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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Ralph Crayon
Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 13:49
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where the fuck did the Phil slown article go????????????
(reply to this comment)
| from frisbee
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 21:25
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Im sorry to say this but one day when he faces God he is going to have some explaining to do and i think he's going to be mighty surprised when god sends him to hell for what he did.
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| from frisbee
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 21:25
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Im sorry to say this but one day when he faces God he is going to have some explaining to do and i think he's going to be mighty surprised when god sends him to hell for what he did.
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| from chokehold
Friday, March 26, 2004 - 21:02
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"Family Care Foundation is proud to assist the Salazars in their noble venture"
http://www.familycare.org/news/fromtheheart
(reply to this comment)
| from AUS
Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 01:36
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AHHHH!!!!!!!!! KILL!!!!!!
i dunno about anyone else, maybe i'm just naturally angry...
but reading this make me mad...no...errr....FURIOUS!!! i say you should have gone to the FBI, hell, maybe u could have used the 5k to hire a hit man....GOD DAMM THOSE SICK F___KS....
(reply to this comment)
| | | |  From Vicky
Tuesday, July 22, 2003, 07:06
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There are NO WORDS! No words could possibly express the pain I feel on behalf of all those who have lived through these experiences. It absolutely cuts me up inside and makes me angry to the point of despair.
HOW DARE THEY (Fam. Leadership) pass the buck on this issue when they know full well that the lives of countless children have been effectively ruined by these despicable acts. How can they possibly sleep at night? My only consolation is the hope that they will suffer in lifetimes to come - Ages upon ages of suffering and torture would never be enough to make up for the lives they have stolen.
I continue to hope against hope that each of those who have been damaged through abuse will at some point be able to forget, to live their lives free from the pain and anguish. They are braver than any of us will ever be.(reply to this comment) |
| | from miriam
Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 21:32
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hello everyone, I just finished the article. Thank you kristi for being my voice in past and present. I've changed alot since that time in my life. The anger I use to feel has turned to a kind of pitty;pitty for thier enternal souls. For a group that focuses there every waking moment to trying to make there past life perfect,they sure are going to get a shock to see a flaming pit instead of a heavenly gate. hahaha.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from somebody
Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
WOW this is some pretty heavy shit.... not to doubt you or anything but understand... it's only natural... I would like to see that documented proof you said you could get.... I love documented proof. I will check this web site soon and hope you can tell me where to find it.... tx!
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| from UKCathy
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 07:21
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My God, that's so terrible.
Yes, I can believe that happened. It seems to me that the Family are only concerned about themselves, their "positive" image (which is a complete lie of course!) and that it is more important to cover up their dreadful crimes, than it is to take care of the victims and let the real truth be known.
If we as ex-members and those who were on the receiving end of their crimes, don't stand up for what is right and true, then who will?
I've read too about other cults, and how they operate, and there are so many similarites like this. How they cover up their crimes, just because they've managed to blackmail a few top influential people into fighting for them. People who have been deceived by their facade of good works, or who have been FF'ed, and don't want their families to know about it, so have been blackmailed into helping.
No, this story doesn't surprise unfortunately. It is the same with all deception. They daren't let the real truth be uncovered.
(reply to this comment)
| from porceleindoll
Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 02:59
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I believe a class action would serve its purpose, as well as a media barrage.
The group in the past has been able to wriggle out of such cases by making the prosecutors or the ones bringing the case look like dopes or liars, and even in the past media storms that the group faced, they were able to get through them by turning the tables around and smearing their opponents' image. My husband was a media leader in this country, and he learned the tactics of turning the tables around on the opponent and even lied in some cases.
But too many of us have left the group, there are too many of us for the group to turn around and say, "Well, we always knew they were such and such, and actually, during their time in the group they were this and that.." as they have done to James Penn and Ed Priebe for example. They wouldn't be able to smear all of us, for goodness sakes, they would look really bad if they did. And I don't think they could pay us all off as they did Kristi and who knows who else?
I know what you're saying about upsetting lives and all, even with the project I'm doing, my husband made me sit down and think about the repercussions of putting out a book. Even if my name is the only legal name in it, it will have an effect on my family, my kids, possibly our work and lives. We have already felt the force of being connected to the group in the work environment, when my husband lost his good job through our past involvement with the Family and we were honest about it.
I am still determined to put out the book, and my intention is not to hurt anyone through it, but to tell the truth about our lives.
The group has allowed people like Jay, Newheart, and others I can name but won't, to commit crimes against children, even excomming a leader for just one day for crossing the line with a minor, and the group in their pride thinks that being shunned from the group is punishment in itself and hasn't turned them over to the authorities. This is another area it has broken the law in, not reporting a crime to the proper authorities, thinking they are a law in themselves and are above the law.
I wouldn't want to hurt your parents or siblings who are still in, they are good people, and there are many sincere people in the group still, but the leadership and the members are not taking seriously the fact that these things happened and they didn't handle it right and acknowledge it and take proper action to stop it. And they continue to deny that they have been convicted in a court of such crimes.
In the British case they were convicted, the judge as good as said, "It's happened, I believe it, I know it" but they weren't sentenced because the case wasn't an abuse case, it was a custody case.
If the group didn't cover up so much, if they would face problems and not try to put the blame on the children it happened to, like Auty was told, "Well, you were a flirty girl" thereby making her feel guilty for an adult male's actions toward her, if the group would have taken it seriously when it first started happening, and someone had the guts to tell Berg not to print his personal beliefs about sex and minors, things may be different now.
That's what pisses me off the most, is the lies, the cover up, my whole life's foundation was built on lies, and I am angry about it.
Sorry to ramble on the topic, I could continue, but will spare everyone the time.
Peace!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From Auty
Saturday, April 20, 2002, 17:55
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How about a book about our family? Hell, we have Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, Parents, Step-Parents, Children, Sisters, Brothers . . .The list goes on. Just one of their stories would be a book . . .can you imagine all of them? Plus, it would be easier to get information from immediate family then from a whole list of xer's. Just a thought! Love ya much!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | from Kristi
Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 01:47
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Hi my name is Kristi and that was my story. Here is the thing, I have been out of the family for about 10 years, I was born and raised in the Family and left when I got the shock of a life time and realized that what had been going on all these years wasn't "loving" but rather a violation. I was so shocked that I ran away from the home I was in. Not because I had been tortured and molested all my life but because I never knew they weren't supposed to be doing that. I went to different leaders on several occasions when I was still in the family, and specifically I went to the leaders after I found Jay with his hand up my little sister on the toilet, I went to leadership in Thailand, I went to leadership in Los Angeles, I went to leadership in the Montery Teen Combo, do you think it mattered. It wasn't the leadership that was abusing me it was the leadership who let it go on, and slaped my perpitrators wrist, if that, at times they did nothing at all except send me at the age of 8, 11, and 13 to confront my perpitrator. They wouldn't even go with me, I faced them alone only to be intimidated and humiliated by them once more.
The other thing I want to say is that I am no longer in the anger stage, and I know very well what you are talking about because I have definitly been there, no now I am in the I can't sit back and watch this happen because it makes me just as guilty stage. My brother who was 16 yrs old just committed suicide after the family had there fun with his life. I have 4 other brothers and sisters that are still in and I can't stand by and watch it happen to them.
I understand you have parents that you love and I am thank full that they didn't turn their back on you, but there are so many that are there and that have been devistated or will be devistated when they realize that they have been giving their dedication and loyalty to a pervert who used them to further his own cause and now two sick fucks have taken his place. I believe a court case would do one very positive thing for both us and those still in the process of leaving, it would validate and it would put the responsibility on the Family instead of on the victims shoulders. So many of us have had guilty consciouses about pointing the finger at these child molesters but here's the real deal, they wanted us to think it was ok that they did these things and then when they got caught they tore some pages out of a book and said "we've changed" Do you really think that after 20 years of indoctrination all it takes is saying ok don't read that any more and lets take those pages out. That is not taking responsibility, and I will tell you what I told the leadership that came to that court case, when some one is violated (especially a child) and you do nothing about it, that makes the victim beleive it wasn't wrong, and essentially that is what you are saying, if you don't say this is wrong and bad then what you are saying is that it is good. And with something like this that has the power to devistate lives by just saying it is wrong is not enough, the evil doers must be punished. Not out of some sort of revenge motive, but rather to validate that what they have done is wrong both for the victim and the offender.
By the way this court case happen 5 years ago and the charter was out and the Family had already "changed" or so they said, but they were still more than willing to harbor a child molester, and still are, because last I heard they just prayed over Jay and life went on and as far as I know they didn't ask him to leave or send him to jail or excommunicate him or anything, any punishment he got was having to settle the on the terms of our agrement, and give me a break, that was just me that was all I was capable of giving him as far as energy I couldn't waste any more time with Jay, but the Family told me things were so different now things like this don't go on and if they do then the family takes action, there was no action taken by the family against Jay and I know for a fact that my siblings were not and are not the only ones who were hurt by his sickness. And Jay wasn't the only one that came up in that court case either, he was just the only one on U.S. soil.
I guess what I am trying to say is that putting together a class action suite against the family would be for many more reasons than just revenge for those that have already left, it would be more for those that are still there and need protection. Because the Family hasn't changed they are still as sick as they ever were, and there sickness lies not just in encouraging these acts of violence against children but also not protecting the children and then fighting the children or SG's when they realize they have been wronged and lied to. Because lets face it most of us have given up and gotten past the abuse, it is the lies that still haunt us and confuse us. I have three sisters that have left and one brother who died trying. It was the confusion and guilt that they had planted that finally ate away what was left of him, and I can't stand by and watch it happen again.
I am not starting a class action suite because I have neither the financial means nor the stability to do so right now, however I am doing my best to get enough money together and my life stabilized enough to get the rest of my siblings out of there the best way I know how. I would never try to make them leave if they didn't want to but the communications that I have recieved from them have been those of calling for help. So I will do my best, and my suggestion to you who are thinking of starting a class action suite against the Family is that you sue not so much for your selves but rather for those that will be stumbling out lost and confused, set up a fund for education and therapy for those that will come after us. That is my hope, that we can give the second and third generation of children a fighting chance, even though some of us are still quite young ourselves.
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| | | | | | | | | | from EyesWideShut
Friday, April 19, 2002 - 20:08
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That's a story you can't read without having some kind of reaction.
There has been a lot of buzz about the possibility of a mass court case (is that what class action means?)in upcoming days, and I have been approached by a few people asking if I might be interested in joining the opposition if all this goes to trial.
I'm sure I'm not the only person that has been mulling over the pros and cons of going to court. To be perfectly frank, a year ago I would have been game. That was during my anger period where I felt like just a little justice would make things all better. But as they say, the law is only the shadow of justice, and taking the Group to court doesn't guarantee retribution. But what it does guarantee is a lot of unnecessary worry and heartache for a lot of people, including us. There is a good chance that regardless of whether or not we win, the defense will make us look very bad or stupid, at least. That has been their tactic in the past, to slander and bring up all kinds of past shit--true or false.
I have found that there is not a lot of pity among the general populace for people that wallow in their past hurts. Let's face it, there are a whole lot of people that had it worse than most of us. Maybe I'm slowly forgetting the intensity of the indignation, yet I feel more each day that despite all that crap, pretty much every one of us is showing that the right decisions can help us take back our lives and see the ironic "good" in our collective "past".
I'm not defending the perverts by any means. I have my own stories. And although they seemed dreadful to me, I'm beginning to think that maybe I didn't have it so bad. I have been able to recognise the long term effects and begin the healing process, however there are others that are still hurting deeply from what was done to them and their siblings, parents, and lives, and see no end in sight.
Although I might not feel that my particular case is worth dredging up and dragging to court, I'm starting to think that there are a lot of people out there who were seriously and irreparably wronged. And that although the men that abused me were perverted, there seem to be some men, and the women that stood by silently, that need to be exposed for their downright evil. I don't believe in the devil but I believe that people can be the embodiment of evil, and it seems that there has been at least one case here where one of these men was found and had his hand slapped. Better than nothing, I suppose. The man ought to be locked up where he can discover the joys of being some big papa's bitch. God that story is sad, and I admire that girl for sticking up for her sister, making the "Family"--my ass--do what she wanted.
I have to say, they intimidate me. Maybe not now, but I'm afraid that all that man worship and "fear of the lord" that I have ridden myself of might be a "sleeper" that would suddenly trigger and freeze me if I was face to face with intimidation from my past. Maybe not.
I guess this whole thing is much bigger than me. It's about avenging the little ones that may not have been killed back then, but were so abused and fucked up that they eventually committed suicide to find peace. It's not about how I feel now, after the years have numbed the wrongdoing--it's about how I felt the moment I was old enough to realize that I had been violated.
I still have family in the Group. I don't want them to be the ones that feel the brunt of someone else’s evil. Sadly, no matter how we try to look at it, every loyal member of the Group will feel it when the shit hits the fan. They will be made to feel it's somehow their fault that "the Lord is chastising" them by allowing "persecution". The Family is full of people like my parents, which did not abuse children, and would have been very angry if they had known what was going on. They may be blind to some things, they might have made the wrong decisions in their day, but they don't deserve to be punished for something that they didn't realize was hurting their kids. Yes, they knew about the doctrines--the fact that sex with children came under the "all things lawful"--but they had enough sense to never do such a thing and, like I said, if they had known people were actually practising it, they would have given their right arm to see those people excommunicated. At least in my parents' case I believe this to be true. I have talked with them and told them everything and they have been honest with me. And I don't think they're the only ones.
And we have to remember that they have all been under the same "spell" as we were. They're accountable, yes, but not punishable. You don't think straight. We can't hate them for inadvertently allowing someone else to take a hold of their brain and run their life. If they ever wake up from the dream, as we did, they'll be hopping mad and have complaints of their own. Call me soft, but I can't help but feel for them and I don't want them--all the well-meaning people--to have their children taken away or even to have to do 50 worldwide "attack days" to raise the money we'll be suing them for.
We may say that this isn't about the Group, it's about the individuals. But we all know that it will be about the Group. As Jules pointed out, if we all go after the individuals with a winning case, maybe the group will see that they are in a losing game and leave those miscreant members to defend themselves, saying they have "no affiliation" with them. And that would be acceptable. The bad guys get it and that's all. But what about the people that abused us as kids, then changed and had families of their own. If they have been good to their own children, which is not probable but possible, what of their kids? And just how many of these weirdos are actually still in the group? It is my understanding that most of the real bad ones have been out for some time. I can think of one or two that are still in but they didn't actually harm children, although they fondled and touched, etc. Isn't there a difference? There is just so much gray in this whole case that I hardly care to get involved.
But after reading this story, I'm having second thoughts.
I would appreciate to hear from other individuals that have had similar horrific experiences. Make it nameless if you like. But I need to know that people were actually hurt and not just mildly molested to feel that this is actually worth fighting for. Bad is one thing. Evil is another.
(reply to this comment)
| From Lauren
Sunday, April 21, 2002, 08:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
Sunny, I very much agree with you and the points that you raised. While I was in the Family I personally didn’t suffer immensely, I had good parents and although I had some rough times & things that others would consider “abusive” happen to me, I am not scarred for life. I’ve always had the premise that nobody has a perfect life and at least I wasn’t born trailer trash. I am very happy with my current lot in life, my husband, my family and I have no “what ifs”. Had any little detail of my past been altered, who knows what my present would be like. But I have brothers and sisters who weren’t so lucky. Some of my family have had to really struggle since leaving and the tales they have to tell of their time in the group are unnerving. They are NOT at all happy with the zillions of obstacles they’ve had to overcome since leaving (and even while in) and they have a lot of “what ifs” to deal with.
I do very much understand the trauma that some people go through when they leave (not to mention stay) and I know that these are real, not just exaggerated “complaints” from people who like to grumble or pass blame on everyone but themselves. I would very much like to see some kind of reform forced on the family doctrines – particularly to make it easier for young people who want to leave to integrate into society. But I have my doubts as to the affectivity of class action suit. Suing the Family would only result in more innocent children being taken away from innocent parents (and perhaps some guilty ones, but by far, more innocent ones) & I could never stand by and watch that happen. As much as I disagree with the way things are in the Family, I disagree even more with children being taken away from the parents and I would go so far as to testify on the Family’s behalf to keep that from happening.
The way I see things structured in the Family these days, there is very little to almost no sexual abuse of children. Things have changed drastically even since the time of Kirsti’s situation (I was a CRO secretary for a good number of years and I was aware of that situation from the other side of the fence). Proving the other kind of abuses (mental, emotional, educational) is very tricky – especially getting it pinned on the proper people.
I don’t know what the solution is. There has got to be one. Maybe a class action would do the trick. But whatever is done, I certainly hope that those involved will take the ultimate well being of the children into consideration and not, as someone else on this site aptly put it, “burn the building to save the children”.
Personally, I believe (and maybe I’m mistaken in this) that the real issues that people have, are not with the Family as an entity, but with leadership and policy makers at the top. For those who want to go for blood, I suggest going for theirs. Hitting the top is probably the closest thing anyone will ever gain to victory. Even if you lose, you still win.
One of the most interesting, insightful and helpful things I have read since leaving, which has helped me verbalize a lot of the frustrations I have felt with the Family came from Lord Justice Ward’s judgment on the Family (the British Pearl and Sammy case). To see an outsider try so hard to be objective and yet so brilliantly hit the nail on the head time after time with exactly went wrong and what specific attitudes were causing certain results in family individuals, was almost theraputic.(reply to this comment) |
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