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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from MGP
Friday, December 06, 2002 - 12:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
I've noticed a trend with exer guys who have small personalities to build up their bodies. I find this discusting.
1) I've earned my muscles outside a GYM and am therefore twice thier strength.
2) I have mental superiority.
3) I don't look big and dumb and flashy.
(reply to this comment)
| from JoeH
Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 14:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
I for one am pretty irritated with all this slut-bashing. I use "slut" as a compliment, and don't understand why, if we (especially men) like sex so much, we have to go around encouraging women to "keep their legs closed." Let's all loosen up and have a good time! I salute all the sexually-liberated women with multiple-partners on this board, and encourage you to contact me if you're ever in the Pacific Northwest (of the US). Cheers!
(reply to this comment)
|  From From A guy
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 14:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
Why is it that women who enjoy the company of several men are derided as "sluts," but men who enjoy the company of many women are praised as "studs"? And often it is the women doing the name calling. Why the double standard? I agree with Joe.....what's wrong with safe, legal, protected, non-child producing sex with concenting adults?
Oh...and by the way...the strict definition of a whore is someone who gets paid to have sex. As far as I can tell, the people being refered to have recieved no monies...none at all....even when they should.
Something our fathers did not learn...when you have a child....you care for that child. It does not matter if you love the mother or not. The babies should not have to suffer.
From a childless guy
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| | from Jade
Monday, October 21, 2002 - 15:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
I sympathize with your story. Renata embarrased & insulted me on numerous occations. I am sorry you had to go through that. So many people were put in the position to oppress young people in the Family. Most of these couldn't handle it & went "power-crazy" so to speak. Despite the many times they are "put down" they always managed to get right back up there & oppress someone else.
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| from Anthony
Friday, August 09, 2002 - 20:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well it’s just too damn bad that I left Texas before I found out that Renata lives there (or did while I was there). I will never buy that insipid argument crap about the FGA’s , as Gee put it, “ What those of us who were tortured and abused by adults in the F. do not really like to admit is that many - THOUGH NOT ALL - of these adults were as brainwashed and abused as the rest of us.”
No need on my part to rehash the well known counter argument that they made the choice to join, while we were born into it.
My other argument is that these people gave the man (Berg) and his generals the power to continue. It is clear from Berg’s personal history that he suffered from an extreme case of self-loathing and no self-esteem, he seemed to have reconciled this once his cult got rolling. However, it is evident from his own writings that often had high degrees of relapses (which his alcoholism partly explains). Yet, he seemed to always bounce back. Why? Because both the powerful people like Renata and the lowly home members fuel his ego and allowed him to go on. “Oh dad, you really saved me from the system.” “If it weren’t for you dad...” “Truly thou art the man of God.” Blah, blah, blah.
If thousands of people tell you that you are the greatest, whether or not you believe it initially, chances are you eventually will. It was a reciprocal relationship.
It wasn’t enough for Renata to ruin our lives in France, she hooked-up with the top leader there (Enoch) and took her cruelty to Belgium as well.
The European leadership (at least the French) where behind the times on the new vision of cruelty in Teen Training. She had a chance to change things. So what if Berg lost his European following, they could’ve started their own offshoot. But no, as she told me “I’ve been training and dealing with your sort for four years now...”, she loved it, the same way Nero loved to watch his tar covered enemies burn as they lit up his Roman gardens while he rode his chariot in the nude (probably playing his harp). Ugh.
“I know that she did not mean anything that she did, and she didn't even realise (realize) what she was doing at the time.”
Ha. Now that’s a first, how about that? Poor dumb and mind-controlled Auntie Renata, sound like the Invasion of the Mind Snatchers. LOVL!!
Is she really sorry? Does she know about this site? If so, why hasn’t she issued a formal apology to all those she has abused emotionally?
As far as using legal names on this site, if we are talking about FGA’s, I doubt many of them would actually press charges of slander because it would bring all their festering filth into the forefront, they have a lot to fear. However, if we are talking about us SGA’s, then yes, I would advise caution when repeating stories, because we are the innocents.
Regards,
Anthony
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Gee
Friday, March 29, 2002 - 14:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
So, now that everyone has had their chance to bash my mother I would like to add a few words.
What those of us who were tortured and abused by adults in the F. do not really like to admit is that many - THOUGH NOT ALL - of these adults were as brainwashed and abused as the rest of us. I would also like to see severe harm done to several people; thoughts of castration and knives up peoples asses come to mind. However, I know through a long and difficult experience how brainwashed many of these people were. They sincerely thought in their minds that they were doing what God wanted them to do, and they had no idea of the mental anguish they caused people. They were only puppets. I'm not saying that all of these people were; there were those who knew what they were doing, and they should be held accountable.
However, my mother is horrified at what happened, the things she once believed in & the things she did - though the story of her forcing my sister to have sex with this person is not at all true. If one day the issue of what did happen sees fit to be reconciled it will be done by the parties involved.
My mother is still haunted with horrible memories just like we are - none of us can ever truly get over it. She has done better at trying to move on, for one she doesn't spend her time listening to F. gossip; she never looks at these websites so I don't think that any of you will be hearing anything from her personally. I for one will not be informing her of this little bashing that was done as I know that she did not mean anything that she did, and she didn't even realise what she was doing at the time. If she were to hash all this at this point in time; the pain would be too unbarable to handle. If anyone has the right to hate my mother it would be my sister and I. But, if she was the creepiest person you ever dealt with I would say you got off real easy. I'm not trying to downplay any harm done, but I would not like to know that I caused someone so much guilt for something that was done - not in their right state of mind - that this person felt so horrible that they took their own life. We all know people who have taken their lives over their guilt, but I don't think she did anything that bad that I would like to have that hanging over my head. I think we've seen enough tradgedy. She's sorry, get over it.
I'm sure she would apologise to anyone if she had the chance, but as much as she would die to change the past; she can't take any of it back. Maybe a better way to try and get an apology from someone who feels great remorse and anguish over the past, is to try and understand where they are coming from, especially since this person is no longer even affilated with the F. or any religion for that matter. If she was still in, or was still sympathic to the F. that would be another story, but that's not the case.
So, now that all of my demons are flooding in, I will be off to let it out in a good fashion - moshpit style. It works wonders - some of you should try it!
BTW - If I were you I would not be using peoples legal names over the internet. You can be sued for slander in this country.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From Rock
Saturday, August 10, 2002, 03:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hi Gee!
Hearing you speak about your Mom from your heart is sad and I feel for your view as a fellow person. It must be hard for you to sort it all out at times.
As an FG I feel somewhat different about it. (You can read my post regarding my family history in Generations under Heartbreak by Rocky.)
I think it is absoultely necessary for all of us Fg's to apologize for what we did.
I believe that Anthony is right in his views. We as the early members enabled Berg to become powerful to the point he corrupted our souls with his doctrines.
As a result we abandoned our responsibilities as individuals, parents and moral human beings. If we had have done the right thing as a collective group and sacked Berg's act, the hell that many thousnads of Sg's experienced would not have happened.
I left in 83 after reading the Davidito book. Over the years I have learned that I must put aside my own personal sorrow about Berg and his pedophilia and be accountable for my own failure to act against him sooner.
It is not enough for former FG leadership to be sorry, say nothing and move on like it did not happen. That will not bring validation to those that suffered and it will not help your Mom to recover herself.
I really feel it is right and just for your Mom to apologize and accept the censure from those she offended. I know the process is painful to do but it is the only way to even begin to address the mess that we as FG's passed on to you all.
Sincerely, Rocky(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From geo
Monday, April 01, 2002, 12:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
ill agree with you that there was abuse at all levels in the family and many people who where responsible for abuse did probably believe they were helping the people they where abusing. i recall that at times your mother seemed very sincere in her attempts to rehabilitate "troubled teens". however, having said that, i have to say that i have very little sympathy for people who use their suffering as an excuse to cause suffering in others. the excuse i hear most often from first generation ex-members is that they were under the groups control and therefore werent responsible for their actions. this i refuse believe. first with the exception of actual physical restraint or torture i believe, especialy as an adult, we always have the ability choose how we act and to refuse to do things that will have negative effects on others. while i believe one can let themsleves be controled in such a way that they are not choosing to think responsibly for themsleves, they still made the choice at one point to let their lives be controlled in that way and still must take responsibility for the outcome of that decision.
from personal experience, the abuse i recieved, instead of forcing me to be more abusive to others had the opposite effect, in that, i am usually extremely careful not to hurt other people. i felt the same way while i was in the family and still believed in family doctrine.
excuses like this remind me of the story where a man is asked why he is an alchoholic and he replies "becuase my father was an alchohlic". but when his brother is asked why he never touches alchohal he has the exact same response.
maybe i am not explianing my feelings about this very well, i think what i am trying to say is that while we have almost no control over how other people will treat us or abuse us, we always have control over how we will treat others regardless of what persuasion or encouregment we recieve to do otherwise, and even more so when we have felt the effects of that abuse oursleves. for these reasons i cant easily sympathise with people who make those excuses. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Gee
Monday, April 01, 2002, 13:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
My point - don't lump the still denying murderous Generals in with the repentant lieutenant who had the job of throwing the switch. They both have to do their time, but they are not treated equally. - understand that and you will understand what I am saying. If you give the General - who gave the orders - and the lieutenant - who had to carry out the orders - the same amount of punishment, it undermines the punishment given to the General. She may have been part of the enemy at one point but she is not anymore.
My mother has never made excuses. I made them from observations that I saw. Not because she's my mom. If anyone has righteous cause to hate her it would be me. However you cannot shoot the lieutenant for the general's command. They are still held accountable and punished, but not to the same degree.
My mother has never tried to use the alliby that she was brainwashed - but, she was! She joined when she was a child. When she did finally start to see things she was treated just as badly as we were. They dumped her out with the trash when they felt they had no more use for her. Just like they did with us.
It took her a full year of spending some "timeout" to come to the realization of things - spending time out from under the thumb was finally what it took to help her clear her head and make the decision to break all ties.
The fact of the matter is that we put prisoners out for parole when they show repentance for the crimes they have commited, have done a good part of their time - that is in magnitude with the crimes they have commited - and with the showing of good behavior.
Listen, if you still want to hate her I really could care less. I think if you met her again though, you might change your mind.
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| | From VFT
Tuesday, April 02, 2002, 10:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
i would like to meet her again and give her a chance...that was kinda the point of me starting this whole thing. but she did not have a general standing over her in osaka school telling her how to run the teen group. she was the general. like i said my entire teen life was under her cloud. no one ever knew why i was a trouble maker i just was. it started there where she was the general. i thought maybe i would hear from her again kinda the point of me splashing that dirty laundry. i've forgiven my parents for worse than what she did. maybe she would find some kind of closure in speaking to the ones she hurt, when she is ready. i had no idea when i wrote this first post that she was out. but i have wanted ever since i was 14 to have a place to voice my very bitter feelings towards her. i couldn't resist writing that even though i thought twice before i let it be sent. but it made me feel better somehow to let it out. to know that she is out now gives me a peace that i was not fucked up in the way that i felt. i wanted to love her. and she was ice cold. but i could see in her eyes total confusion. it was wrong of her to allow those things, she was the general in osaka. it was so much fun before she got there. it turned into a concentration camp afterwards. you have every right to defend your mother. i would not defend mine though. i do not regret writing that first post because now i know something i didn't. i am glad your mother has left. too bad she didn't leave back then and take us all with her. i would've gone. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Gee
Tuesday, April 02, 2002, 20:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
She wishes she had left a long time ago too...but...unfortunately you can't take it back. I'm not upset at anyone for bringing up their thoughts, we finally have the chance to think for ourselves and voicing our own opinions is the only way to work things out. The only thing I was distrubed by were a few people who just seemed to want to jump on the band wagon just for the heck of it - but not really having anything much else to say, like if she was how so. Sometimes we don't actually want things reconciled.
Just for your info she did have people to answer to, she had to answer to the HCS - the people who sent her to Osaka in the first place. Up there she wasn't the big guns at all. She was only doing what they told her to do. True, she didn't have to... I kind of remember Osaka getting worse after she left - then after that was when the deportations to Victor camps started happening. I was supposed to go but we got deported from Japan - lucky me. Don't fret I still got what was coming to me - a few years later though.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset at anyone for ragging; we all need to vent. Sometimes it's the only way to let out things that hurt that badly. I tell my son all the time - who is 5 - that it's fine if he gets mad and cusses at me as long as he's venting and not just calling someone names. Then we talk - he tells me he's mad at me for so and so and we work it out.
I'm not really sure who you are as it was a while back. But, if you want to talk and keep this more prvate you can e-mail me at fidget8@hotmail.com
It probably would help her to talk...well over margaritas would probably help. Where are you living now?
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| | from VWBabe
Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 17:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, Renata tortured us in Japan and then followed us to Europe where she was the teen shepherd in the teen home in France. I'm glad to hear her girls have left the family, she put them through a lot.
(reply to this comment)
| from Davejoe
Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 19:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
RENATA what a bitch. Yo I know this woman RENATA I cant start to tell you all the pain and suffering she brought to me and my brothers and sisters.I'd like to know what sister you're talking about that she had fuck that guy.
That's just like her to betray the teens asking for help.
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| From venus_fly_trap
Sunday, February 17, 2002, 15:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
i'd rather leave that alone. her daughter was not the one that was so horrible. but renata was evil. once i wanted so badly to make things right with "god" that i went to her and said that i didn't understand why i was so scared of her. i asked her to please help me not be that way. i was crying and all my insides were shaking and she sat there blank stare, cold and didn't say a word. i loved my elders like they were my parents, i loved her. and she hated me without cause or reason. looking back i can see that she was using me as her hurt toy. you know some people like to see others in pain. she enjoyed seeing me crying and begging for love and understanding. she was my first experience of many throughout my teens of hearing them tell me "we love you, that's why we do these things to you" love to me means "i hate you and will do everything that i can to keep you confused, feeling inferior, scared and alone." i had an ucler at 14 because of her. I knew when night time came that meant a teen meeting down stairs. for me it meant another public exposure. dinner was before sundown, my food never digested. i liked to beat the ulcer by barfing instead. thanks renata i've been bulimic ever since....xoxoxo(reply to this comment) |
| | from JJ
Thursday, January 31, 2002 - 06:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
[removed by request of author]
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Deb
Wednesday, December 04, 2002, 07:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
You ARE very pretty, and I know a lot of people think so. But I would REALLY appreciate if we could get off this "Debbie is a whore" topic. It's old.
But anyone who has a problem with me enough to feel free to post stuff like that here, then grow some conjones, for godssake's, and send me an email! It's nothing to hide behind an anonymous name and be brave.(reply to this comment) |
| | From beme
Monday, February 18, 2002, 08:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Maybe we should all just calm down about the whole situation. I personally know both Jamie and SOUGLY and neither are either Ugly or dick's so lets all just keep calm and try to be mature about the whole thing.
I am sure that all have valid points and no one is necessarily going to see eye to eye in a situation like this.
But I would like to warn you that if you publicly insult Jamie once more than you will have some reckoning to do, and I don't mean on this chatboard.
Cheers.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Ian
Wednesday, December 04, 2002, 11:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, now they've got your first name, email, and the country you live in. That's pretty fucking specific. You wouldn't happen to be "short" and "asian looking" would you? It might make it easier to pick you out of a crowd while wandering thru Korea.
So.....exactly what is "reckoning" and how do you go about it.
Please tell me your not walking around with an overcoat and a sword thinking your immortal.
"Another fine post by ian"
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Ian
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 12:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
Why in the fuck would I fly over to Korea to fight you? And where did I ever mention that I wanted to? It's not that I would back down if I had to, I'm just not much of a "hands on" type of guy, I'm really more of shooter. However, in recent years I have developed a a bad allergy to long and harsh prison sentences so I've made a special point not to go around shooting people or threatening to shoot people.
Now let's talk about your stupid fucking post.
First of all, it kind of goes against the psychology of threatening someone when you say “I’m such a bad ass, so why don’t you fly over here so I can kick your ass” (I’m assuming that a “reckoning” is something along those lines). Then you post your email, first name and the country you live in. Your post was begging for attention, oh yeah, someone did come and confirm that you would kick my ass and also gave your height (for your sake I hope that was feet and inches).
Second, I don’t fight people like you, I ignore them. Let’s put two of you in chat room and see how interesting it gets. Here’s an example:
Dumbass #1: I can kick your ass
Dumbass #2 No….I can kick YOUR ass
Dumbass #1 Well….um…..I said it first
Dumbass #2 So what…..I’ll double kick your ass.
Dumbass #1 I’ll triple kick yours
Dumbass #2 So fly over here, I want to kick your ass
Dumbass #1 No, YOU fly over HERE
Dumbass #2 I said it first
Dumbass #1 But….I thought it before you said it
Dumbass #2 I double thought it before you single thought it
It becomes apparent at this point why I don’t have many “guy” friends, they’re just so fucking ignorant.
If you truly are the kickboxing expert that your “dude” friend claims you are then you must be pretty damn limber and flexible, so if I ever do happen to meet you and you still have your stupid fucking attitude why don’t you save me some time and kick yourself in the head. Or you can chase me around while I’m dialing 911 on my cell phone (I’m such a bad ass).
Anyway…..what started all this? Oh yeah, I think you were defending your sisters virginity, right? Good work.
By the way, my name is Ian, I live in the states, and my email is ianalbitz@hotmail.com. So if you want to fly over here (just pick a random airport) maybe we can hook up and compare jockstraps or mainline testosterone and beat our chests.
“Another fine post by ian”
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Christopher
Wednesday, December 11, 2002, 08:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
To Jules:
Jules, Pls remove all my comments and also my brother(JJ's) comments. I do not want to bring anymore attention to this subject. It is over and I have said my peice. I do admit that what I have said has been a little harsh, but what I have said barely compares to what some people have said about my sister and my family.
To Dude:
Thx for the support bro, wish I could remember who you are. My sis says I lived with you when I was younger. Oh well, Hope to see ya sometime in the future. Cheers
I also apologize for my fowl language.
Well, G'night all. Merry Christmas(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Crista
Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 10:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm don't know how you feel about using peoples names on this board, but I just want to know if I know Renata. Does she have daughter's named Anthea and Regina?
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from auty
Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 16:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ahhh . . .the John PI scenario! I had to go the the HCS Victor Camp with him as a shepherd . . .can you imagine all the fondling the beaten down girls got from that man?
Also Ricky and Elaine, not sexual abuse but a lot of violent abuse . . .not to mention Faithy (David Berg's daughter) and Martin (Ricky's Brother). Oh My, my list is getting longer too!
(reply to this comment)
| From EyesWideShut
Monday, August 20, 2001, 02:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
I can't say I ever experienced anything of this sort with Martin O (Ricky's brother), he always seemed circumspect in that way. Ricky and Elaine favored me so I can concieve that perhaps dubious things went on that I didn't know about, but I don't recall any stories of them being involved in serious physical abuse. Possibly condoning severe punishment tactics, yes, but most adults I lived under or with did the same. There was a small but shocking incident between Ricky and I later on when I was older, but in comparison to other abuse I went through, it was minor. Honestly, I feel for them. I seem to be among the few. Not to demean your feelings, Auty, just a personal interjection.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Deb
Friday, August 24, 2001, 04:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
I think Elaine scared the crap out of a lot of people. She was always riding my ass about something or other and making sure the other sheps did too. I saw her recently in Texas (she was visiting her daughter) and she was a broken woman. Karma, I'm telling you. Tho she did apologize to me...wonder what that's all about?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Bella
Monday, November 25, 2002, 20:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
Where in the world do you get off calling Debbie that?! I've known her for years and she is FAR from what you have labeled her (I cannot even say the word it is so offensive)! If you hate Debbie so much, then perhaps you should put your name on your posts, and battle it out fairly -- your hiding behind a label is a sign of a true coward!
Debbie is one of the most kind, intelligent, FUNNY, witty, beautiful, courageous women I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. My life both in and out of the family has been enriched because she has been in it. She is a true and honest friend, who would do anything for someone she loves. You obviously do not know her, because any one who does, would never speak of her the way you have shamefully done! You're pathetic!
And Debs, I know you're reading this -- I can't wait to see you at my wedding! We are going to party the night away girlfriend! ;-)(reply to this comment) |
| | From Deb
Wednesday, December 04, 2002, 08:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Bella, I just read these comments and can't believe this is all coming up again!
Thank you, though, for being a true friend and "sticking up" for me. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
Anyway, yes, I will be at your wedding because you're the best--and because, at least according to these people, I'm such a slut I have to try and do Mike, right? ;)(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From sarafina
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 01:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok heres what was really going on (Ok I got a cover story for all of us) It was all Daniels fault! All those good apple martini's he made us. By the time we were done we were all squinting at each other that you couldn't tell who was making eyes at who. Remember we all started drinking at about 12 noon and the Keg was done at 11pm so from then it was all "hard stuff" Thats when all the "eyes" were being made..lol(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Furious
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 04:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
Claire, of course your brother owes Deb something! This is the REAL world we're in, and in the real world men have only ONE LEGAL RESPONSABILITY when they impregnate a woman.....
To pay child support! He never has to talk to the mother or see the child, which might be his choice if he's an ass. But he is obligated by law to provide child support.
Don't make uneducated comments like, "They don't owe you anything!" Since you're living in the UK, and have roots in the US, you should know the laws regarding child support there. Jamie lives in the US, and although he's married and has other kids, he still has to pay for his one night stand!
Don't defend your brother if he's dodging the law! Rather encourage him to be an upstanding citizen.
And take one minute to reflect on all the shit you've flung at Deb. Stop being so self centered Claire and put yourself in Debs' shoes. I don't know her or her situation, but from her profile she's a working/student single mom with out child support from the sperm doner.--Which makes her a cool chick!
Don't call another girl a whore when you've done your share of harloting yourself. We all know!
Stop being a selfish, selfcentered brat!
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| | From sougly
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 06:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well "Furious" I understand that you are probably friends with Debs, and so of course I understand your anger at me for voicing my opinion on this board.
Firstly I would like to start by apologising to Debs for the way I spoke, it was wrong and immature of me to say such derogatory things to her and Debs if you are reading this then I AM TERRIBLY SORRY!!
However if we could all take a moment and go back to the beginning of this feud, I only responded so harshly to Debs after she maliciously slagged off my ENTIRE family. I think that anyone in their right mind would have said something back in defence of their brothers and sisters, who for absolutely no reason were being slagged off on a PUBLIC web site - now this is not to condone the way I responded, but I think that I was "in the moment" and VERY ANGRY!!
I don't know who you are Furious but I would like to ask where you got the information that I have done "my share of whoring"? I have been dating the same guy since I was 16 and I am now married to him, so in my opinion or in the "whoring" category I don't think I qualify. - But of course this is a free country and you are entitled to your opinion, or one you have formed from hearing ROUMORS about me, which for some reason seemed so much fun for people to start, in the pathetic cult we refer to as TF, however “in the real world” it is pretty lame!!
I suppose I should not be too surprised that you have opted to call me a self-centred brat and actually, I probably am. The thing is that now I don't actually have to feel guilty about that, and I DON'T!!.
So in summary... Deb's if you are out there please except my apology and I do hope that you are fairing well with your children and getting all the support you need, to be honest I probably shouldn't be talking on this subject as I have not even spoken with my brother about it and don't know what has passed between the two of you in this regard. But please forgive my rudeness, I had no right to call you what I did.
Secondly to all you out there that feel the way about me that Furious does. I have no idea what you have heard about me or what your opinion is, but to be honest I DON’T CARE that is the beauty of now having a life…and not having to give a toss about nameless, faceless malicious people making up their minds about someone who they have never met.
Ok, I will sign off here.
Take Care.
Cheers.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Deb
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 08:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
Claire, thank you. And I want to apologise to you for any offense I may have caused by my off-the-cuff remark about your family's lack of communication skills, though it was not at all meant to be malicious.
I honestly don't know if I can say "I forgive you" right now because you were pretty nasty. But I do acknowledge your apology and think it was big of you, especially when no one was holding a gun to your head.
Furious, Dude, and others who have been posting positive things here, thank you very much.
Now, I think we can finally call it quits on this boring (I'm sure) topic. (Thank you, God, for small favors...)(reply to this comment) |
| | From sougly
Friday, December 06, 2002, 09:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
Final Comment....
Debs, I don't expect you to forgive me in fact I don't think anyone does - I was a bitch and reacted far to strongly to something that was in no way as big of a deal as it became in my mind.
As a sign of "good will" I have asked Jules to take down all of my postings on this page with the exception of my apology to you and my reply to furious.
Hopefully this dreadful subject will never come up again.
Take care and have a wonderful X-mas!!
Clare.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Deb
Friday, December 06, 2002, 09:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
Maybe she could take the entire thread down since people are getting nasty again, including my well-meaning but not-yet-savvy-enough brother. Jules?
Clare, no one wants you to stop posting here because you've contributed some good posts (especially that "Valium" one--too funny!). So please reconsider.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to you too.
P.S. I'm sorry if you didn't want your named used. It's just that your picture is posted so...(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Jules
Friday, December 06, 2002, 11:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would be happier if these family feuds didn't take place publicly on-line on this site. However, if I remove this thread it would remove a lot of content that the authors have not requested be taken down, which so far I have tried to avoid doing.
Hopefully the "I've got bigger bits than you do" posturing from the guys will end soon, and we can all go back to more important issues like picking on Joe. (reply to this comment) |
| | From Furious
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 07:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
Claire, well done! I don't know Deb, or anything about her other than what I've read on this site. I just couldn't sit by and read what you'd said to her.
I commend you on your apology to Deb.
I did not base my comments on rumors.--I knew you quite well.
But by "world standards", we were all sluts, whores and pimps. All of us (with a few exceptions) did our share in TF. But that was all we knew and it was the norm to have random dates, make out with multiple partners, go to bed with people we'd just met (at a fellowship?), etc. So I don't think any of us has the right to call the other a slut. It wasn't considered sluttish when we did it. That was our life. Since there wasn't much other stuff to do for fun, we did the only thing that was promoted.
And having said this, I would never had called your past actions "harloting" if it wasn't for the malicious things you called Deb. You were just as active as the other Family girls. Some girls just got unlucky and got pg. Those who didn't should count their blessings, not point their finger at those who did. And to help ease your worries, I never heard any rumors about you.
And like you said, you have the right to be however you want. It's great that you live your life the way you want. Even though you might be self-centered, you've got a great heart!--Always have! You're a great chick!
Cheers,
Furious (actually, not so furious any more) :-)(reply to this comment) |
| | From sougly
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 12:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
Great to hear that you are now Furious converted to "not so furious anymore".
Now that I have your approval, do you think it would be prudent for me to know who you are, seeing as you know who I am and felt free to use my REAL name all over this public web site, as did everyone else involved in this little saga.
Just because you say you "knew me quite well" that would have either had to be when I was in Japan from the age of 6-13 or in Europe from the age of 13-16 (in family homes) so unless I knew you here in England, recently having already been married, I just can't understand your reasoning in saying that "I was just as active as the other Family girls" as I would have only been a youngster at the time.
Anyhooo, I have no issue, just can't think for the life of me who you are.
You don't have to reply to me publicly if you don't want to - but please send me an email or something....???
To all the rest, I don't think that I will be coming on this website anymore, so good luck to all of you and I hope you all find happiness with your new lives.
Cheers.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Deb
Thursday, January 31, 2002, 02:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
Okay, back up a sec, if you're going to publicly call me a slut, then I think I have a right to know who you are! I realise that I had previously written my side only but I don't think you're in any position to be "shouting" at me on this message board, nor do you know the entire story either. So fling all the insults you want, I'm not going to take offense (sorry, you struck out there) but at least have to guts to do it to my face. Also, this all happened IN the Family where having sex with "unavailable men" (as you put it) was the norm and I was by no means the only one doing it. I'm not proud of what I did, but I'm not going to cower from you either. And just a question: How would having sex with Jamie one time make me a slut? Or do you have a documented history of my sex life and can therefore, not only once, but twice, so boldly accuse me of being that? Anyway, enough said here.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From nameless
Thursday, January 24, 2002, 09:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would like to know as well how you "Debs" can generalise about a whole family in such a way. I mean if you want to point out perverts how about yourself for carrying on with an older man and then having a child with his son!!! I'm sorry you belong on Jerry Springer. Stop blaming other people for your own problems and get on with your sad life.
I personally know many of the "Perfilios" (they do have names you know) and can assure you they seem a whole lot more balanced than you come accross to be.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Auty
Monday, November 25, 2002, 23:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, how confusing is this? Firstly we cry "an older man raped me . . ." and now you're saying "you deserved it because you spread your legs?" You're blaming her . . .and she was a teenager! You moron! I know many of the Perfilios & ya know, they're not bad folk, except perhaps their father who sexually abused one of my best friends. . . but hey, that's a whole other story . . .isn't it?
Legally Deb can get child support, so if Jamie thinks this was some kind of "accident" and the fault should be placed on Deb, sorry, it takes two to tango here. I'm sure the court would see things this way as well. So how about ya just keep your little immature "nameless" mouth shut.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From JoeH
Wednesday, December 04, 2002, 17:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
from my limited understanding of how women think, I'm going to venture a theory that all this Debbie bashing is motivated by jealousy. You both seem to have an apparent fondness for Mike or whatever this guy is who got the "dumb bitch" pregnant. Shouldn't he be partially responsible? Especially if she's as dumb as you say? If the man of your dreams gets it on with someone else, he's responsible for any children that may result, not an innocent victim of some "bitch who can't keep her legs shut." (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Furious
Thursday, December 05, 2002, 03:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
Any man (or boy) who does not financially support a child he fathered is the lowest form of scum! It doesn't matter HOW the pregnancy came about, and it doesn't matter what status the man or woman is (married or not), HE SHOULD ALWAYS PAY CHILD SUPPORT! This is the law in every civilized country!
A one night stand resulting in a child is the man's responsibility just as much as the mother who ends up parenting the child for the rest of her life. She sure pays for that one deed. But how does he pay? Men who do not face up to their share of the responsibility (financially?!?!?) are BASTARDS!--At least they created one!
One of my biggest beefs with The Family is the fucked up "morals" they instill when it comes to promiscuous sex and then not taking the responsibility. So many of you young men have gotten girls pregnant and then taken off! She has to raise that kid for the rest of her life and struggle financially cause she's paying for YOUR SPERM! That is just not right!
The "real world" makes boys like you pay for your irresponsible one night stand! And now that you're not in the Family any more, you should come out from behind your Mama's skirt and dish out the child support you owe the mother of your child! Not only is it the "right" thing to do, it's the law!
Try talking to a "systemize" who's fathered children out of wedlock. They'll tell you how it works. It doesn't matter how the insemination came about, even if it was a drunken one night stand with an ugly stranger, you still have to dish out child support for the next 16-18 years.
Getting girls pregnant and not paying child support is a Family thing. Wake up! You're in the real world now!--Where men take their share of the responsibility.
Family girls (ex) are PUSH OVER when it comes to single mom/child support issues! Girls, wake up! Do the right thing, and demand that he pays! Take him to court if he doesn't! You owe it to your kid/so to be able to provide their needs, and it can be quite hard if you're trying on your own. You're not being a bitch by demanding child support, you're only doing what's NORMAL!
Wake up and smell the humos!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From Wait a Minute!
Monday, November 25, 2002, 20:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
First off, birth control was more or less forbidden in the cult. Secondly, if Deb is to blame for "spreading her legs", isn't Jamie to blame for parting them?
I don't know either Deb or Jamie, but men need to take responsibilty for their semen. Jamie could have used a condom, even if Deb wasn't smart enough to use birth control herself. That's NO excuse.
To paraphrase your quote:
"If you can't keep your Dick holstered don't bitch about supporting what inevitably comes out. GOT IT?" (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from Jules
Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 22:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
FYI, Renata currently lives in Texas. She has left the Family, as have all her children.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | From Jules
Saturday, February 16, 2002, 16:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hi Dave Joe,
I personally don't have their contact info, but Regina (Ruthie) is in Texas, last I heard. Some of the other young people here are too, and they might know how to get in touch with Renata. She is apparently a very different person now, and sorry for a lot of the things she did to children in her care, so that's something anyways.
Jules(reply to this comment) |
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