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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Browser
Friday, January 28, 2005 - 08:56
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http://www.blythecanews.com/BLYTHECANEWS/myarticles.asp?P=1070686&S=395&PubID=13638
Too bad this interview wasn't aired. I'm sure the investigator would have had some interesting things to say.
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| from frmrjoyish
Friday, January 28, 2005 - 07:29
 (Agree/Disagree?)
So Claire Borowick is the best TF can do?? Geez, I was expecting a little better than that! She was pathetic! She came across as cold, defensive, and without even an ounce of compassion for poor Ricky. No wonder he was so messed up in the head. It broke my heart to see and hear the things coming out of his mouth! Her response to why he did what he did was,"Well we live in a violent world" or something along those lines. How heartless can a person be?
And her flat out lie of not knowing who Paul Peloquin is was actually amusing! Everyone, esp all the teen girls, knew who that pervert, aka Josiah was! He had to be the horniest "Uncle" around with the worst octopus hands of anyone I've ever met! He would scold you for the slightest thing just so he could show you "how much he loved you" afterwards! Pervert!
Overall I was glad that it portrayed TF as the cold heartless monsters they are! I thought it was a little sensationalized but hey, sex is what gets attention nowadays I guess. So much was left unsaid like the physical and emotional abuse, the child labor, being denied and education etc. But I guess only so much can be said in a 20 minute clip on a TV news magazine.
Many thanks to all of you who participated! It took guts and my hat is off to you! The more we speak out and answer to the lies coming from TF the more OUR story will be heard.
(reply to this comment)
|  From analysis of variance
Friday, January 28, 2005, 11:46
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I thought the Primetime interviewer nailed Borowick fairly well at the conclusion of the interview with the question about why no one knew where Ricky's mother is in the midst of this terrible tragedy. I heard a subtext in the interviewer's question that ran like this: Why are you taking all the heat, Claire? Why won't Maria come out and publically address questions about her son's accusations and violent actions?
Borowick's reply that she didn't know why Maria kept her whereabouts unknown--"It's just her policy"--was pathetic. Isn't the location of the endtime army's queen kept selah to protect the Family's commander-in-chief from a direct attack by the anti-christ? That's the line they give the tithing members last time I heard it discussed. I would have loved to hear Borowick explain the Family's anti-christ persecution conspiracy. The press would have a field-day with that one. It might help the rest of the world understand why people who grow up in such an incredibly delusional belief system have so much difficulty adjusting to life on the outside.
The Family's bizaar complex of motivating beliefs, particularly the fantasyland of end-time prophesies as a rationale for why they need to be ruled by an autocratic queen, really needs to be exposed. The xfamily.org site is looking really good, btw-- Please don't forget to put in all the wacko end-time prophesies the Family feeds its members. Reading Berg's 1978 Davidito prophesy made my gut wrench. What a load of delusional crap to lay on a child. Think about what a major mind-f*** it is to grow up being told you're going to die with your mother while standing up against the power of the anti-christ! They wired the poor kid's brain for self-destruction from the get-go. The sick, perverse teaching about Davidito's future should get an entry under "psychological & spiritual abuse."
I notice Borowick has put a fair amount of energy into explaining to the media that the Family has known for some time the Davidito prophesy wouldn't be fulfilled. Never mind that putting a bizaare expectation like that on a child ultimately twists the brain into a friggin' knot of confusion about his purpose & role in life. And minimizing all the suicides of former members and SGs--I don't know how Borowick sleeps at night. (reply to this comment) |
| | from Guccigirl
Friday, January 28, 2005 - 06:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
I just want to say to everyone who was involved in ABC program last night. THANK YOU!!! You were GREAT!! When they pulled out the Dito book & all the footage I felt so vindicated, and the look on Claires face was priceless!!! It is illegal to "publish, promote, print, distribute,record & encourage sexual acts of a child" They Had Mo on Tape saying it's ok to have sex with 12 yr olds & Zerbys own son in print. All these publication were distributed around the World. The Verdict "GUILTY"
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| from Banshee
Friday, January 28, 2005 - 00:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
As someone who was once being trained to be a "spokesperson" for this group, I was so upset to hear the current members sit there and claim that they had "never experienced abuse."
I used to say that too. And yet, my "father" sexually abused me for over a year. From the age of 8, I had men--adults--getting their jollies off with me. And yet I would claim I was not abused.
Because they tell you to say that. They tell you that you were not really abused. That it was..."all done in love." Or..."it was just a mistake of an individual member." (Yeah, right.) They tell you that whatever the hell you went through was absolutely nothing compared to what kids go through in the "system." Oh, THAT was REAL abuse. You, no, you had it easy. So just say it wasn't abuse. Because you really have no idea.
Who would have known, I get out in the real world...and I find out...DAMN!
Anyway, sorry, I just was so upset when I watched that, and so I just wanted to say...all that "I was never abused" crap is just bullshit. But, of course, you all know that.
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| from tastypants
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 22:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/01/27/MNG8MB16Q51.DTL
(reply to this comment)
| from Tito
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 22:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
It was pretty easy to get up there and talk, but it's not so easy to know that so much more is left unsaid. I was Francisco, 25, admitted the truth after denying it on 20/20 in 1988. (I can think of 10 other kids who could have taken my place on the show and damned the cult to 7 years of bad luck). It's been easy to avoid and ignore the memories of the group, with time they do fade. However they are always there and occasionally will pop out and crush you when your life starts to feel meaningless. With what had happened to Davidito, I felt obligated to remember and recollect out of respect for his life-long tragedy. When ABC called me, I was not surprised. Within a day I was sitting down for the interview. I knew what I wanted to say, but really didn't get to. One question after the other it was about sex or physical abuse. So much involved my parents and my siblings and I didn't want to involve or represent their feelings in any way, so it was limiting. 5 years of regular sexual experiences with children, teens, adults, and books we were to believe and dedicate our souls to, and physical abuse by adults while my dad was away- I decided is impossible to talk about openly in an interview with the media. Giving one example leaves an open-ended question in your mind of "When can I explain that feeling, its affects on me, and what I think of the experience?". I think that the interrogation/interview format for ex-members is not a healthy way to let their silence be broken because it has these very thick border barriers for your thought process and exposure; now a documentary would be different. The experience must be explained, thoroughly, and in detail with multiple examples, if it is to count at face value. If you are one that is interested in speaking out and getting involved in our generations recovery, I suggest writing a book or finding and participating in a documentary. Although we need the right people answering the right questions in the interviews so that the experiences of many of us can be represented, beware that it may not help in the healing process so far as I can tell.
(reply to this comment)
| From ChrisG
Friday, January 28, 2005, 01:35
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Thank you for getting up there and speaking for all of us. I think you came across well. I think if you would have appeared over-eager to get into details, your story would have been easier to discredit, since most people expect abuse victims to have a hard time talking about their experiences. I admire each one of you that put your faces on the show and told it the way it was. Claire is lying right through her crooked teeth and it just kills me. Her claim that the sexually permissive environment was only in a few homes was hogwash, as well as that all sexual contact with minors was banned after 1986. Once a sexual pervert, always a sexual pervert, and once these "uncles" and some "aunties" had let the demons out of their bags, they weren't very eager to put them back in again.
As far as the family young person's claim that she knows "a hundred" members of TF that have never experienced abuse, I would ask her to define abuse. When I was in TF I went through entire sessions of Q and A where we were asked by the adults if we had been abused, and we said "no" again and again. They told me the sex was not real abuse because it was done in love and nobody forced us (who would resist after reading letters like The Girl Who Wouldn't and Heaven's Girl from the age of 7). They said the beatings weren't abuse because they were done to make us better soldiers, and of course all the "systemites" got it a lot worse, and were beaten all the time by angry parents, not by "loving" ones like ours.
They painted this horrid picture of the outside world through the Traumatic Testimonies and other letters and I was scared shitless about ever going into it. Unfortunately, some of these young people have never lived in the real world so they might still be comparing their past experiences with a skewed picture of what really goes on out here. My daughter is 6 years old, and I make sure we live in an area with good schools, I know her teachers well, I hand pick recreational programs for her and attend them with her and I get to know other parents before I let her go to their house for a play date. All that to say, that even though abuse does go on in the real world, there are plenty of ways that parents can protect their children from abusive situations. If abuse ever does happen to children, at least they are taught by society that it is abuse, and they are not told it's actually all love and God's will, which messes with your head.
Thank you again for speaking for us all, and I hope I can help in any way to expose the lies that TF is putting out.
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| | | | | | | | from Shaz
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 21:11
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To all of you who took the time to be interviewed for these shows I just wanted to say you did great! I know how hard it is to be on camera so I admire you greatly for your courage.
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| | | | from xolox
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 21:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
The Moores, aparently spokespeople for TF now, are not your run of the mill satisfied members. The Moores Grandpa, William E. Moore is the Chairman of the board of the Kelly Moore paint chain worth multi-millions. Somehow I doubt any leader in TF would have jeopardized that cash cow by stressing the little Mooreletts out. I don't belive they would have been through what most children in the family had to go through. And with grandpas millions to fall back on, paying the bills would never have posed a problem. Just the kind of people TF would tap to speak for them. I wonder what Grandpa will do when he hears that his little Mooreletts are publicly defending TF? And he WILL find out.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 21:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
I knew the Moore family. They must have been OCD or something, I have never seen anyone in or out of the cult with such an obsession with working out and eating nothing but fat free food (i.e. lettuce with no dressing). But I do think they are are your run-of-the-mill brainwashed culties....believe me.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from an fg exmember
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 20:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
I am an fg exmember , 1970-1991. Shortly after the recent tragedy a close friend of mine, a respected voice in the field of post cult recovery, was approached by abc to see if he could connect them w/ a fg former member, to try and get an fg to both validate the reality that so many sg’s were so eloquently expressing, as well as a reaction to the tragedy, and how one who was an adult member at the time of most of the (sexual) abuses occurred viewed the matter. I was extremely reluctant, for the usual reasons, (how it might affect my kids and grandkids, the many community connections in our new life, my family’s livelihood etc.) but after discussing the matter w/ my adult children, as well as several key members of this discussion board, I concluded, that if abc would offer anonymity, that it might be worth the risk. The thought was, that as the current family leadership cannot seem to bring themselves to straitforwardly admit the truth of what happened, and who was at the very root of the problem, at least someone from that generation could acknowledge the truth, accept a part in our shared responsibility, and express our shame and sorrow for the part we played in supporting this toxic environment.
The filming seemed to go well. It was extremely stressful, humiliating, and painful, particularly when asked to react to clips from the video Ricky made. Since leaving the family, I have gradually grown more aware of not only the widespread nature of abuse w/in the movement, but also how devastating such abuse can be in the lives of its victims. I know many who frequent this site have gained not only an academic insight to the issues, but have lived thru it. As a parent, I have been slow to begin to understand the depth of many of these matters, despite trips to emergency rooms and psych wards in it’s wake. Confronting the stark reality of the pain so gripping Ricky’s psyche, and facing the fact that as an adult member of the group, despite the dynamics of thought reform and spiritual abuse we had succumbed to, and the almost unbelievable way sexual norms had been completely redefined in our minds, we must accept the fact that once “my little fish” was published we should have awakened and done whatever we could to resist this perversion. Climbing back inside my head at the time I have to admit, tho I was shocked, I thought it was MY problem, not that of “God’s end time prophet.” but none of that means much to you all. We simply failed. Whatever the reasons, and whatever spell we were under, we failed to protect you. And as adults, whatever the reason, by participation or permission, (I personally never had sex w/ a minor) we bear responsibility. I for one, and many many other parents I know, are deeply sorry for what happened, and it will no doubt be the biggest regret of our lives.
We must also agree, it was not only the sexual abuse that we allowed, but the overall approach to raising our children was badly misguided. Even in the best of circumstances we failed to prepare you for a life of options, and in the worst of circumstances, the physical and emotional abuse was unconscionable.
In the end, the producer told me today that for a variety of reasons, the interview we did would not be used. I will admit to being somewhat relieved, on a personal level, yet disappointed that that little voice of acknowledgement from a member of the first generation, and a chance to personally apologize, would not be heard. hence, this post…
Over the last few years I have spent a good deal of time and energy trying to find if there might be a way to aid in the healing process. Perhaps the main insight I’ve gained is that it is a very complex problem, that seems to defy simple solution. but besides your efforts to bring the truth to light, and attempts to bring family leadership and others perpetrators to justice, (whatever that may look like), and the admirable way you support one another in your struggles, if there are ever efforts to explore paths toward healing, if there is ever a use for repentant fg’s, please let us know.
I also want to offer my deepest condolences to all of you who have lost friends, family, and loved ones. With admiration, and a wish for your peace, ex-kenaz.
(reply to this comment)
| From FGA with sis still in group
Friday, January 28, 2005, 17:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, that was beautifully written, brother, and, since I know you, I also know how sincere it is. I feel the same as you and would like to second your offer to help in whatever way possible with the healing process if any SGA's are interested. Though I was fortunate to get out a long time ago (1979), the experience has continued to affect me greatly these last 25 years; however, as I shared with you the last time I saw you (a few months ago), I am finally finding healing in it all and I have a peace that I never thought I could have.
With that said, this recent tragedy has really broken my heart again for all the SGA's and what they have had to go through. I can only thank God that I was able to get out before most of my children could experience any of this. As far as my oldest daughter (who is 31 and was born in the group, in Italy, to be exact), I am not so sure as she does not have any specific memories, but it seems may have blocked a lot of things out.
I, too, want to ask forgiveness for having even been a part of a group that exploited anyone, especially young, innocent ones who never asked to be there in the first place.
We who joined way back when were very idealistic. We were looking for love, a family, a purpose and to help make a better world...if that was not the case, then we would've stayed where we were in what seemed like a very boring existance. The thing we didn't realize was we were actually giving over our souls to someone who could've really cared less about who we were as people, much less what our ideals were. Slowly, but surely, we forgot who we were and we became who they wanted us to be. When I look back on that time, I have a hard time believing it was me...it's as if that was another life....I wish!!
About 12 yrs ago, after finding out about my oldest daughter's abuse by my brother (who was never IN TF) when she was about 17, she reverted back to a little girl of about 4 or 5 before my eyes and started rocking back and forth. I wept as she asked me why I had let her go there (to a school outside of Paris where we lived.) I told her that I thought they loved her and I thought that was best for her. She told me (with the voice of a little girl again), "No, they didn't love me, and they didn't love you either!"..."out of the mouth of babes and sucklings"! I wept as I held her and asked forgiveness for having let her be separated from me during that time. I still don't know what may have happened as she has never wanted to talk about it again, but that incident opened the door to my wanting to find out the truth (as I, too, had never sexually abused any child while in the group), and led to the next 10 yrs of searching, and being really angry at God myself for allowing that to happen. After all, all I had ever wanted to do since I was a little girl of about 12 was serve God!--and what had I gotten in exchange, but 8 years in a really weird cult, only to leave and stay in a very abusive marriage for another 13 years, and then to find out about my daughters abuse, not only by my brother, but possibly in the cult as well.
A few years ago, I came back to Him as I realized I was only inflicting more pain on myself by shutting Him out, as HE is the true Healer...not the God you were taught in TF, but the one who created you in spite of all of your parents mistakes and TF's mistakes and who TRULY loves you and wants to be a part of your life. He is the one who helped me to finally forgive my daughter's perpertrator and also, to forgive myself (which is sometimes the hardest thing to do) and He is the one who is restoring the relationships that had been broken because of all the bitterness I had towards my OWN parents for not having raised me to have better critical thinking skills, to have better boundaries, and for not standing by me and my daughter against my brother in her abuse...etc. etc, etc...Don't get me wrong, even though I have forgiven my brother, I do not "hang out" with him, nor do I think I have to. I have learned what it means to have healthy boundaries in the process and I do not subject myself to people who I think could potenitially hurt me or my children anymore. But, get this, I DO pray for him, as well as my sister, who is still in the group and was one of those who said, "You just need to get over it and move on"...poor sis, what can you say now to all these allegations by the SGA's...will you continue to say the same thing? I pray not.
I am glad to know that many of you are coming out with your stories and I, like the other FGA's, pray that more will come forth with what you need to hear. God bless you, Kenaz and you, too, LTN...I am very proud of you! Your humility and brokeness are evident...and well-appreciated, I'm sure.
I went to visit my daughter and grandson, who live in Hawaii, this past summer and before leaving, I tearfully asked her, "Do you forgive me?" and she tearfully replied, "Yes", and I thank God for that! That is the beginning of healing in any relationship. ex-Tema Hart
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| | | | | From another FG
Friday, January 28, 2005, 00:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
I so wholeheartly agree. I also offer my apologies to you all. Just being a part of the first generation was crime enough. I should have left years ago (like right after I joined.) But that "idealistic" hope of making a better world got the better of me, and I don't know why or how I was blinded for so long to the evil and perversion of the cult. I know that in recent years I hung on, hoping to help kids and raise the education/socialization level, but alas, there are so many adults who just want to do it TF way - sequestering their poor bored kids.
I was so very sad to read about the death of your brother, Jeremy, Sarah. Unspeakable tragedy. I remember watching him in awe as he rode around on his little bycyle at the tender age of 3. Incredible kid. I'm impressed with how much of your life you give to helping those who need you. Thank you for helping my niece of of the terrible situation she was in in Hawaii years ago, which I only recently learned about. I'm so glad you were there for her.
I have been astounded to read of the horrors that so many of you have gone through. Jules, at the age of 13, not thinking she would ever see her parents again! What a crime! How cruel! No hope of rescue. How imprisoned you must have felt. Not to mention the unconscionable mental and physical abuse you endured. I'm very impressed with how well you and your peers have come out of all that. I'm very thankful that you've created this web site - even though this may elicit comments that I shouldn't even be on it since it's for ex-SGA's, I do want to state my appreciation for it. You've done a great thing.
My best wishes are with you all. Indeed, with admiration, ex-Sarah
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| | From sarafina
Friday, January 28, 2005, 15:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thank you for remembering Jeremy, my brother. We must remember, we must never forget as they are not here to speak for themselves. Thank you for your kind words as well. I once had someone help me when I really needed it and the only repayment they asked for was that I do the same for someone if I was ever in the position to. I try to whenever I can.
Thank for your comment, and for taking the position to stand up for your children, I still hope that my own parents will come to this realization as well, and acknowledge that the damage done to their own minds after serving almost 30 in the family has greatly clouded their perception of the truth.
In saying this I mean no disrespect to my father he was a loving, and good dad, I was lucky to have such a father.Most of the things that happened to me were while I was away from my family. I only mean that when you believe in something so strongly, you've been taught and ingrained with this belief over so many years, it will also take years to undo the damage and influence it has over you. I am happy to hear that some of you have woken up and are beginning to clear your minds on the noncense(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from Haunted
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 12:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
You can also view it online at http://www.real.com/partners/abcnews/
(reply to this comment)
| From banal_commentator
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 20:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think an anti-cult documentary should be made, so we can see if any networks would air it. I just watched this short ABC clip; while extremely disturbing, it didnt even come close to show how weird "TF" really is. There is stuff going on now, that is even more stupid and gross. Like "Loving Jesus" "Law of Love" "Go for Gold" "The Keys" and whatnot. Sexual abuse is the most attention grabbing, but there is so much other shit that they did as well that is just as disgusting. Much thanks and admiration to those who spoke out on TV, rather then sitting at home rationalizing that the cult didnt really have that bad an effect on them. (reply to this comment) |
| | From conan
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 20:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
There is a documentary being made by an ex-member with dozens of interviews of other ex-members. Its exclusive purpose is to expose and humiliate TF and hope to force some kind of action from them. It will potentially be released on HBO. There is a greater excitement over this project now (naturally) and as such there is a feeling that it should be finished in the next few months. (reply to this comment) |
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