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EyesWideShut - Wednesday, June 02, 2004

I can't think of a reason why this girl would be a fake. That said, I think she sounds like your average American Christian girl and I feel for her. It's difficult for my husband understanding me sometimes, and he's an exmember who knows where I came from. Just the other night, were were watching TV--some documentary about sexual abuse--and when it was over we rolled over. He wanted to cuddle but I couldn't let him touch me. No matter how hard I tried to rid my mind of the awful memories, I relived something through the images on that screen, and wasn't better until morning. He accepted it but was hurt and couldn't understand that it had nothing to do with him.

Someone mentioned that it's rare for exmember males to have the same qualms with their past as us females do, but I have meet a fair few who are equally as fucked up as some of the most damaged females I know. I know one who's mother used to come home from FFing, and having not "gotten off" she's visit him in his bed nightly to finish the job. He's never going to get over that and I doubt any woman will be able to handle the odd young man he has become, as sweet as he is.

Some guys were terribly abused with harsh dicipline, and we were all beaten down in the same ways every day.

As for fond memories of our past, we all have them. Some more than others. And sometimes the comfort of familiarity can be confused with happiness. All non-members would better understand us if they realized we are in completely unfamiliar territory every day. Moving back to the US is new, and all its culture, or lack thereof. I'm not going to list everything now because I have to get to work, but you know what I'm talking about.

Sexually our aftershocks range from completely detached to very clingy, and sometimes both in the same hour. Most of us will settle down with one person, or have, but will always have promiscuity in our make up, miss it, and will have to fight it as long as we live if we hope to hold on to our relationships.

I wish you well with your dilemma. If you love him, don't give up. He may yet come around, or you may be able to learn to live with his rough edges. Ignore the parents. That's the first thing you learn. There is no sense to be made there and they will grieve you. There is no overnight remedy for a cult baby. His world is upside down, his landmarks are crushed, he's lost. Even love can't fix this one, sweety. Give it time, if you have it to spare.

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I dont' want to be named - Wednesday, June 02, 2004

I can appreciate that as a male, the likelihood of being physically sexually abused was much lower (I personally was never abused in this way); nonetheless, the things that I was witness to have screwed me up pretty badly. I can't get over the fact that I subconsciously associate sex with deviance, something ugly or dirty. This has created relationship problems that you might be able to imagine. I can't have sex without feeling like shit afterwards. I'm often extremely irascible or angry after having sex, and often during sex I can't get off without behaving in an inconsiderate, aggressive or just plain nasty manner. This seriously freaks me out, and for the most part trying to avoid this leaves both parties unsatisfied. I don't want to behave like this, so I've started to avoid it altogether. This make it impossible to get anywhere with a relationship, and women usually just get frustrated with me when they realise I'm reluctant to have sex. They think it's something to do with them; needless to say, I haven't had much success keeping down a relationship. My life and character is already abnormally masochistic- I tend to be sporadically self-destrucive when I'm intoxicated, and my friends get pretty freaked out sometimes with my behaviour. I've placed myself in violent and dangerous positions a couple of times; friends have commented that they thought I wasn't afraid of seriously hurting myself; I've come to think it's more about me just wanting to hurt myself.

But getting beaten up because you take on an insurmountable opponent isn't as serious as allowing a relationship that you value to go south because you show sado-masochist traits in relation to your sex-life.even if I could find a partner who doesn't mind my destructive streak, how the fuck am I supposed to get past that horrible feeling I'm left with after sex? I can't talk to other men about this, they wouldn't get it; they'd think I was fucking abnormal, and WTF I am! Conselling is about the best way to waste money and time I've ever experienced.

I guess you can understand why I'm posting anonymously. I don't want to demean those whose abuse exceeded my own, but I'm stuck with the feeling that I'm either gonna hurt someone else, myself, or be alone for the rest of my life. If you met me you probably wouldn't guess I had this problem, and I've never really talked about this to anyone.

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- Wednesday, June 02, 2004

My husband's mother used to do stuff to him too...sexually. Believe it.

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- Wednesday, May 26, 2004

Yes, I think it could be an interesting discussion. I honestly don’t know if my past affects my sexual choices and preferences today. I think I would be mortified to find out they did. I know that my past, my childhood, and my experiences are all part of who I am today, and I also know that my choices today can change who my past made me. But I guess I always wanted to think my sexual past did not affect my present. I hope this is the truth. I really, really hope that it is possible that we as humans can actually close up parts of our past to the point that it does not taint today.


See, I had a bad sexual past. All of my first sexual experiences were with fucking creepy perverted adults, including my father. I spent 5 years feeling dirty and ashamed and confused and a whole list of other emotions that I don’t know I could ever find adjectives for. That was my introduction to sex, and it was everywhere.


But I’ll never forget my first experience with a boy my age. Granted, we were a little young for a first experience, but that was how it was in the cult. We were in love, and so it was actually a very sweet and gentle and respectful and mutual experience, and totally unlike anything I’d ever known about sex before. It really was like my first time. And I remember feeling like something opened up in me; it was like suddenly there were two different things. I remember the separation of them in my mind, and I thought, “so this is what sex is.” What was interesting is that after this relationship with this boy, I was finally able to fight back whenever any depraved uncles would come lurking. Maybe it was growing older too, but after that, even though many still tried, a few even violently, I always made it out relatively unharmed, at least sexually.


After that, or because of that—I don’t know—I don’t remember having a problem with sex, or enjoying it. With my peers, of course. I think that I still have a fairly healthy sexual life, at least one that I am happy with. I think I’m fairly active for a girl, but I’m not a nympho. I can be the aggressor when I’m in the mood for it, and I’m willing to try new things, even some that might be considered “kinky.” I like playing games, taking a long time, or taking a short time. I’m also confident to say no when I want to, and I don’t feel pressured to do something I don’t want to or am not in the mood for. I’m not into any extreme fetishes—like peeing or dressing as a baby or whatever—but I’m not so prudish that I won’t watch porn or try things out. I am also strictly monogamous, and I love my partner very much. Never did a threesome or anything like that. That’s not to say I wouldn’t. I guess it depends on the situation and if I felt right about it, and right about my partner(s).

So, after all that—am I healthy? Am I normal? Is my sexuality affected by my cultish past? I want to say no, but then, how does one know? What would be the “red flags” that shows I get my sexual preferences from a warped sexual past?


Actually, because I am happy with my sex life and I don’t feel like I have problems with it, I don’t think about it at all, especially not how it would relate to my past. The reason is because I know that my self esteem and confidence and other attitudes in my life ARE very affected by the rapes and incest in my past. It’s a struggle every day to not see myself as damaged, broken, or not whole. It affects the way I interact and react to people, and what I feel I can do in life. It gives me a lot of fear and insecurity. I find it almost impossible to trust. The list goes on. But I think I have separated my sexual life from this, and I look at these experiences in a totally different category. It’s kind of like I feel that the assaults and rapes and trauma were directed at me, at my soul, and not at my sex. Does that make sense? Almost as if it were not sexual in nature, because I felt so much more damaged in my spirit, as if it was my innocence, my trust, my self-awareness, even my hope that was assaulted more than my body. Maybe that’s what it is for me. I really don’t know.

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frmrjoyish - Wednesday, May 26, 2004

Chris Mountain is a horrible perverted prick! I knew him almost my whole life. I found out as a young teenager that he had spread a disgusting (and very false) rumor that I, AS A 5 YR OLD CHILD, had made sexual advances towards him. Evidently, the stupid pervert was laughing and bragging about it! Imagine my horror when several of my longtime friends recounted what he had told a group of my peers in a devotions or something! I was mortified! Not to mention those mornings when a bunch of us teenagers had to sleep in his room and wake up to him and that fat-ass having sex. Wasn't her name Becky or something like that?

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sweetchick - Monday, April 12, 2004

Go to Hell Tobi! Who the fuck do you think you are? You're so full of shit, it's pathetic!! I personally knew Cherish and everything she is saying is true and not the least bit exagerated. I lived in Brazil, Peru and Mexico around the same time she did. So I know exactly what she is talking about. Juan used to grab us by the titts and butt all the time. The first time I saw him naked was when I lived at the teen home in Niteroi. He completely stripped all his clothes off and took a dip in the pool. K. had big breats for a girl her age (12 year old) and he was always coming up from behind and grabbing them. M & C were 14 and 15 at the time and were constantly "sharing with the shepherds or Musicians. It was considered an honor to fuck "Singing Sam" (nasty fat ass) or any of the top leaders at the time. Some of these girls live really fucked up lives now.

In TF, excomunication is used for any crime or breaking of the rules. If you rape a child or drink more than your weekly quota, the punishment is the same. Can u imagine? Abusing a child is an offense equal to drinking 3 beers instead of 2, "murmuring, "doubting" or not believing that Berg is God's "Endtime Prophet"! That is how they value the lives of their children.

TF's interpretation of "moving on" is to forget the past and pretend it never happened! Well fuck that! It did! It is not behind us and may never be! Maybe you don't thing TF is so bad and maybe you have so many pleasant memories is because YOU are one of those nasty, child abusing, mother-fuckers who liked having 8 and 9 year old girls sucking your cock for breakfast!

You must not have experienced the same type of abuse and mistreatment that we did, or you wouldn't be yelling "move on"!

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one reply - Monday, April 05, 2004

Hi, Dina. I am an American female several years older than you who also grew up in the Family. I ran away from The Family in 1991 in a third world country where I was still a minor. I did not have a safe place to go and until I managed to find and contact relatives in the USA and later was finally allowed to come to the USA I had a very bad time trying to stay alive while not being found by The Family.

You asked if anyone else here was ever sexually abused while in the Family.

Yes, I was sexually abused while in The Family. I have differing answers to the last two parts of your question -- "if so how did you get over it and move on with your life?". While I honestly have not gotten over having been sexually abused, I have "moved on with my life" in many ways. When I left I focused on trying to prove wrong the adults in The Family who had told me that I could never make it in the outside world and I have managed to get a great education and a great job. I have even learned how to make friends and acquaintances (and what is more complicated, how to tell which is which and not give the mere acquaintances a full OHR about my life ending with "so will you still accept me?").

What I have not yet learned is how to relate to the opposite sex. On top of having been severely sexually abused as a child and preadolescent in The Family, when I got out and I told my story The Family called me a lying slut, including a spokesperson who had a direct role in my being raped repeatedly and who at the time was my guardian. For me that compounded how painful the subject is and the difficulty to sort it out and deactivate whatever mechanisms that keep me as though imprisoned in the cage of a body and mind that are maimed as far as sexuality goes.

You write "If you have any experience with this or have any helpful advice at all, I need it."

I wish I had helpful advice to give. I feel I have found out how to survive myself but I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all matter. I have been in therapy for a long time and it has helped me with a number of things, and I even know rationally that I do not need to punish myself for what was done to me by staying unable to relate to guys.

But so far I have been unable to act as though that were true. I still feel I am a very ugly duckling in that sense. The more encompassing feeling of rejection was reinforced after the abuse by my being considered a "problem case" as a teenager in The Family because of my questions and lack of the proper attitude. I have been able to unlock so many of the other manacles I brought with me from my upbringing, but this has been a sticking point for me, maybe largely because wanting to be OK in that area of my life is not something that I can justify to myself in any way other than "I think it would be nice to love (romantically) and be requited" or "I would like to know the sense of belonging in a (salubrious) relationship." And I still struggle with feelings, however stupid I may know them to be or how strange they are likely to sound to someone who grew up without "One Wife," "The Girl Who Wouldn't" and "The Law of Love," that that is a "selfish" wish for something I don't "need." So I feel like I need to act very asexual around guys because who knows what one of them might try and I could be helpless (in reality, I now know so much more about how to defend myself, but the old childhood feelings of not being able to avoid unwanted things dies hard). Then if I am interested in a guy, I think that I am undeserving and not allowed to aspire to be deserving (my sheperds' voices ring in my head -- how dare you!) so I generally stay away.

I guess the bottom line of how I carry on is that even though it still returns to haunt me too, I have enough interests and friends filling my life in other ways. Moving on for me has meant that the balance of good days and hours is getting larger compared to the frightening times, and when the latter come, I remember the OK feelings and tell myself they will come again. I overall have a life I am very happy with, especially if I count all the things I look forward to doing when they are practical. I have identified things I enjoy and care about in life and I have good friends who see things from a perspective that is more like what larger society thinks about child abuse than what The Family thinks. Some are exers, some not. The non-exers know me and like me as like-minded equals as far as education and achievement are concerned, but they are also sympathetic and supportive about my "scars" when I need it and will point out to me how amazing it is that I have gotten this far and manage to go on.

Another thing that has changed living with the memories and what I thought I could or couldn't look forward to is this website. The vast majority of the exer friends that I do have, I met through this website. I have found out I am not alone. And I will never be alone again! I have realized that others have been through the same, and sometimes worse. They know that I am telling the truth. I have received so much support from the bonds this website has given me the opportunity to create.

Regarding your statement "As much as I’ve tried I can’t forget it, nor can I forgive, so what’s next?" there have been some excellent articles on this site on the subject of forgiveness and the relevance of the perpatrator's behaviour, including this one one from Lauren:

http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=8&Cat=33&ID=1756

and this one from Nancy:

http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=1823

For myself, I can't forget either, even though I have tried to drown the memories and pain and sorrow with things like food or alcohol until I was just causing myself more hurt with those maladaptive methods of coping. But when doing something like digging into an assignment at work or reading a book that captivates me or watching TV or a performance of my favorite artists, or hanging out with my friends and generally engaging in living a life where my choices count, I can turn my attention away from the bad memories (except for occasional intrusions of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that I can't seem to help) and I can be quite OK, often for quite a while.

Finally, from my perspective, forgiveness is an entirely hypothetical question, and it will continue to be a moot point until the people involved changed their tune radically and expressed regret. They would have to admit in concrete truthful terms, not "we're sorry if a butterfly flapped a wing in the rainforest and you feel slighted because you are too sensitive" but more like "I did this and this to you when I was supposed to be your caretaker and I lied about it to try to discredit you." As far as they have made me aware, they think they did nothing wrong, and even if they did, it doesn't matter because they did it to me and I don't matter. All that matters is that The Family continue to exist and not be questioned, and all of the human carnage they leave in their wake should be ignored because what they are doing is so important (and what was that they accomplish again?). Zerby and other bigwigs who were responsible for the upbringing I received at the hands of their obedient followers are wrong to think that since they're the "Queen of Heaven" or whatever they don't owe amends to no-account throwaway me -- and to each of us they harmed.

I know other people who visit this site who I'm sure will give you much better answers, but that's my super-sized comment of the day for you. Good to have you on this site.

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SEC.GENERATION - Friday, February 20, 2004

ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED ALL THE TIME IN A LOT OF HOMES. WE WERE NEVER TAUGHT TO THINK ANYTHING OF THEM AS ANYTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY. THAT COMMENT ON PETER BROUGHT BACK SO MANY MEMORIES I REALLY COULDNT FINISH READING IT. WHAT CONFUSES ME THE MOST IS, WHERE WERE OUR PARENTS THROUGH THIS?? WHAT COULD POSSIBLY MAKE A PARENT STAND BY IDLE WHILE THEIR CHILDREN ARE BEING SPANKED, FORCED TO DO HARD LABOR, GETTING THEIR MOUTH WASHED WITH SOAP, GROUP SPANKINGS, AND IN THE HOME I WAS IN, THEY DIDNT GIVE THE SPANKINGS RIGHT AWAY........ NO, NO, THEY WOULD WRITE IT IN A LITTLE BOOK AND YOU WERE TOLD YOU WOULD GET THE SPANKING WHEN THE HOMES OFFICIAL SPANKER GOT AROUND TO IT..... SO YOU WOULD WAIT DAYS WITH THE THOUGHT THAT ANY MOMENT YOU WOULD BE GETTING A SPANKING ON BARE BUT WITH A WOODEN PADDLE....... FUCKING SICKOS!!!!!!!! WE WERE JUST LITTLE KIDS, HALF THE STUFF WE DID, WE DIDNT EVEN UNDERSTAND!!!!

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solver123 - Wednesday, February 18, 2004

His real name is Joseph Vincent and he didnt just force himself on young girls, he is a pedophile. Don't give him the benefit of the doubt, he is a predator of little girls and boys. He is now 25 yrs old and lives on the Gold Coast in Australia with a swedish girl who lets him still get away with it. Apparently his wife left him when she found out....his mother is Linda Moore, Father (not blood father) Henry Vincent. His younger half brother (Peter)is just as bad and has a list of victims as well including his very own little sister (half sister). Joseph works at Samsara Furniture and Homewares in Mudgeeraba. Beware. will put more info on site as I find out.

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trader - Saturday, February 14, 2004

The creep i wish to expose is jason/joseph. Russia< moscow petersburg chelyabinsk 97/98/99 england london etc 97/98/99 he travelled from home to home forcing himself on any of the young underage girls.For a man of only 19 to 20 years he was really twisted.The little ones were sometimes as young as 10years old that he tried to coerce into doing him sexual favours.I was there i am still disgusted to this day as he came across as a really nice guy i considered him a friend how wrong i was. I have just found he now lives in australia with mother (peace aka linda) i will help if any one wants to bring him to justice i know what he has done.