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from Anthony Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:05 (Agree/Disagree?) I'll stay out of this one, although I will say that if FGA's start actively participating on this site in numbers, I'll leave and never come back!! (reply to this comment)

From Anthony Friday, November 21, 2003, 12:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I lied: I'm not completely staying out of this one, at least not for another comment. For many people, a great part of moving on consist of having the offender offer a sincere apology. If an FGA were to do this here, I hope it would be well received! (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Friday, November 21, 2003 - 04:02 (Agree/Disagree?) Oma, it should be obvious that you’re asking for trouble by calling yourself “Oma” and “auntie Praise”, though the rest of your article really wasn’t that bad. What others have said here is true, this site isn’t for you, I think it’s basically for people who are still in pursuit of happiness and want to vent some rage on the way. Anyone who’s managed to calm down, has new friends and enjoys life really isn’t that welcome here. (reply to this comment)

From Hanna_Black Friday, November 21, 2003, 06:11 (Agree/Disagree?) "Anyone who’s managed to calm down, has new friends and enjoys life really isn’t that welcome here." ...I would think that the term "moving on" describes just that!(reply to this comment)

From venusbutterfly Friday, November 21, 2003, 04:37 (Agree/Disagree?) sorry to hear that you do not have friends and do not enjoy life...(reply to this comment)

from Zed Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 20:58 (Agree/Disagree?) You need to go to another site lady. This simply is not the place to talk about you. If you stole a car would you post an ad on a police department web site? No. Well you "stole" (or through your silence/compliance helped steal) something from us. Now you want to come here for "moral support"? Wrong address. (reply to this comment)

from BrokenBodyStrongSpirit Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 13:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Until you have been an 8 year old with a grown man's hand up in her **** every night because he shares a room with you; until you have been a 10 year old who was raped by a host of "loving uncles"; until you have been an 11 year old that was sent by your "loving shepherds" out with a "fish" that tried to rape you; until you have been an 11 year old who was forced to suck her step-father's ****, or put on a "sharing schedule" when you were 12, and until you have been told by your "loving shepherds" that everything that happened to you was not abuse, and that if you were not so prudish and "un-revolutionary" you would be able to admit that you actually ENJOYED what happened to you, THEN YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ANYONE TO JUST "GET OVER THE PAST"!!!!! Did you even for one second stop to consider that what we are doing here on this site IS getting over the past??!!! Who are you to say what type of road of healing we can walk down?? There is no way to get over any type of past hurt without confronting it, not trying to hide it away and pretend it did not happen. ANYONE--except maybe some deluded Family members--can tell you that. Did you also stop to think that perhaps some of the broken bodies and broken hearts that are the make-up of this site's membership would like to see even a little bit of justice done for their suffering? Don't you think that they are worthy of some sort of recompence for all they've gone through? Or are you just too cold-hearted to see that? Even just to vent the anger can help, and that is what this site is for. Do not forget either the fact that the physical abuse--which in some people's cases was astronomical--was not the only abuse. You cannot even begin to touch the surfice when you start discribing the mental, emotional, moral, and spiritual abuse. And that stuff, let me tell you, can take a long, long time to mend. Maybe you should take a moment to look past the words on this site, and see why there is anger there. And yes, all that--and more--happened to me. (reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Thursday, November 20, 2003, 17:15 (Agree/Disagree?) First I do want to apologize: for what we adults didn´t do for you ,second I am not in the matter of telling anyone what road to take.These were real questions from me and third YOU make me understand . And I respect you quite a lot, cause your message to me isn´t that insultin like Joe H. I did not have the faintest idea of what did happen to so many of you. Believe me. Take care.(reply to this comment)

From exister Thursday, November 20, 2003, 14:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Right On! Saddly, no compensation in the universe can make up for such torture and its aftermath. This site is about victims feeling some semblance of respect from the only ones that can truly empathize with them, their fellow vicitms. I respect you...(reply to this comment)

From tommyknocker Thursday, November 20, 2003, 14:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Did you ever consider that perhaps Oma Lu could also be a victim? Just because she is the first Generation doesn't mean she couldn't have also been mentally and/or physically abused.(reply to this comment)

From 2 pence Thursday, November 20, 2003, 14:36 (Agree/Disagree?) You could look at it this way: we are survivors, and she may be a survivor too, but she survived something qualitatively different. This website does not say "created for all survivors of everything." I prefer to call myself a survivor than a victim (and yes, I was badly abused, and yes, I had it extremely hard when I left). (reply to this comment)

From Hanna_Black Thursday, November 20, 2003, 14:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree, 2pence. Still, does it give give the vitctim/survivor of a greater evil the right to be unfriendly (putting it mildly) to a victim/survivor of a lesser evil, even if the second did, perhaps stupidly choose it himself?(reply to this comment)

from tommyknocker Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 13:37 (Agree/Disagree?) I think it takes a lot of balls for a Mother of 8 kids to leave the group. Put yourself in her place. You've been dependent on the lifestyle for so long. Maybe she realized she had made a mistake by joining but what to do? If she leaves, how would she support herself and her 8 kids? She was willing to risk it because she knew in heart that she was doing the right thing. She loved her kids enough to try and give them something better. I wish my folks had done that for me. Before one goes and starts accusing her of being a "purpetrator", stop and think rational. You can't label someone with a blanket-accusation. Just cuz shes "older", doesn't mean she's the criminal. You don't know her. Maybe she could be blamed for being a silent observer but even the law gives someone the right to innocence before being proved guilty. I imagine shes already beaten herself up enough for her past mistakes. Shes tried her best to make it right by giving her kids the chance to grow up normal now. Oma Lu, Nice to have you here (reply to this comment)

From Nick Thursday, November 20, 2003, 14:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Exactly! In some ways some of our parents are more of a victim that we are because they are to old to start again. (reply to this comment)

From banal_commentator Saturday, November 22, 2003, 02:02 (Agree/Disagree?) A victim of their own stupidity maybe. God, you can victimize yourself over anything these days. (reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Friday, November 21, 2003, 04:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Our parents were stupid and brainwashed, that's all there was to it. They know it, the ones who have left and are honest will admit to it. I respect the ones who realise it and have gone on with rebuilding their lives, I don't respect the ones who have a shitload of excuses as to why they remained in the group when the weirdness began. The sad truth is though that some of them don't even have the answer to it, my husband (who is an FGA) doesn't, my father doesn't, all they can say is they were stupid and blind and they know they can never make it up to their children. At least they realise that much though, and it's a start.(reply to this comment)

From neez Thursday, November 20, 2003, 16:46 (Agree/Disagree?) Are you for real Nick? They didn't get old overnight.(reply to this comment)

From 2 pence Thursday, November 20, 2003, 15:43 (Agree/Disagree?) That doesn't make them more of a "victim," it is just a different consequence of their "victimization" which you have the right to your own opinion as to whether it's "worse." But why don't you limit the comparison to yourself, because some of us have stories of what we went through as minors that is more horrific by any reasonable measure than waking up late to a bad decision you made as an adult and having to live with the consequences.(reply to this comment)

from Joe H Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:35 (Agree/Disagree?) First of all, allow me to thank you. Reading your article with a fake German accent was just the laugh I needed to start the day! That being said, who the hell do you think you are to come on here and tell people how to deal with their past? Your token disclaimer of "I had some hard times too" is utterly meaningless, no adult went through what the children went through back then. I'd sooner listen to a former Nazi concentration camp guard tell holocaust survivors to "get over it" then stomach your sheizer! What?, are you expecting us to say "Ok thank you Auntie Praise! I'm really touched in the spirit by your words of wisdom! I'm going to go write a 10 page reaction now!" Go fuck yourself! (reply to this comment)

From Nick Thursday, November 20, 2003, 13:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Joe, I usually agree with your rantings on this site, but this one is a complete load of crap. This site should welcome all exmembers no matter what their opinion is and this woman cam here with her valid point of view. She posted in a completely no combative tone and nothing about that post was "spiritual" yet you attacked her withought knowing anything about her life in the cult. I have never met her and don't know the ins and outs of her life in the cult, but I know that she did put her kids first by running away in the middle of the night with no money and no support so she could provide a better life for her kids. I would love to hear what your response to your own mother would be if she were to post on here. All that to say, why don't you go fuck yourself!(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Thursday, November 20, 2003, 16:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Nick, you hardly ever agree with my rantings, but maybe you'll agree with what I'm about to say: Every month some jackass comes on here and tells everybody to get over it and move on. This happens so often that I think there ought to be an announcement on the front page forbidding these types of articles (or at least strongly discouraging them). The reason I hate these types of articles is not because I disagree with them - for me, forgetting the past has worked quite well, but I would never presume to tell anyone else how to deal with their pain and suffering. Most people, especially the girls, had it a lot worse than I did, but even if all our experiences had been exactly the same, every person is still different, and reacts to trauma differently. It's bad enough when someone from our age group comes here and tells us to "just get over it." They at least have some credibility, having gone through very similar experiences. But when Auntie Praise comes here, to what Jules so accurately described as "our space," and delivers the exact same presumptious unrequested advice, but packaged in her sickeningly sweet tone, well I think the language I used was justified. And to answer your question, my mother would never post a word on here, much less to tell people how to deal with their issues. She knows that this is our space, though she does read from time to time. But if you think the reformed Uncle Fartamores and Auntie Sunshines have something valuable to add, maybe you and omaluks can continue this discussion over at newdaynews.com, where you'll be free of interruptions from "spoiled little brats" like me!(reply to this comment)

From Jules Thursday, November 20, 2003, 14:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Nick, this site is open to anyone despite their opinion. However, it was created for people born into the Family. That was and still is a clear and specific focus for this forum. It is "our" space. (reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Thursday, November 20, 2003, 12:05 (Agree/Disagree?) I think you are a very sad little spoiled brat. Who the hell do you think you are? (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Thursday, November 20, 2003, 12:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Isn't it just like an "Auntie Praise" to call someone a spoiled little brat when they disagree with them? I'm 23 years old, I have more education than you, and I make a lot more money, so don't you dare address me in that tone! I am a very happy young adult, not "a very sad little spoiled brat"! To answer your question, I think I'm someone who belongs on this website, which, if you'll read the first page you'll see is "created by and for young adults." Former Uncles and Aunties are not welcome here, and your type has repeatedly been asked to leave in the past. Off to exfamily.org with you! Auf wiedersehn!(reply to this comment)

From Nick Thursday, November 20, 2003, 13:33 (Agree/Disagree?) What the hell does you having more education than her and having more money that her have to do with anything? And anyway, from what I hear you don't really make all that much money. And who said this site doesn't welcome former Uncles and Aunties? I mean as long as they don’t get to preachy and start bashing everyone then what’s wrong with that? (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Thursday, November 20, 2003, 16:29 (Agree/Disagree?) I make just fine money thank you very much, perhaps the rumor mill needs some fresh grain. I think that at 23 I'm a little old to be called a "spoiled little brat." You're right, income and education have very little to do with my taking offence. "And who said this site doesn't welcome former Uncles and Aunties?" Well, I said it, but there also used to be an introduction that said it too, but I can't seem to find it. No matter, it is common knowledge that this board is for young people. That's what sets it apart from exfamily.org and newdaynews.com. (reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Thursday, November 20, 2003, 12:57 (Agree/Disagree?) First of al I didn´t start this at all. It was Mr. Education with a little more money, that will not buy him a bit of politness. I´ve tried first but you don´t seem to understand normal conversation at all. So I switch over to yours. That´s all. I write back to the adress and if my tone doesn´t suit you wear a different suit, please. I did read some articles and comments of yours and I must say you were very sympatic because your honest. It´s the Music of your song that has a way. It all depends on how you say things not so much what. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, November 20, 2003, 19:14 (Agree/Disagree?) OmaLu: If you've read any of the articles on here, I'm surprised that you would use such a condescending tone. Your situation and ours are very different. Yours came with a choice, ours did not. I can completley understand JoeH's anger at your article. It's not for you to tell us to "move on". We are each doing that in our own way! If you can understand that then you are welcome to post here, if not please refrain from doing so. And where do you get your nerve calling one of us spoiled??? Please!! For the most part, anything that we have has been by our own blood, sweat, and tears scraping to get by despite the circumstances our parents brought us into. Nothing in our childhoods could allow any semi sane person to call us spoiled. If JoeH wants to brag about his education, well, good for him! He's earned it!! I know he can be infuriating at times, but he as well as any of us who've overcome what your generation put us through have every right to brag about our accomplishments. (reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Thursday, November 20, 2003, 20:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi, your are all right about this. Took me a long time whats going on here. Sorry. Really! I didn´t get this that you got it the way that I was trying to tell you how to move or not . They were questions, and first I was very offended by Joe H. as he started this language. Its not my way, but I felt being knocked down and didn´t know why. How would you have reacted as an older person. I´m really sorry if I made the impression that I´m Auntie so and so. I don´t even know you, so how can I be someones aunty. And do ask my kids. I´ve always treated them politly, and if theres someone who bangs on me without me knowing the reason, I suppose I give it back where it came from. But hey I'm not here for arguments. I highly respect you young people a lot. I imagine if its hard for me as an adult with some things from-TF how much harder, worse it is for you. (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, November 20, 2003, 22:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Thanks for acknowledging that! It says alot about your character!(reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Friday, November 21, 2003, 02:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Feels good to get a chance.Thanks. I promise I will refrain from any comments and articles. It really isn´t my thing. But I found out you all are way ahaed of me when it comes to work out the past. RESPECT.I do envy you for that quiet alot. Take care of yourself. (reply to this comment)

From Bella Thursday, November 20, 2003, 20:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I have to agree with frmrjoyish and Joe about the name calling. Talk about a desperate attempt! Reminds me of my father who recently told me I was a "very sarcastic little girl and very disrespectful too" -- give me a break! I simply reminded him that I am a young woman who is married, getting an education, on my way to a successful career and didn't deserved to be talked to like that from any man, especially my chauvinist father!(reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Friday, November 21, 2003, 19:23 (Agree/Disagree?) I wonder if he'll ever pull that one again. The last time he treated me like an errant child we had a major fight, and he's never really dared do it again.(reply to this comment)

From Bella Friday, November 21, 2003, 20:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Of course he'll do that again because he has no respect for women! Have you ever heard of him talking to Sam like that? You're lucky that he hasn't tried that one with you recently, perhaps it's because you are the oldest ;-) xox miss you(reply to this comment)

From neez Thursday, November 20, 2003, 17:18 (Agree/Disagree?) Could you perhaps switch back to 'normal conversation'. I honestly couldn't understand that 'suit' (I spose that makes me.. I dunno.. rebellious, selfish, & ugly?) Would you prefer to be polite? Or be able to construct a legible sentence. btw.... If my Mum came stumbling onto this site like you've done, with all the finesse & class of a weiner-schnitzel, I'd probably start looking for a nice isolated retirement home for her.(reply to this comment)

From exister Thursday, November 20, 2003, 11:54 (Agree/Disagree?) OmaLu, It seems JoeH will stay on your ass until you bounce. In the meantime why don't you entertain us all by answering for what you have done. Confess!!(reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Thursday, November 20, 2003, 12:09 (Agree/Disagree?) What makes you think I´d like to entertain you? Why do you want me to entertainyou all by what I´ve done(reply to this comment)

From exister Thursday, November 20, 2003, 12:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Because you are a perpetrator, plain and simple. I myself was always the demon seed in The Family, and my reward for that is the knowledge that I never participated in the abuse of my generation. While some young adults on this site may have particitpated in Family "leadership" their participation was likely coerced. You, on the other hand, chose to yield your will to a brutal and abusive hierarchy and freely participated in their crimes. Confess!!(reply to this comment)

From OmaLu Thursday, November 20, 2003, 13:10 (Agree/Disagree?) Now I understand. See you have a different way of saying the things that Joe tries to get across. what makes you think I freely...... what could I have done. I was glad my ex didn´t disappear with my kids. I never had any money since he was the "head of the family", and this an adult. Has your mom been beaten up, nose broken, raped, forced to prostituit. I was scared to death and my only goal was to go away with the kids but we always were outside in the boonies and I did´t have access to money till the few weeks before we left. Does this really work to sue the family. I always wanted . (reply to this comment)

From Bella Thursday, November 20, 2003, 18:08 (Agree/Disagree?) OmaLu, you stated "what could I have done." -- PLEASE!! You JOINED the group! That is what you DID that is in great contrast with every young person on this board! First of all, you never HAD to join! Second of all, you were an ADULT and COULD HAVE left! How were any of us suppose to leave when we were only babies? I agree with Joe on this one, I think you should let this board be for what it was intended for: a place where children OF the Children of God are able to rant, rave, and communicate, with out feeling old hostilities towards first generation adults....(reply to this comment)

From venusbutterfly Friday, November 21, 2003, 02:56 (Agree/Disagree?) I think this whole debate is a whole lot more complex then it appears to be.... maybe this "FGA" should indeed not have posted here but i don't think this to be the subject matter..... yes, this person (as most if not all our parents) joined the cult out of their own consent, however - and without defending any of them - i have come to do a lot of thinking about all of this, and my conclusion is that at the time they joined, a lot of them most probably did NOT realise what they were getting into and by the time they did, a lot of them (especially the women) already had one or more babies and that became nonetheless their main concern. now let this be clear that i am NOT talking about those who deliberately took part in any abuse of any kind, but those who just probably felt lost (and you don't have to be in a cult to feel lost, it's sometimes a natural phase in life) and wanted the best for their children, only they had no education, no money and most of all the great emotional and psychological pressure and all the fears, guilt etc etc as we already know existed. as a woman and a mother i can relate to some extent. i got into a relationship when i had just turned 18 and am not proud to say that i was extremely stupid at the time. i had left just a year before, running away in the middle of the night, but won't get into those details. all this to say that going from one extreme to the other i was in this relationship and not after very long i realised it wasn't for me for various reasons and wanted to leave, however i also found myself pregnant and with the stupid notion of guilt that had been instilled all my life and that i hadn't yet had the time to clean out of my system, to me it seemed like the only thing i could do was keep that baby and seeing i had no education, no money (as i had an extremely low salary at the time & 6 months left of a one year only working contract) not being able to afford a place to stay - and not being aware of the possible organisations around to help me, although i've had a taste of those too since then and they're crap - i felt like the only thing left to do was stay with the guy. so although i didn't only not love the guy, i soon couldn't stand him however i wanted what was best for my child and felt this was the only way of providing a life for my baby. so after 6 years two attempts to try and get away (but somehow always having to go back with no other choice) and another baby, i finally got out of that realtionship, and personally sometimes i think that some of the women in the cult somehow lived something similar and although i'm not ready to forgive and forget anything about my life in the cult, maybe it's unfair to put all the "FGA's" in the same basket, because i personally saw some women go through some pretty bad stuff themselves and i don't think it's too far fetched to presume that some of them were threatened and abused as well and held merely by great fear. the goal of this post is not to tell my life story so i'll stop now and please forgive my lack of elocutional skills. i am aware that this site is for those who did not have a choice to join, however i have seen other posts of some not so young people and no one jumped on them, so maybe we shouldn't be so swift to jump at someone's throat who is also not able to express themselves so well before trying to understand what is really being said, and there is an administration of this site who's job it is to let people know wether or not they are welcome, and can be done in a private way without dragging people in the dirt - and again, i am NOT talking about people who are clearly posting agressively or procult propaganda, but the others, who might have just been looking for a sympathetic ear - and we've all been there done & needed that at least once in our lives. anyone who wishes to is welcome to express their hostile feelings towards me however bear in mind that i might not take the time to riposte.(reply to this comment)

From krystine Friday, November 21, 2003, 03:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Just because you joined on your own does not mean you are any less of victim. My family was ts'ed when I was fourteen and being that was the only life I knew even though I had been physically and mentally abused I could hardly wait till I was sixteen to rejoin D.O. on my own. It took me awhile even after I ran away shortly after I rejoined on my own to get the guilty mentality out of my head because I wasn't "serving the lord." We were raised to believe the system was an evil and dangerous place and as bad as we have it in the family, outside is much worst. I think since a lot of our parents joined while they were getting of of drugs in the hippy days that some even believe the system is a hell hole as most of them can't remeber what happened especially when they were young messed-up teenagers themselves. I personally resent an aunty coming on this site and telling us to move on but this dosn't mean she should be barred from this site because she joined on her own especially because she had the guts to leave with her kids which is something I wish my mom did when I was younger. (reply to this comment)

From exister Thursday, November 20, 2003, 13:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't discount the fact that many original members were also victims. Still, you must understand the animosity that many here feel to those who silently stood by while children were victimized, for whatever reason. History will not soon forget Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler, nor will we forgot those original member who consented to our brutalization through inaction.(reply to this comment)