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from Randi Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 01:26 (Agree/Disagree?) You have my sympathy. Sounds like an earth shattering experience. I admire you for throwing him out. You're a good, strong and vigilant mother and you did the right thing especially in protective respect of your daughter and of yourself. (some of us would have been very lucky to have a mom like you!) Perhaps it was an accident...there is that possibility. I mean that maybe he was downloading porn and unwanted material came along...I dont know...but it is WAY better to be safe than sorry!!! Not all first generation members were active child abusers...But they were all vicariously involved in it one way or another. It was promoted by the leadership... and many children were abused. Perhaps someone here knows him. I would alert the athorities or child protective services. If it gives you some peace of mind, I would also have an IT perfessional or whatever investigate. (Perhaps there is a way to determine what he was "searching" for.) If this guy is into child porn...he most certainly should be apprehended. This situation is every mom's worst nightmare. Chills (reply to this comment)

from just a thought Monday, March 06, 2006 - 14:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Good for you. Protecting your daughter was your 1st priority, and you realized that. (reply to this comment)

from just a thought Monday, March 06, 2006 - 14:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Good for you. Protecting your daughter was your 1st priority, and you realized that. (reply to this comment)

from trader Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 17:22 (Agree/Disagree?) JUST READING SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS.JULES YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MARK ZERO TOLERANCE FOR CHILD SEX OFFENDERS.I DONT KNOW WHY ANYONE WOULD THINK ANY LESS.YOU AS AN ADULT KNOW IT IS WRONG THIS PRESS TV/PAPERS /MAGAZINES, EVERY DAY EVERY WAY WE HERE THAT CHILD SEX IS WRONG WE ALL KNOW THE AGE OF CONSENT IS AT LEAST 16 YEARS SO WHY EVEN GIVE THESE MONSTERS A CHANCE GOD KNOWS THEY NEVER GAVE THE CHILDREN THEY HURT A CHANCE. (reply to this comment)

from Anthony Friday, November 08, 2002 - 22:13 (Agree/Disagree?) What did he say when you confronted him with this? Regards, Anthony (reply to this comment)

from Ian Friday, November 08, 2002 - 11:55 (Agree/Disagree?) There is always the possibility that it ended up on the computer by accident, there would be easy ways to tell, unless the guy was very good at covering his "windows" tracks. However, it doesn't really matter. It's not for us to sort out, not when childrens lives are involved. I'm sure there are better ways of looking at this but it's kind of like this: If someone is driving a car directly towards you at high speeds..they might turn at the last minute, it's always a possibility. But you might want to get out of the way regardless. I'm not sure what kind of advice or thoughts you were hoping to get from us, but this is not really an "advice" issue. If you were not sure if the child was really 18 on a "barely legal" site, perhaps we could give advice. Seems like this wasn't the case. People who joined the Family of their own free will and stayed for any amount of time are guilty of child abuse, either directly or because they watched and did nothing. There are very few exceptions to that rule. I'm sorry you lost the love of your life but obviously there was more to his past than you were aware of. You should be proud of yourself for kicking him out, it shows strength, the kind of strength that most former family members did not have. That's my two cents worth, I'll send the bill later. "Another fine post by ian" (reply to this comment)

From clare Friday, November 22, 2002, 18:10 (Agree/Disagree?) Your absolutely right Ian, about everyone in that cult being a child abuser for doing nothing. (reply to this comment)

From Robert Friday, November 08, 2002, 13:28 (Agree/Disagree?) I only disagree with you on one point, Ian. That is that there are more than only "very few exceptions to that rule," when saying that all Family members who joined of their own free will are guilty of child abuse either directly or because they watched & did nothing. There were so many different kinds of situations. I won't try to get into any kind of estimation or probability issues -- of course it happened a lot, that's not my point -- I just think you're just a little too strong on that one point.(reply to this comment)

From michael Saturday, November 09, 2002, 15:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Robert I agree with your accessment , much more. And Ian, you would be correct if you were talking about anyone who saw the Davito letter, or any such type letters, or heard Deb's story,or saw, or was Aware of the abuse or so. When was Davito letter published. You can not group all years together easily like that. I left the f in feb, 1977 , I did not see any sex abuse, personally, just Brainwashing, so obviously the letters are later than I. I do Now know , it was all going on , from the beginning, even with Mo's own kids.(SECRETLY) This I must say, was not Known to all, in the beginning years. So I must ask? Are you speaking,of knowing of the molestation,by all,even in the beginning? Or by all, after a certain date,much later. Depending on your age, it could be your whole life. But it should be defined by a date in time,such as exposure to the knowing of such? I personally never saw anyone having sex, Not even I, till I left the family. Also I must say since leaving, until 3 months ago, when I typed in COG in yahoo search engine. That was when my eyes were widely Opened. To how Disusting, such a cult was I once belonged to. The first thing I read was Deb's story, I came Unglued, then all the other stories followed.I was not sexaully abused as many of you were, I'm Sad to hear that. But blame is to the Guilty dont you think? Michael(reply to this comment)

From Joey Monday, January 09, 2006, 04:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Man if you can't see that a life surrounded by abuse of all descriptions causes a small degree of scinicism then I dunno which rock you've been hiding under! If you left in '77 as a grown man then surely you're old enough to know that when the shoe fits wear it! Are you asking us, through our affliction of endless thought, and our lifelong struggle to be as close to normal as possible after such a horrendous experience to hand pick the direction of a throw away angry line? Use the maturity your years should have bestowed on you and read it for what it is instead of trying to clear your name.(reply to this comment)

From michael Saturday, November 09, 2002, 16:04 (Agree/Disagree?) I forgot to say also. HOW Anyone who could be in the f, knowing of the abuse, for the last many, many , years, I haven't figured that one out yet? Michael(reply to this comment)

From Eartha Monday, October 20, 2003, 21:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Well Michael, from my personal childhood experiences, growing up in Thailand, me and a lot of my female friends were targets for sexual abuse, especially those whose were born to thai National Mothers or Fathers. Our parents being thought as less, not as strong spiritually, or babes could never stand up to us, and becuae of not being fluent in the Englsih laguange and feeling extra week or inaddaquate in the Lord's service, always tried to listen and obey the TF shepherds, yeilding and condemning thier children along with the leaders, so that they would not have to parttake of the shame we borught on them for reporting lies that we were sexually abuses. Sound really screwed up , I know, but it's the reality I grow up with. all sexual abuse was a hush up, anono to talk about, and you were worst than the devil to even think of bringing up the subject. Guilt ruled, everybody felt guilty about nothing all the time and when there was something that they should have been feeling guilty about people well, it was lost in a sea of all the other guilts and confusion. (reply to this comment)

From born in TF in early 70's Saturday, November 09, 2002, 17:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Ha! Anyone here who was raised with Davidito as the model remember the Davidito book "or any such type letters" being some secret thing kept apart from the other lit? Uh, I don't think so. Not before the purges and persecution scares. So if we go with your criteria, anyone staying in after they were published is counted in. However, nobody in the Family was allowed to read Deb's story. I can see ya been out for awhile.(reply to this comment)

From Sara S. Saturday, November 09, 2002, 18:23 (Agree/Disagree?) No kidding-the Ditto Book was used as a guideline for childcare all throughout the Family. I remember having to read some of it when I was 11 because I was going to help take of a nursery group. (reply to this comment)

From Ian Friday, November 08, 2002, 21:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Disagree if you want. It's all over Family literature, so they either knew, or they couldn't read. Obviously being a little innocent would account for some but the innocence should have lifted the first time they looked thru the "Davidito Book". Ian (reply to this comment)

From celestej Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 14:46 (Agree/Disagree?) No adult was innocent in any way. Entirely aside from the sexual abuse that an adult may or may not have been aware of, need I remind all of you that forcing children to sell tapes and posters is considered child labor and is illegal in every modernized country? (reply to this comment)

From afflick Monday, March 06, 2006, 21:03 (Agree/Disagree?) Even if someone couldn't read, those things were highly illustrated so there is NO excuse.(reply to this comment)

from jr308 Friday, November 08, 2002 - 11:42 (Agree/Disagree?) These needs to be reported to the authority immediately as there are whole task force s set up to stop the exploitation of children when it comes to child pornography. It is a criminal offence just to be in possession of child pornographic material. If he was sending them out as well then that is distribution. Even federal law enforcement can become involved. This is a serious matter you need to contact your local police department immediately (reply to this comment)

from Anonymous Former Porn Collector Friday, November 08, 2002 - 10:28 (Agree/Disagree?) I wonder how much total porn was on the computer that was not child porn? Was there any "normal" porn mixed in? There are many ways for images to end up on a computer that are not necessarily intentional. I have used programs that will download random porn all night from bulletin boards, and when I check the next day, I have to sift through and delete the stuff I don't like (usualy most of it). I certainly hope no one ever judges me based on the kind of porn that has occasionally and temporarily been on my computer, gay porn, animal porn, scat, BDSM, and yes, some child porn, all of which I deleted swiftly and as completely as possible. If, however you feel that the presence of this child porn on your computer was in any way intentional, you should definitely contact the authorities immediately since possesing such images is highly illegal in most countries and you yourself could be incriminated even if you think you have deleted the offending material. Congrats on dumping the guy though, if he was foolish enough to put you and your child in that kind of danger and if he thought you were too stupid to find his porn on your own computer, then you did the right thing regardless ofwhat his intentions may have been. Acceptable conduct changes radically when there are children present in a given situation, and anyone who has been in the Family should be well aware of this. As for myself, let it be known that I have found more productive uses for my time and my sexual energy and there is now no porn of any kind on any of my computers. (seriously) (reply to this comment)

From Jules Friday, November 08, 2002, 11:19 (Agree/Disagree?) I could not disagree with you more. We need ZERO tolerance for abuse of children. From what this woman has said, the man in question recently left the Family. He was an adult member of a group that produced child pornography and wrote that molesting children was wonderful when done "in love". People like this have used up all their chances and had much more "benefit of the doubt" then they ever deserved. They are not normal people. Why on earth would any of our generation, who saw and experienced this first hand, ever stop to question "maybe they didn’t really mean to be getting off to images of girls 6 – 10 years old being raped and molested". What the hell? I personally have absolutely no tolerance for this. If there is even a question of inappropriate behavior or abuse, you have to act immediately. Talk to some of the young women who as children were trapped in homes where men routinely used them as sex objects. This happened—even the Family has admitted it. Ask us what it was like to lie at night curled up as small as possible, wishing there was just one adult who cared and could stop what was happening, or cry in the shower feeling so ashamed and dirty that you could never be clean again. Ask us what it feels like to have your own parents and people who should protect you tell you that you brought this on yourself, or punish you for lying or "misunderstanding love and encouragement". Ask what it’s like to have the wives of men abusing you punish you for having a "seducing spirit", or what it’s like, when other adults finally realize that you are being sexually abused, consider you "a sexually active child" and "asking for it" and want to get in on the action. Children need to be protected from harm, and that means doing something about abuse. We of all people should understand this. The people who did these things are still members of the family, or are now members of society. Some are counsellors, church leaders, parents and foster parents. They still have access to children and they still think they got away and continue to get away with what they did to us. There’s no choice here. It’s not deciding to "destroy a family" or a "good man". The abuser already made that decision themselves. (reply to this comment)

From yase Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 14:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I totally agree with you. If they did it in the past they'll do it again. I myself was molested in tf as a child and the thought of these people going on and living "their normal lives" is so disturbing . How many other children have they done this to- inthe name of god and love? (reply to this comment)

From ack Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 15:39 (Agree/Disagree?) That is such a point of contention for them. They claim none of these things happen anymore. Serial rapists do not stop raping. When a person has a sexual preference nothing can change it short of desexualizing surgery. (And if it's a power issue even that falls short). To claim that it won't happen because they don't condone it is an outright lie. Regardless, what they will do matters less than what they have already done. The problem is getting proof.(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Sunday, February 15, 2004, 15:59 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm confused Jules. You say "I could not disagree with you more. We need ZERO tolerance." Anonymous former porn collector wasn't requesting tolerance, he was suggesting giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. Do you also think we should have "ZERO tolerance" for murderers, and lock them up immediatly upon suspicion? I don't know what it's like in Canada, but in the United States, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. That being said, I highly doubt that the porn on the computer got there by accident, at least not in this case. But, AFPC makes a good point - that it would be really unfair to be judged for something that ended up on your computer by accident.(reply to this comment)

From Jules Monday, February 16, 2004, 10:29 (Agree/Disagree?) If you found detailed descriptions of how to build a bomb or a biological weapon on the computer of a person who had spent decades in a terrorist organization, would you want to give them the benefit of the doubt? All those FG adults who spent years in the Family while endorsing Berg's writings have already proven a predisposition for abuse. We don't get to decide who is guilty and who is innocent, which is what you are suggesting. It is our responsiblity to report suspected abuse and let the courts and law enforcement investigate. (reply to this comment)

from Jules Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:23 (Agree/Disagree?) You need to turn this information over to the police. We can tell you that many men (and women) did molest and hurt children in the Family, and pedophiles do not stop their behaviour. This man may have molested children in the Family, and may still be abusing children now. There are many ways pedophiles can gain access to victims, and they need to be removed from society to prevent them from harming more children. The really insidious thing about abuse in the Family is that the perpetrators subscribed to the NAMBLA philosophy of "if it's consensual then it's love and not abuse". I personally do not believe that adults who sexually molested children thought they were doing nothing wrong, but when confronted, they will defend themselves with this rationale. Where this is really damaging is to the children hurt by abusers, who can actually believe the adult abusing them does love them. They can blame themselves and even defend the adults. You can see this dynamic right here on this site. Was your daughter close to this man? What was her reaction to the relationship being ended? If there was abuse, she may not be comfortable talking about it with you, and may need access to counselling, and a neutral person to talk to. Family abusers for the most part were not sexually violent, but the men in particular felt they had a right to satisfy any sexual urge they had. Karen Zerby, the current leader of the Family explained her opinion on sexual molestation in 1993 documents that can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/magicgreenshirt/summitjewels.htm This is the whole point of what we are talking about with actually doing something about abusers. It's not enough that they are not in the Family anymore. They need to be accountable for their actions. People who love you do not hurt you. (reply to this comment)

From xhrisl Friday, November 08, 2002, 02:17 (Agree/Disagree?) I strongly agree with you Jules, this woman should notify the Authorities imediately! It is incrediaby sad what has happened to her, yet in no way surprising that this man was a former member of TF, my only question is in regards to why he left his warm and nurturing enviroment (was he too perverted for even their tastes?). Personly, I think the manipulative basterd should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and that should be done post-haste.(reply to this comment)

from Hanna_Black Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:32 (Agree/Disagree?) There was a letter once, called "Child Brides" or something. It was a long time ago and Moses David talked about sex with a child being ok as long as "love is involved". People went overboard, and a lot of weirdos took it as an excuse to abuse and rape little girls. I won't get into details of what happened numerous times to me, but once I didn't want to have "cuddle time" with some naked old geezer, and they made me read "the girl who wouldn't". That at 7!!! To them it was normal that kids could have sex, 7 was considered preteen and 12 an adult. Later it all got banned, jsut don't know exactly when. Of course, with the charter no one is supposed to do that, and if they do, Mama and Peter pipe up, "but it is in the charter." I think the Family is a place where a lot of weirdos could do what they want and get away with it. Good that you sent the creep out of your house. Maybe he didn't harm your daughter, but if he has tendencies... you never know! (reply to this comment)

From NR Sunday, November 10, 2002, 04:18 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, I strongly agree with the zero tolerance policy of child-molestation, U should report it, he will go through due process (court), and an expert can determine if he downloaded the pix, or a bot did, and how long they've been there (to prove whether he chose to keep the child-porn), etc. The Family has, in recent years, decided to excommunicate members who have sexual relations with minors (assuming it's reported and they aren't friends w/ officers of TF), in response to a increased outside legal scrutiny. Of course this means that the rapists and abusers get to walk the streets and prey on other kids, he may have been one of those thrown out, and that would probably be the reason for it, if so. Please do report it, for other kid's sake, my sister was raped by my step-dad at age 11, U have no idea how it's affected her still to this day. (reply to this comment)