which were blatantly made up. Just to be sure, I opened up the database and did a number of queries on different phrases and could not find anything even close.
These are the bogus "quotes" that have been attributed to us:
"I need to send a message to Zerby: ‘This generation of children is going to destroy you. God forbid anybody else die. But barring that, we are going to destroy your organization. We're going to destroy your group. We're going to destroy your lives'...."
"I'm going to come back and personally destroy the Family if I have to use my teeth."
Use my teeth? What is that all about? One would think with all the colourful language, venting, personal feuds and other trailerparkishness we sometimes engage in they could at least come up with something someone really said. Frankly, at this point nothing surprises me anymore, but this is really a new low for WS. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Frm Fam Rebuttal Pack
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 22:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Moving On posts re: violent rhetoric—threats of violence
From conan
Wednesday, January 12, 2005, 11:56
I don't feel that Ricky's reaction was shocking or even morally wrong. Not a single one of us knows exactly what he went through mentally and as such we shouldn't try and judge is actions. I know there are many people in TF that I have contimplated tracking down and killing. Granted I stopped short becasue of the obvious consequences that would arise but the point is that I'm sure Ricky was so tormented by what that psychotic bitch had done to him as a child in the name of the Lord our saviour and all that bullshit that he did what he felt was necessary to set things right in his own mind. None of us knows for sure but I don't think any ex-member should get too on his case for this, especially since he's dead too.
It is rather amusing though how TF is attempting to twist this to their benefit and make it look like it's other ex-members fault and not a product of Ricky's own thought process. They're so deluded and it's really sad. I hope they're all happy in their oblivion though.
From Plotting
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 22:37
I hope we do see copycat situations.
I'm very sorry that Ricky killed himself, but I am not sorry that he killed Sue first. She deserved it. I hope you all realize that she bears a lot of responsibility for the way we were raised. There are a few others that deserve to die.
From you wish...
Monday, January 10, 2005, 11:29
He should have killed a hell of a lot more before he took his own life...what a waste.
from Baxter
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 04:53
Maybe it's callous to say it, but WTF, if he had to go, he might as well have taken one of the fuckers with him; it's almost too bad he only got one. I know it isn't PC to advocate suicide, but it was his life, and he chose to end it the way he did, and I think we should respect that.
From
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 22:50
I'm sorry Ricky took his own life. I kept hoping that he would find a way to get through it. I know he was contemplating suicide for a long time and he choose to take her down before he went.
Sue got what she had coming, she was a child molester and participated in the organized abuse of our generation. I'm glad he stabbed her instead of just letting her off with one to the head.
I don't care what any of you have to say about some of us being 'psyco', how do you think we got this way? Are we just supposed to leave it to some higher power to avenge us? What about those xers that are too damaged to have a normal life? And yes there are plenty of them.
Do child molesters deserve to live?
From NVC
Wednesday, January 12, 2005, 11:31
Maybe, i don't have enough legal knowledge. but if in any way if any of this could create the possibility of having the equivalent of the British court case here in the US that may be a chance of seeing some justice. rememer the British case was a civil case initiated on a custody battle. here there is a murder suicide that covers what could be one of the most interesting expose' we have ever seen in cult history. is there a way to justice?
From lotstoforget
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 12:19
Boy, Baxter, sounds like "Brawn" is definitely outweighing your "Brain". I can't really refer any serious researcher to this site anymore, because people like you make us all sound like psychos. Like I said below, I'm definitely checking out of here. Want no part in this. Man, you guys are starting to talk killing. Now that says nothing about the cult you came out off, but it says a lot about YOU!!
From thepersoniamnow
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 06:03
Yeah it is terrible but I honestly couldnt give a shit about the fam member/former personal abuser of him. I hope she died knowing why she died
From trial
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 19:13
I think a murder trial with a cult leaders son at the center would have shone a bright media spotlight on the cult and its wonderful history of raising "well adjusted, socialy aware children"
ack
Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 09:12
There's no excuse for murder? think again! There are plenty of excuses for murder, as there are plenty of ways to justify a righteous killing. The one thing he did right was to cross state lines before offing himself, at least it's a federal matter now. Perhaps the Feds will get of their asses? Maybe he's better of anyway. It can't be easy going through life being the literal son of a whore (Kirby's trick), as well as the poster child of those who started this whole mess. Though one wonders why a therapist was not consulted.
Then there's the method. If he owned a gun, and used a knife... I suppose we could say passion was involved. (some anti-depressants have been linked to sudden bursts of violence and rage, as have a plethora of steroids. We'll have to wait for an autopsy for that).
People have gotten reduced and lenient judgements when killing a former abuser. Who can know what goes through the mind of a suicide? If you're alive today, you cannot. Somehow I doubt it was about any court case. I can never know for sure, as anyone else's oppinion is just that. And you know? Oppinions are like assholes, everybody's got one, and they usually stink.
Wow! I think it's going to take me a full ten minutes to get over this one. though I might have to cut it short, I've got other (friends)suicides to think about.
From Baxter
Friday, January 14, 2005, 04:12
Damn right, I am an evil mutha_____, and you'd better pray you never meet me on a dark and dirty night!
I do not nor ever have I felt the need to justify my hatred. It is an integral part of my soul, and to deny it's existence would simply do me more damage. I hate those people, every last one of them. The only thing that separates me from the action that Ricky took is that I would only kill one of them if I figured I could get away with it, or if the risk was worth the result. Spare me your moral condemantion, I really don't give a shit. I don't abide by your moral precepts, I abide by mine.
BUT I HAVE NEVER RAPED, SEXUALLY ABUSED OR TORTURED A CHILD, YOU WACK FUCK!
from lover_of_light
Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 07:30
This whole thing really causes some serious soul searching. I certainly think F. leadership should consider resigning because of past mistakes. Kind of like CEO's of companies do when they or their company blows it real bad. But however evil Maria may or maynot be, I don't think she's anything like as bad as what I've been reading here. Here's are some of the comments about this tragedy that you guys' have posted:
"Sue got what was coming to her and I'm glad for that. "
"…but I am not sorry that he killed Sue first. She deserved it."
"I'm also disgusted by the weak Christian/democratic "need to be punished" which has been hammered not only into us, but into western civilization as well, with the exception of the various mafia subcultures (they're not perfect either, but I won't get into that now)."
"He should have been euphoric after doing the symbolic liberating deed, ready to go forward with life. It would have been a statement of, " You don't scare me anymore, I've grown up, now look who's trembling". Instead, he goes and shoots himself? Why? Because Thou Shalt Not Kill, the bible says, and so does your junior high civics class. In Ricky's case, it was no more wrong to kill than it was to remove an annoying splinter from your thumb."
"Maybe it's callous to say it, but WTF, if he had to go, he might as well have taken one of the fuckers with him; it's almost too bad he only got one"
"Sue got what she had coming, she was a child molester and participated in the organized abuse of our generation. I'm glad he stabbed her instead of just letting her off with one to the head. "
You guys are downright evil. Seems like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From boondocksaint
Thursday, February 10, 2005, 00:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
Conan, Baxter, Nvc, "the person I am now," (you better pray to the lord to not be the person you are now) I am disappointed in all of you. How could you feel violent thoughts? Normally when a child is sent to labor camps, deprived of an education, physically abused, mentally abused, and sexually abused, etc; they only have good will towards those who harmed them. I agree shame on all of you to even consider justice or revenge, how abnormal. (reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 23:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
OK, so here we have a clearly defined list of people The Family considers to be vitriolic and bitter apostates who are intent on destroying them and their way of life:
thepersoniamnow, conan, Baxter, NVC, ack, and a couple nameless others
And the Family is taking this threat seriously? From these guys?
Here I am, doing my best to be a good little bitter, vitriolic apostate and I lose the cherished "Apostate of the Year Award" to this bunch?
I'm going to go find a corner to sulk in. :)
Seriously, though, if those who made these comments are still of the same opinion then I think they will find most of the participants of this site distancing themselves from them. I certainly would.(reply to this comment) |
| | From JohnnieWalker
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 22:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm still not quite ready to insinuate that they made these up, but I just spent the last hour searching for keywords and phrases from the above comments on both ExFamily.org and NewDayNews.com, both of which seemed like prime candidates for containing posts of this nature.
Nothing. Not even a similar comment. Ok...one similar comment, but it was addressed to Peter and it mentioned nothing about destroying the Family or anyone's life. Here's an excerpt of that brief post:
"Let it be known that this day I call upon God Almighty to judge you & Maria for the blood that has been shed! May God watch over you to destroy you. May your consciences never have rest!" (http://www.exfamily.org/chatbbs/genx/posts/16922.htm)
Nothing came even remotely close to the "if I have to use my teeth" declaration.
Where are they getting those 2 comments from? Are there more?
If it turns out that they are fabricated, then my guess would be that the person who was assigned the task of gleaning these quotes off the internet opted to try to receive these comments from Jesus in prophecy in stead of visiting the ex-member Websites and getting "influenced negatively" by their content.
If anyone else wants to give searching for these comments a shot, be my guest. I'll gladly be proven wrong.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 17:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Once Elves, the fairest and most beautiful of all creatures that through years of torture and deformation became the hideous beasts they were portrayed as in the Lord of the Rings."
Years of torture and deformation in The Family and then the often dangerous struggle to build a life outside in the big cruel world with no help and abandoned by those who should care the most about what they are responsible for bringing into the world.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From firestarter replacement.
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 21:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
it's perfectly understandable why the Family loves movies like the Lord of the Rings, it's about a fantasy world and it's about good guys fighting "demons." I remember when I was in the Fam they loved the Matrix, the whole superpower fighting the "Antichrist soldiers" from the underground worked out great, and who could forget Firestarter. I've noticed that on netlinkup there are a bunch of people who are way into the Lord of the Rings, hell there was someone with an elvish script tatoo, kind of makes sense now. (reply to this comment) |
| | from shikaka
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 14:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
"How do you get inside the head of a newspaper? What’s in there? Wood pulp. Wood pulp and a BA in Journalism! Well, I’ve got one of those myself, and I’m proud to say I’ve never used it."
evidently.
(reply to this comment)
| from Shaka
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 11:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
I can go to work happy now, that was fun. Everytime I start thinking we're are going up against a force to be reckoned with, I read something like this and it always cheers me up to know that we are really just dealing with retards who happen to have good lawyers.
(reply to this comment)
| from Greensack
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 10:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
What most christians don't understand is that to be a satanist one has to be a christian first. Satan is a christian concept. Bhuddists accurately refer to the deity as the christian devil. Satanism is simply reverse christianity. It is the christian faith that is singularly equipped to understand satanism, since they invented it.
(reply to this comment)
| from Nancy
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 09:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
This muttering is totally typical of the cult's garden variety member. It makes no sense, goes no where and includes the word "ha." It really is amuzing if it weren't so damn pathetic.
He obviously does none of his own thinking. He doesn't read or research anything of which he speaks. He isn't even aware of much of the details of his son's own life, except for the fact that he contributed nothing to it.
The people who "egged on" Ricky? He even hasn't seen the video. He just regurgitates the cult propaganda. No wonder the cult leadership gets rich of these idiots! I could make a cult out of them. My three year old could persuade them with the negotiating tactics he's acquired as a toddler. They're idiot sheep, and literally proud of it!
(reply to this comment)
| from Priceless:
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 06:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/31/here-i-stand-i-can-do-no-other/#more-327
My personal favorite poem/song that the family sga's have posted:
To Whom It May Concern:
Those who try to make us burn
You certainly sound stern,
But you’ll never make us turn
With all your fancy terms
Like Herod eaten by worms
You spew your verbal germs
Proudly the truth you spurn
You think that you have nothing to learn
But wait till God has his turn
Then suddenly you will squirm
When the judgment wheels they churn
I will pity you then
For it is you who will bend
For all the evil you did send
Upon David’s mighty men
Common Joe H. - you know you wanna say something....
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From conan
Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 08:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
I had a good chuckle when reading the "poem" above but was not going to comment untill I clicked on the link and read the article that goes along with the attemp at creative poetry writing. The author is...get this: 22 years old! I mean I know that education is not focused on in TF, but for a 22 year old guy that is just sad. My good chuckle turned into side-splitting laughter after reading what this knuckle head had to say. Truly funny ppl and worth the few minutes it will take to read just to get a good laugh.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from intellectual bozo?!?
Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 03:22
(Agree/Disagree?)
"If the intellectual bozos who bullied and bamboozled Ricky into losing his sanity and his birthright had chosen another route; if they had decided to better their own lives and the lives of others; if, in fact, they had made it their life’s mission to become useful members of society instead of the bloodthirsty leeches that they are now, you never would’ve heard of them, either. But you’ll be hearing plenty from them in the days to come!—that you can also bet on. "
uhm...is this supposed to be referring to "us" all? i somehow don't see how this could apply - although i'm sure there's a bit of everything around - seeing most of the people i know on this site ARE trying to better their lives and quite a few are even quite successful at that!
(reply to this comment)
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